Crystallurgy - in general and in DevNull [Archive]

Taera

July 26th, 2003, 04:07 AM

OK i want people to give me their advices... i want to play my next game as a crystallurgy race but i'd like to know if its an advantageous trait.

Of course i get cheap armor early on. But when faced with things like Psychic or Temporary, do Crystallurgy stand a chance?

I'd appreciate some tips for playing a crystallurgy race.

Taera

July 26th, 2003, 04:41 AM

im just thinking... if i manage to get to level 6+ of crystalline weapons i'm fine because Energy Dampener is a good gun, and so is HEM.

Is Crystalline Armor is a good piece of technology, overall?

oleg

July 26th, 2003, 05:08 AM

Build a ship with 6 CA. It will block 90 damage (6x15) per shot. But watch out for NSP and get phased shields ASAP, CA with normal shields is no use against PPB.

Taera

July 26th, 2003, 05:14 AM

well, its still a decent armor -- and pretty cheap at that!

tesco samoa

July 26th, 2003, 05:41 AM

The Facilities are fantastic.

30% maintence reduction is good.

Crystal eats more rads than normal.... So build a few extra rad factories

The Crystal armor is your friend http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

WEapons are ok.... Better with SD's

TerranC

July 26th, 2003, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Taera:
OK i want people to give me their advices... i want to play my next game as a crystallurgy race but i'd like to know if its an advantageous trait.

Of course i get cheap armor early on. But when faced with things like Psychic or Temporary, do Crystallurgy stand a chance?

I'd appreciate some tips for playing a crystallurgy race.Crystallurgy is a defensive trait at best: the three facilities you get are defensive; Maintenance reduction on ships, Shields increase on ships, and resources generation through sunlight; all useful things to players who are in lack of ships and resources.

Weapons whoever, are definitely offensive; you get a faster, and only a bit weaker IMHO, substitute for the WMG, and long range armor skipping weapons. You also get seekers, and and reload time distruptors, which is very useful.

But the unfortunate thing is, is that All the other traits have more powerful stuff. All those pros don't hold a candle to the Allegiance Converter, the Talisman, and the TSY.

Taera

July 26th, 2003, 07:23 AM

hmm agree. But defensive.. the Solar Panels are great because you no longer depend on the values, and the maintenance reduction allows you to put those extra ships out there. Is it realy that defensive? Considering the VERY CHEAP armor and weapons, plus the maintenance reduction on the bases and remote miners, they're good for resources.
Thats their best advantage though. They have good weapons.... but racial weapons level 6-10 are very difficult to get. Costly.

TerranC

July 26th, 2003, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Taera:
hmm agree. But defensive.. the Solar Panels are great because you no longer depend on the values, and the maintenance reduction allows you to put those extra ships out there. Is it realy that defensive?Yes it is. Since the Reduction goes away as soon as you leave the system that has a reduction facility.

Taera

July 26th, 2003, 08:20 AM

well yes, but you can use better remote extraction, cheaper bases and cheaper defenses.

Fyron

July 26th, 2003, 09:05 AM

You can not get the better remote mining in those asteroid ring systems though.

Cheaper bases is again all defensive, which was TC's point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Taera

July 26th, 2003, 10:15 AM

what about repair & construction bases?? those are defensive?? a BSY draws ~500 mins. if you have a lot of these, a 30% reduction would help.

Loser

July 26th, 2003, 06:51 PM

And use Shielded Fighters heavily in system defensive planning. The Shield adding Facility does wonders for Fighter Stacks.

Arkcon

July 27th, 2003, 01:00 AM

Remember, the armor skipping weapons make orgainc's best defence -- the organic armor -- a complete non-issue. Forge an alliance with religious and psychic allies on that basis if organic players join.

Taera

July 27th, 2003, 08:54 PM

phased weapons. that does it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Karibu

July 27th, 2003, 10:10 PM

You get best crystal armor near mid game. By then you use battle cruisers and cruisers mostly. I made some testing with Crystal armor and weapons few months ago. If you put 11 crystal armor and one (phased)shield in a ship, no weapon which makes under 150 damage can harm that ship. For any ship size of battleship or smaller, you must have either Shatter beam or null space weapon to make any damage into ship using crystal armor.

I have personally destroyed 30 enemy battleships with one battleship using crystal armor. Enemy had talisman, so they hit every shot...

It would take some time to explain it and I don't bother to do that now. You can see that by yourself with battle simulator.

So it gives you considerable adwantage early on, but its effectiveness vanishes when your opponent start using baseships and Massive mount guns. Also, against other crystal race, this armor is worthless.

Rollo

July 28th, 2003, 12:42 AM

In Devnull Mod Crytalline tech has been beefed up a bit. IIRC the wepaons are a bit better and also you get splinter armor. It gives you very efficient ablative type armor in the early game that even fuels your shields.

And there are the crossover techs, of course. If you take a second race trait you get unique stuff like harmonic shields (very high regeneration), biocrystal armor, or chant crystals (that skip ALL shields).

Rollo

Taera

July 28th, 2003, 07:26 AM

chant crystal is very evil thing, ive already taken a look at the cross-techs.

Loser

July 28th, 2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Taera:
phased weapons. that does it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I wass just told, in another thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009609;p=5), that shield skipping weapons do not skip the shields on Fighters!

Originally posted by oleg:
Shield point on WP and fighters are part of structure. PPB does NOT skip unit's nonphased shields. Neither does NSP.
and in a later post
See, the "blue bar" for a satellite, same as for the fighter, is a decoration. When you add a shield to the unit, its "red bar" - structure, jumps by the same amount of points as the "blue bar". Does not matter, phased or not. Same for the planet with WP.So that's encouraging.

oleg

July 28th, 2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Taera:
phased weapons. that does it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Once you research phased shields, CA will work against PPB as well. Units' shields can not be skipped. Even by null-space weapons. Energy transmission lens is fighters best friend http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK

July 29th, 2003, 12:50 AM

The Energy Dampener is one of the most powerful weapons in the game. One hit = one disabled enemy ship, especially mounted. Unlike the Psychic Mental Flailer, it isn't blocked by Master Computers, either.

PvK

Master Belisarius

July 29th, 2003, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by PvK:
The Energy Dampener is one of the most powerful weapons in the game. One hit = one disabled enemy ship, especially mounted. Unlike the Psychic Mental Flailer, it isn't blocked by Master Computers, either.

PvKA problem with this weapon: can�t remember the patch, but now first you need to put the enemy shields down to have effect... then, don't think is so useful. The Tessellate use them in limited designes.

Cirvol

July 29th, 2003, 04:36 AM

so whats the best racial tech combo you think for devnull 1.7??

crystal and psychic?
crystal and religous?

if you had to pick 2, which would you do?

oleg

July 29th, 2003, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PvK:
The Energy Dampener is one of the most powerful weapons in the game. One hit = one disabled enemy ship, especially mounted. Unlike the Psychic Mental Flailer, it isn't blocked by Master Computers, either.

PvKA problem with this weapon: can�t remember the patch, but now first you need to put the enemy shields down to have effect... then, don't think is so useful. The Tessellate use them in limited designes.<hr /></blockquote>Interesting. I could not find such a reference in history file. Why was it changed ??? It is indeed became a worthless weapon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Taera

July 29th, 2003, 05:41 AM

Crystal and religious. Skip all shields, skip all armor.

Master Belisarius

July 30th, 2003, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PvK:
The Energy Dampener is one of the most powerful weapons in the game. One hit = one disabled enemy ship, especially mounted. Unlike the Psychic Mental Flailer, it isn't blocked by Master Computers, either.

PvKA problem with this weapon: can�t remember the patch, but now first you need to put the enemy shields down to have effect... then, don't think is so useful. The Tessellate use them in limited designes.<hr /></blockquote>Interesting. I could not find such a reference in history file. Why was it changed ??? It is indeed became a worthless weapon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <hr /></blockquote>Agree, I can't see it in the history... but think it was when the Ionic Disperser was fixed.

Taera

July 30th, 2003, 07:53 AM

you just realize that before a single hit from ID could simply disable the ship -- it was the ultimate killer weapon. just send in two frigates, the enemy is toast - it might shoot, but it cant move anymore. i think its a very great change there.

oleg

July 30th, 2003, 12:21 PM

Agree, I can't see it in the history... but think it was when the Ionic Disperser was fixed.[/QB]But WHY did he do it ?? I never saw anyone complaining about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
How about Mental Flair, is it affected too ?

Cirvol

July 30th, 2003, 08:37 PM

Taera... so Crystal and Religious you think are the most over-balanced?

How would you fight against someone with both traits? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

(aside from trying to kill them early which is obvious;)

Fyron

July 30th, 2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Taera:
you just realize that before a single hit from ID could simply disable the ship -- it was the ultimate killer weapon. just send in two frigates, the enemy is toast - it might shoot, but it cant move anymore. i think its a very great change there.He just mentioned ID for time reference. He was talking about the change to the Energy Dampener.

Taera

July 30th, 2003, 11:54 PM

Cirvol - well, theres only one way - outrange them. Because Chant Crystal has a low range and Crystal Shard doesnt skip shields, and has rather low damage. The point is though that even that chant crystal doesnt do that much damage.
However, a religious/crystal race could be quite devastating because of the economy bonuses overlaps - -30% maintenance, plus time and nature shrines, plus solar collectors...
I still think its a fair thing for 3k cost.

Fyron - what was the change?

oleg

July 31st, 2003, 12:25 AM

MB, you are wrong ! Energy dampener skips shields all right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

July 31st, 2003, 12:30 AM

Taera:
Well... see Oleg's previous post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Taera

July 31st, 2003, 12:36 AM

all special weapons skip all shields and all armor. this excludes ID because it was a ship-killer before. And ID is a special case.

Fyron

July 31st, 2003, 12:52 AM

Not all of them. Security Station Only and Boarding Party Only do not skip shielding.

[ July 30, 2003, 23:53: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Taera

July 31st, 2003, 03:39 AM

i havent tested these...

oleg

July 31st, 2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by Taera:
i havent tested these...Yes you did http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Have you ever tried to board a ship with shields ?

Phoenix-D

July 31st, 2003, 07:31 PM

That's not the damage type Fyron is refering to actually. There are two unused (in stock) types that destroy only boarding parties or only security stations.

EDIT: There's also "only planet destroyers, but I'm not sure if that one works

[ July 31, 2003, 18:31: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Fyron

July 31st, 2003, 07:35 PM

It works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Cirvol

August 7th, 2003, 02:28 PM

ok, so how many players in devnull4 (when geo gets his dsl back;P) will be using crystal+religous?

if you were going to fight against such an opponent, would outranging be your only viable option? (thx for your replay taera btw;)

what do the rest of you think?

fyron, atrocities, etc etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Cirvol

August 24th, 2003, 06:02 PM

now that pbw is back... can anyone else comment on the devnull dual-special-race abilities/components?

has anyone tested them in larger type games?
in higher level tech fights?

and, finally, when will the devnull4 game really start?