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  #1  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 06:52 AM

Denis_469 Denis_469 is offline
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Default Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

I find many errors about soviet artillery in game:
1) soviet anti-tank gun MT-12R not have right data. This gun have radar FC system. For game vision would be 75 (no less), so gun radar have range more then 3500 veters (for game more then 70), all data for fire acces from computer FC system in automatic mode, accurancy fire from radar FC more then accurancy from visual FC. Radar FC was 50 (for game). Data abot this gun in russian: http://npostrela.com/index.php?optio...d=86&Itemid=61
2) need insert in game smoke with cancelled view and visual and thermal, so this smokes was for radar anti-tank gun MT-12R. (For this gins smoke discharger near 10 this smoke)
3) US tank M1A2 need lower armor rate from HEAT less then HEAT piercing russian RPG-29. Link for destroy M1A2 in Iraq from RPG-29 in front hull: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-5RW...layer_embedded
Destroy M1A2 in Iraq from RPG-29 in front turret: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUiT...eature=related
In all case US tanks was destroyed.
4) So US have Abrams wit gun 2013 year Russia also need for new tank in long perspective: I find new russian tank with 7 cats: http://media.aplus.by/2007/03/04/tank_t95_foto.html
And data from wiki: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2-95
(For game): crew 2 people, speed more then 75km/h, 1 152mm gun with 42 shells. New SABOT near in 2 time more piercing then SABOT for 125mm gun. For gun made SABOT, HE and HEAT shells. 1 30mm AA gun instead soviet 12,7mm MG on top turret (not place yet in foto). 1 7,62mm coaxial MG in turret. CIWS - 4, VIRSS - 2, stabiliser - 6, radar FC - 50, radar vision - 75. Armor(heat) - front hull - 110 (150), front turrer 130 (180), side hull - 40 (70), side turret - 42 (80), rear hull - 20 (30), rear turret - 25 (35), top - 130 (180)(if you can see in foto tank top is tank front turret armor list). ERA armor is relikt (A8) in front hull and turret and side hull and turret. About radar rangefinder - unknow what calculate for game.
5) soviet anti-tank gun 2A45M have less FC, then MT-12 what have FC is 15 (not version for radar FC). I think, that need rise FC russain 125mm anti-tank gun for 15 (no less), so new russian FC can not bad then soviet FC what was made early.
6) in game is abscent total soviet 100mm AA gun with radar FC what was in army from 1946 year: http://hist.rloc.ru/lobanov/6_05.htm
7) in game is abscent total soviet 130mm AA gun: http://mega.km.ru/weaponry/encyclop....picNumber=1665
This AA gun was shuting against anti-Iraq planes and Tomahawk in 1991 year for example.
8) In game is abscent total soviet 37mm AA gun "61-K": http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/61-%D0%9A
9) In game is abscent total soviet ZSU "ZSU-37": http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%A1%D0%A3-37
10) After WWII in soviet army was brigade with 305mm howitzer "obr 1915 year". This brigade was loss it's gun in lare 1954 year, so 305mm howitzer was from 1946 to 1954 years.
11) in game is abscent total russian radar Fara for radar FC heavy MG, grenade launchers. Fara have range 5 km (or 100 hex for game). Foto AGS-17 with radar FC from radar FARA: http://images.yandex.ru/yandsearch?p...jpg&rpt=simage
Foto people observation radar "Fara-1" and radar FC "Fara" for 12,7mm heavy MG in link: http://milkavkaz.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=77847
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  #2  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 07:24 AM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Just to address some points:
3) Hard to judge anything from these videos, for example the first one looks more like the left track was hit, and definitely there is no way to judge post-penetration effects - but there seems to be no fire. It might have been a mission kill, in case of penetration the driver would prolly have a bad bad day. But you can easily have this result in SP by combining "bonus penetration" and damage to vehicle - in fact in SP it would be likely to result in total kill.
4) Re. T-95, to my knowledge it did not exceed the same stadium as Black Eagle turret - IOW mockup. Atleast so far.
6+7) Heavy AA guns are not and will not be there, as they work different than light AAA and there's no way how to make them fire long-range barrages.
10) 305mm howitzer is a niche weapon and there is only so much space, esp. in Russian OOB, so choose which weapon to delete. And given that deleting any weapon might well mess up scenarios, Not Gonna Happen.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 07:31 AM

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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marek_Tucan View Post
Just to address some points:
3) Hard to judge anything from these videos, for example the first one looks more like the left track was hit, and definitely there is no way to judge post-penetration effects - but there seems to be no fire. It might have been a mission kill, in case of penetration the driver would prolly have a bad bad day. But you can easily have this result in SP by combining "bonus penetration" and damage to vehicle - in fact in SP it would be likely to result in total kill.
4) Re. T-95, to my knowledge it did not exceed the same stadium as Black Eagle turret - IOW mockup. Atleast so far.
6+7) Heavy AA guns are not and will not be there, as they work different than light AAA and there's no way how to make them fire long-range barrages.
10) 305mm howitzer is a niche weapon and there is only so much space, esp. in Russian OOB, so choose which weapon to delete. And given that deleting any weapon might well mess up scenarios, Not Gonna Happen.
Sorry, my english not good:
1) M1A2 after hit in front hull smoking from turret
M1A2 after hit in turret not kill people with RPG-29. You can see where people stay. If M1A2 not destroy so people was killing.
2) about new tank - see foto please...
Tank with working turret. Testing tank with 6 cats, not 7 cats.
3) about russian OOB - I hope, that autors made OOB more then 999 units.
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  #4  
Old December 2nd, 2009, 08:57 AM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

1) I see rather much dust kicked up by the explosion billowing all over the place, does not seem like smoke to me. Not returning fire might have something to do with a) assessing damage (if there was any - as I said, if it penetrated, driver was most likely injured - either him, or someone else in the path of the jet), b) vicinity of civvies in the field of fire, c) not seeing where to return fire.
2) Did not lok at pics at first, my bad - the vehicle on pics is not T-95, but Black Eagle demonstrator - as was lately revealed, a mockup (not that hard to make it rotate) - without gun (with only mockup 125mm or 135mm), without armor etc. Just a sales stunt that failed - T-90 gets customers, nobody was willing to pay the development of this beast.
3) The problem lies not only with unit slots, but also with weapon slots.

Of course the solution is simple - try making your own OOB11 It's not that hard, if you do not try to rearrange it completely, with moving units and formations It is true that you can possibly reduce say number of 100mm and 125mm guns to gain some space, but only at cost of messing up scenarios.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 09:19 AM

Denis_469 Denis_469 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Well, I hope, that I made it...
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Quote:
M1A2 after hit in front hull smoking from turret
I don't see any smoke coming from the turret hatches once the dust and explosion smoke are cleared, nor there is any picture of the aftermath to show what happened to that vehicle.
For all that we know it it may not even have immobilized it. There is simply not enough info to make a call and given it is propaganda the proverbial pinch of salts need to apply.

Quote:
soviet anti-tank gun MT-12R not have right data. This gun have radar FC system
There has been a fair amount of debate about the radar unit on the MT-12 being little more than an all weather radar rangefinder or being actually useful for target acquisition as well. If the source is correct then it is a capable and likely cost effective system, though I would suspect that target classification would leave something to be desired compared to a thermal sight.


Quote:
6) in game is abscent total soviet 100mm AA gun
7) in game is abscent total soviet 130mm AA gun
As a policy heavy antiaircraft guns like the above are not present in the game as anti-air units. The only ones available, such as 85mm KS-12 in some OOBs, are classed as antitank guns.
This because in the anti-air mode they would be used to shoot at level bombers, which are used very sparingly in the game.
If you check the the others OOB you will see the various 90mm, 3.7 Inch QF etc. aren't available either.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 01:42 PM

Denis_469 Denis_469 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

About MT-12R - it's site developers gun radar. And about classification - not need. Smoking forward gun smoke with not see visual and thermal and fire through smoke in all targets what was find.
About 100mm and 130mm AA guns - I understand.
About M1A2 - I not hope see anyone other. All like western propaganda and refuse facts... as usually.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 02:26 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

What facts are being refused? The videos are totally inconclusive, not facts, the only thing you may tell for sure is that Abrams is being hit by RPG-29 (and even then that is sure only in the first video, the other might be well by popular method of filming a guy "aiming" a RPG somewhere safe and then cutting and pasting the hit sequence). Unless you manage to link the incident on tape with US casaulties, it's inconclusive re. destruction or not.
I can recall for example one much-touted video of Stryker being blown up spectacularily, in a massive bang and cloud of smoke and dirt... And then finding out the vehicle in question in fact suffered only superficial burns and was able to ride on (which of course was not seen on the insurgent vide claiming "destruction") and lots of similar cases (let's for example have look at how many times was Cajone Eh - the Abams that remained in Baghdad after the first Thunder Run - filmed and reported as "yet another destroyed US tank"). Besides take a look at statistics from Lebanon, 2006 - only IIRC 10% of penetrating hits on Merkavas produced a casaulty, large casaulties among tankers were mostly commanders and loaders being hit by splinters when fighting out of hatches. So the mere fact there is a hit on the video means nothing more than that there is a hit - unless clear signs of damage can be shown. Think of it as of WWII rules for acknowledging kills for fighter pilots.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 02:44 PM

Denis_469 Denis_469 is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

Video just quite sufficient. But here there are no proofs something for those who is not capable to accept them. For such any proofs will be insufficient. It is passed and time and again. And concerning Lebanon. In the Russian segment of a network there are foto Merkava 4 turret (for example) amazed in a forehead the Cornet. And thus destroyed. And in game know that the Cornet 4 does not punch a forehead of a tower of Merkava. As well as Mekava 4b. But I here did not stammer at it at all because a forum western and here practically any facts against western wunderwaffe will be recognised by insufficient. Therefore rework OOB 11 and all.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 03:08 PM

Marek_Tucan Marek_Tucan is offline
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Default Re: Questions about soviet artillery and other in game

If you mean the second pic on following link, you might notice, that the armor took the hit as designed and the Merkava soldiers on. If you mean some other picture, it would be nice if you posted a link.
http://defense-update.com/analysis/lebanon_war_3.htm

EDIT: Anyway, the entire discussion is off topic, so if you want to continue, it might be a good idea to a) start a separate topic or b) sendme a PM. I am always interested in new information and possibilities for well-reasoned discussion.
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