PD wars! (no monkeys allowed)

[Squirrelloid]

WingedDog, that's a flawed analysis. Every 20PD province is 155g. If we assume a modest empire of 15 provinces (capital aside), that's 2325g vs. 15g for 1PD in every province. 2325g is almost 3 more forts! Or a lot of mages/troops.

If I saw someone with 20 PD everywhere, he'd be near the top of my to hit list. Sure, raiding might be harder, but it means i can just walk over him because he either skimped on infrastructure or army to get that PD.

[WingedDog]

Squirrelloid
20 PD is actually about 200 gold, so for a 15 province empire 20 PD for every province costs like 3000 gold. Assuming we have an income of 1500 gold - it's a two turns investement for confidence you are not striped of all your provinces in a single turn and thus of all gold and gem income. At least until late game. Worth it or not everyone decides for himself.

[fantasma]

It is 210, to be exact. I think it really depends on what your nation's PD is able to stop. But would I trade that for another two forts? Any day (almost). But I think Squirreloid subtracted the 10 PD he used to buy, which makes the difference between the positions somewhat relative.

[Calahan]

The formula for PD costs is...

(X * X+1) / 2

So plugging 20 PD in gives you...

(20 * 21) / 2 = 210gp

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by fantasma

It is 210, to be exact.

A quick formula is on the wiki: http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Province_defence.

"The total cost of Province defence starting from 0 to n can be calculated by using the formula (n*(n+1))/2."

Edit:
Soy "slower than Calahan" Weiser

[thejeff]

20 is higher than I'd usually go. But even 10 or 15 can force your enemy to invest more in his raiders and thus have less available. That'll usually stop things like Arouse Hunger or Call of the Winds and even cheaper thugs.

While you could do the same by recruiting troops and stationing them everywhere, at those levels PD is often as good as the same gold cost in troops and doesn't use upkeep. Sure, you could buy more Forts/labs/temples or more mages, but the potential loss of all the income and gem producing provinces on the first turn of a war is devastating.

[Gandalf Parker]

No upkeep, and automatically replenished if you win. That has allowed PD to wear down some sizable armies in my games. Also less micromanagement. And can help insure that at least one province remains yours in a troubled area without having to post an army there. Chokepoints, a newly taken province next to an enemy capital, a newly taken capital, a province with a surprisingly useful recruit list such as from a magic site.

But no spreadsheet logic is going to completely settle it. Some people just dont play that way. There is some RPGness to PD which doesnt quite have it left out of the game. Maybe if its some quick little king-of-the-hill game.

[Meursy]

I can see both sides of the argument. On one hand 20 PD in every province seems like a waste of money later on, when more powerful armies and thugs can take it out pretty easy, but in early to mid mid-game it does make an empire gank more or less impossible to pull off on a grand scale.

In a game I'm in now one player had mostly token PD everywhere (like 1PD, occasionally 10, but monkey PD is always token PD, right? ), so I was able to sneak a bunch of guys in there and take like 18 provinces in one turn, combined with some remote attack spells (but not Arouse Hunger, that blows against monkey PD). If he had had 20 PD everywhere (or even 10), I would've run the risk of having some of my guys discovered. They still would've won their individual battle, but then of course my opponent can start reacting instead of being taken completely by surprise, and losing 3/4 of his provinces in a single turn. And naturally the supplementary remote attack spells wouldn't have been possible.

That's one important value of higher PD early on (though i can't imagine putting 20 PD anywhere much ever). It's value fades as the game progresses, but then so do a lot of things.

Edit: also there was another major player in the game who had put in higher PD, which was the deciding factor in my decision of who to attack, so it has that value too.

[Gandalf Parker]

And like many recommendations in the game, map size can matter (or actually prov-to-player ratio). If you have areas that you own which would take you a few turns to get an army to, then local defense becomes more important.

For Dom3 all answers can be considered to be followed automatically with "which of course is only usually true depending on your nation, solo or mp play, the size of the map, how late in the game, which mods are in use, game settings, and who you are presently worried about".

[Squirrelloid]

sorry, yes, 210g. 155 is from 10 to 20.

I routinely buy enough PD to foil Call of the Wind. Generally that will handle arouse hunger too. (Its 5 monkey PD, less for most other nations).

And 3000 gold is 3-4 forts, which is confidence you won't be stripped of that gem income in a turn, and a place to hire units and mages.

All I'm saying is, PD is a pretty weak investment by comparison, because large amounts of PD are too expensive.