Anyone else noticed this?

[Wdll]

Playing 2010 games, large games, PBEM campaigns mostly.

Ever since the last patch, not every time but often enough..., my MBTs while under fire from one unit with multiple shots (usually MBT, but also atgms) will turn the turret a few degrees and instead of continuing to face dead on the enemy as it was for some time now (and no movement on either side), suddently the turret turns just a few degrees to make it possible for the enemy to fire and penetrate the armor, or at least giving that feeling since 95% of the time will get damaged or destroyed by such shot.

[Marcello]

The idea behind such tactic is increasing compound slope achieving the exact opposite of what you are observing.
It is a feature, not a bug.
Whether it actually succeeds depends on circumstances, I would suggest creating some test scenario.

[Wdll]

Hmm, I don't know about test scenario or if it is a feature,, but so far in the many battles played it has the opposite effect. I was being polite when I said 95%, just in case I forgot plenty. Most of the time when the turret auto turns, while already facing the enemy firing at it, the outcome is the destruction of the MBT. Of course I don't know what would the outcome be if it hadn't auto turned, but at best it is a huge coincidence.
Unless of course it turns knowing it is going to be destroyed anyway, more like a AI programming prophesy if you want.

[Cross]

Hi Wdll,

This is from the game guide:

Units when fired on from the flank will often turn to face the firer, thus presenting thicker armour and/or locating previously unspotted firers.

IIRC, your AFV has to pass an experience check - or something - and then it faces towards the firing unit, giving it a better chance of surviving.

Then a more recent update in the 5.0 release:

5) When tanks turn their hulls to face an enemy that is firing they no longer turn the hulls directly 90 degrees which generally increases
their chance of survival by increasing the angle of attack for the shell.

Your AFV now has an even better chance of survival because there's more chance of a glancing blow, and the angle presents thicker armour than facing the incoming ordnance directly.

Cross

[Wdll]

Thank you but I guess I am still not understood.
I will use a slightly different example.

I have a MBT looking hull and turret at 90 degrees. At 90 degrees there is say an enemy vehicle which can fire multiple ATGMs per turn.
The enemy fires one, it misses or hits and deflects etc.
The enemy fires missile number two. As soon as the message that the enemy fires and the sound is made, my MBT will turn its turret just a few degrees, creating an angle where before it was dead on. When this happens it almost always means only one thing, my MBT is dead.
It might be that my tank turned its turret showing that it knows it is going to die and said let's try this turn?
It might be a bug?
It might be coincidence that almost always when this happens the tank is as good as dead?

In theory it might create a better chance to deflect the enemy round, but in practice it almost always mean it is going to die by the incoming round/shell/whatever. Is this almost 1:1 ratio of sudden tiny turret change and its death a normality?

[Cross]

Hi Wdll,

What might be happening is this:

First shots often miss, and the defending vehicle will not turn to face a first shot.

Second shots have a far greater chance of hitting, and your AFV is far more likely to face the enemy for second shots.

In MBT missiles often just need to hit and the AFV is destroyed - that's modern warfare for you - but your AFV does have a slightly better chance of surviving a hit when facing (slightly offset) the incoming ordnance.

Therefore it's not a coincidence that your defending vehicle is turning to face the enemy on second shots and getting KO on second shots.

Those three factors:

1.The high probability of a second shot hit
2.The high probability of a second shot causing a turn to face the enemy
3.The high probability of a hit KO your AFV (in MBT)

Are probably causing you to misread events that appear to be related.

Hope this makes sense.
Cross

[Wdll]

Thank you.
A part of me is not convinced, but what you say is logical. BTW, what I said was not just for ATGMs, but it was easier to explain with them.
I guess I will just have to accept it as the way things are.

[Arralen]

Actually, maybe there's a bug with the thickness calculations, or maybe not. I would test it, but I don't have the time atm. - but you can do it yourself:

1) Look for A) a tank with heavy front, and notedly thinner side armour, and B) some AT-weapon which can only barely (With luck) penetrate the front or the strongly angled side armour
2) Set up a battle with those units in the battle editor. Don't forget to set both sides to human. Remove all ammo from the tank, so it can't shoot back automatically.
3) Save !!
4) start the battle, and fire away. reposition the tank every round to test various angles, and reactions which occour then.

NOTE DOWN EVERY MESSAGE 'bout weapons fired, missile hit and penetration (values) achieved.

If it goes boom, just reload the battle ... . Do that several times until you've fired 40-50 shots, then come back and report the resulting statistics...

[Jaakko]

Getting your tank shot at by multiple enemies after one hex move or one shot is bound to happen several times in any larger tank vs. tank battle. The current angled facing works well in very small scale battles or battles that aren't tank-heavy, but in such it wouldn't matter so much anyway. In my experience the old 90 degrees facing worked better overall. Now there's always the 50% chance that the tank exposes its left side at a more vulnerable angle for the next enemy shooting at it immediately after the first one. It always seems to be the same "left cheek" the tanks expose. I'd suggest either making this random or going back to the direct facing.

I also made a small technical test where I shot an unarmed M1A1HA+ with an Iraqi Assad Babyl from several ranges. After the Abrams tank changed to angled facing, it often got knocked out or immobilised from sabot hits to its left side, especially at short range (10 hexes or less).