OT - What was your first TBS/War game?

[Voidhawk]

Holy crow! I made a topic! I'm a posting madman! Somebody stop me before I hurt myself!

Ok all you old fuddy duds out there, time to reminisce a little. Oh, and of course young whippersnappers are encouraged to participate too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What was the very first strategy or war game you found yourself hopelessly addicted to? I'm talking strictly electronic gaming here, on any platform. I'm sure many of us started on the tabletop (myself included), but those don't count!

My first taste of gaming crack was a little gem by SSI called Sixgun Shootout for the Commodore 64. In a nutshell, it was a tactical squad-level game sort of like X-Com, only with cowboys and indians instead of marines and aliens. There were a bunch of different scenarios to play, many of them based on actual events from that time period in American history. Man, there was nothing like taking on the Clanton gang at the OK Corral with the Earps and Doc Holliday or trading shots as Blondie from behind an overturned saloon table with Angel Eyes from The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. You could also design your own custom cowboy, assign his attributes, weapon skills (lots of weapons to choose from), and of course label him with a suitably notorious nickname of your choosing. If someone ever re-made this game, I'd fall to my knees and commence to worship said someone.

I enjoyed playing MULE before I discovered Sixgun, but Sixgun was the one that really sucked me into the TBS genre. Mostly because I've always been an avid fan of American wild west lore, I imagine. I shudder to think of the countless hours I dumped into that game.

So, now it's your turn. You don't have to necessarily put the first strategy game you ever played, I'm looking for the first one that really hooked you! The one that is at least partly to blame for your SEIV addiction today. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Carriers at War for the C64
Ultima

I also enjoyed that weastern shoot out game.

How about Gettysburg, ROTK their are so many...

[ January 24, 2004, 16:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

The first one I ever owned was probably Colonization. I do not recall the first I played, but it would be one of Colonization, Ascendency or Civilization II, at a friend's or cousin's house.

[capnq]

Reach for the Stars, 3rd Edition, on an Amiga 500.

[ January 24, 2004, 17:48: Message edited by: capnq ]

[Captain Kwok]

Empire was my first TBS.

[Geckomlis]

Empire.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i think the one i first played was Centurion: Defender of rome on an Amiga 500. it was also the first strategy game where i just kept on playing it. i loved going into the arena, fighting a big cat, getting my guy behind his sheild and letting the big cat take futile wacks while the crowds approval just kept on going up and up an up before i let loose. great way to keep rome happy.

second one that got me was a little shareware space game with 26 planets, all letters, called Conquest, also for the A500. it had some deep tactics for that time. and i suppose it's more to blame for my playing SE then Centurion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Loser]

Empire, on an XT (late on the scene for Empire, of course).

[Fyron]

You people are old. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Atrocities]

They make TB war games? OMG when did this start?

(Rebellion, BOTF)

[mac5732]

My lst one was Tank on the old atari plug in system for a TV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif also Pong, sigh, as for actual war game, War in Russia by SSI for the Atari, followed by many more for the atari and then C-64

just some ideas Mac

[Geckomlis]

About the same time I was addicted to Empire:
Anacreon Reconstruction
http://www.neurohack.com/anacreon/

A nifty little, highly detailed, shareware Space warfare strategy 4X game.

[AMF]

Lords of the Earth. Buddy of mine, Tom Harlan, started it when we were in high school, it was the first Play-by-mail - we used paper! - that I got really sucked into. And epic...Almost twenty years later, the same game is going strong, still run by Tom...and there are lots of other campaigns....see:

http://www.throneworld.com/lords/index.jsp

Once that got me, it was all downhill, and here I am...

[BadAxe]

The Universal Military Simulator on the Atari ST. I especially enjoyed the ancient battles.

[solops]

SSI's North Atlantic '86 on an Apple IIe in 1983....hours and hours of sweating waves of AS-6s.

[General Woundwort]

I forget the name of the program, but there was a TBS wargame construction kit for the Commodore 64 (anybody remember THOSE things...?).

[Chronon]

I've played board games for quite some time, but came to the computer later in life. Civilization (the first one) was the first TBS computer game to really draw me in. I played Civ style games almost exclusively for years (Civ II, SMAC, MoO, MoO2), and really only came to SEIV after my disappointment with Civ III.

[Fyron]

How is MOO a Civ style game? It seems to be more the same style as SEIV than it is the same style as Civ.

[Voidhawk]

Originally posted by General Woundwort:
I forget the name of the program, but there was a TBS wargame construction kit for the Commodore 64 (anybody remember THOSE things...?). <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds like SSI's Wargame Construction Set. I think I must have just about everything SSI ever put out for the C64/128 in the '80s. Still have all my 5 1/4" floppies too.

[PvK]

First? Probably Trek, on mainframe computers. Oh no! My photon torpedoes caused a stellar nova chain reaction again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

PvK

[Taz-in-Space]

First one? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Hmmm, I think it was: Reach for the stars
for the Apple II+ A primitive (by SE4 standards) Space 4X game. Anyone remember this???

(Taz feeling REALLY old now... must rest!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[David E. Gervais]

Well, I guess I qualify as an old fuddleduddy, so here's my short list..

In the beginning... (first memories)

RPG: Ultima 4
Space: Omnitrends Universe 2
Adventure: Empire of the overmind
Strategy: Eastern Front
Puzzle: Pipedreams
Action: Star Raiders

Let there be light...

RPG: Bards Tale
Space: Starflight 2
Adventure: King's Quest
Strategy: Empire
Puzzle: Tetris
Action: Pac Man

The dawn of fun...

RPG: Lands of Lore
Space: Sundog: The Frozen Legacy
Adventure: Sam and Max
Strategy: Dune 2
Puzzle: Shanghai
Action: Load Runner

within a famous Hall...

RPG: Betrayal at Krondor
Space: Space Empires 4
Adventure: Deathgate
Strategy: Heroes of Might & Magic
Puzzle: Chips Challenge
Action: Doom

and Last but not least, a peek in the trash can...

RPG: Betrayal at Antara
Space: Outpost
Adventure: King's Quest 2
Strategy: Emperor of the Fading Suns
Puzzle: Tetris (done to death)
Action: Solid Ice Hockey

Aaah, not that was fun, and it is just the tip of the iceberg.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Gryphin]

In this order:
Empire (on XT with CGA Graphics)
Cive I
***
Civ II
Empire Deluxe
Star Emmpires III
***
Was playing ED and SE III 20 to 30 hours a week when they became 5X games. (eXwife).

Star Empires IV
and now
Empire Deluxe Internet Edition
www.killerbeesoftware.com (http://www.killerbeesoftware.com)
I now play this as much as 30 hours a week. Being able to mod the graphics, sounds, and adjust the number of pixles per square makes it a very good game for my vision. Bonus! I get replys to my questions directly from the programer withing 24 hours.
My next addiction will be
Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition which hopeful will be out this summer.

[ January 26, 2004, 11:40: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

maybe my first one was civ 1...at least, my early strategy on my first game, which, for some reason, i can still remember, was ignorant enough for it to have been my first game. i built city's right beside each other.

then there was an alpha-numeric display star trek shareware adventure game that had strategy elements...

anyone get the feeling i can't really remember?

[Phoenix-D]

Perfect General 2, probably.

[Wardad]

Cyber Empires by SSI for PC.

I think it went by other names on other systems. Maybe Steel Empires?

[RabidFan]

I take it the titles are restricted to computer games...?

If so, I'm an Atari ST man...(or my dad was), so I would say

Breach
or
Empire

[Voidhawk]

Ahh! Breach! Wasn't that the Omnitrends game that was part of their "Interlocking Game System" or something? It was like a series of games that worked together (or separately, if you didn't have them all). If it's the same one I remember, Breach worked with the game called Rules of Engagement. You could disable and board enemy ships in Rules, and the game would automatically switch to Breach if you had it installed so you could carry out tactical squad maneuvers inside the enemy ship. WAY cool.

I could almost swear I used to play that on my old 386 PC, though. I might be thinking of one of the sequels...

edit: Yeah, I just looked it up on Underdogs. Rules of Engagement 2 and Breach 3 are the ones I was thinking of. Man, they just don't make 'em like that anymore.

[ January 26, 2004, 18:39: Message edited by: Voidhawk ]

[Puke]

Originally posted by Voidhawk:
Ahh! Breach! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh. My. God. I LOVED that game! I played Breach 1 and Breach 3 to DEATH! I had totally forgotten about it, until now. No, they dont make them like that anymore, XCOM came close, but just wasnt the same. I liked the variety of objectives available, such as insert or extract, hold objectives, retrieve items, etc.

I had NO IDEA that it integrated with a larger scale game. I feel robbed that I didnt get to play it that way.

That is one of the earliest and best TB wargames I have played, and probably the best squad based shooter. During the same era, I was playing a 4x space game called Celestial Ceasars on the ST. Prior to that, there was MULE on the Atari 400 (upgraded to 8K!), and that was probably the first. unless you want to count Whumpus Hunter, which loaded off a tape.

So many great old games, that would be so easy to recreate and expand on. So much effort wasted on crap that is expected to have market appeal.

[Puke]

ohmygod!

Did some searching on the web, and found some info on Breach 1, 2, 3 and ROE 1 and 2. Looks like I did play alot of Breach 2, in addition to 1 and 3 - just had forgotten about it!

but thats not the coolest thing. the coolest thing, as that all the above games, and many other very cool games (many of the ones listed in the Posts below) are available as abandonware. www.the-underdogs.com (http://www.the-underdogs.com)

they have a fully integrated Linked ROE2+Breach 2+Breach 3 with IGS as an 11 meg download. They have STARFLEET and STARFLEET 2, and some differently named STARFLEET 3ish sequel that I had never heard of! SF1 and 2 were some of the best capital ship sims EVER!

[ January 27, 2004, 05:53: Message edited by: Puke ]

[rdouglass]

Originally posted by Taz-in-Space:
First one? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Hmmm, I think it was: Reach for the stars
for the Apple II+ A primitive (by SE4 standards) Space 4X game. Anyone remember this???

(Taz feeling REALLY old now... must rest!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That was one of my fav's as well, but I remember playing it on a Mac Plus in '86. I didn't know they made it for the II. However I do remember AutoDuel for the II+, now that was one of my all-time greatest games for eating up all my time. Anyone remember AutoDuel? Taz?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

a note, P, technically abandonware's illegal.

[Puke]

no, techically its a large grey area of debate. copyrights do expire, and must be actively defended to cary any weight. some games that are advertised as abandonware are actually not, as they are still available commercially in compilations and collections - and more recently in packages that come with emulators and arcade consoles.

there is no sweeping illegality of abandonware, as it depends on each individual case. do some research into copyright law, or just read the press about it.

Most abandonware sites (including the one referenced) remove links to games that are commercially available, and instead provide information regarding where the game can be purchassed. They are, in fact, good citizens with a healthy respect for the law and intelectual property rights. please refrain from making unfounded acusations of theviery, without knowledge of the facts.

This is not to say that a previously abandoned piece of software can not become commercial again, if someone acquires the publishing rights and decides to sell it. It is then the responsibility of the copyright holder to notify people whom are distributing the software without authorization - in which case abandonware sites will generally cease distribution of that particular piece of software, and instead link to where it can be purchased.

For this reason, it is a truely bothersome hassel to operate an abandonware site, with the constantly shifting availablility of some titles, and the fluctuating interest / disintrest of the current copyright holders. It is truely a commendable effort to put up with all that crap, for seemingly no profit to themselves. We're lucky someone is willing to do it, or these great titles would be lost.

[Gryphin]

Puke, could you please edit your post to shorten the string with "ohmygod". It is making it hard for others to read it because they need to scroll left to right.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

P, it was underdogs itself which posted a notice saying abandonware is illegal. i certainly do not say that a person who download's abandonware is a horrible person; it is only technically illegal as someone does hold the copyright but no damage is done to them except on the off-chance they decide to sell it again. i don't see how not selling a product looses the company the copyright.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
P, it was underdogs itself which posted a notice saying abandonware is illegal.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Abandonware is not illegal; circulating old titles and using the term abandonware as an excuse to circulate such old titles even when companies that own such unabandoned-wares still sell them is illegal.

A game is classified as an abandonware when the game becomes abandoned, hence the term, for various reasons, and it becomes no-one's property.

When it becomes nobody's property, it should free to distribute, and it does become free to distribute, as if you were handing out pieces of garbage.

As such, The-Underdogs only post download links to games that are out of stock; It does not offer free downloads of, let's say, Simcity 2000 since it is still sold by Maxis, and is still owned by Electronic arts.

So it is illogical to call true abandonware illegal.

Furthermore, I'd like to see where you got your statement from Narf; I consider myself a The-underdogs regular, and I have never seen such a statement made by the website.

Edit: And on topic: The first war game I fell in love with was, and still is, SE4.

[ January 26, 2004, 22:52: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

i can't remember, it was years ago.

so, again, what would constitute abandonware and how would that void the copyright?

[TerranC]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
what would constitute abandonware and how would that void the copyright? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">- Discontinued Games - for various reasons, but mostly because of failed sales expectations

- Disowned Games - also for various reasons, but mostly because of Company takeovers, bankrupcy, etc.

- Games which their Copyrights have expired and were not renewed by their companies of ownership

- Games released into the public (this one's in a grey area)

- Games without copyright whatsoever

And so on, and so on, IMHO.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, this page was certainly interesting: http://www.the-underdogs.org/scratch.php

but it's no longer my turn on the computer.

thanks.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

what about that 'failure to enforce any portion of this agreement does not constitute a waiver of any portion of this agreement' etc. part of eula's?

[Fyron]

Like most of the EULA, it is rubbish and not really enforceable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

does that mean it's illegal, though? that part of the eula?

[ January 27, 2004, 05:26: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Puke]

not to completely derail the topic, but if there is no longer a company arround to be the second party in the EULA, then its not really a contract. you cant have a contract between yourself and nobody. In addition, EULAs have fallen down in court several times. They tend to be about as binding as the tags you're not supposed to cut off your mattress. Its copyright law that is enforceable, not the EULA.

As a case-in-point related to the general discussion, condider the works of HP Lovecraft. for a long time, the copyrights had expired and although compilations were published - the works were in the public domain. you could download them all for free, over the web (in several places). Now, the rights to the estate are being defended again, the copyrights have been renewed, and it is no longer legal to freely distribute the literature. Granted, literature falls under slightly different laws then software (it is currently still impossible to claim ownership of the works of Shakespear or Tennyson or somebody) but the concept is similar.

Back on topic, I had totally forgotten about Blance of Power. I lost countless hours to that game, in fierce two player hotseat matches.

Speaking of hotseat, anyone remember RoboWars? God that was a great game! tactical combat controlling squads of robots, but simultanious resolution. Combat happened real time, and you would break it up to give orders. You could set it for 1 second to 60 seconds turns, so you would pile up a bunch of orders like "move HERE, crouch low, look NORTH, scan for 2 seconds (and engage enemies), stand up, move THERE, look WEST, stand TALL (to fire from behind large cover), scan for 10 seconds (and engage targets).

It was great. depending on how long you configured turns to be, you had more or less granularity of controll over combat. You could fire at point targets or spots on the ground with rockets or grenades, so that it might be possible to take out robots behind cover, or create distractions. Covering fire and bounding overwatch was very important. you could have bots firing at suspected enemy locations to draw attention from another bot that you were going to have run out from cover. the leg elevation of your Bots was very important not only for hiding behind and looking over cover, but your speed depended on how long your legs were at the moment. It also obviously affected how hard you were to hit - and since rockets and grenades took time to fly through the air and detonate (and combat resolution was realtime, after you gave your orders for the turn), it was very hard to hit a running bot without guns. It was also a good idea to run slightly PAST something you wanted to take cover behind, and then move back, just in case some splash damage from a missile was on the way.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

ok, so i can download abandonware? weee!

(that's good, i already grabbed some before you posted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[Wardad]

Originally posted by PvK:
First? Probably Trek, on mainframe computers. Oh no! My photon torpedoes caused a stellar nova chain reaction again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

PvK <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OMG, your right!
I played Star Trek, written in basic, on the offline training IC test system. The IBM PC wasn't born yet.

[Puke]

Originally posted by Gryphin:
"Balence of Power" by Chris Crawford,
That was great even solo. I did find a way to wind everytime.
Do Nothing<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Really? It was actually a bit more difficult in my Version on the Atari ST (i think there were at least three iterations of the game). You actually had to have both sides withdraw all of their influence from smaller countries, stop funding other governments or insurgents, and basically mind your own business.

I was once able to extend my influence across the entire globe, and didnt win (you know how hard that is?!) and so in frustration I started up a multiplayer game against myself to figure out what the hell the victory conditions were. Dominating with one power while withdrawing with the other power did not end the game. you had to withdraw all forces and funding on both sides.

There was no victory screen, either. It simply disabled the end-turn function, and other commands. You could still browse around the globe and look at all the screens, you just could not give orders or advance the clock. Even without a fanfair ending, that was probably the best and most ominous end game that I have ever seen. certainly one of the most memorable. While Syndicate's lack of a victory screen was the most disapointing ending to one of the best games ever, I think the non-ending to BOP was one of the greatest.

The there is a defeat screen if you initiate a nuclear war, but no screen if you avoid one. you simply disarm, and the world goes about its business. nothing to see, move along. You're not a superpower with your claws in everything anymore - just another nation, albiet a large one.

now if you tell me your Version had an endgame screen.. well..

[Puke]

Anyone remember a text based adventure game, where you played an AI? you were a large computer with artificial inteligence.

You could look around the laboratory that you were in, by interfacing with the cameras and microphones, and spy on doctors and technicians and things. that was about half the game

the other half, was inside a simulation that was being run on you. you (the AI) were a simulated man, in an artificial world. you interact with the world and go about your daily business, as the events develop and bad things start to happen to you and your family.

The goal of the game, was to decipher the purpose of the simulation, and to figure out how it related to events in the real world. It was probably one of the best text adventures ever written, but I cant think of the name of it. I didnt finish it, so I cant tell you how it ends.

Any help? Anyone remember this one?

[Phoenix-D]

I think that was A Mind Forever Voyaging.

[Gryphin]

Originaly Posted by Puke:
Really? It was actually a bit more difficult in my Version on the Atari ST (i think there were at least three iterations of the game). You actually had to have both sides withdraw all of their influence from smaller countries, stop funding other governments or insurgents, and basically mind your own business. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes that was harder. I just sat their and hit End Turn (or what ever it was) and would win by a small margin. I would love to see someone update it.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Wardad:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by PvK:
First? Probably Trek, on mainframe computers. Oh no! My photon torpedoes caused a stellar nova chain reaction again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

PvK <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OMG, your right!
I played Star Trek, written in basic, on the offline training IC test system. The IBM PC wasn't born yet. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, it's a pretty interesting game, too, particularly the later Versions where people had modded in a lot of additional weirdness that could be discovered. Lose the Enterprise but escape, and get to take over the obsolete ship USS Faerie Queen - I remember doing that on purpose, to see what it was like. Or, push the damaged warp engines too far, enter a time warp and get sent back in time to an old game position the game secretly had saved for that purpose. Pretty clever. Oh no - the Klingon super command ship has used its long-range tractor beam to pull me across the galaxy into its sector... Tholians... Romulans...

PvK

[Paul1980au]

Interesting a game that learns how you play and presents a bigger challange the more games you play - could that be put into SEIV i wonder or SE5

[Gryphin]

Puke, Thanks for the reminder. I forgot BOP. I iused to get very worked up and pissed at the Soviets.
"Balence of Power" by Chris Crawford,
That was great even solo. I did find a way to wind everytime.
Do Nothing
For those who don't know the game it was a cold war simulation. You could send Troops, Money, and I think Food. The other side could object. There are four exchanges. You can vary how strongly you word them. You score popularity points for each succesful exchange.
If no one backs down then you both lose as you blow up the world.
I belive Henry Kissenger gave the game high marks (as he did for the Avalon Hill board game Version of Civilisation. He required his classes at Harvard to play Civilazation.

[ January 27, 2004, 12:02: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

[Puke]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
I think that was A Mind Forever Voyaging. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, it was! Thank you, sir!

[Kamog]

I played that old Star Trek game, too, but it was on the Commodore 64. That was a fun game. The program was written in BASIC. You could open the program and edit it if you wanted.

One time I shot a photon torpedo at a star base to see what would happen. The base was destroyed, and I got a message saying I was going to be court martialed. Another time, I had destroyed all the Klingon ships except for one, and I had no energy or torpedoes left, so I used the self-destruct to blow up the quadrant. Unfortunately, somehow the Klingons still won.

[freduk]

Dune II, although I doubt this is the tactical level that is meant in this topic.
Then, Civilization: call to power.
Yep, I didnt have a computer for 5 years or so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[dmm]

Hey everyone! Looooooong time, no see!

My first TBS was a game on Intelivision that was a lot like Civilization. Anyone else remember that?

[Loser]

Originally posted by dmm:
Hey everyone! Looooooong time, no see!

My first TBS was a game on Intelivision that was a lot like Civilization. Anyone else remember that? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Utopia?

[Kamog]

Yeah! Utopia! That was a nice game. It was a two-player game, and each player got an island. You build things on your island, like factories, schools, fortresses, hospitals, fields, houses, and so on. Some buildings bring you money while others keep the population happy. When your people get unhappy, rebels appear and destroy stuff. You also build fishing boats to catch fish and PT boats to protect your fishing boats from pirates and to sink the other player's fishing boat. Every so often a storm comes by and randomly zaps something.

You can download a free PC Version of some of the old Intellivision games, including Utopia, from the Intellivision Lives web site. Some of the other nice games you can get here are Astrosmash and Night Stalker. Ahh, I still remember well those happy days, about 20 years ago, when I used to visit my friend's house and we would play those games together on his Intellivision... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

http://www.intellivisionlives.com/download.shtml

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by TerranC:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
what would constitute abandonware and how would that void the copyright? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">- Discontinued Games - for various reasons, but mostly because of failed sales expectations
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ok, it's just that one i have a problem with. how would that void the copyright?

[Puke]

it doesn't. he was mistaken. clasic games are often discontinued between printings, to build up a demand before releasing them on some collection or other. the simple fact that something is discontinued does not make it abandoned.

it is when the copyright holder decides that it is not worth their bother to defend their copyright, that it is fair game. there is no notice that this is occuring, you just have to be on top of it. and if you're wrong, they either ask you to stop or sue you. its a very grey area.

generally, if its a truely old game and not Last years release, they probably wont sue you unless you dont respond to their requests to cease and desist. if you were distribuing Last months game, i dont think they would bother asking before sending out the hounds.

Anyone remember Starglider 2? now there was a space sim that had it all. how many other space games, ever, let you fly in space, enter atmospheres, fly into underground bunkers, collect cargo and trade goods, upgrade your gear... It was like a fast paced, action packed, easy to play, dumbed down, highly polished, Elite - with planetary and underground missions. Sort of Elite meets Descent 3.

Or how about an RPG called Phantasy? I only played Phantasy III, but man it was good. higly detailed sprain, break, and severing of limbs and body sections. It was always hard for me to keep a party together until the healer got high enough level to restore missing limbs. I was usually hanging on by bits and pieces until I had access to that spell, but it was all downhill after that. It had another cool feature: if your whole party died, but certain or all party members behaved in a badass enough fashion, there was a chance that a demon of the abyss would judge them worth of reincarnation, and send them back as a spectral asskicker. They come back as high level, but dont advance further. So you can use them to train up a powerfull party, and then switch them out with regular guys that can keep advancing, once they catch up.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Puke:
it doesn't. he was mistaken. clasic games are often discontinued between printings, to build up a demand before releasing them on some collection or other. the simple fact that something is discontinued does not make it abandoned.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think we're using different sense of the word, here. When I say discontinued, I mean finished. As in the game company stops printing the game and won't do so in the future.

[dmm]

Originally posted by Kamog:
Yeah! Utopia! That was a nice game. It was a two-player game, and ....<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hey, thanks for the info! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Kamog]

Another game I spent a lot of time playing is Risk. Just like the board game, but on the computer. At school, when we got bored of studying, we used to all sit at a Macintosh, three or four of us, and play that game. It's a rather simple turn-based game of world conquest where each player starts out with a number of territories on the earth and you use your armies to try to take over the entire world. After playing that game for a couple of months, everybody knew all the tricks and winning became more of a luck-based thing than one of skill.