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  #41  
Old December 8th, 2021, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Poland OOB

Here best photos of Żubr MRAP vehicle which I found on AMZ Kutno official page ZubrP is AA version http://amz.pl/pojazdy-wojskowe/opancerzone/zubr-p/

And here only drawings of this vehicle found primitive but best what we have

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  #42  
Old December 9th, 2021, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Poland OOB

http://www.military-today.com/apc/zubr_mrap.htm
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  #43  
Old December 9th, 2021, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Poland OOB

So according to AMZ Kutno website and wikipedia https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMZ_%C5%BBubr they are now two versions

and also this article https://milmag.pl/mspo-2021-system-o...od-pit-radwar/

Żubr P Poprad (AA version)
- with Grom rockets (older variant)
- new Piorun AA rockets (new production vehicles)
Don't know if all were modernised all two version existing together probably this second and all will be modernised to Piorun when older rockets will be used
- variant with radar Soła & Bystra
- WG-35 FOO vehicle for battery of Poprad

Żubr WD (command variant)

Żubr MMSR (with radio-location device N-26A/MMSR)

Here how Poprad unit my looks like in organisation
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  #44  
Old December 11th, 2021, 07:35 PM

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Default Re: Poland OOB

Misc.

66 Heavy Truck - typical US truck picture, strange-looking for Poland, should be replaced eg. with 29168 (Zil-131) or better 29388 (modern Polish Jelcz)

77 HMMWV Trynka AT - there are no variants with Spike and 12.7mm MG. There are used M1045 with Spike only, named Tumak-5, not Trynka https://modelwork.pl/topic/11777-hmm...ojsku-polskim/
Possibly uncovered 98 UKM-2000 CMG could be mounted in need, although there is no such mention...

580, 583 HMMWV Trynka - Trynka was only proposed 12.7mm MG variant. It should be renamed Tumak with 98 UKM-2000 CMG

921 HMMWV [utility vehicle] - utility variant is not armed (especially old SGM MG is not used).


158,159,951 F-16c Jastrzab - F-16C Jastrzab would be better and consistent.


191 Hibneryt-P SPAA - its ZU-23-2 gun should be updated according to 619 ZU-23-2E(K) standard (FC=20, RF=10), with night vision. Used already from around 10/07 (now 1/08)

Ordinary unarmoured 200 Hibneryt also used better ZU-23-2K guns when they were available, but I think that Hibneryt-P would be enough.

581 Irbis - not accepted, sole prototype.


545 Light Truck - picture looks strange for Poland. In fact there were no 4x4 light trucks for 12 men used in Poland (only jeeps or medium trucks). Anyway, since it is used among others to tow Vasilek mortars in the game, the photo could be changed to GAZ-66 32174, used in a small number, and made available from 1/84.


584 Dzik 2 - (class Gun APC Wheeled) - it isn't used in infantry recce units, but exclusively as APC for Military Gendarmerie Special Units (Oddziały Specjalne Żandarmerii Wojskowej), created around the same time. Carry capacity is up to 8. Better photo with ZW markings might be Pm29528. It seems they were used only until around 2015. Nicknamed Dzik-2 'Gucio'. Could be class 23 APC Wheel, which is free in this period.

There could be created such special unit (class Police?), named eg. OS ZW Squad or SpecZW Squad (or section). They were used among others in some peacekeeping duties in Africa. I guess the squad should be around 6 men, armament is mostly #026 wz.96 Beryl SMG and MP-5. I don't know if LMGs are used as a standard.
Photos are eg https://d-art.ppstatic.pl/kadry/k/r/...6b_o_large.jpg https://zbrojni.blob.core.windows.ne...2/Images/18756
https://zoom.mon.gov.pl/static/zdjecia/IMG_8026.jpg
https://static.polityka.pl/_resource...319e_f1400x900
Picture 29238 of Grom special unit could fit eventually

From 2016 they use Plasan SandCat, named Szop in Poland (carry 8) https://www.defence24.pl/plasan-sand...erii-wojskowej

Also heavy M1151 HMMWV with FRAG armour were used by OS ZW from 2009, with UKM-2000 CMG.
https://modelwork.pl/topic/11777-hmm...ojsku-polskim/

Such HMMWV with FRAG kit were also used as a scout vehicle in Iraq, but I don't know since when (some 2007?)


699 GAZ-46 MAW - SMG MG was never mounted upon GAZ-46, in any country. It had no mountings for any MG.

703 BAV-485 6x6 - as a rule it wasn't armed (there could be the second entry). Polish name was BAW (number wasn't used, and 6x6 is redundant) (btw, number is redundant also in other countries, because its Russian army name was BAV, and factory name ZiL-485)


723 Tarpan Rys - in fact Honker Rys - it was experimental proposal of armed utility car with very limited use in Poland. It's better to replace it with Honker Skorpion, keeping the same similar picture - used in Iraq from 10/04, lightly armoured (sides, maybe lower front, gunner's front), armed with 98 UKM-2000 CMG

726 Zubr - not accepted yet as a scout vehicle. Command vehicle Zubr-WD has been proposed for several years, but I don't know how is its status - few are used at best, and rather unarmed. May be preserved for future use.

752 ODS-LST (landing ship) - armament was #96 30 mm gun, not 14.5mm MG.

843 BTR-60PB - in Poland they were not numerous, and used only by the Police - in case of mobilization they could be used by the Police (#178 class). It concerns only formation 390. They would not be used by the army, especially contemporary WOT light infantry. Only few survived in police service by now.

920 Tarpan Honker [utility vehicle] - name should be just Honker. Picture is Mercedes - could be 29331, 29380, 29386.
It should not be armed apart from special patrol vehicles (see Skorpion above).

--
From 2005 there was adopted 12.7mm Tor sniper rifle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKW_Wilk

That's all as for now.
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  #45  
Old December 20th, 2021, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Poland OOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post
Misc.

[b]77 HMMWV Trynka AT
Pibwl mentioned about about different variants of HMMWV in Polish army so I made some research and forged this into proposition of add-on to Polish OOB.

So what is proposed here

I proposing put this in slots 841 to 869 they are free in spob002

Tarpan Skorpion - polish very light armoured car used as a utility and patrol car especially in Iraq after 2003 and now inside Poland
Lbms Pm29660.lbm&Pm29660.lbm

Tarpan Honker - new lbm Pm29662.lbm

PWA Aero - New polish car for paratroopers first in Polish army which can land with use of transport palette which can be throw from transport aircraft's

LPU Zmija - variant of PWA aero for ground forces used as a patrol car

GAZ-69&UAZ-469&Tarpan Honker used by paratroopers since 1960 they can't land on parachute but were indented to be delivered by helicopters or transport planes.

M-ATV -MRAP from USA in use in Poland

Cougar HEV 4x4&Cougar MRAP&MaxxPro 4x4 they were on loan in Afghanistan equipped in polish weapons used by Polish contingent there after 2014 returned to US army.

HMMWV-MMG(+) also used in Afghanistan until 2009

HMMWV Tumak in different variants used in Poland now usually by Para force but also in other ground units and special forces.

Dana M2 modernised variant of Dana which now starts to be used.

Regina AWD FO - command vehicle for Krab unit

Rosomak AWD command variant also used in Afghanistan

Rosomak MMG simplifier variant with open MG also used in Afghanistan

K9PL Krab - New variant of Krab icon proposed in previous posts

Piorun Team - with nice lbm Pm29687.lbm



Also d'like to propose aircraft's in slots 924 to 949

F-35A JSF - Poland plan to buy them in 2024
Po-2 Kukuruznik - old slow biplane used as ersatz bomber and gunship during fights with post AK underground in 1950's
Yak-11&Yak18
TS-8 Bies - first polish modern coin aircraft build in local factories used for training and in case of war as ersatz AOP and ground atack
TS-11 Iskra - polish main coin small jet used for training and in case of war as a simple fighter-bomber equivalent of L-29 Delfin in rest of Warsaw Pact
PZL I-22 Iryda - ill fated successor of Iskra
M346 Bielik - Modern coin Jet in Polish army
PZL-130 Orlik - simple modern coin aircraft all variants TB TC TC2
PZL-230 Skorpion & TS-16B Grot two most advanced prototypes for indigenous coin fighter-bomber
Mi-6 - also used in Polish army but in small number 3x
Attached Files
File Type: zip OOB&Pictures.zip (1.69 MB, 31 views)
File Type: zip Icons.zip (26.0 KB, 33 views)

Last edited by blazejos; December 20th, 2021 at 06:00 PM..
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  #46  
Old January 7th, 2022, 05:53 PM

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Default Re: Poland OOB

I know this is rather not important, but for a sake of precision, an autocorrection according to more detailed article:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pibwl View Post

619 ZU-23-2E (improved AA gun with new CKE-1 sights of 2002, FC=20) - name should be ZU-23-2K in fact (E was a proposal with central battery fire control, while K have new individual collimator sights).
Now it has vision 40, while it should have 0 from the start, and 30 only from 2004 2005(CKE-1N sights with passive night vision). Vision 40 was obtained only in 2016 (CKE-1T sights with TI). These versions might be added.

95 ZUR23-2KG Jodek (Polish ZU-23 with Grom missiles of 2002) - FC should be 20 (now 15), like unit 619 of the same year with the same family sights CKE-2 (it can engage targets flying 500 m/s, comparing to 300 m/s in case of ZAP-23).
Vision should be 0, and 30 only from 2004 2005 (CKE-2N sights, as above)
Quote:
584 Dzik 2 - (class Gun APC Wheeled) - it isn't used in infantry recce units, but exclusively as APC for Military Gendarmerie Special Units (Oddziały Specjalne Żandarmerii Wojskowej), created around the same time...

There could be created such special unit (class Police?), named eg. OS ZW Squad or SpecZW Squad (or section). They were used among others in some peacekeeping duties in Africa. I guess the squad should be around 6 men, armament is mostly #026 wz.96 Beryl SMG and MP-5. ...

From 2016 they use Plasan SandCat, named Szop in Poland (carry 8)
I asked at Zandarmeria Wojskowa fb page, and a section has 8 man, currently armed with MP-5 and HK416.
Szop (SandCat) vehicles are armed with Mk 17 GL or 7.62mm minigun (some generic light MRV icon might be used, like 680 or 7718)
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  #47  
Old January 7th, 2022, 07:05 PM

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Arrow Re: Poland OOB

I've found great article about ATGM in Polish service until 1989, for the first time making wider usage of archives ("Nowa Technika Wojskowa" 2/2021) - some dates, which I tried to figure out years ago from partial sources, might be corrected:

30 BRDM Trzmiel - in 1962 there were only few launchers delivered for training, and they appeared in units from mid-63 (now 1/62). Withdrawn from service already by 12/78 (now 89) (stored until 1985, but not included in mobilization plans).

Would need a change in 082 SP-ATGM Platoon, as the first unit.

433 GAZ-69 Trzmiel - same as above, but delivered to units only in 1965. Rare vehicle, used only in airborne division.

24 BRDM-2 Malutka2 - delivered only on 1974 (now 73).
Wrong name - it's not Malutka-2, but Malutka-P (could be BRDM2 Malutka-P, just Malutka-P, or 9P133 Malutka-P)

33 BRDM Malutka (Malutka-M) - most probably only two launchers were used for training (other documents indicate 12 vehicles, but it is less reliable, and in 1971 only two are mentioned)

34 BRDM-2 Konkurs - used in units only from 1985 (now 84).
Probably withdrawn by now, but I have no precise info.

73 Fagot ATGM - appeared in units already in 1977 (now 79)

481 Para Fagot ATGM - not used by airborne forces at all at that time (I don't know how about later 490-491 units)

638 Metis Para ATGM - already withdrawn (around 2010?, after an advent of Spike)

794 WOT JavelinTeam - may be available even earlier [now 1/22] - in 6/21 first batch of operators completed training and first ones were fired.
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  #48  
Old January 11th, 2022, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: Poland OOB

Found interesting information

Rosomak APC without tower with small rotational MMG which I proposed earlier as a addition to Polish OOB is know in army as Rosomak M-3
They were used in Afganistan and Chad and after that returned to Poland. Here were put in storages and now are rebuild to new variant

Rosomak-S
which is transporter for two Spike-LR sets. Visible is that small tower will be removed and probably many changes inside


source about Rosomak M-3 https://zbiam.pl/wojsko-chce-kolejne-rosomaki-m-3/
source about rebuilding to Rosomak S https://zbiam.pl/przekazanie-kto-rosomak-s/

in December 2021 was mentioned that all ordered vehicles are already rebuild to version which is know by nickname "SpikeBus"
https://zbiam.pl/artykuly/nowe-rosomaki-s-juz-w-wojsku/


Here also photo of Polish airborne PWA Aero with mortar mentioned earlier which is in use by Polish paratroopers icon proposed in earlier post


Last edited by blazejos; January 11th, 2022 at 09:52 AM..
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  #49  
Old January 11th, 2022, 10:55 AM
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Exclamation Re: Poland OOB

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazejos View Post
Found interesting information

Rosomak APC without tower with small rotational MMG which I proposed earlier as a addition to Polish OOB is know in army as [b]Rosomak M-3
There has been a Rosomak APC named M3 with just an MMG in the OOB's for over a decade.

Just when exactly did you "propose" it's addition??

As for the Rosomak-S.......it would be nice to know if it's just a dedicated SP-ATGM vehicle or an APC with standard CC that just happens to have two Spike launchers......

OR

is it as the other article suggest it's just a APC modified slightly to accommodate 2 Spike teams

Quote:
38 armored personnel carriers for the transport of anti-tank teams of Spike-LR missile sets, i.e. Rosomak-S. They were delivered to several units of the Polish Army
if it has mounted launchers it's an SP-ATGM but this is a translation issue and it was designed to accommodate 2 spike teams then it's just an APC for use by 2 ATGM teams.

According to info I have found it is........
Quote:
Rosomak-S - Armored personnel carrier variant for two anti-tank teams armed with Spike anti-tank guided missile.
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  #50  
Old January 11th, 2022, 01:51 PM
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Fallout Re: Poland OOB

To the ROSOMAK-S yes, 2 SPIKE-LR teams.

However there just under 350 ROSOMAK armed with the Oto Melara 30 mm Hitfist-30P turret and it is my understanding those turrets will be modified to carry a 2xSPIKE-LR launcher. This was discussed as early as 2015 along with a new unmanned turret. Due to time constraints can't verify back fit status of the HITFIST turrets, unless I come across something while writing this.
https://defence24.com/rosomak-with-s...pcoming-months

The new ZSSW turret just completed testing this a remote operated turret that I gather could see production next year. I would expect TI/GSR 45 or maybe better.
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/l...test-programme
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/l...-the-specifics


Just is just overall good data...
Under Production and Variants of the next...
"...with the M3 APCs equipped with additional armor. In 2008 one Rosomak was attacked by the Taliban and thanks to its add-on armour it survived a frontal hit by a RPG-7 rocket, and fired back, the returned to base safely."
https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/m...TO-Rosomak.php

A VERY CLOSE READING of the following paras could prove "enlightening" from the next ref. they are Paras 4 - 7 this will simply act as a system of "checks and balances" to for manning levels, weapons and most importantly current game protection levels against the refs supplied.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/rosomak.htm

I got other important things to do before work (Late Post today, TG.) so I gotta go!!! Hope this helps, if any further assistance is needed let me know but, I'll need a day or two.

Regards,
Pat
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