OT: Trans-Atlantic Model Airplane

[Loser]

http://tam.plannet21.com/

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

Now hamsters can flee the land of Richard Gere!
It is cool though.

[Gryphin]

I'm skeptical:

How much would enough fule weigh to do that?
How much space would it take up?

I used to sell Radio Control modle aircraft equipmtnet. (about 25 years ago)
Granted things could have changed but:
At the time enough fule to stay airborn for 20 minutes at slow speed was 8 to 10 ounces.

I could be way off here.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i fail to see how it could be controlled. a computer could not deal with random situations very well. and it would be in the newspapers.

[Fyron]

A simple satellite uplink (very small and lightweight these days... cell phone anyone?) would provide all the mechanism needed to issue orders to the plane from anywhere. GPS does wonders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And, you can get really, really small and lightweight cameras too, so they could see where it was going (mostly so they can see if it is going to crash into a passing ship or something).

[ August 15, 2003, 23:09: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Jack Simth]

Actually, you could have a computer controlling it.
The controls would take:
1) Electronic Altimeter
2) Electronic Level Monitor
3) Electronic Compass
4) GPS
5) A processor (A simple Z80 would suffice), RAM, flashed ROM, a battery
6) Override control (for landing/takeoff)

Then just code things to follow a few simple rules:
1) If not on line towards destination (determined by GPS and Compass), turn approprietly.
2) If below a particular altitude, go up.
3) If above a particular altitude, level out.
4) If not within a particular margin of level, level out.
5) If Radio Control is on, follow that, suspending the above rules.

You'd want it to fly fairly high to avoid boats and waves, but low enough to avoid other aircraft. You'd also want to plan it for when the weather would be good. Or you could control it via satelite and camera, as Fyron suggested.

[Baron Munchausen]

It does sound like quite a technical challenge, but think about it. If a commercial airliner can carry 300-400 people and several tons of baggage across the Atlantic with current technology then why can't a model plane make it with zero cargo? It's just that no one has put much effort into implementing 'state of the art' technology in a model plane before. I saw an article on slashdot a few weeks ago about some guy in Australia claiming he could build a 'homebrew' cruise missile for $5,000 or so. I think we 'civilians' have not been paying attention to where the technology is going.

[ August 16, 2003, 01:54: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[minipol]

The us army has unmanned reconnaisance airplanes too, don't they?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

that still leaves the fuel.

yes, they do. including a big drone that runs of solar power that could cross an ocean. saw a documentary on nova.

[ August 16, 2003, 04:08: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Fyron]

The plane could have been powered by solar panels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or just some batteries. Modern types of batteries have very long charge times now. Probably a combination of the two.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
Actually, you could have a computer controlling it.
The controls would take:
1) Electronic Altimeter
2) Electronic Level Monitor
3) Electronic Compass
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually the GPS which you mentioned for number 4 would multi-task quite well for these three also. GPS gives positional references in three dimensions and with GPS you don't need a compass.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Actually the GPS which you mentioned for number 4 would multi-task quite well for these three also. GPS gives positional references in three dimensions and with GPS you don't need a compass.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So GPS also returns the relative angles of the unit? Good to know.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

but still, no news press? admitadly, they miss things, but they seem pretty on the ball on people crossing oceans and lakes and the english channel.

[Fyron]

It is not interesting enough to help with Ratings or ad revenue, so they probably ignored it.

[Gryphin]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The plane could have been powered by solar panels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or just some batteries. Modern types of batteries have very long charge times now. Probably a combination of the two.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The artical describes the engine and fule. There is no mention of Solar Cells.

[Loser]

Batteries would not return as much power for their weight as fuel would. Gasoline really is a wonderful fuel source: portable, easily obtained, efficient, relatively stable, and of a tolerable level of toxicity. It is not only fortunate that certain processes led to it's widespread abundance, it is essential for the industrial development of humanity.

GPS only returns 'facing' based on movement. Since the plane will not always move in the direction it's facing (wind), I suspect they also had a compass on there.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Gryphin:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The plane could have been powered by solar panels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or just some batteries. Modern types of batteries have very long charge times now. Probably a combination of the two.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The artical describes the engine and fule. There is no mention of Solar Cells.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea. 5.5 pounds of fuel I believe.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
but still, no news press?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Globe and Mail, a canada-wide newspaper, had it on 2nd page.

Anything to please the newfies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And the fuel was Kerosene I believe. And after it's trip from Newfoundland to Ireland, it still had enough to fly for about 4 more hours, I think.

[geoschmo]

National Georghapic.com covered it. I also saw it on CNN the other day before this thread started, btu I haven't been able to find the link again looking for it.

[dogscoff]

yes, they do. including a big drone that runs of solar power that could cross an ocean. saw a documentary on nova.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know if it's the same thing, but I saw an article about these giant unmanned planes that were designed to stay aloft at very high altitudes on an indefinite basis! They were really flimsy and lightweight looking, with a huge wingspan and loads of really big propellors. They props were driven by solar power from panels covering the wings.

They were conceived as a cheap alternative to orbital satellites for things like weather monitoring, recon, and all those other things they use satellites for. Cool idea.

EDIT: As for controlling the transatlantic effort, you could
(a) fly a normal aircraft alongside it and use a normal controller from there.
(b) program it to follow a signal from a transmitter attached to a trained bird or something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ August 18, 2003, 16:59: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[DavidG]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
National Georghapic.com covered it. I also saw it on CNN the other day before this thread started, btu I haven't been able to find the link again looking for it.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">\ http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0805_020805_transatlantic.html

This article seems to explains it best. I think the plane was programed to follow a certain path and the guy in Ireland just waited for it to show up and then took control.

Also although Drones may have crosed the Ocean it seems some Model Airplane association (or something like that) has pretty specific rules for what they consider a model.

[ August 18, 2003, 17:54: Message edited by: DavidG ]