OT: am playing D&D light and am having fun

[narf poit chez BOOM]

such as what anybody here thought about the D&D Adventure game starter thing, good places on the internet to buy it, or any other things or advice i should have before getting into it?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndcore/863490000

[ December 10, 2003, 00:14: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Fyron]

D&D is great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Now if only I could find some people to play it with... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, why not try over the internet? IRC with the stats and maps on the forum? the DO forum could use the traffic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

wait a minute...aren't i supposed to be looking for advice? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Taera]

try looking for a store in your town. i found one in mine, helped me a lot. where are you from narf? (dont say cheese)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Vancouver. well, close to it. and that cheese stuff in my profile is mostly for laughs and nosy people.

but then again, i'm a nosy person. i look at new profile's.

[ December 04, 2003, 05:13: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Taera]

there are way too many roleplays going around vancouver, go google http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif seriously, open your city phonebook and look at the 'games' Category, you well might find something - i know at least three places in my city that sell D&D and/or similar stuff. and people who play can usually be found thru there

[Fyron]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
well, why not try over the internet? IRC with the stats and maps on the forum? the DO forum could use the traffic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

wait a minute...aren't i supposed to be looking for advice? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bah. D&D is about roleplaying with people, not with letters/numbers moving on a screen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif You do not get any sense of atmosphere in chat RPing.

[Taera]

yep, stole my post, you did fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Puke]

local stores frequently have bulliten Boards (the cork kind, you internet addicted wisecrackers!) where notes can be posted for people seeking Groups and Groups seeking people.

Try experiencing different games besides D&D. the new rules are not horible as rules go, and are probably better than the old ones, but the system its self suffers from feat-creep with magazines and new supliments much the same way warhammer forces you to buy all the latest White Dwarf's and Codexes (codicies?) to keep up to date. plus, theres no bell curve on 1D20.

but this isnt the place for me to be a gaming nazi. the important thing is to have fun, and to do so face to face with real people. find a local store, try the yellow pages. as them about local Groups and players.

[E3]

I'm selling my 3.0 Players handbook, DMG, and Monster Manual. the 3 core books.
As well as a few extra books; the stronghold builders guidebook, arms and equipment guide, and savage species.
I'm also selling my 3.5 players handbook and the DMG (already with paper place holders taped in for DM use)

and since I'm in the best city in the world and hte only REAL city in Canada (*smiles and prepares to run for his life*)....

ok this was rambling... ignore it... unless you wanna buy my books.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

L, could you translate a few of those terms for me, please? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

*chases after E3 with a hammer*

any Online retailers anyone's used before? perferably with cheap shipping?

[ December 04, 2003, 15:46: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[tesco samoa]

not that I know anything about d&d but clerics are rather powerful now that they have expanded them past 7th level spells... And that anyone can use a cross bow now. And feats are kind of cool. and they fixed up that crap with dueling or multi class players

The current Version is quite nice.

But again I have no clue what I am talking about.

I would suggest you hit a local store and chat with the people working there.... Players guide will be needed to start.

[Loser]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
L, could you translate a few of those terms for me, please?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which ones?

Some Guy (http://www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~woodelf/mystuff/essays/RPGlingo_body.appendix.html)
A derisive term for a game that is all combat, and/or for players that are only concerned about combat. Looked down upon by most gamers, because it is seen to go against the spirit of RPGs: 'why play a roleplaying game if you're not going to pay any attention to the role? That's what wargames, computer games, and other tactical games are for.'

</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">munchkin</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">power gamer</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">minimaxing/minimaxer</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Min-Maxing/minmaxer</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">raping the rules/raping the system/rules</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">raping/rules raper</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">point-shaver</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">mathematician</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">rules lawyer</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">dice bouncing</font> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">roll-playing</font><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Spec-out: the specifications of the character, how its points are spent, its nature
Talk-work Rogue: think Dirk Benedict's character from the A-Team, 'Face'
Finger-work Rogue: think ninja-super-thief

[narf poit chez BOOM]

thanks.

that link is funny. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ December 04, 2003, 17:02: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Taera:
yep, stole my post, you did fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hardly...

[gregebowman]

I haven't played pen & paper AD&D in about ten years. I bought a couple of the 2nd Version books, but haven't kept up with it other than knowing that TSR is no more and that Wizards of the Coast now own the rights. too bad we live on different sides of the country, Fyron, or we could get a game going (I wonder if Tampa Gamer is lurking here and is a player also). And you're right; a computerized Version of the game isn't quite the same. I sure do miss the interaction of a good role-playing session. I always played a barbarian. Gotta love them.

[ December 04, 2003, 21:05: Message edited by: gregebowman ]

[Taera]

yes you did -_-

as for Inappropriate Character... imagine yourself a bard WITHOUT ALL THOSE FIGHTER THINGS that was thrown into a KILL ALL THAT MOVES game. that was a distaster, all i could do is sing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

D&D is fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, depending on your singing, you could still do damage...

[Loser]

A Strong DM addresses feat-creep during character creation. It's not that hard to tell your players "We're using 3rd ed (or 3.5, which is pretty nice), so make your characters with the book, nothing else." The people who want to bring in stuff from elsewhere are the same power-gamers and rules-lawyers that cause you trouble later on in the game, but a good DM can keep them in line.

For your first character you may want to keep it simple and go with Fighter or Sorcerer, keeping more complicated classes like Rogue and Wizard for later, once you are used to the basics of the system.

Try to make sure your DM can run a game that takes advantage of the way you spec-out your character. Few things are as annoying as having a talk-work Rogue in a game with little-to-no role-playing and a group that expects finger-work out of you.

[PvK]

I second Puke's suggestion to consider other RPG's besides D&D, because there is a much variety between them (and between different Groups), and different people have different tastes.

I refer to D&D as DuD, myself, but most of you know I have rare tastes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, i'm thinking of starting with D&D, simply because i know there's a 15$ starter box for it. but hey, if i happen to run into any other cheap stuff...

[Erax]

Having played D&D for more than 20 years, here's my advice :

Don't bother to buy the rulebooks. Find yourself a good group first. That is so much more important. A good gaming group will show you all the game has to offer and will let you reach the point where you can read the rulebooks on your own (if you try to do it in the way that seems logical - buy the books, read the books, then go play - it won't work, trust me).

Gaming stores are good places to meet players. Down here, most of the employees play RPGs themselves, although in your region it may be different. Just avoid people who claim things like 'this system we play is the best ever' or 'our group is the best/oldest gaming group' 5 minutes after meeting you.

D&D is a good place to start because it's the common ground for all role-players, whether they like it or not. You will find some things in other RPGs that only make sense if you've played some D&D first and understood that system's strengths and weaknesses.

I wish you a good time !

[Growltigger]

Yeah, I fully concur with Erax (I will still get you you sneaky Brazilian reprobate, yes you and your little dog too).

I have not played D&D for about 15 years, but what I do remember that it is the quality of the group you play with that dicatates the enjoyment you will get out of it. A good Dungeon Master (ref) is also essential

[gregebowman]

And watch out for teh guy who knows it all without cracking open a book. I seemed to have one of those guys in every group I've been in. They're also the guys who get sullen and pack up their stuff if things don't go their way. But as far as other games, I've dabbled in quite a few games back in the 80's, but the only ones I remember and still have the books for are AD&D, of course, GURPS (great system, but not exactly cheap with all of the different supplement books you'll need), Shadowrun and FASA's Star Trek rpg. OH, those were teh days. Maybe once my son is old enough (he just turned 3), he'll get involved in rpg's and invite dad to join in. One can only hope

[Antonin]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
such as what anybody here thought about the D&D Adventure game starter thing, good places on the internet to buy it, or any other things or advice i should have before getting into it?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndcore/863490000 <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've also been thinking of getting into D&D, but it'll be a year before I'll have the time due to the "career retraining" (aka school) I'm currently in.

In the past I've tried RP games at Origins and didn't like them. But in recent years I've been reading a buncha Forgotten Realms novels and have really gotten hooked on that whole universe.

The RA Salvatore novel "Spine of the World" has a 16-pg "Quickplay" D&D adventure at the end, presumably to give people like me (and maybe you too) a small taste of the D&D universe.

I'd like to get into D&D eventually. I'm not getting any younger, and it sounds like fun. I'm getting too old to hang around bars. Spending an evening with a group of fellow gaming geeks living in a fantasy world sounds quite appealing. That whole escapism thing.

[E3]

Suggestion.. take your "D&D birth" in steps.

1 - Find a game
2 - Find out what system they are using ( 3.5 and 3.0 will be most common, as they are the current Versions)
3 - Get the players handbook for that particular Version
4 - Do not be a psion


ok that Last is just a personal thing. at low levels, psions are USELESS and die frequently. they are only really good in games where Mindflayers seem to pop up often.

[Erax]

Greg - Many good games have been released since the days of FASA's Star Trek. Check out Fading Suns, Ars Magica and (if you like feudal Japan) Sengoku. These are some of the most innovative / well-written / well-researched titles that have been released these Last few years.

The Star Wars D20 system is also quite good, after you get used to the idea of playing Star Wars with levels and classes.

GT - When I said 'group', I meant that as including the DM. He is the most important element of all, I know many people who hate D&D because they started playing with a lousy DM.

[Loser]

Which publication of Ars Magica do you favor, Erax?

That title has been passed around like an easy ugly girl.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, me and my brother have decided we like the light Version. unfortunatly, it doesn't contain any information on how to roll up your own character's or advance farther than level 2 and refer's you to the player's handbook for those. so, i guess i'll be looking for that. i figure once the simplified rules get easy, we'll move onto the hard one's.

thanks to all the people who replied.

[Fyron]

The rules in the Player's Handbook are not that complicated. There are just a lot. Just follow the book chapter by chapter to create a character; everything is presented in the only logical order to make your character (as some things HAVE to be done before others, naturally).

[Taera]

you can try the sparrow method - try playing AD&D straight away. I find AD&D more attractive than either 2nd or 3rd editions.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

'sparrow method'?

and on a side not, it looks like the soonest i'm going to get that player handbook is next week.

[ December 09, 2003, 23:53: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Taera:
you can try the sparrow method - try playing AD&D straight away. I find AD&D more attractive than either 2nd or 3rd editions. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know about that... the AD&D rules were rather rough and had a lot of silly things in them... like the psionics system. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Though, I still haven't decided whether 2nd edition or 3rd edition is the better of the pair... I do have a lot of 2nd edition books and no inclination to shovel out 400+ dollars to buy all of the 3rd edition equivalents... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Taera]

"Sparrow Method - a strong kick out of the nest". As for your comment fyron, i cant realy say - i just realized i dont know ALL core AD&D rules, in my current campaign the DM is quite flexible so i might "missing" some of the worse stuff.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ah. thanks.

might i request that any further D&D terminology come with a translation? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Taera]

sorry.
AD&D referers to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, which is an expansion of 2nd Edition, and for all i know a base for 3rd edition.

DM is the Dungeon Master, the person who runs the campaign.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

hey, don't worry about it. just remember, i'm a D&D clueless newbie. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ December 10, 2003, 06:17: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Taera:
sorry.
AD&D referers to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, which is an expansion of 2nd Edition, and for all i know a base for 3rd edition.

DM is the Dungeon Master, the person who runs the campaign. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm... I think AD&D came out after D&D and was an expansion for it, and then 2nd Edition was the second edition of AD&D... 3rd being the 3rd edition of AD&D of course.

[Erax]

Yes, but sometime between the 2nd and 3rd edition they did away with the 'A' and went back to calling it D&D.

[Taera]

well, i agree that 3rd edition is way better to get into, 2nd and AD&D are complex and stray from KISS principle, i just find that they give far more freedom in actions, at least thats the way my current campaign is. have i said that three times already? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
And fyron, i might be wrong but isnt AD&D is a split-off of 2nd edition?

[Baron Grazic]

Their was D&D which, at least in Oz, started with the Beniginers Red Box, Advanced Blue Box & Expert Green Box.
Then there was the AD&D Hard Back books, followed by the AD&D 2Ed Hard Back books.

Taera, can you explain the KISS principle.

[Loser]

Third Ed. is best. It is refined, simplified, better.

If you haven't bought the books yet be sure to buy 3.5. The book is laid out better, more tables, more examples. A more mature product (not with reference to its audience, but its progression and development.)

[edit (sung): If you want it to be possessive, it's just I-T-S, but if it's supposed to be a contraction it's I-T-apostrophe-S! (http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail89.html)]

[ December 10, 2003, 12:42: Message edited by: Loser ]

[Narratio]

(Oneupmanship eh? Okay, I can do that) In the begining, hmmmm call it '70 or '71 I think, there was a small A5 size (US equivalent) booklet, which became 3 booklets in a box. And then there was Greyhawk Manor and... After about 2 or 3 years it went fullscap / A4 and the imitators burst upon the scene with "Tunnels and Trolls" etc, and the more wierder ones. Anybody remember "Bunnies and Burrows", "Swords and Starships"? Then it went hardback and then it went re-write and AD&D... sometime 76'ish I think. (Somebody out there must remember the time line. I've still got the originals in storage back in England.)

For it's time AD&D was the way to go. No idea about now. The whole point of RPG's though (and I know Taera will agree with this) is not the mechanics, it's the role play. Any system can be used and cheated with. The story telling and teh fun of involvement in that story is what it's all about.

The KISS principle. "Keep It Simple, Stupid!"

[Taera]

narratio said it all

[ZeroAdunn]

I always say this: It is all about the group you play with. Right now I have found a really good group (except for the fact that we can't go a single quest without getting into a fight with eachother) and find it much more enjoyable then any I have played with in the past.

I have enjoyed 3e D&D above all others I have played. I don't understand why everybody always needs or wants to buy all the supplements. Just glance through them at the store/borrow them from someone you know, and then buy the ones you really like.

[Fyron]

I certainly don't buy all the supplements. There are just a lot I liked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif That, and have to put something on christmas/birthday lists for people...

[Erax]

This is the timeline as I know it : First there were the small booklets, called D&D and first released in 1976 or 77, with new booklets being released over the years (Castle Greyhawk, Blackmoor and so on). Then 'AD&D' (three hardback, large-sized volumes) was released sometime between 1979 and 1981. At the same time, D&D was completely rewritten to become a simplified Version of the game, with less options and cleaner rules.

For a long time, D&D and AD&D existed simultaneously; D&D went through several Versions, known as the 'blue box', 'red book', 'white book' and so on. AD&D kept expanding and eventually became 11 different hardback volumes, of which I own 6. The awkward parts of the rules were never rewritten, they were just added to.

Sometime around 1988, 2nd edition AD&D came out. It fixed many things but did not change the basics of the race, class and level system.

Then in more recent years, the old D&D was extinguished and 3rd edition AD&D was released, only it had been renamed D&D. I can't say much about it because I still play (which is almost never) under a mishmash of 1st and 2nd edition rules. However, I do play Star Wars D20, and if that is in any way similar to 3rd Edition, it means they have finally fixed the most irritating aspects of the original game.

[Erax]

Which publication of Ars Magica do you favor, Erax?

That title has been passed around like an easy ugly girl. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I prefer to think of it as a beautiful woman who likes do demand expensive gifts - everyone wants her, but those she is with can't stand her for long.

My rules booklet is 3rd edition, but I have varous supplements and adventures from the 2nd to the 4th edition (including two Versions of the same supplement, what can I say) ... and I only played it twice.

[Puke]

oh how i dispise white wolf. i dont know if its because of the writers, or because of the players. i USED to think it was a cool idea, but it kept getting worse and worse as it was added on to, and as it became more and more popular.

how i try to forget that Ars Magica is a distant cousin... such a beautifle, well written, scholarly game is Ars. Fourth Ed. is available as a free download on the web, if you are interested. Go to the Atlas Games website and look for "Free Ars Magica"

[Loser]

Originally posted by Puke:
oh how i dispise white wolf. i dont know if its because of the writers, or because of the players. i USED to think it was a cool idea, but it kept getting worse and worse as it was added on to, and as it became more and more popular.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Did you know they are killing off the enitre World of Darkness?

Yeah, they got tired of the complications and they're pulling the End of the World. I think God did that in the book from which Dave got my avatar.

[Erax]

Stewart Wieck (author of Mage) was a guest at one of our cons, and he's an OK guy. I've been curious about it ever since, but have other priorities for my oh-so-short gaming budget.

But then again, Mage doesn't really mesh into the World of Darkness, and there aren't that many Mage players out there (compared to Vampire players).

And I've never played a Storyteller-line game, not even once. It's like a glaring hole in my gaming history. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by Erax:
Greg - Many good games have been released since the days of FASA's Star Trek. Check out Fading Suns, Ars Magica and (if you like feudal Japan) Sengoku. These are some of the most innovative / well-written / well-researched titles that have been released these Last few years.

The Star Wars D20 system is also quite good, after you get used to the idea of playing Star Wars with levels and classes.

GT - When I said 'group', I meant that as including the DM. He is the most important element of all, I know many people who hate D&D because they started playing with a lousy DM. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Erax, I'm sure there have been quite a few games come out since I stopped playing in the fall of 1993. I had to take on a part-time job and lost contact with my group. NOw I just play the occassional rpg on the computer. It's not the same, however. I miss the interaction of role-playing, even though I'm the shy and quiet type. I think that's one reason I like playing barbarians. I can grunt and then perform some death-defying act. Maybe if some of us who live in the Tampa area could get together....?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Go to the Atlas Games website and look for "Free Ars Magica"
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">all i saw was a couple of free adventure's.

[Loser]

I've got the old White Wolf edition, and us it mostly as background for othe White Wolf campaigns, and an indication of the progression of style within the company, as that is the oldest White Wolf publication I can find.

[deccan]

You should have looked harder:

Free Ars Magica (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=774)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, it took me about an hour, but i finally did it - i rolled up my first character for D&D. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

if you don't think that's an accomplishment, you've never read all of the first five chapter's.

neither did i. round about the skills, i started skimming. a LOT of information.

if anyone is actually interested, meet Mr. Unnamed, a 1st level Ranger:

Str: 14
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 13
Wis: 14
Cha: 10
yep, that was my first roll. no rerolls.
HP: 9
AC: 15
longsword, shortsword, longbow.

now, what's the Touch AC, the Flat-Footed AC, and all that stuff about what feats a ranger gains when choosing two-weapons and light or no armor that i ran into in the feats section but didn't see a peep off in the ranger section when i checked?

oh, and thanks deccan.

[ December 18, 2003, 23:10: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Taera]

touch AC - no armor bonus
flat-footed AC - no agility bonus

ranger gains the Ambidexterity and the Two Weapon Fighting feats.
Details:
When fighting with two weapons, normally players suffer a -6 penalty to hit with each. (might be wrong on the numbers)
Two-weapon fightning reduces this to -2/-4 (with the 2nd one being the off-hand, choose yourself whether he is left or right handed). Ambidexterity nullifies the penalty for the off-hand, making it -2/-2, however the other weapon must be small I THINK

[Lurker Above]

Originally posted by Loser:
Did you know they are killing off the enitre World of Darkness?

Yeah, they got tired of the complications and they're pulling the End of the World. I think God did that in the book from which Dave got my avatar. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that book is "Job: A comedy of Justice" by Robert. A. Heinlein. Not sure, though.

Also, some good places in the Vancouver/Greater Vancouver area to buy D&D stuff: Pastime Games in Langly (I'm not sure of the address), and i know that the Coles bookstore in Willowbrook mall has the D&D starter kit thing, as well as several rulebooks (The 3.5 core ones, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of Exhalted Deeds, and Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Last I checked). You might also want to check any massive book store, I think the chapters in Metrotown (is there still a chapters in metrotown?) had most of them. Other than that... well, let's just say a friend and I once drove around vancouver from 9 AM to 6 PM looking for gaming stores, and found nothing but Warhammer.

Also, good Groups can be hard to find. A good idea is to find a bunch of internet friends, and use AIM (yeah, yeah, AOL's horrid, but they know how to make a messenger.), since its chat room has a dice roller. A good program to help with that stuff so that you don't have to keep the stats on a UBB is DMGenie (DMgenie.com) and Player Genie. Or, you could have players e-mail your sheets to the DM, who keeps them in a word processor (and players keep everything of theirs on their computers, too), and then the DM can e-mail out experiance point rewards, treasure hauls, and the like (assuming you have a good DM (who's willing to do that), that works well. as a mediocre (at best) DM, I usually just tell the PCs their rewards in the chat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ). Try and schedual your games for a certain time each week, though. I've tried both unschedualed and schedualed, and I don't think an unschedualed game has survived more than a month.

Finally, the two weapon fighting chart (for 3.0, at least) goes:

Circumstances Primary hand/Off Hand
Normal Penalties: -6/-10
Off-hand weapon is light: -4/-8
Ambidexterity feat: -6/-6
Two weapon Fighting feat: -4/-8
Off hand weapon is light and ambidexterity feat: -4/-4
Off-hand weapon is light and two-weapon fighting feat: -2/-6
Both Feats: -4/-4
Off-hand weapon is light and both feats: -2/-2

sorry if the above is confusing (or formatted weirdly).

So, assuming your ranger is medium sized (the PHB races that are are Human, Elf, Half-Orc, Half-Elf, and Dwarf), then, with his longsword and short sword, he gets -2/-2 (short sword is light). of course, that's in addition to base attack bonus, strength bonus, etc, but your full attack bonus, as a ranger, should be +1/+1 (your strength negates the 2 weapon penalty).

...er. Hope I helped.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

thanks, Taera and Lurker. the only problem is, i don't see any ambidexterity feat in the feats list.
from the description of two-weapon fighting, it looks a little like they combined them. two-weapon now drops them both down to -4/-4 or -2/-2 if one is light. but my complaint is that not all the feats a ranger can get are in the class discription. like multi-shot at level 6, if armor is light or less. looks like Unnamed needs level to before he can put that shortsword to work, to.

well, i have internet freinds here, but nobody's said they're interested in a game...

[ December 19, 2003, 04:40: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Lurker Above]

You know, I seem to recall something about combining them when 3.5 came out. I personally prefer 3.0, mostly because I only just got used to it when they released 3.5..

At any rate, a ranger should be able to dual wield at 1st level.

The reason that not all the feats a ranger can get are in the class description is because the feats in the class description are gained just because you're a ranger. Unlike skills, class doesn't normally affect which feats you can get, (although weapon specialization is an exception), instead, the feats have prerequisites that seem to favor specific classes (like extra turning). The thing is, with prestige classes (specialized classes that have less max levels, and themselves have prerequisites), and multiclassing, for the most part, any character should be able to get any feat. (unless a character has Int 6 and the prereq is an int score so large that even if the character put his Ability score increases into Int every time he got one (every 4 levels) he'd still be too stupid to gain the feat. (although, with epic levels (beyond level 20), he'd still be able to get the feat eventually.))

Again, if that sounds confusing, it's because I'm insane. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Edit: Also, if you really want, i just started a campaign using the "play whenever everyone's on" method, and i'm teaching someone else how to play too, so if you want to play, gimme a shout, eh? (I play a bastardized combination of 3.0 and 3.5, though the ranger in my campaigns is the 3.5 one, just because the 3.0 one is horribly weak.)

[ December 19, 2003, 05:01: Message edited by: Lurker Above ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Again, if that sounds confusing, it's because I'm insane. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">well, i'm not. never, have been, neveoh, i've got a lovely bunch of coconutsr will be.

well, a ranger gets multi-shot at sixth level because he's a ranger and sixth level, but it only says that in the description for multi-shot, not in the description for a ranger. i just wrote it into there.

so, your canadian, to, eh?

[ December 19, 2003, 05:05: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Lurker Above]

Hm... it should say so on the table for the ranger, under "special". Maybe.. (i'm not sure about this, remember I only have 3.0 rulebooks), doesn't the ranger get to choose whether to focus on 2 weapon fighting or bow? if that's the case, try looking under the entry for the focusing on bow, whatever it's called.

And, yeah, I'm Canadian. Vancouverite, currently stuck in surrey, though it's not as bad as the jokes would have you believe (for those who are clueless as to what I'm talking about, when you hear a Vally Girl joke in this particular part of Canada, it tends to be a Surrey Girl joke instead, mostly because the Trans-Canada highway goes right through the worst part of Surrey. (And the Fraser highway (I think) goes past a store called "Gold 'n Guns"). It's really kinda funny.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ok, it does have them, in the paragraphs for other feats that you need to use before you get them. so i guess that's ok and i need to skim better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Lurker Above]

Heh, don't worry, for the first year after I got the PHB, I was completely clueless.

[Loser]

Here are a couple Pointless Internet Personality Tests.

<center><p align="center">http://www.visi.com/~phantos/images/wodtest/mage.jpg (http://www.visi.com/~phantos/wodtest.html)
Take the World of Darkness Quiz (http://www.visi.com/~phantos/wodtest.html)
by David J Rust (phantos@visi.com)</p></center>

<div align="center">

http://www.cyborgirl.com/tests/kithtest/eshu.gif (http://www.cyborgirl.com/tests/kithtest)
What kith are you? Find out here (http://www.cyborgirl.com/tests/kithtest).</p></div>

There's a never-ending supply of these trite litte things out there.

Amusment rating: 3 minutes, then back to Tetris.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Taera:
touch AC - no armor bonus
flat-footed AC - no agility bonus

ranger gains the Ambidexterity and the Two Weapon Fighting feats.
Details:
When fighting with two weapons, normally players suffer a -6 penalty to hit with each. (might be wrong on the numbers)
Two-weapon fightning reduces this to -2/-4 (with the 2nd one being the off-hand, choose yourself whether he is left or right handed). Ambidexterity nullifies the penalty for the off-hand, making it -2/-2, however the other weapon must be small I THINK <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They only gain those 2 feats while wearing light or no armor. The secondary weapon being smaller than the primary weapon reduces its penalty by 2, but it does not have to be small.

[deccan]

Originally posted by deccan:
You should have looked harder:

Free Ars Magica (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=774) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heh. I went and downloaded the game myself. I know I'll never get to actually play the game, but I couldn't help myself from making a character anyway, so here he is:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Deccan Silverhand (Age: 21)
House Merinita

Characteristics:

Intelligence 0
Perception 0
Strength -1
Stamina 0
Presence +2(+1)
Communication +2
Dexterity +1
Quickness +1

Abilities:

Faerie Lore (Faeries of the Air) 2
Faerie Magic 1
Magic Theory (Inventing Spells) 4
Organization Lore (Order of Hermes) 1
Parma Magica (Corpus) 2
Scribe Latin (Original Composition) 3
Speak Latin 4
Speak Gaelic (Slang) 4
Enchanting Music 2
Penetration (Mentem) 2
Atheletics (Grace) 1
Charm (Courtly Love) 2
Concentration (Spell Concentration) 1
Guile (Lying to Authority) 2
Brawling (Dodge) 1
Single Weapon (Shortsword) 2
Bows (Shortbow) 2
Play Lyre (Solo) 2
Sing (Ballads) 2
Storytelling (Romances) 2
Etiquette (Faeries) 1
Intrigue (Gossip) 1
Legend Lore (Heroes) 1

Virtues:

Faerie Magic +1

Gentle Gift +1

Faerie Blood (Sidhe Blood) +2

Enchanting Music +2

Venus’ Blessing +1

Flaws:

Deleterious Circumstances -1
Magic rolls at -3 when in the presence of blood.

Magic Deficiency -2
Level of Corpus Form is divided in half when used for any purpose other than studying that Art.

Incomprehensible -1

Soft Hearted -1

Enemies -2
Faerie enemies.

Load:
Shortsword -0.5
Shortbow -0.5

Total -1

Scores:

Initiative (Shortbow) 0
Initiative (Shortsword) +4
Attack (Shortbow) 0
Attack (Shortsword) +3
Defense (Shortbow) +1
Defense(Shortsword) +4
Damage (Shortbow) +4
Damage (Shortsword) +2
Soak -1
Combat Fatigue (Shortbow) 0
Combat Fatigue (Shortsword) 0
Encumberance -2

Magic Arts:

Techniques:
Creo 0
Intellego 7
Muto 7
Perdo 0
Rego 7

Forms:

Animal 0
Aquam 0
Auram 4
Corpus 0
Herbam 0
Ignem 0
Imaginem 7
Mentem 7
Terram 0
Vim 0

Spells:

Intellego Auram:

True Sight of Air 15
Whispering Winds 15

Muto Imaginem:

Taste of the Spices and Herbs 4
Notes of a Delightful Sound 5
Aura of Ennobled Presence 10

Rego Imaginem:

Wizard’s Sidestep 10
The Captive Voice 15

Intellego Mentem:

Perception of the Conflicting Motives 15

Muto Mentem:

Subtle Shift of Heart 10
Emotion of Reversed Intentions 20

Rego Mentem:

Coerce the Spirits of the Night 1
The Call to Slumber 10
Confusion of the Numbed Will 15
Scent of Peaceful Slumber 15</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Taera]

Narf, if your going to have an RP group going about Online, let me know, i might well join it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif canadian, from Alberta, Calgary

[Fyron]

I thought you didn't like chatting Online? How can RPing be any better? You lose all of the atmospheric effects that are half the experience... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Arkcon]

Hey there, all this talk about D&D has got me thinking about these games again. But I don't care much for the 3 edition modules that you can buy.

I used to like browsing on the web for small little dungeon crawls, and I'd spice them up with the rules our group used to use. But a Google search doesn't lead me to anything like that anymore. Anyone have any links?

[EDIT]

Oh, I did find the RPG Archive {here} (http://www.rpgarchive.com/index.php?sysid=37&page=adv&sort=Alpha), and I guess this d20 is sort of an open source FRP, this is kinda what I'm looking for. But I'm really more interested in more of the old stuff.

[ December 21, 2003, 18:47: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Taera]

it cant fyron, and please dont throw my own thoughts on me, but real D&D doesnt happen often (there is a lot of time from weekend to weekend http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) and that might be a good time-passer

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, i'll put up a thread and see if anyone's interested.