Ashdod proto-guide

[MaxWilson]

The idea of "spamming" a 25-pearl spell boggles the mind. I'd much rather spend those pearls on thugging out commanders or summoning Ophanim. Maybe it's just me--I know some people love Acashic Record.

-Max

[Kristoffer O]

Opinions on the Ophanim?

I'm a bit worried that they are too cheap. They cannot have much equipment, but they do not need it that much.

[MaxWilson]

I haven't gotten to the Ophanim in a real game yet, but yeah, I suspect they're going to be devastatingly cost-effective in SP. On the other hand, so are Wraith Lords, so it might just be the age-old issue the AI has with SCs. But on the other hand, they're resistant to almost everything so all the counters I can think of to Wraith Lords wouldn't work against Ophanim (with a ring for cold resistance). On the gripping hand, I'm not experienced at countering SCs either--I tend to reach for spells and in this case you'd probably want a thug with quickness + flying + Axe of Cleaving instead--so it may be they're okay, especially compared with other Level 8 conjurations like air queens and earth kings. The main cost of summons at that level is the research cost.

That doesn't change the fact that I'm salivating over the idea of getting to Conj 9 for Call Merkavah.

-Max

P.S. Oh yeah, in most cases Ophanim will need to use one of their slots for a reinvig item since they're enc 1 and not enc 0. Nice touch, there--it's one area where they're clearly inferior to the elementals, and for tramplers it does make a big difference.

[chrispedersen]

Honestly KO.. I think the hin and ashdod are way strong.. gath is weak.

[Kristoffer O]

Likely. I've never understood the end game.

[Meglobob]

chrispedersen said:
Honestly KO.. I think the hin and ashdod are way strong.. gath is weak.

Kristoffer O said:
Likely. I've never understood the end game.

I can only speak of the Hinnom who I have played so far but I do not think (so far) they are overpowered.

Like any new race they should be left alone a while to see how they get on, unless something really obvious shows up.

Often players mistake early game domination as a nation which is overpowered and overlook the real late game nations which always dominate. It helps that in the early game all players are around to see what goes on and in the endgame there are only usually 2 - 6 players to see the final outcome.

The giant races have to be compared against each another to determine if they are balanced, so Hinnom should be compared with Niefelheim and Fomoria.

Of the 3, I would consider Fomoria as the most powerful.

But, its still very, very early days with Hinnom.

[MaxWilson]

Thug build for Zamzummim. Requires Alt 6, Const 6. Begin with 4D1E Zamzummim.

Shadow Brand
Luck Shield
Bracers of Protection
Girdle of Might

Cost: 6 pearls, 9 earth gems, 7 death gems (w/ dwarven hammer and Talmai forge bonus where applicable).

Yields Enc 3, att 13, defense 16, Prot 7. Then script <Blessing, Ironskin, Hold, Hold, Soul Vortex, Attack Closest>. With the suggested E10N6 this will give you Prot 24/26 on head/body and leave you at ~25 fatigue after the Soul Vortex. It's possible that you'll get swarmed before you manage to get off your Soul Vortex, in which case you'll cast it later on (spells cancelled due to melee stay in the queue). You'll have a 35+ HP (up to 60 occasionally), regenerating, zero-encumbrance thug with luck and 26 Prot (most size 2 units can't reach the head), Soul Vortex and Leeching Darkness for chaff killing, a 34 AP melee attack at attack 13, defense 16, with several slots left open for resistances and other toys as needed. Substitute Flame Brand for Shadow Brand to save on research and/or death gems.

For a unit with stats of Prot 4 Attack 9 Def 12, the Zamzummite makes a pretty neat thug. Astral Adonim are probably better, but the Zamzummite is recruitable anywhere and you'll have tons of them lying around doing research and battlemagey stuff anyway--this way you can convert one into a thug just by visting a laboratory. Flexibility + mobility = strength.

-Max

[Epaminondas]

Originally Posted by Meglobob

Of the 3, I would consider Fomoria as the most powerful.

But, its still very, very early days with Hinnom.

Could you elaborate on this? It was my impression that they were the weakest.

[sum1lost]

Originally Posted by Epaminondas

Could you elaborate on this? It was my impression that they were the weakest.

Cloud trapazee is an incredibly potent spell on a commander of that kind of combat potential, especially since he can cast mistform, blessing, and soulvortex (with one death gem) out of the box (sometimes even quicken self and breath of winter, too). Also, it is my opinion that the morrigan constitutes one of the nastiest summons in the game. Take a gander at their weapon, and then realize it is on a flying size 2 (I think) unit with high mr and excellent stats.

[Humakty]

Mistform is overvalued, I had two fomorians kings accumulate afflictions with mistform on, and a regen bless. It was also due to the fact that early on you don't have that much forging capabilities, even if in late game you'll probably have offset that disadvantage