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  #1  
Old May 4th, 2010, 01:43 PM
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Default Trouble with "asymmetrical" generated campaign

4/2012, obat44 (W.Germay) vs Mujahedeen/Mujahedeen/Afghanistan

player pts. : 65000
AI pts: 100

Bought troops for ~6.5k points
Cross-attached several units
Saved the game, quit.

Opened the save in the editor:
- deleted several superflous remnants of units (subunits where crossattached)
- set the turn number to "3"
- Noticed: the AI had bought troops for full 6.5K points as well!
=> deleted most of the AI troops

Loaded the modified savegame, played to turn 3.
Saved, exited SPMBT.

Restarted SPMBT
Set point-pref to XXXXX vs. 650.
Reloaded save.
On the refit screen, expanded the core (2 empty formations slots "I" and "J" where "refilled" - interestingly, "I" and "J" now showed up as the bought scout sec, and as the HQ sections on the following companies. During battle, everything was ok again?!)
Changed the lead units of the scouts to snipers.

At the start of the next battle, crossattached the new scout secs to the scout formation - let the snipers go on their own.

Loaded the save into the editor to find that the AI again
has bought for full 6.5k points (= "XXXXX" option) !!!

=>

The campaign generator seems to default to "XXX" option when player 2 points are set to "100" manually.
Is this a bug?

The campaign generator seems to ignore preference changes between battles?!
This is very unfortunate, because it makes setting up "asymmetrical warfare" campaigns impossible:
If I use the "XXX" setting, the "guerilla" side will get too many of their cheap inf troops.
If I use some fixed value, I don't get any difference between attack/meeting/defense.

Interestingly enough, the game
a) gives a message window what the next mission will be and
b) allows access to the preferences during refit

Now, if the changed values would be evaluated, I could e.g. dial down the AIs build pts to "500" for defend, and up to "1500" for attack missions (theirs, not mine).

Another way to do asymmetrical warfare, like some "guerilla forces" button, which would set the AI buy points to 25% or something, plus +/-50% modifier for missions, wouldn't be feasable, I guess?!

EDIT: OH MAN, SILLY ME! Wouldn't the ini option thingy work in this case?
Does it keep the mission-dependant additional modifier?!?
Must test .... INI works - but what about the mission-dependant modifiers to buy points?



I'm attaching the latest savegame, in case it's just a screw-up in the save and you can somehow fix the AI buy point thingy ...
Attached Files
File Type: 7z Saved Game 30.7z (85.1 KB, 180 views)

Last edited by Arralen; May 4th, 2010 at 03:09 PM..
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  #2  
Old May 4th, 2010, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with "asymmetrical" generated campaign

Thats how its supposed to work pretty sure it says so in the GG, the only pref you can change is I think map size everything else is locked down.
If you want the AI to have diffrent points allocation to you adjust the file theres a thread somewhere, applies for the entire campaign.
If you want varied forces build it & play as a user campaign, better still get a freind to build your opponent & you do his.
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  #3  
Old May 4th, 2010, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with "asymmetrical" generated campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arralen View Post
4/2012, obat44 (W.Germay) vs Mujahedeen/Mujahedeen/Afghanistan

player pts. : 65000
AI pts: 100

Bought troops for ~6.5k points
Cross-attached several units
Saved the game, quit.

Opened the save in the editor:
- deleted several superflous remnants of units (subunits where crossattached)
- set the turn number to "3"
- Noticed: the AI had bought troops for full 6.5K points as well!
=> deleted most of the AI troops

Loaded the modified savegame, played to turn 3.
Saved, exited SPMBT.

Restarted SPMBT
Set point-pref to XXXXX vs. 650.
Reloaded save.
On the refit screen, expanded the core (2 empty formations slots "I" and "J" where "refilled" - interestingly, "I" and "J" now showed up as the bought scout sec, and as the HQ sections on the following companies. During battle, everything was ok again?!)
Changed the lead units of the scouts to snipers.

At the start of the next battle, crossattached the new scout secs to the scout formation - let the snipers go on their own.

Loaded the save into the editor to find that the AI again
has bought for full 6.5k points (= "XXXXX" option) !!!

=>

The campaign generator seems to default to "XXX" option when player 2 points are set to "100" manually.
Is this a bug?

The campaign generator seems to ignore preference changes between battles?!
This is very unfortunate, because it makes setting up "asymmetrical warfare" campaigns impossible:
If I use the "XXX" setting, the "guerilla" side will get too many of their cheap inf troops.
If I use some fixed value, I don't get any difference between attack/meeting/defense.

Interestingly enough, the game
a) gives a message window what the next mission will be and
b) allows access to the preferences during refit

Now, if the changed values would be evaluated, I could e.g. dial down the AIs build pts to "500" for defend, and up to "1500" for attack missions (theirs, not mine).

Another way to do asymmetrical warfare, like some "guerilla forces" button, which would set the AI buy points to 25% or something, plus +/-50% modifier for missions, wouldn't be feasable, I guess?!

EDIT: OH MAN, SILLY ME! Wouldn't the ini option thingy work in this case?
Does it keep the mission-dependant additional modifier?!?
Must test .... INI works - but what about the mission-dependant modifiers to buy points?



I'm attaching the latest savegame, in case it's just a screw-up in the save and you can somehow fix the AI buy point thingy ...
Honestly dont know what you are trying to do with this faffing about. No bugs whatsoever - the campaign system is for fair balance of points by battle type. What your force is worth, determines what it buys. If you spent 65K points, then the enemy would try its best to do so too (though it cannot, of course since it uses a balanced buy which includes cheaper infantry etc).

If you really want to try adjusting the enemy AI force ratio in a campaign, then try modifying the AIAdjustPercent variable in the INI file.
See the Game Guide -> "Playing a Campaign" -> Special box on AIAdjustpercent, and also see the note in the "Release History" section, bullet 26 for Version 4.5.

Andy
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  #4  
Old May 4th, 2010, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Trouble with "asymmetrical" generated campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arralen View Post
4/2012, obat44 (W.Germay) vs Mujahedeen/Mujahedeen/Afghanistan

player pts. : 65000
AI pts: 100

Bought troops for ~6.5k points

*snip*

- Noticed: the AI had bought troops for full 6.5K points as well!

*snip*

Loaded the save into the editor to find that the AI again
has bought for full 6.5k points (= "XXXXX" option) !!!
Honestly dont know what you are trying to do with this faffing about. No bugs whatsoever - the campaign system is for fair balance of points by battle type. What your force is worth, determines what it buys. If you spent 65K points, then the enemy would try its best to do so too ...
So you tell me the generator happily ignoring the preference settings is ok ?!

Quote:
If you really want to try adjusting the enemy AI force ratio in a campaign, then try modifying the AIAdjustPercent variable in the INI file.
So much I figured.
But will this still keep the mission-dependant build points modifiers the manual mentions under "Playing a one off battle - battle type table" - or do those not apply in the campaign? I was always under the impression that they do, but maybe I'm wrong?

And all that faffing about is because a less-than-ideal OOB, and the fact that I noticed the generator spend XXXXX build points instead of 100 ... after I spend several hours buying, reassigning and deleting units to get something sensible out of this OOB - I really didn't feel like doing it all again, and ran into further trouble ...
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... James McGuigan on rec.games.computer.stars somewhen back in 1998 ...
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  #5  
Old May 5th, 2010, 08:46 AM
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Mobhack Mobhack is online now
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Default Re: Trouble with "asymmetrical" generated campaign

Quote:
So you tell me the generator happily ignoring the preference settings is ok ?!
It is not ignoring the preference settings. The only preference setting that a generated long campaign uses is the player 1 points setting, and that only to allocate the initial core force buy limit.

From then on, the player 2 force for any battle is based on the ((player 1 core value + any support points bought) * Battle type multiplier) = NAIP.

The AiAdjustpercent IN fil variable is provided so you can change the AI ratio, so NAIP * Aiadjustpercent, e.g. if it is 1.25 then the AI will have 125% of NAIP, if it is .8 then it gets 80% of NAIP.

The only other preference settings the long campaign looks at are troop quality, troop toughness, hitting, map size, sound on or off etc. Air strikes availability is completely up to the long campaign internal code - ie the setting for number of flights is also ignored.

Asymmetrical warfare is not really covered by the SP system, other than perhaps by individual scenarios (which may have manual "victory conditions" attached in the author's text).

What you seem to want to do is perhaps better addressed by writing your own user campaign. There you will have control over the AI forces, and can happily have them having 600 points against the 65K you seem to want to play with. Since each linked battle is a scenario you have created, then you have control of the enemy forces size and placement, reinforcements etc.

Cheers
Andy
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