Are homeplanets affected by high/catastrophic events? [Archive]

PsychoTechFreak

September 9th, 2003, 11:21 PM

Intention of this observation:
Are Master Planets affected by high/catastrophic events?

Setup:
AICampaign 3.02, but with a 4.b events.txt which I have modified with text entries to track the severities of the events.
SE4 Batch (by Master Belisarius), every turn will be saved (with an events.txt for human)
3 Empires, 1 planet start
1 human player set on AI complete on (Eee),
star map midlife med. size (about 60 systems),
Eee are only remaining empire after 125 years, but a lot of other races arose from riots,
Event Percent Chance High := 90

Does anybody know if this could be set to a value greater than 100? I have taken 90 because I am not sure if values higher than 100 could have some overflow effects.

Problems after 100 years, the next 25 years have taken 7 hours because of the 1000s of units, I guess.

Homeplanet name: Arianna I (has not been affected by high/catastrophic events within the first 1250 turns)
A lot of rebellions occur, some of them are even medium severity events, but the HW has not been affected even by medium rebellions.

The only history.txt about events are saved from the human player, so I just have observed the Eee.

The game can be continued, if you think of very rare events that might come after 500 years or such. But as I have stated above, 250 turns take 7 hours from now on.

I can provide savegames of every turn. Following Posts are a list of all catastrophic events and then high events (just for the Eee).

PsychoTechFreak

September 9th, 2003, 11:22 PM

2418.6 Catastrophic Event The population of Arianna II has rebelled against us and formed a new nation.

2426.0 Catastrophic Event A plasma instability has been detected within the star Keldanar Star. Our scientists predict it will destroy itself in approximately 3 years.

2428.2 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna VII has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2437.4 Catastrophic Event 36 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Kiladen IV.

2438.5 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna III has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2438.8 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Ceberhardt I has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2439.3 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna V has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2444.2 Planet Destroyed Planetary Minister: Planet Giauzar VI which resided in the Giauzar system has been utterly destroyed, sire. We had a colony of 11M on the planet.
2444.2 Catastrophic Event An experiment gets out of control on , ripping the planet apart.

2447.1 Catastrophic Event 33 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar V.

2447.2 Catastrophic Event The population of Organia I has rebelled against us and formed a new nation.

2452.3 Catastrophic Event The population of Organia V has rebelled against us and formed a new nation.

2460.2 Catastrophic Event 27 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar II A.

2463.0 Catastrophic Event 36 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar III.

2468.6 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna VII has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2468.9 Catastrophic Event 36 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Kiladen IV.

2477.0 Catastrophic Event The population of Giauzar V has rebelled against us and formed a new nation.

2477.4 Planet Destroyed Planetary Minister: Planet Dertran III which resided in the Dertran system has been utterly destroyed, sire. We had a colony of 13M on the planet.
2477.4 Catastrophic Event An experiment gets out of control on , ripping the planet apart.

2481.2 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna VI has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2484.0 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Prenix V has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2495.5 Catastrophic Event 26 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Vilius Sepentus X.

2496.0 Catastrophic Event 33 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar III.

2502.0 Catastrophic Event 29 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Vilius Sepentus II.

2525.2 Planet Destroyed Planetary Minister: Planet Panasa II which resided in the Panasa system has been utterly destroyed, sire. We had a colony of 11M on the planet.
2525.2 Catastrophic Event An experiment gets out of control on , ripping the planet apart.

2525.4 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Sephandris II A has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

PsychoTechFreak

September 9th, 2003, 11:23 PM

2404.7 High Event New Flash....Uprising is in progress on Osshod I. The local government is seeking Miltary aid.

2404.8 High Event New Flash....Uprising is in progress on Osshod I. The local government is seeking Miltary aid.

2404.9 High Event Insurrectionary forces have overthrown the local Government of Osshod I.

2405.0 High Event Insurrectionary forces have overthrown the local Government of Osshod I.

2408.6 High Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Vilius Sepentus I has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2410.3 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Arianna III began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2418.0 High Event New Flash....Uprising is in progress on Vilius Sepentus I. The local government is seeking Miltary aid.

2418.2 High Event Insurrectionary forces have overthrown the local Government of Vilius Sepentus I.

2418.5 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship Minefield in the Arianna system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2421.4 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship in the Giauzar system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2424.3 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship Satellite Group in the Ceberhardt system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2428.6 High Event An Alien device is discovered on planet Arianna III. While attempting to study it, a student on the dig activates the device.

2428.7 High Event Warp Point is fluctuating from gravitational shear forces. Our scientists conclude it will collapse within 1.0 years.

2428.8 High Event News Flash......Alien Device found on planet Arianna III improves life for the population.

2429.7 High Event 19 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Arianna IV.

2430.5 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Giauzar VI began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2432.3 High Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Giauzar II A has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2432.5 High Event 17 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Arianna III.

2432.6 High Event 18 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Arianna VII.

2434.4 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship in the Arianna system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2437.0 High Event NewsFlash..... breaking story on Giauzar V. A fire burned through downtown today causing major damage. A number of buildings will have to be closed.

2437.6 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship in the Kiladen system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2444.1 High Event 20 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Organia I.

2451.2 High Event 17 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar V.

2453.2 High Event The citizens of Kiladen IV are growing upset over the poor living conditions.

2455.0 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Dorado V began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2456.8 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship in the Arianna system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2462.2 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship in the Arianna system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2463.6 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Vilius Sepentus II A began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2465.8 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Arianna III began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2471.6 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Vilius Sepentus X began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2474.2 High Event The citizens of Anacritus II A are growing upset over the poor living conditions.

2477.3 High Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Panasa VIII has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2480.9 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship in the Karnor system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2482.3 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship Satellite Group in the Arianna system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2492.1 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Vilius Sepentus IX began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2499.3 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Dertran VI began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2506.4 High Event A massive explosion ripped through the ship in the Arianna system. The cause cannot be determined with certainty.

2511.9 High Event NewsFlash..... breaking story on Vilius Sepentus VI. A fire burned through downtown today causing major damage. A number of buildings will have to be closed.

2513.7 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Tuari IV began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

2516.3 High Event 19 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Tuari IX.

2522.9 High Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Vilius Sepentus VIII has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2525.5 High Event News Flash....The citizens of Tuari IV began rioting today. Sources say that it was due to unjust treatment by local Government officials. The military may be called in to restore order.

Fyron

September 9th, 2003, 11:29 PM

Why would you not run the test with stock se4 and a few neutrals? Processing would take much less time then...

Setting event chances over 100 is pointless, as 100 makes one event occur every turn. You can not have more than one event occur in a turn. But, higher numbers do not cause any crashes or anything. I set it to 3000 or so in one of my tests a while back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I would like to point out that SJ made an entire scenario from a savegame where the star in his home system went nova (and there was only one home world). It is called Exodus, and it can be found *here* (http://www.geocities.com/hohoho611ca/pirates.html). It is for SE4 classic (pre-gold) and P&N 2.3c. I do not recall any changes being made to how events work in Gold, and see no mention of any changes in the History file related to this...

PsychoTechFreak

September 9th, 2003, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Why would you not run the test with stock se4 and a few neutrals? Processing would take much less time then...
Good idea, I have noticed the slowdown due to many unit issue in AIC too late. I discontinue AIC and will switch over to stock game then.

I would like to know, what exactly SJ has done with his scenario. Has it been a 1 planet start really? If it has been a multiple planet start, it will be difficult to find out the master planet after the first turn.

EDIT: I am going to try a stock game setup with chance modifiers (lucky/cursed traits) to test the bugfix about event distribution with the same simulation. But this could take a while...

[ September 09, 2003, 22:45: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Fyron

September 9th, 2003, 11:45 PM

It was indeed a one planet start game (made sure to ask him before posting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). I think he was just playing normally, then had the event hit him, and decided to turn it into a scenario. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Look at the planet type in the Colonies window with the Value tab and it says "Homeworld" on the home planet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 09, 2003, 22:46: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron

September 9th, 2003, 11:47 PM

If you want to use a full-fledged AI race instead of Neutrals, I suggest using the None AI type (can be found on PBW) to neuter them so they do no expansion and slow down turn processing. That can not have any affect on the occurence of random events. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PsychoTechFreak

September 9th, 2003, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It was indeed a one planet start game (made sure to ask him before posting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). I think he was just playing normally, then had the event hit him, and decided to turn it into a scenario. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Look at the planet type in the Colonies window with the Value tab and it says "Homeworld" on the home planet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Interesting, it could be also that high/cat. events on HW are intended to be very rare, e.g. one event in 10,000 turns. If so, SJ would have been very lucky (or cursed)...

Fyron

September 9th, 2003, 11:53 PM

That could be it, as I know I have seen my home planet and home star blow up before on single planet starts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Also, this is part of the reason why most PBW games have events disabled, because nasty events like this do happen.

PsychoTechFreak

September 9th, 2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
If you want to use a full-fledged AI race instead of Neutrals, I suggest using the None AI type (can be found on PBW) to neuter them so they do no expansion and slow down turn processing. That can not have any affect on the occurence of random events. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Could you point me on that, please? Or do you have any search keys, I donot find it in the list.

EDIT: I think I have found one:

Vessels v1.2 Gorgo beautiful shipset done by Zarix; contains AI-none files

[ September 09, 2003, 23:03: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Fyron

September 10th, 2003, 12:04 AM

Looks like Geo removed it from PBW. The "AI does not make changes" option in the Ministers tab works as of the latest patch for Gold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif So, I have uploaded it temporarily here: No AI Mod (http://spaceempires.net/files/temp/noaimod.zip).

Edit:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ September 09, 2003, 23:05: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 10th, 2003, 12:28 AM

Thanks Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I am going to start tomorrow, otherwise the setup about lucky trait could become incorrect (I am tired). If someone has got any interesting idea about other aspects of the setup, feel free... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Unfortunately the batch simulator just creates event notes.txt from the human player (#1), these txt files can be observed by explorer (search function). I am going to remove any event which can create additional races to observe the event distribution, but this has to take place in two games at least: human player with lucky trait and a 2nd race, next game human player with cursed trait (modified). BTW, what is the max. value for lucky/cursed event chance modifiers? 100 also?

Now the event history function under the races window would be a handy observation tool, if it would work *sigh* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Fyron

September 10th, 2003, 12:31 AM

You have to set some setting to TRUE to get the History page to work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Create Log Text Files for Players := False
Create Log Text File for Game := False

I have no idea what the max levels for lucky trait are, or how the trait actually works, for that matter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 09, 2003, 23:32: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Intention of this observation:
Are Master Planets affected by high/catastrophic events?

Setup:
AICampaign 3.02, but with a 4.b events.txt which I have modified with text entries to track the severities of the events.
SE4 Batch (by Master Belisarius), every turn will be saved (with an events.txt for human)
3 Empires, 1 planet start
1 human player set on AI complete on (Eee),
star map midlife med. size (about 60 systems),
Eee are only remaining empire after 125 years, but a lot of other races arose from riots,
Event Percent Chance High := 90

Does anybody know if this could be set to a value greater than 100? I have taken 90 because I am not sure if values higher than 100 could have some overflow effects.

Problems after 100 years, the next 25 years have taken 7 hours because of the 1000s of units, I guess.

Homeplanet name: Arianna I (has not been affected by high/catastrophic events within the first 1250 turns)
A lot of rebellions occur, some of them are even medium severity events, but the HW has not been affected even by medium rebellions.

The only history.txt about events are saved from the human player, so I just have observed the Eee.

The game can be continued, if you think of very rare events that might come after 500 years or such. But as I have stated above, 250 turns take 7 hours from now on.

I can provide savegames of every turn. Following Posts are a list of all catastrophic events and then high events (just for the Eee).This looks good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and thanks PTF http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
If I see this correctly there was no Master Planets (Home Worlds) affected by high/catastrophic events.
Thanks for clearing this up.

With a 90% Chance percent. Yeh, I also would expect 16 plus Independent races.

I need to tweak the new 4.b1 Beta Events file so Independent races are spawned in about 500turns of a game to around 1-2 at Low Chance, 2-4 at Medium and 4+ at high chance. This is what the results are on average with the default Medium Players setup from the old events file, and I would like to try to get those numbers back.

I will remove the Harsh Medium Events as we discussed and retweak 4.Events files and if you would like retesting 4.b2 at AIC default parameters; chancing percentage of L10-M20 or High 40 in a 500turn game or two as we discussed earlier, at some point in the future I would appreciate that, if time permits.

Thanks again PTF, nice job. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT: I probably will go at with 30% as the high Chance Ceiling in the AIC sttings file.

[ September 10, 2003, 00:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

September 10th, 2003, 01:12 AM

Keep in mind that planet and star destroying events at least can target uninhabited planets and stars (systems), and so the chance of the game randomly selecting the home planet/system is very low. 1250 turns is likely not enough for these events...

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 01:20 AM

Excellent Point Fyron, what is the Average game turn count to Complete a game.
With all New Game settings at se4 defaults
What would be a good approximation?

[ September 10, 2003, 00:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

September 10th, 2003, 01:38 AM

It depends on the game setup, and the player playing the game.

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 02:57 AM

With all middling, what would you expect the game turns to average?

oleg

September 10th, 2003, 04:13 AM

PTF, did you see AI HW rebellions ? I mean other two races, not your Eee.

How did you add races, via .emp files or as a random choice ? It may make difference, however unlikely.

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 04:45 AM

Oleg, when you added the races, was it Random?

Other then the CueCappa (lucky) and the Norak(REL). I beleave PTF removed them from the Race Folder prior to the test.

Other then this I do not see how the Race Data files could affect the Event result.

[ September 10, 2003, 04:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 04:56 AM

I was wondering, I noticed that the events tested are set at 90%. About one every 9+ turns.

If it were set to 1000% would this make it more frequent, closer perhaps to one event every turn?

[ September 10, 2003, 03:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

September 10th, 2003, 05:00 AM

90% should be an event on 90% of turns... unless this is another one of those variables that is in tenths... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 10, 2003, 04:01: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
90% should be an event on 90% of turns... unless this is another one of those variables that is in tenths... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes
Test data looks less frequant then 90%

==========================
REFERENCE

2426.0 Catastrophic Event A plasma instability has been detected within the star Keldanar Star. Our scientists predict it will destroy itself in approximately 3 years.

2428.2 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna VII has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2437.4 Catastrophic Event 36 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Kiladen IV.

2438.5 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna III has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2438.8 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Ceberhardt I has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2439.3 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna V has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

2444.2 Planet Destroyed Planetary Minister: Planet Giauzar VI which resided in the Giauzar system has been utterly destroyed, sire. We had a colony of 11M on the planet.
2444.2 Catastrophic Event An experiment gets out of control on , ripping the planet apart.

2447.1 Catastrophic Event 33 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar V.

2447.2 Catastrophic Event The population of Organia I has rebelled against us and formed a new nation.

2452.3 Catastrophic Event The population of Organia V has rebelled against us and formed a new nation.

2460.2 Catastrophic Event 27 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar II A.

2463.0 Catastrophic Event 36 million unexpected refugees have arrived on Giauzar III.

2468.6 Catastrophic Event News Flash! A disaster at the Bio-tech lab on Arianna VII has released a deadly virus. All travel to the planet is restricted.

[ September 10, 2003, 04:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
If you want to use a full-fledged AI race instead of Neutrals, I suggest using the None AI type (can be found on PBW) to neuter them so they do no expansion and slow down turn processing. That can not have any affect on the occurence of random events. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif With no expansion, the data may not be as relevant, as it applies to a game situation.

There will be few to no Colonies to disperse the events.

[ September 10, 2003, 04:17: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

September 10th, 2003, 05:19 AM

Umm... the point of the data was only to see if high/catastrophic events can hit homeworlds. It is just as relevant with or without expansion. In fact, without expansion, there is no chance of events happening but hitting non HW targets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

JLS

September 10th, 2003, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Umm... the point of the data was only to see if high/catastrophic events can hit homeworlds. It is just as relevant with or without expansion. In fact, without expansion, there is no chance of events happening but hitting non HW targets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif This may just do it, good point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

oleg

September 10th, 2003, 06:43 AM

Very good job, PTF !

I made extensive tests myself and yes, I can confirm there is a threshold for HW events :

I set the events chance = 100 and moded events file to leave just one event - Planet Rebel (PR).

Now i run two tests , one with PR set to medium, aanother where PR is catastrophic. In all games it was me and 8 AIs.

PR-catstrophic kept all HW to rightfull owners but all new colonies rebelled.

PR-medium resulted in 50-50 split between HW and new colony rebellion. Hence, AI' HW has the immunity to catastr. events but is exposed to medium and low. I did' check "high" events but apparently they are grouped with "catastr."

Se moves in misterios ways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 10, 2003, 05:49: Message edited by: oleg ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 10th, 2003, 07:07 AM

Good morning, sorry folks,
I am going to read your Posts when I finish work today, just one thought:

What do you think about a modded events file which is about just one event?
The best event to be observed very easily is the planet value change (by 1 per cent). If I take just this one event and change only the severities of it over 4 test runs? I need 2 inactive races for this of course, so the none-ai mod is excellent for this.

QuarianRex

September 10th, 2003, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
90% should be an event on 90% of turns... unless this is another one of those variables that is in tenths... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes
Test data looks less frequant then 90%<hr /></blockquote>The list is less frequent than 90%, but that is only because this is a list of events that happened to the player. Events are still happening to other races and unclaimed sectors of space that are not recorded in that list.

PsychoTechFreak

September 10th, 2003, 07:15 PM

Don't forget, I only have listed high/catastrophic events. But probably we get this answered.

Setup:
2 Races (no-AI mod), one race is cursed (+100), the other is lucky (-100)
events chance 100
I modified the events.txt to ONE low event (planet value change +1), bad planet start (settings modified to 0).

After 20 years I can stop already:
Cursed race: 181 events
Lucky race: Absolutely no event

So I guess, MM's fix about event chances has been successful. But I will try some other values lower than +/- 100 with Medium severities.

With High/Catastrophic I might change to 10 planet start to see if the assumption about the master planet comes true. Another reason is the no-ai races can not colonize, so there would be no comparison between homeworlds, masterplanet and colonized worlds.

EDIT:
Changed setup to 1 medium event, same as above but with lucky -50, cursed +50 and swapped player slots (to exclude this).

After 20 years:
Cursed race: 181 events
Lucky race: Absolutely no event

This is not a copy/paste error, the event count has been the same.

Now I have got a High events game running, NO events for both races after 10 years, one on one, 1planet start. I think I could switch over to 10 planet start with a very long run soon (500 years or more).

NO events after 53 years, process time seems to be more than with low/med events. Probably the program tries to bring up an event, but is not allowed to do so?

BTW, Fyron is correct with 100% chance and one event per turn:
There are no events from 2400.0 through 2401.9. If you count the turns/events from 2402.0 through 2420.0 what is it? 181 events, correct.

[ September 10, 2003, 19:46: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 10th, 2003, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
PTF, did you see AI HW rebellions ? I mean other two races, not your Eee.

How did you add races, via .emp files or as a random choice ? It may make difference, however unlikely.I am still searching for the according turns to find out what has happened with the other two races.

The races have been created this way:
I started a dummy game, just to save the empire file for the Eee. Then I started a game with Eee 1st slot, and random choice for low number of empires. I have observed the first turn after processing, to see if there is a race in the game with some kind of event modifier.

With the most recent tests, I have just created NEW races (neutral, everything 100, just lucky or cursed trait). No random choice, just what you get with the "add new race" button.

PsychoTechFreak

September 10th, 2003, 09:13 PM

Interim test for medium events:
Cursed is set to 0 event chance modifier (racial trait)
Lucky is -10

2407.0 Cursed race has got 51 events (one each turn from 2402.0 through 2407.0.

Lucky race is still on zero events. I think about a 3rd race with another event chance modifier for the next test run.

PsychoTechFreak

September 10th, 2003, 11:09 PM

Strong Not-intended-feature assumption with the events distribution. But I can not even tell it here, it looks like an exploitable bug.

Oleg, the other two races of my first test run (AIC) :

XiChung, MEDIUM Event, homeworld rebellion in 2413.8.

Sallegas homeworld loss has been funny:
A colonized world rebelled, the rebels have been partners (or MA), rebel partners had a fleet over Sallegas HP. Rebel partners HP died, Sallegas have lost contact to Rebel partners and the still existing fleet (without contact) over Sallegas HP has destroyed the homeworld.

[ September 10, 2003, 22:11: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS

September 11th, 2003, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Sallegas homeworld loss has been funny:
A colonized world rebelled, the rebels have been partners (or MA), rebel partners had a fleet over Sallegas HP. Rebel partners HP died, Sallegas have lost contact to Rebel partners and the still existing fleet (without contact) over Sallegas HP has destroyed the homeworld.[/qb]Kool, scenario. I just might keep that one Medium Rebellion Event in the 4.b2 Event file, afterall http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Of course High default is only 30% High chance, but may still lead to some interesting game play maneuvers.

[ September 10, 2003, 23:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

September 11th, 2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Strong Not-intended-feature assumption with the events distribution. But I can not even tell it here, it looks like an exploitable bug.
looks like an exploitable bug?
PTF, please elaborate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 10, 2003, 23:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 11th, 2003, 08:55 PM

No, this CAN NOT BE. It HAS to be a systematic error with the modified scenario. Before I can go on with the longterm high/catastrophic tests, I have to exclude this error. It could be a side effect of the one-event file or something with the random# tables... The 100% event chance is not the root cause.

I don't find it, it does not make sense, I will stop this. No matter what I change, all events are concentrated on ONE planet. Could be that the random generator is fed by the change of the galaxy, which is static in No-Ai mod.

[ September 11, 2003, 21:25: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS

September 12th, 2003, 12:48 AM

PTF, with this NO-AI or just a Neutrals test, try to have a few LOW and Medium events in the file, as well; then try again see what happens.

JLS

September 12th, 2003, 12:54 AM

Or just use Base se4 and delete the Colony modules or Colony hull, this also will stop AI expantion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Note: This also may give the same error if you are useing just High and Cat events... If just only Home Worlds exist without Colonies and without a low and Medium event in the file.

[ September 12, 2003, 00:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

September 12th, 2003, 01:14 AM

You may not have received that error when you tested AIC because you may have had that One Medium Rebellion in the file, not sure of your setup on that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Although I am surprised, if you look at your posted data that there was no MEDIUM Events listed and that Medium event only hit the AI. On the other hand, there were low and Medium events to the Eee but you just have noth a chance to post them? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 12, 2003, 01:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 12th, 2003, 08:43 PM

with this NO-AI or just a Neutrals test, try to have a few LOW and Medium events in the file, as well; then try again see what happens. Done that, all severities implemented, multiple events implemented - same result

Or just use Base se4 and delete the Colony modules or Colony hull, this also will stop AI expantion [[Wink]] I assume the no expansion itself is part of the problem.

Although I am surprised, if you look at your posted data that there was no MEDIUM Events listed and that Medium event only hit the AI. On the other hand, there were low and Medium events to the Eee but you just have noth a chance to post them? I have not posted them, because it takes time to copy/paste them from the txt files.

Eee have seen about 78 low events, 70 medium events additional to the posted events.

I think about a multiple 100 years test with my old setup disregarding the one planet event issue. I have seen 1 event per turn with medium/low and no event with high/cat so far. I mean, whatever causes the massive concentration of events could not have an influence on the question about the frequence of high/cat events on homeworlds, right?

I start with high events test.

BTW, since I can not find the reason for the events concentration, the results about lucky/cursed trait are somewhat questionable.

[ September 12, 2003, 19:49: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS

September 13th, 2003, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
I assume the no expansion itself is part of the problem.
If you tried base se4 without the Colony equipment, along with all events and still had the error, it sounds probable you are right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Eee have seen about 78 low events, 70 medium events additional to the posted events.
No, no need to post them, unless some one else would like to see the data. However, I would be interested in (APROX. numbers only) how many Low and/or Medium actually may have hit Eee�s Home World.

BTW, the results about lucky/cursed trait are somewhat questionable.Your test seemed straight forward. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 13, 2003, 01:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

September 13th, 2003, 03:07 AM

PTF, not to burden the tests even more, I am on board with Fyron and Oleg and still question whether the Home Systems are safe from event Type := Star - Destroyed, even with that event in Cat class http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

What are your thoughts on a way to absolutely resolve this with a test? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 13, 2003, 02:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

September 13th, 2003, 09:12 AM

I suggest you also run some tests with pre-gold SE4 to see if there was some unannounced changes in Gold or a Gold patch to events... I have most certainly had several games in pre-gold where my single HW was hit by a planet or star destroying event. But, I have not played any SP games with Gold, and all my PBW games have had events disabled or set to very low severity and chance, so I have really played very few Gold turns with the possibility of events.

[ September 13, 2003, 08:15: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Suicide Junkie

September 13th, 2003, 05:17 PM

As of 1.49, homesystems were vulnerable to Star destroying events.

For proof, see: Exodus Scenario.

oleg

September 13th, 2003, 07:48 PM

Sometime ago I posted the 1.84 savegame with home system going Nova. It was either on "AIC.." or "max.event sev.." thread - don't remember. But it certainly may happen.

Fyron

September 13th, 2003, 08:10 PM

Ok, then there has been no change. Good.

JLS

September 13th, 2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
Sometime ago I posted the 1.84 savegame with home system going Nova. It was either on "AIC.." or "max.event sev.." thread - don't remember. But it certainly may happen.I'm with you guys. Although very rare, I have also seen a few AI Home Systems go super nova in AIC and se4 gold http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This is why I like your se4 max sev fix, Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 13, 2003, 20:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 13th, 2003, 11:07 PM

I still try to find them Home System novae, seems to be extremely rare. Can you recall if the regarding games have been turn based or simultaneous?

A 500 year simulation with one high event in the events.txt has shown no event. I thought there could be a difference with cat. events, especially with star or planet destroying events. Currently in progress (360 years) is a test with the following events.txt:

Type := Planet - Value Change
Severity := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Catastrophic Event
Message 1 := A cosmic storm has damaged the value of planet [%PlanetName].
Picture := PlanetValueWorse
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

Type := Planet - Destroyed
Severity := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 :=
Message 1 :=
Picture := PlanetDestroyed
Time Till Completion := 10
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Core Instability Detected
Start Message 1 := A growing core instability has been detected within planet [%PlanetName]. Our scientists predict it will destroy itself in approximately 1 year.

Type := Star - Destroyed
Severity := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 :=
Message 1 :=
Picture := StarDestroyed
Time Till Completion := 30
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Plasma Instability Detected
Start Message 1 := A plasma instability has been detected within the star [%StarName]. Our scientists predict it will destroy itself in approximately 3 years.

Fyron

September 13th, 2003, 11:25 PM

I do not recall. I know at least some were sequential, but I do not know if they all were.

But, I would like to point out that nearly all PBW games (hosted by experienced players, at any rate) have events disabled because HWs can be blown up, or at least the severity set below catastrophic. This was not always the case, and in the early days of PBW most games had events enabled. So, enough PBW games had to have been ruined to see such a radical shift. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 13, 2003, 22:28: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

September 13th, 2003, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
I still try to find them Home System novae, seems to be extremely rare. Can you recall if the regarding games have been turn based or simultaneous?
My games was Simu.

What I have seen this Last past week, the effect from events are the same with either play Mode http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 13, 2003, 22:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 14th, 2003, 06:49 PM

2892.6 The 1st homeplanets in a 10planet game have not yet been affected by high/cat events. And not one homesystem nova has occured yet. One idea came up before the simulation: Maybe the system events are somehow linked to colonized worlds in the home systems, so I have played the first turns to colonize all planets in the homesystems, but they are safe. If someone could just ask MM about this...

Captain Kwok

September 14th, 2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
But, I would like to point out that nearly all PBW games (hosted by experienced players, at any rate) have events disabled because HWs can be blown up, or at least the severity set below catastrophic. This was not always the case, and in the early days of PBW most games had events enabled. So, enough PBW games had to have been ruined to see such a radical shift. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Hmm. Had anyone in mind when making this comment? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The chances of a catastrophic event actually hitting a player HW in a medium to large galaxy is extremely remote. It is more likely that people worried that such an event could possibly occur rather than it actually happening in such a number of PBW games that it caused this "radical" shift.

Furthermore, the event would have to occur in the earlier stages of the game (although a nova could be said to have a larger impact in a mid-game) to have any possible real consequences that would unbalance a game.

If you take a FQM large galaxy of about 200 systems, that's say about 2000 planets and 240 stars. It's a 10 player one-HW game and let's assume a catastrophic event occurs every 50 turns.

That's 10 HW stars + 10 HW planets = 20 HW objects

20 HW Obj/2240 Obj x 1/50 = 1/5660

So the chances of the event happening are 1 in 5660 turns. That's about 30 PBW games worth of turns.

Anyways my point is, in a competetive game, you might want to disable such events just in case. However, in a RP that is driven off a PBW game, it might be more interesting to have these events enable as they open many more RP doors than they close.

[ September 14, 2003, 18:58: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Fyron

September 14th, 2003, 08:20 PM

Had anyone in mind? Huh? I had noone in mind.

If it happened just once or twice, that would be enough to cause the effect I mentioned.

PsychoTechFreak

September 14th, 2003, 10:35 PM

Test scenario has been a very small galaxy (22 systems). A scout has been started to explore...

I have found two (non home-) systems destroyed meanwhile. I will take a closer look.

[ September 14, 2003, 21:51: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS

September 17th, 2003, 02:23 AM

Human players and AI players Home Systems are absolutely destroyed by Type := Star � Destroyed with se4 gold�
It has just happened to my Home System http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The only protection from this, maybe with a high severity maximum setting for your pre-game start options.

[ September 17, 2003, 01:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 02:45 PM

What about just removing the event "Star – Destroyed" from the event file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by JLS:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Eee have seen about 78 low events, 70 medium events additional to the posted events.
 Originally posted by JLS:

No, no need to post them, unless some one else would like to see the data. However, I would be interested in (APROX. numbers only) how many Low and/or Medium actually may have hit Eee’s Home World
I don’t remember any event hitting my home planet and I have been playing se4 for over a year http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLS:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Eee have seen about 78 low events, 70 medium events additional to the posted events.
 Originally posted by JLS:

No, no need to post them, unless some one else would like to see the data. However, I would be interested in (APROX. numbers only) how many Low and/or Medium actually may have hit Eee’s Home World
I don’t remember any event hitting my home planet and I have been playing se4 for over a year http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>I was very sceptical too, but then my HW went from Good to Deadly in one month http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, there might be a trend for HW be protected, but it is not 100%. Only MM can tell us.

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 03:41 PM

How can I get a copy of this tester?

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JLS:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Eee have seen about 78 low events, 70 medium events additional to the posted events.
 Originally posted by JLS:

No, no need to post them, unless some one else would like to see the data. However, I would be interested in (APROX. numbers only) how many Low and/or Medium actually may have hit Eee’s Home World
I don’t remember any event hitting my home planet and I have been playing se4 for over a year http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>I was very sceptical too, but then my HW went from Good to Deadly in one month http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, there might be a trend for HW be protected, but it is not 100%. Only MM can tell us.<hr /></blockquote>your saying you went from good to deadly, that is a what, -50 to 90 drop?
At -5 or a -10 even a -20 event how can you drop to deadly from good in one turn? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

What are the numbers, if
100 is optimal
mild ?
good ?
unpleasent ?
harsh ?
0 is deadly

[ September 17, 2003, 14:50: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
your saying you went from good to deadly, that is a what, -50 to 90 drop?
At -5 or a -10 even a -20 event how can you drop to deadly from good in one turn? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

What are the numbers, if
100 is optimal
mild ?
good ?
unpleasent ?
harsh ?
0 is deadlyApparently it works differently. Fyron mentioned planet conditions go from 0.0 to 1.50 I really would like to know how it works. I was really surprised when one planet went from good to deadly after -20 event.

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 03:58 PM

Here is Fyron' post:

"Conditions are stored as a variable ranging from 0.00 to 1.50. Conditions improving facilities improve by .01-.03. So, after 200 turns, it should have improved by .60. IIRC, the lowest threshhold for Unpleasant is .70, so dropping by 20 should have made it .50, and 200 turns should have brought it to 1.10, which is Mild IIRC.

Are you certain there is no other event with the same label and such that could have dropped it by more than 20 (.20)? If the conditions dropped to 0, they would have to be raised by around 70 to hit unpleasant again (I think that is the lowest for unpleasant, though I am not certain)."

----
Now I wonder - what is the formulae to calculate the effect of -10 or -20 event ? Multiply by 0.9/0.8 ?? Subtract 0.1/0.2 ??? I think it is much more severe.

[ September 17, 2003, 15:00: Message edited by: oleg ]

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 04:13 PM

Edited because of my silliness. I made a mistake when testing the -5 and -10 events, so sue me.

Here are the correct results:
-20 transforms any planet into a Deadly one.
-15 transforms any planet into a Deadly one.
-10 transforms an Optimal Planet into an Unpleasant one.
-5 transforms an Optimal Planet into a Mild one.
-1 transforms an Optimal Planet into a Good one.

So these variables are rather -2.0 for the first one , -1.0 and so on, according to the various conditions of the planets and the values linked to these conditions. So, a -20 event means the destruction of the conditions of the planet, while the other ones are a bit less strong. *Is still ashamed of his mistake the first time* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ September 17, 2003, 15:22: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 05:06 PM

So it is possible to raise the planet conditions when it is at deadly.

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
So it is possible to raise the planet conditions when it is at deadly.As said earlier in the thread, it is possible with a regular Deadly planet (edited in the... erh, editor to have a condition of 0.0). However, I have yet to test if you can raise a planet whose condition should be under 0. (1.5 at best - 2.0 means -0.5) I will launch yet another test to know if you can.

However, I needed no less than almost 40 years before changing the conditions from Deadly to Harsh. Rather long as you can see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 05:13 PM

Probably, if +3 facility add 0.03 per year. But wat if it multiply by 1.03 and the value is 0.0, like resources in the finite game ?

My only experience was 250 turns of recovering the deadly planet with +3 facility - no change. I give up then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
Probably, if +3 facility add 0.03 per year. But wat if it multiply by 1.03 and the value is 0.0, like resources in the finite game ?

My only experience was 250 turns of recovering the deadly planet with +3 facility - no change. I give up then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I did test and it doesn't multiply but rather add, as a planet with 0.0 conditions managed to reach Harsh status after a few hundred turns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (And obviously, 0X1.03 would still be 0 after a thousand years) Or perhaps +3 means than you need around 33 years before the conditions are actually altered? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif It would deserve proper testing, as I apparently forget to test with a 0.2 planet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif (The delay should be much faster there)

However, could you resume your game (or rather, take a book and put the book on the F12 key) for a few more hundred turns? (Or even send the savegame to me so that I will be able to test what happens afterwards) I cannot create a situation where I am having a planet below 0.0 as the condition decrease event is still striking the planet every two years or so.

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Alneyan:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
So it is possible to raise the planet conditions when it is at deadly.As said earlier in the thread, it is possible with a regular Deadly planet (edited in the... erh, editor to have a condition of 0.0). However, I have yet to test if you can raise a planet whose condition should be under 0. (1.5 at best - 2.0 means -0.5) I will launch yet another test to know if you can.

However, I needed no less than almost 40 years before changing the conditions from Deadly to Harsh. Rather long as you can see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>If it in fact ads and not multiples then I do not see the difference in the edit test.

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Alneyan:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
So it is possible to raise the planet conditions when it is at deadly.As said earlier in the thread, it is possible with a regular Deadly planet (edited in the... erh, editor to have a condition of 0.0). However, I have yet to test if you can raise a planet whose condition should be under 0. (1.5 at best - 2.0 means -0.5) I will launch yet another test to know if you can.

However, I needed no less than almost 40 years before changing the conditions from Deadly to Harsh. Rather long as you can see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>If it in fact ads and not multiples then I do not see the difference in the edit test.<hr /></blockquote>Hmm, I made another test to be sure, but the problem is, this test contradicts what I wrote earlier. Here are the results:

* A Deadly Planet, conditions 0.0 => Needs around 40 years to go to Harsh status. So it should mean it is an addition and not a multiplication. (0X1.03 would still be 0 after 40 years)
* However, a Deadly Planet, conditions 0.2 => Needs exactly 14 years to go to the same status. And if you add 14 times 3% at 0.2, you have around 0.3 So, according to this second test, it does multiply.

The only explanation I can think of to explain this situation would be that 0.0 is considered as being 0.1 for calcuation purpose. Then, if you add to 0.1 39 times 3%, you will have around 0.3 once again, which is Harsh status. Does that sound possible to you? Again, I cannot think of something else to explain such results.

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 05:59 PM

So when playing Space Empires IV default of -5 conditions event to a planet that would bring it to deadly, that planet would never be able to raised. Rendering that planet useless for the entire game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ September 17, 2003, 17:01: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
So when playing Space Empires IV default of -5 conditions event to a planet that would bring it to deadly, that planet would never be able to raised. Rendering that planet useless for the entire game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif It depends on the condition of your planet, the best they are, the easier it will be to recover from this event. And if the planet conditions were below 0.5, then I am not sure if you could improve the conditions at all, but even a condition of 0.0/0.1 means 39 years before an improvement so. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks for doubting my words GLV, you make me realize my mistake. (I should have run other tests and used my calculator before though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ) Do these results seem likely to you?

The values for the conditions and their meanings:
0.0-0.2: Deadly
0.3-0.4: Harsh
0.5-0.9: Unpleasant
1.0-1.2: Mild
1.3-1.4: Good
1.5: Optimal

And the calculation is linked to a percentage (that is to say, current value X 1.03 for the best facility in the unmodded game), while in the case of 0.0, it seems like 0.1 is used as 0 X anything isn't going to lead far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I will need Oleg savegame or results before testing what happens when the value drops (or is supposed to drop) under 0 though. But recovery will be very long then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Alneyan:
No, contrary to what Rello thought (and his idea seemed to be reasonnable), it does not multiply as I was able to go to 0.0 to Harsh condition in 39 years (or perhaps slightly less). The evolution is *very* slow though from Deadly to Harsh, much slower than from Mild to the best for instance, but don't ask me why. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So you have to wait for another 20 years Oleg before having the pleasure to see the transformations of your planet, or you could build ten CI plants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (My tests have been done with a level 3 CI, so you could speed up the process a bit)AIC has a level 5 CI, this should speed up the process even much faster to an Optimal Planet as opossed to only 3 CI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Alneyan what would +15 do to a Planets harsh condition? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 17, 2003, 17:31: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by Alneyan:
... I will need Oleg savegame or results before testing what happens when the value drops (or is supposed to drop) under 0 though. But recovery will be very long then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Sorry, I deleted that game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif - it was two weeks ago at least. But I'll keep next one if something like this occur again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Alneyan:
No, contrary to what Rello thought (and his idea seemed to be reasonnable), it does not multiply as I was able to go to 0.0 to Harsh condition in 39 years (or perhaps slightly less). The evolution is *very* slow though from Deadly to Harsh, much slower than from Mild to the best for instance, but don't ask me why. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So you have to wait for another 20 years Oleg before having the pleasure to see the transformations of your planet, or you could build ten CI plants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (My tests have been done with a level 3 CI, so you could speed up the process a bit)AIC has a level 5 CI, this should speed up the process even much faster to an Optimal Planet as opossed to only 3 CI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Yes, +5% should speed the things a bit, although not much I fear. But you could build ten level 5 CI, then the conditions should improve much faster. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (If they can improve at all, I still need to check the Deadly planets which had suffered from such events)

Oleg, I would thank you then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But I had an idea, I will try with a very low percentage for the event (1% probably), and I will build a Fate Shrine as soon as the event occurred. Hopefully, I should be fine for many years. (If nothing happens for 50 years while I have built ten level 5 CI, then we will know you cannot do anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

GLV, a +15 event *should* mean that any planet is now Optimal, if they are working like their counterpart. (Except perhaps the Deadly planets which has suffered from a -20 event that is.))

[ September 17, 2003, 17:36: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Grand Lord Vito

September 17th, 2003, 06:33 PM

Oleg, I will email you the Events beta 4.03 file if you want.

Or just use v3.02

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 06:34 PM

Do system-wide and planet-only condition improving abilities stack ? (I believe so)

Do several planet conditions improving buildings stack ? Probably not, but since Value improving do, why not conditions ?

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
Oleg, I will email you the Events beta 4.03 file if you want.

Or just use v3.02Thanks, I would like to try 4.03 ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
Do system-wide and planet-only condition improving abilities stack ? (I believe so)

Do several planet conditions improving buildings stack ? Probably not, but since Value improving do, why not conditions ?I would believe system and planet effects stack, it is the case for other abilities, so why not for condition improvement? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for your second question, here is yet another test. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Three level 5 CI on a Deadly planet, conditions 0.1 => The conditions are Harsh after 8 years, according to the calculations. (It takes around 25 years or so with a single level 5 CI, and 39 years with a level 3 CI) And it was only three CI, you could add a couple more to speed the process. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (Seven years is all you need to transform a Deadly planet into a paradise with 10 level 5 CI. If you can afford it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 06:48 PM

Thanks for tests !
Next time I get deadly event on HW, I'll not give up but build 3 plants and hope for better. Might even make an interesting scenario. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

PsychoTechFreak

September 17th, 2003, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
I was very sceptical too, but then my HW went from Good to Deadly in one month http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, there might be a trend for HW be protected, but it is not 100%. Only MM can tell us.I have seen exactly this also in my first test run with AIC. But you have to take a careful look at the severity of the regarding event. Since I had a savegame of every turn, I found out this one has been the result of a medium event. I could send that turn if you like.

PsychoTechFreak

September 17th, 2003, 07:36 PM

Longterm test run with 22 systems and 5 home systems is at year 3092.1 now. Still there are only two non-homesystems destroyed, no 1st homeplanets affected by catastrophic events (the event file is without high events).
I am going to continue this until all systems will be destroyed, probably the homesystems are the Last systems standing?

Fyron

September 17th, 2003, 07:44 PM

I ran tests on this stuff many months ago. Conditions can NEVER fall below 0.00. Conditions modifying events, facilities, etc., all add. There is never any multiplication (even in finite resources games). As stated before, conditions are stored in a variable that can only ever range from 0.00 to 1.50. You can never get a number lower or higher than this range. Any event that would drop or raise it out of this range instead drops it to 0 or raises it to 1.50, depending on the nature of the event (same for facilities). Planets with deadly conditions can most certainly be raised, it can just take a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

About events... it would make sense that the value be divided by 100, so that an event with 20 becomes 0.20. This would effectively subtract 20 from the conditions value. However, it seems that the value instead might be getting divided by 10, which would make it drop the conditions value by 2.0, dropping it to 0.00 no matter what the starting conditions were. If this is the case, it seems like a bug to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I ran tests on this stuff many months ago. Conditions can NEVER fall below 0.00. Conditions modifying events, facilities, etc., all add. There is never any multiplication (even in finite resources games). As stated before, conditions are stored in a variable that can only ever range from 0.00 to 1.50. You can never get a number lower or higher than this range. Any event that would drop or raise it out of this range instead drops it to 0 or raises it to 1.50, depending on the nature of the event (same for facilities). Planets with deadly conditions can most certainly be raised, it can just take a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

About events... it would make sense that the value be divided by 100, so that an event with 20 becomes 0.20. This would effectively subtract 20 from the conditions value. However, it seems that the value instead might be getting divided by 10, which would make it drop the conditions value by 2.0, dropping it to 0.00 no matter what the starting conditions were. If this is the case, it seems like a bug to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Hmm, I would still believe there is a multiplication, at least for the conditions, the only problem being 0.0 (In such cases, 0.1 *may* be used to calculate the evolution) For instance, the rate to go from 0.0 to 0.3 (The lowest Deadly to the lowest Harsh) is about 40 years (39 years exactly), while you only need 3 years to go from 1.4 to 1.5 So, if it was an addition, there would not be such differences. (An improvement by 0.1 would take the same amount of years, no matter what are the starting conditions)

It is only one example of these situations, as a general rule, the worse the conditions are, the harder it is to improve the conditions. (That does make sense of course) Thanks for the notice about the impossibility to get lower than 0.0, it means you could have improved your planet Oleg, with a lot of patience. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PsychoTechFreak

September 17th, 2003, 08:26 PM

I have found the medium event of the first run:

2417.7 Heavy pollution and poor waste management have causes conditions on Arianna I (homeplanet of Eee) to deteriorate.

It has changed the conditions from mild to deadly in one turn.

EDIT:

Type := Planet - Conditions Change
Severity := Medium
Effect Amount := -20

[ September 17, 2003, 19:27: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Alneyan

September 17th, 2003, 08:34 PM

Here is the answer JLS gave according to GLV in an e-mail concerning this topic: (The quote is issued from the thread: Deadly Conditions)

In the attachments from his email dated Last Friday 9/12/2003. 4.03 events BETA file the planet condition events are now only two and that is at se4 default -5 low with a +10 good event in high

3.02 was -5 -10 and +10.

I guess JLS knew about this condition already. In his note he says �10 event may be to tough and that +10 event to PC will often bring the planet up to optimal. And indeed, it was quite a problem as -20 means Deadly condition for all planets, while you have a chance to remain at Harsh level when you are suffering from the same event but with a value of -10.

oleg

September 17th, 2003, 10:49 PM

I.F. Are you really sure it is always addition ?
The tests posted here point to multiplication. And very strongly.

Fyron

September 17th, 2003, 11:54 PM

Running a test... after 2 cycles, a 1.40 planet is still good. If it multiplied, after one cycle you'd get:

1.40 * 1.03 = 1.442
1.442 * 1.03 = 1.48526
1.48526 * 1.03 = 1.5298...

So... it should get to Optimal in 3 cycles if it multiplies, or 4 cycles if it adds.

ROFLMAO! Turn 2404.6: Plasma instability detected in Ahnalt star! Admittedly, there are only 2 systems, one for my planets and the other for neutrals. But, this at least proves that star destroying events don't absolutely favor non-human systems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Here is my result file:
Conditions Test.txt (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1063835208.txt)

It took only 3 cycles for planet 1.40 to hit Optimal, suggesting that it multiplies. Lets look at planet 1.20. It starts at Mild, and needs to hit 1.30 to be Good.

If we assume it adds, you have:
2401.1: 1.20 Mild
2402.1: 1.23 Mild
2403.1: 1.26 Mild
2404.1: 1.29 Mild
2405.1: 1.32 Good

40 turns to get Good.

If we assume it multiplies, you have:
2401.1: 1.20 Mild
2402.1: 1.236 Mild
2403.1: 1.27308 Mild
2404.1: 1.3112724 Good
2405.1: 1.33506105722 Good

30 turns to get Good.

From my results, we have planet 1.20 becoming Good on turn 2404.1. This, combined with planet 1.40, strongly suggest that Conditions modifying facility abilities do indeed multiply instead of add.

[ September 17, 2003, 22:56: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

September 18th, 2003, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
Oleg, I will email you the Events beta 4.03 file if you want.

Or just use v3.02Thanks, I would like to try 4.03 ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Oleg, I am at 4.05 now >since with 4.04 beta events A plasma instability has been detected within the star [ my Home System ]. Our scientists predict it will destroy itself in approximately 3 years http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Once was one to many for that, so I went again back to the drawing board and reconfigured for another go at the Event Occurrence Percentage tests.
Initially I test play at 50% chance settings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
AI Players main CC is at -50 CBEC or more if you wish. Please see Reference.
I will play out and log at least 250 turns.
It looks like; when playing with No warp will give less (big) events early then a standard game.

Even though there is no explicit flag for bad/good events, SE has a rudimentary check whether event is good or bad.
I based it on this observation: Human HomeWorld can be affected by positive events but not negative.
As playing thru as the Primary (human player) >I do concur fully with this observation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Look for Events 4.05 file in your Email tomorrow
Thanks, I do need the help http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

========
Reference
se4 Abilities/Action (CBEC)
Change Bad Event Chance - System
Value1 = Percentage change in chance for bad event for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 =

[ September 18, 2003, 04:23: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

September 18th, 2003, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
I have found the medium event of the first run:

2417.7 Heavy pollution and poor waste management have causes conditions on Arianna I (homeplanet of Eee) to deteriorate.

It has changed the conditions from mild to deadly in one turn.

EDIT:

Type := Planet - Conditions Change
Severity := Medium
Effect Amount := -20http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif That Event was a bust http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

September 18th, 2003, 07:04 AM

As playing thru as the Primary (human player) >I do concur fully with this observation Even though it is wrong? In my Conditions test, my home star went nova, even though there was a different star that it could have hit. There was no favoring of non-human homeworlds at all going on there.

JLS

September 18th, 2003, 07:27 AM

With respect to Star Destroyed or System Event, we seem to be in agreements there is little protection from this; with default files.

I still am of the firm believe and this may become controversial. That as actually Playing as the Human Player (not relegating this responsibility over to the se4 AI protocol engine in a test or other approach) that a Human Players; rarely if ever will see an Event (to include somewhat low and med) hit his Home World Planet with the default Events files intact.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 06:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

September 18th, 2003, 07:28 AM

They may have some built-in deterrence, but they can and will be hit by any event. I have seen my single HWs hit by every possible type of event...

Oh, and check your email JLS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 18, 2003, 06:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

PsychoTechFreak

September 19th, 2003, 07:45 PM

EDIT: I can not reproduce the situation below any more. After the first plasma instability the new game starts always brought up catastrophic events within the first 10 years. So, HPs are affected... Just in some weird situations on my steam pc, they seem to be safe.
*********************
I guess, I could have found something. It sounds not feasible, but it seems to be true:

I have done 3 tests with different event FREQUENCIES in a 2 system galaxy. With these settings (but the percentages probably are not the problem) :

Event Percent Chance Low := 35
Event Percent Chance Medium := 50
Event Percent Chance High := 100

1) Event frequency high, no high/cat events for homesystem (like my other tests, also like my 800 year sim)

2) Event frequency medium, no high/cat events also

3) Event frequency low, and what should I say? Core instability in the home system after 5 years !!!

EDIT: Correction, now I see plasma instabilities very early with all event frequencies. I don't get what happens with some game starts I see no event, and then almost every turn...

[ September 19, 2003, 19:16: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Fyron

September 19th, 2003, 08:09 PM

Randomness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Note how I got a core instability of my only system (out of two in the galaxy) in the conditions test game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 19:11: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

September 20th, 2003, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Randomness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Note how I got a core instability of my only system (out of two in the galaxy) in the conditions test game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif What events file did you use Fyron.
Adamant, se4 or 4.01?

Fyron

September 20th, 2003, 04:11 AM

It makes 0 difference as to how the actual events (not what is in the files, the actual hard code that handles destroying stars) work... but, it was stock, as that is what I was using for the conditions test. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Jake Monroe

September 22nd, 2003, 07:28 AM

I was playing a silly and pointless game for no reason alittle earlier and I was reminded of this discussion.

I was bored and made a map with one system, a bunch of huge planets, a couple of sphere worlds and several ring worls, with one star. Started with 5 AI empires. After there where only 2 of them left(both at peace with my empire) I got the all mighty Plasma instability detected message And decided to got to war with the Last 2 remaining AIs(I actually got it multiple times after this one, since I only had one star and one system). I decided to take some screen captures just for the heck of it, but I can't upload them to my friend's server right now for some reason.

[ September 22, 2003, 06:34: Message edited by: Jake Monroe ]

JLS

September 22nd, 2003, 12:23 PM

I may be misunderstanding you.
Are you saying, for example: If you have 55 Total Events or just 4 or even one in the Event file this has 0 difference?

Does actual hard code applications; also apply to any individual event demand, after that event is randomly chosen from the event file?

When an event is actually demanded (as per chance settings):
With above numbers; and with only one Star Distroyed event in that file. This may be (1 out of 55) or (One out of 4) or possibly (100%) with one event.

It appears, depending on the file of events count, it does affect overall randomness, what would you say?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 22, 2003, 12:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

September 22nd, 2003, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Jake Monroe:
I was playing a silly and pointless game for no reason alittle earlier and I was reminded of this discussion.

I was bored and made a map with one system, a bunch of huge planets, a couple of sphere worlds and several ring worls, with one star. Started with 5 AI empires. After there where only 2 of them left(both at peace with my empire) I got the all mighty Plasma instability detected message And decided to got to war with the Last 2 remaining AIs(I actually got it multiple times after this one, since I only had one star and one system). I decided to take some screen captures just for the heck of it, but I can't upload them to my friend's server right now for some reason.Agreed, many of us have lost our Home Systems to the se4 Star Destroyed Event, myself included. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

There seems to be no Home System intrinsic se4 protection from this event. However, some have suggested there may be partial intrinsic se4 protection as it relates with Planet high/cat events affecting a Players Home Worlds.

However, that was the first for me in very many of games starts and in that game I was playing at a increased modded 50% chance with only 4 players. When compared to se4 default of Event Percent Chance High of only := 25, I really do expect extream results.
Jack, you found the Star Destroyed with se4 default settings, where you playing at normal Chance pre-game settings of low?

[ September 22, 2003, 12:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

September 23rd, 2003, 12:26 AM

I was not talking about chances, but about the effects of the events themselves. A star destroying event functions identically in any mod... (as in, it destroys whatever star the game code decides to destroy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

PsychoTechFreak

September 28th, 2003, 07:05 PM

Another small simulation in a small universe, 40% EPC:
AIC ~ 4.beta 1 events.txt, modified (rebellion events removed)
4 Systems, 2 of them nebulaes, Eee and Fazrah. Due to warp closure event both empires develop without contact.
2611.6 (2116 turns) Both homeplanets and systems still alive, Eee have seen 73 low events, 2 medium events, no high but one early catastrophic event (not at homeplanet) :

2402.1 Planet Destroyed Planetary Minister: Planet Kumanon VIII which resided in the Kumanon system has been utterly destroyed, sire. We had a colony of 6M on the planet.
2402.1 Catastrophic Event An experiment gets out of control on , ripping the planet apart.Immediately after the batch sim, I started a one player game with the same event setup, 2 systems. The homesystem has been destroyed within the first 10 years (star destroyed).
The obvious differences (to me, maybe there are more) : Turn based movement. I have not yet seen a high/cat event at homeplanets in the longterm batch sims (simultaneous movement). It does not mean, the events are excluded in simoultaneous, but I tend to think, there is something that makes these events happen extremely infrequent in simultaneous games.

JLS

October 3rd, 2003, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by JLS:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
One test game is certainly not conclusive, as their is a lot of quirky randomness in the SE4 event generation. Ask PTF. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Agreed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In addition, is some of this quirky behavior from the new wave of Event files themselves? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
With some of the redundennt no matter how modified that event is, we are working into our mods. In essence, even though we may change the effect and or Severity etc this does not change the fact that it is a duplicate and may yield some interesting but extraordinary results.

I found in the early tests of the new and improved reorganized event file the infamous 4.01 beta that some events would expel back to back. And when I started reducing some duplicate events (FOR EXAMPLE �5 PC �10 PC and the dreaded �20 PC to just one -5 PC that this every now and then back to back hit was no longer.
This is fine for a good event like +PC or +PV or even +POP but not good for a duplicate of for example Planet Destroyed or even Close Warp.

I also am going back to basics with se4 event files for a few long and drawn out games, as a refresher on the events also to see, since the se4 Defaut lacks duplicates is there any definable routines.

Then to get back to finishing the current AIC Event file that is not even close to resemble the 4.01beta, to insure that if there is any definable routines; that with in reason this be exclusively for good Events http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>PTF, excerpt from the AIC thread.
And to remind all; that the 4.01 beta is way obsolete almost for more then a month now. The current AIC Event file that is not even close to resemble the 4.01beta, to insure that if there is any definable routines; that with in reason this be exclusively for good Events http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 03, 2003, 17:46: Message edited by: JLS ]

PsychoTechFreak

October 3rd, 2003, 06:30 PM

I just have taken this event file because it was modified already with remarks: Low Event, Medium Event etc.

And I am eagerly waiting for your 4.x Version to start my next solo game ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Just kidding, take your time to release a well-done Version.

JLS

October 3rd, 2003, 06:45 PM

This tweaking of the Events file has given rise to many of another Idea, that may not have been founded.
Thank Oleg, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
for the restuctured Severity event suggestion; it has opened many doors for many more options. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Trust me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Before AIC 4.00 is released I would like you and others to examine the packaged primary Events File http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 03, 2003, 18:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

JLS

October 3rd, 2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
The obvious differences (to me, maybe there are more) : Turn based movement. I have not yet seen a high/cat event at homeplanets in the longterm batch sims (simultaneous movement). It does not mean, the events are excluded in simoultaneous, but I tend to think, there is something that makes these events happen extremely infrequent in simultaneous games.Also to consider and for what this information may be worth as value since this is Theory at its lowest form.

Please consider that moving the Events up and down the list may alter the Event routines. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

For example: with the Original Default se4 Event file shuffle the highlighted out of that order in the events and see if the frequency routines does not change for that or another event. But the event that you had frequent before the shuffle, you may be surprised it is no longer as frequant.

Now also to please consider, by removing or moving any events from a file may yield a very different result from the Last run.

Alss to note: MM does not conform to the severity ORDER...
Stock se4 Events File

Type := Planet - Population Change
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := -50
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Earthquake
Message 1 := An earthquake on planet [%PlanetName] has killed [%ActualAmount]M people.
Picture := FacilityDestroyed
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

Type := Planet - Population Rebel
Severity := High
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Rebellion
Message 1 := The population of [%PlanetName] has rebelled against us and formed a new nation.
Picture := PopulationAngry
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

Type := Planet - Facility Damage
Severity := Medium
Effect Amount := 2
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Meteor Strike
Message 1 := [%PlanetName] has been hit by a rogue meteor. [%ActualAmount] facilities have been destroyed.
Picture := FacilityDestroyed
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

Or the:

Type := Star - Destroyed
Severity := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 :=
Message 1 :=
Picture := StarDestroyed
Time Till Completion := 30
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Plasma Instability Detected
Start Message 1 := A plasma instability has been detected within the star [%StarName]. Our scientists predict it will destroy itself in approximately 3 years.

Type := Warp Point - Closed
Severity := High
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 :=
Message 1 :=
Picture := WPClosed
Time Till Completion := 5
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Warp Point Fluctuation Detected
Start Message 1 := [%WarpPointName] is fluctuating from gravitational shear forces. Our scientists conclude it will collapse within 0.5 years.
*END*

[ October 03, 2003, 19:30: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

October 3rd, 2003, 11:22 PM

None of the files are in any order save the order MM added stuff to the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

JLS

October 3rd, 2003, 11:53 PM

I mention the Stock se4 events also because of the Severity bug that was expressed; �if a file is not in the correct order stating at low thru Catastrophic, that Players will be unable to shut down the SEVERITY OPTIONS� from the se4 games. I was wondering when somebody was going to MOD this for the se4 Players. However, if you feel that moving the Highlighted Events in belows post with out testing and will have no effect then, Fyron maybe you should add a new and corrected with Ordered Events file as to preserve the integrity of the Severity Options for stock se4 and release it, This would only take a few seconds to reorder and release http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 03, 2003, 23:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

Wardad

October 4th, 2003, 12:12 AM

Are homeplanets affected by high/catastropic events?

YES!!!!

YOUR RACE WAS BORN THERE. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

JLS

October 4th, 2003, 12:16 AM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif What race is that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I thought my race came from Ireland http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PsychoTechFreak

October 4th, 2003, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif What race is that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Mankind? I still hope this catastrophic event could be just the result of a simulation that somebody might reshuffle in a few billion years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

JLS, the regarding event file (4.1b) has got the correct order from low to catastrophic, the only modification that I have done to it is, I changed the title line of the upcoming Messages to observe the upcoming severities of the events. Oh, and I have removed the rebellions, just to keep the original race numbers.

EDIT: Oh, I see.

I found in the early tests of the new and improved reorganized event file the infamous 4.01 beta that some events would expel back to back. And when I started reducing some duplicate events (FOR EXAMPLE ?5 PC ?10 PC and the dreaded ?20 PC to just one -5 PC that this every now and then back to back hit was no longer.
This is fine for a good event like +PC or +PV or even +POP but not good for a duplicate of for example Planet Destroyed or even Close Warp. 

[ October 04, 2003, 17:35: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS

October 5th, 2003, 01:49 AM

Thanks PTF

Fyron

October 5th, 2003, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by JLS:
I mention the Stock se4 events also because of the Severity bug that was expressed; �if a file is not in the correct order stating at low thru Catastrophic, that Players will be unable to shut down the SEVERITY OPTIONS� from the se4 games. I was wondering when somebody was going to MOD this for the se4 Players. However, if you feel that moving the Highlighted Events in belows post with out testing and will have no effect then, Fyron maybe you should add a new and corrected with Ordered Events file as to preserve the integrity of the Severity Options for stock se4 and release it, This would only take a few seconds to reorder and release http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Umm... Oleg posted one for stock a while back when he posted that reordered AIC events file... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Grand Lord Vito

October 5th, 2003, 07:12 PM

I noticed there is a lot of event testing here on this thread.

PTF have you tested to see if what Oleg clams is even the case that if the events are not in a proper order that we can’t adjust the severity.

If this is the case then we are all playing with a defective stock se4 event file we received when we purchased Space Empires.

Fyron
I could not find any so called fix for the stock se4 event file that has the severity reordered by Oleg or anyone else.

Fyron

October 6th, 2003, 12:55 AM

Several people tested and verified Oleg's claims...

You can make your own fixed file if you are unable to find the one Oleg posted. Just reorder the events in the file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 05, 2003, 23:55: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Grand Lord Vito

October 7th, 2003, 02:15 PM

I looked at the site for MODS on the MM site that you maintain maybe you could post the stock se4 reordered event MOD there Fyron so we all may get it, because I can't find Olegs stock se4 MOD anywhere.

PsychoTechFreak

October 12th, 2003, 12:00 PM

Some more extended tests with 2 systems, high event frequency have shown that home(master-) planets and their systems are excluded from high/cat events in simultaneous ONLY. With classical movement they are affected by high/cat events very early. I am absolutely confident about it now. You could try to test it also if you like:
Maximum Number Of Systems := 10, NoAI mod, change events.txt to one or two catastrophic events like the core/plasma instabilities, event freq. to 100. Create 2 system maps with 2 players and see the differences in turn based and simultaneous...

Since the different handling between classic move and simultaneous does not look like to be intended, I plan to ask MM about this result. Anything else regarding events that I could ask along with this? I think there are a lot of questions resulting from lucky trait, fate shrines also, right?

PsychoTechFreak

October 26th, 2003, 06:42 PM

I have got an answer from MM regarding catastrophic events and homeworlds:

In both (sim and turn-based) a players' HW (or their first HW) is immune from catastrophic events. It was too devastating to have the HW obliterated by an event. The immunity has not been in the early Versions of SEIV.

Well, I can YES this for all of my longterm simultaneous games, but not for turn-based (this seems to be a *cough* bug *cough* in turn-based). Another strong reason to play simultaneous.

JLS

October 26th, 2003, 08:39 PM

PTF, what about High events, what are your thoughts here as it effects the HW?

Is it still true there is no protection what so ever; from the Star Destroyed Event?

Fyron

October 26th, 2003, 08:43 PM

Is it still true there is no protection what so ever; from the Star Destroyed Event? Absolutely!

PsychoTechFreak

October 26th, 2003, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
PTF, what about High events, what are your thoughts here as it effects the HW?

Is it still true there is no protection what so ever; from the Star Destroyed Event? Aaron did not mention high events directly, but indirectly as an affirmation to my observations. In simultaneous I have seen no high and catastrophic events effects at (first) HW, never, even no system events which could destroy the 1st HW. That's what he affirmed positively.

And yes, if the Star Destroyed event is a high or catastrophic event then it will never happen in 1st HW systems, but it is save just under simultaneous movement. Fyron, I guess what you might have seen has happened in turn based.

EDIT: What I am not quite sure about is if this goes for the AI also, because he talked about the players HW.

Its true for both Simultaneous and Turn-Based games. A players' homeworld
(or their first homeworld) is immune from catastophic events. We had this
in for early Versions of the game but took it out. It was too devestating
to have your home planet obliterated by an event.

Aaron

I wrote:
> Hi MM,
> Extensive tests have shown that the first homeplanet (in a multipl
> e planet start game the one which is displayed first) seems to be excluded
> from high and catastrophic events. The same goes for the system events whic
> h could affect this planet (like star destroyed). But the above observation
> has been proved (or at least I think so) just for simultaneous movement, t
> he first homeplanet would be not save under turn based movement.
> > Could
> you shed some light on this topic, please? It is a very important question
> for Proportions and AICampaign based games, because the homeplanets play a
> essential role there.



[ October 26, 2003, 19:38: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

JLS

October 26th, 2003, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Aaron did not mention high events directly, but indirectly as an affirmation to my observations. In simultaneous I have seen no high and catastrophic events effects at (first) HW
What I am not quite sure about is if this goes for the AI also, because he talked about the players HW. [/QB]Agreed and I believe this High/Cat HW protection also applies to the AI as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PsychoTechFreak

October 26th, 2003, 09:43 PM

I have inserted the original mail into my Last post, just in case of my language ability could have failed on this important issue.

PsychoTechFreak

October 27th, 2003, 07:05 AM

I assume that captured 1st HWs would be not protected by this rule, because they are nobodies 1st HW any more. So, if you see a HW exploding, next question would be if it has been a captured one.
What happens if a captured HW would be taken back by the origin race? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif I don't think so.

Fyron

October 27th, 2003, 07:10 AM

Once the HW changes control (either to another race or being glassed, under no control), it loses HW status. It can still have the "homeworld" colony type, but that is meaningless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PsychoTechFreak

October 27th, 2003, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by JLS:
That is a good question. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If one was to capture another Races Home World and then wanted to [set colony type] to a Mining Colony from Home World thru [f5 Colonies menu], would se4 allow this? Nope, tested this recently: Message came up "you cannot change the type of your homeworld" or similar.

And some bad news for the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif , the HW saver seems to be ONLY for the human player. I tested some more 2 system NoAI simultaneous games with high event frequency where the star destroying event usually appears within the first 5-8 years. I am always alone after about 5-8 years, send a scout to the other system and it is destroyed. Once I have captured the AIs Homeworld at 2404.1 (tested with F5 if I can change the type, was not possible), and the system star exploded in 2405.0, that means, the AI scientists predicted the event at 2402.0 (the earliest possible event). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

JLS

October 28th, 2003, 02:50 AM

That is a good question. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If one was to capture another Races Home World and then wanted to [set colony type] to a Mining Colony from Home World thru [f5 Colonies menu], would se4 allow this?

Grand Lord Vito

October 28th, 2003, 09:20 AM

I also have seen a Human Players Home System blow up from a Star Destroyed but that was Standard movement not Simultaneous

PTF I think there is a lot of testimonial on this thread that Players have seen the STAR DESTROYED Event effect both Human Players and the AI Home System. Some of the players where SJ, Fyron, JLS, Jake Monroe and me.

Isnt there a scenario that the Human Players Home System does blow up by a Star Destroyed?

I also concur with you and JLS tests that Home Worlds only are NOT effected by High and Cat events.

[ October 28, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

PsychoTechFreak

October 28th, 2003, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
I also have seen a Human Players Home System blow up from a Star Destroyed but that was Standard movement not Simultaneous
It's exactly what I have mentioned a few Posts before, the human player 1st homeworld is excluded from high/cat events ONLY in simultaneous. With standard movement I see the star destroying events in the players HW system within the first 8 years in a 2 system, high event freq. setup.

This is what longterm simulations have shown for high/cat events:

Simultaneous movement:
Human Players 1st HW = NEVER
AI's races HW = YES

Turn based movement:
Human Players 1st HW = YES
AI's races HW = YES

This is status of the current Version, keep in mind Aaron said the players' HW has not been save in the early Versions. OTOH, he also mentioned it would be the same for turn based and simultaneous, which can not be affirmed for turn based, so I would say it is not intended (bug).

[ October 28, 2003, 20:17: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Shadow1980

January 13th, 2005, 11:01 AM

Just to destroy any conlusions you guys have made about this, in our current PBW Game "Shalex" I am playing the Earth Alliance and I have received the "Star Destroyed" event for my Home System. I have an absolutely appauling start position on the map, being cornered and having empty systems next to my home system so I actually only have 2 Systems in total currently. (ouch!)
This is obviously a simultaneous movement game, I am a human player and the event occured in my Homeworld/starting system. I am currently desperately creating 3 fleets to ensure the survival of my race, I am heading to the systems of my allies (far away, so using long range ships with solar collectors)
I was blessed with a Colony research so have the option to colonise the planets that my Ally can't :< A long shot but I hope my empire survives, I am leading majorly in tech's so falling back a few turns with that isn't a big deal. Just need to make replacement mining/refining colonies to support my prometheus light cruisers.

Anyways point being, Human Player homeworlds have NO protection.

Shadow1980

January 13th, 2005, 11:02 AM

I guess I should mention that this was SEIV Gold 1.91, no mods other then purely graphical ones.

geoschmo

January 13th, 2005, 12:04 PM

Has anyone seen a catastrophic event actually hit a homeworld specifically? This is a long thread and I haven't read it all, so maybe it's been posted. I'm not talking about the star beign destroyed, but the planet itself. Has anyone had a homeworld have it's core go unstable and blow up?

See I suspect that there is some protection coded in to protect the master home world from catastrophic events. This would explain why it seems to be impossible to take one using PPP. Intel and random events are related, probably use some of the same code.

But probably the game just isn't smart enough to realize that by blowing up the star in your home system it's also blowing up your home world. That's just another object in the system with the star at that point. Ownership of planets in the system doesn't transfer to the star in that system as far as the game is concerned.

Fyron

January 13th, 2005, 02:45 PM

It is easy to see. Set event chance to 100, start a game with just you and 10 planets, wait 21 turns. You can even remove all of the non-catastrophic events.

NarfsCompIsBack

January 14th, 2005, 01:48 AM

Huh. Some of the text here shows up larger than normal. Refresh didn't fix it.

Kamog

January 14th, 2005, 04:34 AM

Well, I have never had my homeworld destroyed, nor have the sun in my home system blow up. Actually, I've never had a star of any of my colonies ever blow up in all the games I've played. I usually set the events to catastrophic, low frequency. The worst thing that's happened is have some of my non-homeworld planets blow up.