Post 1.84 beta history

[Mephisto]

Version 1.85:
1. Fixed - AI players were giving away technology too easily.
2. Fixed - There was a limit of 5 neutral players in a game. Now the amount of
neutral players is based on the values in the Settings file.
3. Added - 4 more neutral races.
4. Fixed - AI was not taking into account bonus resources for scrapping.
5. Fixed - Changed Population Transport minister so that it takes population
to lowest populated planet regardless of distance and also taking
into account if a pop transport is already heading to the planet.
6. Fixed - Problem with AI checking its existing ship's orders.
7. Fixed - The race setup screen no longer errors if an empire ship picture is
not present.
8. Fixed - "Change Bad Event Chance - System" ability was not working right.
9. Fixed - "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" ability was not working right.
10. Fixed - Planets would not recalculate their sight values when a new facility was
built (this would make planets with cloaking abilities not light up cloak
button).
11. Fixed - A cloaked planet would still show its name for the option "Show Planet Names".
12. Fixed - Rebelling planets would double their population.
13. Fixed - Simultaneous different machine multiplayer games now require that a game
master password be provided.
14. Fixed - In the Select Package screen, clicking in the package list would not reduce
the resources by the x10000 or x100000 amount selected.
15. Fixed - Integer Overflow if a finite resource planet had too large a value.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
Version 1.85:
...
4. Fixed - AI was not taking into account bonus resources for scrapping.
5. Fixed - Changed Population Transport minister so that it takes population
to lowest populated planet regardless of distance and also taking
into account if a pop transport is already heading to the planet.
6. Fixed - Problem with AI checking its existing ship's orders.

....
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Superb !!! That should fix most AI problems in Proportions mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I may return to work on AIs again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

Now if we can just get the 'number of engines' thing fixed to be consistent and get the AI to actually USE "Max Engines" so that you don't need to have one design for every size class in QNP mods...

[Asmala]

"Move Hundred" in Transfer Cargo window would be nice too. Is Aaron already conscious about this? I don't want to disturb him if he already knows this.

[se5a]

what about being able to send more than one message, ie being able to give a gift and receve one in the same turn.

[jimbob]

any chance we can have satelite "formations"?
yeah, probably just post this in SE:V thread...

[Loser]

*near whimper*
hotkeys?

[Atrocities]

2. Fixed - There was a limit of 5 neutral players in a game. Now the amount of
neutral players is based on the values in the Settings file.

Fricking awsome, ya baby ay!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

7. Fixed - The race setup screen no longer errors if an empire ship picture is
not present.
8. Fixed - "Change Bad Event Chance - System" ability was not working right.
9. Fixed - "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" ability was not working right.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And a follow up thank you Aaron and the beta testers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ November 29, 2003, 04:31: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[se5a]

5. Fixed - Changed Population Transport minister so that it takes population
to lowest populated planet regardless of distance and also taking
into account if a pop transport is already heading to the planet.


this is my fav one.
I always let the ministers handel these things.

[Kamog]

This is great stuff! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Q]

Excellent news!
This will be a great patch and a big improvement of the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
Thank you so much MM.

[Fyron]

So where is the Version history for 1.86? Surely it must have come out by now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Atrocities]

Yes, must have info, need info, will die without it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Prince Xizor]

Looking real good so far, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[geoschmo]

No 1.86 yet.

[gregebowman]

Is this available, or is this thread just for beta testers? I was just wondering when and where I can download this from.

[Atrocities]

"The year is 1987, and NASA launches the Last of America's deep space probes. In a freak mishap, Ranger 3 and its pilot, Capt. William 'Buck' Rogers, are blown out of their trajectory into an orbit which freezes his life support systems...and returns Buck Rogers to Earth five hundred years later...."

In the year of 1987 the United States launched the Last of NASA's deep space probes. On board Ranger 3 is a lone astronaut, Captain William "Buck" Rogers. However, the spaceship has moved from its planned orbit, and instead of being gone a few months, it returns to Earth five hundred years later. Captain Rogers is placed in a deep hibernation by forces beyond his control, and remains frozen at the controls until the year 2491. The ancient lost ship is found perfectly preserved by fighter craft of the Draconian Empire, who fire on Ranger 3, then tow it to their alien flagship, The Draconia. After being revived, Buck meets Princess Ardala and her ship's commander, Kane. Although Ardala is supposed to be on her way to Earth on a peace mission, in reality she is preparing to invade the planet, one that has long been the enemy of her race. They use Buck, who still thinks that his entire alien encounter is nothing but a dream, by sending him ahead to Earth to discover the location of a safe corridor through Earth's defenses. The ploy works because of a transmitter aboard Buck's ship that sends back Messages with the corridor's location. Buck finally realizes that he actually has travelled into the future after meeting Col. Wilma Deering and Dr. Elias Huer, but the Earth Defense Directorate considers him to be a traitor when the transmitter is found on board Ranger 3. In an attempt to clear himself of a death sentence, Buck returns to the Draconia and pretends to join Ardala and her army, in the process learning of the plans to invade Earth. Buck decides that he must stop the attack, no matter what the odds. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have the old movie comic book laying around someplace. I ordered it when I was in the fourth or fifth grade.

[oleg]

So, this will be the part of the offical SEIV history after patch 1.86 ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JLS]

It would be nice to have the AI end wars easier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 01, 2003, 17:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

[dogscoff]

Oh yeah, I got that patch-anticipation feeling all over again. I'd almost forgotten what it felt like...

[Prince Xizor]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
I have the old movie comic book laying around someplace. I ordered it when I was in the fourth or fifth grade. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Speaking of Buck Rogers, guess what's on Sci-Fi tomorrow starting at 11 eastern? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I see that "Planet of the Slave Girls" will air first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

where are you guys getting those lists?

[Fyron]

Beta testers get such lists when a new beta patch comes out.

[Prince Xizor]

So there isn't any non-disclosure agreement swearing them to secrecy?

[jimbob]

oh, well if there's going to be a 1.86, lets get satelite formations in there! We can't go on to SEV before we've solved the satelite clump problem! hehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Prince Xizor:
So there isn't any non-disclosure agreement swearing them to secrecy? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sort of... there was before the game was released. I do not know the details, but I do know that they gave the go ahead to post the Version history files for beta Version. Nothing wrong with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Prince Xizor:
So there isn't any non-disclosure agreement swearing them to secrecy? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Considering that Shrapnel staff will sometimes post beta patch lists..no point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

Posting these updates has been a long standing tradition of this forum. A most enjoyed, and welcome tradition at that.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[deccan]

If the patch is not finalized yet, I have a couple of requests:

1) Make it so that ships can ram fighters and satellites in strategic combat, as they can in tactical.

2) Fix the bug in the simulator that gives a stack of fighters only the amount of supplies that a single fighter has.

[Prince Xizor]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Sort of... there was before the game was released. I do not know the details, but I do know that they gave the go ahead to post the Version history files for beta Version. Nothing wrong with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. Nothing wrong whatsoever. Another reason for me to love MM. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Posting these updates has been a long standing tradition of this forum. A most enjoyed, and welcome tradition at that.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And a fine tradition it is! Keep it up! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I ask because many of the companies I buy games from, such as Paradox (I have Europa Universalis 2, Hearts of Iron, and soon Victoria), require their betatesters to sign NDAs which prohibit them from discussing the details of a patch until it is about to be released.

[ December 03, 2003, 06:06: Message edited by: Prince Xizor ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Changed Population Transport minister so that it takes population
to lowest populated planet regardless of distance and also taking
into account if a pop transport is already heading to the planet. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">personally, i'd rather have it transport to the planet with the lowest pop and the highest maximum pop.

[Fyron]

Beta testers had to sign NDAs. But, they were (partially?) released from them at some point.

[Slick]

It would be great if the population minister (PM) also considered the atmosphere of the planet and population when moving races around. If the PM started to do this, I would definitely use him. As it is now, the PM will eventually move wrong-breathing population to planets and thus make them domed. I think adding right-breathing population and removing wrong-breathing population is much more important than building up population numbers. Bonuses for undoming a planet effectively make it 5 times bigger for facilities and cargo. With a couple of other-breathing races in your empire, you can significantly increase your effective empire size without colonizing any additional planets.

The Colonization Minister (CM) should use this idea too. The CM should pick a target planet for colonization, then pick up right-breathing population from a convenient place (not necessarily the planet that constructed the colonizer) then colonize the planet. If the CM did this, I would definitely use him too. Keep in mind that if this method was used by the ministers, it would also improve the AI which is always a good thing.

Lastly, the PM should recognize the "magic numbers" for population as defined in settings.txt. He should try to the max extent to maintain populations of 100, 500, 1000, 2000, 3000, etc. on each planet so as to maximize population bonuses. He should know that a planet population of 1900 is no more beneficial than 1000, but those extra 900 people could better be used to raise other planets to a level of 100 or 500. Aside from undoming planets, this is the whole reason to move population around. Also a planet at max population level can't generate more population and it should be used as an available source of population.

As it stands I use no ministers because of their inherent flaws. IMHO, the PM and the CM would do the most to cut down on some of the micromanagement required in this game and recognizing planet atmosphere types is crucial to improving them. Though I wouldn't turn on the CM until mid-late game because choice of the right planets to colonize in the early-mid timeframe is too important.

Slick.

[ December 03, 2003, 14:50: Message edited by: Slick ]

[se5a]

good point slick...

[Fyron]

Lastly, the PM should recognize the "magic numbers" for population as defined in settings.txt. He should try to the max extent to maintain populations of 100, 500, 1000, 2000, 3000, etc. on each planet so as to maximize population bonuses. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can ameliorate this by adding in 1% bonus levels as opposed to just the 10% that are there now. I made a "Smoothed Pop Settings" minimod that did this quite some time ago and emailed it to MM, but I guess he didn't like it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

or maybe MM is going for a sort of minimum approach to the files to minimize confusion for new players. if people want something more complicated, they can mod it in.

or at least, that's my guess.

[Fyron]

Bah. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Rollo]

*bump
and some news:

Version 1.86:
1. Added - "AI Tag ##" abilities for use in getting AIs to use specific components.
2. Fixed - Improved Empire placement using the "Evenly distributed through the quadrant" option.
3. Fixed - AI would purchase ships even if it had no resources available.
4. Fixed - Cloaked unit Groups would not show a dotted circle around them.
5. Added - Empire style directory label to the Empire setup window.
6. Fixed - AI would still try to launch units when its maximum units in space had been reached.
7. Fixed - The name of the current item under construction should show how many as well.
8. Fixed - Drones were not inflicting special damage types.
9. Fixed - Decreased seeker damage factor required to move to next target.
10. Fixed - You could build designs which had mounts of higher technology than your empire.
11. Fixed - AI would build all of the same colonizer type in a given turn.
12. Added - Mousewheel support to lists.

[Instar]

mousey wheels
wheeeeeeee
oh ya, us betas get this info. Usually richard goes ahead and does it. So I guess its ok

[Fyron]

1. Added - "AI Tag ##" abilities for use in getting AIs to use specific components. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">*drools*

5. Added - Empire style directory label to the Empire setup window. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yay! My suggestion made it in! Mac will like this one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Now we just need the vehicle size and target type fields to accept comma separated lists, and Adamant will be ready to rock and roll! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ December 04, 2003, 04:13: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

9. Fixed - Decreased seeker damage factor required to move to next target.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">huh?

Fyron: humbug.

[Phoenix-D]

5. Added - Empire style directory label to the Empire setup window.

zuh?

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
5. Added - Empire style directory label to the Empire setup window.

zuh? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The game should display the name of the race folder next to the shipset images when you are scrolling through them. This should come in very handy for PBW for people that haven't memorized the namaes of all their shipsets. Now, why he said "empire style" is beyond me...

[deccan]

Originally posted by Instar:
mousey wheels
wheeeeeeee
oh ya, us betas get this info. Usually richard goes ahead and does it. So I guess its ok <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How about making all lists (construction, ships, colonies, planets) remember their places, instead of just the events list?

[oleg]

Originally posted by Q:
"8. Fixed - Drones were not inflicting special damage types."

That's strange. I used frequently drones with special damage weapons and as far as I have seen it without problems. What kind if special damage did not work?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">May be it was an artifact in the intermediate 1.85 patch, beta-testers find it and now it is back to normal ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Q:
That's strange. I used frequently drones with special damage weapons and as far as I have seen it without problems. What kind if special damage did not work?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">On their warheads - sure, a drone could fire a nullspace projector or an ionic disperser, but you couldn't create a working nullspace or anti-ionic drone warhead! Hmmm... drones with the Allegiance Subverter's damage type... Borg assimilation probes, anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Great list of changes BTW! I'm actually starting to dread the coming of Christmas because the sooner it comes, the less time there is to add and fix stuff! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Q]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Q:
That's strange. I used frequently drones with special damage weapons and as far as I have seen it without problems. What kind if special damage did not work?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">On their warheads - sure, a drone could fire a nullspace projector or an ionic disperser, but you couldn't create a working nullspace or anti-ionic drone warhead! Hmmm... drones with the Allegiance Subverter's damage type... Borg assimilation probes, anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Great list of changes BTW! I'm actually starting to dread the coming of Christmas because the sooner it comes, the less time there is to add and fix stuff! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you for this explanation Ed.
The Borg assimilation drones were exactely one of the examples I use frequently, but as you said not with a warhead but a weapon component.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Q:
"8. Fixed - Drones were not inflicting special damage types."

That's strange. I used frequently drones with special damage weapons and as far as I have seen it without problems. What kind if special damage did not work?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No. Special damage types have never worked with drone warheads. I have wanted to be able to build 'plague drones' for years and it is only now possible. Now I can infect entire systems in a single attack... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And just think of the other possibilities! Tachyon warheads to make weapon-neutralizing drones for starbase assault! (Drones go in and kill the weapons before your ships have to go in...) Or neutrino warheads to neutralize shield generators! Ionic warheads carried by super-fast drones to disable ships' engines and let your slower ships catch them! "Smart bomb" drone warheads to let you knock out space ports or resupply depots without even having to send in ships! Quad damage to shields and null-space are some other cool damage types for a drone warhead, but I can't think of any 'special' tactics they would allow. Just standard combat uses like ordinary explosive warhead.

[ December 04, 2003, 23:15: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Q:
"8. Fixed - Drones were not inflicting special damage types."

That's strange. I used frequently drones with special damage weapons and as far as I have seen it without problems. What kind if special damage did not work?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No. Special damage types have never worked with drone warheads. I have wanted to be able to build 'plague drones' for years and it is only now possible. Now I can infect entire systems in a single attack... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And just think of the other possibilities! Tachyon warheads to make weapon-neutralizing drones for starbase assault! (Drones go in and kill the weapons before your ships have to go in...) Or neutrino warheads to neutralize shield generators! Ionic warheads carried by super-fast drones to disable ships' engines and let your slower ships catch them! "Smart bomb" drone warheads to let you knock out space ports or resupply depots without even having to send in ships! Quad damage to shields and null-space are some other cool damage types for a drone warhead, but I cna't think of any 'special' tactics they would allow. Just standad combat uses like ordinary explosive warhead. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But why do you need warheads for such designs ??
You can achive the same with weapons on drones.
Mod short-range, high damage, 30-turn reload Versions of all those special weapons that can be used on drones only. Problem solved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[AMF]

I think I found a bug (or, at least, I view it as a design flaw):

I am running a PBEM game. I log in Last night as the GM and process the turn. Haflway through the processing, up pops a modal window that says "Cannot mothball ships that are carrying cargo" This goes on four times (one for each cargo-carrying ship that was ordered to mothball)

Ok, I understand that, and I just hit OK until it stopped giving me the error and in the end it looks like the turn processed fine.

However, this would cause PBW games to hang, no? And shouldn't this warning just be put into the players event log rather than pop out at the GM processing level?

Thanks,

Alarik

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by alarikf:
However, this would cause PBW games to hang, no? And shouldn't this warning just be put into the players event log rather than pop out at the GM processing level?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, because PBW games are run from the command line, not from within the game menu the way you did. Running the game from the command line you have an option that allows you to skip all Messages. That's how PBW turns are run. The drawback of course is that the game owner doesn't know if the player uploaded an incorrect .plr file or something. But without that option someone would have to sit by the PBW server 24/7 and wait for error Messages to popup. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by oleg:
But why do you need warheads for such designs ??
You can achive the same with weapons on drones.
Mod short-range, high damage, 30-turn reload Versions of all those special weapons that can be used on drones only. Problem solved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, not really. More like Problem avoided. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Your way works of course, but what some people wanted to be able to mod was a standard single use, damage-on-impact drone with the special damage types. The 30-turn reload weapon on a drone will get to come back and fight another combat round.

[Loser]

Plague drones: simultaneously making two rarely used technologies very tempting.

[AMF]

I'm shocked, simply shocked, that you don't sit in front of the PBW server 24/7. Yeesh, what is the world coming to? he he.

Originally posted by geoschmo:
But without that option someone would have to sit by the PBW server 24/7 and wait for error Messages to popup. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[rextorres]

Originally posted by alarikf:
. . .And shouldn't this warning just be put into the players event log rather than pop out at the GM processing level?

Thanks,

Alarik <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually it would be cool if all errors of this type were done when you hit end turn. So that you correct errors like this.

[farstryder]

Originally posted by Loser:
Plague drones: simultaneously making two rarely used technologies very tempting. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I use drones. They're very useful to buy yourself time against a larger enemy force. Most human opponents are unwilling to traverse a "wall of drones" warppoint unless they're sure they can come through intact. Ans most players, given the rarity of drone use, are stymied by them. They simply don't know how to react.

As far as offensive force goes, Plague drones would be quite useful. I hadn't quite thought that one all the way through. Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Asmala]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
No, because PBW games are run from the command line, not from within the game menu the way you did. Running the game from the command line you have an option that allows you to skip all Messages. That's how PBW turns are run. The drawback of course is that the game owner doesn't know if the player uploaded an incorrect .plr file or something. But without that option someone would have to sit by the PBW server 24/7 and wait for error Messages to popup. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It would be great if there was an option in PBW that it won't process the turn if one of the plr files is incorrect. I think it wouldn't be a big work for MM to add that to SE.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Asmala:
It would be great if there was an option in PBW that it won't process the turn if one of the plr files is incorrect. I think it wouldn't be a big work for MM to add that to SE. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, it probably would be easier for Malfador to make that change in Se4 then it would be for us to get PBW updated to take advantage of it at this point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
It would be great if there was an option in PBW that it won't process the turn if one of the plr files is incorrect. I think it wouldn't be a big work for MM to add that to SE. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, it probably would be easier for Malfador to make that change in Se4 then it would be for us to get PBW updated to take advantage of it at this point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You think it would require too much work compared to the benefit it gives? Especially now when there's not so long before SE5 comes. (hmm, long is relative concept http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by oleg:
But why do you need warheads for such designs ??
You can achive the same with weapons on drones.
Mod short-range, high damage, 30-turn reload Versions of all those special weapons that can be used on drones only. Problem solved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, not really. More like Problem avoided. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Your way works of course, but what some people wanted to be able to mod was a standard single use, damage-on-impact drone with the special damage types. The 30-turn reload weapon on a drone will get to come back and fight another combat round. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">More importantly, direct fire weapons can MISS. Ramming does not. (Yes, yes... queue rediscussion of whether this is 'realistic' or not in another thread. We're talking about pragmatic game play issues now.) Placing Combat Sensors in a drone to reduce the odds of missing (but still not ENSURE a hit...) is difficult/expensive given their small size. But seekers, and drones are just very big seekers, always hit if they reach the target. Being able to use the special damage types as warheads is the best application for drones.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Rollo:
8. Fixed - Drones were not inflicting special damage types.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yay!
Missle-mod!!

[Q]

"8. Fixed - Drones were not inflicting special damage types."

That's strange. I used frequently drones with special damage weapons and as far as I have seen it without problems. What kind if special damage did not work??

[se5a]

can MM put some specialwarheads into the vanila?
please?

[Atrocities]

I have never tried it, but can you ram a planet?

[Kamog]

I just tried it, and yes you can ram planets.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
I have never tried it, but can you ram a planet? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's how anti-planet drones work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ed Kolis]

I was having trouble getting fighters to ram planets in strategic combat... yes, I know that's a dumb tactic, but this was a a game where pretty much everything but shield depleters, boarding parties, fighters, and drones are taken away... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Loser]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
I was having trouble getting fighters to ram planets in strategic combat... yes, I know that's a dumb tactic, but this was a a game where pretty much everything but shield depleters, boarding parties, fighters, and drones are taken away... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Furball 5?
Has to be.

[Rexxx]

I'm really not up to date so forgive me if it is asked before:

Vers. 1.86
11. Fixed - AI would build all of the same colonizer type in a given turn.
Will that prevent those endless rows of "wrong" colonizers the Aquilaeians built in MB's AI contest?

Two more topics from the contest:
Will the AI now take the bonus into account when it comes to colonization?
Will design rotating still take place?

PS:
Thanks to Xaren Hypr for finding an error in the EEE-files and to Mephisto for correcting it in the TDM-files. I know that was months ago, but better late than never...

[Asmala]

Any news about new (beta) patch?

[Rollo]

uhmmm, you must be psychic... this just came out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Version 1.87:
1. Added - "Move Hundred" to Cargo Transfer window.
2. Fixed - In Simultaneous games, scanned enemy ship designs would not be saved.
3. Fixed - "Max Positive Anger Change" and "Max Negative Anger Change" were being
used as percents instead of tenth of percents.
4. Fixed - Ships were not receiving experience for kills made with seekers.
5. Fixed - Increased the population amount for the storehouse in combat simulations.
6. Fixed - The Small Graviton Beam is now under the Gravitational Weapons tech area.
7. Fixed - Mothballing would not generate a log message in simultaneous games and would
show a messagebox instead.
8. Fixed - Unmothballing would not generate a log message in simultaneous games.
9. Fixed - Converting resources would not generate a log message in simultaneous games.
10. Fixed - The Abandon Planet order would not generate a log message in simultaneous games.
11. Fixed - Intelligence reports on planets were not showing the cargo they contained.
12. Fixed - In Computer Versus Human games, the AI's would get negative happiness modifiers
on treaties (Partnership) they were forced to have.
13. Fixed - AI's would continue to propose the existing treaty in a Computer Versus Humans game.
14. Fixed - In the Combat Simulator, any player that has a base or a planet will start in the
center of the combat map.
15. Fixed - The Fleet Report window's list will now respond to the Mousewheel.
16. Fixed - The component list in the Tactical Combat window will now repsond to the Mousewheel.
17. Fixed - The Add Design window's components available list will now respond to the Mousewheel.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

5. Fixed - Increased the population amount for the storehouse in combat simulations.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">huh?

[PvK]

Narf, in the combat simulator, when you set up the scenario, there is a finite amount of population available to set up the scenario with. It's been increased.

PvK

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Any news about new (beta) patch? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">nope. the current Version is still 1.86

[Atrocities]

15. Fixed - The Fleet Report window's list will now respond to the Mousewheel.
16. Fixed - The component list in the Tactical Combat window will now repsond to the Mousewheel.
17. Fixed - The Add Design window's components available list will now respond to the Mousewheel. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hot damn, this one has been one of my suggestions from the onset of the games beta release. Tis great to see it fixed. Thanks Aaron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Grandpa Kim]

3. Fixed - "Max Positive Anger Change" and "Max Negative Anger Change" were being used as percents instead of tenth of percents. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is huge!!

No more going from Jubilant to Riots in one turn!

[Q]

Thank you very much for posting the new fixes. This will be indeed a great patch and confirms my opinion that SE IV still has a big potential for improvement.
Can anybody explain what
"12. Fixed - In Computer Versus Human games, the AI's would get negative happiness modifiers
on treaties (Partnership) they were forced to have."
means?
How do you force a AI to make a partnership??

[ December 21, 2003, 06:01: Message edited by: Q ]

[Slick]

I think it probably refers to the game setup option to have all AI vs. all humans. I guess the game forces them into a partnership, which, depending on their individual happiness files, may make them angry. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Slick.

[Phoenix-D]

In vs AI games, the AIs will ALWAYS have Partnerships with each other. Every single one of them. They also automaticlly declare war on all the human players.

[Q]

Oh yes, that makes sense. Thank you Slick and Phoenix-D for the explanation.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Rollo:
...
4. Fixed - Ships were not receiving experience for kills made with seekers.
... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow ! This is GREAT !!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Asmala]

1. Added - "Move Hundred" to Cargo Transfer window.
2. Fixed - In Simultaneous games, scanned enemy ship designs would not be saved.
3. Fixed - "Max Positive Anger Change" and "Max Negative Anger Change" were being
used as percents instead of tenth of percents.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And it's only a bit over week when I posted these! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Impressive, thanks Aaron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

Still waiting for those comma separated lists for Vehicle Type and Target Type in Components.txt. Come on beta testers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Still waiting for those comma separated lists for Vehicle Type and Target Type in Components.txt. Come on beta testers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't see this one very important. Current combinations are enough for most situations and if you want a different one just make two components.

[Fyron]

Umm... it would have a huge impact... there are a lot of vital combinations that are not currently allowable. Making 2x to 5x as many components is hardly a good solution. Even if you don't like it, many people would, and it is not a major code change, just a minor one.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Even if you don't like it, many people would, and it is not a major code change, just a minor one. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can't disagree that it would have pretty significant impact, and I agree it would be nice to have. But I am not sure how you can say it's a minor change. It might be a minor thing to have it read a comma delineated list, but the actual function of those variables in the list has interpreted. Depending on how the current code is written that could be a mojor bear. Don't really know, but you can't really either I think.

That being said, it has been requested. Hopefully it will get done.

Geoschmo

[Asmala]

2x to 5x so many components? I thought there are only few components which would need a special combination. But I agree it would be a minor code change so perhaps it's coming.

[Fyron]

The code to read in and interpret comma separated lists is already written. Check out CompEnhancement.txt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
2x to 5x so many components? I thought there are only few components which would need a special combination. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Adamant Mod for one could really make use of this... weapons, engines, armor, etc. could all use a comma separated list, rather than All or having 5 separate entries. Scale mounts and all. P&N PBW Version could also benefit from this directly.

Even just a few simple ones could open up many modding possiblities without having to unnecessarily duplicate lots of components, such as Sat\Base, Ship\Drone, Ftr\Sat, etc. But, adding in more of these would be silly. Just make them allow comma separated lists and you get all combinations in one swoop.

[Ed Kolis]

We are the knights of se4...

We demand... the COMMA SEPARATED LISTS! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And we will say se4 until you give them to us!

se4 se4 se4 se4 se4

(in other words, pretty please? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[Baron Munchausen]

I don't think the difficulty is in parsing the list of allowed targets. I think the difficulty is in how combat code handles the target selection restrictions. If he wrote it a certain way and has to completely re-write it to allow comma seperated lists instead of fixed choices he runs the risk of introducing bugs. He might not want to run that risk at this late date.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
I don't think the difficulty is in parsing the list of allowed targets. I think the difficulty is in how combat code handles the target selection restrictions. If he wrote it a certain way and has to completely re-write it to allow comma seperated lists instead of fixed choices he runs the risk of introducing bugs. He might not want to run that risk at this late date. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's what I was trying to say, but couldn't explain it that well.

[Fyron]

Ok... the vehicle type field has none of those issues. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Say... do the latest betas have a different scale for population modifiers than the old one? Aaron said he was going to implement a 1% increment system, for a smoother curve. Just wondering if he put it in yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif If not, please remind him on the beta forum.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ok... the vehicle type field has none of those issues. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, it probably does. But that's kind of the point. The code needed to use a comma delineated list for the vehicle type field in the compenhancments file is not the same part of the code needed for the targetting and vehicle type field in the components file. So it's probably not a simple matter of reusing exsisting code. At least you can't know it is without seeing the code, which none of us can.

Don't get me wrong. The point I was trying to make was not that it wasn't a change worth making, just that you can't say it's a "minor" change neccesarily. You have no idea how complicated of a change it might be.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Say... do the latest betas have a different scale for population modifiers than the old one? Aaron said he was going to implement a 1% increment system, for a smoother curve. Just wondering if he put it in yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif If not, please remind him on the beta forum. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He has not.

As far as I know he doesn't read the beta forums looking for bug reports and requests. He Posts there when he has a new patch, and we discuss things amongst ourselves. Requests posted there aren't likely to get any better response then your emails.

Geoschmo

[Fyron]

You have no idea how complicated of a change it might be.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes I do Geo. Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true.

[Fyron]

He has not.

As far as I know he doesn't read the beta forums looking for bug reports and requests. He Posts there when he has a new patch, and we discuss things amongst ourselves. Requests posted there aren't likely to get any better response then your emails. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well I don't want to keep bugging him about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

I've just done something about it...

Would you forum goers mind playtesting this for me before I send it off to Aaron, its getting late over here.
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/Miscellaneous/smooth_stock_settings.txt

[Fyron]

I made a file like that months ago... I sent it to Aaron, and that is what I was wondering whether he had put it in or not.

It is right here (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=312&ttitle=Smoothed_Pop_Settings#dldetails).

[ December 22, 2003, 04:08: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[dogscoff]

4. Fixed - Ships were not receiving experience for kills made with seekers.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Gloink! That's going to change the nature of weapon choices significantly. I'm fairly sure it will be for the better.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You have no idea how complicated of a change it might be.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes I do Geo. Just because you keep saying that doesn't make it true. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had seen the code and knew exactly how complicated a change it is. The only thing I can't figure out is why you don't just do that change yourself?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Well I don't want to keep bugging him about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't see why not. You have no trouble bugging us continually about it.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had seen the code and knew exactly how complicated a change it is. The only thing I can't figure out is why you don't just do that change yourself? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Sarcastic assery aside, I think the problem here stems from you misinterpreting the term "minor." You obviously use the term for a much smaller degree than I do. Compared to a lot of potential improvements, this is a minor one.

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I don't see why not. You have no trouble bugging us continually about it. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... one question is bugging you continuously? How so?

[jimbob]

hehehehe
I love sarcasm.

[Mephisto]

Version 1.88:
1. Changed - Added in Imperator Fyron's smoothed population modifiers.
2. Fixed - A ship would clear its remaining orders if it tried to load cargo and
it had no cargo space available.
3. Fixed - A colonizer ship will still be counted as available for colonization
even if it has low supplies (but not if it has zero supplies).
4. Fixed - Sometimes an attack force would invade an ally's planet if it was in the
same sector as an enemy planet.
5. Fixed - Occasional Access Violation or Range Check Error from the Combat Replay.
6. Fixed - Component mounts were not being used in retrofit change comparisons.
7. Changed - You must have movement remaining on your ship to create a storm.
8. Fixed - "Remove All" in the Fleet Transfer window would break up other player's fleets.

[Fyron]

That is a nice list of fixes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ah, you just like the first one on the list. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Actually I like most of the others more than number one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif And number one is not a "fix" anyways, but a change.

[dogscoff]

I like the second one off that list. It will make a real difference to order queueing and repeating orders. It will finally be possible to set up proper cargo relays.

Question is, will the final release be Version 1.99? That would mean we have another 11 of these change/fix lists to go (drool) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Spoo]

When you give a ship a move-to order to an unexplored system, the system name is revealed in the ship's order queue.

Cloaked planets still reveal their name.

[Roanon]

Originally posted by Spoo:
When you give a ship a move-to order to an unexplored system, the system name is revealed in the ship's order queue.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup forgot that. Even worse: In the ship´s order queue, a colony ship given colonize orders into a sector of an unexplored system reveals the planet's name if there is one. And, if there are several planets in that unexplored sector, even the dialogue with the planet choice comes up, revealing the number and their pictures.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Roanon:
Yup forgot that. Even worse: In the ship´s order queue, a colony ship given colonize orders into a sector of an unexplored system reveals the planet's name if there is one. And, if there are several planets in that unexplored sector, even the dialogue with the planet choice comes up, revealing the number and their pictures. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, my.

This does not work on systems for which you do not have a warp point, no?

[Roanon]

Works on every system, you just have to click it in the small map to bring up the area with "unexplored" over it in the main window.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Roanon:
Works on every system, you just have to click it in the small map to bring up the area with "unexplored" over it in the main window. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, well, well. It's a poor man's Ancient Race.

Of course, you don't get the stats, or if it's occupied, or even what type of world it is. But you're poor, obviously, and you can deal.

[Roanon]

I don't think it's worth any effort, except maybe in a few special cases I cannot think of now. Would be really bad if you could get data like owner or population. You only can get the layout of the system before officially exploring it, and this with a lot of mouseclicks. If I would have that much time, I would rather start another PBW game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Still, it should be fixed.

[ January 30, 2004, 21:44: Message edited by: Roanon ]

[Grandpa Kim]

Yes, that is a sweetheart list of changes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Say, Fyron, I've never seen your smoothed pop modifiers. Where can I get a look at it?

[Fyron]

Its been up on SE.net since August. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Smoothed Pop Settings (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=312&ttitle=Smoothed_Pop_Settings#dldetails)

[Grandpa Kim]

Thanks Fyron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Apparently my brain is too complex to think of something so obvious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[Kamog]

Wow, I didn't know that you could use that trick to view unexplored systems... I tried it just now, but I very quickly got tired of clicking the mouse in every sector of the system. So I didn't systematically click across in a nice row or column, I just randomly clicked around rapidly, and I didn't hit any planets. Figuring that I might have picked a nebula or black hole or something, I tried a few other systems but I still didn't catch any planets. It will take a lot of patience to take advantage of this method...

[Karibu]

This patch looks very good. When we are gonna have it? If it's said somewhere, I didin't find it...

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Its been up on SE.net since August. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Smoothed Pop Settings (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=312&ttitle=Smoothed_Pop_Settings#dldetails) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I liked it then and I still like it.
I am happy for you and this type recognition Fyron. Outstanding job, keep up the good works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 31, 2004, 13:56: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Captain Kwok]

I actually think it is his second mention in the file, at one point he contributed some formations for large fleets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Paul1980au]

So i wonder if any other features will be added to it and can we expect it soon ?

[Fyron]

Hey, just find little things that can be changed for the better by a few modifications to the data files, and send them in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif No need to be jealous. Other people have had things they sent in added to the game. Several of the older formations are from fan submissions, for example.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Hey, just find little things that can be changed for the better by a few modifications to the data files, and send them in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif No need to be jealous. Other people have had things they sent in added to the game. Several of the older formations are from fan submissions, for example. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's true - I've seen a couple original ideas I've sent in added!

[Atrocities]

Version 1.88:
1. Changed - Added in Imperator Fyron's smoothed population modifiers.

I am so jealus now. That is twice now that Fyron has been mentioned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Seiously, good work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Krsqk]

I'm still waiting for the "Puke's Victory Parade" formation to be added in stock... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Hey, just find little things that can be changed for the better by a few modifications to the data files, and send them in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif No need to be jealous. Other people have had things they sent in added to the game. Several of the older formations are from fan submissions, for example. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif At least your emails get through. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

I am sure yours do too. MM does not always have time to respond to every single email (they do get a lot of them!) if it is not something that requires a response.

[Paul1980au]

To get listen to create a catchy immediate response type headline - then they are more likley to read and act i guess than some bland email ! works with me with customer complaints.

[Fyron]

MM reads every email that they recieve, and tabulates every suggestion into some form of document, so as to keep them around and try to impement the more popular ones and such.

[Mephisto]

Version 1.89:
1. Changed - The Create and Destroy Storm components are now destroyed on use.
2. Changed - Mineral Scanner I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
3. Changed - Hybrid Eco - Farms I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
4. Changed - Radioactives Collider I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
5. Changed - System Mineral Scanner I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
6. Changed - System Eco - Farms I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
7. Changed - System Radioactives Collider I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
8. Fixed - The owner of a minefield would not get a log message if the minefield was completely
sweeped.
9. Added - Added "Race Directory" to the Empire/Race Report.
10. Fixed - When you replied to a demand for a gift or tribute, you were unable to view the package
of the gift or tribute that was demanded.
11. Fixed - Range Check Error upon loading a turn where massive numbers of units were launched the
previous turn.

[Fyron]

2. Changed - Mineral Scanner I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
3. Changed - Hybrid Eco - Farms I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
4. Changed - Radioactives Collider I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
5. Changed - System Mineral Scanner I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
6. Changed - System Eco - Farms I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
7. Changed - System Radioactives Collider I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">About time! Yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Kamog]

That's good.. Now it's not so easy to create hundreds of storms all over the place ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Karibu]

Now I will wait until someone makes conclusive tests over scanner use and robotic factories and provides us them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Or at least mathematical calculations. Hmm... perhaps I should do them myself. Actually, now that I think of it, it could be done by using a little program which counts amount of planets, their sizes (ie. amount of buildings), percentual amounts of every resources/planet and then concludes them with the multiplier when using scanners or factories (also considering the effect of converting excess resources to other resources). I have to think about this little more...

[Fyron]

Well... Monolith makes 900 of each resource. Lets say you have 10 monoliths, so 9000 of each. Now, you have two options: Planet Robotoid III and 2 Monoliths, or one of each of the planet single resource increasers. The first option gives 1800 more of each resource base production, or 10800. 30% increase gives 14040. So it is a 56% increase to production. The second option gives only a 45% increase to production.

Now lets say you have 15 Monoliths. 13500 base production. 2 more and a robotoid provides 19890, a 47% increase in resources. 3 separate resource enhancers still provide only provide 45%. So with 18 facilities, it is better to have 17 Monoliths and a Robotoid.

Now lets look at 17 Monoliths. They make 15300. 2 more and a robotoid provide 22230, a 45.29% increase. So with 20 facilities, it is better to have 19 monoliths and a robotoid.

21 facilities is where it becomes better to have the 3 resource enhancers than the robotoid. 20 Monolith + Robotoid = 23400. 18 Monolith + 3 enhancers = 23490.

Now, if you have an all minerals planet, it is definitely better to have a Mineral Scanner than a Robotoid at much lower facility numbers, since they both take just 1 facility slot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Note: all figures are of each resource type. Since 3 is a factor of both the base resource production and the figures after adding more facilities, it drops out and does not make a difference.

[ February 05, 2004, 06:50: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Paul1980au]

Good to see they react to our suggestions. The overhaul of the modifers with the resource gathers is good.

ANother thing i would like to see emailed is a more dynamic AI trading system ie techs planets etc.

And also is more map choices on startup in terms of sizes at the core of the game. Ie instead of small medium and large

How about extra small, small, average, medium, large, extra large and huge.

ES = up to 20 systems
S = 21-35 systems
A = 36-70 systems
M = 70-100 systems
L = 100-150 systems
EL = 150-200 systems
H = 200 - 255 systems

Just for a bit more variety.

[Karibu]

I general it is like you say Fyron, but you also have to calculate the effect of lackin g2 monoliths (when using scanners) at the system level. There comes the probplem that I don't know how system level resources are calculated. I believe it is either one of these (planet value 90% and 10 facilities):

A) System production of one resource of one planet = (basic facilities output)*(planet resource percent)*(scanner percentual increase)*(system scanner percentual increase) = (10*900)*0,9*1,45*1,45= 17030,25

B) System production of one resource of one planet = (basic facilities output)*(planet resource percent)*(scanner percentual increase) + ((basic facilities output)*((planet resource percent)*(system scanner percentual increase) -1)) = (10*900)*0,9*1,45 + (10*900)*(0,9*1,45 -1) = 11745 + 1570,5 = 13315,5

In the first example the system collector bonus is cumulative with planet collector (1,45^2) and in the second example the system bonus is calculated only from planet output (excluding planet scanner bonus from that).

Now the difference I mean, is that if system scanner bonus is calculated like choise A) it does not matter if there are less monoliths because system bonus is calculated from planet output including planet scanner bonus (total output). The amount of monoliths is significant, if the system bonus is calculated from only monolith output exluding planet scanner bonus like in choise B).

I am not in front of my computer (and game) and I don't remember how this is. Could someone confirm this?

[ February 05, 2004, 07:49: Message edited by: Karibu ]

[Fyron]

The base production is total facility production * planet value. You then add all bonuses/penalties up from modifying facilities, population, happiness, racial characteristics, etc., then multiply the base value by that sum. So say you have a planet with 102% organics value and one Organic Farm Facility. It has 30% bonus from pop and 10% from happinss. It makes (1000 * 1.02) * (1.0 + 0.30 + 0.10) = 1020 * 1.40 = 1428. Throw a Robotoid III on there, it now will make (1000 * 1.02) * (1.0 + 0.30 + 0.10 + 0.30) = 1020 * 1.70 = 1734. You get the best planet affecting enhancement abiltiy that affects the planet, and the best system affecting enhancement ability that affects the planet. So if you have a Robotoid III (30%) on the planet and a System Robotoid III (30%) in the system, you get a total of 60% bonus from the two facilities.

System resource enhancers have the exact same threshhold as planetary ones, as they provide the same bonus and have the same space tradeoff against robotoids. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Now, when you start to throw in build costs, it just gets messy and I will let someone else spend their time on that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ February 05, 2004, 08:02: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
9. Added - Added "Race Directory" to the Empire/Race Report.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wonder what that one could mean... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Maybe a set of little tabs that let you quickly switch between the various races when you're viewing the detailed stats for one race?

Or is it a listing of all the known assets of the selected empire?

Or am I just giving too many new ideas that would be cool to see but aren't really absolutely necessary? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Mephisto:
9. Added - Added "Race Directory" to the Empire/Race Report.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wonder what that one could mean... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Maybe a set of little tabs that let you quickly switch between the various races when you're viewing the detailed stats for one race?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope, nothing that spectacular, but it's a very useful little addition. In the race report that comes up when you right click a race pic or flag in the game, the little screen that tells you their empire information, a new line has been added called "Race directory". This directory is the actual directory name that the empire file was pointing too when it was created, regardless of whether or not you actually have that race directory on your machine. So no more pulling your hair out trying to figure out what custom shipset that guy is using in your PBW game that didn't mark his race properly when he joined. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[Fyron]

So I set a chain reaction... LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Atrocities]

11. Fixed - Range Check Error upon loading a turn where massive numbers of units were launched the
previous turn. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The fighter bug has been fixed finally. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Paul1980au]

Good to see the fighter bug fixed

[Paul1980au]

Is it possible to cloak fighteres - perhaps a scaled down fighter cloaking device. Or the ability to cloak mines ?

[Fyron]

Mines get cloaked automatically. They have the cloaking abilities built-in. You could remove them and then add varying levels of cloaking devices capable of being placed on mines if you want to.

You can add cloaking devices able to be placed on fighters.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
Is it possible to cloak fighteres - perhaps a scaled down fighter cloaking device. Or the ability to cloak mines ? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Mines are already cloaked. No ship/scanner can see mines until either a) you run into them and go boom or b) you have a minesweeping ship and you get the notification in the log saying you swept a mine field.

Edit: Fyron beat me be a nose. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 06, 2004, 18:47: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Paul1980au]

No im talking about the following i have mentioned before

Mines that when cloaked
a) cant be detected - only by advanced mine cloaking detector
b) related to above cant be detected by sweepers
c) if a enemy ship passes through the sector they dont active
d) they when cloaked arent active so to speak
e) only when deactivation do they opearte like normal mines

What i am trying to say is if you are being attacked and driven out of a system - you could leave a few of these claoked or stealthed mines and say 10 turns down the track once the enemy has the system and is moving ships thorugh to the next attack you deactive the cloaking - they operate like normal mines and the next ship to come along gets zapped.

I hope that sounds right ? if cloaked they dont do anything but cant be detected, once decloaked they are like normal mines and need to be swept as such or the ships run into them. Could be used on sabotague missions ie fly into a system leave a cloaked minefield and fly out leave it 10 turns wait for fun to come along decloak and hope they dont get sweap but take out some ships.

[Fyron]

No that is not possible. Mines always detonate against any enemy ship that passes by (or get swept), regardless of who is cloaked or not.

[ February 06, 2004, 18:58: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The base production is total facility production * planet value. You then add all bonuses/penalties up from modifying facilities, population, happiness, racial characteristics, etc., then multiply the base value by that sum. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wrong.

Correct is (total facility production)*(planet value)*(population, happiness, racial characteristics)*(planet bonus facility)*(system bonus facility)

So in that organic farm and robotoid factory example it means: 1000 * 1.02 * (1.0 + 0.30 + 0.10) * 1.30 = 1020 * 1.40 * 1.30 = 1856

[oogs]

I found an interesting glitch.

I'm currently at war with everyone (I think i'm the mega-evil empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), so i'm annihilating their fleets and then using "puppet political parties" to gain control of their worlds. Well, I used it on one planet which separated from the empire to form it's own empire, and then I demanded its surrender (which they accepted). I just checked that planet and it has 1000M/500M population. (The planet also changed type to Homeworld, but that was expected)

I'm checking all the other planets that have be sbujected to this series of events, and so far it has affected them all.

This is using se4 gold 1.84 w/o any mods.

Edit: if you want to see what i'm talking about, I can send you the savegame or try and post a pic.

[ February 07, 2004, 19:53: Message edited by: oogs ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The base production is total facility production * planet value. You then add all bonuses/penalties up from modifying facilities, population, happiness, racial characteristics, etc., then multiply the base value by that sum. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wrong.

Correct is (total facility production)*(planet value)*(population, happiness, racial characteristics)*(planet bonus facility)*(system bonus facility)

So in that organic farm and robotoid factory example it means: 1000 * 1.02 * (1.0 + 0.30 + 0.10) * 1.30 = 1020 * 1.40 * 1.30 = 1856 </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hrm... some people spend far too much time mapping out all of the formulae and not actually playing the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 07, 2004, 20:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Hrm... some people spend far too much time mapping out all of the formulae and not actually playing the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif [/QB]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">uh...ya. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Modding is not the same as spending your time figuring out how you can change the game from a game to a competition. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by oogs:
I found an interesting glitch.

I'm currently at war with everyone (I think i'm the mega-evil empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), so i'm annihilating their fleets and then using "puppet political parties" to gain control of their worlds. Well, I used it on one planet which separated from the empire to form it's own empire, and then I demanded its surrender (which they accepted). I just checked that planet and it has 1000M/500M population. (The planet also changed type to Homeworld, but that was expected)

I'm checking all the other planets that have be sbujected to this series of events, and so far it has affected them all.

This is using se4 gold 1.84 w/o any mods.

Edit: if you want to see what i'm talking about, I can send you the savegame or try and post a pic. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is a long-known anomaly. When you conquer a fully populated planet owned by an empire with 'advanced storage' ability it doesn't carry over the advanced storage ability. So you can end up with planets holding more than their rated population. You can also drop far more troops on a planet than it can hold (regardless of 'advanced storage') simply because putting a limit on troops because of cargo space would make for a defense exploit of filling up your planet's cargo space to prevent invasion. After the invasion succeeds you have to remove the excess cargo to be able to do anything with the space.

[Kamog]

Would advanced storage ability let you store 1000M on a planet which would otherwise hold only 500M? 1000M/500M sounds too much?

[Ed Kolis]

I think it's really a bug that doubles any population on a planet when it rebels; IIRC that was fixed in some beta or another but I'm not a beta tester and I don't want to go searching through this thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Grandpa Kim]

Version 1.85:

12. Fixed - Rebelling planets would double their population. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And here it is! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[oogs]

oh... maybe i need new glasses... i didn't see that one.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
No that is not possible. Mines always detonate against any enemy ship that passes by (or get swept), regardless of who is cloaked or not. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If a mine cannot damage any of the ships present, it will not detonate.

EG: Weapons-only damage warheads on a mine will cause it to sit idle and let cargo ships pass, only detonating when an armed ship wanders by.

[Fyron]

Ok let me rephrase: normal mines, with normal damage warheads, always detonate or get swept, as long as there are still enemy ships to blow up.

[ February 08, 2004, 18:02: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Mephisto]

Version 1.90:
1. Fixed - Descriptions for the Facilities changed in the Last Version were still old.
2. Changed - New title screen bitmap courtesy of David Gervais.
3. Changed - Added black drop shadow to "Version" and "Loading" text on main screen.
4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game.
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
6. Added - "Order By Name" and "Order By Class" buttons to the Scrap window.
7. Fixed - The View Orders window would show the name of unexplored systems.
8. Fixed - Attempting to colonize in an unexplored system would sometimes show the planets in the sector.
9. Fixed - Rare Access Violation bug during Movement Log Replay.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous multiplayer game.
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn. These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
6. Added - "Order By Name" and "Order By Class" buttons to the Scrap window.
9. Fixed - Rare Access Violation bug during Movement Log Replay. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh (bleep) yeah!

This is truely great. Very, very nice. Originally posted by Mephisto:
2. Changed - New title screen bitmap courtesy of David Gervais. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Care to show this off, David?

[ February 11, 2004, 21:03: Message edited by: Loser ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
...
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh My God !!!

It opens so many moding avenues... Pirates & Nomads need a rework ASAP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
Version 1.90:
1. Fixed - Descriptions for the Facilities changed in the Last Version were still old.
2. Changed - New title screen bitmap courtesy of David Gervais.
3. Changed - Added black drop shadow to "Version" and "Loading" text on main screen.
4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game.
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
6. Added - "Order By Name" and "Order By Class" buttons to the Scrap window.
7. Fixed - The View Orders window would show the name of unexplored systems.
8. Fixed - Attempting to colonize in an unexplored system would sometimes show the planets in the sector.
9. Fixed - Rare Access Violation bug during Movement Log Replay. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Aaron, if you're reading this, you're the best developper ever. Forget SE5, that points generation thing will do just fine.

[Phoenix-D]

"4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game."

Whoohoo!

[David E. Gervais]

Originally posted by Loser:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Mephisto:
2. Changed - New title screen bitmap courtesy of David Gervais. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Care to show this off, David? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Patience grasshopper, good things come to those who wait.. (in the meanwhile, if you want to look at a pretty picture, download my Miner's Guild mod and drool over that intro pic.)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Rollo]

Originally posted by David E. Gervais:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Loser:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Mephisto:
2. Changed - New title screen bitmap courtesy of David Gervais. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Care to show this off, David? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Patience grasshopper, good things come to those who wait.. (in the meanwhile, if you want to look at a pretty picture, download my Miner's Guild mod and drool over that intro pic.)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...or check out this little teaser (http://home.tiscali.de/rollo/images/intro_dnm02.jpg) for the new Version of Devnull Mod Gold http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . ...uhmm okay, that was not done by the master himself, only by one of his students http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I'm glad to see Aaron added #5 and #6, two little items I had bugged him about recently!

Can anyone say space lab? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

A great list of changes, but where are those comma separated lists? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I would settle for just expanding the options to contain all permutations if changing the vehicle and target type fields in components.txt to handle comma separated lists would be too much work...

[Paul1980au]

You know he does listen to the fans - this are great changes - but i guess forget SE5 or at least continue updating SE4 until the Version of SE5 comes out - they will still keep getting the revenues from purchases so updates will keep fans interested - perhaps a small charge for each major update is another source of revenues say $3-$5 for Version 2 and Version 2.1 etc. ANd minor patch fixes in between.

[Baron Munchausen]

I'm still hoping for the 'requires ability' restriction for Warp Points. If we get that we can have 'jump engines' and a whole new class of mods with 'star ships' and 'system ships' as seperate types. The only possible disadvantage of this, as far as I can see, is if the AI can't understand the distinction and fleets them together indifferently and/or starts trying to send system ships through warp points.

But even then you could have some very cool games with only human players as intersteller empires and AIs serving as neutrals.

[ February 12, 2004, 00:47: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[Paul1980au]

Im sure aaron and co are working on each upgrade and tweaking the AI to make it tougher with each new feature and upgrade. The require ability is probably best with warp points. Perhaps it could be a racial ability or not ?

You raise some good points for them to consider - well they read the forums anway so its all good. Im sure the game will be much better for it to.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by oleg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Mephisto:
...
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh My God !!!

It opens so many moding avenues... Pirates & Nomads need a rework ASAP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Star Trek Mod 2.0 is really going to benifit from this latest patch when it is released. Or at least I hope it will beneifit from it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
You know he does listen to the fans - this are great changes - but i guess forget SE5 or at least continue updating SE4 until the Version of SE5 comes out - they will still keep getting the revenues from purchases so updates will keep fans interested - perhaps a small charge for each major update is another source of revenues say $3-$5 for Version 2 and Version 2.1 etc. ANd minor patch fixes in between. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope to never see a day when you have to pay for patches. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Paul1980au]

What im talking about is $3-$5 for major patches but the offset would be to lower the games price - this would act as motivation for MM to continue to upgrade the game and support it for longer and they get continous revenues + you only need to buy every 2nd or 3rd patch. Perhaps $25 for the game and $3 for each upgrade - makes the game cheaper for newbies - thats the offset im talking about - but its just discussion thats all.

[Fyron]

MM has already supported the game for over 3 years! It is time to move on to SE5. You simply can not do nearly as much improvement with just upgrades, you have to rebuild the game engine. This requires the next game in the series.

Free patches or bust!

[HEMAN]

Originally posted by Mephisto:
...
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
...
--------------------------------------------------
Oh My God http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ,Q1:Does this mean that you can have orbital bases that can generate research/Intell points,in space http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ??.Q2:But only if a modder implements this in there mod,like dennullven/D-mod/Star trek modes??.

[Paul1980au]

Research intel projects in space - well it would add portability to an empires resource / research / production and intel generating capacity.

Would open up new possibilities for the game. Might even lead to a few new tech areas being expanded and more racial traits into the game.

[Kamog]

Wow, these are nice additions to the game! Intel- and research- generating ships... yeah! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

should make P&N more fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Paul1980au]

You know ship generating research and intel is an idea but perhaps their should be a high maintence cost to offset to make sure the tactic isnt abused but is a viable alternative - perhaps a population requirement.

[Deathstalker]

"5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
"

Ok, wow, awesome, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Now for the big question, does this mean I can finally have planets that generate resources independant of thier facilities. (ie, a planet that houses an ancient alien monestary, provides 1000 research per turn....)

can these points be affected by facilities if added to planets? (ie, the planetary/system bonuses)

What exactly are these points?? (I'm assuming minerals/rads/organics/research/intel but is it possible to add ones that affect a planets 'build time' for items/ships?)

could you have asteroids that generate intel/research when you mine them??

As you see this has piqued my modding curiosity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[dogscoff]

Ditto to what Q just said.


I'm still hoping for the 'requires ability' restriction for Warp Points.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I know. This would be fantastic, but I think it will have to wait until se5, since it would probably risk introducing too many new bugs to se4.
This alteration would be best if combined with an ability that allows ships to hold and launch other ships subject to (moddable) size and component restrictions - That way fighters could simply be handled as small ship hulls with no warp ability - more modding possibilities.


...or check out this little teaser for the new Version of Devnull Mod Gold . ...uhmm okay, that was not done by the master himself, only by one of his students
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And with a viking destroyer in there as well. To quote the man himself: "We thought you would like it. Are not our goods the best in the galaxy?"


does this mean I can finally have planets that generate resources independant of thier facilities.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Probably

can these points be affected by facilities if added to planets? (ie, the planetary/system bonuses)
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe


What exactly are these points?? (I'm assuming minerals/rads/organics/research/intel but is it possible to add ones that affect a planets 'build time' for items/ships?)
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I doubt it, but that would be really really nice.


could you have asteroids that generate intel/research when you mine them??
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">From the wording of the history file I'm thinking no, but it would be nice to have that flexibility.

Finally, I really hope all you wonderful modders are planning how your mods *coughProportionscoughcough* can be improved and updated by all these wonderful new toys once the patch comes out.

[ February 12, 2004, 14:52: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[tesco samoa]

I am also wondering from a map making if that means that we can set these abilities for planets... So a 1 slot planet you can build the yard... and the planet generates resources... Would be really cool for making maps ( and moding the system creation text files for limited resource games.

Which is the way I want the sweet mod to go for the long term vision of the mod.

[tesco samoa]

Will this patch be backwards compatable with current games?

[Atrocities]

OMG! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game."

Whoohoo! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh my. All my prayers have been answered. This alone is the single best change ever to the game, in my opinion anyway!!

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game."

Whoohoo! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh my. All my prayers have been answered. This alone is the single best change ever to the game, in my opinion anyway!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would tend to agree with you there Ruatha! This patch will be truely amazing to play the game with.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Will this patch be backwards compatable with current games? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, as always.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
You know ship generating research and intel is an idea but perhaps their should be a high maintence cost to offset to make sure the tactic isnt abused but is a viable alternative - perhaps a population requirement. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If this is available to anyone then there might indeed be balance problems. If it is used as intended by those of us who have been begging for it (for 'nomadic' races only) they will face the same trade-off as anyone else. Putting too much into research or intel will tend to reduce the amount of resources they can harvest, and so restrain their economic/military power. It's all a question of properly designingthe game conditions where the ability is used.

[Q]

This patch exceeds all my expectations! Excellent work MM!!
Any idea of the release date?
But if MM continues to add such excellent changes to the Last patch as the points generation for components, I am ready to wait for a long time.

[HEMAN]

Q wrote:This patch exceeds all my expectations! Excellent work MM!!
Any idea of the release date?
But if MM continues to add such excellent changes to the Last patch as the points generation for components, I am ready to wait for a long time.-----------------------------------------------------
I agree all the way Man http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . Think of fellow players & modders.Spaceyard-ships in a Nebula or storm opaque secter/systems,Building a Orbital-Base Research/Intell stations,Hidden from ai fleets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif .

[dogscoff]

I am also wondering from a map making if that means that we can set these abilities for planets... So a 1 slot planet you can build the yard... and the planet generates resources... Would be really cool for making maps ( and moding the system creation text files for limited resource games.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You could even design a mod where every planet provides a fixed amount of resources per turn the moment you colonise it, and then you build facilities to modify that amount.

Not sure why you'd want to do that, but it might be cool anyway...

[Paul1980au]

And in the meantime we play PBW and blow each other up and generate new ideas - true nomadic races is an interesting idea and the modders should go near spastic over it.

[tesco samoa]

well dog that would be really cool for a limited resource game... where there are really only a few planets that produce resources... and i am hoping when this little gate gets turned on all the abilities get turned on for objects

[Rollo]

Version 1.91:
1. Changed - Revised title screen bitmap to make the buttons more visible.
2. Fixed - Upgrading just 1 facility would incorrectly upgrade them all.
3. Fixed - Bug from Last Version resulted in huge spikes in intel and research points.
4. Note - Spaceyards will not work on cloaked planets or ships.
5. Fixed - Cloaked planets were allowing you to add multiple spaceyards to them.
6. Fixed - A planet that was damaged and lost its cloaking facility would not decloak.
7. Fixed - A planet that scrapped its cloaking facility would not decloak.
8. Added - You can now use an override field for Vehicle Type in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.
9. Added - You can now use an override field for Weapon Target in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.

[Fyron]

8. Added - You can now use an override field for Vehicle Type in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.
9. Added - You can now use an override field for Weapon Target in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Woohoo! *cries tears of exultant joy*

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Rollo:
Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.
Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">what?

[Fyron]

The current text fields displayed in-game for those 2 data fields is not large enough to display every single possible combination. So, a second line is added.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> 8. Added - You can now use an override field for Vehicle Type in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.
9. Added - You can now use an override field for Weapon Target in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Woohoo! *cries tears of exultant joy* </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well HOT DAMN! Also *cries tears of exultant joy*

[Spoo]

Woohoo! *cries tears of exultant joy* <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> Well HOT DAMN! Also *cries tears of exultant joy* <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">*Spoo brings in box of kleenex and hands them out*

[Ed Kolis]

If you haven't upgraded to Gold yet, and this patch isn't enough to convince you, I don't know what will be!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Atrocities]

Proof is not needed, if word of mouth for this game has not already convinced the hold outs to buy Gold, then nothing will.

BUY GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you already have a copy, BUY A SECOND COPY AS A BACK UP!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Better to be safe than sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

<font color=red>Please for the love of God, include the ability for the modding of weapon so that they can be set to specifically target X component.</font>

[ February 18, 2004, 22:26: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

'and here we see the primitive rituals of this strange tribe, known as 'hardcore SE4G', yelling out praises to their totem. let's take a closer look.'

*rustle, rustle, rustle*

'these sure are strange creatures. there seems to be no definite shape or size. maybe, if we watch long enough, one of them will wander away from the herd and i can catch it.'

[Paul1980au]

You know modding weapons to target x component could raise interesting mods - ie a weaponn to target other weapons type - ie an weapon that targets say engine or shield depleting weapons - add a whole new dimension to offensive and defensive strategies and weapon choices when building ships - would also like to see in the basic unmodden Version and expansion to say another 3 - 5 ship sizes. And also another 2 types of base say 1 type at 1200 KT and another at 2200KT and perhaps an endgame 3500KT.

[Deathstalker]

"4. Note - Spaceyards will not work on cloaked planets or ships"

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

So much for the monsters with thier invisible planets......

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, they can cloak and de-cloak.

[geoschmo]

I believe the devnull mod monsters use bases with the sector obsuration ability. This will not affect the planets ability to build.

[Ed Kolis]

Say... are bases still lumped under "ships" for weapon targeting purposes? Especially now that you can specify vehicle types in a list, it would be kind of irksome if "ships" meant "ships" for design and "ships/bases" for targeting... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

(And wouldn't it be neat if you had a mod where all the bases were really huge compared to the ships, or you want to keep your speed-1 Anti-Base Bombardment Missiles from firing on ships (which can evade them by means of a reverse missile dance), so it would make sense to have weapons that could target bases but not ships (or vice versa)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[tesco samoa]

i know you modders do not really care about this one... but hey how about the map program working... open 5 maps and it hangs...

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
'and here we see the primitive rituals of this strange tribe, known as 'hardcore SE4G', yelling out praises to their totem. let's take a closer look.'

*rustle, rustle, rustle*

'these sure are strange creatures. there seems to be no definite shape or size. maybe, if we watch long enough, one of them will wander away from the herd and i can catch it.' <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know, I am sure the creatures find you equally as destrubing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
You know modding weapons to target x component could raise interesting mods - ie a weaponn to target other weapons types <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is a much needed feature for Space Empires. A must have.

[Paul1980au]

All good suggestions - improving the map program will be helpful as map making is a form of modding - altering the game to try to set up certain types of benefits or balancing etc.

Also with these new improvements - it will spur on updates to mods and map altering programs will need to be brought into line. As will the strategies and the FAQs.

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Deathstalker:
"4. Note - Spaceyards will not work on cloaked planets or ships"

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

So much for the monsters with thier invisible planets...... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">no worries Deathstalker. As Geo already said, the monsters use a sector cloak. So their planets are not actually cloaked, but hidden.

[Loser]

If I beg for more keyboard functionality here will it get me anything?

[Cirvol]

BEST

GAME

EVER


neeeeed this patch quickly - im getting antsy about it - need the fixes - need new multiplayer chaos - need it now please

Aaron or mephisto - plz plz help hook us up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

btw - is it too late for me to get my hands on the 1.91 patch? - i've purchased both games (gold and non gold) years ago - and i've got at least 5 of my friends to buy the games also

i think i should be in beta, even tho its 'too late'

i'm a db programmer / comp sci grad / know all Languages from c# down to cobol and even assembly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif help me out pls!

[atari_eric]

Originally posted by Cirvol:

i'm a db programmer / comp sci grad / know all Languages from c# down to cobol and even assembly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif help me out pls! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Really? How's the unemployemnt line?

[Rojero]

Originally posted by atari_eric:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Cirvol:

i'm a db programmer / comp sci grad / know all Languages from c# down to cobol and even assembly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif help me out pls! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Really? How's the unemployemnt line? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">(Rojero falls on the floor! laughing his Arse off! hehe) ROFL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

<font color=blue>Beta Testers and MM.</font>

Would it be to late to add one more option to game set up that would allow for warp point destinations to be hidden until traversed? This way those of us who want to play a truly exploritory game can.

[HEMAN]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Paul1980au:
You know modding weapons to target x component could raise interesting mods - ie a weaponn to target other weapons types
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Atrocities wrote:
Please for the love of God, include the ability for the modding of weapon so that they can be set to specifically target X component.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Think of it fellow Players, My ship against ai ship,When ai shields are down,Should i target his torpedoes?,or his heavy phased cannons?, NO No,how about those troops compartments?,HMMM maybe ill target his Bridge or fuel supply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif .Or perhaps even his Combat sensers or Ecm.Now this is REALLY REALLITY Tactical space combat for ya http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[ February 20, 2004, 01:28: Message edited by: HEMAN ]

[Fyron]

I think they meant more as in the ability to make weapons that are like engine-damaging weapons, except that you get to pick which ability or family gets damaged, rather than just the ones provided to you. A list of families would be best IMO.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
<font color=blue>Beta Testers and MM.</font>

Would it be to late to add one more option to game set up that would allow for warp point destinations to be hidden until traversed? This way those of us who want to play a truly exploritory game can. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">BUMP

[Fyron]

Email MM! Aaron doesn't read random threads too often, just a few select ones... The chances of your suggestion being seeing go up tremendously (to nearly 100%) if you email them to se4 at malfador dot com.

[bearclaw]

something I've always hoped for and have emailed MM about before, is for the "open Warp Point" event to be active. I've wanted to set up a mod where every turn a random, or small group of random Warp Points would open and/or close.

[Sabin]

Are ideas and bug reports being compiled here? If so, I would like to report what I believe is a bug: Ships cannot be moth-balled as a fleet, or become a fleet after being moth-balled.
(I tend to create "museum" fleets, where old vessels are stored, but they cost resources, unfortunately.)

Also, I would like to have some special terrain added to the space combat aspect of this title, since it may improve how battles work.

Anything else for me to address?...Ah yes, for the design screens for ships and the like, I think that if multiple components are placed on a design, the components would stack and have a number for each picture to indicate how many components are there, instead of the current system where every component is seperate, thus cluttering the design process.

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Sabin:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your Last suggestion can already be done..can't remeber the button offhand buts its on the same screen.

Ships can IIRC be placed in fleets while mothballed.

[Ed Kolis]

Condensed View.

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Email MM! Aaron doesn't read random threads too often, just a few select ones... The chances of your suggestion being seeing go up tremendously (to nearly 100%) if you email them to se4 at malfador dot com. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Excellent point

[tesco samoa]

Beta Testers

I Want " ARE YOU SURE"

when I click on watch all ship movements.

PLEASE

[Atrocities]

I wanna beta test SEV. But I don't know if SEV wants me to beta test it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

go to bed, Atrocities.

[Paul1980au]

We got that new patch yet - are we there yet are we there yet.

From youre neibourhood annoying kid in the backseat are we there yet are we there yet lol.

[se5a]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
We got that new patch yet - are we there yet are we there yet.

From youre neibourhood annoying kid in the backseat are we there yet are we there yet lol. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">**gruble**

read my lips "LAST PATCH - we want it to take as loooooonnnngg as possable because it will get us more stuff."

[Fyron]

Since there are so many Posts here, could a beta tester kindly post the entire history file from 1.85 and on (all of the beta Versions for this as of yet unreleased patch)? It would help tremendously. Thanks.

1. Changed - Revised title screen bitmap to make the buttons more visible. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Does the title screen still look good on resolutions higher than 1024x768? Depending on just how he revised it, the image could create a very funky display on higher resolutions...

[ February 22, 2004, 00:37: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Please for the love of God, include the ability for the modding of weapon so that they can be set to specifically target X component. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why so passionate about this? Don't we already have engine targeting weapons? Having to design ships with a whole bunch of specific weapons sounds like micro management hell. What do you have in mind for this ability anyway?

Now if you want to add a specifc target ability to your strategies.. That would be a good idea!! (ie target engines, then when gone, retreat)

[Baron Munchausen]

The new title screen is loathsome to me, so I will be replacing it with the old one once the patch is 'final'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But.. it looks just the same at 1280X1024 as it does at 1024X768 so I don't think there are any problems introduced beyond the obvious garishness of it. I usually play in 16-bit color, though. Maybe it would look different at 24-bit or 32-bit color?

[Mephisto]

Version 1.91:
1. Changed - Revised title screen bitmap to make the buttons more visible.
2. Fixed - Upgrading just 1 facility would incorrectly upgrade them all.
3. Fixed - Bug from Last Version resulted in huge spikes in intel and research points.
4. Note - Spaceyards will not work on cloaked planets or ships.
5. Fixed - Cloaked planets were allowing you to add multiple spaceyards to them.
6. Fixed - A planet that was damaged and lost its cloaking facility would not decloak.
7. Fixed - A planet that scrapped its cloaking facility would not decloak.
8. Added - You can now use an override field for Vehicle Type in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.
9. Added - You can now use an override field for Weapon Target in Components.txt which
will allow you to use a list instead of a hard-coded value. Another field
is used for the description used in the Components Report.


Version 1.90:
1. Fixed - Descriptions for the Facilities changed in the Last Version were still old.
2. Changed - New title screen bitmap courtesy of David Gervais.
3. Changed - Added black drop shadow to "Version" and "Loading" text on main screen.
4. Changed - You can now save/load your turn in the middle when playing a simultaneous
multiplayer game.
5. Added - "Generate Points" abilities which will generate points for an empire each turn.
These abilities are independent of a planet and will generate an unlimited number
or points. These abilities can be used on a facility, component, ship, or anything else.
6. Added - "Order By Name" and "Order By Class" buttons to the Scrap window.
7. Fixed - The View Orders window would show the name of unexplored systems.
8. Fixed - Attempting to colonize in an unexplored system would sometimes show the planets in the sector.
9. Fixed - Rare Access Violation bug during Movement Log Replay.



Version 1.89:
1. Changed - The Create and Destroy Storm components are now destroyed on use.
2. Changed - Mineral Scanner I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
3. Changed - Hybrid Eco - Farms I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
4. Changed - Radioactives Collider I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
5. Changed - System Mineral Scanner I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
6. Changed - System Eco - Farms I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
7. Changed - System Radioactives Collider I, II, III have had their modifiers increased to 15%, 30%, 45%.
8. Fixed - The owner of a minefield would not get a log message if the minefield was completely
sweeped.
9. Added - Added "Race Directory" to the Empire/Race Report.
10. Fixed - When you replied to a demand for a gift or tribute, you were unable to view the package
of the gift or tribute that was demanded.
11. Fixed - Range Check Error upon loading a turn where massive numbers of units were launched the
previous turn.


Version 1.88:
1. Changed - Added in Imperator Fyron's smoothed population modifiers.
2. Fixed - A ship would clear its remaining orders if it tried to load cargo and
it had no cargo space available.
3. Fixed - A colonizer ship will still be counted as available for colonization
even if it has low supplies (but not if it has zero supplies).
4. Fixed - Sometimes an attack force would invade an ally's planet if it was in the
same sector as an enemy planet.
5. Fixed - Occasional Access Violation or Range Check Error from the Combat Replay.
6. Fixed - Component mounts were not being used in retrofit change comparisons.
7. Changed - You must have movement remaining on your ship to create a storm.
8. Fixed - "Remove All" in the Fleet Transfer window would break up other player's fleets.


Version 1.87:
1. Added - "Move Hundred" to Cargo Transfer window.
2. Fixed - In Simultaneous games, scanned enemy ship designs would not be saved.
3. Fixed - "Max Positive Anger Change" and "Max Negative Anger Change" were being
used as percents instead of tenth of percents.
4. Fixed - Ships were not receiving experience for kills made with seekers.
5. Fixed - Increased the population amount for the storehouse in combat simulations.
6. Fixed - The Small Graviton Beam is now under the Gravitational Weapons tech area.
7. Fixed - Mothballing would not generate a log message in simultaneous games and would
show a messagebox instead.
8. Fixed - Unmothballing would not generate a log message in simultaneous games.
9. Fixed - Converting resources would not generate a log message in simultaneous games.
10. Fixed - The Abandon Planet order would not generate a log message in simultaneous games.
11. Fixed - Intelligence reports on planets were not showing the cargo they contained.
12. Fixed - In Computer Versus Human games, the AI's would get negative happiness modifiers
on treaties (Partnership) they were forced to have.
13. Fixed - AI's would continue to propose the existing treaty in a Computer Versus Humans game.
14. Fixed - In the Combat Simulator, any player that has a base or a planet will start in the
center of the combat map.
15. Fixed - The Fleet Report window's list will now respond to the Mousewheel.
16. Fixed - The component list in the Tactical Combat window will now repsond to the Mousewheel.
17. Fixed - The Add Design window's components available list will now respond to the Mousewheel.


Version 1.86:
1. Added - "AI Tag ##" abilities for use in getting AIs to use specific components.
2. Fixed - Improved Empire placement using the "Evenly distributed through the quadrant" option.
3. Fixed - AI would purchase ships even if it had no resources available.
4. Fixed - Cloaked unit Groups would not show a dotted circle around them.
5. Added - Empire style directory label to the Empire setup window.
6. Fixed - AI would still try to launch units when its maximum units in space had been reached.
7. Fixed - The name of the current item under construction should show how many as well.
8. Fixed - Drones were not inflicting special damage types.
9. Fixed - Decreased seeker damage factor required to move to next target.
10. Fixed - You could build designs which had mounts of higher technology than your empire.
11. Fixed - AI would build all of the same colonizer type in a given turn.
12. Added - Mousewheel support to lists.


Version 1.85:
1. Fixed - AI players were giving away technology too easily.
2. Fixed - There was a limit of 5 neutral players in a game. Now the amount of
neutral players is based on the values in the Settings file.
3. Added - 4 more neutral races.
4. Fixed - AI was not taking into account bonus resources for scrapping.
5. Fixed - Changed Population Transport minister so that it takes population
to lowest populated planet regardless of distance and also taking
into account if a pop transport is already heading to the planet.
6. Fixed - Problem with AI checking its existing ship's orders.
7. Fixed - The race setup screen no longer errors if an empire ship picture is
not present.
8. Fixed - "Change Bad Event Chance - System" ability was not working right.
9. Fixed - "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" ability was not working right.
10. Fixed - Planets would not recalculate their sight values when a new facility was
built (this would make planets with cloaking abilities not light up cloak
button).
11. Fixed - A cloaked planet would still show its name for the option "Show Planet Names".
12. Fixed - Rebelling planets would double their population.
13. Fixed - Simultaneous different machine multiplayer games now require that a game
master password be provided.
14. Fixed - In the Select Package screen, clicking in the package list would not reduce
the resources by the x10000 or x100000 amount selected.
15. Fixed - Integer Overflow if a finite resource planet had too large a value.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Mephisto:

4. Note - Spaceyards will not work on cloaked planets or ships.
. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ??? Does it mean Devnull Monsters will not be able to build anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
Please, DONT do it !!!

[Rollo]

Originally posted by oleg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Mephisto:

4. Note - Spaceyards will not work on cloaked planets or ships.
. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ??? Does it mean Devnull Monsters will not be able to build anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
Please, DONT do it !!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">no, it doesn't mean that. The monster planets are not cloaked, there are hidden with sector sight obscuration.

Also note that this is not a change from previous Versions, just a designers note. Spaceyrads haven't been working on cloaked ships or planets before.

[Baron Munchausen]

Actually, it did work for a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I would queue up units when the planet was uncloaked and let them finish building while the planet was cloaked. This 'note' is intended to let us know that won't work anymore.

[Paul1980au]

Good to see it fixed - other work arounds will come up - perhaps the ability to cloak planets technology ?

Anyway any more comments - looks like a good upgrade in the mix when they finally get around to the actual realise - expect we will go 1.92 and 1.95 etc first though

Shall we guess a realise date for the next patch of around April 1 ?

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by DavidG:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Atrocities:
Please for the love of God, include the ability for the modding of weapon so that they can be set to specifically target X component. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why so passionate about this? Don't we already have engine targeting weapons? Having to design ships with a whole bunch of specific weapons sounds like micro management hell. What do you have in mind for this ability anyway?

Now if you want to add a specifc target ability to your strategies.. That would be a good idea!! (ie target engines, then when gone, retreat) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The idea behind it is simple, with this ability we can make custom weapons that target other "specific" weapons.

Say one race is uses Presurized Paticle Cannons that cut right through your armor. You research a counter to that weapon called the Anti PPC's. Then when you go into battle, your ships fire and disable his weapons.

Or target specific components such as bridges, fighter bays, armor, or other custom components.

In Decent Freespace to take down a big ship you often would target vital systems first, take out the fighter bays with a few missiles then move onto the weapons then the big ships would come in and pound them into obilivion.

This is way this is so important.

It will improve the use of fighters, also special ship weapons, and even specialized satellite and WP weapons.

I hope this helps to explain it a bit.

The follow up ability to this would be the ability to set the DAMAGE LEVEL. Say from 100% to as low as 10%. This way you can have levels of counter weapons that can do damage. As the other players tech level increases, you will have to research more adavanced Versions to counter his weapons.

[ February 24, 2004, 00:26: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Paul1980au]

Perhaps sub levels of armour or shielding or even ECM type defensive components to protect certain components - or sub shields to protect say weapons etc. Would add more complexity to the game plus a more diverse tech tree.

Planet defenses would become more specialised and perhaps sub mine types ie only damage engines or shields on such ships - perhaps destroying those components and forcing the player to repair etc.

Interesting ideas that would require quite substanital game changes - probably best as a modders dream.

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Actually, it did work for a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I would queue up units when the planet was uncloaked and let them finish building while the planet was cloaked. This 'note' is intended to let us know that won't work anymore. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, that still works, since building units does not require a SY. While a planet is cloaked, you can still use the queue to build facilities and units with the innate planet build rate.
What you can't do is use the SY to build ships/bases, or issue retrofit/mothball/unmothball orders.

[Atrocities]

A way to save current Saved Games from being broken if a mod is updated without having to have multiple installs of a mod would be a nice feature to have as well.

Time after time I have updated the STM mod knowning that it will ruin everyones current save game. I hate that and would really like a way for people to keep playin those save games with the new data, but not be bothered by the adverse changes an update could cause.

I know, simple solution, have multiple installs or get it right the first time then there would be no need for revisions.

[Captain Kwok]

Many balance updates can be harmless, but when you starting adding/removing tech requirements, component and facility levels etc, it can cause all sorts of mischief with a saved game - especially when trying to keep the data files all neatly organized.

However, to implement what you suggested would be very difficult to say the least!

[Xaren Hypr]

It's probably been asked/discussed on a thread in the past, but I'll go ahead and ask (plead? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ) anyways.

Is there any possibility of a new/updated Version of the map editing utility being created to go along w/ the release of the final SE4 patch? If not, np.. but it would be a nice thing to see (I also understand that the patch comes first in the priority chain, and can wait for as long as it takes for it to be finished).

Just a question, and nothing more... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif