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  #1  
Old June 10th, 2001, 10:05 PM

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Default AI tech trade bug

I have found a truly wonderful marvelous amazing humdinger of a bug in the AI tech trade. I will not send an email to Malafador because they did not reply to my previous emails on other subjects. I will not post it here because I want to see how long it takes you AI hotshots to figure it out. I will give some hints.
0) It is NOT a cheat.
1) It is NOT the package with resources 200/200/200 wanted (and recieved) that I mentioned in my turn 45 report on thread TDM-Modpack politics in really big games.
2) I do NOT look at the AI tech tree file to see what they research.
3) I do NOT change the player select from computer control and examine their research report - that would be cheating.
4) I do NOT request tech "any area" for the trade because it does not work. Presumably that is to prevent fishing expeditions. Frankly I see no purpose to the option because it simply never has resulted in a trade when I first tried to use it.
5) I do NOT use a laundry list of tech areas on the wanted list because that also does not work.
6) I DO examine the race report to see what techs have been researched in the past, they provide an indication of what may be regularly scheduled.
7) I DO keep careful notes of what traded and when.
8) I DO offer more than one tech on the initial few passes.
9) If he says he cannot afford it, then I make note that something may be there.
10) If he says there is nothing of interest, then I move on to the next group.
11) If a trade goes through I make note of what was exchanged.
12) When I have a list of potential trades, I examine my list of past trades to determine what is worth the least.
13) I generally trade something of about equal value.
14) I usually trade with my Brotherly partners.
15) I trade every few turns to avoid giving too high a tech level on trades.
16) I offered a totally unreasonable tech to avoid trading him what he wanted. It Worked!

It takes a dozen passes or so to get a successful trade. Since one pass is now taking about ten minutes in my game, I am about to stop trading tech. So I do not care if the bug is fixed in the next patch. Besides my map has so many ruins on it that I can get all the remaining tech off them. Since it is such a unfair exploit you may just want to email Malafador and when a week or so has passed they can post a list of who really found the bug. You can brag here immediately of course in a race to see who finds it first. It is such an awful piece of nonsense that I cannot imagine a patch being released without fixing it if it was known......

Edit :
OOPS, I did not mention the trade on the TDM politics post! I mentioned it on the scenario post of the game at turn 45. Oh well, those who look in there for the download found it.....

[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 10 June 2001).]
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  #2  
Old June 10th, 2001, 10:51 PM
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Jubala Jubala is offline
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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

quote:
Originally posted by LCC:
It is such an awful piece of nonsense that I cannot imagine a patch being released without fixing it if it was known......


Then mail Malfador about it. Just because Aaron hasn't answered your previous mails doesn't mean he didn't read them.
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Old June 10th, 2001, 10:58 PM

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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

Richard will tell him for sure! Any reasonably intelligent person can find it in a few minutes using my hints. It IS a tech for tech swap, with nothing else in the package. I guess that should have been in my hint list too. It's a HOWLER!!

Edit : Download my turn 45 file and change the settings.txt stuff as posted in the "really big games" thread if you cannot find it using your game. One Last hint, it might be helpful for this purpose to examine the tech report of the AI player to see what he has researched.



[This message has been edited by LCC (edited 10 June 2001).]
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Old June 10th, 2001, 11:36 PM

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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

I am about to get offline to free up the phone, but if you email me and your rank is Major or above, then I will just tell you what it is in an email. An experienced player does not need to exploit the AI in this way....
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Old June 11th, 2001, 04:31 PM

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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

I thought by now somebody would have found it. Guess not many have visited, or are just not interested. I will send the bug in if nobody finds it in the next couple of days. It IS a bug, not just an unfair trade. I HOPE that I am doing unfair trades already. Certainly getting a near match on tech cost plus 200/200/200k in resources in the package is an exploit!
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Old June 11th, 2001, 04:42 PM

Nitram Draw Nitram Draw is offline
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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

You could almost consider trading tech with the AI a bug in itself You benefit much more than the AI from any trade. Better to just give them the tech.
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  #7  
Old June 11th, 2001, 05:11 PM

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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

This is my first ten planet start, and only my second against 20 races. Before now I never traded with the AI except to give a 4/3/3 resource plus treaty when first meeting. But I saw that doing tech by myself was just not going to cut it. Also though I created this map with lots of ruins I intended to take only a few for myself and let the AI get free tech off the rest. But the game progress is as follows :
Start - outnumbered 19 to 1
turn 20 outnumbered 14 to 1
turn 30 by 11 to 1
turn 45 by 5.5 to 1 and already half of MEE in score. So by the time I reach MEE at 5000k I will still be outnumbered in score by at least 3 to 1. Of that score 3400k is yard bases, not warships or production. So the actual odds are more like 10 to 1. I do not like those odds...
So I will exploit them while still learning what works. From watching the Krill fight the Ukra over my colony in Red, I can see that the AI has surely gotten smarter.....
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Old June 11th, 2001, 05:23 PM

Nitram Draw Nitram Draw is offline
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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

What I mean is that a human generally will get the better of any trade with the AI because you will use the tech immediately where as the AI may not use a tech for some time.
Also, I have never seen ALL the AI attack anyone at the same time so you will probably outnumber them locally should they decide to attack you.
Unless you have expanded rapidly in a 10 planet start you should not reach MEE for quite some time as your score % differance will be harder to acheive.
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Old June 11th, 2001, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

I seem to recall that somebody mentioned some time ago that you could fool the AI by offering them tech you didn't have and still get the tech they have. IIRC the AI wouldn't even realise it's been had and get angry. Haven't tried myself so I don't know if it works. Is this what you're talking about?
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Old June 11th, 2001, 08:26 PM

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Default Re: AI tech trade bug

I don't trade tech with the AI. It's too easy to cheat. All you have to do is offer them everything -- everything except what you don't want to give them like your colony tech or anything you've actually researched. You can ask them for whatever you think they have that will be useful. They always accept and end up with the useless starting techs and thank you for your generosity. You can do the same thing every turn.
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