Replay

Warnevada · #1 October 8th, 2015, 06:17 PM

On the replay, a cavalry unit is fired upon by a tank. The replay doesn't indicate any hits being scored, but then the unit disappears. PW, if needed is camp1.

Mobhack · #2 October 8th, 2015, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warnevada

On the replay, a cavalry unit is fired upon by a tank. The replay doesn't indicate any hits being scored, but then the unit disappears. PW, if needed is camp1.

It probably was killed by an unspotted unit that fired on it after the tank was done. Messages for unspotted units sometimes don't get logged. Or, perhaps it surrendered to an adjacent but unspotted unit - again that should not be logged as it would give the player info he does not know.

Ask your opponent what killed it (or maybe captured it) once a few turns have passed, and it's no longer current info that would help you out.

Warnevada · #3 October 9th, 2015, 05:38 PM

I asked him. All he remembers is that only the one tank fired at the cavalry and he thought the cavalry had retreated.

Is there any way from the save to figure out what might have happened?

Mobhack · #4 October 10th, 2015, 11:13 AM

If it retreated out of LOS, and so was unspotted when the code decided it should dissolve on a subse3quent retreat of a hex - then that wont be logged either.

Warnevada · #5 October 10th, 2015, 03:59 PM

But why didn't the initial tank shots register any hits in the replay? There must have been some because the unit started the turn full strength.

I've seen this before on the replay, but with remnant units. This is the first time a full strength unit seemingly disappeared.

Imp · #6 October 10th, 2015, 05:54 PM

Not downloaded but try turning blast circles on a unit does not have to get hit directly to cause suppression or loss which is why multiple units in a hex is generally a bad idea.

Mobhack · #7 October 10th, 2015, 07:14 PM

Yes - enough shots near enough to a soft target can raise suppression to rout status with near misses causing it to fail a morale test.

Near misses are not noted, but a firer can see his effect if he hovers the mouse over the target after shooting, since SP tells you the status of enemy units (Pinned, retreating, routed etc).

So the cavalry may have been made to retreat or rout, moved back a hex, then the same on a subsequent retreat in the end turn retreat sequence when out of enemy LOS and gone "puff" since the dispersal test on depleted elements happens for each hex moved in retreat/rout. Since it was unspotted when it dispersed, no message was given - such would be free information the the opposite player. SP messages are global, not for each player. So to avoid free information, if it is not currently spotted by the enemy then no message is printed.

Warnevada · #8 October 11th, 2015, 04:56 PM

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

Which is correct:

1) Near misses can cause casualties but they are not noted in the messages.
2) Routed full strength units may disperse.

Mobhack · #9 October 11th, 2015, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warnevada

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

Which is correct:

1) Near misses can cause casualties but they are not noted in the messages.
2) Routed full strength units may disperse.

1) Near misses on soft elements causes suppression, which leads to morale tests, which can fail and so lead to a worse state (pinned, retreat, rout).
Damage (casualties and direct hits that caused no kills) leads to worse suppression, and hence more likelihood of failing morale tests.
The only status message given in the game is for an actual casualty. However, you can hover the mouse over a target element and note its (possible) changed status after shooting at it.

2) Retreating or routed elements which are at or below the dispersal fraction, can disperse on retreating a hex. Usually it happens on the first such hex at end of turn retreat time, but sometimes it happens on a subsequent one.
The worst case for a routed element at its dispersal limits however is a retreat due to a direct hit (whether it is a kill shot or not) that causes a pull-back manoeuvre. Those elements retreating at end turn due to morale have a far better chance of "holding it together" than one that was forced to retire due to enemy fire but even so sometimes they will dissipate.

Warnevada · #10 October 12th, 2015, 02:19 PM

You have used a term with which I'm not familiar: "dispersal fraction." Is this something I can see for a given unit?

Presumably, this fraction is less than a unit's full strength. Which brings us back to the original issue. The cavalry started the turn at full strength. There were no casualty messages while it was being fired at. It retreated because of the fire it took and then presumably dispersed. Looks to me like there's something wrong here. Either casualty messages are not being put out, or the unit was erroneously dispersed.

My vote is for missing casualty messages because with infantry I've seen the visual of the squad change indicating a casualty took place but there was no accompanying message. With the cavalry visual that doesn't happen; after the first casualty the visual stays the same until the unit disappears.