A couple of questions before I buy.

[ttomm46]

Hi

I've tried the demo for SE4gold and it seems pretty cool.....(tried SE3 too but the tutorial takes forever.)

Right now I'm playing Galactic Civ which seems cool....

My questions are :!1, one reviewer claimsit's hard to even finish a game of SE4..Is this true.

Next It's 44.95 which is a pretty fair Investment.Is it worth that much?..Is it easy to learn and immersive?

[Fyron]

It is quite easy to finish a game of SE4. The micromanagement in the end game when you control 3/4 or more of the galaxy can get somewhat high, but it is definitely a lot better than games like MOO2 in that department. The ability to add ships to the construction queues of dozens of planets at once, set automated way points to gather your ships together, fill queues, etc. helps to alleviate much of the worst of the micromanagement. And what deep strategy game does not get heavy in micromanagement in the end game anyways?

SE4 is most certainly worth 45 dollars. It is easy to learn, but you will always find that there is more to learn, as it is a deep game. It is very immersive.

Then, it is one of the most moddable games, ever. There are numerous mods out there that make it like buying a whole bunch of games for 45 dollars. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 19, 2004, 02:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Baron Grazic]

Welcome to the forums ttomm46.

Sorry I haven't played GalCiv, so I can't compair them, but to answer your SE questions.

Yes, it can be hard to finish a game depending on the game settings. If you start a game with 255 systems with 20 players (either human or AI) the game will take a long time to finish, but if you use a small map, then the game is pretty quick. For example, I just finished a Play-by-Web game against Slynky and even though we are on opposite sides of the world we finished in less 10 days and 70 turns.

As for the price, for the amount of hours I've played the game against other humans on PBW (http:\\seiv.pbw.cc) let alone solo its has been the one of the best purchases I've done.

You won't be let down by the game...

[Karibu]

What I am about to say here is only my opinion. However, I have to give you word of warning. I have been playing whole MOO series and a dozen other similar games and Space Empires IV of course. single play in SEIV sucks badly. The AI is not that good (it can fight you only with bonuses), computer opponents seem sterile and you get to war with all of them sooner or later (propably sooner).

However, the reason I hang here and like this game is that it's multiplayer abilities are beyond comparison. There is dozens after dozens mods for the game, which are not even hard to make and no two games are EVER similar. I am talking about SEIV PBW (Space Empires IV, Play by web) where is all the time dozens of games going and you can choose one or several to join in and start playing against humans. If you like multiplaying, SEIV is definately your "best buy".

However, welcome to the forums and form your own opinion of the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

SEIV Play by Web (http://seiv.pbw.cc/)

[Cipher7071]

I'm going to give you the short Version of my opinion on this. SEIV is not for weenies. The learning curve, in terms of getting used to how everything works can be rather steep at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's one of the best games out there.

[Fyron]

Then, considering the SEIV AI doesn't cheat, can't agree that sucks badly. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure it does! It can see what is on your planets (facilities and cargo), so it can try to determine whether it is a good or bad idea to attack. You can give it bonuses to construction and production, which is a big factor in the cheating employed by most (all?) AIs in TBS games. Now, certainly the cheating is not as bad as in some games, but it is still present. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Combat Wombat]

When I first started playing all of the options seemed a little overwhelming but once you get playing it all falls into place and makes sense and if you need any help with getting started just ask and I would say that anyone here would be more than happy to help you.

[rdouglass]

For me, the complexity was a big draw in the beginning - "I just got Physics Level II; now what kinda' goodies will that tech give me?" Learning the details of the game was a lot of fun. The depth that others spoke of is there IMO.

Secondly, is all the great mods being produced by fans (who are almost co-developers in their own rights). As previously stated, never the same game twice. And reguarding the AI; even the "bad" AI was challenging at first. Now even as an experienced player, there are a few AI mods that are still a challenge.

Now some other games I've played, you only have to click "Next Turn" to win.....won't mention which ones.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

IMO, the most productive $45 "gaming" dollars I ever spent....

[PvK]

Originally posted by ttomm46:
...
My questions are :!1, one reviewer claimsit's hard to even finish a game of SE4..Is this true.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Depends on the settings. Finishing a small quadrant with only a couple of AI's at an easier setting than your own skill level doesn't take long, especially if you let the computer resolve most or all of the tactical battles.

A large game can take a very long time, although it's also up to you when to decide it's over. Many players play games up to a point and then decide to start another, but don't seem to see this as a problem.

Next It's 44.95 which is a pretty fair Investment.Is it worth that much?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes it's quite worth it, if it's your kind of game.

...Is it easy to learn and immersive? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Easy to learn - depends on your gaming skills. If you're new to computer games, or not a fan of detailed strategy games, then it's probably pretty complicated and might take some effort to learn. If you are a strategy game fan, then you'll enjoy learning it, and appreciate all the varied stuff in the game, and find it very immersive.

Everyone has their own tastes, though. If you're enjoying the demo a lot, though, it's a good bet you'll really like the game and be happy you bought the full Version.

As for the AI being weak... it can be easy to beat once you've mastered the game and played the AI and learned how to beat it. The difficulty depends on the settings, start position, and mods. There are mods which make it more difficult to beat the AI. And I wonder how many months of play it takes the average new player to get to the point where the AI seems weak - I expect quite a few.

PvK

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Sure it does! It can see what is on your planets (facilities and cargo), so it can try to determine whether it is a good or bad idea to attack.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Honestly, I'm not 100% sure about this point, althougt know that some people reported this behavior. Anyway I have not elements to refute you.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

You can give it bonuses to construction and production,
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure, but it's an option. In games like Moo, Moo2 and Pax Imperia, the AI ALWAYS knew where my fleet were placed... and then, attacking the unprotected planets.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

which is a big factor in the cheating employed by most (all?) AIs in TBS games.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agree here.

In my previous post, forget to said that the AI is only competitive for experienced players, in small galaxies.

Finally, an element to support my point that the AI can offer a fight: a guy lost a KOTH game because the AI killed him.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Karibu:
single play in SEIV sucks badly. The AI is not that good (it can fight you only with bonuses)
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know that you wrote it's only your opinion, but can't avoid to write my own opinion here, ok? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Don't think the SEIV AI sucks badly!!!

For example, I think the AI of Moo3 sucks badly because can't give you a fight even with hard bonuses. Moo and Moo2 (I loved those games) AI's sucks badly if you consider that the AI cheat a lot.

Then, considering the SEIV AI doesn't cheat, can't agree that sucks badly.
Sure, it's not Deep Blue but using the TDM Modpack and AI bonuses, think still can give you a fight.
I consider myself an experienced SEIV player, and stil I play (and sometimes lose)games against the AI.

Originally posted by Karibu:

and you get to war with all of them sooner or later (propably sooner).
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agree here with you.

Also, I agree that the multiplayer makes this game GREAT.

About the TTomm46 questions: just want to say that after more of 2 years playing SEIV, it's the game with the best money spent / time playing ratio! (Second should be Moo2).

I like Galactic Civilizacions and this game has a better AI than SEIV. Interesting, but can't remember the Last time I've played this game (maybe 4 months!) but still I'm playing SEIV...
Anyway, I think GC it's a good game but less deep than SEIV.

[ttomm46]

Hi

They just lowered the price today so i'm going for it....

completed the tutorial which i couldn't do with the SE3 demo.....Just too much reading.

Thanks

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by ttomm46:
They just lowered the price today so i'm going for it....<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's great. I know you won't regret it!

[gregebowman]

As some probably have deferred from some of my Posts, I'm a cheapskate. If it's over probably $20, then I will wait for the price to come down. But I got so frustrated over the demo, that I did pay the $45 + the postage, and I haven't regretted a penny of that yet. This is a great game, and so moddable, that if you ever finish one game, there's about a dozen mods to try after that. And some of these mods get constantly updated. Also, this forum is so good at helping you understand the game. If I had a question, all I had to do was post it, and you'll get a reply probably in the same day. So I'm glad you're buying this game.