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Old November 29th, 2010, 07:29 PM

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A3. ADNAN 50 APC/Click image for larger version

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A4. ADNAN AGL APC/Click image for larger version

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A5. ADNAN AIFV/Click image for larger version

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Old November 29th, 2010, 07:38 PM

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A6. ADNAN ATGW/Click image for larger version

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A7. ADNAN SP 81mm/Click image for larger version

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Old November 29th, 2010, 07:45 PM

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A8. ADNAN SP 120mm/
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C2. FRES-SV for modeling and game?/Click image for larger version

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Old November 29th, 2010, 07:54 PM

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Last one for page 2 inputs.
A9. BTR-4 & A10. BTR-4 GROM/
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A11. BTR-4 BAU/Click image for larger version

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Don't remember (Though in refs.) All BTR-4 models are fully amphibious.

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Old November 29th, 2010, 10:14 PM

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Just realized that the first ref for A1. MCV PARS was not put in right by me-sorry! Here it is below:

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Old November 30th, 2010, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Take a long break Pat. I'm already up to my ears

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Old November 30th, 2010, 12:52 PM

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THANKS! I haven't been able to play WinSPMBT since AUG. to finish off my campaign in progress. Will work the last slowly and it'll allow me to back check a couple of things. Currently looking at about 20-25 deletions across about 5 (US @ ~ 10) major player countries of course supported by refs. Just let me know when you're ready for me to post what should be my last one (I think?) for this patch season. I believe you posted last year at the end of FEB. to cut it off for the 5.5 patch, will use that as my timeline unless you tell me otherwise. I'll still check in here for when you get to the list as just posted for any questions you might have. Going to "copy" these and put them into their appropriate threads and catch up on some news while I'm in here. By the way fully supported the move you made in the artillery area to open slots and you know how I feel about arty. THANKS to everyone for the time and effort you all put into making the game more accurate, streamlined and better to play even the folks I might make mumble things under their breath!?! Everyone take care! My computer is asking me "Do you want to play a game?" still good movie tag line! Don no responce needed TAKE CARE.


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Old December 1st, 2010, 02:37 AM

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No reply needed however, wanted to fix this before you got to it too prevent any rework. Left out Coax 7.62mm on ADNAN 50 and 12.7mm on ADNAN AGL plus changed manning due to the SACO 40mm turret.
A3. MALAYSIA/ADNAN 50 APC (Added 50 to avoid confusion w/A4)/JAN 2003/C2 P11/Turreted 12.7mm 2K Rds & Coax 7.62mm UKN Rds./
A4. MALAYSIA/ADNAN AGL APC/JAN 2003/C3 P9/Turreted SAGO MK19 Mod 3 AGL 40 Rds & Coax 12.7mm UKN Rds./

You can in Post #31 in the picture see the MG on the right side of the turret looking at the pic ADNAN AGL. Sorry for the omission again just wanted to prevent rework. I'm done here (Regarding the last submission.) except for Q&A as needed. SNAFU! God Bless Me!?! Darn Cold!!


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Old January 23rd, 2011, 08:49 PM

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Patch Post #3 Part 1 & 2 and last for the 2010 Input Campaign. Maintaining "number" item order for topics continued from last two Patch posts on topics previously covered. Again using fielded dates for these units. End dates are 2020 unless otherwise noted. All post references unless otherwise noted, are within the subject discussed below.
In many ways this is more of a "living document" you'll see breaks where I've stopped and started, and information has changed within even a span of a day or less, but this is to be as accurate as possible and to give Don the best info possible to make his decision on a particular item getting in, put off pending further info or not getting in at all. To make my case stronger I was aggressive in trying to find units to be deleted, as trade offs to getting something in, and to clear out some of the last of the developmental units or programs that never came to be fielded for one reason or another. Also in the Helo area I went for economy in providing an all around solution to meet all threats in the field and keep them flying throughout by use of ammo resources within the game. This avoids having 3 or versions of the same helos, we're just running out of slots too fast, and as long as Don and Andy can keep this going, we're still looking at 8 to 9 yrs. worth of patches before we've reached the end of this game. Helos is one area, planes are a little tougher and as are tanks but their might be room for some economy there as well. Other areas develop much slower and are better managed for the foreseeable future. What I see for this is priority to deletions, changes, mods and if time allows the additions this is more then fair as I know where the boss(es) are in the patch. So for next year; deal with left over units that didn't get in, get answers I have to questions of implementation for AC-130U SPOOKY, B-52, A-10 and APACHE that have had major electronic upgrades recently, my refs are ready and have been. Also looking at ARMA 4x4, MATADOR that just recently had buyers and TEJAS, these all will lead off the 2011 Input Campaign. Finally to Don for allowing me to finish this and to everyone (And some know who you are.) that have supported my efforts, provided advice and kept "my head in the game", and most importantly to those that have taken the time out of their busy days too read what I've posted. THANKS! Don I'll answer questions dealing with this list as needed on this thread. Submitting this as parts 1 through 3 for picture management and character issues.

Don might have to rethink the MBT Item A6:
CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M/RESET/Came across this article on 6 DEC 2010. The Leopard 2A6M tanks Canada leased from Germany are being returned (Now) after all. This might change the complexion of the Q&A discussions we had concerning this issue. This was on the first patch page submitted.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news102921.html The last line says it all where things are headed, but that's for next year I would think.
UPDATE ALERT 12/07/10! I went back to the Canadian source I put in Post #21 of this thread. But I also want to draw your attention to Post #22. Here are the two points gleamed from this source.
1. Keep the LEOPARD 2A6M: 40 of the 100 Dutch tanks will be RESET to this standard therefore the return to Germany of the 2A6M tanks is a wash. 20-40 will be upgraded to 2A4M standard above what they got from the Germans. The rest will fall into utility conversions.
2. Might have to reconsider adding the 2A4M as it does have the 120mm SB L44 vice the L55 gun as I thought in Post#22. So we're left with a LEO 2A4M with the protection level of a LEO 2A6M with an improved 120mm L44 main gun.
http://casr.ca/doc-news-kmw-leopard-2a4m.htm Para 1 will also link you to the Dutch tank deal within the site if desired.

C10. Change: UKRAINE/OPLOT/UNITS 061-063/Add 9K119M REFLEX (NATO Des. AT-11 SNIPER-B) 6 Missiles. Noticed from refs that ATGW load has no affect on conventional ammo loads from refs. Must be due to size that addition of these doesn’t take up that much room as compared to conventional rounds. Am under the impression from further looking into other countries platforms this is just about a "universal truth" across the board.
See bottom of the page. And yes I saw the number if it is 100% correct, however six works as that's what's in the game now for the T-84 tanks as well. Changing the number to 5 missiles would not only affect the Ukrainian tanks but would spill over to Russian ones (T-80 and
T-90 series.) as well and any one who uses them outside the Ukraine and Russia that has the ATGW. I say Das Vydonia to a couple of rolls of toilet paper and keep the six packs instead!

APC Development...Continued.

M1. MOD: TURKEY/ACV-S IFV 30/JAN 2008/C3 P1O/30mm w/800Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds./ Originally when I entered this I thought to put it in as an "Add", however after thinking about it for a few days I've changed it to a "Mod" because the refs though from solid sources leave me with some doubt as to them serving with Turkey even after watching a FNSS production line video of them being built. I might be conservative here but my confidence level is at 85%+ that Turkey has them. This applies too M2 below as well.

M2. MOD: TURKEY/ACV-S IFV 25 ATGW/JAN 2008/C3 P10/25mm w/900Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds also 8 TOW B ATGW/ As noted above.

A12. ADD: SAUDI ARABIA/ACV-S IFV 30/JUN 2007/C3 P10/30mm w/800Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds/ This is definite though it was only a small order of 10 - 20 units.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning21.html Even within the Turkish Army these represent only a total of about 200 out of 2,200 that were converted from the M113A units Turkey has. I would feel these would've been "up protected" as shown by this ref. A12 was done so without a doubt against 30mm Rds with Spall liners.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning16.html ACV-S IFV 30 and 25 ATGW variants.
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A13. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 12.7/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO 12.7mm w/1.5KRds/ These APCs are to replace the aging fleet of the EE-11 Erutu class APCs developed in the mid 70's. Will address some of the types to be fielded here. Brazil will be buying these in the top of the line configuration for all types at the 30mm protection level, fully amphibious (There's a no brainier look at the geography.) and with all the bells and whistles in the sensor and targeting department this is to include the UT-30 turret and others. Brazil’s economy is the fastest growing one in the western hemisphere and in the top five in the world. They are also sitting on well over of a trillion dollars worth of new oil off the coast making it the second largest oil field in the world (Ref. 60 Minutes.), you can afford to modernize especially when your neighbor is getting billions in military aid from Russia. Will try to track down actual Brazilian name for the type (They like using names of snakes.) but, will improvise name with weapon type carried for now to get these in as this is a done deal. All refs will be added at the end.

A14. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR UT30/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO UT-30 30mm w/250KRds & Coax 7.62mm w/1KRds/ This is a highly versatile turret developed by ELBIT Systems. Per the refs this turret has no affect on crew or carry as most systems similar to this also have none as well. Ref. for this turret provided here also to include an excellent article on APC turrets as well.

A15. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR UT-30AT/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO UT-30 30mm w/250Rds w/Coax 7.62mm w/1KRds and 4 SPIKE ATGW/ The Brazilian Marines are to get this weapons version also, as well as the Army with the following exception, the Marine VBTP-MR UT-30AT will be an 8x8, increase carry to C12 for the Marine 8x8 and this could be low, also again as with all types it'll be fully amphibious.
http://elbitsystems.com/Elbitmain/files/UT30.PDF Again this is being bought fully equipped and protected. Adjust size as needed as set by your system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4a8ODHNbuA A short video 1:41 in length worth watching and it might help in modeling it.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2059.html This and the next deal with the contract awarded for the UT-30 RO turrets.

And as I did with Malaysia’s ADNAN, I will include the SP mortar units here as well as follows:

A16. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 81M/JUN 2012/C4/81mm w/114Rds & RO 12.7mm w/2KRds.

A17. ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 120M/JUN 2012/C5/120mm w/70Rds & RO 12.7mm w/2KRds.

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After a delay of a couple of years, Sweden will finally get its PATRIA AMV's. As a reminder I'm only interested in when units are fielded (or operationally assigned to units etc.), so yes I noted that deliveries of the first batch of AMV's will be completed near years end 2013 however, do take note it also states they will be operational by early 2014. As much of this was in the works before the court challenges and allowing for Swedish efficiencies that's why I'm recommending JAN 2014 which I have on good authority is well within the 6 month "swag (or wag)" of not changing dates. This was just a reminder for those "newer to the site".
A18. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV APC/JAN 2014/C2 P10/RO PML 127 OWS 12.7mm turret w/2.5KRds.

A19. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV IFV/JAN 2014/C3 P9/LAV 30 turret w/ATK BUSHMASTER 30mm w/175 Rds & coax 7.62mm w/2KRds./

A20. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV ATGW/JAN 2014/C3 P8/ LAV 30 turret w/ATK BUSHMASTER 30mm w/175 Rds & coax 7.62mm w/2KRds. and 8 TOW ATGW/

As with the VBTP-MR 81mm & 120mm above will list the AMV AMOS below as the AMV is a new platform for Sweden. All will be transferred to the SPA/SPAA section further on to keep things in order.

A21. ADD: SWEDEN/AMV ATMOS/JAN 2014/C3/AMOS Twin Barreled Turreted 120mm Mortar w/56Rds (Split the difference of 50-60Rds.), 12.7mm w/1.2KRds & 7.62mm w/2KRds.
About the
LAV-30 Turret.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2219.html About the LAV-30 TOW Turret.
http://www.gdls.com/classic/systems/lav30-tow.html About the LAV-30 TOW Turret from the manufacturer.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product665.html About the BUSHMASTER II.
First article that covers the whole project etc.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20055/ Legal.

M3. MOD: USA/BRADLEY/JAN 2011/UNITS 006, 305-306, 309, 655, 664, 666 (Yikes!) & 668/ As in the game add a new tech ERA/ARA package and upgrades below.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...835/#more-2835 Please note APR 06 '09 & SEP 22 '08 as these affect the above units. Others in the game were out of service by 2008 - 2009. But the big issue here is the ARA protection and "belly steel" for IED protection (I don't know what their 0 - 6 protection level is.).
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-02451/ This is one of those seek peek articles but gets what you need though, and it is definitely one of the most advanced and new ERA/ARA packages out there.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20012/ This covers the ERA upgrade.
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M4. MOD: ISRAEL/NAMER/JUN 2011/UNITS 087 & 088/ As in the game add HITFIST APS with 4 shots (From 2 launchers.) Similar to the TROPHY system it has been developed by the IDF for its APCs. Of note is the fact that it has been tested by the U.S. Army this past fall as well. With the NAMER to be manufactured in the U.S. soon, I won't think it too long before we see these systems on our armor as well. Not unusual between the two allies as Israel was the only country to be considered to get the AH-X (See HELO section.) outside the U.S. had the program succeeded.
This also covers the U.S. test.
http://www.defense-update.com/featur...09062010.html# In the 3rd Para. discussing IRON FIST is where it mentions the two twin launchers to be mounted on the NAMER.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...94&c=FEA&s=SPE Discusses how the TROPHY and IRON FIST systems work at bottom.
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DELETE: USMC/EFV/UNIT 189/ Was the USMC program cut by the SECDEF on 06 Jan. 2011 in an effort to reduce the defense budget by now 80 - 90 Billion dollars btwn now and FY 2016. The CORPS will reconsider its AMPHIB options, this again as the EFV gets cancelled on the 40th anniversary of their current ones. I will provide posts for this as it was just recently done last week.
Posts: Page 9; #83, #85 & #86.

This is a bonus that was helpful with some of the above.
[url]http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/68973-briefing-stick-your-guns.html[/url] This would be an excellent source to check against APCs current in the game or for you game designers. The article is legitimate from Jane’s as I've read from the author and have read a small portion of it from the "free view" section. Nice that somebody can afford the subscription price!?! Well CINCLANTHOME wouldn't authorize the expenditure anyway.

MRAPS and a couple...

A1. ADD: ROMANIA/MAXXPRO DASH/JAN 2011/C3 (Including gunner.)
P6/Turreted 12.7mm w/2KRds/
They will receive 60 units on loan from the U.S., 20 of which are brand new with 40 refurbished and upgraded to meet the newer specs of units now operating in theater by the U.S. These are the better protected more maneuverable U.S. versions since initially deployed in
2007. Expect Romania to keep these as a "thank you" for serving with the coalition. First units were delivered in Oct 2010 (8) they should have most by now and be trained in their use as well that's why JAN 2011.

A2. ADD: NIGERIA & UN/GILA/JAN 2008/C2 P10/Turreted 12.7mm UKN Rds & RM 7.62mm UKN Rds./As noted by the post this again is a CASSPRI on steroids with, much better all around armor protection and mobility. DENAL in fact this past summer has just released the new CASSPIR 4 to compete against the GILA. Also the company website lists that seven countries operate the GILA if I use the AU countries that have supplied troops to DARFUR they would be Cameroon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Malawi, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Tanzania and Uganda. Though on the post I gave my best guess (Angola and Kenya had troops there at the time of the refs as posted.) of who else has them I can't find anything concrete on them or of any listed above except Nigeria. Only Senegal "reappears" from the first post to now. Nigeria and UN (Canada selected these over the CASSPIR and others in the procurement process for UNADIM.) are the only ones I can say I'm sure of.
Post: Page 8; #75 for pictures as well.

A3. ADD: UK/OCELOT/JUN 2011/P6/RM 12.7mm w/2KRds/The problem here is that a team of six get to and fight from this vehicle, there is no crew per say, I don't know how you can make this work? Won the UK MOD completion in the LPPV program beating out the Supacat SPV 400.
Posts: Page 7; #68, Page 8; #79 and Page 9; #84 for pictures as well.


D1. DELETE: ITALY/MEADS/UNIT 182/The reason for deletion is that the MEADS is about 4 - 5 years out from being fielded providing there are no delays in testing and as follows. This program is under so much pressure that if any one of the three legs holding this up falters (U.S. 58%, Germany 25% & Italy 17% of funding.) this program is probably done. As I noted in the "JET..." thread it was not mentioned in the JAN 06, 2011 speech by SECDEF Gates as one of the programs to be cut, also no news out of the other two partners of any move thus far to do likewise with their defense budgets even though they are making major cuts as well in defense spending. Lockheed Martin is also pushing hard against it (MEADS) as well with the major success seen in the PATRIOT (Upgrade.) PAC 3 missile. But this could survive all because of the cancellation guarantees that could run into the 100's of millions of dollars at the point of termination in development. It should be noted however that the program has been very successful to date. This will allow for a mobile platform to be properly modeled as this is NOT a static system! Also each mobile launcher will have a dedicated ammo unit paired with it, and will actually be bought as a unit in this manner such as the ARCHER SPA System and the USA with PALIDAN.
[url]http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/FMTV-2010-2015-Oshkosh-Wins-The-Re-Compete-05744/#more-5744[/url] FMTV based on this to be the new launcher, supply and component platform.
Posts: Page 1; #6 & #7, Page 2; #11, #12, #15, #17 & #18.

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D2. DELETE: USA & USMC/HUMRAAM/UNITS 816 & 513 Respectively/Program cancelled on 06 Jan. 2011 by SECDEF Gates.
SECDEF Gates kills SLAMRAAM & EFV etc.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1f966&_cview=0 Dated: 02 Sep. 2010 @ 1041. This is to show how long ago and fast a program dies. This document is the final solicitation notice to incorporate the FMTV as the launcher platform and complete the testing to final system operational demonstration of SLAMRAAM as it goes into low rate production.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1415a&_cview=0 Dead. Dated: 22 Sep. 2010 @ 0909.
Posts: Page 2; #16 & #20.

S-400 TRIUMF Page 4 TO&EsC1.

C1. CHANGE: RUSSIA/S-400 TRIUMF/UNIT 295/Fielded date to JAN 2010 vice JAN 2007/This program suffered from delays as well and I suspect was entered based on developmental data. This is mounted on a mobile platform as well as it should be. Will transfer this info to the SPA/SPAA thread when done here.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/s-400.htm As of 2007 it was not deployed due to technical issues. Some reported it had but as this touches on it there was confusion in the west between the S-400 and an upgraded version of the S-300 early on as well.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/12012/ S-400completes trials in Nov. 2009 as reported in Dec. 2009.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/14918/ This article would almost suggest a later date then I have given above based on production and combat launch testing to not have been completed/or started until this past fall. I still like the date above as Post #1 supports this as well as the AUSA (Which in the updated section supports Post #1.) source I used recently in the Jet... thread.
Post: Page 1; #1.
End Part 1


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Old January 23rd, 2011, 10:03 PM

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Fallout Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.

Part 2 Start for 2010/2011 patch input.

SP & SPAA...

A1. ADD: NORWAY/ARCHER/JAN 2012/Per SWEDISH UNIT 416/This is a joint venture between the two countries. First operational units not due for delivery until OCT. 2011 again allowing for small delays and training w/JAN 2012. It should be noted as in the Post below; these are manufactured and sold with a matching ammo carrier as shown in the pictures of the post. Can maybe this be addressed at a later time within the game?
Don't know what the technical issues are to do this.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...142/#more-5142 Does the M 151 RO MG system need to be added? See "ARCHER SYSTEM" Para with pic.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/9306/ Covers joint deal w/delivery date.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/8490/ Announces prototype is ready. See related article links at bottom.
See links at bottom of article.

C1. CHANGE: SWEDEN/ARCHER/Fielded date of JAN 2012 vice JAN 2010/ See notes and refs for A1 above.
Posts: Page 1; #5 & #6 and Page 2; #16.

C2. CHANGE: FINLAND/AMV AMOS/UNITS 335 & 348/Fielded dates to JAN 2013 vice Jan 2008. /The below source though not complete does start to mention contract issues. The Jan 2008 date was about the time the Swedes were having their legal issues with PATRIA as mentioned above in the APC section for the AMV. Also it's my understanding that the AMOS and NEMO systems are from the start capable of direct fire support out of the box, wouldn't it make sense to delete FINNISH UNIT 335 based on that and ensure that the SWEDISH AMV AMOS is a copy of FINNISH UNIT 348? Note dates are only 1yr. apart.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-Turret-06692/ Note it says "initial order" for the AMOS.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20563/ Specifically mentions that amendments were made to the original 2003 contract.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news105201.html Again as above.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/propo...e_news_48.html Again as above. I'm convinced that issues with the contract existed and I'm willing to bet it had to do with PATRIAs legal issues in Sweden as part of the cause in the delay as well. If you go to the equipment side of a couple of the above sites they support what's in the OOB however those obviously have not been updated to reflect the news side of these sites from this past Dec. of 2010 when PATRIA released the press notice.

A2. ADD: UAE (GULF STATES an issue for later.) & SYRIA/PANTSYR-S1/JAN 2007 & JAN 2009 respectively./As per RUSSIAN UNIT 414./These are among the six countries mentioned in the refs to have received these SPAA units, but are the only ones I can find firm dates for. The other countries are India sometime around mid 2007 - 2008, Algeria in ~2008 and Jordon & Libya ~2010 late - 2011 late. I will find what I can but this will be for next year.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsf...ms_russia.html About Algeria and Libya.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/pantsyr/ Please don't mix up contract dates with delivery dates. Note country and expected users mentioned.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...le_uk/pantsir_ pantsyr_s1_sa-22_greyhound_air_defense_missile_gun_system_techni cal_data_sheet_specification.html See country user list bottom.
http://defense-update.com/products/p/pantsir.htm Mentions India in the last line. Will make contact with BROADSWORD site to see if I can't get some independent confirmation on this.
Post: Page 1; #4 & #8.

M1. MOD: RUSSIA/PANTSYR-S1/UNIT 414/Name as shown vice S1 PANTSYR/Fielded date from JAN 2008 to JAN 2010./ This is a highly capable SPAA unit that Russia exported before they made it operational for their Air Force. Per the post below they are using the more advanced SA-22 discussed. Name change based on refs. and the headache I got trying to verify status in the game, the last is the funny part!?!
http://www.armyrecognition.com/newsf...greyhound.html Russian operational induction in 2010.

M2. MOD: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 54/Change end date to JUN 2004 vice DEC 2001/Modify TI/GSR to 45 and EW to 5 as Unit 50 currently shows and possible 25mm ammo load maybe increased?/Both units shared the same BLAZER turret. What really hurt this unit was its low production rate with only 17 total units made. Spares (electronic components) were already very expensive and made more so by the limited numbers. By permission I work with retired USMC GySGT. C. Vanderaa who was a gunner in the test unit evaluating the LAV-AD and he informed me there was one circuit board they had that cost just over 100K, ONE CARD. But he loved them just as any who served with them or were supported by them as they were used for fire support during the spring and summer of 2003 during OIF. Check the blogs for yourself. The 25mm is the same as used by the USMC Harriers and AC-130U SPOOKY w/APDU rounds as well I understand. UPDATE 01/20/2011: Relieved the "Gunny" and he commented the following 1) BLAZER turret underwent only minor changes. 2) Explained "Vision" to him in game terms, he noted the systems FC and Vision were very sensitive and far reaching because one of the parameters in the design had to be the very fast and accurate response to "pop up" helos at close in and extended ranges. It was simply a matter of who shoots first wins. So ECM, FC & TI/GSR were very advanced for the time. 3) APDU were the preferred rounds carried on board to meet APC etc. threat, and he specifically mentioned to have the ability to take down the HINDS quickly if encountered and to take out fortified positions and anyone defending them which was very adept in during OIF. He got to see them in action in OIF and they were glad to have them. Apparently according to him they exceeded expectations locally in the ground support role. Ammo is an issue to be addressed based on this and below.
http://www.marines.mil/news/messages...es03top55.aspx Note RMKS/1.C. the 4th LAV (AD) Platoon was the HQ Platoon. This message is dated on 241500Z NOV 2003, almost two months into FY04; this is why I chose JUN 2004 vice APR 2004 (Mid point for FY04.). The latest date possible would be SEP 2004as OCT 2004 would start FY 2005.
Capt. Whit Houston’s site, the last CO to command the LAV-AD Company when they cased their colors.
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/jasonm/ Sgt. Jason Millett’s site, he served with Capt. Whit Houston during his tour as CO prior to, and during OIF until the unit cased its colors. You'll need a little patience to download his video but for those of you that served they'll see those kids weren't much different then when we did our time, enough said there. Towards the end are pictures of the 25mm rounds I mentioned above, if not APDU, they are certainly a modified AP round of some sort, I'll check with the "Gunny". Also a great song by "Three Doors Down" it sets the tone for the video and situation and reminds me of my own long deployments away from family but still surrounded by "family" under the waves.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ems/gau-12.htm To support the above and APDU rounds, though on the HARRIER, I understand this was standard for the LAV-AD for the same purpose against air and light armored targets. Might this affect the current ammo penetration value given for the unit?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...v-ad-specs.htm Note ammo load (out) is this an issue for the game unit?
http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Rifts/Ri...ge/GAW_LAV.htm From some game site (UKN) but the info on the technical side (Non game.) is correct. Might be of some value for you developers as well.
http://www.generaldynamics.com/ No reference to the LAV-AD off the current site in the Land Systems section.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM82Vuq3PdM LAV-AD combat night action during OIF note comment section. Play it loud and in full screen and thank God you’re not on the receiving end! Short about 1 mike. Also answers the wheel spin effect in some pictures, that was brought up in the MRAP thread I believe, in the second comment called "stroboscopic effect”, who says we can't learn something new once in awhile?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooFmPUt6aA General Dynamics Aerospace video on the LAV-AD BLAZER in action. Short about 1.5 mikes.
Added new pics because the one shown in the game is the export version with the MINSTREL System:
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D1. DELETE: USMC/LAV-AD BLAZER/UNIT 50/ The LAV-AD BLAZER was taken out of service as the official USMC document will show above in M2 among other refs as well. This version I trust shows it with the STRINGER BLK II missile which had its funding stripped and was cancelled in 2002, it never was fielded. LAV-AD was eventually replaced by the HUMVEE AVENGER platform.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/blazer/ Supports info above in M2 as well.

Helo News game...

I'm going to start this a little differently see APC Page 7 Post #69 for a moment, read it carefully please, then carry on. In hindsight maybe I should've polled the issue, the only response I got came from Suhiir on Post #70. But I'm taking my shot here based on the fact no one took the opportunity to "kill" the idea since I posted it, so here goes. This applies to the USMC AH-1Z, USA AH-64D BIII and Turkish T129 AKAK for now as they are new platforms. Multi-missioned and armed in one package as normally equipped configuration per the refs and pictures offered.

Here's comes the "rub" as discussed above. As this is a work in progress the "rub" is where I left off a day ago. I thought, I would find more to delete here but there's less. I have had to make some guesses here as the USMC AH-1 helos never got designated past I believe it was the AH-1T (Only one if I remember.) in the game. So I offer the following solution. The AH-1W came into service in 1985, I'm sorry but I didn't have time to track them all down and I had to check them all manually to find 1. Which were the latest AH-1W helos to establish the "bridge" to the AH-1Z? & 2. Were the AH-1Z helos entered based on the projected earlier delivery dates? I hope I did, here goes:

A1. ADD: USMC/AH-1Z VIPER/JUN 2011/C2/M 179 20mm AG w/750Rds, 8 AGM-114L LONGBOW HELLFIRE ATGW, 2 x 2.75 Laser Guided AFPKWS (LGA) 19 Shot Rocket Pods and (2 AIM-9 SIDEWINDER AAM dropping these as I now see more clearly the game limited weapons slot issue with the helos.)/ Picture below shows this configuration. Also the USA doesn't get the LGA as they dropped the program. The PDF Pocket Guide is a must here in the Protection and TSS sections in particular. Armor protection up to 23mm rounds in the rotor section and it keeps flying is substantial as an example. Recommend that TI/GSR 60, increase FC and survivability such as IR dampeners were greatly improved and armored engine surfaces (AH-1W as depicted by M3 has been modified to this standard as well.) as compared to
UNITS 502 & 503 below.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18440/ Bell announces that on Sep. 24, 2010 NAVAIR deems the AH-1Z operationally ready.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20163/ Approved for full rate production Nov. 28, 2010.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20437/ As above from Bell.
http://www.bellhelicopter.textron.co.../bellAH-1Z.cfm Overview and I highly recommended checking out the PDF Pocket Guide in upper left for more detailed info.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/supcobra/ Excellent info on the AH-1W and AH-1Z. This needs addressing especially as these are tied into the TSS system above and with the AH-1W as well, just a recommendation anyway.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...d-phase-02193/ Deployed on AH-1W helos now. USA dropped the program the USN was smarter here to finish it, and who says we don't take care of the Marines!?! Well sometimes anyway!?!
http://www.deagel.com/news/APKWS-Gui...000007266.aspx Production ready. Accuracy to within 0.75M vice I believe the unguided accuracy was between 5M to 10M.
http://www.defense-update.com/newsca...009042010.html As above.
Posts: APC Thread Page 7; #69, Page 8; #70; #71 & 75. USMC Aircraft... thread (All threads page 3) Post #5. From this thread Page 1; Posts #1; #4; #7 &9.

Believe these to be the AH-1W and AH-1Z.

M1. MOD: USMC/AH-1/Use UNIT 502 to model the above A1.

D1. DELETE: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 503/As noted above.

M2. MOD: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 501/AH-1 to AH-1W/End date from DEC 2005 to DEC 2010./

M3. MOD: USMC/AH-1/UNIT 500/AH-1 to AH-1W/JAN 2010 to DEC 2020 vice JAN 2000 to DEC 2005/ This is the bridge unit to the AH-1Z as an improved AH-1W, REMEMBER as noted in the refs above most airframes are going to come from the AH-1W. These are improved above the levels as they exist in the game now and slightly "dumbed down" from the AH-1Z helos. Weapons same, TI/GSR 45-50, FC+, Protection etc. Though some improvements have started as noted not will be included until these are sent to be finally fully refitted and RESET to the AH-1Z thus effectively ending the AH-1W series after 2020.
AH-1W target system upgrade.
Overview of the HELLFIRE "LONGBOW".
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A2. ADD: TURKEY/T129/JUN 2012/C2/Vulcan TM197B 20mm w/500Rds, 8 SPIKE ER ATGW, 2 x 2.75 Laser Guided CIRIT 19 Shot Rocket Pods/ Based on the (is) Italian A129I Helo. The A129"MONGOOSE" has been in service since 1989 and is battle tested most recently in IRAQ. It was chosen over the SAAF (DENAL) AH-2A ROOIVALK in the final round of completion. Turkey had to reopen it's AH Helo competition over the long delays in the AH-1Z program. Turkey opted out of that program in 2004, which was the only export customer for the AH-1Z.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-02397/ Full program background.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/agusta/ Same as above with more technical info.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/690/ Additional order.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/10114/ Maiden flight.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/7...s_eng.php?id=5 About Turkish CIRIT.
http://www.roketsan.com.tr/programs_eng.php?id=6 About Turkish ATGW LARAT.
http://www.military-today.com/helico...9_mangusta.htm First of its kind in Europe.
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D2. DELETE: TURKEY/AH-1Z/UNITS 484 - 487/ As noted above.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...raft/ah-1z.htm Last section covers the above.

A3. ADD: USA/APACHE AH-64D BIII/JAN 2012/C2/30mm w/1.2KRds, 8 AGM-114L LONGBOW HELLFIRE ATGW & 2 x 2.75 AFPKWS 19 Shot Rocket Pods picture provided./The Block III takes the APACHE certainly to and beyond the levels of the AH-X COMANCHE except in the area of stealth. The advances in electronics and bandwidth are far beyond what was achieved in the 6 - 8 years since the AH-X program was killed. The debate has already started (Some a handful of years ago.) as to which is better the AH-64D Block III or AH-1Z. I'd say it's too close to call. What I don't doubt is when they come on line, 1 will be #1 and the other #2 and #2 isn't so bad when you're on the same side.
Poor mans preview.
Approves low rate production.
http://www.deagel.com/Anti-Armor-Wea...001111006.aspx Overview of the HELLFIRE "LONGBOW".
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...461/#more-6461 Details some of the sensor issues I brought up above.
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So now we say goodbye too:

D3. DELETE: USA/AH-X (COMANCHE)/UNITS 274 - 276 & 916/As noted above.


End Part 2

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