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  #1  
Old July 12th, 2010, 09:54 AM
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Default MA Test Game - Retinues

I want to test a component of my MA balance mod - retinues. What I've done is this: I've given every national commander (not mages, but non-mage priests yes) the ability to appear in battle with a medium-sized retinue of warriors, which are replaced automatically each fight. I'm still fine-tuning the retinue sizes.

The other components of my MA test mod will be tested later. It will be a 6 player game on one of Gandalf's random maps, with nations chosen from the list below. Renaming will be on, other settings will be standard. There will be no rollbacks or hosting delays, quickhost with a 24h timer unless and until a majority want the host lengthened.

It will not be CBM, but if anyone wants to use a CBM *pretender*, note that below and I will make sure the CBM chassis you want to use is available (the final version of the mod will include many of the changes in CBM 1.6, including most of the pretender buffs)

This will be an otherwise-vanilla game, I'm looking for six players to fill the following nations:
MA Mictlan
MA Ermor or MA Pythium
MA Marignon
MA Caelum
MA Pangaea
MA Shinuyama

Although this is a test-game, I'm hoping that it will be hyper-competitive, as that should give me a good idea on the balance consequences for this change. It'll be a direct-connect game. I will play the sixth position if I can get it free. I'm hoping to launch Wednesday morning, but it might launch anytime in the next week and a half, depending on level of interest and when people want to start.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

The one obvious problem with this idea is that it significantly lowers the thugging potential of some commanders because of morale issues. Probably not with the nations listed (though I many times thought of how the Shuten-Doji could be used a thug but each time decided against it) but still...
But it may be a cool idea although I don't think it will help balance much
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Old July 12th, 2010, 12:26 PM

LDiCesare LDiCesare is offline
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

You're just adding retinues?
Clamless?
Do assassin commanders (Machaka, but it's not in your list) come with a retinue?
Do theurg communicants come with a retinue?
Do Marignon Friars, Seraphines, black harpies, centaur hierophants, bakemono scouts and bandit leaders get a retinue? (What with being stealthy and thus killing PD 1 easily)
Ermorian cultists should probably get ghouls...

I miss the point of MA Mictlan in this set of nation. There's little reason why they'd want to recruit non mage/priest commanders except for ferrying troops, and when they're idle these often summon slaves, so I don't think you'll be testing anything about them unless there's something else in the mod.
Machaka if you make the change for their assassin would need testing however.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

I should add - the intent of this mod is to encourage people to use national commanders. There are nation vs. nation balance components to the mod which I will be testing later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDiCesare View Post
You're just adding retinues?
Clamless?
No, not clamless, but the maps are fairly small.
I haven't decided whether the overall balance mod will be clamless. Clamlessness has complicated effects on nation vs. nation balance in the late game, and I don't object to clamming? I want games to end eventually, and clam-hordeing is a good way to build up an insurmountable lead and actually win.

Quote:
Do assassin commanders (Machaka, but it's not in your list) come with a retinue?
Yes, the bane spider comes with a retinue, but this is a component of the nation vs. nation balance for Machaka, which I will flesh out later. Are there any other leader/assassins? I don't think there are.

Quote:
Do theurg communicants come with a retinue?
No, but Battle Acolytes will come with retinues (probably standard bearers?)

Quote:
Do Marignon Friars, Seraphines, black harpies, centaur hierophants, bakemono scouts and bandit leaders get a retinue? (What with being stealthy and thus killing PD 1 easily)
Scouts and priests will get retinues IF they have leadership, except maybe seraphines - if seraphines come with retinues, they will be a little-girl Caelum acolyte unit which I will add. The scout retinues will be small, though - unless the scout has full leadership.
Witch-hunters (of all levels, including the ones who get a single F pick) and Anathemants will both come with retinues, but they will be small, relative to the cost of the commander, even though both those units get decent leadership.

Quote:
Ermorian cultists should probably get ghouls...
Good point.

Quote:
I miss the point of MA Mictlan in this set of nation. There's little reason why they'd want to recruit non mage/priest commanders except for ferrying troops, and when they're idle these often summon slaves, so I don't think you'll be testing anything about them unless there's something else in the mod.
Machaka if you make the change for their assassin would need testing however.
I'm adding MA Mictlan to this game b/c it'll give me another data point to decide how they stack up against the other nations on the list. They probably won't use their retinues, you're correct.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ano View Post
The one obvious problem with this idea is that it significantly lowers the thugging potential of some commanders because of morale issues. Probably not with the nations listed (though I many times thought of how the Shuten-Doji could be used a thug but each time decided against it) but still...
But it may be a cool idea although I don't think it will help balance much
There are a few thuggable commanders which will not be given retinues for other reasons (notably the various Jotun and Ashdod commanders.)

Are people really spending a lot of time thugging their Emerald Lords? I've seen it done, but of all the things to worry about, this concerns me the least.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

Hmm, I like the fantasy role playing idea of heroes, commanders, or what have you and their retinues of loyal troops. Perhaps smallish in terms of numbers and with high morale. I am guessing it saves players from having to manually assign bodyguards to commanders in battle and auto replacing them means no extra recruitment, or expenses. I am available if you need assistance with testing the concept from a rather noobish player, probably via Ermor or Pythium. Will the game run full length or just long enough to see if it makes an impact? Probably prefer the later.
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Last edited by Septimius Severus; July 12th, 2010 at 03:36 PM..
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Old July 12th, 2010, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

This is a preliminary version of the mod.
Attached Files
File Type: zip drpraetorm.zip (29.2 KB, 59 views)
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Old July 12th, 2010, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

The *main* purpose of this mod is to motivate people to actually use their national commanders.

Once that is in place (if even to a limited extent), you can balance weaker nations by giving them better national commanders/retinues. At present, having better national commanders is a completely meaningless advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Septimius Severus View Post
Hmm, I like the fantasy role playing idea of heroes, commanders, or what have you and their retinues of loyal troops. Perhaps smallish in terms of numbers and with high morale. I am guessing it saves players from having to manually assign bodyguards to commanders in battle and auto replacing them means no extra recruitment, or expenses. I am available if you need assistance with testing the concept from a rather noobish player, probably via Ermor or Pythium. Will the game run full length or just long enough to see if it makes an impact? Probably prefer the later.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 04:06 AM

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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

Shuten-doji seem even less interesting to recruit wigth no retinue.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: MA Test Game - Retinues

Shuten-doji have a poorly-understood exhaustion field which would knock their retinues unconscious. Then the retinue would be murdered and the shuten-doji would flee due to auto-rout.

Shuten-doji are intended to be thuggable - and can't really be adapted to serve as useful commanders.
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