Known Bugs

[Fyron]

Found a bug in SE4? Post it here!

1) In a simultaneous movement game, if you send out Messages at the beginning of the turn, sometimes the Messages will disappear in the other orders sent in when the turn is processed. Always send your Messages at the end of the turn!

[Roanon]

In simultaneous movement games, a ship with full cargo ordered to load cargo will stop executing the orders after the load command.

In strategic combat, ship strategies will sometimes be completely ignored (a lone ship with "do not fire on planets" or "don't get hurt" can happen to fly to the corner for the first combat turn, then mysteriously turn around and glass a planet or get shot down by the WPs).

In simultaneous games, movement log sometimes does not work, error message: "... not valid for the current game date". It never works after "end turn" when reloading the game.

[Puke]

ramming planets in strategic combat does not work.

the small graviton beam requires tractor / repulsor tech, instead of graviton tech as it should. this has been reported to MM.

supply sharing between fighter Groups and a fleet is bugged. I think this is being patched.

[QBrigid]

Speed up movement non-simultaneous movement games, it is so boring pointing a ship or fleet at a location and then waiting, waiting, waiting, when I also want to other things.
When a game gets over 500 ships to move it can take a very long time to play your turn in non-simultaneous movement games.

Can you load more on a ship that has full cargo in non-simultaneous movement?

[ January 27, 2004, 09:14: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Found a bug in SE4? Post it here!

Always send your Messages at the end of the turn! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the tip Fyron.
Can anyone confirm what Fyron is Stating.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Puke:
ramming planets in strategic combat does not work.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So that's what's been jacked in my Furball V strategy!

Back to the mountain.

[Roanon]

No, you cannot load more onto a ship with full cargo in non-sim games, but it should not stop executing all orders thereafter and just ignore the load order instead.
And yes, I can confirm Fyron's tip - with my limited experience. In larger games - like NGC3 - it is almost certain that a trade does not work if the confirm message is written at the start of the turn. I has not failed yet when writing the message as Last action.

[Slick]

Great idea, Fyron. Maybe this list should be sent to MM. For my listed bugs, I have done that. Also, in the spirit of this thread, I would suggest that we just list things we think are bugs. Discussion or argument should be taken elsewhere.

These all apply to simultaneous games. They may also apply to turn-based, but it has been a long time since I played turn-based so I am not sure.

Fighters won't resupply at a Resupply Depot if the RD is on a moon.

Facility "tags" won't show up on the system view if the facility is on a moon.

(IMO this is a bug) Temporal Spaceyards don't upgrade from standard ones. I know it is easy to mod, but this should be fixed since setting up multiplayer games should not require a mod for this.

Retrofits that fail in simultaneous games give the same "Vehicle Retrofit" message log on the left pane as a successful retrofit. You have to click on it and read the center pane to find out if it was successful or not.

Fighters fleeted with ships cause the fleet to quickly lose its supplies (I think this was introduced in the v1.84 patch) [edit: whoops, already reported by Puke]

If you have more than one atmosphere breathing type of population, the transport minister will take will actually harm your empire by taking wrong-breathing population to planets. When he does this, the planet will become domed. Not that I use ministers.

"divide points evenly" causes you to lose points (research and intel) when you complete a project. Excess points are not given to other projects.

Captured ship designs from intel projects or Long Range Scanners are not added to your list of known enemy designs.

Fleet Experience is not calculated as expected (see Fleet Experience thread)

Can't retrieve drones (might be intentional, but I think it is a bug)

Warheads on drones that are rammed do not damage the ramming ship (other than the contribution to overall mass of the drone).

I'll add more later.

Slick.

[ January 27, 2004, 14:49: Message edited by: Slick ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Slick:
Great idea, Fyron. Maybe this list should be sent to MM. For my listed bugs, I have done that. Also, in the spirit of this thread, I would suggest that we just list things we think are bugs. Discussion or argument should be taken elsewhere.

These all apply to simultaneous games. They may also apply to turn-based <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed.

[Baron Munchausen]

Yes, it is intentional that drones cannot be recovered. This makes them impossible for the AI to use properly, of course. It always launches ALL drones in combat. It would be nice if we had an exception allowing drones launched in tactical combat to be recovered like fighters. Then AI races could use drones effectively.

[dogscoff]

Fighters destroyed in combat are sometimes listed as "taken" in the combat reports. (Playing solo Proportions, simultaneous.)

This may or may not correspond to my having captured a carrier in combat using psychic tech- even though all fighters had been launched by the time I took the carrier.

Sorry it's a bit vague.

[Slick]

Drones temporarily fleeted using shift-click will warp thru a warp point one at a time. Thus it is impossible to try to overwhelm warp point defenses with a mass of drones.

Slick.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Fighters destroyed in combat are sometimes listed as "taken" in the combat reports. (Playing solo Proportions, simultaneous.)

This may or may not correspond to my having captured a carrier in combat using psychic tech- even though all fighters had been launched by the time I took the carrier.

Sorry it's a bit vague. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It happens in stock, and in simultaneous, and as far as I know has nothing to do with capturing anything. I have seen it when no capture ships or AS ships are present in the battle. I believe it happens with all units.

[ January 27, 2004, 16:01: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Slick:
Captured ship designs from intel projects or Long Range Scanners are not added to your list of known enemy designs.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1.86:
Fixed - In Simultaneous games, scanned enemy ship designs would not be saved.

[Slick]

Originally posted by Asmala:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slick:
Captured ship designs from intel projects or Long Range Scanners are not added to your list of known enemy designs.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1.86:
Fixed - In Simultaneous games, scanned enemy ship designs would not be saved. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I saw that. I mentioned the bug because the history entry implies that it is fixed for LRS, but I'm not sure about intel blueprints.

Slick.

[Grandpa Kim]

An attempt to capture an enemy planet with an allied planet in the same sector may result in capture of the allied planet if the enemy planet is destroyed.

Fighters fleeted together do not share supplies.

Formations that do not exist on the computer (in the correct mod folder, of course) that is running the turn will be treated as "no formation" even if those formations are integrated into your empire file.

[rextorres]

I don't know if this is intentional, but, I consider machine gun storm creation to be a bug or at the least an exploit.

If you create a storm and set the ship to "repeat orders" it will create up to 204 storms in one spot in one turn to the limit of its supply.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:
Formations that do not exist on the computer (in the correct mod folder, of course) that is running the turn will be treated as "no formation" even if those formations are integrated into your empire file. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unfortunately, the only part of formations that are stored in the empire file are the names, not the actual ship placements. There is no integration of formations into the empire file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[DavidG]

2) Ships in a fleet with 'Don't hurt me orders' do not obey the fleet orders but revert back to their class orders.

(What no one else wanted to follow Fyrons numbering? )

[ January 27, 2004, 20:28: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[PvK]

Originally posted by rextorres:
I don't know if this is intentional, but, I consider machine gun storm creation to be a bug or at the least an exploit.

If you create a storm and set the ship to "repeat orders" it will create up to 204 storms in one spot in one turn to the limit of its supply. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OMG! That's hilarious! BUG!

PvK

[Asmala]

Originally posted by PvK:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by rextorres:
I don't know if this is intentional, but, I consider machine gun storm creation to be a bug or at the least an exploit.

If you create a storm and set the ship to "repeat orders" it will create up to 204 storms in one spot in one turn to the limit of its supply. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OMG! That's hilarious! BUG!

PvK </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe hilarious, but annoying too if your enemy has over 200 storms over every planet and sun. (Btw, it's 252 storms you can create in one turn if you don't move. Yes, a very important fact http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[Asmala]

If enemy sweeps a minefield entirely you get no log message about it.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by Asmala:
If enemy sweeps a minefield entirely you get no log message about it. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I also hate this.

[Paul1980au]

Well there is another bug for MM to fix. If a enemy completley clears all mines then it should tell us so.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Roanon:
No, you cannot load more onto a ship with full cargo in non-sim games, but it should not stop executing all orders thereafter and just ignore the load order instead.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It would be us that asked the ship to load the Cargo that can not fit and if the ship can not I would rather it ask again the next turn. If I error, it may be perfered the ship not continue with the incomplete orders.

However, in non-simu games. Cargo as Oleg pointed out; needs fixing or will be fixed in the next upgrade.

[ January 27, 2004, 13:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Unfortunately, the only part of formations that are stored in the empire file are the names, not the actual ship placements. There is no integration of formations into the empire file.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This would be a good idea for SE:V though!

[Baron Munchausen]

That's interesting. It does still inform you that mothballing cannot work if you have any other cargo, doesn't it? If so, I wonder what is different about population?

(Say, wouldn't it be nice to have dedicated 'population quarters' back from SE III instad of just loading your population up like cargo? Then you'd have to build dedicated population transports again. It could even be a settable 'option' so people that like the current arrangement could keep it.)

[ January 28, 2004, 17:33: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

[oleg]

Known Bugs ? Taera ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Slynky]

When you try to mothball ships with population on board, the mothball fails but you receive no error message about it. Unless you specifically go check, you never know it didn't work.

[Kamog]

If you have a transport ship containing more than one type of alien population, then if you go into the ships/units screen and click the 'cargo' button to show the contents, the cargo list shows the same number for each type of population, even though you may have different numbers of each alien type on board.

In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything.

[Fyron]

In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you click on the Construction Queue column header to sort it and then click on Ships, it changes the order that the queues are in, while maintaining the Construction Queue sort by name feature. There does not seem to be any rhyme or reason to it, but it does it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Kamog]

In tactical combat, if a ship outside the current viewing area fires a Direct Fire weapon at a ship in the viewing area, you see the explosion from the hit, but it doesn't display the beam.

[Kamog]

The same thing happens in the other direction, too. In tactical combat, if your ship fires a direct fire weapon at an enemy ship outside of view, then the game doesn't display the shot being fired.

Not really a bug, but an annoying occurance: If you use a saved fill queue to construct things on a planet, and there aren't enough facility slots available to take the list, then the warning message, "There is limit of X facilities on this planet" appears, but the message appears multiple times if your fill queue is over the limit by many items. So if you have a 200-item fill queue for a sphere world and by mistake, try to add it to a small planet, you'll see the warning message 200 times, and you have to click OK that many times to make the warning go away.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Roanon:
In simultaneous games, movement log sometimes does not work, error message: "... not valid for the current game date". It never works after "end turn" when reloading the game. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think in order to work movement log needs the previous turn in the Temp folder. When you press the end turn the old turn in Temp folder is replaced by the current turn so the movement log won't work if you load the same turn again.

[Roanon]

Yes, unpacking the previous turn AND pressing "End Turn" helps. Silly. Thanks for the info, maybe something for the FAQ?

[Paul1980au]

You know some minor bugs i hope MM is on board and fixing them for Version 1.89 - once it gets to v2 i hope that he keep realising upgrades and patch fixes (perhaps he can implement some improvements at v2 or add on pack ?)

[Fyron]

As far as I understand it, there is only going to be one more SE4 patch, and then it is work on SE5.

[Captain Kwok]

I'm looking forward to moving onto SE5. I kind of think of this Last patch as a holdover for the next year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Asmala]

When launching missiles the range is calculated to the nearest planet square. However, missiles have to travel to the upper-left corner of the four central squares. Thus if ships stay at maximum range they do no harm to the planet no matter how much they fire. This bug also applies to direct fire weapons so they can have range penalty -100% when firing at range 8.

Many of the happiness modifiers don't work in simultaneous game (IIRC for example New Treaty War, Facility Constructed)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

well, we certainly can't look backward to it. yet.

a couple of years from now:
'I'm looking forward to moving onto SE6. I kind of think of this Last patch as a holdover for the next year. ' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Paul1980au]

One would have thought the push to Version 2 and then an automatic renaming to SE5 would have been more streamlined. What have they got planned for SEV anyway ? any news from MM

[Fyron]

Please keep Posts related strictly to game bugs in this thread. Thanks.

[Asmala]

I've tried to gather all bug Posts from this thread.

=========

When launching missiles the range is calculated to the nearest planet square. However, missiles have to travel to the upper-left corner of the four central squares. Thus if ships stay at maximum range they do no harm to the planet no matter how much they fire. This bug also applies to direct fire weapons so they can have range penalty -100% when firing at range 8.

Many of the happiness modifiers don't work in simultaneous game (IIRC for example New Treaty War, Facility Constructed)

In a simultaneous movement game, if you send out Messages at the beginning of the turn, sometimes the Messages will disappear in the other orders sent in when the turn is processed. Always send your Messages at the end of the turn!

Retrofits that fail in simultaneous games give the same "Vehicle Retrofit" message log on the left pane as a successful retrofit. You have to click on it and read the center pane to find out if it was successful or not.

Warheads on drones that are rammed do not damage the ramming ship (other than the contribution to overall mass of the drone).

When you try to mothball ships with population on board, the mothball fails but you receive no error message about it. Unless you specifically go check, you never know it didn't work.

ramming planets by ships in strategic combat does not work.

If enemy sweeps a minefield entirely you get no log message about it.

supply sharing between fighter Groups and a fleet is bugged

Units destroyed in combat are listed as "taken" in the combat reports.

Ships in a fleet with 'Don't hurt me orders' do not obey the fleet orders but revert back to their class orders.

Fighters fleeted together do not share supplies

Drones temporarily fleeted using shift-click will warp thru a warp point one at a time. Thus it is impossible to try to overwhelm warp point defenses with a mass of drones.

Fighters won't resupply at a Resupply Depot if the RD is on a moon.

Facility "tags" won't show up on the system view if the facility is on a moon.

Captured ship designs from intel projects are not added to your list of known enemy designs.

In strategic combat, ship strategies will sometimes be completely ignored (a lone ship with "do not fire on planets" or "don't get hurt" can happen to fly to the corner for the first combat turn, then mysteriously turn around and glass a planet or get shot down by the WPs).

"divide points evenly" causes you to lose points (research and intel) when you complete a project. Excess points are not given to other projects.

In tactical combat, if a ship outside the current viewing area fires a Direct Fire weapon at a ship in the viewing area, you see the explosion from the hit, but it doesn't display the beam.

The same thing happens in the other direction, too. In tactical combat, if your ship fires a direct fire weapon at an enemy ship outside of view, then the game doesn't display the shot being fired.

In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything.

If you have a transport ship containing more than one type of alien population, then if you go into the ships/units screen and click the 'cargo' button to show the contents, the cargo list shows the same number for each type of population, even though you may have different numbers of each alien type on board.

If you have more than one atmosphere breathing type of population, the transport minister will take will actually harm your empire by taking wrong-breathing population to planets. When he does this, the planet will become domed. Not that I use ministers.

Temporal Spaceyards don't upgrade from standard ones. I know it is easy to mod, but this should be fixed since setting up multiplayer games should not require a mod for this.

Not really a bug, but an annoying occurance: If you use a saved fill queue to construct things on a planet, and there aren't enough facility slots available to take the list, then the warning message, "There is limit of X facilities on this planet" appears, but the message appears multiple times if your fill queue is over the limit by many items. So if you have a 200-item fill queue for a sphere world and by mistake, try to add it to a small planet, you'll see the warning message 200 times, and you have to click OK that many times to make the warning go away.

[Karibu]

I just changed my old computer into about 4x more efficient one, I have noticed following annoyances: For some reason ships go extremely low speed in tactical combat when you choose option "Animate ship movement in combat". If I take it off, the movement is about 2x faster (still unbelievable slow). If I choose the option "Fast tactical combat", I they move so fast, I can't actually see anything. No movement (I just see the first and Last square of the movement), no firing (occasionally some flash supposed to be a beam weapon) or explosions. This effectively cripples the whole combat. If I choose to watch my fleet battle (no fast tactical combat), I have to wait maybe AN HOUR for ONE BATTLE TURN to be watched (if its a big battle). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif If I take the "fast tactical combat", I can't see how my ships move and fire in practise and that effectively kills all pleasure of wathing any combats and also I can't therefore tweak my ship strategies for I don't want to wait tens of minutes just to see how one special ship fires.

I believe this has something to do with processor sped, for my old computer could handle it better. Well, I don't know but it should be addressed one way or another.

[Baron Munchausen]

Supply sharing between ships and fighters is not bugged. It was deliberately changed to prevent an exploit. Since fighters get full supply when they are launched, you could resupply your fleet with them by doing a little juggling..

[spoon]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Supply sharing between ships and fighters is not bugged. It was deliberately changed to prevent an exploit. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is still a bug, I think, just different from the one it fixed...

[Fyron]

I think the bug is that it reduces the supplies of the fighters to 0 if you put them in a fleet with ships.

[rdouglass]

Anyone posted this Upgrade bug yet?

Example:
Step 1. Create a construction queue with all Mineral Miner I's (5, 15, whatever, just more than 1). Seems to work with any facility, not just MM's.

Step 2. End turn. MM I built on planet. Put Upgrade to Mineral Miner III in queue. It will be entered normal cost and build time for upgrading 1 fac.

Step 3. Build at least 1 more MM I on planet (5 more, 10 more whatever - any number works - full queue even).

Step 4. Reorder queue so upgrade is first (or wait for all other MM I's to be built).

Step 5. Next turn ALL MM I facs will be upgraded to MM III's. Doesn't matter how many; all will be upgraded in 1 turn and at only the cost of upgrading 1.

I'm able to recreate this in all mods I've tried AIC, Proportions, "stock-plus". (It is VERY "effective" in proportions and should definitely be considered an exploit / cheat in a big way.) I have not tried this in a stock game (maybe someone else can) and I'm using SEIV Gold 1.84.

Can anyone second / confirm this?

[Roanon]

Yes, I remember having read about this exploit elsewhere some time ago. Unfortunately, it has been forgotten here - up to now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
This is a really bad exploit, and should definitely be fixed in the Last patch!

[Kamog]

Found another bug. I'm using 1.91.

When you build a sphere world, the starbases you used to construct the world with are still included in the "number in service" statistic in the ship design window, even though they disappear after building the sphere world.

I haven't tried this with a ring world, but it probably happens for those too.

[Fyron]

*thread necromancy*

So... we should continue the list. I recall that a few of these bugs were fixed 1.91, but I do not remember which.

[douglas]

I'm getting negative "number in service" statistics for all of my trade ships in the Dertran game. It seems to count the ship as scrapped when I trade it away, and then counts it off again when the recipient analyzes it.

[Kamog]

With Version 1.91, ships still aren't receiving experience from killing enemy ships with seekers.

If you use a mod that has component mounts, your ship designs don't get saved along with the empire when you save your empire.

I recently got an "Integer Overflow" error and the game crashed during the A.I.'s turn in a game with a large quadrant with lots of planets. Reloading the saved game and replaying the turn didn't help.

[AMF]

I remain convinced that there is a bug in the retrofit routines. I have encountered many times (and been able to consistently reproduce it) a situation in which I get a "cannot retrofit these ships becuase you don't have enough resources" - and I know that I did have enough resources, and, no, I didn't convert any at resource converters in these situations.

I have quadruple checked this in multiple games and it occurs with enough frequency that I rarely retrofit anymore - perhaps my problem was that I tended to retrofit lots of ships at once, but even then the entire cost of retrofitting was affordable. So, I think this is a bug...

Thanks,

Alarik

[Alneyan]

Alarikf, do you have the three resources in storage when making the retrofit? You need to have enough in storage for the three resources in order to make a retrofit, before income happens (after gifts and resource conVersion take place though). Likewise, I gather you aren't making gifts on that same turn?

I have been using a lot of retrofits, and I have yet to run into a bug, besides my own mistakes (somehow, retrofitting a ship costing a lot of radioactives won't work if I don't have any radioactive in storage). Which either means I have been lucky, or you are having a problem with storage; perhaps overlooking one of the two "lesser" resources.

[AMF]

Yeah, the one concrete case I'm thinking of I had oodles and oodles, gazillions, of each resource. But, in any case, I've hashed this over multiple times...I just live with it now...I guess, however, what I would like to see is that retrofitting be more transparent in what it entails. Should be easy to have a line on the empire screen that indicates how much the retrofits you have chosen that turn are going to cost...

not a big deal...


Alneyan said:
Alarikf, do you have the three resources in storage when making the retrofit? You need to have enough in storage for the three resources in order to make a retrofit, before income happens (after gifts and resource conVersion take place though). Likewise, I gather you aren't making gifts on that same turn?

I have been using a lot of retrofits, and I have yet to run into a bug, besides my own mistakes (somehow, retrofitting a ship costing a lot of radioactives won't work if I don't have any radioactive in storage). Which either means I have been lucky, or you are having a problem with storage; perhaps overlooking one of the two "lesser" resources.

[Fyron]

The abilities Generate Points Minerals, Generate Points Organics, and Generate Points Radioactives do not have their generated points tallied anywhere. The ship/base/whatever making the resources makes no mention of them. They are not totaled in the production levels by the Empire Status screen. The points are still generated each turn and added to the stored totals, they are just not shown in any counts of the resources produced each turn.

[Fyron]

Latest compiled list. Were any of these bugs fixed in 1.91?

1. When launching missiles the range is calculated to the nearest planet square. However, missiles have to travel to the upper-left corner of the four central squares. Thus if ships stay at maximum range they do no harm to the planet no matter how much they fire. This bug also applies to direct fire weapons so they can have range penalty -100% when firing at range 8.
2. Many of the happiness modifiers don't work in simultaneous game (IIRC for example New Treaty War, Facility Constructed)
3. In a simultaneous movement game, if you send out Messages at the beginning of the turn, sometimes the Messages will disappear in the other orders sent in when the turn is processed. Always send your Messages at the end of the turn!
4. Retrofits that fail in simultaneous games give the same "Vehicle Retrofit" message log on the left pane as a successful retrofit. You have to click on it and read the center pane to find out if it was successful or not.
5. Warheads on drones that are rammed do not damage the ramming ship (other than the contribution to overall mass of the drone).
6. When you try to mothball ships with population on board, the mothball fails but you receive no error message about it. Unless you specifically go check, you never know it didn't work.
7. Ramming planets by ships in strategic combat does not work.
8. If enemy sweeps a minefield entirely you get no log message about it.
9. Supply sharing between fighter Groups and a fleet is bugged. Fighters seem to drop to 0 supplies when added to a fleet.
10. Units destroyed in combat are listed as "taken" in the combat reports.
11. Ships in a fleet with 'Don't hurt me orders' do not obey the fleet orders but revert back to their class orders.
12. Fighters fleeted together do not share supplies
13. Drones temporarily fleeted using shift-click will warp thru a warp point one at a time. Thus it is impossible to try to overwhelm warp point defenses with a mass of drones.
14. Fighters won't resupply at a Resupply Depot if the RD is on a moon.
15. Facility "tags" won't show up on the system view if the facility is on a moon.
16. Captured ship designs from intel projects are not added to your list of known enemy designs.
17. In strategic combat, ship strategies will sometimes be completely ignored (a lone ship with "do not fire on planets" or "don't get hurt" can happen to fly to the corner for the first combat turn, then mysteriously turn around and glass a planet or get shot down by the WPs).
18. "divide points evenly" causes you to lose points (research and intel) when you complete a project. Excess points are not given to other projects.
19. In tactical combat, if a ship outside the current viewing area fires a Direct Fire weapon at a ship in the viewing area, you see the explosion from the hit, but it doesn't display the beam.
20. The same thing happens in the other direction, too. In tactical combat, if your ship fires a direct fire weapon at an enemy ship outside of view, then the game doesn't display the shot being fired.
21. In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything.
22. If you have a transport ship containing more than one type of alien population, then if you go into the ships/units screen and click the 'cargo' button to show the contents, the cargo list shows the same number for each type of population, even though you may have different numbers of each alien type on board.
23. If you have more than one atmosphere breathing type of population, the transport minister will take will actually harm your empire by taking wrong-breathing population to planets. When he does this, the planet will become domed. Not that I use ministers.
24. Temporal Spaceyards don't upgrade from standard ones. I know it is easy to mod, but this should be fixed since setting up multiplayer games should not require a mod for this.
25. Not really a bug, but an annoying occurance: If you use a saved fill queue to construct things on a planet, and there aren't enough facility slots available to take the list, then the warning message, "There is limit of X facilities on this planet" appears, but the message appears multiple times if your fill queue is over the limit by many items. So if you have a 200-item fill queue for a sphere world and by mistake, try to add it to a small planet, you'll see the warning message 200 times, and you have to click OK that many times to make the warning go away.
26. I'm getting negative "number in service" statistics for all of my trade ships in the Dertran game. It seems to count the ship as scrapped when I trade it away, and then counts it off again when the recipient analyzes it.
27. With Version 1.91, ships still aren't receiving experience from killing enemy ships with seekers.
28. If you use a mod that has component mounts, your ship designs don't get saved along with the empire when you save your empire.
29. I recently got an "Integer Overflow" error and the game crashed during the A.I.'s turn in a game with a large quadrant with lots of planets. Reloading the saved game and replaying the turn didn't help.
30. The abilities Generate Points Minerals, Generate Points Organics, and Generate Points Radioactives do not have their generated points tallied anywhere. The ship/base/whatever making the resources makes no mention of them. They are not totaled in the production levels by the Empire Status screen. The points are still generated each turn and added to the stored totals, they are just not shown in any counts of the resources produced each turn.

[Alneyan]

8: now gives a message when you have lost part of a minefield, or the whole of it, due to minesweepers.

9: I believe fighter and ship supplies are now fully separate, and they do not mix with each other in a fleet. (So fighters with full supplies and a ship without supplies will result in the same situation next turn) At least, it is my latest result when playing 1.91.

[Fyron]

If you have a Robotoid Factory already built on a planet, adding a new one to the build queue does not give a warning about already having one.

[douglas]

Ships gained by crew insurrection are not added to known enemy designs.

Successful crew insurrection projects are not automatically removed from the queue if repeat projects is selected. I haven't tested it, but this probably also happens with PPP.

If a specifically targeted ship bomb project results in the ship's destruction and repeat projects is selected, it remains in the queue but has a different target ship. The new target might not be visible to the player.

There is no warning for building multiple Nature Shrines in the same system.

[Fyron]

Ships armed with modded weapons which can only target other ships will not move away from planets, fighters, etc. They can not fire on these targets, so they just mill about. This can be especially bad if there is an enemy ship or two on the other side of a planet. Your ships will advance and destroy it, but then they will just sit in place, even when in the range of weapon platforms on the planet.

[Arkcon]

The very obscure "planet vanishing" bug is becoming more prevalant, perhaps because I'm using Fyron's Quadrant Mod and TDM Mod Pack races more and more.

I was building ringworlds in a 5 star system. One for each enemy race so they'd have a place to live when I wiped the galaxy clean of their empires -- and one ringworld just vanished. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[EDIT]
Link no work. Arkcon is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif To see the thread, do a search for author Arkcon and "planet vanishing". The thread was started by "Q", but you can't use his handle in the author field.

[Fyron]

Would you mind fixing that link up? It doesn't convert to a link, and is messing up the page formatting.

[Arkcon]

Imperator Fyron said:
Would you mind fixing that link up? It doesn't convert to a link, and is messing up the page formatting.



Oh, simmer down. Give a guy 60 sec to edit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fyron]

I didn't look at the posting time, so sue me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[douglas]

I actually caught that link before you edited it. After stripping off the second http:// from the front and a bunch of stuff the search engine must have added, it works:

link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB23&amp;Number=90641)

[Arkcon]

douglas said:
After stripping off the second http:// from the front and a bunch of stuff the search engine must have added, it works:

link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB23&amp;Number=90641)



Oh, was that all? Can't have 2 of those? Silly me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Thanks.

[douglas]

I think there's a length limit too. Copy&amp;pasting the url into the address field worked fine with just the extra http:// removed, but the link didn't work until I took off all the extra stuff at the end.

[Fyron]

Viewing the component description of a weapon with a to hit modifier does not show that penalty/bonus to hit. Few people know of the +70 to hit of Point Defense Cannons, or the +30 to hit of Wave-Motion Guns...

[Fyron]

Latest compiled list. Any more?

1. When launching missiles the range is calculated to the nearest planet square. However, missiles have to travel to the upper-left corner of the four central squares. Thus if ships stay at maximum range they do no harm to the planet no matter how much they fire. This bug also applies to direct fire weapons so they can have range penalty -100% when firing at range 8.
2. Many of the happiness modifiers don't work in simultaneous game (IIRC for example New Treaty War, Facility Constructed)
3. In a simultaneous movement game, if you send out Messages at the beginning of the turn, sometimes the Messages will disappear in the other orders sent in when the turn is processed. Always send your Messages at the end of the turn!
4. Retrofits that fail in simultaneous games give the same "Vehicle Retrofit" message log on the left pane as a successful retrofit. You have to click on it and read the center pane to find out if it was successful or not.
5. Warheads on drones that are rammed do not damage the ramming ship (other than the contribution to overall mass of the drone).
6. When you try to mothball ships with population on board, the mothball fails but you receive no error message about it. Unless you specifically go check, you never know it didn't work.
7. Ramming planets by ships in strategic combat does not work.
8. Supply sharing between fighter Groups and a fleet is bugged. When fighters and ships are in a fleet, they seem to lose supplies every turn, even if they are sitting stationary.
9. Units destroyed in combat are listed as "taken" in the combat reports.
10. Ships in a fleet with 'Don't hurt me orders' do not obey the fleet orders but revert back to their class orders.
11. Fighters fleeted together do not share supplies
12. Drones temporarily fleeted using shift-click will warp thru a warp point one at a time. Thus it is impossible to try to overwhelm warp point defenses with a mass of drones.
13. Fighters won't resupply at a Resupply Depot if the RD is on a moon.
14. Facility "tags" won't show up on the system view if the facility is on a moon.
15. Captured ship designs from intel projects are not added to your list of known enemy designs.
16. In strategic combat, ship strategies will sometimes be completely ignored (a lone ship with "do not fire on planets" or "don't get hurt" can happen to fly to the corner for the first combat turn, then mysteriously turn around and glass a planet or get shot down by the WPs).
17. "divide points evenly" causes you to lose points (research and intel) when you complete a project. Excess points are not given to other projects.
18. In tactical combat, if a ship outside the current viewing area fires a Direct Fire weapon at a ship in the viewing area, you see the explosion from the hit, but it doesn't display the beam.
19. The same thing happens in the other direction, too. In tactical combat, if your ship fires a direct fire weapon at an enemy ship outside of view, then the game doesn't display the shot being fired.
20. In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything.
21. If you have a transport ship containing more than one type of alien population, then if you go into the ships/units screen and click the 'cargo' button to show the contents, the cargo list shows the same number for each type of population, even though you may have different numbers of each alien type on board.
22. If you have more than one atmosphere breathing type of population, the transport minister will take will actually harm your empire by taking wrong-breathing population to planets. When he does this, the planet will become domed. Not that I use ministers.
23. Temporal Spaceyards don't upgrade from standard ones. I know it is easy to mod, but this should be fixed since setting up multiplayer games should not require a mod for this.
24. Not really a bug, but an annoying occurance: If you use a saved fill queue to construct things on a planet, and there aren't enough facility slots available to take the list, then the warning message, "There is limit of X facilities on this planet" appears, but the message appears multiple times if your fill queue is over the limit by many items. So if you have a 200-item fill queue for a sphere world and by mistake, try to add it to a small planet, you'll see the warning message 200 times, and you have to click OK that many times to make the warning go away.
25. I'm getting negative "number in service" statistics for all of my trade ships in the Dertran game. It seems to count the ship as scrapped when I trade it away, and then counts it off again when the recipient analyzes it.
26. With Version 1.91, ships still aren't receiving experience from killing enemy ships with seekers.
27. If you use a mod that has component mounts, your ship designs don't get saved along with the empire when you save your empire.
28. I recently got an "Integer Overflow" error and the game crashed during the A.I.'s turn in a game with a large quadrant with lots of planets. Reloading the saved game and replaying the turn didn't help.
29. The abilities Generate Points Minerals, Generate Points Organics, and Generate Points Radioactives do not have their generated points tallied anywhere. The ship/base/whatever making the resources makes no mention of them. They are not totaled in the production levels by the Empire Status screen. The points are still generated each turn and added to the stored totals, they are just not shown in any counts of the resources produced each turn.
30. If you have a Robotoid Factory already built on a planet, adding a new one to the build queue does not give a warning about already having one.
31. Ships gained by crew insurrection are not added to known enemy designs.
32. Successful crew insurrection projects are not automatically removed from the queue if repeat projects is selected. I haven't tested it, but this probably also happens with PPP.
33. If a specifically targeted ship bomb project results in the ship's destruction and repeat projects is selected, it remains in the queue but has a different target ship. The new target might not be visible to the player.
34. There is no warning for building multiple Nature Shrines in the same system.
35. Ships armed with modded weapons which can only target other ships will not move away from planets, fighters, etc. They can not fire on these targets, so they just mill about. This can be especially bad if there is an enemy ship or two on the other side of a planet. Your ships will advance and destroy it, but then they will just sit in place, even when in the range of weapon platforms on the planet.
36. Viewing the component description of a weapon with a to hit modifier does not show that penalty/bonus to hit. Few people know of the +70 to hit of Point Defense Cannons, or the +30 to hit of Wave-Motion Guns...

[Colonel]

Hey I think I found two bugs in 1.91 but its only on my pbw games (It could be all simotanious games but I dont play them that much outside of pbw)

1.The computer will create random ship designs even if I dont have the design minister on (when I first noticed this I thought someone ran one of my turns)
2.Political Messages, when I get a messege sometimes it says I have responded to the message when I haven't.

[Fyron]

Colonel said:
Hey I think I found two bugs in 1.91 but its only on my pbw games (It could be all simotanious games but I dont play them that much outside of pbw)

1.The computer will create random ship designs even if I dont have the design minister on (when I first noticed this I thought someone ran one of my turns)
2.Political Messages, when I get a messege sometimes it says I have responded to the message when I haven't.

Both of these are not actually bugs, they are how the game was designed to function. The AI plays any empire for which there was no valid .plr file. You can change this in the Ministers window, which is located in the Empire Status window (crown icon). There is a setting at the bottom used to disable the AI for your empire in simultaneous movement games (aka PBW) when you miss turns.

[Colonel]

But i never missed a turn ever

[Fyron]

Have you asked the game host or PBW admins to check if it was an invalid plr file that you uploaded?

[Captain Kwok]

Imperator Fyron said:
Have you asked the game host or PBW admins to check if it was an invalid plr file that you uploaded?



From my experience this frequently happens mostly due to players uploading a previous turn file - especially those who like saving all their previous .plr files, which pbw does already anyway.

[Colonel]

Ok that might of happened, and that makes sense I think I had sent a message the previous turn when. I might not of downloaded the turn thinking I did

[Fyron]

Any more bugs?

[Slick]

some very nit-picky annoyances... bugs? I dunno, you decide.

- When shift-clicking multiple ships, the "Sentry" button won't light up. However if you then release the Shift key and click on a single one of the previously selected ships, the Sentry button does light up. And then if you click the Sentry button, it puts the entire list of ships that you originally shift-clicked on sentry orders. Wierd.

- If a spaceyard on "emergency build" finishes building, it will still accumulate time on emergency build. There is no warning log entry to alert you to this fact.

- if you build a unit but have no cargo room to store it, the unit will attempt to get built, you will be charged for its resources, no actual unit will appear, (you do get a log entry about no storage) but the build queue won't be cleared and if nothing is done, the planet will attempt to do this same thing all over again.

- [edit] one more that is most frustrating. the AI pathing routine is terrible. Many times I have seen a troop transport fail to capture an undefended planet because it can't figure out how to get around a moon or maybe even a couple of ships in your own fleet.

Slick.

[Q]

Imperator Fyron said:
Any more bugs?



Aren't that enough? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Too bad there will be no final patch to fix theese bugs.

[Kamog]

In the Empire Options, if you turn off "Display note when similar system-wide abilities exists", it doesn't really turn off. It still pops up with a warning message when you add a system-wide facility to the queue if you have one built already.

[Grandpa Kim]

When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.

[Crazy_Dog]

In simultaneous games, if you send the order scrap facility type, it don't work.

Not a bug but....
If a race surrender to you, don't exist an option to get all is planets / ships Minister controled, you have to find one by one and do it manual.... in big games is boring

[douglas]

In simultaneous movement games, ordering a fleet to cloak or decloak shows immediate results correctly, but only the first ship listed in the fleet will actually follow the order when the turn is processed. If the first ship listed in the fleet can't cloak, then the order is ignored entirely when the turn is processed. Fleet cloaking works correctly on the turn the fleet is created, but not after.

Workaround: remove all ships but the first from the fleet, shift-click them all, give the order, and add them all back to the fleet.

Edit: Resources from scrapped facilities, despite being shown as immediately going into the current stores, are not available for retrofitting until the next turn. Resources from scrapped ships, on the other hand, are.

[Crazy_Dog]

In simultaneous games, after converting the atmosphere the AMP don't self destruct.....

[douglas]

As far as I know, that's not a bug. It works as designed. I may not agree with the design (if you switch out population and the AMP is still there, the atmosphere converts instantly; makes no sense), but that's just how it is.

[Kamog]

Sometimes, the upper left hand corner of the screen shows something that doesn't belong there and gets messed up. If you minimize the screen and maximize it again, the problem goes away.

Here is an example. The upper left hand corner of the screen shows a ship portrait.
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/309145-bug%20screenshot%201.JPG

[narf poit chez BOOM]

If you put a link to a webpage containing nothing but the picture, generally netscape at least lets the viewer magnify it to full.

[Slick]

wow. never seen that one before.

Slick.

[Captain Kwok]

In testing my mod, I came across an interesting bug. I wanted to use a torps.bmp image with a seeker weapon. Upon testing to see if it works, this is what happened:

- The ship first fires the seeker like a direct fire weapon, which I never saw to hit an enemy target even with favourable to hit chances.

- The ship then displays a seeker (with appropriate stats) with a garbled image from the race main.bmp. This seeker can hit the target.

[Baron Munchausen]

What Version are you using? That is an ancient bug from the beta testing days. We thought it was finally dead.

[Arkcon]

Baron Munchausen said:
What Version are you using? That is an ancient bug from the beta testing days. We thought it was finally dead.


Oh I've seen that one. It can happen occasionally when you minumize the game while ship motion is being displayed, for example.

I pretty sure, my first simultaneous game vs TDM Modpack AI's, I saw the cursor after replay rest on an enemy ship, and I could see it's orders. But I clicked away and then couldn't replicate the bug, so didn't save the turn and send it to MM.

[Captain Kwok]

Baron Munchausen said:
What Version are you using? That is an ancient bug from the beta testing days. We thought it was finally dead.

I'm using 1.91, and it was done using the simulator so I'm not sure if that might have some effect.

[Grandpa Kim]

A subjugated race loses 40% of its resources to the dominating race, but it also loses 40% of its research and intel which apparently disappears down some black hole.

[Kamog]

Today I was creating a construction fill queue for a sphere world, and SEIV crashed with the error:

"Access Violation at address 005C9A0E in module 'SE4.EXE' read of address FFFFFFFF"

After some experimentation, I discovered that the crash occurs when you have more than 255 items in the fill queue. If you have advanced storage techniques racial trait, a sphere world has 240 facility slots, so that leaves only 15 entries in the queue for units! I was trying to create a fill queue where weapon platforms and troops are interspersed with the facilities, and that caused me to go over the limit. /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

[Slick]

As pointed out in another thread, scrapped facilities in simultaneous games (maybe turn based too) appear to return resources immediately, but they really do not return any resources if you figure it out after the next turn is processed.

Slick.

[Aiken]

Offense (and possibly defense) combat modifiers don't work properly if used on weapon platform hull.
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&amp;file=viewtopic&amp;t=364

[PvK]

* Ships set to Max Weapon Range primary move strategy with secondary move strategy set to Don't Get Hurt, do not always move away after firing their weapons when they start out in range of an enemy. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, making this tactic unreliable.

[ToddT]

Slick said:
As pointed out in another thread, scrapped facilities in simultaneous games (maybe turn based too) appear to return resources immediately, but they really do not return any resources if you figure it out after the next turn is processed.

Slick.



odd i have been in a major war which has kept mineral storage at 0, i have scrapped unneeded facilties to help prevent ship lose do to maintanaince, and unless i'm mistaken you can't repair ships without resources in storage, i have been able to repair all damaged ships.

[Fyron]

Repairing ships costs nothing. Retrofitting to add new components costs resources, but the actual repairs are free. You will of course have to pay maintenance for the ships each turn, but the actual repairs cost nothing extra.

[Fyron]

Apparently you can abandon a colony that has enemy troops besieging it.

[Suicide Junkie]

Imperator Fyron said:
Apparently you can abandon a colony that has enemy troops besieging it.

Oooh, those Last 1-50M people suicide in a planet-glassing scorched-earth move!

Weren't we asking for a planetary self-destruct ability? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Kamog]

What happens when you abandon the planet? Does the enemy still get the planet? Where do the enemy troops go?

[Fyron]

They go into the void. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Atrocities]

Looks like we need another patch. (PLEASE AARON)

[douglas]

If a PPP intel project results in the planet breaking off to form its own empire, and the original player had the AI shouldn't make changes to empire option turned on, so will the new empire. Also, all the population on the planet spontaneously changes to breathing that planet's atmosphere.

[capnq]

I believe the change of breathing is a deliberate design decision. Since the AI doesn't know how to scrap facilities, changing the planet to breathable gives it more facility slots to build infrastructure. (Unless it was already breathable, of course; then the AI is stuck with what it has.)

[Slick]

This is a wierd one. If you look at the rebelled planet, sometimes the population appears to change breathing type; their portrait sometimes even changes to one of the neutral race portraits. However, if you right-click on them, their portrait and breathing type are shown as the original race. If you capture the planet, I don't believe that their breathing type actually does change. It appears that they are pretty much the same as the original race with a new name.

[Q]

Slick said:
This is a wierd one. If you look at the rebelled planet, sometimes the population appears to change breathing type; their portrait sometimes even changes to one of the neutral race portraits. However, if you right-click on them, their portrait and breathing type are shown as the original race. If you capture the planet, I don't believe that their breathing type actually does change. It appears that they are pretty much the same as the original race with a new name.



I cant't confirm this: In a Version 1.91 simultaneous game one of my colonies rebelled and the population changed from oxygen to methane (the planet was methane). The race portrait changed indeed to a neutral one, but when I captured the planet a couple of turns later the race picture and their breathing type remained methane. Therefore the rebellion was actually an advantage for me in the end!!

[Slick]

Very interesting. Maybe more testing is required. I posted something like this bug some time ago and I remember some other people saying that I must have been seeing things.

Another thing is that the rebelled empire retains all research of the parent empire. Get them to surrender and you can easily get lots of easy research benefits.

Another problem is that I can also confirm that the reported 50% success rate of PPP seems a bit high to me. In my Last few games, I have used PPP a lot (and I'm sure that I have overcome the enemy CI projects) and it seems to me that the success rate is more like 1/4 or 1/5.

[PvK]

Seems like there is a bug with drones not launching from drone carriers during planet attacks. Exact conditions or existence of a work-around I don't know.

PvK

[Slick]

See drone thread. I think it was intentional in v1.81.

[Slick]

You can crash the game by using the "Shift-A" hotkey and giving an order that some selected items can't perform. The description for "Shift-A" is "Select All Ships in Ship List" but it really selects all of your things in the selected sector (planets, ships, bases, sats, mines, etc).

So, for instance, if you have a sector with a planet, ships, sats and mines in it, and you Shift-A and then click on an individual ship and hit hit "Y" for "Sentry", you will get a range check error. This can also happen if you "Shift-Click" units that can't receive whatever order you give them.

[Alneyan]

Not really confirmed: it seems like the AI pathfinder has trouble dealing with sectors containing multiple wormholes. It may work well, and there is usually no problem, but something may go awry and the AI can choose a poor path to reach the target (fairly annoying if coordination is required). I did not pick systems to be avoided, and there were no minefields or enemy vessels to make my fleets go somewhere else. Anyone saw this?

Confirmed: satellites have a cloaking button, but are already cloaked. Likewise, drones are always cloaked, but you can "switch" on and off their cloaking (without any actual effect). I would expect fighters to behave similarly. If units were supposed to be able to cloak and decloak, then this is also more than a display bug.

In Fyron's list some posts below, the problem with fighters and ships has been solved (entry 8). Ships and fighters no longer share supplies... but fighters do not share supplies with themselves.

[PvK]

The AI &amp; autopilot navigation does not always choose the best path to a destination more than one system away, when new warp points have been created or when there are many alternative warp paths.

Alneyan pointed out that the Maintenance Problems intelligence project does damage points, and is currently set in the unmodded game to 1, so it will only kill units with up to one point of structure.

PvK

[Fyron]

Normal damage weapons seem to do 1/2 damage to shields against Weapon Platforms. A small WP with 1500 phased shield points requires 3180 damage or so to destroy (3000 for the shields, 180 for the MC and 4 phased shield generators in my test). Suicide Junkie uncovered this originally.

[Fyron]

Latest list:

1. When launching missiles the range is calculated to the nearest planet square. However, missiles have to travel to the upper-left corner of the four central squares. Thus if ships stay at maximum range they do no harm to the planet no matter how much they fire. This bug also applies to direct fire weapons so they can have range penalty -100% when firing at range 8.
2. Many of the happiness modifiers don't work in simultaneous game (IIRC for example New Treaty War, Facility Constructed)
3. In a simultaneous movement game, if you send out Messages at the beginning of the turn, sometimes the Messages will disappear in the other orders sent in when the turn is processed. Always send your Messages at the end of the turn!
4. Retrofits that fail in simultaneous games give the same "Vehicle Retrofit" message log on the left pane as a successful retrofit. You have to click on it and read the center pane to find out if it was successful or not.
5. Warheads on drones that are rammed do not damage the ramming ship (other than the contribution to overall mass of the drone).
6. When you try to mothball ships with population on board, the mothball fails but you receive no error message about it. Unless you specifically go check, you never know it didn't work.
7. Ramming planets by ships in strategic combat does not work.
8. The resources generated from the new 1.91 point generation abilities do not display anywhere in game, though they are still generated. It is very difficult to play with a mod that uses them, since you have no idea whether you are really going to lose 120k minerals next turn or not.
9. Units destroyed in combat are listed as "taken" in the combat reports.
10. Ships in a fleet with 'Don't hurt me orders' do not obey the fleet orders but revert back to their class orders.
11. Fighters fleeted together do not share supplies
12. Drones temporarily fleeted using shift-click will warp thru a warp point one at a time. Thus it is impossible to try to overwhelm warp point defenses with a mass of drones.
13. Fighters won't resupply at a Resupply Depot if the RD is on a moon.
14. Facility "tags" won't show up on the system view if the facility is on a moon.
15. Captured ship designs from intel projects are not added to your list of known enemy designs.
16. In strategic combat, ship strategies will sometimes be completely ignored (a lone ship with "do not fire on planets" or "don't get hurt" can happen to fly to the corner for the first combat turn, then mysteriously turn around and glass a planet or get shot down by the WPs).
17. "divide points evenly" causes you to lose points (research and intel) when you complete a project. Excess points are not given to other projects.
18. In tactical combat, if a ship outside the current viewing area fires a Direct Fire weapon at a ship in the viewing area, you see the explosion from the hit, but it doesn't display the beam.
19. The same thing happens in the other direction, too. In tactical combat, if your ship fires a direct fire weapon at an enemy ship outside of view, then the game doesn't display the shot being fired.
20. In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything.
21. If you have a transport ship containing more than one type of alien population, then if you go into the ships/units screen and click the 'cargo' button to show the contents, the cargo list shows the same number for each type of population, even though you may have different numbers of each alien type on board.
22. If you have more than one atmosphere breathing type of population, the transport minister will take will actually harm your empire by taking wrong-breathing population to planets. When he does this, the planet will become domed. Not that I use ministers.
23. Temporal Spaceyards don't upgrade from standard ones. I know it is easy to mod, but this should be fixed since setting up multiplayer games should not require a mod for this.
24. Not really a bug, but an annoying occurance: If you use a saved fill queue to construct things on a planet, and there aren't enough facility slots available to take the list, then the warning message, "There is limit of X facilities on this planet" appears, but the message appears multiple times if your fill queue is over the limit by many items. So if you have a 200-item fill queue for a sphere world and by mistake, try to add it to a small planet, you'll see the warning message 200 times, and you have to click OK that many times to make the warning go away.
25. I'm getting negative "number in service" statistics for all of my trade ships in the Dertran game. It seems to count the ship as scrapped when I trade it away, and then counts it off again when the recipient analyzes it.
26. With Version 1.91, ships still aren't receiving experience from killing enemy ships with seekers.
27. If you use a mod that has component mounts, your ship designs don't get saved along with the empire when you save your empire.
28. I recently got an "Integer Overflow" error and the game crashed during the A.I.'s turn in a game with a large quadrant with lots of planets. Reloading the saved game and replaying the turn didn't help.
29. The abilities Generate Points Minerals, Generate Points Organics, and Generate Points Radioactives do not have their generated points tallied anywhere. The ship/base/whatever making the resources makes no mention of them. They are not totaled in the production levels by the Empire Status screen. The points are still generated each turn and added to the stored totals, they are just not shown in any counts of the resources produced each turn.
30. If you have a Robotoid Factory already built on a planet, adding a new one to the build queue does not give a warning about already having one.
31. Ships gained by crew insurrection are not added to known enemy designs.
32. Successful intelligence projects with specified targets (not with random targets) are neither automatically removed from the queue nor adjusted to a new target if repeat projects is selected. Points will continually be wasted on these invalid projects. This is most notable when the target is destroyed or otherwise no longer under control of the target empire as a result of the project.
33. If a specifically targeted ship bomb project results in the ship's destruction and repeat projects is selected, it remains in the queue but has a different target ship. The new target might not be visible to the player.
34. There is no warning for building multiple Nature Shrines in the same system.
35. Ships armed with modded weapons which can only target other ships will not move away from planets, fighters, etc. They can not fire on these targets, so they just mill about. This can be especially bad if there is an enemy ship or two on the other side of a planet. Your ships will advance and destroy it, but then they will just sit in place, even when in the range of weapon platforms on the planet.
36. Viewing the component description of a weapon with a to hit modifier does not show that penalty/bonus to hit. Few people know of the +70 to hit of Point Defense Cannons, or the +30 to hit of Wave-Motion Guns...
37. If a spaceyard on "emergency build" finishes building, it will still accumulate time on emergency build. There is no warning log entry to alert you to this fact.
38. If you build a unit but have no cargo room to store it, the unit will attempt to get built, you will be charged for its resources, no actual unit will appear, (you do get a log entry about no storage) but the build queue won't be cleared and if nothing is done, the planet will attempt to do this same thing all over again.
39. The AI pathing routine is terrible. Many times I have seen a troop transport fail to capture an undefended planet because it can't figure out how to get around a moon or maybe even a couple of ships in your own fleet.
40. In the Empire Options, if you turn off "Display note when similar system-wide abilities exists", it doesn't really turn off. It still pops up with a warning message when you add a system-wide facility to the queue if you have one built already.
41. When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.
42. In simultaneous movement games, ordering a fleet to cloak or decloak shows immediate results correctly, but only the first ship listed in the fleet will actually follow the order when the turn is processed. If the first ship listed in the fleet can't cloak, then the order is ignored entirely when the turn is processed. Fleet cloaking works correctly on the turn the fleet is created, but not after.
43. Resources from scrapped facilities in simultaneous games appear to return resources immediately, but they really do not return any resources if you figure it out after the next turn is processed.
44. When using a torp.bmp image for a seeker, the following occur:
- The ship first fires the seeker like a direct fire weapon, which I never saw to hit an enemy target even with favourable to hit chances.
- The ship then displays a seeker (with appropriate stats) with a garbled image from the race main.bmp. This seeker can hit the target.
45. A subjugated race loses 40% of its resources to the dominating race, but it also loses 40% of its research and intel which apparently disappears down some black hole.
46. SEIV crashes with the following error when you have more than 255 items saved in a Fill Queue: "Access Violation at address 005C9A0E in module 'SE4.EXE' read of address FFFFFFFF"
47. Ships set to Max Weapon Range primary move strategy with secondary move strategy set to Don't Get Hurt, do not always move away after firing their weapons when they start out in range of an enemy. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, making this tactic unreliable.
48. You can abandon a colony that has enemy troops besieging it.
49. If a PPP intel project results in the planet breaking off to form its own empire, and the original player had the AI shouldn't make changes to empire option turned on, so will the new empire. Also, all the population on the planet spontaneously changes to breathing that planet's atmosphere.
50. Another problem is that I can also confirm that the reported 50% success rate of PPP seems a bit high to me. In my Last few games, I have used PPP a lot (and I'm sure that I have overcome the enemy CI projects) and it seems to me that the success rate is more like 1/4 or 1/5.
51. You can crash the game by using the "Shift-A" hotkey and giving an order that some selected items can't perform. The description for "Shift-A" is "Select All Ships in Ship List" but it really selects all of your things in the selected sector (planets, ships, bases, sats, mines, etc). So, for instance, if you have a sector with a planet, ships, sats and mines in it, and you Shift-A and then click on an individual ship and hit hit "Y" for "Sentry", you will get a range check error. This can also happen if you "Shift-Click" units that can't receive whatever order you give them.
52. It seems like the AI pathfinder has trouble dealing with sectors containing multiple wormholes. It may work well, and there is usually no problem, but something may go awry and the AI can choose a poor path to reach the target (fairly annoying if coordination is required). I did not pick systems to be avoided, and there were no minefields or enemy vessels to make my fleets go somewhere else.
53. Satellites have a cloaking button, but are already cloaked. Likewise, drones are always cloaked, but you can "switch" on and off their cloaking (without any actual effect). I would expect fighters to behave similarly. If units were supposed to be able to cloak and decloak, then this is also more than a display bug.
54. The Maintenance Problems intelligence project does damage points, and is currently set in the unmodded game to 1, so it will only kill units with up to one point of structure.
55. Normal damage weapons seem to do 1/2 damage to shields against Weapon Platforms. A small WP with 1500 phased shield points requires 3180 damage or so to destroy (3000 for the shields, 180 for the MC and 4 phased shield generators in my test). Suicide Junkie uncovered this originally.
56. You can ram a warp point.

[Slick]

32. Successful crew insurrection projects are not automatically removed from the queue if repeat projects is selected. I haven't tested it, but this probably also happens with PPP.



I don't think this is a bug. That's the way "Repeat Projects" is supposed to work. When "Repeat Projects" is selected, any/all completed Intel or Counter-intel projects are not removed from the queue. Whether or not they are successful is irrelevent.

[Fyron]

If it has a specified target, having it stick around in the queue is a bad thing.

I edited the list to mention the specific target problem.

[Slick]

Well then the "bug" (which is really no more than the game doing exactly what you tell it to do) should apply to all Intel projects with specific targets.

[Fyron]

How about:

32. Successful intelligence projects with specified targets (not with random targets) are neither automatically removed from the queue nor adjusted to a new target if repeat projects is selected. Points will continually be wasted on these invalid projects. This is most notable when the target is destroyed or otherwise no longer under control of the target empire as a result of the project.

[Slick]

I think that's a lot better; at least it's clearer. It is true that points will be wasted on the invalid project. To me, a player should use the event log and take appropriate actions for each entry. If he knows he has "repeat projects" selected, he should manually remove the project after he reads the log entry about the successful intel project. If he didn't remove the project once it succeeded, the next turn he will get a "failed" log entry for that project and that should key the player to remove the successful project from the queue. As far as the AI selecting a new valid target, that's probably better than wasting points on a dead project, but the AI is not known for his wise choices...

[Slick]

Another "not-really-a-bug-but-annoying" bug is that ship ID number affects many aspects of the game, some of them are a little screwy. Specifically Douglas performed some testing and found that Ship ID affects the order in which ships are repaired and some other aspects of the game.

Douglas also found some wierd ways that some Stellar Manipulation actions can be performed in simultaneous movement - and they possibly could be used as an exploit.

To read the actual discussion:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=123233&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=31&amp;fpart=14&amp;vc=1

[Spoo]

29. is a copy of 8.
31. is a copy of 15.

Add: Black holes can be created in a sector without a star (simultaneous game). The order to "create black hole" must be given at a star, but if your first order the ship to move, it will be able to create the black hole in a sector without a star. The star that the order was issued at will dissapear, but will not affect anything else in its system.

EDIT: Slick beat me to it.

[douglas]

Imperator Fyron said:
How about:

32. Successful intelligence projects with specified targets (not with random targets) are neither automatically removed from the queue nor adjusted to a new target if repeat projects is selected. Points will continually be wasted on these invalid projects. This is most notable when the target is destroyed or otherwise no longer under control of the target empire as a result of the project.


If the target is destroyed, by a ship bomb project for example, the project is automatically retargeted on a seemingly random basis (probably related to ship ID, but I'm not going to bother testing it). This could be a minor exploit in that it allows a player to have a specifically targeted project with a target he may never have been able to select otherwise.

[Slick]

I'm not sure if this can be reproduced; haven't tried:

Simultaneous turns.

I had no treaty with empire A; i.e. a treaty of "none".

In my turn log, empire A proposed a treaty, a Trade Alliance.

All in the same turn, I accept the Trade Alliance treaty, look at the "Empires" screen and verify that we now have a Trade Alliance and see the "message sent" for accepting the TA treaty, I then was allowed propose a Trade &amp; Research Alliance, again I "sent" the message although one had already been sent this turn, I checked the "empire" screen again and now we had a Trade &amp; Research Alliance.

This effectively let me change the treaty that was was proposed and then accept it all in one turn. This should not have happened. It should have taken another 2 turns to propose, then empire A accept the T&amp;R Alliance.

[douglas]

Neural Combat Nets don't work. It's not just a display bug, either. I had two identical ships each with neural combat nets, one with 0% experience and the other with 50% experience, fight one very heavily shielded dreadnought. Almost all shooting happened at point blank range, where the base chance to hit in my test game was 25%. The hit rates for the two ships over the many combat turns required to bring down the dreadnoughts shields were well within reasonable random error of 25% for one and 75% for the other. I tested this in both sequential and simultaneous movement, using tactical combat for sequential movement.

[Fyron]

Were the ships in a fleet together for at least one turn before they went into combat?

[douglas]

Yes. Just in case the experience of the fleet imposes a limit, I trained the fleet and did it again. Once again, I got hit rates I would expect if the neural combat net didn't exist.

[CovertJaguar]

That's not cool.

[Slick]

Emergency Build lasts for 11 turns, not 10 as listed.

[Slick]

douglas said:
Neural Combat Nets don't work. It's not just a display bug, either. I had two identical ships each with neural combat nets, one with 0% experience and the other with 50% experience, fight one very heavily shielded dreadnought. Almost all shooting happened at point blank range, where the base chance to hit in my test game was 25%. The hit rates for the two ships over the many combat turns required to bring down the dreadnoughts shields were well within reasonable random error of 25% for one and 75% for the other. I tested this in both sequential and simultaneous movement, using tactical combat for sequential movement.



Hey, Douglas, I was looking through the Dubious Strategy guide today for something else and stumbled across this:


Jubala
Major
posted 28 June 2001 17:54
[Ed: start of a new thread]
I've been wondering if Neural Combat Nets is worth 30kT of space on my ships so I decided to test them. Ships with the NCN get the same experience as any other of your ships in combat even if it doesn't have the NCN itself. However, the ship with the NCN only gets an offensive bonus, not a defensive one. And it doesn't get bonus from fleet experience unless it's in a fleet with experience. Example:
Ship A no NCN 20% ship exp &amp; 20 fleet exp.
Ship B NCN no ship exp no fleet exp

Ship A gets a total offensive and defensive bonus of 40% while Ship B gets on offensive bonus of 20% but no defensive bonus.
I wonder if the no defensive bonus is intented or if it's a bug/oversight.
Since ships with the NCN only gets offensive experience boosts I'm not sure If I want to "waste" 30kT of space on my ships by adding one. I suppose it could be useful for ships fresh off the yards to add them to a fleet with ships that's been trained up to max and send them off to face the enemy without delay.



The Neural Combat Net is not addressed again in the guide. Looks like there has been problems with it since 2001.

[Slick]

Geoschmo found that shields appear to count double on fighters:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=347808&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=31&amp;fpart=1

The double-shields bug has also been previously found by SJ on Weapon Platforms.

I suspect that this may also happen with other units.

[Slick]

Sometimes in simultaneous movement games, when a ship/fleet is ordered to move to a location (or waypoint), the ship/fleet will end its turn at its required destination, but the order won't be cleared from its order queue. This prevents the ship/fleet from being selected with the "next ship" or "next fleet" hotkeys/icons because the game still thinks there is an outstanding order. If nothing is done, the ship will complete its order on the following turn, but this effectively delays you from giving the ship/fleet new orders for the additional turn; unless you are very observant and notice this without the aid of "next ship/fleet."

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

41. When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.



This is not a bug IIRC. This is simply the standard value decrease of a planet/field when you remote mine it, no matter what the amount you get from it. It always drops by 1% each turn.



Also, perhaps a bug in the Star Trek Mod Version 1.9.1.2 (or whatever the current version is), I found a system with a sh*tload of asteroid fields - "Asteroid field floating in deep space" - which is OK, however, three of the fields had moons. Picture attached.

[Fyron]

Strategia_In_Ultima said:
This is not a bug IIRC. This is simply the standard value decrease of a planet/field when you remote mine it, no matter what the amount you get from it. It always drops by 1% each turn.

The bug is that it decreases to 249%, not 1% as normal. A planet with value 300% will drop by 51% to 249% after one turn.


Also, perhaps a bug in the Star Trek Mod Version 1.9.1.2 (or whatever the current version is), I found a system with a sh*tload of asteroid fields - "Asteroid field floating in deep space" - which is OK, however, three of the fields had moons. Picture attached.

This is not a bug. It comes from FQM. Those planets are meant to be there. Think of them as really big, colonizable asteroids. Or perhaps a set of them equalling as much use as a normal tiny planet. It is an abstraction, as asteroids themselves can not be colonized.

[Q]

Strategia_In_Ultima said:

41. When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.



This is not a bug IIRC. This is simply the standard value decrease of a planet/field when you remote mine it, no matter what the amount you get from it. It always drops by 1% each turn.



In my opinion it is a bug if it drops in one turn from 290% to 249% when it says 1% decrease per turn!
A related bug is that a value improvement plant on a planet with a value over 250% will decrease its value to 250% (instead of remaining constant, as it says that it will increase the value up to 250%)!
In both cases values over 250% are not managed correctly.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Again, possibly a bug, again, in the Star Trek Mod (though I think that it is also present in the stock game): When you build a ship training facility, and you build a new ship in that sector, the new ship immediately gets a training bonus. I don't know if this is intended or not, but it seems like a bug to me.

[Fyron]

Not a bug. I see no problem with a ship starting the training as it is being built. The crew can get basic theoretical training and debriefing before they board the ship.

[Emperor's Child]

Buggy or not, new crews do go through training pipelines while their ships are fitting out. This type of in-game performance boost is perfectly logical from the reality perspective.

[Fyron]

Latest list:

1. When launching missiles the range is calculated to the nearest planet square. However, missiles have to travel to the upper-left corner of the four central squares. Thus if ships stay at maximum range they do no harm to the planet no matter how much they fire. This bug also applies to direct fire weapons so they can have range penalty -100% when firing at range 8.
2. Many of the happiness modifiers don't work in simultaneous game (IIRC for example New Treaty War, Facility Constructed)
3. In a simultaneous movement game, if you send out Messages at the beginning of the turn, sometimes the Messages will disappear in the other orders sent in when the turn is processed. Always send your Messages at the end of the turn!
4. Retrofits that fail in simultaneous games give the same "Vehicle Retrofit" message log on the left pane as a successful retrofit. You have to click on it and read the center pane to find out if it was successful or not.
5. Warheads on drones that are rammed do not damage the ramming ship (other than the contribution to overall mass of the drone).
6. When you try to mothball ships with population on board, the mothball fails but you receive no error message about it. Unless you specifically go check, you never know it didn't work.
7. Ramming planets by ships in strategic combat does not work.
8. The abilities Generate Points Minerals, Generate Points Organics, and Generate Points Radioactives do not have their generated points tallied anywhere. The ship/base/whatever making the resources makes no mention of them. They are not totaled in the production levels by the Empire Status screen. The points are still generated each turn and added to the stored totals, they are just not shown in any counts of the resources produced each turn. It is very difficult to play with a mod that uses them, since you have no idea whether you are really going to lose 120k minerals next turn or not.
9. Units destroyed in combat are listed as "taken" in the combat reports.
10. Ships in a fleet with 'Don't hurt me orders' do not obey the fleet orders but revert back to their class orders.
11. Fighters fleeted together do not share supplies
12. Drones temporarily fleeted using shift-click will warp thru a warp point one at a time. Thus it is impossible to try to overwhelm warp point defenses with a mass of drones.
13. Fighters won't resupply at a Resupply Depot if the RD is on a moon.
14. Facility "tags" won't show up on the system view if the facility is on a moon.
15. Captured ship designs from intel projects (crew insurrection) are not added to your list of known enemy designs.
16. In strategic combat, ship strategies will sometimes be completely ignored (a lone ship with "do not fire on planets" or "don't get hurt" can happen to fly to the corner for the first combat turn, then mysteriously turn around and glass a planet or get shot down by the WPs).
17. "divide points evenly" causes you to lose points (research and intel) when you complete a project. Excess points are not given to other projects.
18. In tactical combat, if a ship outside the current viewing area fires a Direct Fire weapon at a ship in the viewing area, you see the explosion from the hit, but it doesn't display the beam.
19. The same thing happens in the other direction, too. In tactical combat, if your ship fires a direct fire weapon at an enemy ship outside of view, then the game doesn't display the shot being fired.
20. In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything.
21. If you have a transport ship containing more than one type of alien population, then if you go into the ships/units screen and click the 'cargo' button to show the contents, the cargo list shows the same number for each type of population, even though you may have different numbers of each alien type on board.
22. If you have more than one atmosphere breathing type of population, the transport minister will take will actually harm your empire by taking wrong-breathing population to planets. When he does this, the planet will become domed. Not that I use ministers.
23. Temporal Spaceyards don't upgrade from standard ones. I know it is easy to mod, but this should be fixed since setting up multiplayer games should not require a mod for this.
24. Not really a bug, but an annoying occurance: If you use a saved fill queue to construct things on a planet, and there aren't enough facility slots available to take the list, then the warning message, "There is limit of X facilities on this planet" appears, but the message appears multiple times if your fill queue is over the limit by many items. So if you have a 200-item fill queue for a sphere world and by mistake, try to add it to a small planet, you'll see the warning message 200 times, and you have to click OK that many times to make the warning go away.
25. I'm getting negative "number in service" statistics for all of my trade ships in the Dertran game. It seems to count the ship as scrapped when I trade it away, and then counts it off again when the recipient analyzes it.
26. With Version 1.91, ships still aren't receiving experience from killing enemy ships with seekers.
27. If you use a mod that has component mounts, your ship designs don't get saved along with the empire when you save your empire.
28. I recently got an "Integer Overflow" error and the game crashed during the A.I.'s turn in a game with a large quadrant with lots of planets. Reloading the saved game and replaying the turn didn't help.
29. Neural Combat Nets don't work. It's not just a display bug, either. I had two identical ships each with neural combat nets, one with 0% experience and the other with 50% experience, fight one very heavily shielded dreadnought. Almost all shooting happened at point blank range, where the base chance to hit in my test game was 25%. The hit rates for the two ships over the many combat turns required to bring down the dreadnoughts shields were well within reasonable random error of 25% for one and 75% for the other. I tested this in both sequential and simultaneous movement, using tactical combat for sequential movement.
30. If you have a Robotoid Factory already built on a planet, adding a new one to the build queue does not give a warning about already having one.
31. Sometimes in simultaneous movement games, when a ship/fleet is ordered to move to a location (or waypoint), the ship/fleet will end its turn at its required destination, but the order won't be cleared from its order queue. This prevents the ship/fleet from being selected with the "next ship" or "next fleet" hotkeys/icons because the game still thinks there is an outstanding order. If nothing is done, the ship will complete its order on the following turn, but this effectively delays you from giving the ship/fleet new orders for the additional turn; unless you are very observant and notice this without the aid of "next ship/fleet."
32. Successful intelligence projects with specified targets (not with random targets) are neither automatically removed from the queue nor adjusted to a new target if repeat projects is selected. Points will continually be wasted on these invalid projects. This is most notable when the target is destroyed or otherwise no longer under control of the target empire as a result of the project.
33. If a specifically targeted ship bomb project results in the ship's destruction and repeat projects is selected, it remains in the queue but has a different target ship. The new target might not be visible to the player.
34. There is no warning for building multiple Nature Shrines in the same system.
35. Ships armed with modded weapons which can only target other ships will not move away from planets, fighters, etc. They can not fire on these targets, so they just mill about. This can be especially bad if there is an enemy ship or two on the other side of a planet. Your ships will advance and destroy it, but then they will just sit in place, even when in the range of weapon platforms on the planet.
36. Viewing the component description of a weapon with a to hit modifier does not show that penalty/bonus to hit. Few people know of the +70 to hit of Point Defense Cannons, or the +30 to hit of Wave-Motion Guns...
37. If a spaceyard on "emergency build" finishes building, it will still accumulate time on emergency build. There is no warning log entry to alert you to this fact.
38. If you build a unit but have no cargo room to store it, the unit will attempt to get built, you will be charged for its resources, no actual unit will appear, (you do get a log entry about no storage) but the build queue won't be cleared and if nothing is done, the planet will attempt to do this same thing all over again.
39. The AI pathing routine is terrible. Many times I have seen a troop transport fail to capture an undefended planet because it can't figure out how to get around a moon or maybe even a couple of ships in your own fleet.
40. In the Empire Options, if you turn off "Display note when similar system-wide abilities exists", it doesn't really turn off. It still pops up with a warning message when you add a system-wide facility to the queue if you have one built already.
41. When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.
42. In simultaneous movement games, ordering a fleet to cloak or decloak shows immediate results correctly, but only the first ship listed in the fleet will actually follow the order when the turn is processed. If the first ship listed in the fleet can't cloak, then the order is ignored entirely when the turn is processed. Fleet cloaking works correctly on the turn the fleet is created, but not after.
43. Resources from scrapped facilities in simultaneous games appear to return resources immediately, but they really do not return any resources if you figure it out after the next turn is processed.
44. When using a torp.bmp image for a seeker, the following occur:
- The ship first fires the seeker like a direct fire weapon, which I never saw to hit an enemy target even with favourable to hit chances.
- The ship then displays a seeker (with appropriate stats) with a garbled image from the race main.bmp. This seeker can hit the target.
45. A subjugated race loses 40% of its resources to the dominating race, but it also loses 40% of its research and intel which apparently disappears down some black hole.
46. SEIV crashes with the following error when you have more than 255 items saved in a Fill Queue: "Access Violation at address 005C9A0E in module 'SE4.EXE' read of address FFFFFFFF"
47. Ships set to Max Weapon Range primary move strategy with secondary move strategy set to Don't Get Hurt, do not always move away after firing their weapons when they start out in range of an enemy. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, making this tactic unreliable.
48. You can abandon a colony that has enemy troops besieging it.
49. If a PPP intel project results in the planet breaking off to form its own empire, and the original player had the AI shouldn't make changes to empire option turned on, so will the new empire. Also, all the population on the planet spontaneously changes to breathing that planet's atmosphere.
50. Another problem is that I can also confirm that the reported 50% success rate of PPP seems a bit high to me. In my Last few games, I have used PPP a lot (and I'm sure that I have overcome the enemy CI projects) and it seems to me that the success rate is more like 1/4 or 1/5.
51. You can crash the game by using the "Shift-A" hotkey and giving an order that some selected items can't perform. The description for "Shift-A" is "Select All Ships in Ship List" but it really selects all of your things in the selected sector (planets, ships, bases, sats, mines, etc). So, for instance, if you have a sector with a planet, ships, sats and mines in it, and you Shift-A and then click on an individual ship and hit hit "Y" for "Sentry", you will get a range check error. This can also happen if you "Shift-Click" units that can't receive whatever order you give them.
52. It seems like the AI pathfinder has trouble dealing with sectors containing multiple wormholes. It may work well, and there is usually no problem, but something may go awry and the AI can choose a poor path to reach the target (fairly annoying if coordination is required). I did not pick systems to be avoided, and there were no minefields or enemy vessels to make my fleets go somewhere else.
53. Satellites have a cloaking button, but are already cloaked. Likewise, drones are always cloaked, but you can "switch" on and off their cloaking (without any actual effect). I would expect fighters to behave similarly. If units were supposed to be able to cloak and decloak, then this is also more than a display bug.
54. The Maintenance Problems intelligence project does damage points, and is currently set in the unmodded game to 1, so it will only kill units with up to one point of structure.
55. Normal damage weapons seem to do 1/2 damage to shields against Weapon Platforms. A small WP with 1500 phased shield points requires 3180 damage or so to destroy (3000 for the shields, 180 for the MC and 4 phased shield generators in my test).
56. You can ram a warp point.

[bearclaw]

In regards to the issue of messages not being sent if you do them first in your turn, it was noticed by someone in one of my PBEM games that if you send messages then SAVE the game, when you start the game next it will say you've sent those messages but none will go through. So, again, make sure you do your messages last WITHOUT saving before ending your turn.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Adamant Mod Bug (and it's big):
I'm currently in a game against the AI. I've got only a 2-system sector; my home system, and a neutral player's home system. I'm set up as an Oxy/Rock race and the neutrals are Hydro/Ice. I've selected a one-planet start and Bad as Home Planet Value.

Both of us started on unbreathable gas giants.

My homeworld is a domed Hydrogen Gas Giant, with 16 billion out of 1279 million. The neutrals are on a carbon dioxide Gas Giant, also with 16 billion people.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

edit: Oh, and one more thing: I was attacking these neutrals, and they launched 4 squadrons of 10 Orbital Fighters from their homeworld. The picture kept facing upwards, even during diagonal movement. I've never seen this before.

[douglas]

This is a known problem in any mod that has moons larger than tiny. I expect your homeworld has a small or medium oxy/rock moon and the neutral race has a hydro/ice moon. Those are the planets that the game looked at when choosing the sectors for your homeworlds, but it then planted them on the main planet. To avoid triggering this bug, you'll have to play with good starting planets, as that requires large homeworlds and there are no large moons in Adamant. If the largest moons were merely small, average value starting planets would also work without problems.

[Ed Kolis]

No one's mentioned the old one of the to-hit bonuses not being displayed when you right-click on a weapon component? Or is that considered a missing feature?

edit: oh yeah, and what about the "Vechicle" list type override? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif and the fact that unit shields only show up when the unit stack loses a unit and not when it's actually taking shield damage?

[Fyron]

Ekolis, please see #36:

36. Viewing the component description of a weapon with a to hit modifier does not show that penalty/bonus to hit. Few people know of the +70 to hit of Point Defense Cannons, or the +30 to hit of Wave-Motion Guns...

"what about the "Vechicle" list type override"

I don't forsee this ever being fixed for SEIV, so probably no point in reporting it. At least it works perfectly, unlike some other 1.91 modding additions...

RE FQM/Adamant:

You can choose both average and good homeworld starts in FQM and Adamant without issue (except in Star Heavy quadrants, mentioned later). The problems only arise with bad homeworld starts, which are instructed to be avoided in part 3 of the FQM readme. Systems that have Medium sized moons can not have empires start in them.


Due to the way in which SE4 selects homeworlds when starting a game, it is possible to get HWs with the wrong size, planet type and/or atmosphere when using a Bad or Average homeworld start. When selecting a location for a homeworld, SE4 either selects an appropriate sized planet on the map or an empty sector. With an empty sector, a new planet is created for the homeworld. If SE4 chooses an existing planet that happens to be a moon (a planet with a letter at the end of it's name), then the homeworld "status" is transfered to the main planet in the sector. Since these planets are typically not entirely random in FQM, the homeworld will use the size, atmosphere and type of the planet, instead of what it should use based on race design and game setup. This can happen with Bad and Average homeworld starts because there are many Small and Medium sized moons in the mod. It will not happen with Good homeworld starts because there are no large moons. It should not happen often with Average homeworld starts because systems with Medium moons are no longer allowable as starting locations.

Which I see was not rewritten quite correctly with the update that removed medium moons from starting systems...

It also seems that the Star Heavy quadrant uses the old "Standard 1 AS" systems, which nothing else uses. It is the only quadrant where you could possibly have a medium moon chosen as a HW.

[Ed Kolis]

Racial tech bug: if a racial tech requires a non-racial tech as its only prerequisite, the racial tech will show up as an expected result of researching the non-racial tech for all races, even those without the appropriate racial trait.

[Arkcon]

I'm sure all the real guru's know this anyway, but just to help out the semi noobs, I just found out ...

System gravitational shield facility only prevents against star destroyer components. Natural novas still happen with the facility in place.

[Slaughtermeyer]

Although I've already reported this in a different thread, I'll report it again here: while on day 0 of movement replays, you can access the diplomacy screen and give diplomatic orders, which can cause the game to crash during the subsequent execution phase if it's a simultaneous game.

[Fyron]

*urgently bumps post*

[Captain Kwok]

Am I detecting a sense of humour here?

[Wolfman77]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

41. When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is not a bug IIRC. This is simply the standard value decrease of a planet/field when you remote mine it, no matter what the amount you get from it. It always drops by 1% each turn.

I believe Planets are set with a max value of 250% in the setting text. I could be missing some of the details you mentioned but I'm assuming it was a planet created from an asteroid field. I noticed that if the asteroids are over 250% the new planet will have matching stats until mined or has resource facilities built on it. Then it drops to 250%. Minus 1% if you are mining it, leaves 249%. If you were to change the max planet value to 300% they wouldn't do this, but then value improvment plants would improve planets to 300%. Also destroying the planet before mining it should keep it to just the normal 1% per turn, if you don't want or can't use the planet.

[Fyron]

I expect that asteroids with a value of 278% that I create a planet from or mine with robo miners will have a value of 278%. Remote mining an asteroid has absolutely nothing to do with with max planet values, but with max asteroid values. Enforcing the max planetary value on created planets is one thing; enforcing it on objects that are in no way planets is another matter entirely. It violates this logically expected behavior, thus it is a bug. Or at the very least, it is a poorly coded algorithm that needs to be revamped, which is similar to a bug.

[Q]

Completed AI counter intel projects will act as offensive intel against the targeted empire (AI counter intel projects are targeted, which is impossible for human players to do) and deplete the counter intel of the attacked empire.

[Slaughtermeyer]

When playing simultaneous games against humans, if you give an attack order against a specific ship and the other player changes the name of the ship that same turn, the attack order will not be executed.

[Slick]

Slaughtermeyer said:
When playing simultaneous games against humans, if you give an attack order against a specific ship and the other player changes the name of the ship that same turn, the attack order will not be executed.



Interesting. Looks like a minesweeping attack base ship can go anywhere without being attacked so long as its name is changed each turn and it doesn't accidentally move into a sector with an enemy ship/fleet...

This one looks kinda bad. I guess it's too cumbersome to rename lots of ships each turn, but still...

[Alneyan]

And can you say "Stellar Manipulation vessels that cannot be caught up, including Star Destroyers"? I know I could have used a trick like that to save several SM ships from certain destruction...

[Fyron]

Latest urgently compiled list:

1. When launching missiles the range is calculated to the nearest planet square. However, missiles have to travel to the upper-left corner of the four central squares. Thus if ships stay at maximum range they do no harm to the planet no matter how much they fire. This bug also applies to direct fire weapons so they can have range penalty -100% when firing at range 8.
2. Many of the happiness modifiers don't work in simultaneous game (IIRC for example New Treaty War, Facility Constructed)
3. In a simultaneous movement game, if you send out Messages at the beginning of the turn, sometimes the Messages will disappear in the other orders sent in when the turn is processed. Always send your Messages at the end of the turn!
4. Retrofits that fail in simultaneous games give the same "Vehicle Retrofit" message log on the left pane as a successful retrofit. You have to click on it and read the center pane to find out if it was successful or not.
5. Warheads on drones that are rammed do not damage the ramming ship (other than the contribution to overall mass of the drone).
6. When you try to mothball ships with population on board, the mothball fails but you receive no error message about it. Unless you specifically go check, you never know it didn't work.
7. Ramming planets by ships in strategic combat does not work.
8. The abilities Generate Points Minerals, Generate Points Organics, and Generate Points Radioactives do not have their generated points tallied anywhere. The ship/base/whatever making the resources makes no mention of them. They are not totaled in the production levels by the Empire Status screen. The points are still generated each turn and added to the stored totals, they are just not shown in any counts of the resources produced each turn. It is very difficult to play with a mod that uses them, since you have no idea whether you are really going to lose 120k minerals next turn or not.
9. Units destroyed in combat are listed as "taken" in the combat reports.
10. Ships in a fleet with 'Don't hurt me orders' do not obey the fleet orders but revert back to their class orders.
11. Fighters fleeted together do not share supplies
12. Drones temporarily fleeted using shift-click will warp thru a warp point one at a time. Thus it is impossible to try to overwhelm warp point defenses with a mass of drones.
13. Fighters won't resupply at a Resupply Depot if the RD is on a moon.
14. Facility "tags" won't show up on the system view if the facility is on a moon.
15. Captured ship designs from intel projects (crew insurrection) are not added to your list of known enemy designs.
16. In strategic combat, ship strategies will sometimes be completely ignored (a lone ship with "do not fire on planets" or "don't get hurt" can happen to fly to the corner for the first combat turn, then mysteriously turn around and glass a planet or get shot down by the WPs).
17. "divide points evenly" causes you to lose points (research and intel) when you complete a project. Excess points are not given to other projects.
18. In tactical combat, if a ship outside the current viewing area fires a Direct Fire weapon at a ship in the viewing area, you see the explosion from the hit, but it doesn't display the beam.
19. The same thing happens in the other direction, too. In tactical combat, if your ship fires a direct fire weapon at an enemy ship outside of view, then the game doesn't display the shot being fired.
20. In the construction queues screen, the "ships" button doesn't seem to do anything.
21. If you have a transport ship containing more than one type of alien population, then if you go into the ships/units screen and click the 'cargo' button to show the contents, the cargo list shows the same number for each type of population, even though you may have different numbers of each alien type on board.
22. If you have more than one atmosphere breathing type of population, the transport minister will take will actually harm your empire by taking wrong-breathing population to planets. When he does this, the planet will become domed. Not that I use ministers.
23. Temporal Spaceyards don't upgrade from standard ones. I know it is easy to mod, but this should be fixed since setting up multiplayer games should not require a mod for this.
24. Not really a bug, but an annoying occurance: If you use a saved fill queue to construct things on a planet, and there aren't enough facility slots available to take the list, then the warning message, "There is limit of X facilities on this planet" appears, but the message appears multiple times if your fill queue is over the limit by many items. So if you have a 200-item fill queue for a sphere world and by mistake, try to add it to a small planet, you'll see the warning message 200 times, and you have to click OK that many times to make the warning go away.
25. I'm getting negative "number in service" statistics for all of my trade ships in the Dertran game. It seems to count the ship as scrapped when I trade it away, and then counts it off again when the recipient analyzes it.
26. With Version 1.91, ships still aren't receiving experience from killing enemy ships with seekers.
27. If you use a mod that has component mounts, your ship designs don't get saved along with the empire when you save your empire.
28. I recently got an "Integer Overflow" error and the game crashed during the A.I.'s turn in a game with a large quadrant with lots of planets. Reloading the saved game and replaying the turn didn't help.
29. Neural Combat Nets don't work. It's not just a display bug, either. I had two identical ships each with neural combat nets, one with 0% experience and the other with 50% experience, fight one very heavily shielded dreadnought. Almost all shooting happened at point blank range, where the base chance to hit in my test game was 25%. The hit rates for the two ships over the many combat turns required to bring down the dreadnoughts shields were well within reasonable random error of 25% for one and 75% for the other. I tested this in both sequential and simultaneous movement, using tactical combat for sequential movement.
30. If you have a Robotoid Factory already built on a planet, adding a new one to the build queue does not give a warning about already having one.
31. Sometimes in simultaneous movement games, when a ship/fleet is ordered to move to a location (or waypoint), the ship/fleet will end its turn at its required destination, but the order won't be cleared from its order queue. This prevents the ship/fleet from being selected with the "next ship" or "next fleet" hotkeys/icons because the game still thinks there is an outstanding order. If nothing is done, the ship will complete its order on the following turn, but this effectively delays you from giving the ship/fleet new orders for the additional turn; unless you are very observant and notice this without the aid of "next ship/fleet."
32. Successful intelligence projects with specified targets (not with random targets) are neither automatically removed from the queue nor adjusted to a new target if repeat projects is selected. Points will continually be wasted on these invalid projects. This is most notable when the target is destroyed or otherwise no longer under control of the target empire as a result of the project.
33. If a specifically targeted ship bomb project results in the ship's destruction and repeat projects is selected, it remains in the queue but has a different target ship. The new target might not be visible to the player.
34. There is no warning for building multiple Nature Shrines in the same system.
35. Ships armed with modded weapons which can only target other ships will not move away from planets, fighters, etc. They can not fire on these targets, so they just mill about. This can be especially bad if there is an enemy ship or two on the other side of a planet. Your ships will advance and destroy it, but then they will just sit in place, even when in the range of weapon platforms on the planet.
36. Viewing the component description of a weapon with a to hit modifier does not show that penalty/bonus to hit. Few people know of the +70 to hit of Point Defense Cannons, or the +30 to hit of Wave-Motion Guns...
37. If a spaceyard on "emergency build" finishes building, it will still accumulate time on emergency build. There is no warning log entry to alert you to this fact.
38. If you build a unit but have no cargo room to store it, the unit will attempt to get built, you will be charged for its resources, no actual unit will appear, (you do get a log entry about no storage) but the build queue won't be cleared and if nothing is done, the planet will attempt to do this same thing all over again.
39. The AI pathing routine is terrible. Many times I have seen a troop transport fail to capture an undefended planet because it can't figure out how to get around a moon or maybe even a couple of ships in your own fleet.
40. In the Empire Options, if you turn off "Display note when similar system-wide abilities exists", it doesn't really turn off. It still pops up with a warning message when you add a system-wide facility to the queue if you have one built already.
41. When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.
42. In simultaneous movement games, ordering a fleet to cloak or decloak shows immediate results correctly, but only the first ship listed in the fleet will actually follow the order when the turn is processed. If the first ship listed in the fleet can't cloak, then the order is ignored entirely when the turn is processed. Fleet cloaking works correctly on the turn the fleet is created, but not after.
43. Resources from scrapped facilities in simultaneous games appear to return resources immediately, but they really do not return any resources if you figure it out after the next turn is processed.
44. When using a torp.bmp image for a seeker, the following occur:
- The ship first fires the seeker like a direct fire weapon, which I never saw to hit an enemy target even with favourable to hit chances.
- The ship then displays a seeker (with appropriate stats) with a garbled image from the race main.bmp. This seeker can hit the target.
45. A subjugated race loses 40% of its resources to the dominating race, but it also loses 40% of its research and intel which apparently disappears down some black hole.
46. SEIV crashes with the following error when you have more than 255 items saved in a Fill Queue: "Access Violation at address 005C9A0E in module 'SE4.EXE' read of address FFFFFFFF"
47. Ships set to Max Weapon Range primary move strategy with secondary move strategy set to Don't Get Hurt, do not always move away after firing their weapons when they start out in range of an enemy. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, making this tactic unreliable.
48. You can abandon a colony that has enemy troops besieging it.
49. If a PPP intel project results in the planet breaking off to form its own empire, and the original player had the AI shouldn't make changes to empire option turned on, so will the new empire. Also, all the population on the planet spontaneously changes to breathing that planet's atmosphere.
50. Another problem is that I can also confirm that the reported 50% success rate of PPP seems a bit high to me. In my Last few games, I have used PPP a lot (and I'm sure that I have overcome the enemy CI projects) and it seems to me that the success rate is more like 1/4 or 1/5.
51. You can crash the game by using the "Shift-A" hotkey and giving an order that some selected items can't perform. The description for "Shift-A" is "Select All Ships in Ship List" but it really selects all of your things in the selected sector (planets, ships, bases, sats, mines, etc). So, for instance, if you have a sector with a planet, ships, sats and mines in it, and you Shift-A and then click on an individual ship and hit hit "Y" for "Sentry", you will get a range check error. This can also happen if you "Shift-Click" units that can't receive whatever order you give them.
52. It seems like the AI pathfinder has trouble dealing with sectors containing multiple wormholes. It may work well, and there is usually no problem, but something may go awry and the AI can choose a poor path to reach the target (fairly annoying if coordination is required). I did not pick systems to be avoided, and there were no minefields or enemy vessels to make my fleets go somewhere else.
53. Satellites have a cloaking button, but are already cloaked. Likewise, drones are always cloaked, but you can "switch" on and off their cloaking (without any actual effect). I would expect fighters to behave similarly. If units were supposed to be able to cloak and decloak, then this is also more than a display bug.
54. The Maintenance Problems intelligence project does damage points, and is currently set in the unmodded game to 1, so it will only kill units with up to one point of structure.
55. Normal damage weapons seem to do 1/2 damage to shields against Weapon Platforms. A small WP with 1500 phased shield points requires 3180 damage or so to destroy (3000 for the shields, 180 for the MC and 4 phased shield generators in my test).
56. You can ram a warp point.
57. In regards to the issue of messages not being sent if you do them first in your turn, it was noticed by someone in one of my PBEM games that if you send messages then SAVE the game, when you start the game next it will say you've sent those messages but none will go through. So, again, make sure you do your messages last WITHOUT saving before ending your turn.
58. Inherent to-hit bonuses for weapon components are not displayed anywhere in-game when viewing the description/details of the weapon. Players are forced to look in the data files to find such information.
59. If a racial tech requires a non-racial tech as its only prerequisite, the racial tech will show up as an expected result of researching the non-racial tech for all races, even those without the appropriate racial trait.
60. System gravitational shield facility only prevents against star destroyer components. Natural novas still happen with the facility in place.
61. While on day 0 of movement replays, you can access the diplomacy screen and give diplomatic orders, which can cause the game to crash during the subsequent execution phase if it's a simultaneous game.
62. Completed AI counter intel projects will act as offensive intel against the targeted empire (AI counter intel projects are targeted, which is impossible for human players to do) and deplete the counter intel of the attacked empire.
63. When playing simultaneous games against humans, if you give an attack order against a specific ship and the other player changes the name of the ship that same turn, the attack order will not be executed.

[TurinTurambar]

&lt;snip&gt;

57. In regards to the issue of messages not being sent if you do them first in your turn, it was noticed by someone in one of my PBEM games that if you send messages then SAVE the game, when you start the game next it will say you've sent those messages but none will go through. So, again, make sure you do your messages last WITHOUT saving before ending your turn.

&lt;snip&gt;

I never knew that. It explains a lot though as I tend to do a lot of saving lately with the blackouts of summer, and I have been frustrated by in-game messaging.

[Suicide Junkie]

41. When using a robo miner (or one of the other two robo units) in a field or planet with a rating of 250% to 300% the field will drop to 249% on the next turn. It also appears you only receive resources as if it were 250% and no more.



The following line in settings.txt is the cause. Whenever the resource value changes, it is checked against the maximum limits.


Maximum Planet Percent Value := 250

[Ed Kolis]

Well then how did the field or planet get so high in the first place?

[douglas]

Asteroids have a different maximum. The bug is that the planet maximum is checked instead of the asteroid maximum when an asteroid field loses value due to remote mining.

A separate problem is that the planet maximum is not checked when asteroids are converted to a planet, so it is possible for artificially created planets to have values above the limit. Whether the bug here is that the planet initially retains the high value or that it drops later when remote mined or affected by a VIP is a matter of personal opinion.

[Suicide Junkie]

55. Normal damage weapons seem to do 1/2 damage to shields against Weapon Platforms. A small WP with 1500 phased shield points requires 3180 damage or so to destroy (3000 for the shields, 180 for the MC and 4 phased shield generators in my test).

Its not that weapons do 1/2 damage to shields...

Its that shields count towards hull strength AND as shield points on units in general.

[PvK]

Alneyan reported that there are problems with certain types of diplomatic requests, so that if you request some things in some ways, an acceptance results in a refusal instead. Alneyan or someone familiar with this, could you provide details?

Another bug is that when fighter groups are fleeted with ships, the ships lose a whole bunch of extra supplies each turn.

There is reportedly another bug where certain kinds of stellar manipulations (e.g. star destruction) also can cause other objects (stars, planets) somewhere else to vanish from the game.

PvK

[Alneyan]

Demand Surrender, Demand Gift, Demand Tribute and possibly others do not work correctly: the recipient cannot accept those demands, both because the default message is a refusal, and because nothing accepts if you go ahead and accept. I think all other demands are not automatic, and those do not seem to be affected by the Demand problem. So yes, you can safely accept a Demand Surrender. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Oh, and Emergency Building lasts eleven turns, and not ten as advertised, if you do not turn it off yourself; I don't know if that would qualify as a bug though.

[Slick]

I can vouch that Demand Surrender works against the AI. When the conditions in the AI files (i.e. percent of score) are met, they will accept the demand and the surrender will be executed. Would this only apply to human vs. human?

edit: kant spell

[Alneyan]

Or perhaps, just perhaps, it only works for the human if the score condition is met? (Assuming all Empires have a default politics file) And maybe the same could go for the Demand Gift option?

Alternatively, it could just be that the AI surrenders on its own when asked to surrender, instead of accepting the demand of surrender (in this case, the surrender will be carried exactly the same, so the difference would be impossible to tell). Do you know if AIs can accept to make a gift to you?

[Slick]

I haven't demanded a gift from an AI in a long time because I think it's a cheap tactic, but I do remember it working; haven't tested all permutations of the demand request, though. I remember demanding (and getting) planets, ships, etc.

[douglas]

IIRC from the time I took 3 homeworlds by demanding tribute, none of the AI's sent back acceptance messages - their responses were all original gift/tribute proposals that just happened to include what I had demanded, and I had to send back my acceptance before getting them. None of my demands included "Any" items, so no counter proposal should have been necessary.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I have demanded surrender and got it. Not sure if it was with the latest patch.

[Ed Kolis]

Troop weapons with fire rates &gt;1 still fire every turn in ground combat.

(No one reported this as a bug yet? I think it's a bug http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif)

Also, if this really counts as a bug (it's a bit more of a feature request http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif), I don't think warheads carried by troops actually damage the carrying troop stack; they only damage the enemy. (Combined with firing every turn this makes "suicide" bombers very powerful in Eclipse Mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)

[Fyron]

Not so sure it is a bug as just the craptacular way that ground combat was implemeneted... Everything about it could be considered buggy. Ground combat ignores damage types, range, target types, and rate entirely.

[Q]

One more intel bug:
Intel sabotage and technological (research) sabotage will destroy randomly projects in the intel/research list.
Because usually you do not divide points but concentrate all points to the first projects in the list, there is a good chance, that a project is destroyed which was not yet started. Therefore the target empire looses nothing at all and the attacker wasted his intel points on the attack. The chance for this is greatest if the target empire fills the list of intel or research to the maximum of 12 projects.

[Ed Kolis]

This is probably a bug in Windows, but you think it might be possible to have the game explicitly hide the log window when a combat replay is displayed? In Windows it works just fine, but in Linux + WINE the log window stays on top, making combat replays almost useless http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Oh yeah, and maybe something about the minimize/alt-tab causing the game window to become really tiny when you restore it... again, probably a Windows bug that let the SE4 bug slip through unnoticed, but it does mess things up in Linux http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fyron]

Wouldn't that be a bug in Wine, not in Windows? Wine isn't properly handling the layering of the windows, it would seem...

Using the Windows GUI API is not a bug... It is different from the Linux GUI API, but this does not make it a bug.

[Will]

And #64. It's a bad one, confirmed with DarkAnt as reproducable.

There is a way to cause the game to partially crash, but not exit. An access violation error is thrown, and the game ends up showing you the empire of the last player on the list. Buttons do not work ("order" buttons are clickable, but do nothing), but you can use F2-F12 to get at the various info screens, can navigate the galaxy map, look at individual ships, etc. As you could imagine, this can quickly kill a multiplayer game.

I'm sending a bug report to Aaron with the specific details on how the crash occured. I think everyone understands my reasons for not publicly posting the details on how to reproduce this. DarkAnt and I hope it's just mod/shipset errors that are causing the problem, and it's not something that is exploitable in general. But it's better to be safe.

[PvK]

Another one: The way supplies are shared in a fleet is usually to try to fill up all of the ships with the least supplies first. This is good because it allows "tanker" ship designs to have more supplies than others, and refuel the others.

However it often occurs that it doesn't quite work this way, in unpredicatable ways, apparently depending on which ships are in the fleet. When this occurs, usually some of the larger ships (i.e. larger warships) don't get refuelled entirely, even though there are one or more tankers with plenty of supplies to share (much more than the larger warships which are left with 60-80% supply or something).

PvK

[Fyron]

If there are solar collectors involved, you have to make sure that there is enough storage to store all of the generated supplies before any fleet supply sharing is performed.

[PvK]

Sure, and the generation appears at the end of the turn, on the generating ships, which is ok.

What I just described though is a different problem. The sharing is unpredictable - usually it fills up all the low-supply ships to the same level or 100% full, but in some cases some ships don't get resupplied, or not filled, by the supply ships. In the cases I have seen, no supply generation was involved, only sharing.

PvK

[Ed Kolis]

Anyone ever notice that if you park a ship above a supply depot, it often ends up with something like 2980/3000 supplies? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Slick]

Ed Kolis said:
Anyone ever notice that if you park a ship above a supply depot, it often ends up with something like 2980/3000 supplies? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif



Yup. That would be Petty Officer 7th Class Schnotz making a midnight run to the ice cream machine again, just after refueling the ship...

[douglas]

That happens because the resupply is done before supply use for the last sector of movement.

[PvK]

Really? When I've seen that one, it has looked like much less than a whole sector's movement for even one ship.

PvK

[Ed Kolis]

Not really sure if this is a bug, but it seems really stupid and easy to fix... if ship A has a pursue/attack order against ship B, and ship B warps into an unknown system (unknown to the owner of ship A), then ship A will sit like an idiot at the warp point, saying "Duh, now where did he go???" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Emperor's Child]

Obviously, they don't ahve star charts for that area, just a big black area that says "here resides monsters."

[Wolfman77]

And beyond that you'll fall of the edge of the universe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

*Crusty old mariner voice* Don't laugh. I once knew a friend of a friend of a cousin whose sister-in-law once served on the same ship as a guy who said he heard a story in a bar once from this guy who said he'd seen the edge of the universe!

[Ed Kolis]

Invading troops on do not show up in planetary cargo in combat replays.
edit: Also, if a ship or base has the spaceyard ability and also the repair ability (as do all spaceyard ships in stock), the repair icon is not visible next to the ship whenever it should appear next to the spaceyard icon. It's really only noticeable in mods (where ships can have the spaceyard ability without the repair ability) but it is a bit confusing at times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Alneyan]

Before I forget again... You can mix breathers and not breathers on a planet, and new facilities will be built if they were queued before the non breathers arrived. So, if you have a moon with none breathers, and queue five facilities, they will get built even if you add oxygen breathers afterwards (the game won't complain about having 128/100 millions, and will be fine with having 5/1 facilities).

[Slaughtermeyer]

You can still click on the "create fleet" button in sectors that have bases even if there's no possibility of actually creating a fleet due to an absence of ships. This might not be a bug if it's possible to mod bases so that they can be added to fleets.

[Arkcon]

Alneyan said:
Before I forget again... You can mix breathers and not breathers on a planet, and new facilities will be built if they were queued before the non breathers arrived. So, if you have a moon with none breathers, and queue five facilities, they will get built even if you add oxygen breathers afterwards (the game won't complain about having 128/100 millions, and will be fine with having 5/1 facilities).



Umm. This was fixed. The queued buildings never get built, and their turns to go counter never gets shorter.

[Q]

Slaughtermeyer said:
You can still click on the "create fleet" button in sectors that have bases even if there's no possibility of actually creating a fleet due to an absence of ships. This might not be a bug if it's possible to mod bases so that they can be added to fleets.



It is not a mod of bases just a line in the settings.txt file that allows or prevents bases to join fleets. Therefore I would not consider this a bug.

[Alneyan]

Arkcon said:

Alneyan said:
Before I forget again... You can mix breathers and not breathers on a planet, and new facilities will be built if they were queued before the non breathers arrived. So, if you have a moon with none breathers, and queue five facilities, they will get built even if you add oxygen breathers afterwards (the game won't complain about having 128/100 millions, and will be fine with having 5/1 facilities).



Umm. This was fixed. The queued buildings never get built, and their turns to go counter never gets shorter.



Not quite it seems; I just ran an Hotseat test (simultaneous movement), and it looks like the results are somewhere in between what we wrote (I saw that in a Proportions game, so I assumed everything would be fine as delays went down just fine. Well, not really).

ETAs will go down just fine (at least on a 1/1 planet, though it is already building something going beyond its limit), but the facility cannot be constructed for lack of space. So, you could build a big facility that way, if you recall to remove all nonbreathers on the last turn. The game, of course, won't warn you when colonies are building things that cannot be completed.

[Atrocities]

I am pretty sure that the AI is not restricted to firing limitations. I just witnessed what I believe to be AI designed and controlled ships firing the null-space projector in each round of combat even though the weapon has a limit of firing once every three turns. This gave the AI a tremendous and unfair advantage over my ships. I watched it twice and could have sworn that I saw the designs firing it each turn. I will save the save game and combat turn and hopefuly someone will prove me wrong.

(For use with the expanded mod)

[Suicide Junkie]

You may have been seeing a ship with multiple guns at different states of reloading. One gun firing while the others are still reloading.

Either that, or a typo in your mod.
If I were to guess, its either one of the components in the family with a typo in the fire rate, or that you allowed upgrades from ship-NSPs to fighter or troop NSPs which fire faster.

The AI definitely *does* follow the reloading restrictions, or it would have been noticed on PBW years ago.

-

PS:
Having looked at the savegame you posted, and presuming you mean the last battle in the news list I can tell you what your problem is:
1) You have *no* defenses on those ships.

The enemy fleet fired NSPs in all three rounds of the post-contact engagement, yes. They fired them from different ships.
They *did* however, fire Polaron Beams lots, but PPBs reload in one turn. They did one of two things:
A) Knocked out your level 1 phased shielding in one or two hits, followed by lots and lots of hull hits.
B) Pierced your decent amounts of normal shields, doing hull hits right away.

Basically, your designs didn't stand a chance, and the enemy's NSPs really didn't help in that battle. They slaughtered you fair and square with their PPBs.

[Atrocities]

Thanks SJ, thats pretty much what I thought. I had to watch the replay several times to be sure the AI was not cheating by using the NSP more than they should be using them given the reload time of 3 turns.

[inigma]

4 bugs I found using unmodded 1.91:

1. I have animation turned on for system ship movement in an early game, and while the ship was still flying, I thought I could change my mind and order it to do something once it arrived at its destination. As it was flying I clicked for it to load something, except instead I got a memory error or some other error which made all my menu buttons usless afterwards and I had to restart the game. It only happened twice when I was ordering ships and pressing buttons during their animated system movements.

2. I can't really remember details, but I seem to have the oddest situations when saving my games and then reloading them. I do remember one where I saved a game after setting my research queue, then ending turn after turn after turn (about 5 turns) to see what the new tech was like. Then I reloaded my saved game, only to realize that those techs were now "discovered" in my saved game.

3. I realized early that I can exploit the AI by demanding gifts from weaker empires like the Phong and EEE. I was 2-3 times their score, and it was like taking candy from a baby. I tested it out, and realized I could ask for all their techs, relations, maps, planets, all in one fell swoop, ending their existence. Since "surrender by gifting" seems a little low, I've let them exist... for now. Perhaps its not a bug, and perhaps it has a meaning of a threat behind it ("hey, i'm bigger than you, so give me what I want or else...")

4. I receied a gift of a destroyer from the Phong, and it ran of gas halfway into my sector headed for my base space yard, moving at 1 sector per turn. So I grab a fully loaded tanker ship and fleet it up with the unit. The fleet has half supplies, but it still only moves 1 sector per turn. The destroyer still shows empty. This only happens when I have units that run out of gas entirely, as other Phong destroyers I've accepted were 1 turn short of running out of gas, and they fleeted up fine with my tankers and kept their full movement.

[Ed Kolis]

On #4, you have to wait a turn for the fuel to actually transfer from one ship to the other; then the fleet should start moving normally again.

[inigma]

Would I have to wait and not move, or could the fleet move and then the next turn all ships would be supplied?

According my experience, when I moved the ships together, I checked two turns later to figure out why they were moving so slow, and the destroyer still had 0 supplies, but the fleet showed half of them had been used.

[Ed Kolis]

The fleet should be able to move 1 square and then move normally; I'm not sure why the destroyer still has 0 supplies - unless perhaps all its engines and supply bays were damaged?

[Slick]

A ship which "kills" another ship by being rammed by the other ship and surviving receives no experience.

[Slick]

On the Transfer Cargo screen, you can't right-click on any of the cargo to see its detail screen. You should be able to do this. This is especially frustrating on captured planets where you can't always tell which unit is the one you want to move using its name alone. [Unless you have cracked your opponent's naming convention http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif ... but still]

[Alneyan]

Or, for that matter, those times when you take over someone's else Empire. It's so fun figuring out what in the nine hells is a "T-240-b16" troop design, and whether it is that one or the "T-230-b12" that comes equipped with weapons.

[Fyron]

Slick said:
[Unless you have cracked your opponent's naming convention http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif ... but still]

Random names from a huge list are the best. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Slick]

Imperator Fyron said:

Slick said:
[Unless you have cracked your opponent's naming convention http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif ... but still]

Random names from a huge list are the best. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Not for everyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fyron]

35. Ships armed with modded weapons which can only target other ships will not move away from planets, fighters, etc. They can not fire on these targets, so they just mill about. This can be especially bad if there is an enemy ship or two on the other side of a planet. Your ships will advance and destroy it, but then they will just sit in place, even when in the range of weapon platforms on the planet.



This shall henceforth become:

Ships armed with modded weapons which can only target other ships will sometimes choose a planet as their target as the result from evaluating target priorities of their design strategy. Since they can not target the planet with their weapons, they mill about, moving one square in a random direction each turn. The same can happen with weapons that only target fighters, drones or satellites.

This can result in very bad behavior. If there are armed stations orbiting the planet, your ships might choose them as their target. They move in and destroy them. Now, the only target left is the planet, which they can not target. Thus, they mill about, oblivious to the fact that weapon platforms on the planet are obliterating them.

Using a strategy which removes planets as a target type (don't fire on) can help ameliorate this bug, but it should not be necessary. The target selection algorithm should take valid target types of the ship's weapon into account.

[Slick]

I just experienced the following:

- I had a ship (BB) with an Emergency Propulsion Pod V, Spaceyard III, and Stealth Armor III, among other components.

- Simultaneous movement. I cloaked the ship, "used" the EPP and ordered a movement which was &gt; the total movement including bonus from the EPP.

- On the next turn, I checked out the ship. It was still cloaked (spaceyard icon changed to repair icon as expected), but the EPP was still "destroyed". i.e. it wasn't repaired by the spaceyard.

Conclusion: Bug. An EPP (see also Emergency Suppy Pod) is supposed to be repaired by a spaceyard, but it won't be repaired if the SY is on a cloaked ship because the SY is treated like a repair bay instead of a SY.

[douglas]

I'd consider that to be a logical consequence of the intended feature that space yards can't build while cloaked.

Realistically, space yards can't build while cloaked because getting the necessary materials to them is either impossible or would negate the whole point of the cloak, and repairing emergency components requires a similar input of materials the space yard would not have on hand.

[Baron Munchausen]

Slick said:
I just experienced the following:

- I had a ship (BB) with an Emergency Propulsion Pod V, Spaceyard III, and Stealth Armor III, among other components.

- Simultaneous movement. I cloaked the ship, "used" the EPP and ordered a movement which was &gt; the total movement including bonus from the EPP.

- On the next turn, I checked out the ship. It was still cloaked (spaceyard icon changed to repair icon as expected), but the EPP was still "destroyed". i.e. it wasn't repaired by the spaceyard.

Conclusion: Bug. An EPP (see also Emergency Suppy Pod) is supposed to be repaired by a spaceyard, but it won't be repaired if the SY is on a cloaked ship because the SY is treated like a repair bay instead of a SY.



Looks like you had a dyslexia attack there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think you mean it is treated like a space yard instead of like a repair bay since repair bays do in fact work while cloaked. It would be nice if repair by SYs was allowed while cloaked. It's only consistent with repair bays working while cloaked.

[Atrocities]

Two possible bugs..

1. Sometimes the Log Report does not show up after a turn has been processed. (FTR, the ALL tab is selected)

2. During tactical combat, if its your turn and you choose to "Resolved Combat" you will loose your turn. The Game will automatically skip your turn. (So make your turn manually first then set to "Resolve Combat".

[Suicide Junkie]

Baron Munchausen said:

Slick said:
I just experienced the following:

- I had a ship (BB) with an Emergency Propulsion Pod V, Spaceyard III, and Stealth Armor III, among other components.

- Simultaneous movement. I cloaked the ship, "used" the EPP and ordered a movement which was &gt; the total movement including bonus from the EPP.

- On the next turn, I checked out the ship. It was still cloaked (spaceyard icon changed to repair icon as expected), but the EPP was still "destroyed". i.e. it wasn't repaired by the spaceyard.

Conclusion: Bug. An EPP (see also Emergency Suppy Pod) is supposed to be repaired by a spaceyard, but it won't be repaired if the SY is on a cloaked ship because the SY is treated like a repair bay instead of a SY.



Looks like you had a dyslexia attack there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think you mean it is treated like a space yard instead of like a repair bay since repair bays do in fact work while cloaked. It would be nice if repair by SYs was allowed while cloaked. It's only consistent with repair bays working while cloaked.



Actually, it loses its SY abilities while cloaked, leaving only the repair abilities.
It thus acts like a mere repair bay while cloaked.

[Baron Munchausen]

But what he says is that it didn't repair while it was cloaked.

[douglas]

More specifically, it did not repair a component that can only be repaired at a space yard. I do not consider this a bug.

[Slick]

Baron Munchausen said:

Slick said:
I just experienced the following:

- I had a ship (BB) with an Emergency Propulsion Pod V, Spaceyard III, and Stealth Armor III, among other components.

- Simultaneous movement. I cloaked the ship, "used" the EPP and ordered a movement which was &gt; the total movement including bonus from the EPP.

- On the next turn, I checked out the ship. It was still cloaked (spaceyard icon changed to repair icon as expected), but the EPP was still "destroyed". i.e. it wasn't repaired by the spaceyard.

Conclusion: Bug. An EPP (see also Emergency Suppy Pod) is supposed to be repaired by a spaceyard, but it won't be repaired if the SY is on a cloaked ship because the SY is treated like a repair bay instead of a SY.



Looks like you had a dyslexia attack there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think you mean it is treated like a space yard instead of like a repair bay since repair bays do in fact work while cloaked. It would be nice if repair by SYs was allowed while cloaked. It's only consistent with repair bays working while cloaked.



I said it the way I meant it. I understand the way cloaked spaceyards work. Maybe it is just a wording thing, but from history.txt:


Version 1.42:
...
14. Changed - You cannot repair an Emergency Propulsion Pod or an Emergency Resupply Pod without a space yard being present.
...

Either the intent was as written above, in which case the EPP should be repaired, or the intent was as I observed, in which case the wording above is inaccurate and should read "...without an uncloaked space yard being present."