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  #1  
Old September 17th, 2020, 07:15 AM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
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Default Swimming speeds

US duplex tanks have a swim speed of 2 and British duplex tanks have a swim speed of 4. British seem to be in error.
German schwimwagen should be swim speed of 3 or 4 depending on source, not 2.
Encyclopedia of weapons of ww2 by Chris Bishop gives the Japanese unit 15 type 2 ka mi 9.65 kph in water or 3, game has 4.
It also gives weasel 6.4 kph in water so 2, game has 4.

http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/index.html
Gives these speeds for LVTs in kph. The land and water hex speeds are at the end of the line.

LVT 1 road 19 swim 9.8 6 3
LVT 2 road 30 swim 12 10 4
LVT 3 road 27 swim 10 9 3
LVT 4 road 30 swim 12 10 4
LVT 5 road 48 swim 11 16 3
Most game LVTs have these speeds but a few don't. they are,

USMC OOB , I assumed round down
Units 21, 23, and 423 all LVT 1s have 16 4 should be 6 3.
Units 111, 299, 300 and 378 all LVT 1s have 7 3 should be 6 3.
Units 16, 17, 243, 288, 379 and 382 all LVT 2s have 11 4 should be 10 4.
Units 19, 22, 114, 206 and 210 all LVT 4s have 11 4 should be 10 4.
Unit 207 LVT 5 has 12 4 should be 16 3.

USA OOB
Units 552 and 553 both LVT 1s have 7 3 should be 6 3.
Unit 555 a LVT 2 have 11 4 should be 10 4.
Units 29 and 720 both LVT 4s have 11 4 should be 10 4.
Im not sure US army actually used LVTs even when serving in the pacific.

British OOB
Unit 710 Buffalo II/LVT 2 has 11 4 should be 10 4.
Units 58, 306, 318 Buffalo IV/LVT 4s has 11 4 should be 10 4.
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Old September 17th, 2020, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: Swimming speeds

I have made a note to review this
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Old September 17th, 2020, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: Swimming speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
............. I assumed round down
You could assume that but you would only apply to a speed that converts under .5

a speed in km/h that converts to game speed .4 and under is rounded down so something that might have a top speed of 34 km/h would convert to 11.33 so would be 11 in game and and any thing that converts to over .5 would be 12 like 35 km/h would for example. ( 11.66 conversion )

This is stated obliqly in MOBHack help

Quote:
Fighter-bomber and level bomber Aircraft Speed: 1 pt of Speed for every 100 km/h (round up past 50)
but the "past 50" or .5 applies to all speeds and where "problems" occur is when someone finds a report that says Vehicle X had a top speed of 34 km/h in one source and it's reported as being 35 km/h in another


DO KEEP IN MIND that if you search long enough you will always find conflicting numbers listed in print and online
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Old September 19th, 2020, 01:35 AM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
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Default Re: Swimming speeds

Yes, I am aware of varying sources, You might be amazed to hear this, but I am actually not posting some of the stuff I find as Yes I agree some of it doesn't make a lot of difference and I know I am an annoyance. But I gave the 1 hex or so differences here as several of the units mentioned are not the same in different OOBs and those numbers I supplied might be relevant if you wanted to make them the same accross OOBs.

I suggested rounding down because it makes units a bit slower so it sort of gives more shots at them for a given distance so moving the ROF/distance discrepancy a little bit in the right direction.

But I can't help but point out that you can virtually eliminate the ROF/movement discrepancy by making the hexes 25m size.

This doubles the number of shots any unit has against a travelling target for a given distance, but the number of shots for the shooter remains the same -per turn-

To make the map hexes 25m pretty much -all- you need to do is double all the ranges. Everything else can be left pretty much the same and the game plays just fine.

The game turns would be half the length they were and ROF is effectively doubled. So now game ROF is much closer to real values.

The units themselves are now much better matched to the map scale.

The game plays exactly the same mechanically. If a sniper gets about 3 hits at 3 hexes he will now get three hits at 6 hexes. I've doubled all the ranges in Mobhack to test and I can guarantee the game plays and feels way better. Besides the work involved its an absolute winner. Of course I'm willing to do any hack work that might be required.
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Old September 19th, 2020, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Swimming speeds

The game hex size is not going to change and we are not going to double all the ranges.

If you are happy with the changes you made to the OOBs with MOBHack that's good for you and it's why we include MOBHack with the game for players to mod with and if you think it plays better from your POV then that again shows why we included MOBHack with the game so you could and even if we agreed 100% with your idea ( we don't ) there is still the issue of the 1300+ scenarios in both games that would still use the 50m distance so the official OOB's are not going to be changed but feel free to redo all the OOB's your way then issue a mod set in the MOD's section and anyone who's curious can give them a try.

And Yes, I did check all the LVT's in all the OOB's you didn't mention that use them
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Old September 19th, 2020, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Swimming speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Yes, I am aware of varying sources, You might be amazed to hear this, but I am actually not posting some of the stuff I find as Yes I agree some of it doesn't make a lot of difference and I know I am an annoyance. But I gave the 1 hex or so differences here as several of the units mentioned are not the same in different OOBs and those numbers I supplied might be relevant if you wanted to make them the same accross OOBs.

I suggested rounding down because it makes units a bit slower so it sort of gives more shots at them for a given distance so moving the ROF/distance discrepancy a little bit in the right direction.

But I can't help but point out that you can virtually eliminate the ROF/movement discrepancy by making the hexes 25m size.

This doubles the number of shots any unit has against a travelling target for a given distance, but the number of shots for the shooter remains the same -per turn-

To make the map hexes 25m pretty much -all- you need to do is double all the ranges. Everything else can be left pretty much the same and the game plays just fine.

The game turns would be half the length they were and ROF is effectively doubled. So now game ROF is much closer to real values.

The units themselves are now much better matched to the map scale.

The game plays exactly the same mechanically. If a sniper gets about 3 hits at 3 hexes he will now get three hits at 6 hexes. I've doubled all the ranges in Mobhack to test and I can guarantee the game plays and feels way better. Besides the work involved its an absolute winner. Of course I'm willing to do any hack work that might be required.
I would say NO! That would require every weapon, every unit, every scenario to be redone. And I believe there is a code limit of 255 to weapon range.

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Old September 19th, 2020, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Swimming speeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by troopie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik View Post
Yes, I am aware of varying sources, You might be amazed to hear this, but I am actually not posting some of the stuff I find as Yes I agree some of it doesn't make a lot of difference and I know I am an annoyance. But I gave the 1 hex or so differences here as several of the units mentioned are not the same in different OOBs and those numbers I supplied might be relevant if you wanted to make them the same accross OOBs.

I suggested rounding down because it makes units a bit slower so it sort of gives more shots at them for a given distance so moving the ROF/distance discrepancy a little bit in the right direction.

But I can't help but point out that you can virtually eliminate the ROF/movement discrepancy by making the hexes 25m size.

This doubles the number of shots any unit has against a travelling target for a given distance, but the number of shots for the shooter remains the same -per turn-

To make the map hexes 25m pretty much -all- you need to do is double all the ranges. Everything else can be left pretty much the same and the game plays just fine.

The game turns would be half the length they were and ROF is effectively doubled. So now game ROF is much closer to real values.

The units themselves are now much better matched to the map scale.

The game plays exactly the same mechanically. If a sniper gets about 3 hits at 3 hexes he will now get three hits at 6 hexes. I've doubled all the ranges in Mobhack to test and I can guarantee the game plays and feels way better. Besides the work involved its an absolute winner. Of course I'm willing to do any hack work that might be required.
I would say NO! That would require every weapon, every unit, every scenario to be redone. And I believe there is a code limit of 255 to weapon range.

troopie
Most things are limited by being bytes - so gun range is limited to 255 being 1 byte only. Plus, the game uses ranges of 200 and up as special case ranges for artillery units, so simply going off into the 200s with his own edits will likely cause mucho borkage if he tried some modded OOBs that did so.

Most of this guys desires would need totally recoding a new game from the ground up, for little to no practical benefit. Some of what he wants, he might be able to do in Mobhack - if he wants OOBs that then do not work with the scenarios (including all the cenarios packaged in user campaigns) unless he redid these himself to match his new OOBS.

He has been advised before that he has the tools to do his own thing, if he so desires. Yet he still posts fantasy novels of what he wold like us to do just for him. The lack of any others joining in a discussion as to the relative benefits of his grand ideas does not seem to put him off.

If he wants his new ideas OOBs then he is free to add his custom OOB set to the mods forum. he has been told several times that is what he should do, rather than expect us to recode the game for his individual outlook. Still no sign of these however...
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