Ripper Beams

I just noticed something. I wanted to check all weapons using a high tech start. But when I got to ship design there were no ripper beams! I know they are there because in my game I already researched them and see them in the design screen. Why are they not present in high tech, which has everything researched ???

[Omega]

They are in fact there. You need to turn off the “only latest” option in order to see them. They are in the same weapon family as the wave motion gun. The incinerator beam is the same way.

[Lisif Deoral]

For some reasons, ripper beams (and incinirator beams) are "made obsolete" by Wave Motion Guns. Switch off "only latest" view and you'll find the rippers.

P.S.: Good timing, Omega Next time we'll have to use the same words

[This message has been edited by Lisif (edited 09 June 2001).]

Thanks. I didn't think of that. I guess it was a dumb question.

[Alpha Kodiak]

This is frustrating in AI design, since ripper beams and WMGs have significantly different characteristics, but you can't tell the AI to use ripper beams or incinerator beams on a design once you have WMGs, and conversly, you can't tell the AI to use some other long range weapon until you have WMGs researched. At least unless someone else has figured out something I haven't.

[Droplede]

Anybody played with separating ripper and incinerator beams from the WMG research chain? It seems like a good idea, given their totally different ranges and reload rates. Perhaps creating a new base research area at the same level (and total eventual cost) as rippers, that then leads to WMGs?

Of course, it's a tech mod, so massive AI rejiggering would have to ensue. So maybe it's not worth it.

[Marty Ward]

You should be able to split them up fairly easily. I think the reason they don't show up at higher levels is because they all have the same family and weapons family numbers. These numbers determine what shows up as a component when using "only latest" and which weapons the aI puts on ships.
I think if these numbers were different for each weapon you could get the AI to include all the types of weapons.

[jc173]

I think Marty hit the nail on the head. Easiest thing to do is to give incinerator beams, ripper beams, and WMG's different family and weapon numbers. That way the WMG won't automatically replace the ripper beam when the AI decides to upgrade/build new designs. This would leave the research queues intact, all you would have to do is swap weapon numbers in the AI's design creation files. I suppose if you wanted to you could even design ships with a primary armament of ripper beams backed up by one or two WMG's which might be kind of interesting. I'm about 85% sure it should work just fine.

[This message has been edited by jc173 (edited 10 June 2001).]

quote:

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Originally posted by jc173:
I suppose if you wanted to you could even design ships with a primary armament of ripper beams backed up by one or two WMG's which might be kind of interesting. I'm about 85% sure it should work just fine.

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My plans for starbases include most of the weapons space rippers plus just a couple of wmg in case a heavily armored ship engages. I have been using ppb in my previous low tech one medium planet start games. But those ended before the AI had researched phased shields. In my game with a ten good planet start the phased shields are already being researched at turn 45, and I expect peace until turn 100+. So there is no point to using ppb at all. It seems the rippers are the smallest and cheapest per unit damage, while the wmg bypassing armor is their only advantage.

Now I have another question. Do engine, weapon, and shield destroying weapons bypass shields, or do you have to beat the shields down first ? If they do not bypass shields, then the only use I see for them is precision hits when you plan on capturing the ship with boarding parties to get tech. In that case you want to be careful not to destroy the very thing you want to capture. But in my game all the tech will be researched by the time hostilities begin. So if they bypass shields I will put weapon and engine destroying weapons on my bases just in case I want to capture a hulk for retrofit/repair.

That brings up another question. Suppose you capture an enemy ship which is legendary experience. Does it remain legendary for you, or start out from scratch ? I will have enough yards to build more ships than I can afford to maintain, but if I can capture ships with high experience then boarding parties may be worth using. Otherwise not since no tech would be captured.

Edit - The WMG do NOT bypass armor, I don't know where I got the notion they did...

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 11 June 2001).]

[Marty Ward]

I don't know about bypassing the shields and armor but someone suggested a long time a go that a great use for the engine destroying weapons was to disable ships and make your opponent pay mainenance for them. As long as you can prevent a repair vessel from getting to the a huge fleet of immobile DN would cost a pretty penny and be pretty useless!