New PBW game - Great Experiment 3 [Archive]

Unknown_Enemy

December 30th, 2003, 10:20 AM

Geochmo,

Will you start a Great Experiment3 game anytime soon ?

[ December 30, 2003, 17:25: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Puke

December 30th, 2003, 11:15 AM

what was one and two?

Unknown_Enemy

December 30th, 2003, 11:31 AM

you start with 3 colony ships, and nothing else. No homeworld, no research, nothing.

Well, Geo did include point defense 1, but that was it.

There was quite a few AI also. I remember meeting the cryslonite early on was no fun. But the game was good.

I think it was medium AI and no bonus. But I am not sure.

Joachim

December 30th, 2003, 01:56 PM

Sounds like a very interesting game set up....
I'd be on the team.

geoschmo

December 30th, 2003, 07:24 PM

For those of you familiar with TGE 1 and 2, this time you will be the ones left behind. No colony ship. Just a planet laid bare by the ancients and a few people left to rebuild your shattered empire.

The Great Experiment III (Link to game on PBW) (http://seiv.pbw.cc/text/index.jsp?menu=gamemenu.jsp%3fgame=e8b7p7&body=gamebody.jsp%3fgame=e8b7p7)

Your people were once proud and strong. Your empire once spanned the all the lights of the night sky visible from your homeworld. Your ships traveled between them with impunity. You stood among the races of the galaxy and held your head high. You were the masters of your domain.

Or so the old stories go. For you have no knowledge of those times except in the tattered remains of a few dusty books passed down from generations long gone. In all of your years, and those of your father before you, and your fathers father, your people have led a hard scrabble life. Scraping by in the bones of the old cities of another age. Your people that once were as numberless as the stars above, now number a pitiful few souls.

But the old knowledge long forgotten is being remembered again. You are no longer content to merely exsist. Your people’s long dormant longing to ply the blackness of space is once again stirring.

You look once again to the stars…

Starting resources: 5000
Starting planets: 1 ***You will be given one medium world, with no facilities on it, and only 1 Million in population
Home planet value: Average
Score display: Own
Technology level: Low
Racial points: 2000
Quadrant type: random
Quadrant size: Depends on number of players
Event frequency: None
Event severity: Low
Technology cost: High
Victory conditions: What you make of it
Maximum units: Max
Maximum ships: Max
Computer players: Medium depending on number of players
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: Medium
Neutral empires: No
Other game settings:
No Ancient Race (you can redicover tech, but the knowledge of the stars is gone until you go out and explore them again)
Maybe if I think of something else before the game starts.

[ December 30, 2003, 17:38: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Unknown_Enemy

December 30th, 2003, 08:10 PM

Thanks Geo !

geoschmo

December 30th, 2003, 08:15 PM

I am thinking to give the AI high difficulty and medium bonus. This time around they will have the same poor start as the humans. Maybe if we have enough players we will go without AI alltogether. Actually I guess we could do that even with few players on a small map. You guys can let me know which way you prefer on that. If we go with AI I don't think they will be as significant a threat as they were Last time.

Alneyan

December 30th, 2003, 08:26 PM

I know I shouldn't, but I will join the game nevertheless. (No matter how hard I tried, I could not resist the urge to join this game. *Shrugs*)

I would rather play without any AI if we have enough players. We will see if many volunteers sign up for this peculiar experience. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AMF

December 30th, 2003, 08:39 PM

Ummm..yesss...sounds vey interesting...

I've always wanted to play a gipsy race ala battlestar galactica refugees, now perhaps I can play those left behind...hmmm...yesss....

Unknown_Enemy

December 30th, 2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I am thinking to give the AI high difficulty and medium bonus. This time around they will have the same poor start as the humans. Maybe if we have enough players we will go without AI alltogether. Actually I guess we could do that even with few players on a small map. You guys can let me know which way you prefer on that. If we go with AI I don't think they will be as significant a threat as they were Last time. I would say we need AI. An atraction in TGE is that AI are a treat because you are so weak when you start the game. But I am not sure about medium bonus. A player starting near 2 agresssive medium bonus AI would be in a difficult situation.
What about low bonus ?

Then, could we have 36h turns ? I am usually able to get a turn per day, byut sometime I need a few extra hours.

AMF

December 30th, 2003, 09:11 PM

Second that. In fact, anything less than 48 hrs is pretty tough for me on occasion.

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
Then, could we have 36h turns ? I am usually able to get a turn per day, byut sometime I need a few extra hours.

geoschmo

December 30th, 2003, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
I would say we need AI. An atraction in TGE is that AI are a treat because you are so weak when you start the game. But I am not sure about medium bonus. A player starting near 2 agresssive medium bonus AI would be in a difficult situation.
What about low bonus ?

Then, could we have 36h turns ? I am usually able to get a turn per day, byut sometime I need a few extra hours. Well, I would agree with TGE 1 and 2 the AI were nice because of the challange. But you maybe didn't understand my Last point. This time around the AI(if any) will be in exactly the same situation as you. A homewolrd with 1 mil pop and no faciliites. That's the reason I was suggesting giving them medium bonus. I have run some tests and they seem to do a decent job of rebuilding the HW. But knowing they won't be the threat they were in the first two games, would you still be as interested in having them?

Geoschmo

PvK

December 30th, 2003, 09:55 PM

How about using the PvK Balance Mod?

PvK

geoschmo

December 30th, 2003, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by PvK:
How about using the PvK Balance Mod?

PvK My first impulse would be not to. I typically try to avoid setting up games with more than one "hook". As it is strategies and empire setup are going to have to be reevaluated for the minimalized start, and throwing the balance mod in there just complicates that. However, I am always open to the wishes of the players. If they want to use it I won't object.

[ December 30, 2003, 20:10: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Gandalph

December 31st, 2003, 03:18 AM

I was in TGE 2 and it was a lot of fun, even though I made the mistake of taking bloodthirsty as my happiness type and did not realize what I had done until my people started rioting after signing a couple of treaties. I would enjoy another "type" of game.

I would not want to further confuse things by attaching a "mod" to it. I think the game setup itself is sufficient odds. I would accept AI's to participate with.

[ December 31, 2003, 01:19: Message edited by: Gandalph ]

Unknown_Enemy

December 31st, 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Well, I would agree with TGE 1 and 2 the AI were nice because of the challange. But you maybe didn't understand my Last point. This time around the AI(if any) will be in exactly the same situation as you. A homewolrd with 1 mil pop and no faciliites. That's the reason I was suggesting giving them medium bonus. I have run some tests and they seem to do a decent job of rebuilding the HW. But knowing they won't be the threat they were in the first two games, would you still be as interested in having them?

Geoschmo I understood your point, but I never run any test to see how do fare AIs in that particular setting.
The fun of TGE1&2 was that AI were a real threat when you started the game, but if you survived the first 2 years they were dead meat. What you have created here is quite different. So let's see how it will play, but I will fight to the bitter end anyway.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Unknown_Enemy

December 31st, 2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by alarikf:
Is there a possibility that after the first two years or so of the game that we might change the turnaround time to 48 hours? 24 hours is tough for me but should be ok in the boring beginning stages...but later will just kill me. If no one else has this problem, maybe I should bail so as not to risk holding people up later.
I suport a 36h turn.

Originally posted by Slynky:
Since a lot of people feel the Intel system is a bit flawed (or too simplistic..."my stack of points is bigger than your stack of points, so I win."), would you consider getting rid of it?I would say, if we have AI, let's trash intel, if only humans, let's keep it.

AMF

January 1st, 2004, 02:07 AM

Is there a possibility that after the first two years or so of the game that we might change the turnaround time to 48 hours? 24 hours is tough for me but should be ok in the boring beginning stages...but later will just kill me. If no one else has this problem, maybe I should bail so as not to risk holding people up later.

thanks,

Alarik

Ps: I'll get my empire in on Friday. Sorry for the delay. We're getting in a car for the inevitable new years eve drive today, will return friday...

Slynky

January 1st, 2004, 02:56 AM

Since a lot of people feel the Intel system is a bit flawed (or too simplistic..."my stack of points is bigger than your stack of points, so I win."), would you consider getting rid of it?

Slynky

January 4th, 2004, 04:49 PM

I've requested to join the game (yeah, like who cares, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Posting here to say that I have received a request from a rated player to be rated in this game. Of course, we need at least 2 for this to happen. I haven't decided yet (based on final game settings) so, there is still only one requesting a rating.

Are there any others at this point?

geoschmo

January 5th, 2004, 05:29 PM

People seem to be slow in getting their empire files uploaded. Everyone got the email that the game settings have been finalized, right?

Slynky

January 5th, 2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
People seem to be slow in getting their empire files uploaded. Everyone got the email that the game settings have been finalized, right? I might have missed it (among all those "proccessing" message I get). Are the settings on the game the final ones? 'Cause I was still waiting to find out if there would be intel and AI.

Slynky

January 5th, 2004, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
Seems we'll hit the 20 players for that game.
I usually hate games that are way too crowded, but well, I'll have to make an exception for this one. Well, if I understand it correctly, we won't be leaving the system for quite a few turns...so that will keep us away from each other for a while.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

geoschmo

January 5th, 2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
Are the settings on the game the final ones? 'Cause I was still waiting to find out if there would be intel and AI. Game settings are on the game info screen. I updated it. No intel, no AI. No direct tech trading, but trading ships for tech or pop is ok.

Slynky

January 5th, 2004, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Are the settings on the game the final ones? 'Cause I was still waiting to find out if there would be intel and AI. Game settings are on the game info screen. I updated it. No intel, no AI. No direct tech trading, but trading ships for tech or pop is ok. <hr /></blockquote>OK, I'll finalize mine today. Tks, Geo (not sure where that darn message got to... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif )

Unknown_Enemy

January 6th, 2004, 02:04 AM

Seems we'll hit the 20 players for that game.
I usually hate games that are way too crowded, but well, I'll have to make an exception for this one.

Slynky

January 6th, 2004, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Are the settings on the game the final ones? 'Cause I was still waiting to find out if there would be intel and AI. Game settings are on the game info screen. I updated it. No intel, no AI. No direct tech trading, but trading ships for tech or pop is ok. <hr /></blockquote>Actually, if I'm reading the right spot, on the PBW site (the game description) it says there will be AI. Am I in the wrong spot?

Slynky

January 7th, 2004, 03:20 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Are the settings on the game the final ones? 'Cause I was still waiting to find out if there would be intel and AI. Game settings are on the game info screen. I updated it. No intel, no AI. No direct tech trading, but trading ships for tech or pop is ok. <hr /></blockquote>Actually, if I'm reading the right spot, on the PBW site (the game description) it says there will be AI. Am I in the wrong spot? <hr /></blockquote>Found it under News (instead of the Description) DOH!

AMF

January 7th, 2004, 03:04 PM

I think some people need to get their EMPire files in for this game so we can get started http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

geoschmo

January 7th, 2004, 04:03 PM

Yes, I agree. I just sent out the following news, for those of you who don't get or check the emails...

Players, I need you to get your empire files uploaded so we can start
this game. I am not waiting for anymore players. If someone else applies
to join I will accept them, but if everybody that is in the game now
gets their empire file in I will start. If you don't upload your empire
file by tommorow or contact me with a reason by then why you haven't I
will assume you have lost interest and boot you from the game.

Slynky

January 7th, 2004, 04:09 PM

One might assume if a person is slow in getting an empire file in that person will be slow in getting turns in. (of course, being on auto-36...hehe...slowness here might not be a problem).

Unknown_Enemy

January 7th, 2004, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
One might assume if a person is slow in getting an empire file in that person will be slow in getting turns in. (of course, being on auto-36...hehe...slowness here might not be a problem). Don't bet on that.

Cheeze

January 7th, 2004, 04:58 PM

Hello!! Here I am trying to cut DOWN on my games, not join new ones. Darn SEIV addiction!!

Geo, I'll understand if you don't want to wait. Heck, I wasn't even sure what empire I wanted, but figured I better put in SOMETHING. I will have my emp file in tonight. I just wanted to check on the empire...can I loot the intel trait for use elsewhere?

AMF

January 7th, 2004, 05:07 PM

Re:

Originally posted by Cheeze:
...can I loot the intel trait for use elsewhere? Uhhh...I certainly hope so. I did.

Unknown_Enemy

January 7th, 2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Cheeze:
Hello!! Here I am trying to cut DOWN on my games, not join new ones. Darn SEIV addiction!!

Geo, I'll understand if you don't want to wait. Heck, I wasn't even sure what empire I wanted, but figured I better put in SOMETHING. I will have my emp file in tonight. I just wanted to check on the empire...can I loot the intel trait for use elsewhere? You'd better.

geoschmo

January 7th, 2004, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Cheeze:
can I loot the intel trait for use elsewhere? Yes, this is not Mediocrity. You can do anything you want with your empire setup as long as it's not more then 2000 points. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Cheeze

January 7th, 2004, 06:07 PM

That was the other game I was thinking to join. Gotta choose one or the other. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Alneyan

January 7th, 2004, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Cheeze:
Hello!! Here I am trying to cut DOWN on my games, not join new ones. Darn SEIV addiction!!

Geo, I'll understand if you don't want to wait. Heck, I wasn't even sure what empire I wanted, but figured I better put in SOMETHING. I will have my emp file in tonight. I just wanted to check on the empire...can I loot the intel trait for use elsewhere? I admit I am in the same bag, I am already playing too many games, and I signed up for another one. My own lateness for uploading the Empire file is for the same reason, I couldn't decide which sort of Empire I wanted to play. (I settled for something simple as you will see, but I digress) Now it is done though.

Nodachi

January 9th, 2004, 02:08 AM

Geo, could you reset my empire, please. I goofed and took a shipset someone else is using. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Slynky

January 9th, 2004, 03:01 AM

I will be rated in this game. This makes 3 of us: Gandalph, Alneyan, and me.

TerranC

January 9th, 2004, 04:21 AM

Wow. That was the most simplistic turn I've EVER played.

I can just tell this is going to be fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Edit: doh; posted while typing.

[ January 09, 2004, 02:21: Message edited by: TerranC ]

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 04:21 AM

Ok, I ended up going with 100k starting points because I realized in a test game that with 5K starting points you don't have enough resources to build a space port and a mineral facility, and your economy crashes before you can get started. Don't want that to happen, so you all should have 50K in storage now. Also you probably got a few techs researched with the first turn. That was all because of the AI using those 100K research points. What you have now is what you will have until you rebuild your homeworld.

Good luck.

TerranC

January 9th, 2004, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ok, I ended up going with 100k starting points because I realized in a test game that with 5K starting points you don't have enough resources to build a space port and a mineral facility, and your economy crashes before you can get started. Don't want that to happen, so you all should have 50K in storage now. Also you probably got a few techs researched with the first turn. That was all because of the AI using those 100K research points. What you have now is what you will have until you rebuild your homeworld.

Good luck. Shoot. Does this mean I have to play my turn again?

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by TerranC:
Shoot. Does this mean I have to play my turn again? Nope, I figured that all out before I uploaded the first turn to PBW. You are fine.

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by Nodachi:
Geo, could you reset my empire, please. I goofed and took a shipset someone else is using. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif Crud, I didn't see this post until I made the first turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Slynky

January 9th, 2004, 04:28 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
I will be rated in this game. This makes 3 of us: Gandalph, Alneyan, and me. I haven't seen the turn yet...I just read the news to the game. With the alteration in mineral assignment at the beginning of the game, I retract my statement about being rated in this game. I will NOT be rated in this game now.

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
I will be rated in this game. This makes 3 of us: Gandalph, Alneyan, and me. I haven't seen the turn yet...I just read the news to the game. With the alteration in mineral assignment at the beginning of the game, I retract my statement about being rated in this game. I will NOT be rated in this game now. <hr /></blockquote>Really? That makes a difference? Doesn't it affect everybody equally? Or were you planning on most of the players missing that point and so you'd have a quadrant full of easy pickings or something? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AMF

January 9th, 2004, 04:50 AM

"alteration in mineral assignment"? Did I miss something?

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
I will be rated in this game. This makes 3 of us: Gandalph, Alneyan, and me. I haven't seen the turn yet...I just read the news to the game. With the alteration in mineral assignment at the beginning of the game, I retract my statement about being rated in this game. I will NOT be rated in this game now. <hr /></blockquote>Really? That makes a difference? Doesn't it affect everybody equally? Or were you planning on most of the players missing that point and so you'd have a quadrant full of easy pickings or something? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>

AMF

January 9th, 2004, 04:52 AM

OK, it's counter-intuitive, but I presume that the AI tried to build a space port before anything else becuase I can't use ANY resources until I have a spaceport, even though I'm not really transporting those resources off my crappy homeworld, right?

thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ok, I ended up going with 100k starting points because I realized in a test game that with 5K starting points you don't have enough resources to build a space port and a mineral facility, and your economy crashes before you can get started. Don't want that to happen, so you all should have 50K in storage now. Also you probably got a few techs researched with the first turn. That was all because of the AI using those 100K research points. What you have now is what you will have until you rebuild your homeworld.

Good luck.

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by alarikf:
"alteration in mineral assignment"? Did I miss something?What he is refering to is that I changed teh starting resources from 5K as advertised to 100K for the game setup.

Originally posted by alarikf:
OK, it's counter-intuitive, but I presume that the AI tried to build a space port before anything else becuase I can't use ANY resources until I have a spaceport, even though I'm not really transporting those resources off my crappy homeworld, right?

thanks,

Alarik You need a space port even for your homeworld to get full value from your resource facilities. For systems outside your homesystem you get nothing without a space port. For your homesystem you get a fraction, 50% I think but I can't remmeber, without a space port. Yes, it's a bit counter intuitive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 09, 2004, 02:59: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 05:01 AM

For anyone that didn't get the news...

Ok, I am having a bad night. We have to wait on a new empire from
Nodachi. In addition, one player has raised a question about my changing the
game settings from 5K starting resources to 100K at the Last minute. He
feels that would have affected his empire setup. If anyone agrees with
this and would like to send me a revised empire file with the
understanding that it's to be a 100K start, I will use that for the restart.

Geoschmo

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 04:08 PM

The game is restarted. Not sure why the mail isn't working. Must be related to the DNS problem. There is a new turn and a new news message.

I attempted a compromise and went with 20K starting resources. The people without natural merchants are going to have to plan their first few turns carefully, but at least there is a posibility now that they can keep their empire economy from crashing if they play it right. As I realized with 5K there was no chance. It simply was impossible to build a space port and a single mineral fac before the storage would be depleted.

I hope noone minds too much that I changed the settings without asking. The reason I didn't was that honestly I saw no reason to change your empire file so taking a poll to me would have been another uneccesary delay. In my mind anyone that took Natural Merchants would have still taken natural merchants, whether the starting resources were 5k, 20k, or 100k. Those that did not take natural merchants would have been screwed with a 5K start because of a simple mistake in empire setup. That's no fun for them, and no fun for anyone beating them either.

If I had this to do over again from the start I would probably give people 4 faciliites instead of zero.

AMF

January 9th, 2004, 06:05 PM

You can count me as one of those dips who didn't realize the value in taking the natural merchants trait. At least I know that all my spaceports will be useless to everyone when y'all capture them!

Originally posted by geoschmo:
The game is restarted. Not sure why the mail isn't working. Must be related to the DNS problem. There is a new turn and a new news message.

I attempted a compromise and went with 20K starting resources. The people without natural merchants are going to have to plan their first few turns carefully, but at least there is a posibility now that they can keep their empire economy from crashing if they play it right. As I realized with 5K there was no chance. It simply was impossible to build a space port and a single mineral fac before the storage would be depleted.

I hope noone minds too much that I changed the settings without asking. The reason I didn't was that honestly I saw no reason to change your empire file so taking a poll to me would have been another uneccesary delay. In my mind anyone that took Natural Merchants would have still taken natural merchants, whether the starting resources were 5k, 20k, or 100k. Those that did not take natural merchants would have been screwed with a 5K start because of a simple mistake in empire setup. That's no fun for them, and no fun for anyone beating them either.

If I had this to do over again from the start I would probably give people 4 faciliites instead of zero.

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 06:45 PM

Email sent to catch everyone up to speed...

Players,

The game has been restarted, and the new turn is on PBW now. We are having an apparent DNS problem that is affecting the turn notice emails and the game news from being sent. Also, to get to the site and download your turn you will have to connect to http://69.3.206.249

Let me go through everything that happened step-by-step so noone has any confusion.

I created the first turn Last night. At the Last minute I realised that anyone that had decided not to choose the natural merchants racial trait would be totally screwed with this game as advertised because with only 5k starting resources you would not have enough to build even a space port and one mineral miner facilitiy. The result would be that your economy would crash and you could get next to nothing done. You'd have nothing in storage and 200 per turn coming in. At that rate it would take years (maybe decades) just to get enough mineral facilites built to be able to build a space yard while the players that happened to take natural merchants would be building up almost normally except for a few turns to rebuild their homeworlds.

I felt this was an unfair situation, so I decided to give everyone 100K starting resources. This would give you really 50K in storage to play with. I made this change at the Last minute and notified everyone by news along with the first turn.

I did not think anyone that had chosen natural merchants would decide to not take it just because they now had 100k to play with, and it was not my intention to allow every one that did not take it to change their mind after the game started since I was giving them more resources, they could avoid the econ crashing by a careful use of those resources in the first few turns. That is why I did not let everyone know before starting. I felt doing so would be an unneccesary delay in the game.

After the first turn went out I relized a couple people had duplicate shipsets. This I felt was sufficent reason for a restart and I sent a message asking those people to send me new empire files.

In the mean time one person expressed the opinion that I should have given people the opportunity to change their empires becuase of the higher amount of resources at start. I still don't understand it, but nonetheless I sent a message offering that opportunity. Noone, including that person, contacted me expressing a desire to do so.

This morning I restarted the game with the new shipsets and decided on a compromise and gave everyone 20K starting resources. This is enough that a non-Natural Merchant player will have enough to build enough facilities to prevent the economy from crashing, without giveing everybody full storage of resources.

I was not trying to take away the advantage of the natural resource trait. I still feel that it was a wise use of 1000 points for this game. But those players that decided not to take it at least now won't be totally screwed.

The game is ready to play now. I see no reason to do anymore restarts or allow anyone to revise their empire. To this point noone has revised their empires except for changing shipsets, so noone should feel that anyone has an advantage over them. Anyone that took Natural Merchants shuld not feel their choice has less value now, and no one that did not take natural merchants shuld feel they have no chance to compete now that they have 20K resources.

At least that's how I see it. If anyone disagrees and feels they should have another restart and a chance to revise their empire please let me know why and we will discuss it. Perhaps I am missing something that will help me see that point of view.

Otherwise, let's play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by alarikf:
You can count me as one of those dips who didn't realize the value in taking the natural merchants trait. At least I know that all my spaceports will be useless to everyone when y'all capture them!
I don't think you are a dip. Given enough resources at start to build a space port and a couple mineral faciliites not taking natural merchants equates to about a five turn head start for everybody else. That is big, but not everyone will agree that it's worth 1000 points. It depends on your play style, and how long you expect to Last in the game how much of a difference that five turns will make.

On the other hand, with only 5K reasources to start, natural merchants would have been an absolute neccesity. Without it you would not have enough to build a space port and a couple mineral facs and your economy dies. The result would be everybody that didn't take it would be dead in the water. I just don't see this as very fun, even for those of use that took it. It's a crudy way to win if your opponent can't even get off their homeworld.

AMF

January 10th, 2004, 10:02 PM

A while back, you implied that you had run games wherein the players started with *only* a set number of colony ships, and no planets.

I am interested in starting a game like that (I always have been, really) but not sure how exactly such a game would be created. Camn you tell me how I would go about doing that? For that matter, how did you make it so the TGE III game starts like it does?

Thanks,

Alarik

Slynky

January 11th, 2004, 05:21 AM

Sigh.....

Only turn 2 and already past the turn deadline.

Fyron

January 11th, 2004, 05:24 AM

Start the game and control all human empires. Build 3 colony ships, then scrap everything on the HW, space the people, and abandon it. Then, once all empires have just the 3 colony ships, put it on PBW and get going.

With TGE III, Geo used a mod to generate turn one that made the HW planets have 1 max pop and 0 max facility spaces, so they start out empty. Then, he processed a turn with stock SE4 to get it back to stock and uploaded that as the first turn on PBW.

Unknown_Enemy

January 11th, 2004, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
Sigh.....

Only turn 2 and already past the turn deadline. Sigh.....
Me miss autoturns.

AMF

January 12th, 2004, 07:10 PM

I am SO looking forward to next turn. I think I'll have...A facility!

woo hoo!

narf poit chez BOOM

January 12th, 2004, 07:38 PM

and you'll say 'NI!' until you get one?

AMF

January 12th, 2004, 08:42 PM

No, but I will talk incessantly about shrubbery and herrings. Especially the ones in cream sauce. Yummy!

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
and you'll say 'NI!' until you get one?

Cheeze

January 13th, 2004, 03:52 PM

alarik, I'm figuring I'll have a spaceyard by some time late next week, or the week following that...Woohoo!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AMF

January 13th, 2004, 06:24 PM

you're just trying to scare me...

Originally posted by Cheeze:
alarik, I'm figuring I'll have a spaceyard by some time late next week, or the week following that...Woohoo!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lord Chane

January 13th, 2004, 07:09 PM

At the rate the game is progressing, two of the first three turns having already fallen behind schedule, it'll be next month before I see my first shipyard.

geoschmo

January 13th, 2004, 07:15 PM

I am trying to keep up with it. New turn available now. Only a couple hours late. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

January 13th, 2004, 07:16 PM

Since you missed my question in the PBW thread... when is the timed processing part of automatic turn processing going to be turned back on for PBW?

geoschmo

January 13th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Since you missed my question in the PBW thread... when is the timed processing part of automatic turn processing going to be turned back on for PBW? Don't know yet.

Electrum

January 14th, 2004, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
I will be rated in this game. This makes 3 of us: Gandalph, Alneyan, and me. Could you please add me too. I've tried e-mailimg this request, but it must not have made it.
Thanks

Electrum

Slynky

January 15th, 2004, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Electrum:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
I will be rated in this game. This makes 3 of us: Gandalph, Alneyan, and me. Could you please add me too. I've tried e-mailimg this request, but it must not have made it.
Thanks

Electrum <hr /></blockquote>(1) I'll need to get approval of Gandalph and Alneyan and Geoschmo (currently, the only other rated players) since the game has started. They need to email me their private vote. I'll need a unanimous vote to let you count the game. Since the game has barely started, there might not be much disagreement

(2) Please click the link in my siggy and test sending me a message. If it doesn't work, I need to know. Thanks!

Electrum

January 15th, 2004, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Electrum:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
I will be rated in this game. This makes 3 of us: Gandalph, Alneyan, and me. Could you please add me too. I've tried e-mailimg this request, but it must not have made it.
Thanks

Electrum <hr /></blockquote>(1) I'll need to get approval of Gandalph and Alneyan and Geoschmo (currently, the only other rated players) since the game has started. They need to email me their private vote. I'll need a unanimous vote to let you count the game. Since the game has barely started, there might not be much disagreement

(2) Please click the link in my siggy and test sending me a message. If it doesn't work, I need to know. Thanks! <hr /></blockquote>I sent out another E-mail (this makes 4). Please let me know if it comes through.
Thanks

Paul1980au

January 15th, 2004, 05:03 AM

How big are the turn files i wouldnt mind a play by web game.

Renegade 13

January 15th, 2004, 06:20 AM

Turn files vary in size immensely. Some are as small as 100 kb, and as large as 700kb or so. But my PBW experience is limited, as I've just gotten into it recently. So those figures could be off a bit.

Unknown_Enemy

January 15th, 2004, 09:35 AM

Let me ask something :

For all the rated players, they have to win the game alone, not as an alliance right ?
If a rated player wins the game in an alliance with a non rated player, this game won't count for him rating wise.

Which means a player applying to be rated cannot be trusted for an alliance in the long term.
Did I get it right ?

geoschmo

January 15th, 2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:

Did I get it right ? No, as far as Ratings for that game go you ignore any none rated players in the game when calculating results. So if a rated player teams up with non-rated players and wins the game he still gets full credit for the win.

However, I am not sure how Slynky would handle a game where a couple of rated players teamed up together for the victory. I imagine he has some calulation for team victories, but I am not sure how it works.

EDIT: I may have spoken too soon. The Ratings rules say it has to be Last man standing. I think you could still team with a non-rated player since they aren't considered for Ratings puprposes, but I guess you can't team with a rated player. At least not all the way to the end.

Geoschmo

[ January 15, 2004, 11:15: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Slynky

January 15th, 2004, 03:13 PM

I'd just be happy if the turns could run http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif . Last turn took me about 20 seconds to do.

(Why oh why do I get into these games with so many players you can ALWAYS be sure the turn will run late because SOMEONE will always be negligent about doing their turn on time?)

geoschmo

January 15th, 2004, 03:18 PM

Once again, sorry about that. Turn is running now.

Slynky

January 16th, 2004, 01:53 AM

All the rated players have responded and the results are unanimous: It's OK for Electrum to count this game as a rated game.

Thanks for taking the time to message me, guys.

Slynky

January 17th, 2004, 04:18 AM

Actually, the joke is on me. Apparently, the "Experiment" is seeing how many consequetive turns a game can have that are beyond the time limit.

Now, for a lot of people, I guess it's no big deal. But for me, unless someone is going on a trip or vacation or their PC has broken (or some kind of excuse), a lackadaisical approach to completing turns on time tends to ruin the game for me a bit. Take the pleasure out of it, if you get my drift. I fail to understand why people sign up for games and can't even make the deadlines of the single-digit turns...where it takes about a half a minute to complete a turn.

So, knowing that things will only get worse, I'd like to advertise my position for takeover. I can't enjoy a game where I am eternally irked by continued lateness.

It's a good position...I've been in 1st place since the start of the game. Someone should take it over so that I don't have to pull out of the game (and therefore "hurt" the game for the other players).

geoschmo

January 17th, 2004, 04:43 AM

If it's a problem Slynky, just withdraw now. The Last couple turns have been held up by Goodops. Don't know him. This is the first game I've seen him in. If he misses any more I'll boot him. But if we are holding you up, by all means do what you have to do. I'll just let the AI play for anyone that wants to quit and it won't hold us up at all.

Slynky

January 17th, 2004, 04:44 AM

Update:

During the SY build, I've fallen to 4th place. (not wanting to be accused of false advertising http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Slynky

January 17th, 2004, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
If it's a problem Slynky, just withdraw now. The Last couple turns have been held up by Goodops. Don't know him. This is the first game I've seen him in. If he misses any more I'll boot him. But if we are holding you up, by all means do what you have to do. I'll just let the AI play for anyone that wants to quit and it won't hold us up at all. Not necessarily holding me up. It's just that it's going to be a slow tedius game in the beginning. Originally, it was posted at 24-hour TA time, I think. But changed to 36 'cause some people requested a longer time. And, we can't seem to meet that.

I guess it's just the anal-retentive part of me that gets irritated by this sort of thing. People who make a committment and don't keep it (for a reason I don't know about, admittedly). I find I enjoy games much more where the players always get the turn done on time.

Now, just so people don't think I'm some sort of butthole, Master Belisarius posted that he needed to be gone for week and our game was put on hold. I have no problem with that sort of thing at all.

Anyway, I don't want to pull. I'll wait till someone volunteers to take the position over. I'd hate for the AI to scrap the SY that is building in order to make something else http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

geoschmo

January 17th, 2004, 05:19 AM

Well anyway, I doubt you are going to find a replecment. With as many people as this game has pretty much anybody that wanted in got in. I don't want anyone to be unhappy with the game. If it's intolerable for you don't felel like you are going to let anyone down by jumping out. Some people wanted AI anyway. This way they will get them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I sent a news email just now to try and encourage people to play or drop out. Did you get it? I didn't get it myself. Not sure if the problem is sending or me not receiving.

Fyron

January 17th, 2004, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
I'd just be happy if the turns could run http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif . Last turn took me about 20 seconds to do.

(Why oh why do I get into these games with so many players you can ALWAYS be sure the turn will run late because SOMEONE will always be negligent about doing their turn on time?) It has nothing to do with negligence in the vast majority of cases, but with real life issues that cause everyone to not have the same amount of free time to devote to gaming that you do. Not everyone has the same schedule.

geoschmo

January 17th, 2004, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It has nothing to do with negligence in the vast majority of cases, but with real life issues that cause everyone to not have the same amount of free time to devote to gaming that you do. Not everyone has the same schedule. True, but Slynky's point is still valid. If people can't play turns at that rate they shouldn't join the game in the first place. Or if something comes up they can let everybody else know. Just not playing and not saying anything is not cool at all.

But this is a problem that really has no solution. All we can do is deal with it.

Geoschmo

Slynky

January 17th, 2004, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I sent a news email just now to try and encourage people to play or drop out. Did you get it? I didn't get it myself. Not sure if the problem is sending or me not receiving. Yes, I got it. I appreciate your efforts at trying to keep the game on schedule. I know it's aggravating.

Fyron

January 17th, 2004, 05:45 AM

Yes, they do not have the time to play their turn, but they will always have the time to go email everyone that they will not be able to play their turn for X hours or whatever? That is just not practical in most situations for short delays.

Slynky

January 17th, 2004, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It has nothing to do with negligence in the vast majority of cases, but with real life issues that cause everyone to not have the same amount of free time to devote to gaming that you do. Not everyone has the same schedule. True, but Slynky's point is still valid. If people can't play turns at that rate they shouldn't join the game in the first place. Or if something comes up they can let everybody else know. Just not playing and not saying anything is not cool at all.

But this is a problem that really has no solution. All we can do is deal with it.

Geoschmo <hr /></blockquote>I gotta echo Geo's comment. I try to forcast my real life needs with PBW games and join accordingly. Those who know me know I'm rarely late with a turn (maybe once in 500 turns). But, as Geo said, there's no real solution. Which is why I said I'd rather turn the position over to another player. And also why I said in an earlier post, "Why oh why...". ('cause they just sound so interesting but I need to keep telling myself, "DON'T get in games with more than 6 people!"... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

geoschmo

January 17th, 2004, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Yes, they do not have the time to play their turn, but they will always have the time to go email everyone that they will not be able to play their turn for X hours or whatever? That is just not practical in most situations for short delays. For short delays I don't think anyone would mind Fyron. In this case though we are looking at a guy who hasn't played in three days and hasn't left a message. And you don't have to email everyone, but you could let the game owner know.

Fyron

January 17th, 2004, 07:04 AM

So boot him and get over it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Electrum

January 17th, 2004, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
All the rated players have responded and the results are unanimous: It's OK for Electrum to count this game as a rated game.

Thanks for taking the time to message me, guys. Thanks for letting me in.
Slynky. Did you ever get my e-mail?

geoschmo

January 17th, 2004, 05:17 PM

Well, Goodoops withdrew. As soon as Gandalph plays his turn we'll get another one. Tweleve hours? Is it possible? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Slynky

January 18th, 2004, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by Electrum:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
All the rated players have responded and the results are unanimous: It's OK for Electrum to count this game as a rated game.

Thanks for taking the time to message me, guys. Thanks for letting me in.
Slynky. Did you ever get my e-mail? <hr /></blockquote>Never did get an email. If the email isn't successful...you should get a "kickback" message. Are you saying it just goes into "space" and that's the Last you "see" of it?

Electrum

January 18th, 2004, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Electrum:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
All the rated players have responded and the results are unanimous: It's OK for Electrum to count this game as a rated game.

Thanks for taking the time to message me, guys. Thanks for letting me in.
Slynky. Did you ever get my e-mail? <hr /></blockquote>Never did get an email. If the email isn't successful...you should get a "kickback" message. Are you saying it just goes into "space" and that's the Last you "see" of it? <hr /></blockquote>Pretty much! I've tried sending to myself (an alternate account) to make sure my settings were OK and it went through.
Go figure!

Greybeard

January 21st, 2004, 07:06 PM

If you need someone to take over an empire in this game, I'm willing to give it a go....Greybeard

geoschmo

January 21st, 2004, 07:07 PM

Well, someone took over for Goodoops already. But if we get another opening I'll try to remember to let you know.

Slynky

January 21st, 2004, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Greybeard:
If you need someone to take over an empire in this game, I'm willing to give it a go....Greybeard I advertised my position several days ago. It's still up for takeover if you're interested. I believe it's an above-average empire (one colony down, a ship coming off the line this turn, a tech breakthru this turn, and what appears to be a good location on the map).

You're welcome to it. (I don't think there is anything wrong with the position, I should just never join games with lots of people...though this one has been running OK lately)

Greybeard

January 21st, 2004, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Greybeard:
If you need someone to take over an empire in this game, I'm willing to give it a go....Greybeard I advertised my position several days ago. It's still up for takeover if you're interested. I believe it's an above-average empire (one colony down, a ship coming off the line this turn, a tech breakthru this turn, and what appears to be a good location on the map).

You're welcome to it. (I don't think there is anything wrong with the position, I should just never join games with lots of people...though this one has been running OK lately) <hr /></blockquote>I would be honored to take over for you. I will check the open games list and apply when the postion is open...Greybeard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Slynky

January 21st, 2004, 11:26 PM

There she is, Greybeard. Have fun!

Cheeze

January 22nd, 2004, 02:56 AM

Woohoo!! I'm about to launch my first ship! Look out universe, here we come!

To infinity....And beyond!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Greybeard

January 22nd, 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
There she is, Greybeard. Have fun! I'll join tonight after work...Greybeard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lord Chane

January 31st, 2004, 05:26 PM

Geo,

I thought the game was back on fully automatic turns. We're about 6 hours over the Last turn deadline. Did I misunderstand? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Slynky

January 31st, 2004, 09:58 PM

Hehe, thinking of my sanity makes me glad I turned it over to someone else. Seems the game is STILL crawling.

Hang in there, LC (hehe...your initials are what I use to name my light cruisers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

Fyron

January 31st, 2004, 10:55 PM

So impatient... Geo disabled auto processing Last night, as the server was taken offline for a few hours for maintenance. The plan was to turn it back on by noon, though I forget the timezone he listed. There is another thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=010854) where he posted about this.

[ January 31, 2004, 20:55: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Slynky

January 31st, 2004, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So impatient... Geo disabled auto processing Last night, as the server was taken offline for a few hours for maintenance. The plan was to turn it back on by noon, though I forget the timezone he listed. There is another thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=010854) where he posted about this. Regardless of the other thread, I was merely commenting on the slowness of the game (missing the deadline a significant number of turns so far) and how happy I am to have gotten out of it. That's all I was speaking about.

Fyron

February 1st, 2004, 12:14 AM

Well, only join small games in the future then. Games with nearly 20 people nearly always have some players miss each turn (not the same people every turn, different people). This is especially true when the turn duration is less than 48 hours.

[ January 31, 2004, 22:15: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

geoschmo

February 1st, 2004, 12:21 AM

Yes Fyron, Slynky has already decided that's what he's going to do.

Sorry about the turn. I intended to have it back on at noon and had to leave for a while today. It's back on now. The turn shuld be running momentarily.

Geoschmo

Unknown_Enemy

February 4th, 2004, 01:45 PM

If Geo could gently crush the "next turn" button, I think my happiness would soar up !
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 04, 2004, 11:45: Message edited by: Unknown_Enemy ]

Greybeard

February 4th, 2004, 03:43 PM

I appreciated the extra time for the Last turn. My computer is now back in its place and working much better. However, it was strange to miss the turn and have all of my construction queues empty. I won't let that happen again!

Having two ships propelled me into 1st place though...Greybeard

geoschmo

February 5th, 2004, 02:26 AM

I'd like to give Rimfire just a bit more time. It's entirely possible that he has tried to get his turn in the Last two nights and been unable to because of the server problems. I will shoot him an email though.

Geoschmo

Cheeze

February 6th, 2004, 05:12 AM

Oh this is great! I finally made first contact (peacefully) and soon I might even leave my home system!!

Things are just racing along now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

taterbill

February 6th, 2004, 07:02 AM

Somebody please just find me and come put me out of my misery in this game. I've explored seven systems around me so far: two nebulas, one trinary w/o planets, and four normal systems completely devoid of breathable planets. Sigh. Don't guess anybody wants to jump in and take my spot do they?

Unknown_Enemy

February 8th, 2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
If Geo could gently crush the "next turn" button, I think my happiness would soar up !
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif bump

Unknown_Enemy

February 10th, 2004, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
If Geo could gently crush the "next turn" button, I think my happiness would soar up !
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif bump <hr /></blockquote>Bumpy-Bump !
I am an auto turn by myself !

Unknown_Enemy

February 13th, 2004, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
If Geo could gently crush the "next turn" button, I think my happiness would soar up !
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif tickity-bumpy-dumpy-bump

Unknown_Enemy

February 15th, 2004, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
If Geo could gently crush the "next turn" button, I think my happiness would soar up !
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Bumpa-bumpy-bump
Would be soo cool to turn on the auto turn...

Slynky

February 15th, 2004, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Unknown_Enemy:
If Geo could gently crush the "next turn" button, I think my happiness would soar up !
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Bumpa-bumpy-bump
Would be soo cool to turn on the auto turn... <hr /></blockquote>http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

geoschmo

March 13th, 2004, 07:06 PM

No, he said he wasn't quite dead, but nearly so. I will wait a bit to see if anyone wants to give his empire a shot, and then mark it dead eventually.

Electrum

March 14th, 2004, 02:43 AM

What happenned to taterbill? did he withdraw accidentally?

Cheeze

March 23rd, 2004, 06:15 AM

Are there other empires dying off before their time?

Electrum

August 15th, 2004, 09:48 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Is someone out of town?

geoschmo

June 1st, 2005, 04:38 PM

In case you didn't get the email, the game is back on fully auto turns, but at a slower pace for now. I have set it up to run a turn this sunday (June 5th). If you haven't done your turn and you are planning on continuing in the game, get it in by Sunday or let me know if you can't. If you've had enough of the game feel free to drop out. We'll find a replacment or let the AI run it. Well run one a week turns (Faster if everyone gets their turn in) for a couple months and look at speeding things up in the fall.