How to explain Dom3 to a 5 year old?

[Endoperez]

Wouldn't Conquest Of Elysium 2 be a good choice?

Besides being free and having been made by Illwinter, the games can be over relatively fast, but can take very long if he keeps exploring. And there's lots to explore. Including dragons that have taken over gold mines. And sometimes there's a huge, gigantic moose guarding an ancient forest. There might be elephants in the jungle. Vampires in abandoned castles, a graveyard filled with ghosts. Perhaps an eldritch horror in a swamp. Some dwarves living in a mine in the mountains. A king holding his court in a castle.

The mechanics are relatively simple for some nations. Some magicians are more complex. There are necromancers and demonologists, which could end up being embarrassing (my dad's teaching me to summon demons!), but without knowing how to micromanage the resources he's likely to get frustrated with them (I don't want to summon demons! no one likes you if you do that, and then they don't pay their taxes!).

The recruitment screen doesn't have those helpful images that'd let him identify the troops, but the numbers tell him something about the units' quality - 5 for 50, 4 for 50, 10 for 70 and so on.

I don't remember if the AI continuing to play after the player has died has been fixed. That could be troublesome.

[sansanjuan]

Originally Posted by SsSam

I mean.....Why not let him play?

There's nothing wrong with him playing, is tbere?

Now, he may not play in the same way that you play. I let my little ones play civilization when they where about that age. They had fun. They are older now and sometimes still play civilization. Not in the same way that I play, but....it's play, right?

If he plays... you may want to steer him clear of nations with blood sacrifices until he is at least 6..
-ssj

[SsSam]

Originally Posted by sansanjuan

If he plays... you may want to steer him clear of nations with blood sacrifices until he is at least 6..
-ssj

Heh. I spent several years playing dominions before I would play a blood nation.

I spent several games playing Middle Era Jotun without going into blood.

[samoht]

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing a game of Dom 3 with him. I mean there certainly are some themes I wouldn't want my 5 year old exploring (like previously mentioned blood sacrifices) until he was older and better able to grasp some of the concepts, but a simple game between you and the AI, where you pick the nations involved (and thus are able to reasonably avoid some of the more complex/grimmer themes) would be a pretty good idea. With some adult supervision you could reasonably walk him through and avoid anything you don't want to go into too much detail.

You could explain the basic mechanics to him, let him give you commands that you input into the game, and go turn by turn and let him see how a game unfolds while you answer any questions he might have. Send a bunch of knights at those dragons and if it doesn't work? Maybe suggest a different course of action for him to take.

I know it isn't exactly the same, but at roughly that age I finally broke my dad down and had him teach me how to play Axis & Allies. Sure, at age 6 or 7 I just wanted to play with little plastic tanks and bombers, but it was some great quality time and I was able to start learning things like allocation of resources (few that they were) at an age where most of my friends were playing Mario (not that there is anything wrong with Mario).

You could build some fond memories with the little fella between turns of subjugating the heathens.

[Chazar]

Hm. I might give it a try playing Dom3, but my worry here is that it might be too boring for a 5 year old. He got interested while seeing an action packed battle replay, but playing Dom3 actually means spending very little time on replays (at least for me).

Wesnoth appears to be better suited at first glance, since each decision is immediately followed by a feedback: if you click on the knight to fight, the fight happens immediately and is even animated so that a child can understand what is happening. This is a problem with Dom3: I think he did not even understand that a battle replay is just a replay, i.e. without interaction, that you cannot just play and "retry the level" by having a different battle setup, etc. Also, in Dom3 one plans several battles at once, and keeping all that is going on simultaneously in mind is hard enough for me already.

However, the drawback with Wesnoth is the unintuitive graphics: they are cute, but much harder to understand than those found in the battle replays of Dom3. In Wesnoth, every unit is drawn same size and you do not see a difference between an archer and a knight attacking. The animation is pretty much the same. If you cannot read, you do not understand the advantages and disadvantages of different units. In Dom3, you easily see that a Tarrasque is a huge mighty monster, how an archer shoots his arrows from a safe place in the far back, or that a mage's lightning bolt is pretty destructive force. It's not only impressive, but there is no reading required. It is intuitive to understand in Dom3! So I guess I am looking for a game with Dom3-like Battle graphics, but with Wesnoth-like immediate turn based movements, and not simultaneous turns (which is why I love Dom3 for myself, incidentally).

From the screenshots, Land of Legends, which I do not know, might fit the bill well, but apparently it is impossible to get hold of the game right now (not listed in the Shrapnel Webshop and posts on the forum say it is not available).

CoE2 does not seem to fit what I am looking for either, for a child might have trouble understanding the crude graphics.


I am not worried about what he sees in Dom3 or what he might blubber about it elsewhere. I am worried that he is turned off because Dom3 is too complex and slow (or non-interactive) for him to play. I want him to understand the flavor of these games and why I find them interesting; I got one chance, and I want to have some chance of success.

[Knai]

Originally Posted by Chazar

However, the drawback with Wesnoth is the unintuitive graphics: they are cute, but much harder to understand than those found in the battle replays of Dom3. In Wesnoth, every unit is drawn same size and you do not see a difference between an archer and a knight attacking. The animation is pretty much the same. If you cannot read, you do not understand the advantages and disadvantages of different units. In Dom3, you easily see that a Tarrasque is a huge mighty monster, how an archer shoots his arrows from a safe place in the far back, or that a mage's lightning bolt is pretty destructive force. It's not only impressive, but there is no reading required.

Wrong. Not only are the animations different in an obvious way, but there is a size indicator - higher level units are bigger, for the most part, and certain skirmishers and certain thuggish units break this. Trolls, for instance, are quite large, Saurian Skirmishers (small lizards that can basically ignore a mechanic called zone of control) are small. As for unit advantages, if you know which numbers are bigger, you can understand the basics, particularly as concerns terrain - moreover, its quite intuitive. Cavalry don't handle forests particularly well, most humans have issues with marshes, Dwarves like mountains, so on and so forth.

Then there are the obvious special abilities, which tend to have graphical indicators. A net, for instance, has a net icon in attacking, and like a net should, slows people down (it also reduces damage). Wesnoth is really intuitive, reading or no, once you get used to it. Plus, there is always experimentation, which kids tend to be able to work with, he won't be studying every units movement costs, terrain defense values, attacks, special abilities minutia, or vulnerabilities and resistances, but experimentation can give a basic idea.

[Chazar]

Originally Posted by Knai

Wrong. Not only are the animations different in an obvious way, but there is a size indicator - higher level units are bigger, for the most part, ...

Yeah, but it is nowhere near the size difference between a Tarrasque and a Hoburg in Dom3, which is just a little bit more up to scale.

Also, last time I played Wesnoth, the archers had to be adjacent to the unit they were attacking. Quite unintuitive, too.

Wesnoth is a good game, but I believe it is way too abstract from the perspective of a pre-schooler, who tends to take everything literally. His ideas about knights needing to get close while arrows are fired from a safe distance are from real world experiences at renaissance fairs and medieval tournaments involving jousting and archery, and him having first hand experience with the versions for the children.

[danm]

Heroes of Might and Magic might be an option. Also not exactly what you are looking for, but the last iteration (5?) has pretty spiffy 3d graphics for a TBS. I could imagine a young kid having a lot of fun watching the tactical battles, and telling you what sort of troops and spells to use and whatnot.

My niece (who is now 20) had a great time "playing" warcraft2 when she was five... she would entertain herself for hours wandering around the map squishing seals.

[lch]

I think that Warcraft 2 would be an excellent choice, too. Unfortunately I can't come up with any other games that would be a good alternative for you.

[Knai]

Originally Posted by Chazar

Yeah, but it is nowhere near the size difference between a Tarrasque and a Hoburg in Dom3, which is just a little bit more up to scale.

Also, last time I played Wesnoth, the archers had to be adjacent to the unit they were attacking. Quite unintuitive, too.

Wesnoth is a good game, but I believe it is way too abstract from the perspective of a pre-schooler, who tends to take everything literally. His ideas about knights needing to get close while arrows are fired from a safe distance are from real world experiences at renaissance fairs and medieval tournaments involving jousting and archery, and him having first hand experience with the versions for the children.

None of the units in Wesnoth outpower eachother to the point of Tarrasque-Hoburg. Even the level 4 Archmage, Shyde, and Sylph can be brought down with a bunch of level 1s. Whereas bringing tarrasques down with hoburgs is going to require an absurd amount of hoburgs on the defense (and even then, its the fifty turn limit), or intensive magical support.

As for archers being adjacent to the unit they were attacking, considering the scale of the game that makes perfect sense. If one hex has a forest, and the one next to it a mountain, then they are probably miles across - and the whole melee counter attacks melee, ranged counter attacks ranged, attack on your turn at the range you want (assuming you have options, some units don't) thing makes perfect sense.

It might be a bit too abstract. However, at the basic end it is very simple, and it might be worth a shot. I have taught it to seven year olds, who could play even the easier campaigns, though not well. I've taught it to a nine year old, who actually plays pretty well. It seems a lot harder to understand than it is when you understand a lot of it. Plus, the tutorial does do a decent job of explaining things.