Idea for future PBW - Conceptual Empires

[Taera]

Do you still remember SE3? When designing an AI you had to create a specific set of two weapons. Well, how about we expand this and try this in SE4? Basicly, players choose several weapons and are restricted to them.

This is inspired by the Torpedo Question (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=010355;p=2) topic, it would be interesting to actually test the usefulness of certain weapons in combat rather than on paper.

I know PBW is down, but sometime it will come back.
Anyone?
Settings, as well as specific sets of weapons, can be discussed here.

[Cyrien]

Ok. So each person chooses two weapon sets that their empire will use exclusively? So that is two weapons techs? Or two types of specific weapons? IE: Temporal Weapons gets you lots of different types of weapons but is a single weapon tech.

[Taera]

im not sure about the number of weapons. say four? that, or your racial weapons. or ban racials alltogether.

[Cyrien]

Also do non-damaging weapons count? Is wormhole or tractor counted as a weapon pick? How about PD?

I think what we really need is a list of weapons that can be chosen and those that can't and others that are maybe freebies (if any).

[ November 11, 2003, 14:01: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

[Deathstalker]

Or even better yet...a set number of 'points' to spend and each weapon is worth a number of points, that way you could pick a few big weapons but have to do without others....only problem is rating the weapons, (probally work on a scale of 20 points and then rating each of the weapons on a scale of 1-10, ex PPB's are worth 10 points while DUC's are worth 4 and Plasma Missiles are worth 3....etc)

[Taera]

Good idea, i'll do that if i know that at least a few people are interested.

[Cyrien]

I would be interested in that. But you would have to be carefull in rating those weapons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Taera]

im priding myself with the belief i hold the secret of balance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Admiral Wunderbar]

Indeed a good idea! In particular, I was thinking of adding specific ships to each empire. I guess that coupled with unique weapons will be more interesting.
And... what's the secret of balance?

[Taera]

i could tell you, but then i would have to kill you.... balancedly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

special weapons ruin the purpose, i think

i'll build the chart tomorrow

[narf poit chez BOOM]

'balance' is what happens when you point yourself straight up.

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by Taera:
i could tell you, but then i would have to kill you.... balancedly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

special weapons ruin the purpose, i think

i'll build the chart tomorrow <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He mainly spoke of special ships, rather than special weapons. After all, the weapons are likely to be different from one Empire to another, so they could be quite unique. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I would be interested, if I do find the time to play yet another PBW game that is.

[Cheeze]

Maybe rather than point systems (which is no doubt better and allows more creativity), you could allow no more than one weapon that fires every turn per ship.

That might affect combat strategies and results somewhat, and would almost certainly increase the usefulness of shield regenerators. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

The viability of shield regenerators is directly dependent on the expected survival time of a ship that has been hit already.

Combat with small numbers of ships, and weapons with damage scaled way down.
SE3 made regenerators quite useful. Up to the point where there were over 5-10 ships on a side, at least.
After the fleets start getting huge, you just have to go for sheer hitpoints in order to block more fire for your teammates before you die in one round.

Adding bulk to ships, such as with the P&N BuckytubeGel components helps too.
Given the choice of damaging 3 ships or completely vaporizing one, the side who picks the former can overcome much greater odds.
When the enemy is spreading out their fire, and your ships don't get instantly destroyed, regenerators can have time to work.

[ November 14, 2003, 01:31: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Taera]

Okay, here is the list of weapons, divided into MAIN and SUPPORT Groups.
My first proposal is that players choose one of each.
However, weapons can be divided into MAIN, HEAVY and SUPPORT and players would have to choose one of each.
Alternatively i can rate them on a point-based system.

Should i translate the abbrevations?
MAIN
DUC
APB
MB
PPB
Torpedoes
NSP
GH
CSM/PM
High-Energy

Support
Tractor/Repulsor
SDepleter/SDistruptor
ID/Ionic Missile
Planetary Weapons (including plague)
Comp Combat+Warp Guns (i dont know, both are rather high-leveled weapons, but can be quite devastating en-masse i think)

Further thoughts:
</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Design a mod which would scale mounts down</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Game should be played with MED tech start</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In the same mod move weapons that are too high up the tech tree down</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Increase base cost of PPB to 10k, or make it into 12 levels</font><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ November 14, 2003, 02:46: Message edited by: Taera ]

[Fyron]

Wouldn't making a mod defeat the original purpose of the game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Taera]

agree

[primitive]

The Horde wanna play. Only need rusty (yet pointy) spear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Seriously:
Shield depleters are the single most powerful offensive weapon in the game and definitely not in the same class as your other support weapons. It should either be Banned http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif or been given a lot of points.

Medium tech start:
I would suggest a low tech start with 5 or 10 planets instead. With that many starting planets the research is done in no time anyway, and the penalty for having a bad starting location will be less.