Map editor

[Asmala]

Have you noticed you get same maps every time you generate them with SE4 map editor? Or have you noticed "no ruins" check box doesn't work?

[Taz-in-Space]

Yea, the map editor has some problems.

The workaround, for the map editor generating the same maps, is to generate the maps in the main program and then save them. You then reopen them from the map editor. The main SE4 program DOESN'T have this particular problem.

I did NOT know that the NO RUINS doesn't work. Again try using the main SE4 program for the initial map generation and then modify using the map editor.

Maybe SE5 will have a better map editor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Taz-in-Space:
Maybe SE5 will have a better map editor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope so. Fortunately it's very easy to make a better map editor than in SE4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

hopefully, SE5 will have a campaign editer.

[AMF]

I am trying to use the map editor to generate a large map using FQM standard. I keep getting access violations and then crashes. Would really like to create a 255 system map, but can;t seem to get past the crashes. Anyone, help available?

(I do have the settings.txt data file set to 255 systems max)

thanks,

Alarik

[Fyron]

Another problem with the map editor is that it does not work well at all with non-standard data files. Just generate the map in-game and edit it as necessary in the map editor.

[AMF]

Well, I keep doing that, but, I swear I have never gotten a map that is anywhere close to 255 systems. They appear to top out around 160. I'm basically trying to see how big a map I can make...is the map size affected by the number of players? Or something else besides "max number of systems" setting?


Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Another problem with the map editor is that it does not work well at all with non-standard data files. Just generate the map in-game and edit it as necessary in the map editor. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Kamog]

Yes, I have experienced the same problem!

It seems to depend on what Quandrant Type you choose to generate. With the maximum set to 255 and I get:

Mid-Life: This works. I get lots of star systems.
Cluster: Doesn't work as well. There's always a blank area around the four borders of the galaxy without any systems.
Galactic Edge: BAD! Get nowhere near 255.
Spiral Arm: BAD! Most of the stars form a rectangle on the outer edge of the quadrant window, with not many stars in the middle.
Grid: BAD! Get a quadrant with stars neatly arranged in a grid, but nowhere near 255 stars.
Ancient: This works OK. Get lots of systems.

So try using Mid-Life or Ancient. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Does anybody know how to fix the other quadrant types?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by alarikf:
I am trying to use the map editor to generate a large map using FQM standard. I keep getting access violations and then crashes. Would really like to create a 255 system map, but can;t seem to get past the crashes. Anyone, help available?

(I do have the settings.txt data file set to 255 systems max)

thanks,

Alarik <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do you happen to be trying to make a grid map? Grid maps can't have that many systems.

Also, are you using gold? Older Versions of the game had more frequent problems with crashing creating larger maps.

Geoschmo

Edit:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You were faster then me and more detailed Kamog. Originally posted by Kamog:

Does anybody know how to fix the other quadrant types? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope, don't think they can be.

[ January 04, 2004, 04:12: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[AMF]

Yep, you describe the same problems I'm having. Oh well. Good to know that I'm not alone, at least.

thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by Kamog:
Yes, I have experienced the same problem!

It seems to depend on what Quandrant Type you choose to generate. With the maximum set to 255 and I get:

Mid-Life: This works. I get lots of star systems.
Cluster: Doesn't work as well. There's always a blank area around the four borders of the galaxy without any systems.
Galactic Edge: BAD! Get nowhere near 255.
Spiral Arm: BAD! Most of the stars form a rectangle on the outer edge of the quadrant window, with not many stars in the middle.
Grid: BAD! Get a quadrant with stars neatly arranged in a grid, but nowhere near 255 stars.
Ancient: This works OK. Get lots of systems.

So try using Mid-Life or Ancient. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Does anybody know how to fix the other quadrant types? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Fyron]

The grid is specifically limited because it has to be for the game to generate a grid-pattern of systems every time. Spiral has a limit on how many it will place in the "spiral", and then it places the rest around the edges of the map. There are only so many border squares, so you might not be able to get 255 systems on spiral type maps.

[Slynky]

I think (but who cares, right?) Shrapnel made a mistake there. Why? OK, here is why:

Look at the success of DOOM/DOOM II. Look at the success of Mechwarrior. (and how many other games that I don't even know about) I believe one of the reasons is the ability to make one's own maps...especially in DOOM. They released the specs on mapmaking and several people made free map creating programs...I used one to make many many levels myself. It was as much fun as playing the game. AND, playing over modem over "home-made" maps by people all over the place made the game ALWAYS have a "new" touch.

Now, imagine if Shrapnel and invested time into making a REAL map creator (instead of a map editor) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif .

With a few features like these:

(1) Mark and copy several systems in a mirrored fashion;
(2) Positioning warp points between 2 systems with drag (the warp point) and drop (while showing both systems in separate windows);
(3) BMP images to chose from instead of guessing at what each of the pictures looked like;
(4) Wizards for planet creation...that walked you through the various steps...quickly and easily with pulldowns;
(5) Don't like where you put a planet? Drag it to a new location;
(6) Don't like where you put the system? Drag it to a new location (warp points updated automatically);
(7) Library of planets definitions (you like one you created? Store it and retrieve it at any time and plop it down where you want it;
(8) Choosable ruins...decide what you want to be found;
(9) Cross-check routine (like Frontpage has) for any warp connection glitches;
(10) Right-click properties editor for various items (planets, warp points, storms, etc.);
(11) Click on a warp line and delete it;
(12) Statistics report (how many planets, which types, which atmospheres, resource percentages, etc...to be used to decide on play balance).

I think the inclusion of an editor like that could have more than made up for the investment in creating it with sales to people who, like the thousands of people I saw making DOOM maps, like that added dimension to the game. After all, who wants to be limited to what the program generates when it can't even space players on the map correctly? Who wouldn't want an easy way to make tournement maps that are play-balanced?

OK, I'm done ranting. (I just hate it when a great game could have been even greater!)

[Gryphin]

Originaly posted by kamog
Spiral Arm: BAD! Most of the stars form a rectangle on the outer edge of the quadrant window, with not many stars in the middle.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">To avoid the systems placed around the edge I Think you need to change
Maximum systems := 160 or less and then experiment.

Can someone correct me here? It has been a while since I did this.

[userx]

Originally posted by Slynky:

Now, imagine if Shrapnel and invested time into making a REAL map creator (instead of a map editor) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif .

With a few features like these:

(1) Mark and copy several systems in a mirrored fashion;
(2) Positioning warp points between 2 systems with drag (the warp point) and drop (while showing both systems in separate windows);
(3) BMP images to chose from instead of guessing at what each of the pictures looked like;
(4) Wizards for planet creation...that walked you through the various steps...quickly and easily with pulldowns;
(5) Don't like where you put a planet? Drag it to a new location;
(6) Don't like where you put the system? Drag it to a new location (warp points updated automatically);
(7) Library of planets definitions (you like one you created? Store it and retrieve it at any time and plop it down where you want it;
(8) Choosable ruins...decide what you want to be found;
(9) Cross-check routine (like Frontpage has) for any warp connection glitches;
(10) Right-click properties editor for various items (planets, warp points, storms, etc.);
(11) Click on a warp line and delete it;
(12) Statistics report (how many planets, which types, which atmospheres, resource percentages, etc...to be used to decide on play balance).
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope someone from Shrapnel is reading this and takes serious attention to your comments! After making the Star Trek mod map, I can say that the map editor is seriously flawed and your suggestions would be outstanding.

[Fyron]

Shrapnel has nothing to do with the development of SE. They just publish it. Malfador Machinitations is 100% in charge of the SE games, both in code and in concept.

[userx]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Shrapnel has nothing to do with the development of SE. They just publish it. Malfador Machinitations is 100% in charge of the SE games, both in code and in concept. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the clarification Fyron, but you get the picture.

[Kamog]

Even with fewer systems, the "Spiral Arm" quadrant doesn't look like a spiral, or even part of a spiral. It looks sort of like a spider web.

[Fyron]

Actually... it sometimes looks like a spiral galaxy, but not too often, sadly.

[Wydraz]

Originally posted by Slynky:
I think the inclusion of an editor like that could have more than made up for the investment in creating it with sales to people who, like the thousands of people I saw making DOOM maps, like that added dimension to the game. After all, who wants to be limited to what the program generates when it can't even space players on the map correctly? Who wouldn't want an easy way to make tournement maps that are play-balanced?

OK, I'm done ranting. (I just hate it when a great game could have been even greater!) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AMEN!

[AMF]

edit: nevermind below. I just assumed that and went with it.

Quick question: When using a pre-designed map, with specific positions for player empires, in the "Player Settings" section of the new game startup, do I UNCHECK the "allowed to start in same sys" AND the "evenly distributed throughout quadrant" boxes?

thanks,

Alarik

[ January 10, 2004, 01:16: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[capnq]

I think those two checkboxes are ignored until all the preset positions are filled. You might want to leave them on if you have more players and AIs than starting positions.