Favorite Star Trek episode [Archive]

boromeo

January 5th, 2004, 09:04 AM

Well i have another favorite one apart the Doomsday machine...but i can t say the title since I don t know this title in english (I m a french canadian and i watched the original serie in french) but the episode was this one where the Enterprise crew were like the Klingon Empire.

As far as Voyager and the other Star Trek series are concerned they are not yet translated in french so i have to watch them in english...but they lack the flavor and taste of the original serie that was the best and will remain so i guess

I even saw a site where people didn t like how Kirk died ..for a hero dyin by fallin down a mountain (Is the way he really died since i ve missed somrthin about it) was not a way such a hero deserve

and i was astonished to the news that Deforest Kelly alias Bones died may he rest in peace !

and this question for you Atrocities ..Will The Star Trek mode be updated in the near future or is the mod already perfect to your eye ?

and for the others please give me your favorite episode for the original Star Trek since i m planning to create a Star Trek original (in french and english) site in the near future and would put this statistics in it !..Thanks .. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

January 5th, 2004, 09:56 AM

The episode your are talking about is named Mirror Mirror. It was later used as the basis for several DS9 episodes.

Kamog

January 5th, 2004, 10:01 AM

I have two favorite episodes from the original series.

Episode 2: Where No Man Has Gone Before
(The one in which they go to the edge of the galaxy and two of the crew members get powerful psychic powers.)

Episode 37: The Changeling
(The one in which they encounter the powerful 'Nomad' probe)

Well, the third favorite is:
Episode 24: Space Seed
(They find Khan and his group in the ship S.S. Botany Bay)

Atrocities

January 5th, 2004, 10:02 AM

question for you Atrocities ..Will The Star Trek mode be updated in the near future or is the mod already perfect to your eye ? The mod will be updated as updates become available based upon bug reports and or player suggested improvement. Right now I have a few excellent player suggested improvements that are being hashed out.

The mod is far from perfect. You should read the Star Trek Mod Discussion thread for updated info as well as the early Posts in the Klingon Thread.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif www.astmod.com/startrek/stm.htm (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stm.htm)

Puke

January 5th, 2004, 11:33 AM

Lots of good episodes, lots of bad ones. Lots of mixed elements. I can think of good and bad bits of any of the episodes that I try to take seriously or overanalyze, so Im not going to call any of those my Favorites.

For the less serious episodes, everyone always picks the trouble with tribbles. The DS9 Version of it was much better than the original, though I enjoyed them both. Anyhow, out of all the serise, here is my pick:

Classic Trek. Favorite Episode:

Spock's Brain

Of course, the actress that played the android clone in "What Are Little Girld Made Of?" was darn hot. I tried to look her up to see if she was in anything else, but it does not seem like she had any other roles in film or television.

Maerlyn

January 5th, 2004, 01:19 PM

my all over Favorites are the voyager episodes:

one year in hell (temporary technologies rox, yeah!) and the species 8579 vs Borg episodes.

Renegade 13

January 5th, 2004, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Maerlyn:
...and the species 8579 vs Borg episodes. Umm, that should be 8472 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

My favorite episodes are definitly the DS9 episodes towards the end that had the massive fleet battles, and the final two Voyager episodes with the ablative armor, transphasic torpedos, and the transwarp hub. I just love to see them Borg get blown up by "inferior" species.

David E. Gervais

January 5th, 2004, 05:34 PM

My Star Trek: ToS Favorite episodes are...

1) The City on the Edge of Forever.
2) The Trouble With Tribbles.
3) A Piece of the Action.

ST:TnG:

The episode where Wesly Crusher leaves the show.

ST: DsN:

I'm indifferent to the whole series.

ST: Voyager:

The episode where the ship is stuck in orbit and watch the planet go through centries of evolution. A very interesting show indeed.

ST: Enterprise:

I'm indifferent to the whole series. (Not fond of the opening music, it does not seem to 'fit' the show)

another $0.02 from me to you. Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ January 05, 2004, 15:35: Message edited by: David E. Gervais ]

Growltigger

January 5th, 2004, 05:53 PM

My 1 pence for you all (about $0.02 given the current Sterling/Dollar exchange rates http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Original Star Trek

Choice of two for me, the episode where they meet the Romulan warbird bLasting the federation base, or the episode where they meet the funny carpet-like creature which burrows through rock and murders people, but actually is a very nice evil minded murdering varmint

Next Generation

Dunno, any episode that doesnt revolve around Wesley having growing pains, or Ryker/Data/Geordie insert lead character of choice having some personal problems.

Personally, any episode with a high body count

Deep Space Nine

Better show for me, basically any of the Dominion War epsisodes with a high body count were fine with me

Voyager

Hmmmmm, not convinced on this one, but again, any episode with a bit of mayhem was quite entertaining

Enterprise

I quite like this one, if mainly cos the weapons officer is English. And T'pol does help on the eye candy front - basically, any episode where T'Pol wears a tight T shirt, and that Redneck person gets a "whuppin'" (is that how you say it?)

Imperial

January 5th, 2004, 06:42 PM

my ToS favorite is Mirror Mirror I still enjoy watching it.

gregebowman

January 5th, 2004, 10:24 PM

Of the 79 episodes from the original show, I can only think of a handful that were my Favorites. The first one that comes to mind is Court Martial. Maybe it was my love of Perry Mason at the time, but this has been my favorite for a long time. Then there's Space Seed, The Trouble With Tribbles, The Balance of Terror and The City On The Edge of Forever. My least favorite, and the one I hate the most, is Turnabout Intruder.

As far as TNG, the one I like the best is the one where Picard lives the life of a man from a long dead planet. Can't remember the title right now.

Even though I watched DS9, there are a lot of gaps in my viewing, so I can't really saw which one was my favorite.

As far as Voyager, I liked the 2 parter where that one race took over the Voyager and had the crew go through all sorts of scenarios with the holodecks.

And I haven't been able to watch enough of Enterprise to get a grasp of the whole show, although I must admit I do like the title of the pilot episode, Broken Bow, since I am from Oklahoma. But I have no idea where Broken Bow is.

Iansidious

January 5th, 2004, 11:46 PM

One of my favorite Star Trek episode from TOS would be "The Squire of Gothos". Who doesn't love little Trelane? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif There is a good Star Trek book called " Q Squared" that brings Trelane back during the TNG era to battle Q. Trelane gains MORE power than the Q continuum. If you want to read it keep sharp it can confuse lower life forms. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geckomlis

January 6th, 2004, 12:07 AM

Original show: "Mirror, Mirror"
I.S.S. Enterprise
Evil Spock "... and some of my operatives are Vulcans."

DavidG

January 6th, 2004, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Puke:
Classic Trek. Favorite Episode:

Spock's Brain

Ah yes. Origin of one of the calssic quotes of all time.

Kirk: Is he dead?
Bones: It's worse than that jim, they took his brain!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Atrocities

January 6th, 2004, 08:31 AM

TOS had something that non of the other shows had. That being a sense of being. I can't specifically describe it, but for me TOS, not counting the lame episodes, had more of a real human experience to it. People died, sometimes without meaning, as in real life. I believed that Kirk cared about his ship and crew above all else, and the relationship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy was real. You had humor, pain, love, action, drama, basically everything. There was no commanding the ship by committee, Kirk was in charge, and everyone knew it. It was more real to me as it was more military based and not so politically correct as TNG was.

I loved TNG because of the cast and stories. Indeed there were many fine episodes that really had heart to them. The Picard one where he lived a lifetime on a planet in 20 minutes was a true visceral classic. Yesterdays Enterprise was the closes TNG ever got to TOS in respect to military feel. Both shows had their own personality and I loved them both very much.

DS9 was, and is in my opinion, one of the best character driven series of the franchise. I loved this show because it had dealt with deep character flaws and human emotion on a grand scale, war. It was depressing, uplifting, challenging, strange, and fun all at the same time. DS9 was also the only series to truly keep a linear story line. They had continuity throughout the seven years it ran. And no one can deny the appeal of seeing a dramatic space battle can bring to a show on the scale that DS9 had brought it to us.

I enjoyed the characters, all of them, and felt that throughout the seven years DS9 paid more homage to the Original series than all of the others had combined. We had the Mirror universe revisited on several occasions, and we finally found out what happened to the four Klingons from TOS. Koloth, Kang, Kor, and the weasel one from Trouble with Tribles.

The series was a grand experience.

Voyager, well I really did not like this series. I felt that it had the greatest potential out of all of them, but it lacked continuity and attention to detail on a grand scale. It is hard to believe the credibility of a show that pays no attention to the finer aspects of plot lines and established fact. A ship lost in space for over seven years, constantly doing battle and losing crew members should look the part. They should have concentrated on that a lot more than they had. Voyager looked brand new in the end, and despite the loose of life they had to endure throughout the series, they still managed to have nearly a full complement of crew. (Trek Fans kept count and the official number of counted crew members is well over 200. Another credibility issue.)

Never the less, Voyager had some damn fine episodes and was in the end, Star Trek to the core.

Enterprise is a nice series. I like the music at the start even though I thought I would not. The series seems lost though with no direction. Even with this rip off story arc from Crusader/Starblazers the show still feels as if it is rudderless.

The nice thing about Enterprise is the cast. Well done. The stories are ok, although a bit boring. The special effects are by far the best of the all the series and movies. The continuity issues can all be explained away with the Temporal Cold War. For in the end, Archer's adventures may not have ever happened. We won't know until the end.

As for the movies:

STTMP - What a dismal depressing movie this was. Love the Enterprise and it was Star Trek so I will not complain further.

ST II TWOK - Hot damn fine movie.
ST III TSFS - A stepping stone and ground breaking movie. New ships, new possibilities, humor, and Nemoy at the helm.
ST IV TVH - I did not like it.
ST V TFF - Oh brother! Someone should have taken Shatner out to the back lot and smacked him around. There are not 200 decks on the Enterprise!
ST VI TUDC - Damn fine movie with some major plot holes the size of a super nova, but what the hell, still fun to watch.

ST VII STG - I loved this movie because it dealt with something close to my heart, loss.

ST VIII FC - I hated this movie from start to finish. Horrible story, dumb concept, dismally depressing. Nice Enterprise and some good humor though.

ST IX Insurrection - I enjoyed this movie because it was a well done movie. I hated it because it has no action.

ST X - Nemeses - Well now, Data died.

From the first episode, the Cage, to the Last book released Star Trek has been, and I hope will continue to be, one fantastic ride.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 6th, 2004, 08:42 AM

Ah yes. Origin of one of the calssic quotes of all time.

Kirk: Is he dead?
Bones: It's worse than that jim, they took his brain!!
BRAINS!! BRAINS!!

gregebowman

January 6th, 2004, 05:25 PM

Atrocities, I may have to disagree on your assessments on some of the movies. Granted, the first one wasn't the best movie ever made, but at the time it came out, 1979, it was the first new Star Trek for a generation who never saw it live and had to settle for the various edited cuts that were released in sydication. So I went and saw it 5 times. And I had to wait an extra 6 months to see it, because of the way movies were distributed back then, the movie didn't come to my home town until Memorial Day 1980!!

ST 2 - I think by far the best of the movies. I just wished that in the movie they had made a reference to that boy Scotty was holding in his arms. It was his nephew, but we were never told that in the movie.

ST 3 - Although not great, it was good. I just wish the trailers didn't reveal that the Enterprise was going to be destroyed. They should have kept that as much a secret as possible.

ST 4 - I liked it. Although it did seem like an overlong commerical for Save the Whales, it had its moments.

ST 5 - I agree with you on your asseessment of Shatner's directorial debut. It sucked, and it will be the only ST movie I will not buy on dvd.

ST 6 - a murder mystery in space. But it was still a good movie.

ST-Gen - My jury is still out on this movie. It's ok, but maybe it was the way they killed off Kirk that made me not like it. (Personally, I always thought he'd get killed off by a jealous lover of one of his female conquests!!)

ST-FC - This is another one I disagree with you on. I loved this movie, and it's my second favorite after Wrath of Kahn. I just wish they could have used the original actor for Cochrane, but I think he died quite a few years ago.

ST-I - It was ok, but it could have been better. Seemed like an overlong episode from the series, but at least Troy & Riker got back together.

ST-N - Too many questions about this movie that made me not enjoy it. First of all, WEsley was a Traveller Last we saw, so why is he there in uniform? How did the Romulans find a imperfect copy of Data? And why kill off Data? Sure, Brent Spiner may have been tired of the role, but if this was going to be the Last film of this crew, I thought it was unnecessary.

Fyron

January 6th, 2004, 07:09 PM

DS9 was, and is in my opinion, one of the best character driven series of the franchise. I loved this show because it had dealt with deep character flaws and human emotion on a grand scale, war. It was depressing, uplifting, challenging, strange, and fun all at the same time. DS9 was also the only series to truly keep a linear story line. They had continuity throughout the seven years it ran. And no one can deny the appeal of seeing a dramatic space battle can bring to a show on the scale that DS9 had brought it to us. Seems to me that you should love Babylon 5... much of DS9 was a ripoff of B5 in the first place...

A ship lost in space for over seven years, constantly doing battle and losing crew members should look the part. They should have concentrated on that a lot more than they had. Voyager looked brand new in the end, and despite the loose of life they had to endure throughout the series, they still managed to have nearly a full complement of crew. You greatly underestimate the abilities of the replicator and the technology to manipulate matter on a molecular level. It would not be very hard to keep the ship looking like new when you can use a handheld device capable of repairing it (especially cosmetically) in mere seconds. Just look at the tools they have available in ST. Small little laser thingies that can patch holes in the hull, can weld dense metals together in seconds, etc.

(Trek Fans kept count and the official number of counted crew members is well over 200. Another credibility issue.) As I have said before, this is 100% irrelevant. It would be rather difficult and a waste of money to make sure that you have all of the same extras over a 7 year period. So they used different extras over time. Big deal. Only people without anything approaching a meaningful life would care enough about the number of extras used to take the time to count them up.

The continuity issues can all be explained away with the Temporal Cold War. For in the end, Archer's adventures may not have ever happened. We won't know until the end.
That is a cheap cop-out for the crap they constantly pull with Enterprise. Don't make apologies for poor decisions of others AT.

[ January 06, 2004, 17:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

tesco samoa

January 7th, 2004, 02:25 AM

Over the break I finally got a chance to watch the directors Version dvd of the motion picture and wrath of Khan.

Wow were they ever fantastic....

The motion picture was redone. As was the music.

They based it on the old story Boards... The documentaries were really good.

And Khan. Well what can we say... Buried Alive...
Fantastic.

If you have been pondering picking up the director DVD's please do so.

Next up is star trek 3... Which I always felt had such a dark feeling for Star Trek. And a fantastic sound track

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> DS9 was, and is in my opinion, one of the best character driven series of the franchise. I loved this show because it had dealt with deep character flaws and human emotion on a grand scale, war. It was depressing, uplifting, challenging, strange, and fun all at the same time. DS9 was also the only series to truly keep a linear story line. They had continuity throughout the seven years it ran. And no one can deny the appeal of seeing a dramatic space battle can bring to a show on the scale that DS9 had brought it to us. Seems to me that you should love Babylon 5... much of DS9 was a ripoff of B5 in the first place...

Babylon 5 was written years before DS9 was ever aired so to say it copied Babylon 5 is incorrect. Great minds do think alike, and to say that Paramout copied Warner Brothers is wrong.

A ship lost in space for over seven years, constantly doing battle and losing crew members should look the part. They should have concentrated on that a lot more than they had. Voyager looked brand new in the end, and despite the loose of life they had to endure throughout the series, they still managed to have nearly a full complement of crew.[/qb] You greatly underestimate the abilities of the replicator and the technology to manipulate matter on a molecular level. It would not be very hard to keep the ship looking like new when you can use a handheld device capable of repairing it (especially cosmetically) in mere seconds. Just look at the tools they have available in ST. Small little laser thingies that can patch holes in the hull, can weld dense metals together in seconds, etc.

They can not repulate Titanium and dura steel. Those raw materials have to be gathered, refined, and processed into usuable material. Replicators have very little if anything to do with it. And besides, Voyager never had any Industrial Replicators on board. They just had standard crew and small part replicators according to the ship schematics.

(Trek Fans kept count and the official number of counted crew members is well over 200. Another credibility issue.) As I have said before, this is 100% irrelevant. It would be rather difficult and a waste of money to make sure that you have all of the same extras over a 7 year period. So they used different extras over time. Big deal. Only people without anything approaching a meaningful life would care enough about the number of extras used to take the time to count them up.

And as I have said nothing is irrelevant if it compermises the credibility of the show.

The continuity issues can all be explained away with the Temporal Cold War. For in the end, Archer's adventures may not have ever happened. We won't know until the end.
That is a cheap cop-out for the crap they constantly pull with Enterprise. Don't make apologies for poor decisions of others AT. <hr /></blockquote>Who's making excuses for others? This is my thoughts on how they will end the series, nothing more. No matter what I think, I know they will end the series in a comfusing, controversal, and down right dumb way. So don't chastise me for trying to come up with an intellegent way out for people who more than likely haven't thought that far ahead! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 09:09 AM

Oh don't get me wrong, I loved STMP for many years and steal feel that it was a good movie. I just didn't like the cold feel of the movie.

ST 2 - I think by far the best of the movies. I just wished that in the movie they had made a reference to that boy Scotty was holding in his arms. It was his nephew, but we were never told that in the movie.In the extended Version of the movie they do tell you who the boy was. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

ST 3 - Although not great, it was good. I just wish the trailers didn't reveal that the Enterprise was going to be destroyed. They should have kept that as much a secret as possible.Nemoy fought the inclussion of the material showing the Enterprise being destroyed, but Paramout said it was to stay in. ST 3 was a milestone movie for many reasons. It set the Star Trek into a whole new direction and gave people hope for a new series and more movies. It was the first movie to show us the Klingon BOP, Space Dock, Sarek, Vulcan, the Excelcior, and deal with the death of the Enterprise and Kirks son.

ST 4 - I liked it. Although it did seem like an overlong commerical for Save the Whales, it had its moments.It was a good movie, "double dumb *** on you!" But for me it was.. missing something. Albeit at the end that something was joyfully shown.

ST 5 - I agree with you on your asseessment of Shatner's directorial debut. It sucked, and it will be the only ST movie I will not buy on dvd.The overall movie was not bad. The story was interesting and all, but man there were a lot of plot holes that should have been plugged up long before the movie ever went to production. The whole Enterprise not working and stuff could have been rewritten to say the Enterprise was in for Refit. The climb up the turbo shaft should have been left out completely. The special effects should have been handled by ILM instead of that low budge place they used. Over all the movie was not that bad. It ties in very well with Shatners books.

ST 6 - a murder mystery in space. But it was still a good movie.Other than some minor lines about navy termenology that should have been rewritten, a few plot holes, and a lack of material the movie worked well. I loved the sound track and over all story.

ST-Gen - My jury is still out on this movie. It's ok, but maybe it was the way they killed off Kirk that made me not like it. (Personally, I always thought he'd get killed off by a jealous lover of one of his female conquests!!)I tend to agree about the Kirk thing, but again if you read his books, his death is explained. You see great people do "die alone." (This ties back to his stayment in ST 5 about dying alone.)

ST-FC - This is another one I disagree with you on. I loved this movie, and it's my second favorite after Wrath of Kahn. I just wish they could have used the original actor for Cochrane, but I think he died quite a few years ago.Why I hate this movie is because of the way they did it. They never explained why they sent only ONE cube to Earth, nor why they came in the first place. They had a great oppurtunity here to make the Borg into something grand, but dropped the ball horribly. The whole concept of First Contact was lame as hell, and they never did tell us how they got the Warp Ship back down to Earth?

I just simply disliked this movie because it lacked a lot of what should have been good Star Trek.

ST-I - It was ok, but it could have been better. Seemed like an overlong episode from the series, but at least Troy & Riker got back together.I don't know why I like this movie so much. For me it must be the way it was shot. It is simply a well done movie, err two hour episode, that reminded me of why I enjoyed STNG so much as a series.

ST-N - Too many questions about this movie that made me not enjoy it. First of all, WEsley was a Traveller Last we saw, so why is he there in uniform? How did the Romulans find a imperfect copy of Data? And why kill off Data? Sure, Brent Spiner may have been tired of the role, but if this was going to be the Last film of this crew, I thought it was unnecessary.Again this movie could have been something special but instead it became something far less than it could have become.

All in all ST II The Wrath Of Kahn holds the top honor out of the 10 movies. Why you ask? Because it is a classic good vs evil, action packed drama with history, talent, suspence and a good honest story that simply was brillant.

oleg

January 7th, 2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Atrocities:

... Seems to me that you should love Babylon 5... much of DS9 was a ripoff of B5 in the first place...

Babylon 5 was written years before DS9 was ever aired so to say it copied Babylon 5 is incorrect. Great minds do think alike, and to say that Paramout copied Warner Brothers is wrong.

[/QUOTE]

"great minds do think alike" is a great excuse for the plagiat. And that is exactly what Paramount did, IMO.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 7th, 2004, 10:47 AM

can i get an expansion of those acronyms? i'm not to good at converting acronyms into names. thanks.

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Atrocities:

... Seems to me that you should love Babylon 5... much of DS9 was a ripoff of B5 in the first place...

Babylon 5 was written years before DS9 was ever aired so to say it copied Babylon 5 is incorrect. Great minds do think alike, and to say that Paramout copied Warner Brothers is wrong.

<hr /></blockquote>"great minds do think alike" is a great excuse for the plagiat. And that is exactly what Paramount did, IMO. [/QUOTE]

No offense to any one implied or intended, all opinions are equal here.

There really is no connection between B5 and DS9. If you look at the stories and compare them episode to episode, there are no comparissions. The Federation never had a Civil War or a Psy Core. The only comparissions that can be made are the name Dukat, and wow, they both have a fricking space station. Whoop'd'do call the lawyers we have a lawsuit!

Seriously, B5 was the better series and we all know this. The two series were so far apart from one another that NO ONE at paramount or Warner Brothers ever said anything about the other copying anything from the other.

This comparisson is ubserd at best and ridiculous to even be discussing IMHO.

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
can i get an expansion of those acronyms? i'm not to good at converting acronyms into names. thanks. ST 1 = (ST I) Star Trek The Motion Picture
ST 2 = (ST II) Star Trek The Wrath of Kahn
ST 3 = (ST III) Star Trek The Search For Spock
ST 4 = (ST IV) Star Trek The Voyage Home
ST 5 = (ST V) Star Trek The Final Frontier
ST 6 = (ST VI) Star Trek The Undiscovered Country
ST 7 = (ST VII) Star Trek Generations
ST 8 = (ST VIII) Star Trek First Contact
ST 9 = (ST IX) Star Trek Insurrection
ST 10 = (ST X) Star Trek Nemesis

TMP = The Motion Picture
FC = First Contact
I = Insurrection

TOS = Trek Original Series
STNG and TNG = Star Trek The Next Generation
Ent = Enterprise
DS9 = Deep Space Nine
Voy = Voyager

B5 = Babylon 5

STTMP = Star Trek The Motion Picture
STTWoK = Star Trek The Wrath Of Kahn
STTSFS = Star Trek The Search For Spock
STTVH = Star Trek The Voyage Home
STTFF = Star Trek The Final Frontier
STTUDC = Star Trek The Undiscovered Country
STG = Star Trek Generations
STFC = Star Trek First Contact
STI = Star Trek Insurrection
STN = Star Trek Nemesis

narf poit chez BOOM

January 7th, 2004, 11:24 AM

thanks.

*join the FAAA and help end the madness! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif *

oleg

January 7th, 2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
No offense to any one implied or intended, all opinions are equal here.

There really is no connection between B5 and DS9. If you look at the stories and compare them episode to episode, there are no comparissions. The Federation never had a Civil War or a Psy Core. The only comparissions that can be made are the name Dukat, and wow, they both have a fricking space station. Whoop'd'do call the lawyers we have a lawsuit!

Seriously, B5 was the better series and we all know this. The two series were so far apart from one another that NO ONE at paramount or Warner Brothers ever said anything about the other copying anything from the other.

This comparisson is ubserd at best and ridiculous to even be discussing IMHO. JMS himself implied that authors of DS9 plagiarized his work. Fragment of the discussion with JMS posting:
http://lists.cs.columbia.edu/pipermail/b5jms/1999-May/003950.html

narf poit chez BOOM

January 7th, 2004, 12:07 PM

personally, i think all tv shows should be distributed via internet. that way, we could pay for the shows we like and no commercials.

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 12:10 PM

I think George Lucas made the same claim about Battlestar Galactica.

The point is, simularities do not mean plagerism occured. I can understand JMS's position, but he has no proof that it occured. Besides, even it if they did steal from him, and I yes it is possible, he never filed a complaint or lawsuit over it.

To stand back 10 years after the fact now and say they stoled from him, well whats the point really? To prove me wrong and shut me up? If there is no proof, there is no proof. It all becomes speculation and accusation, and that is something I simply could careless about.

If they stoled from him, then shame on them. I don't like the people who produced DS9 for the most part as they all think they are the greatest thing to ever walk the earth. So ya it is possible that they did steal from JMS, and if they did, I sincerely hope that someday he proves it and makes them all look like the arse holes they are.

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
personally, i think all tv shows should be distributed via internet. that way, we could pay for the shows we like and no commercials. Narf they tied that twice before. Cable and then later Satellite TV. Pay for a subscription on the premis that there will be less or no commericals, but guess what, they lied.

Eventually they will offer such a service, but again it will have commericals. IF they say it won't, remember they hold doctorate degrees in lying to people.

I wonder what an employer would think if you applied for a job and your Doctrate was Lying?

gregebowman

January 7th, 2004, 03:05 PM

I agree. Even though there are some fairly minor similarities (whoa, a space station, whopee!!), the storylines and backgrounds were so dissimilar that I could never see any plagiarism. But I must admit, there are some episodes on both shows I never saw.

Also, Atrocities, I agree that ST 2 was the best of the movies, but there's one thing about the movie that's been bugging me for 22 years now. Who were Khan's crew? They looked way too young to be his original co-fugitives; and they looked too old to be 13 or 14 year olds, as this movie happened about 15 years after the Space Seed episode. And Joachim wasn't the original actor either; they used a younger actor. Anybody got a clue?

Cipher7071

January 7th, 2004, 03:55 PM

personally, i think all tv shows should be distributed via internet. that way, we could pay for the shows we like and no commercials.

narf, isn't that what they said when cable TV first came out?

Must have seen all of the original Star Trek episodes three times at least, but do you think I can remember the names?

The ones alredy mentioned that I like best are "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "Spock's Brain."

Not mentioned is the episode where they come upon a planet where there are no adults, and find out that it's because a disease kills everyone as soon as they reach puberty. The catch is that it also slows down the aging process.

Another one I like is "Skin of Evil," from the 'next generation' series.

oleg

January 7th, 2004, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
I agree. Even though there are some fairly minor similarities (whoa, a space station, whopee Simililarities !? Do you know the history how DS9 come to life at the first place ?
Here is another JMS post on the subject:
_______________________________________________

IslanderUK wrote: "I seem to recall reading in one of the B5 magazines that when JMS was
first trying to sell the idea of B5, he was aware that DS9 was also in
the pipeline, so to say that DS9 is a knock-off is not strictly true
although some of the later story lines are similar."

Negative. We began trying to sell the B5 series to everyone in
town, including Paramount, 5 years prior to getting a Go order. The B5
series was announced in early November of that year. There was NO set
ST series by that point. Over the following Christmas weekend, I got a
phone call from someone very closely involved with Trek, who said,
"They just decided what the new Trek show is going to be. It's about a
space station that's a center of commerce, with a travel gate nearby."

So your information is quite incorrect. Nor did it come from
the B5 magazine (there's only one).

"Still JMS must be quite pleased if it is a knock-off, as to copy ones
ideas is the greatest form of praise."

Let me steal your car and see if you feel the same way
afterward.

jms

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
I agree. Even though there are some fairly minor similarities (whoa, a space station, whopee!!), the storylines and backgrounds were so dissimilar that I could never see any plagiarism. But I must admit, there are some episodes on both shows I never saw.

Also, Atrocities, I agree that ST 2 was the best of the movies, but there's one thing about the movie that's been bugging me for 22 years now. Who were Khan's crew? They looked way too young to be his original co-fugitives; and they looked too old to be 13 or 14 year olds, as this movie happened about 15 years after the Space Seed episode. And Joachim wasn't the original actor either; they used a younger actor. Anybody got a clue? I honestly don't know the answer to this. It has been debated for many years, but I personally think that the crew we saw in ST II were primarly made up of crew members that we did not see in Space Seed.

Ever wonder why Kahn recognized Chekov even though he was not in the episode?

Walter K. explained this once at a convention that I attened for work. (News Pass)

He stated that he was working the night shift and was not feeling so good. On his way to the bridge he had to stop and use one of the Crew restrooms. Khan in the mean time could not get his toilet to work and you know after being frozen for 200 years, he had to go pretty damn bad. So he ran out of his quarters and went right to the same crew restroom that Chekov was using. Needless to say Chekov told him to wait and Kahn being Khan ripped the door open, grabbed poor Chekov lifting him into the air and said, "I will never foget your face!" Then threw him to the corridor deck and stepped into the restroom and closed the door.

If he said it went down this way, who are we to argue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ January 07, 2004, 14:08: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

gregebowman

January 7th, 2004, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gregebowman:
I agree. Even though there are some fairly minor similarities (whoa, a space station, whopee!!), the storylines and backgrounds were so dissimilar that I could never see any plagiarism. But I must admit, there are some episodes on both shows I never saw.

Also, Atrocities, I agree that ST 2 was the best of the movies, but there's one thing about the movie that's been bugging me for 22 years now. Who were Khan's crew? They looked way too young to be his original co-fugitives; and they looked too old to be 13 or 14 year olds, as this movie happened about 15 years after the Space Seed episode. And Joachim wasn't the original actor either; they used a younger actor. Anybody got a clue? I honestly don't know the answer to this. It has been debated for many years, but I personally think that the crew we saw in ST II were primarly made up of crew members that we did not see in Space Seed.

Ever wonder why Kahn recognized Chekov even though he was not in the episode?

Walter K. explained this once at a convention that I attened for work. (News Pass)

He stated that he was working the night shift and was not feeling so good. On his way to the bridge he had to stop and use one of the Crew restrooms. Khan in the mean time could not get his toilet to work and you know after being frozen for 200 years, he had to go pretty damn bad. So he ran out of his quarters and went right to the same crew restroom that Chekov was using. Needless to say Chekov told him to wait and Kahn being Khan ripped the door open, grabbed poor Chekov lifting him into the air and said, "I will never foget your face!" Then threw him to the corridor deck and stepped into the restroom and closed the door.

If he said it went down this way, who are we to argue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <hr /></blockquote>IIRC, I heard the similar story from George Takei at the only Star Trek convention I've ever attended in Phoenix. It is a funny story, even if it may not be true.

Fyron

January 7th, 2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by oleg:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gregebowman:
I agree. Even though there are some fairly minor similarities (whoa, a space station, whopee Simililarities !? Do you know the history how DS9 come to life at the first place ?
Here is another JMS post on the subject:
<hr /></blockquote>Gotta love speculation based directly on fact... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Electrum

January 7th, 2004, 08:08 PM

What do you think about the making of New TOS series with for download. go to:
http://www.5yearmission.com

As far as the ST Franchise, I've enjoyed it all. So they mess up the continuity. So what! Just enjoy the ride!

gregebowman

January 7th, 2004, 08:20 PM

Most people don't know this, but there was going to be a second Star Trek series featuring the original crew. They went so far as to have models made and some scripts were written. But for whatever reason, they made ST:TMP instead. One wonders what that series may have been like.

JurijD

January 7th, 2004, 08:23 PM

TNG: I like the whole series but I like the Offspring (Data makes another android) and The first one with Hyu .. (the borg... I don't know how its spelled) best.

Voyager: Endgame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

DS9: Whole show, prolly the ones at the end best.

Enterprise: the one they meet the Romulans for the first time, don't know the title.

Electrum

January 7th, 2004, 08:25 PM

OK! I can't type well. Let me clarify my Last post. go to the mentioned link. A number of people have gotten together to make episodes of TOS. They got different actors and it's low budget. These will only be available for download

Puke

January 7th, 2004, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Electrum:
What do you think about the making of New TOS series with for download. go to:
http://www.5yearmission.com hey, that looks like it could be really cool!

Atrocities

January 7th, 2004, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Most people don't know this, but there was going to be a second Star Trek series featuring the original crew. They went so far as to have models made and some scripts were written. But for whatever reason, they made ST:TMP instead. One wonders what that series may have been like. Out of all the scripts they commissioned for Series II, only one made it to STNG. Any one remember the episode where the women changes into the Klingon devil and trys to claim ownership over an entire planet?

Loser

January 8th, 2004, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Out of all the scripts they commissioned for Series II, only one made it to STNG. Any one remember the episode where the women changes into the Klingon devil and trys to claim ownership over an entire planet? yeah, that was a great idea. "Any sufficiently advanced technology..."

Paul1980au

January 8th, 2004, 01:21 AM

ANy sufficent technology is that which allows space flight.

Fyron

January 8th, 2004, 02:21 AM

Erm... no it isn't. The Aztecs thought that the first Spanish conquistadors were ancient gods returned to them, because they had sufficiently advanced technology for it to look like magic. Gunpowder muskets compared to bows and spears, anyone?

Cipher7071

January 8th, 2004, 06:20 AM

Fyron...I like the range.

Fyron

January 8th, 2004, 06:22 AM

Huh? What range? I am confused. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

January 8th, 2004, 07:08 AM

well, musket's didn't have much of one. a good spear-chucker could probably out-range them. well, maybe not the bullet's total range, but it's effective range as far as hitting what your aiming at is concerned.

that might be his point.

[ January 08, 2004, 05:08: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

gregebowman

January 8th, 2004, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gregebowman:
Most people don't know this, but there was going to be a second Star Trek series featuring the original crew. They went so far as to have models made and some scripts were written. But for whatever reason, they made ST:TMP instead. One wonders what that series may have been like. Out of all the scripts they commissioned for Series II, only one made it to STNG. Any one remember the episode where the women changes into the Klingon devil and trys to claim ownership over an entire planet? <hr /></blockquote>Actually, IIRC, two scripts were combined to make ST:TMP. But I still think it was a two hour remake of the Changeling episode.

Atrocities

January 8th, 2004, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Cipher7071:
Fyron...I like the range. The range of smooth bore muskets was utterly pitiful, not to mention the cloud that obscured visibility.

But what can you say, the certainly did kill those poor savages in great numbers and for what, gold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Back in those days they were savages to killing them was "ok" by order of the church. Go figure, if you were to add up all of the deaths that have been "ok" in the name of God under some religion, you would discover you couldn't count that high in your life time.

I think religion was invented to thin the herd.

Fyron

January 8th, 2004, 07:10 PM

God is the number one cause of death throughout history, afterall.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 8th, 2004, 10:18 PM

God is the number one cause of death throughout history, afterall.
again, it's ambitious leader's who were probably athiests and intollerance.

TerranC

January 9th, 2004, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />
God is the number one cause of death throughout history, afterall.
again, it's ambitious leader's who were probably athiests and intollerance. <hr /></blockquote>Many ambitious and great leaders, thinkers, doers, and etc had belonged to a certain religion, and some were even devout.

Cipher7071

January 9th, 2004, 04:23 AM

Well, ya learn something new every day, I guess. I knew those old muskets were nowhere near as good as what we have today, but I never realized they were quite that bad. So the natives lost to fear and surprise more than they did to superior weaponry.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 9th, 2004, 04:23 AM

Many ambitious and great leaders, thinkers, doers, and etc had belonged to a certain religion, and some were even devout.
indeed. and not all of them were evil. i might also point out that evil people tend to worship themselves.

Fyron

January 9th, 2004, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by Cipher7071:
Well, ya learn something new every day, I guess. I knew those old muskets were nowhere near as good as what we have today, but I never realized they were quite that bad. So the natives lost to fear and surprise more than they did to superior weaponry. And to the steel currais that the conquistadors wore, which deflected arrows and spears rather well. And then the belief (initially) that they were ancient gods returned.

Fyron

January 9th, 2004, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
indeed. and not all of them were evil. i might also point out that evil people tend to worship themselves. Most ambitious leaders throughout history have been rather religious.

Loser

January 9th, 2004, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Most ambitious leaders throughout history have been rather religious. eh?

Well, it's only anecdotal evidence, but: Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Hussein (ambition there, not so much success), no really enthusiastic religion there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Fyron

January 9th, 2004, 04:35 AM

I was talking about the whole of history, not recent times. Atheism is much more accepted in the modern eras than it has been in ancient eras.

Though, Stalin and Hitler did kill a lot of people because of their religious views... my initial comment had nothing to do with the person in charge being especially religious...

[ January 09, 2004, 02:36: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron

January 9th, 2004, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
again, it's ambitious leader's who were probably athiests and intollerance. Also, keep in mind that throughout history, there has been in general an inverse relation between religious devotion and tolerance.

[ January 09, 2004, 02:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

narf poit chez BOOM

January 9th, 2004, 08:49 AM

Also, keep in mind that throughout history, there has been in general an inverse relation between religious devotion and tolerance.
how do you measure religious devotion if people aren't killing each other over it? no, really. some merchant in 200BC makes 2,000GP, makes a record of it, tell me people aren't going to assume he wasn't religious if he doesn't include religeon in his financial records, which he probably won't. and how do you know his religious devotion isn't peacefull? i would say that during times of war is when religious retoric is used the most(keeping in mind that retoric just means arguments and is not a value judgement) so how do you get an accurate count of religious devotion when peacefull people are generally quieter about there religeon than violent people? plus, of course, in times of crisis, people will be more religious. they may lapse after, in which case it was need, not faith.

aside from all my other arguements.

[ January 09, 2004, 06:54: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

JurijD

January 9th, 2004, 11:50 AM

I agree with Pinky here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Saying that god is the caouse of death is as silly as saying its the guns fault... I didn't kill him, the gun did.

you have to remember that: The devil can always quote the bible to suit his/her http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif needs.

Yes people often used religion as an excuse for wars BUT whoever STICKS to the modern ideals of these great world religions (Islam, Christianity, Budism, Hinduism etc.) is a person who is peaceful and tolerant.

gregebowman

January 9th, 2004, 03:38 PM

It seems to me that the Spanish were rather brutal in their conVersion process. Anyone remember the Inquisition? It was convert or die. NOw, what kind of choise is that? Give up my god or go to face him/her/it? I'm glad we live in a more enlightened time (not counting the extreme muslims) and country (if you live in the US). At least most of us can choose our religion nowadays, instead of having it forced down our throats.

Fyron

January 9th, 2004, 08:12 PM

You have missed the point entirely... I never said that all religious people are bad or anything of the sort. Or that "god" killed people. Difference in cultural values is most often what precipitates and allows wars to occur. Religion is a big part of that. Historically, people generally have a much higher tendency to accept wars fought specifically against "heathens" than against "normal people." Most wars throughout history can be traced back to having either a religious cause or high level religious support.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 9th, 2004, 09:37 PM

and what i'm saying is that those were intollerant periods, not nessasarily intollerent religeons.

President_Elect_Shang

January 9th, 2004, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
It seems to me that the Spanish were rather brutal in their conVersion process. Anyone remember the Inquisition? It was convert or die. NOw, what kind of choise is that? Give up my god or go to face him/her/it? I'm glad we live in a more enlightened time (not counting the extreme muslims) and country (if you live in the US). At least most of us can choose our religion nowadays, instead of having it forced down our throats. Don�t take this wrong, but the Inquisition was spread throughout Europe. Not to all parts, and even in the areas it happened it was not evenly applied, punished, tortured, um whatever. It is more of a Hollywood notion, the �Spanish Inquisition� (which I take it you are referring to) than to an actual Spanish only Inquisition as the name may imply, and thus mislead some. I hope this proves to be some good info, if not and you already new than just disregard.

President_Elect_Shang

January 9th, 2004, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by boromeo:
What was your favorite original Star Trek episode ?

For me it was The Doomsday machine

I d like to hear what yours was.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Anyway back to the topic anyone? Trouble with Tribbles hands down. Where DID you send them Mr. Spock? The Klingons baby, yaaa, lets get grooovy!

[ January 09, 2004, 19:44: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

tesco samoa

January 9th, 2004, 09:53 PM

Star Trek 6 directors cut is coming out Jan 24th...

geoschmo

January 9th, 2004, 09:57 PM

My favorite was the one where the captain got split in the transporter into good Kirk and bad Kirk. The best part of that episode was when they had the big fight in engineering. It got so hard to switch seamlessly between Kirk, Kirk, Stuntman A and Stuntman B that it was almost like they stopped trying. "Hey wait, that's not Kirk. Wahhh?!?" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Speaking of engineering, what purpose did those white PVC pipe thingys serve other then convienent bats for Kirk to pull out and wack someone over the head with at the end of the fights? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Cheeze

January 9th, 2004, 09:57 PM

"Naked Time" - if I have the name right on the episode. Spock getting the "seven year itch", T'Pau, the lyrpa...and of course, the greatest fight music ever created. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif "Trouble With Tribbles" also gets the nod as a more comedic episode. Harry Mudd was a great recurring character. And the alternate universe..."I have many operatives, and some of them are Vulcan". Set the standard for all parallel universes being evil and having beards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I liked Doomsday Machine because there was a ship crewed entirely by Vulcans, and the illogic of such a weapon was beyond their understanding.

In TNG, "Rightful Heir" and many of the episodes positively focusing on Worf. The Borg shows are great, "Hugh" was a good twist, but I'd even add in the McCarthy-like trial episode. That one got me watching and enjoying TNG.

I do enjoy Enterprise. This past week's was a good one. I wasn't sure until the end if the show was going to end with the Zendi as diverse and divided (some even being unaware of the war), or if it was going to swerve us and have that Zendi character deliberately leading Archer astray.

[ January 09, 2004, 20:00: Message edited by: Cheeze ]

Atrocities

January 9th, 2004, 10:44 PM

There were so many good episodes of Star Trek the original series that even today kids seem to enjoy watching them. They all gripe about the special effects, but overall the stories are solid and enjoyable.

What I loved most about the old series was the cool toys they had. Those tri-corders, phasers, and communicators were just fricking cool.

The show was decidedly more military oriented than later series and I think that is also why it has such a unique feel to it.

The series also seem the most real to me. They had batteries onbaord the star ship when things went south. Thing broke, engines overheated, circutes blew out, people died.

To mean TOS represents the way thing could be, without thefuncky costumes that is, if we are lucky enough to expand our technology and move out into the stars.

gregebowman

January 9th, 2004, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Star Trek 6 directors cut is coming out Jan 24th... Already got it reserved. Can't wait to see the extras on this one.

Cheese, the episode where an all Vulcan ship, the Intrepid, was involved was not the Doomsday Machine but the Immunity Syndrome. Although the Doomsday Machine is a good episode. It introduces us to Matt Decker, who's the father of the Decker we see in ST:TMP. Spock getting the "seven year itch" was Amok Time.

But you're right about the TNG Worf/Klingon episodes. They were among the best of the series, and I wish they had made more of them.

Fyron

January 10th, 2004, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
and what i'm saying is that those were intollerant periods, not nessasarily intollerent religeons. Any religion that claims it is the one true religion (such as all monotheistic religions to one degree or another) is an intolerant religion. There are very few tolerant religions out there.

Fyron

January 10th, 2004, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
There were so many good episodes of Star Trek the original series that even today kids seem to enjoy watching them. They all gripe about the special effects, but overall the stories are solid and enjoyable.

Hmm... I find 95% or more of them to just be corny stories...

geoschmo

January 10th, 2004, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Any religion that claims it is the one true religion (such as all monotheistic religions to one degree or another) is an intolerant religion. There are very few tolerant religions out there. A religion is not intolerant simply because they beleive they alone represent the singular true religion. As long as they acknowledge that all human beings are endowed by their creator with the freedom to choose right from wrong for themselves, and do not feel that they have the right or duty to compel others to follow their beliefs. A religion can believe that I am wrong, and as long as they leave me be, or at most simply express that opinion to me, and leave me to decide for myself whether they are correct, I would define as tolerant.

By your definition Fyron you are extremely intolerant yourself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ January 09, 2004, 22:42: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Fyron

January 10th, 2004, 01:20 AM

Yeah... that is nice on paper, but more often than not fails to hold up in the real world (especially when you look at historical events, not just the past few decades).

How am I intolerant by my own definition? I do not interfere with people following whatever religion they arbitrarily follow (or for those very select few that actually "shopped around" for their religion to find the one that suits them best, whatever they chose; although what they end up choosing is still fairly arbitrary, based on how they were raised to think and all...). This does not stop me from discussing such issues, of course, any more than your views stop you from discussion.

geoschmo

January 10th, 2004, 03:04 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
How am I intolerant by my own definition? I do not interfere with people following whatever religion they arbitrarily follow ... This does not stop me from discussing such issues, of course, any more than your views stop you from discussion. I was not talking strictly of religion, but of your tendency to have firmly held positions on various subjects. You believe you are right and others are wrong. There is nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with discussing topics of disagreement. But according to your definition it's not neccesary for the religions to interfere with others of differing beliefs to be labled as intolerant, simply that they only accept one Version of the truth and reject all others as false.

By that definition of intolerant, you are. For that mater by that definition of intolerant, everybody is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

January 10th, 2004, 07:49 AM

Any religion that claims it is the one true religion (such as all monotheistic religions to one degree or another) is an intolerant religion. There are very few tolerant religions out there.
toleration is required of opinions and people. respect is only required of people and to a lesser extent, animals. to an even lesser extent, objects.

that Last bit wasn't required.

[ January 10, 2004, 07:23: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

boromeo

January 10th, 2004, 10:19 AM

Well..I was surprised to see so many answers to my topic...nearly half of it answered what i was asking..So i repeat it ! :

WAS WAS YOUR FAVORITE STAR TREK EPISODE ?
Thanks !.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

If you wanna talk about religions just start a new thread please.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Don t take it personnaly but i need stats for a new site of mine about the original Star Trek serie !

Thanks for your comprehension !..

tesco samoa

January 10th, 2004, 06:23 PM

One DS9 one I always liked was worf's Batcholar Party. The scene when Worf asks if some one will offer their blood and everyone steps back except for the good doctor. Loved that one. THat was one of the funniest ones ever. Just written for the hard core fans...

I am currently watching STar Trek 3.
I really like that one. THe music is so moody. And L.M. directed it very well. The scene with the mind meld with kirk and sarak. With the clock ticking in the background....

"And don't call me Tiny"

Atrocities

January 10th, 2004, 06:54 PM

Kirk to McCoy
"How many fingers am I holding up."
McCoy to Kirk
"Thats not very damned funny."

Excelecior to Mr. Scott
"What Level?"
Mr. Scott's Reply
"Up your shaft."

"My god man with ears like those." - McCoy

Kirk
"My God Bones, what have I done?"
Bones
"What you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live."

Ahhhhh the memories. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

geoschmo

January 10th, 2004, 07:26 PM

"No, I'm from Iowa. I only work in space."

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

My favorite DS9's were anything with Evil Kira. Major Kira was hot already, but Evil Kira...growllll. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Randallw

January 11th, 2004, 01:19 PM

Ok heres what i think of the ST series.
(disclaimer: ok I'll admit I like special effects)

TOS (The Original Series (or as i see it The Old Series))
I only saw these Last like at least 10 or 15 years ago. Can't say much except they at least created Star Trek.

Movies
Love the third movie, I have it on tape. The rest are not of any interest except NG, particularly First Contact and Ive never seen the first one or Nemesis.

Next Gen
Any episode exploring the Klingons. Later episodes as well. I think the effects, sets and costumes get better near the end (of course). Its funny that in early NG episodes its a big battle when Enterprise fights Warbirds or 3 Birds of Prey, at the end of DS9 its 600 vs 1200.

DS9
Gets better in the Last few seasons as they have the war. Ok, so some people think DS9 is a rip of B5. If DS9 is a copy of B5 then its a superior copy. Kudos to B5 for the idea of a 5 year arc and great effects, particularly mass driving Narn into the stone age. hey I recorded every episode at the time, and still find the tapes with old episodes on them, not something i did with DS9. But go back to the beginning after you have seen the whole thing and laugh at the sets, costumes and acting. We have a B-grade actor, a semi porn star, an ex-stockbroker, and a child star. At least Deleen has a Yugoslavian Oscar. Oh and great job killing off a character to save a character who goes and leaves the show straight away. Yeah i know most of the budget was on the great CGI battles. Remove the suspense after you know the plot and the episodes have nil watch again capacity (cue B5 fans saying, but you see something you missed before each time you watch). Finally I must note my displeasure at the battles at the end of DS9. Where i live we are at least 2 years behind in showing (apparently the local network puts it on but doesn't care about it, 1 o'clock in the morning) so i saw each episode on video once the war started. I looked forward to great effects during the final battle and what do we get, clips thrown together from previous episodes.

Voyager
I liked any episode with the Borg. Liked the Temporal weapons episodes as well. Kes is just someone who happened to be around in the first year or two.

Enterprise
So far great again. Favourite episode is the one with the Borg. Great to see Archer and the others getting their comeuppance from the Borg,("Lets save those poor scientists", well Archer lad fat chance of that). Bad how Phlox can remove nanoprobes even though they can't do it in another 200 years, still the requirements of the plot takes precedent. Theres always a chance some merchant vessel will find those 2 Borg like Lore was found (as if thats going to happen). I hear Archer loses his dogoodness against the Xindi and is willing to do anything to stop them. Trip should not lose his hatred for what they did. I look forward to the episode where the planet killer is destroyed at the Last minute (and hopefully malfunctions wiping out the Xindi)

and now to get off topic.

some people are going on about people being killed in the name of God etc. Someone brought up their view of the Inquisition. Heres mine if the discussion is open.First my father is protestant and my sister happens to be orthodox. Stories of the cruelty during the Inquisition are stories made up by protestants to discredit The Church. Ok, some people may disagree, thats their view, this is mine. Hey, I saw it on a TV documentary so it must be true, right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Wardad

January 11th, 2004, 04:42 PM

Tolerance?

My grandpa was Catholic and married a Protestant.

They raised my father Catholic, and my aunt Protestant.

My father married a Protestant.

All 5 of us boys were raised Catholic. (no girls)

I married a Protestant and have 2 sons.

When my sons grow up, I hope they marry a member of the opposite sect.

--------------------------------------------
It's true, and a possible solution for all the Irish.

--------------------------------------------
Being part Irish and part German, I just want to get drunk and conquer the universe.

[ January 11, 2004, 14:46: Message edited by: Wardad ]

geoschmo

January 11th, 2004, 04:54 PM

Guys, let's repsect Boromeo's wishes and move the tolerance discussion to another thread, if anyone is interested in continuing it at this point.

Geoschmo

oleg

January 11th, 2004, 07:52 PM

I saw the "ceasefire" episode of Enterprise first time today. Very nice shots of Vulcan and Andorians ships !!

Atrocities, can you tweak Andorian shipset and include some ships similar to Andorian's ships shown in this episode ? They seem more like whales, not birds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

gregebowman

January 12th, 2004, 03:17 PM

The problems with having a 3 year old who refuses to go to bed at 8:00 like we want him to. I've only seen 1 1/2 episodes this season. Borg???? Definitely missed them, but it was Q who off-handedly let the Borg know about the Federation and the Alpha Quandrant. If it hadn't been for that, it might have been a couple hundred more years before the Borg to that area of space. And as far as the Xindri, again, I've missed those episodes. Even though I haven't been able to afford to buy any of the Star Trek dvd collections (all over $100), I might somehow save the money to buy the ones for Enterprise when they come out, as I'm so lost I don't know what's going on. Speaking of Enterprise, of the ones I've seen, my favorite is the one where the 3 Vulcans crashland in 1950's America and have to live there for awhile. I'm hoping they show the fate of the Vulcan who stayed behind.

geoschmo

January 12th, 2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Borg???? Definitely missed them, but it was Q who off-handedly let the Borg know about the Federation and the Alpha Quandrant. If it hadn't been for that, it might have been a couple hundred more years before the Borg to that area of space. That was pretty much my reaction as well when I heard they were doing that. What they did was never mention the borg by name, like the Enterprise episode with the Ferengi if you saw that one. We the viewers know who they were, but the people in the episode don't.

What it's supposed to be is the Borg Sphere that went back in time in the Star Trek First Contact movie didn't actually disintigrate in space like we thought, but part of it stayed together long enough to crash land at one of the polar regions. There buried in the ice it laid dormant until discovered by scientists during the time on earth when Archer's Enterprise was making it's voyage.

One of the scientists get's assimilated and takes off in a warp capable ship and leaves earth. Presumably to return to the Delta quadrant and tell the current Borg to come and assimilate the pre-federation earth, although we don't really know that. Archer is ordered to intercept the ship and...ah, I'll leave it at that so you still have some suprise if you happen to catch it in reruns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

[ January 12, 2004, 13:58: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

gregebowman

January 12th, 2004, 05:10 PM

Thanks for the info on that episode. I'll try to catch the rerun, but even though they show the repeats in Tampa on Saturday nights at 10:00, it's still hard for me to catch them then.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 12th, 2004, 09:16 PM

my favorite star trek episode's are now the five-minute ones.

Janeway: Um, what is a Cardassian bomb doing in the middle of the Delta Quadrant?
Torres: It looks like the backstroke.
Janeway: Groan. Just for that, this is going to be your character development episode.
Torres: Crap.

Loser

January 12th, 2004, 09:24 PM

Where did that come from, Narf?

narf poit chez BOOM

January 12th, 2004, 09:26 PM

well, i got it from another thread: http://www.3sygma.com/fiveminute/

[ January 12, 2004, 19:39: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

narf poit chez BOOM

January 12th, 2004, 10:18 PM

well, five-minute voyager was fun, but i decided to move on.

Bloodmist: Join me, for I am your evil clone!
Rev: That's way too clich�d. Tone it down.
Bloodmist: Evil twin, then.
Rev: Almost as bad.
Bloodmist: Brother?
Rev: Getting better....
Bloodmist: Fellow Magog trying to return you to the fold?
Rev: Bingo.

oogs

January 16th, 2004, 07:05 AM

My fav episode is "The Sacrifice of Angels" from DS9. This is only because of the massive battle between the Federation/Kilngon and Cardassian/Dominion fleet though.... I always enjoy watching two galaxy-class cruisers destroy a galor-class cruiser http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

January 16th, 2004, 07:09 AM

I still like the fleet battles in Babylon 5 and its movies better myself, but those battles in DS9 were certainly good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

January 16th, 2004, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I still like the fleet battles in Babylon 5 and its movies better myself, but those battles in DS9 were certainly good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Ya could you imagine how lame those battles would have been had they all been done with models.

The Last Star Fighter really set the standard into motion and man how it has come from that to what we whave now. I really wanna work in this industry, 3d graphics, but all the I have read about the industry says that it is a cutthroat, backstabbing, politically angled, every weasle for himself industry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Why can't we all just do what we want to do for a living without all of the office/high school/childish brat, cry baby, yuppy, ultra liberal BS?

Why?

Fyron

January 16th, 2004, 07:18 AM

Erm... don't be so quick to label that stuff as "ultra-liberal"... it does not go anywhere on the (limited and useless) political scale.

gregebowman

January 16th, 2004, 04:34 PM

Atrocities, you're right. CGI has come a long way since The Last Starfighter. I still enjoy watching the movie, though, even though you have to cringe when you look at the prehistoric graphics they used (and they were probably state of the art at the time). I'm glad Spielberg used CGI for Jurassic Park. George Lucas saw the missing ingredient he needed to make the prequel trilogy. I wouldn't mind working for ILM, but I have no graphics experience, and I haven't put together a pLastic model since I was probably 17.

Cipher7071

January 20th, 2004, 05:20 PM

I was just lurking in another thread, and the topic reminded me of another good original Star Trek episode where Kirk ended up in a zoo somewhere. They put him in an exhibit with a rather fetching, scantily-clothed woman. Naturally, I can't remember the name of that episode either...

(I'm so proud of myself for resisting the temptation to post this in that thread)

gregebowman

January 20th, 2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Cipher7071:
I was just lurking in another thread, and the topic reminded me of another good original Star Trek episode where Kirk ended up in a zoo somewhere. They put him in an exhibit with a rather fetching, scantily-clothed woman. Naturally, I can't remember the name of that episode either...

(I'm so proud of myself for resisting the temptation to post this in that thread) I'm scratching my head. The only zoo episode that I can recall was The Cage, later renamed The Menagerie, and that involved Christopher Pike, played by Jeffery Hunter. I can't recall any other episode involving a zoo reference with Kirk, unless it was the episode where they needed Kirk's blood so the girl he was with could get something from his blood so that her world could do something with curtailing the population. Can't remember the name of that episode.

Cipher7071

January 20th, 2004, 06:03 PM

You're right, GB. It was the Jeffrey Hunter Episode.

tesco samoa

January 27th, 2004, 09:09 PM

Star Trek VI: Undiscover Country is out today... the new directors edition. I also hear that the next 4 movies will also get the same treatment as the TOS movies

gregebowman

January 27th, 2004, 10:25 PM

I just picked up my ST6 today. Can't wait to watch it and what all of those extras are. Need to pick up 2-4, though. I have the earlier Version of 2, but I still haven't bought the collector's edition. I hate it when the movie studios will release a movie, then a year or two later, the deluxe Version will come out, then maybe a year or two later, the special edition comes out, then in another year or two, the ultimate edition comes out. I got 2 Versions of Escape from New York, T2, and a couple of other movies that I bought awhile ago and then a new edition came out. IIRC, I have 3 Versions of Stargate. And being the video (or shouldn't that be dvd) phile that I am, I have to get that latest edition. But come on, when you release the dvd, you should add all of those goodies on there the first time. Don't make us buy another edition every other year or so!

Atrocities

January 28th, 2004, 09:40 AM

I agree with you 100% Greg. (Nice avatar btw http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Please post about ST 6. I would love to know if it is worth picking up the "special edition" or not.

gregebowman

January 28th, 2004, 03:48 PM

Will do, but let me warn you. Finding the time to watch a movie in my house is probably on the par with the odds of getting hit by lightning or winning the lottery. Unless you're talking about whatever movie my 3 year old wants to see. Which is usually an Ernest film or Kangaroo Jack, with the occassional Toy Story viewing thrown in to spice things up. And after his bedtime, I try to hit the computer so I can play SEIVG. I'll try to watch it soon, but no guarentees.

tesco samoa

January 28th, 2004, 10:01 PM

yea its great.... The Director Cuts came out because they wanted to redo Star Trek 1 as it was to be not how the movie was.... So they then decided that the Special Directors edition should be made for all the movies... Generations is next...

I do think that this is one time that they did not attempt to do a cash grab.

The movies sell for 13.99 CDN Which is nothing... considering what you get on them.

And the effort that went in to remaking the movies for the dvd...

If your into Star Trek then you will enjoy the 6 movies in this series.

Also... the sound is really good...

Atrocities

January 29th, 2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Will do, but let me warn you. Finding the time to watch a movie in my house is probably on the par with the odds of getting hit by lightning or winning the lottery. Unless you're talking about whatever movie my 3 year old wants to see. Which is usually an Ernest film or Kangaroo Jack, with the occassional Toy Story viewing thrown in to spice things up. And after his bedtime, I try to hit the computer so I can play SEIVG. I'll try to watch it soon, but no guarentees. I offer you my most sincere sympothy GB. At least its not Scooby Doo cartoons or the Tella Tubbies. *insert violent shudder*

You know I knew I liked star trek at a very young age. I must have been 4 or 5 when I was introduced to TOS. I thought the ships were just the coolest things ever. And I can remember thinking at that young age, wow, they made a show like this waaaay back in the 60's! I knew the first time I saw it, it was something I would love for life. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Those Star ship models were so fricking cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I never had one of my own until after I was old enought to have a job, but the kid who introduced me to the show had a few I could play with.

My parents were not very supportive of my interest as a child. Of all of there children, I am the one who has enjoyed the most success, and I honestly beleive it is because of my interest in pushing buttons that stemed from watching Star Trek.

tesco samoa

January 29th, 2004, 06:39 PM

i remember watching a clockwork orange at age 7...

I was watching Star Trek for a few years by then... As was every kid in my area... We used to play Federation vs Kligons And we had the kits and all... Then if other kids were playing cowboys and indians we would join forces and attack the evil era of history with pine cones and sticks.... all running and screaming the tos fight music. "dun-da-da-da-da-da-dun-dun-dun"

Good times...

P.S. Fyron here is an other way you can bug me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Captain Kwok

January 29th, 2004, 07:04 PM

I sort of like Star Trek as a show, but I was really in it for the ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ January 29, 2004, 17:09: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

gregebowman

January 29th, 2004, 08:45 PM

I liked it because at the time, it was the ultimate in sci-fi shows. Lost in space became a campy rip-off, The Time Tunnel was mostly a drama about 2 guys drifting through time (my favorite of the Irwin Allen shows, though, but not much in the way of gadgets or space ships), and Land of the Giants wasn't too much different than a sci-fi Version of Gilligan's Island without the comedy. It wouldn't be until the mid-70's before new sci-fi shows came out, with The Six Million Dollar Man and Logan's Run (which for some reason I never really got to see). But I think that the first two seasons of TOS rule, and can only wander that if Roddenberry had been in charge, what the 3rd season might have turned out to be. There might have been a spinoff show starring Harry Mudd, but with the TOS's cancellation, those plans fell through. Also, there were plans for a second TOS series, but I think the success of Star Wars got to the heads of the suits at Paramount, and they thought a movie would be more profitable. Thus, we got ST: The Motion Picture.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 29th, 2004, 09:09 PM

anyplace where i could buy any of these old shows? VHS? DVD?

gregebowman

January 29th, 2004, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
anyplace where i could buy any of these old shows? VHS? DVD? I don't know about Canada, but most video stores here in the states should carry them. As far as the TOS series, they're available as a collection of 2 episode dvds, for a total of 40 volumes. I don't know if they're available in VHS. As far as the rest of the shows, they're available in dvd sets, which is why I don't have any of them right now. Can't afford the $100+ price tag. But they are available at Wal-Mart, so I might eventually put some on lay-a-way.

narf poit chez BOOM

January 30th, 2004, 12:15 AM

thanks.

tesco samoa

January 30th, 2004, 12:31 AM

well those old tos dvd's with the 2 shows will be coming out as season 1 , 2 and 3.... which i cannot wait for....

gregebowman

January 30th, 2004, 02:56 AM

I will encourage my son to get to like sci-fi. It's the wife who doesn't particularly care for it. My parents weren't against it, thank God. They never tried to interfere with my interests. What really got me hooked on sci-fi was when I read War of the Worlds in the 4th grade. I've been hooked ever since. Speaking of Star Trek, even though my memory has become vague over the years, I do remember seeing most of the "Assignment Earth" episode when it first aired. I was probably 4 or 5 at the time. It wasn't until the 70's when the show was syndicated that I became hooked. Now to get my son to like such things. Besides the other movies I mentioned earlier, he also likes The Hulk, and will insist on watching that from time to time. I'd rather watch that (even though it wasn't the greatest superhero movie ever made) than Ernest Scared Stupid or Slamdunk Ernest.

gregebowman

January 30th, 2004, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
]I offer you my most sincere sympothy GB. At least its not Scooby Doo cartoons or the Tella Tubbies. *insert violent shudder*

[/QUOTE]

Well, my son did go through the Tele Tubbies and Barney stage. I do know what you mean. I never have liked Barney, and I was in ignorant bliss about Tele Tubbies until my son started watching them. Curse that daycare! Fortunately, he's over that stage, but now he's into The Wiggles, which is almost as bad. As far as Scooby Doo, my son will watch it, but it's not too important to him as much as the Wiggles are. Another show we watch, if we get home in time, is the Lila & Stitch cartoon. I can take this show over anything else he watches. I kind of like Stitch. But after Stitch comes Recess, which I don't really care for, but it keeps him happy, which keeps me happy. It's just when we want him to go to bed that he gives us trouble.

[ January 30, 2004, 15:33: Message edited by: gregebowman ]