Warning: Illegal string offset 'type' in [path]/includes/class_postbit.php(294) : eval()'d code on line 65
Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc - Page 3 - .com.unity Forums
.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

Bronze- Save $8.00
War Plan Pacific- Save $7.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old September 7th, 2010, 04:00 PM
Squirrelloid Squirrelloid is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,157
Thanks: 69
Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
Squirrelloid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

A list of what it is missing would require some idea of what it is supposed to include.

'God Mountain' is Ol Donyo L'Engai, also known as Mount Kenya, and sacred to the Maasai. Maasai also vaguely matches the basic infantry units to some degree. Note that the only animal I can find a mythological reference associated with that mountain is cattle (unsurprising, given the Maasai's close association with cattle). In fact, Ol Donyo L'Engai is important because that is where Engai gave the Maasai cattle.

Some simple things that could have been done to add more flavor:
-A Maasai warrior is called a Moran. (plural apparently Morani).
-A Maasai ritual leader (probably combination of mage and priest) is called a Laibon. Laibon's traditionally engage in shamanistic healing, divination, and prophecy (suggests S and N magic).
-In addition to the spear, Maasai also use a knife called a 'simi', and a throwing club called an Orinka that was accurate to great distances (100 meters according to wikipedia!).
-Lion hunting was a right of passage for Maasai warriors. Possibly differentiate infantry by having a more veteran option be a lion slayer or somesuch - graphics with a lion pelt (Maasai don't wear the lion's pelt like that, but it would give decent game visualization).
-Blacksmiths, known as il-kunono, are avoided because they make 'weapons of death'. Possibly an ostracized caste that is kept around by the rulers/god because they are useful. (Earth mage with forge bonus?)
-The Maasai have two gods: Engai and Olapa. Engai is a sun god and Olapa is a moon goddess, suggesting fire and astral magic for those dedicated to Engai, and some set of astral, death, nature, and/or blood magic for those dedicated to Olapa. Engai also created humans, and made them from a tree, so has some claim to nature magic.
-Cattle are sacred and the direct link to Engai. A sacred cattle unit is virtually required!

Some less simple things that could have been done:
-The Maasai believe that a buried corpse can poison the soil, and so only bury important leaders. Game mechanic - population under Machaka dominion doesn't bury corpses. (not moddable)
-A corpse that a scavenger refuses to eat is known as Ondilili or Oln'gojine and thought to have something wrong with it. Possibly a death-based summon or battlefield summon using them would be appropriate. (moddable)
-Maasai drink cow's blood for warmth and strength. Possibly a full battlefield spell that gives FR50, +strength, +morale, possibly only to machakan nationals (if such a thing is possible). (at least partially moddable)
-Maasai culture involves cattle raiding - possibly a remote unrest/attack spell. Ideally causes unrest and nets gold for casting nation. (partially moddable)
-The Maasai primary god, Engai, has a dual nature. Wikipedia puts it simply: "Engai Narok (Black God) is benevolent, and Engai Nanyokie (Red God) is vengeful". Battlefield spells based on invoking aspects of Engai are certainly imaginable.
-Developing the sacred cattle idea, and looking at the use of cow blood and logical blood-magic associated with Olapa-dedicated mages, perhaps a sacred capital only cow commander who produces blood slaves slowly, but Machaka cannot issue the bloodhunt order. (not moddable afaik).
-Of course, national blood spells (which may include those already proposed) would be a necessity since the blood theme running through this conception is a lot different than the usual blood magic in dom3.

Less Developed ideas
-The Maasai believe there are three groups of people. The Torrobo (hunter-gatherers), the kikuyu (cultivators), and themselves. Roles for the other two groups, either in the recruitable list, or at least in the lore, are certainly possible.
-Maasai believe each person is born with a guardian spirit, and in addition to protecting them during this life, that spirit will also judge them at death and take them to the appropriate afterlife.


I cannot explain giant spiders or armored hoplites or a cult of assassins based on the Maasai, and at present time do not know where such things come from.
__________________
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels.
--Chip 4:2

Ulm: Order of the Black Rose - Reimagining MA Ulm

A more Sombre forum: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?.act=idx. Now with more Maerlande.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old September 7th, 2010, 04:08 PM

Knai Knai is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 329
Thanks: 33
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Knai is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

Of course, this works off the assumption that Machaka has anything to do with the Maasai, which is dubious at best. Africa is big and has a lot of highly varied mythology, the lack of Maasai specific traits is hardly indicative of a failed nation concept.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old September 7th, 2010, 04:12 PM
Squirrelloid Squirrelloid is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,157
Thanks: 69
Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
Squirrelloid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

It uses the Maasai holy site and Maasai-inspired warriors. Seems a better match than any other group i could think of, and covers all those aspects that I can match to *any* African culture I know of.

But as i started with, saying what's missing requires some idea of what its supposed to be. I can't tell from what's included in the game what it was supposed to be. Most of what I can't explain looks disturbingly like some 'darkest africa' or 'tarzan' idea of Africa.

Edit: Ooh, i found a myth that involves spiders who can turn into people. Of course, its Japanese... (see Tsuchigumo).
__________________
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels.
--Chip 4:2

Ulm: Order of the Black Rose - Reimagining MA Ulm

A more Sombre forum: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?.act=idx. Now with more Maerlande.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old September 7th, 2010, 04:21 PM
Edi's Avatar

Edi Edi is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 5,425
Thanks: 174
Thanked 695 Times in 267 Posts
Edi is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

Thank you for the detailed post.

Interesting stuff. Also decidedly different from several West African myths in some respects, though I expect some commonality. Machaka does have some of the dark Africa things going for it, but a lot of the things in it fit that plus a mixture of West African mythologies.

I must admit that my reading on those is rather cursory. I will try to find the time this week to look into the things I have previously perused and analyze them in more detail, because the effort you went into deserves a response in kind.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old September 7th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Squirrelloid Squirrelloid is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,157
Thanks: 69
Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
Squirrelloid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

I agree that you could do a totally different African-themed nation based on cultures that practice Voodun. However, my knowledge is insufficient to do that justice at present (especially since its complicated by large regional variation as to what comprises Voodun, and confusion caused by american myths about Voodun).
__________________
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels.
--Chip 4:2

Ulm: Order of the Black Rose - Reimagining MA Ulm

A more Sombre forum: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?.act=idx. Now with more Maerlande.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old September 7th, 2010, 05:24 PM
HoneyBadger's Avatar

HoneyBadger HoneyBadger is offline
General
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,445
Thanks: 85
Thanked 79 Times in 51 Posts
HoneyBadger is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

Since Edi's asking, here are a few things I think could be improved with Machaka:

One think I wish Machaka would do would be to more fully embrace Ashanti mythology. The connection between an African Nation utilizing spiders, and Anansi the spider-god (who originated in Ashanti myth), is pretty obvious on the face of things, but it's also portrayed rather vaguely and tentatively.

They use/are related to spiders, they're African.

A third step into "they're the Ashanti myth of Anansi, through the lens of a historically-based fantasy strategy game" is never really taken, and I think that is part of the reason they come off as a bit of a steriotype. It wouldn't be impossible to change just a very few details, and end up with a South American Nation riding Goliath bird-eating spiders, or Australian Aborigines riding funnelweb spiders, or Laotian Giant huntsman spiders, particularly since tarantulas are American in origin (the word "tarantula" was first coined by American colonists for the funnel web tarantula, and tarantulas range from the Caribbean to South America.

If Machaka were Caribbean in origin, they would make a lot more sense, thematically, since the myth of Anansi was carried into the Caribbean by African slaves. Caribbean flavours could then be added to the Nation, giving it a stronger and more defined "theme".

Another problem is that you've got a Middle Ages Nation using what amounts to an Early Ages sacred unit (big, powerful, expensive), without a very good reason for them to be incorporated into that Nation's armed forces, and without corresponding Middle Ages technology (no crossbows, little armour).

If they're going to remain Ashante, Machaka might be given an Asantehene "king" unit, who would wear a soulwasher's badge, which would give them strong protection against demons and the undead, up until they were first struck in battle (1 HP Firstform, second form lacks the soulwasher's badge).

Okomfo Anokye was a powerful priest and co-founder of the Ashanti Nation, who occupied the positions of both Nation Founder, and Lawgiver, and who occupies a "Merlin-like" position in Ashanti legend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okomfo_Anokye
Apparently (from what I could tell from the article), he had mystical power over the earth.
Having a 3 Holy/3 Earth hero would give Machaka a boost.

The other co-founder of Ashanti was Osei Tutu, who was a great warrior, and who possessed mystical amulets and body armour that were proof against missles--when he left them at home on a raid, this proved his undoing. So, you might have a strong (human) warrior who comes pre-equipped with an amulet that protects 100% against missles.

A nice heroic unit to give them from Ashanti legend would be the sacred Golden Stool, a unit that might give them a strong banner, a patrol bonus, holy magic, blood magic, etc. Whatever seems to best fill any percieved gaps. The Golden Stool is such a significant and sacred cultural item that the Ashanti have been known to go to war just to protect it's sanctity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashanti#Ashanti_Kingdom

Another heroic unit to give them could be the two golden masks of Adinkra, which were made from a golden stool that Adinkra, the king of Gyaaman, had made to replicate the Ashanti stool. The Ashanti defeated Gyaaman, beheaded Adinkra, and then made two masks in the shape of Adinkra's "ugly face". They now hang on either side of the Ashanti stool, to this day. They might come with banners and high Fear, and be intended to "lead the way" at or close to the front lines.
__________________
You've sailed off the edge of the map--here there be badgers!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old September 7th, 2010, 07:36 PM

Action Action is offline
Private
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 34
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Action is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelloid View Post
Machaka has:
(2) nothing that doesn't look like an ignorant white man's exoticized concept of Africa.
I dunno.

It's not like there is some kind of stereotype about Africa being known for hoplites sporting overly encumbering plate hauberks, or full plate wearing assassins
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old September 7th, 2010, 07:53 PM
Squirrelloid Squirrelloid is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,157
Thanks: 69
Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
Squirrelloid is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

ok, i agree, those are just weird. Its the giant spiders that feel like a europeanized idea of african beliefs.
__________________
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels.
--Chip 4:2

Ulm: Order of the Black Rose - Reimagining MA Ulm

A more Sombre forum: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?.act=idx. Now with more Maerlande.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old September 8th, 2010, 06:14 AM
Gregstrom's Avatar

Gregstrom Gregstrom is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,066
Thanks: 109
Thanked 162 Times in 118 Posts
Gregstrom is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

If you're talking Maasai, why not make it East Africa in general and tie the spiders and sorcerors into the shetani?
__________________
A Beginner's guide to Lanka

Want to use multiple mods? The Mod Compatibility Index might be useful.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old September 12th, 2010, 12:41 AM
HoneyBadger's Avatar

HoneyBadger HoneyBadger is offline
General
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,445
Thanks: 85
Thanked 79 Times in 51 Posts
HoneyBadger is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Vanarus, Machaka Lion Kings etc

Hey, Shetani cult's a great idea! Better for East Africa than West, though (and I really feel there should be atleast one clearly Western African Nation), but East Africa is really interesting.

I'd probably base it on Zanzibar/Tanzania, rather than Ethiopia, simply because there's plenty going on in East Africa for atleast 2 decent Nations, and those two areas would make a nice division.

For instance, you could draw from Khoisan (Bushmen) and the Ku****e Kingdom for EA, with Shetani cult mysticism, along with some "King Solomon's Mines"/coast of Zinj/mild Jewish influences, in the MA, and an LA of Arab and Portuguise flavour, sprinkled with Indian spice (trade), all centered around a great city of Zanzibar.
__________________
You've sailed off the edge of the map--here there be badgers!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2023, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.