PBW Strategy Guide (Help Please)

[SpaceBadger]

Originally posted by Atrocities:

Player Set Up
1. Best use of Racial Traits
2. Best use of Bonuses
3. Best Culture (Standard SEIV)
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a copy of an article written by Fyron that pretty well sums up the min-max approach to race setup under unmodded SEIV. I don't remember where I got it, but I expect you could get it from Fyron (or if he approves but does not have a copy ready to hand, I could post it for him).

SpaceBadger

[primitive]

Think you need to specify a bit more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
What is wise for a 2 player game in a small universe (KOTH), may be totaly wrong for a large multiplayer game with room to spare.

The only thing I can say for sure:
Originally posted by Atrocities:

5. Expansion / Exploration
a. Best way to go about this - fast or slow
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As FAST as possible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by SpaceBadger:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Atrocities:

Player Set Up
1. Best use of Racial Traits
2. Best use of Bonuses
3. Best Culture (Standard SEIV)
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a copy of an article written by Fyron that pretty well sums up the min-max approach to race setup under unmodded SEIV. I don't remember where I got it, but I expect you could get it from Fyron (or if he approves but does not have a copy ready to hand, I could post it for him).

SpaceBadger</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well it was on SpaceEmpires.net... go ahead and post it, as I don't think I have a local copy of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[SpaceBadger]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Well it was on SpaceEmpires.net... go ahead and post it, as I don't think I have a local copy of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Here it is. I also emailed you a copy of it.

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Min-Maxing the Empire
The Art of Free Points

Written by Imperator Fyron

So, you want to know how to maximize the strength of your empire? Well, the best way to do that is to start off on the right foot.

First, let us look at Cultures:

Never take the default Neutral culture unless you want a handicap. There are several cultures that just provide bonuses, without any penalties at all. They are infinitely better.

Truly, the best culture is Berzerkers. It gives a 10% bonus to combat offense and defense. Combined with Aggressiveness and Defensiveness characteristics, this nets a 30-35% bonus to all ships! Sure, the culture gives penalties to resource production, research, intel, etc. But, the superior combat performance makes those immaterial. The only other culture worth considering is Merchants for the 5% maintenance bonus. Combine that with a 115 Maintenance Aptitude, and you can get 5% maintenance rates for your ships for 1500 points, as opposed to 2500 points for a different culture getting 120 Maintenance Aptitude. Note that the lowest maintenance rate you can get is 5%.

Now, let us take a look at each racial characteristic and trait to see how they measure up:

Physical Strength: This trait affects the strength of your troops in ground combat. It is a useless trait. I suggest dropping it to 50 without giving it a second thought. This gives 800 points, and all you have to do is use 2x as many troops, which is not hard at all to make up for in-game. Raising this trait above 100 is most assuredly a waste of points.

Intelligence: This trait affects how many Research points your empire generates. It is a good one to raise. 110 or 120 is a good level, depending on how many points are available to design your empire. It is a good place to put extra points you may end up with after designing your empire, as is Mining Aptitude.

Cunning: This trait affects how many Intelligence points your empire generates. If you do not care about sabotaging your enemy, dropping it to 50 is not a bad idea. Counter Intelligence is very overpowered. CI 3 causes points in it to be worth 360% of what they normally would be. With a 50 Cunning, this essentially drops to 180% (as you make half as much intelligence). But, that is still quite sufficient to effectively block all projects against you unless you are in the most overwhelming of situations. If you still want to do offensive intel, you can drop Cunning to 80 and get 500 points back. This still leaves you with plenty of intel points.

Environmental Resistance: Every 5 percent in this trait raises or lowers planetary Reproduction Rates by 1%. This is a min-maxers wet dream, as you can get tons of free points with no averse effects at all. Each full 5% lowered drops RR by 1%. Lowering ER by 4% has no effect at all. 100 free points. If you drop ER to 81 and then raise Reproduction to 103, you get default Reproduction Rates, and 400 free points! If you drop it to 51 and raise Reproduction to 109, you get default Reproduction Rates and 565 free points! There are minor effects on happiness, but they can be offset with the Berzerker culture.

Reproduction: This adds/subtracts directly to planetary Reproduction Rates. See Environmental Resistance for a method to get 565 free points.

Happiness: This trait modifies the rate at which anger levels are decreased each turn. I suggest not raising or lowering it if you take the Berzerker trait. If you lowered Environmental Resistance, you will want some bonus to happiness. Berzerkers gives a 5% bonus here. If you pick a different culture, you might want to consider spending 100-125 points in Happiness to get 104 or 105, to return anger levels to a normal level. Of course, it is easy to keep planets jubilant with troops. 100-120 Police Troops (small troop with only a cockpit, add Electric Discharges if an Organic race) will keep them jubilant under all but the most dire of circumstances (such as losing 200 ships and 50+ planets within a year or so).

Aggressiveness: This gives an offensive combat bonus to all of your ships to hit enemy targets. Setting it to 120 or 125 is a very good idea for optimal combat performance. 120 is good in 0, 2000 or 3000 point games. 125 is good in 5000 point games.

Defensiveness: This gives a defensive combat bonus to all of your ships to be hit by enemy targets. Setting it to 120 or 125 is a very good idea for optimal combat performance. 120 is good in 0, 2000 or 3000 point games. 125 is good in 5000 point games.

Political Savvy: This trait affects the resources and such you get from other empires through trade. Generally, it is better to rely on the resources your own empire can make instead of trade, as you never know when the politics of a game will shift and your long-time trading partners are now enemies. In games with small maps, it is best to set it to 50 and get 800 points out of it becuase there will not be much production from trade anyways. In medium or larger maps, I usually set it to 80 and get 500 points from it, then set those into my Mining Aptitude trait.

Mining Aptitude: This affects how many minerals your empire produces. You want it to be at least 120, as minerals are the single most important resource in the game. It does cost 100 points after 120, but is still worth it. It is a good place to put extra points you may end up with after designing your empire, as is Intelligence.

Farming Aptitude: This affects how many organics your empire produces. Organics are essentially worthless to all non-Organic races. Setting this to 50 is not a bad idea, and it nets 800 points. If you are an Organic race and plan on using lots of organic armor and weapons, setting it to 80 may be a better idea, as you will need more organics. That still nets 500 points.

Refining Aptitude: This affects how many radioactives your empire produces. Radioactives are more useful than organics, but still not used nearly as much as minerals. Setting this to 50 is not a bad idea, and it nets 800 points.

Construction Aptitude: This affects the rate of all Space Yards in your empire, on ships, bases and planets. You will want it at least at 120, as fast construction is necessary for optimal empire performance. I usually set it to 122 because Berzerkers gives a -2 penalty to construction, and this nets a 20% bonus, making the math easier. Also, with a 20% bonus, you can get colony ships built in 4 turns instead of 5 with Ion Engines II at Base Space Yards.

Repair Aptitude: This affects the rate of repair of your ships and bases. All of the repair abilities of the planets, ships and bases in a sector are added up, and then multiplied by this amount in decimal form (0.50 to 1.50), and then rounded down. I set this to 52 because Berzerkers gives a -2 repair penalty. Repair bays are cheap to research and really cheap to build. All that having a 50% penalty means is that you need 2x as many of them. So, you need 10 instead of 5. For 780 points, that is certainly worth the extra 2000 minerals or so you have to pay for the extra repair bays.

Maintenance Aptitude: This affects the base maintenance rate of your ships. The default is 25%. Each point in Maint. Apt. lowers that by 1%. So, 110 Maint. Apt. costs 500 points and makes the base maintenance rate of your ships 15%. That is a 40% reduction in maintenance paid, for very few points. Each point in Maint. Apt. costs 200 points after 110. It is still useful to raise it, but not nearly as good as getting it to 110, and points could be better spent elsewhere (such as 8 points in Minerals Aptitude).

Now, let us look at the Advanced Racial Traits:

Advanced Power Conservation: This is a worthless trait. 1000 points, and your ships use 25% fewer supplies. Certainly, a poor investment.

Mechanoids: This trait is not worth 1000 points. All it does is make you immune to plagues. But, Medical Technolgy is not that hard to research, and who makes heavy use of plagues anyways? At worst, let the colony die and recolonize the planet.

Lucky: This is another worthless trait. Do not take it if you wish to be competitive.

Natural Merchants: This is a nice trait, but not really worth 1000 points in my opinion. A spaceport takes up a small fraction of the total facility slots in a system, and you only save 3 turns by taking this trait for getting resources from a new system.

Propulsion Experts: Now this one is a good trait. Speed is very important in combat. This is not as valuable as Advanced Storage Techniques or Hardy Industrialists, but is a good 3rd choice.

Ancient Race: This trait can be very useful, as it allows you to see where all ruins are and get to them first. It allows you to see where all your enemies are by looking for homeworld type planets. I would not take it over Advanced Storage Techniques, Hardy Industrialists or Propulsion Experts myself, but it is still a good trait.

Advanced Storage Techniques: This is a must-have trait. At only 1000 points, it gives you 20% more facility spaces. That translates to a 20% bonus to all resource production, research, intel, etc. It also gives you 20% more cargo space and 20% more population space, but that does not matter much in the long run.

Hardy Industrialists: This is another must-have trait. It gives you a 25% bonus to all planetary Space Yards. It stacks with Construction Aptitude. So, with Hardy Industrialists and 120 Construction Aptitude, you can get a 45% bonus to all planetary Space Yards! As mentioned early, fast construction is the key to victory. Without it, you will very easily fall behind. It is of course possible to win without this trait, but it is much harder, especially if everyone else has it.

Emotionless: This trait is certainly not worth 3000 points. If you take it, make sure to set your Happiness characteristic to 50 so you can lower the cost of Emotionless to 2200. Taking this trait means you give up the 10% bonus from Jubilant happiness on your planets. This is a big bonus overall, and it is really easy to keep planets happy with Police Troops (small troop with only a cockpit, add Electric Discharges if an Organic race). 100-120 such troops will work fine in most situations.

Racial Tech Traits: These are fun to play with, and can give you some nice bonuses. But, taking them does not really help the min-maxing approach.

I shall provide you with a sample min-maxed empire file designed for a 2000 point game. It is located here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1066511490.zip).

Written by Imperator Fyron
Copyright © the author, used with permission on Spaceempires.net All Right Reserved.
Published on: 2003-08-04

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Edit: fixed link for Fyron's example emp file

[ October 19, 2003, 00:33: Message edited by: SpaceBadger ]

[Fyron]

The link to the empire file is defunct. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

sample minmax empire.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1066511490.zip)

[Atrocities]

I was wondering if we could all pull our resources and use our many talents and devise a good PBW Strategy Guide for new and even not so new players using our own preferances and information that is already available.

PBW Strategy Guide

Player Set Up
1. Best use of Racial Traits
2. Best use of Bonuses
3. Best Culture (Standard SEIV)

FIRST 10 Turns
1. Start Researching
a. What is the best thing to begin researching
b. Research Order

2. Start Designing
a. Typical Design types
b. Retro-series designs - how they work
c. Best designs early (Thru Ship Construction 4)

3. Start Construction
a. What should be constructed first early game

4. Stategic Colonization
a. Colonies what from the start
b. What to build on new colonies

5. Expansion / Exploration
a. Best way to go about this - fast or slow

6. Diplomacy
a. War or Peace early on best way to proceed if both occur

FIRST 50 Turns
FIRST 100 Turns

[primitive]

Much good advise here, but I got to challenge this:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Hardy Industrialists: This is another must-have trait. It gives you a 25% bonus to all planetary Space Yards. It stacks with Construction Aptitude. So, with Hardy Industrialists and 120 Construction Aptitude, you can get a 45% bonus to all planetary Space Yards! As mentioned early, fast construction is the key to victory. Without it, you will very easily fall behind. It is of course possible to win without this trait, but it is much harder, especially if everyone else has it.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fast construction is handy, but not a must. What you need is for the HW to be able to build a colonizer with 2 engines on EB (if you keep repair high enough for 3 units/turn) to get the 1 turn colonizer start. Using available moons and small planets for shipyards, it is no problem to get construction capacity large enough to use all your available resources.

Faster construction does not improve the performance of your empire a bit, the best result you can get is having that new design ready a few turns earlier. Put the points where they can make a differense insted; research, mining, combat bonuses or maintanance.

[Fyron]

Fast construction vastly improves the performance of your empire, as you can get more ships built in less time. This allows overwhelming of enemies (or keeping up if they have the same construction rates), replacing lost forces quickly, etc. Why do you think the Space Yard technology is so expensive? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also, if you go with Monoliths (for a vastly superior economy in the long run), you can get them built in 3 turns at planets with a Space Yard II and 1 M population with just a 34 percent bonus to SY rates, whereas you can never get them built in less than 4 turns with no bonus in SY rates without lots of population (2 billion in fact) on the planet. A 12 percent bonus will let you build them in 3 turns with Space Yard III, but those are much more expensive to research. Please tell me how that does not improve the performance of your empire?

Furthermore, higher SY rates help you get stellar manipulation ships built a lot faster, which is definitely a big plus. Say the ship costs 100k minerals. You are building at a planet with 1 M pop and a SY III (for simplicity of calculations). That will take you 34 turns with no SY bonus (100k/3k). But with that 45% bonus to SY rates, you can build it in 23 turns (100k/4350).

[Joachim]

PBW Musts:

1. Create and upload your empire correctly and select a ship set that is not a double.

2. Emergency build colony ships straight away.

3. Always train your ships and fleets.

4. Always research cloak detection tech (usually hyper optics) and launch a sat in every system with it.

5. Always trade for colony techs if you can.

6. Allies are good - your own systems are better!

7. Storms hide enemy ships: destroy storms in your systems, but hide in the enemies'.

8. Never invade Russia in Winter http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Just some of the things I live by in PBW.

Lv'e seen some checklists floating around the forum before. It would be good for for your guide Atrocities, if we had these sort of lists for each stage that you identified.

[geoschmo]

Fyron and Primitive both state compelling arguments, although they both are a little too absolute in their statments. Too many "never" and "always" statements for my taste. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But their discussion does point out that although there are many ways to the same objective, the key is fast expansion by whichever means best suits the rest of your overall play style. The fast expansion part is not optional, unless winning is also optional for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[primitive]

Hardy Industrialist:
I only object to the “Must Have” label. As Geo says, it’s all a matter of playingstyle. Personally, putting those 1000 points in resource production or research, I can outproduce, outresearch and outbuild what I could have done with using those points for HI.

I do not suggest taking no construction bonuses at all, I usually take somewhere between 10 and 20 %, but I never take Hardy Industrialist (expect in full tech games). Paying attention to detail there is no problem having enough SY capacity in all stages of the game to handle any available resource production.

Fast construction vastly improves the performance of your empire, as you can get more ships built in less time. This allows overwhelming of enemies (or keeping up if they have the same construction rates), replacing lost forces quickly, etc. Why do you think the Space Yard technology is so expensive?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually: Fast construction will let you have less ships built in less time.
Late game example: Empire 1 is Hardy Industrial and have 500 K Minerals/turn available for building new ships. Average SY constructs with 5 K, Empire 1 can start 100 ships and have them ready in 8 turns. Empire 2 has spent more points on mining/research and have 550 K Minerals/turn (usually it will be more of a difference as computers and stuff will be ready earlier) available. SY is only 4000 on average. Empire 2 can have 137 ships ready in 10 turns.

Also, if you go with Monoliths (for a vastly superior economy in the long run), you can get them built in 3 turns at planets with a Space Yard II and 1 M population with just a 34 percent bonus to SY rates, whereas you can never get them built in less than 4 turns with no bonus in SY rates without lots of population (2 billion in fact) on the planet. A 12 percent bonus will let you build them in 3 turns with Space Yard III, but those are much more expensive to research. Please tell me how that does not improve the performance of your empire?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It’s again a matter of playing style, but personally I always jump directly from SYI to SYIII. If focusing the extra punch of the fast producing/researching empire on SY’s, It can have SYIII ready by the time the HI empire have SYII. And i do suggest taking enough bonus to be able to build Monoliths (with SYIII) in 3 turns.

Furthermore, higher SY rates help you get stellar manipulation ships built a lot faster, which is definitely a big plus. Say the ship costs 100k minerals. You are building at a planet with 1 M pop and a SY III (for simplicity of calculations). That will take you 34 turns with no SY bonus (100k/3k). But with that 45% bonus to SY rates, you can build it in 23 turns (100k/4350).
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">True, Building those hugely expensive things you only need a few of, is an example where the HI empire has an advantage. But again, the “better” empire can start construction of those first ships a few turns earlier, and will also have more valuables to waste on retrobuilding.

So, IMHO:
Hardy Industrialist: Definitely not a game winner, but not a total waste either.

[tesco samoa]

Happiness can be dropped to 50 or 51 ( Asmala style ) and this will not affect anything if you build troops on every planet.

Which frees up another 800 points for otherstuff.

This has been tested. I would like the min max to be updated with this info.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Happiness can be dropped to 50 or 51 ( Asmala style ) and this will not affect anything if you build troops on every planet.

Which frees up another 800 points for otherstuff.

This has been tested. I would like the min max to be updated with this info. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting. A tiny domed planet only has room for 20 troops. Are you quite sure that is sufficent to prevent rioting on those worlds?

EDIT: Also it occurs to me that this strategy could be devastating if you happened to start close to anoter empire. A few relativly minor battle losses early on before you manage to research troops and you are chipped beef on toast. It may be the risk here is not worth the 800 racial points you get in return.

[ October 20, 2003, 16:30: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Asmala]

If you drop your happiness to 50%, you need only five troops to each planet to nullify the effect.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Asmala:
If you drop your happiness to 50%, you need only five troops to each planet to nullify the effect. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So the five troops nullifies the effect of dropping your happiness level, but what is the number of troops needed to account for battle losses? The five troop garrison will be the minimum level needed to keep the people happy when nothing bad is happening. But, for example, if at normal happiness levels your planet needs 20 troops to keep from rioting when things go badly, by lowering your happiness level you will need 25 troops, more then will fit on a tiny domed planet. I don't know the answer, I am simply asking if this has been taken into account.

[tesco samoa]

geo this is in context to the min max system that we have here.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
geo this is in context to the min max system that we have here. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I understand the context Tesco. My point is that I am not convinced that the risks of lowering your happiness characteristic are not worth the 800 racial points you get back for it. Unless you can show that there is an easy method to overcoming those risks I don't suggest incorporating such an idea into a generic min/max suggestion. Simply saying, "build five more troops on each planet" isn't going to work if there isn't room for five more troops.

At least if Fyron is going to add this he should put in a strongly worded warning that any sort of battle losses will potentially cause great havoc within the empire.

[Atrocities]

I for one never fiddle with the happiness or environmental settings. To risky in the event an enemy fleet takes one of your worlds.

Troops are great, but you need a whole hell of a lot of them, as well as ships in orbit, and UPC III to keep the peace if you use a lower happiness setting.

I agree, a strongy worded warning should be included with any info governing the reduction of happiness to gain points.

Basically put, playing with happiness is bad mojo IMHO.

[Fyron]

Funny that noone had any objections/suggestions when I first put this on the web some 2 months ago... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

that's because people spot problems based on time.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Funny that noone had any objections/suggestions when I first put this on the web some 2 months ago... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your right, but we are here now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif