OT - How would sc-fi ships do in battle against each other? [Archive]

narf poit chez BOOM

February 17th, 2004, 09:48 PM

would a galaxy class beat a star destoyer? would a star destroyer beat a david weber SD(P)?

any and all sci-fi ships welcome. please be aware, though, that there really isn't much point in bringing, say, a fully completed death star into it, since we all know they fall like flies to fighter's and corvettes but blow up everything else. unless you bring in a DW planatiod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

this is an invitation to discussion, not a retry at my battle thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ragnarok

February 17th, 2004, 10:05 PM

I think Voyager would kick everyones butts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif That ship was destroyed so many times but managed to come back its not even funny. They began the journey with like 300 crew total and throughout the 7 year running they lost more then that in red shirts alone and they still had like 200 or so alive when they made it back to earth! Then to single handily beat the Borg, 8472, Kazon, etc, etc. That ship was unstoppable!

Nocturnal

February 17th, 2004, 10:13 PM

It's because of their secret weapon, the infamous and unstoppable Plot Device, capable of dramatically altering all of the very laws of the universe in unbelievable ways.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 17th, 2004, 10:18 PM

true, true. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

but, going by it's specs and there stated purposes, a half-blown up defiant should be able to blow up voyager. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

admittadly, i know very little about there specs.

[ February 17, 2004, 20:24: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

geoschmo

February 17th, 2004, 10:25 PM

Here's a good fan fiction take on the idea of a Federation versus Empire war.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Fanfic/Conquest/index.html

It's long, but it's a good read.

Phoenix-D

February 17th, 2004, 10:49 PM

Well, on the high end of the scale a DW planetoid would make mince meat of the Death Star; its shields are designed to resist the gravitronic missiles it fires, which are fully capable of destroying planets. And its energy weapons are nastier than that..

Lower down I'd say a SD(P) would kill a Star Destroyer, though I don't know enough about em to say if a regular SD could do the job or not. SD(P)s are just so much overkill its not likely the Star Destroyer would ever get in range.

gregebowman

February 17th, 2004, 11:10 PM

Over the years, I've played a what-if in my mind as far as a star destroyer and any one of the Enterprises. First of all, the Enterprise could outrun anything in the Star Wars universe. A star destroyer and the Millenium Falcon might get up to light speed, but we all know that any ship from the Star Trek universe could go to warp 9.99, which is 9.99 the speed of light cubed. NOw, a star destroyer would definitly have more firepower. Hell, the things basically a huge weapons platform with engines. But would those weapons breech the Enterprise's shields? I'm not sure. I read something a long time ago that the star destroyer's weapons are lasers, which would have no effect on the Enterprise's shields. But would enough of those lasers effect those shields? I'm not up on the specs of the two ships. But it's a battle I'd love to see.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 17th, 2004, 11:38 PM

as i understand it, the reason a ST laser wouldn't penatrate enterprise's sheilds is because there to weak. however, aren't SW lasers more powerfull?

Intimidator

February 17th, 2004, 11:47 PM

Hi guys,

Take a look a this site, all the specifics of SW and ST vessels. still under construction but it is a start !! (The Empire / The Federation and the Cardasians)

http://www.furryconflict.com/tech/technopedia/starships_and_space_stations.html

Intimidator

Fyron

February 18th, 2004, 12:27 AM

SW laser weapons have huge amounts of energy behind them. ST shields would not stop them very effectively. The Enterprise was only immune to some lasers used by races with small ships. Their lasers were very low power (in comparison to what SW ships use, at least).

Thermodyne

February 18th, 2004, 01:28 AM

One on one the Borg cube kills them all.

but then we would end up with something like Darth Borg. Now that I think about it, the SW guys were well on the way to being borg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 01:36 AM

DW planatiod versus borg cube?

the fifth empire had 99,999 or thereabouts of those things. i say they would have wiped the floor with the borg, especially once they perfected those super-missiles.

Gryphin

February 18th, 2004, 01:56 AM

It depends on the crew. SG1 consistantly destroys Mother Ships.
Does that count?

General Woundwort

February 18th, 2004, 01:59 AM

Grudge-match.com has done some interesting match-ups in the past, good for laughs if nothing else...

USS Enterprise vs. the Death Star (http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ds-enterprise.shtml)

Borg Cube vs. "Independence Day" mothership (http://www.grudge-match.com/History/borg-id4.shtml)

Bablyon 5 vs. DS9 (http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ds9-babylon5.shtml)

USS Voyager vs. Battlestar Galactica (http://www.grudge-match.com/History/galactica_voyager.shtml)

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 02:31 AM

the enterprise would destroy the death star by the end of the episode. I, proffeser Narf, will now demonstrate why:

Death Star - Big, Evil Thing Of Death.
Number Of Big, Evil Things Of Death the Enterprise has blown up - I've lost count.

This has been a lesson from proffeser Narf.

Gryphin

February 18th, 2004, 02:35 AM

I say it is up to the crew. If you swap out the crews of the ships the results would be the opposite.

Deathstalker

February 18th, 2004, 02:59 AM

Heh, I'd say the Argo (or Yamamoto...) would kick all thier collective butts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And the Enterprise/Deathstar thing has been disproven by many a Trek geek as the Enterprise is made of an alloy that is 'immune to laser fire' (according to many a published tech manual...)...so the Deathstar's TurboLASER batteries would do absolutely nothing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

And to the ultimate sci-fi ship I'd have to say either Unicron or the SDF of Robo-Tech fame... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 18, 2004, 01:00: Message edited by: Deathstalker ]

Fyron

February 18th, 2004, 03:01 AM

That is like saying a bullet proof vest is immune to all bullets because it can stop some of them. How about a big bullet, with tons of force behind it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Now compare a piddly laser to the very high powered ones used by SDs and such... the ST ships would have no special immunity to such lasers, and certainly not to the Death Star's weaponry.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by Deathstalker:
Heh, I'd say the Argo (or Yamamoto...) would kick all thier collective butts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
which sci-fi universe do those come from?

ok, as much as i like trek, i'd have to say that, realistically, the death star would crush the enterprise. the only thing the enterprise has on it's side is a franchise and technobabble. which would allow the enterprise to crush the death star. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

how about we run down the list from biggest to smallest. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

i say a David Weber planetiod would win >any< battle. as someone else said, gravatonic warheads which can blow a >planet< apart, antimatter warheads, massive energy weapons which cause any material they encounter to instantly fission, crew of up to 250000! so those death-star storm-troopers can board any time and get blown up by troops in REAL powered armor, grav guns, hyper-ray guns which make things disapear, plasma guns, plasma grenades, hyper grenades, not to mention fifth emperium light, meduim and heavy tanks and any one of those >light< tanks could probably take on the whole military of today's earth and win! and this isn't counting their parasite warships, one of which did battle with an entire system defence system! admitadly, it was civilian built, cobbled together and was designed to keep out plague ships, but still!

I'm willing to concede that it needent be Dahak, so the other ship/base/whatever wouldn't have to face a fully >senteint< warship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

anybody care to counter that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

did i mention multi-dimensional shields, computer fold-space communicater uplinks in the crew's brains and that it can achieve 70% of light speed, about 800 times light-speed under E-drive(don't ask me to spell it) and several thousand under hyper-drive? and that it's E-drive, which relies on converging black holes, can cause a minuture super-nove if their near a sun? or the cloaking system? admittadly, once they get within a few light-minutes of another >planatiod< they can be detected, but a borg cube, death star or ID4 mothership would be bLasted apart before they could even get close enough to see it, much less fire at it, since the missile's have a range of what? 17 light-minutes? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 18, 2004, 01:33: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 06:26 AM

no contenders? to bad. i guess it comes down to it or the magog worldship...and the worldship would have to get close enough to put unarmored and almost unarmed troops on board. it's toast.

i don't know how the Electronic Warfare capabilities would stack up.

for the death star/borg cube/ID4 mothership catagory, i say a DW Superdreadnought (Pod) is in the same catagory. i'm not sure how many missiles it could fire, but i think it's a total of 700, fired from pods rolled out the back of the ship. true, it's way out of the death star's tonnage at only 8 million tonnes, but what Honer Harrington would do is bombard the thing with missiles from a measly 2LM away, well within a MDM's 3LM range. which can go to 9LM at half-acceleration. so, she bLasts all the main guns to smitherens. after that, i admit it would take a long time to blow up a death star, even with an SD's guns, and it might come down to wether she can blow a big enough hole to reach the reacter before the smaller guns blow her ship up. but all that assume's there's no fighters. sigh. unless it has those new bow and stern sidewalls and she keeps them up to blow aways the fighters, there's no chance. and that would give the death star time to come in range.

anyone else get the idea i think DW's ships are the coolest? at least technically. Enterprise is the only competition.

Borg cube: ok, a borg cube isn't out of the weight range of a 4km long ship. in fact, i think the SD(P) may be larger. i think the SD(P) has a huge range advantage still, but even a manty SD(P) can only accelerate at i think 450g's. so, without bow and sternwalls, it would come down to wether the SD(P) could blow apart the borg cube before it came in range to shoot at the bow or the stern of the SD(P) or adapted. atvantage: Borg. definitaly. with bow and sternwalls, it would come down to wether the borg could adapt. i think that ones even. they might be able to adapt their shots to deal with the sidewalls, which are just focused gravity fields. can't remember if there in the 100's of g's catagory or the 1,000's of g's catagory.

ID4 mothership: ok, it's huge. about the length of the moon. i'd guess it would go about the same as the death star.

so, ok, it isn't quite up to the weight class, but it's definitly the plucky short guy. but i think the borg might be in that catagory to.

[ February 18, 2004, 04:27: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

QuarianRex

February 18th, 2004, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
First of all, the Enterprise could outrun anything in the Star Wars universe. A star destroyer and the Millenium Falcon might get up to light speed, but we all know that any ship from the Star Trek universe could go to warp 9.99, which is 9.99 the speed of light cubed. Where on earth did you get this idea? SW ships are much, much faster than trek ships. Voyager found itself on the other side of the galaxy and it was a 75 year trip home. Han Solo went from Tatooine to alderan in @three weeks. The republic (and then the empire) spaned an entire galaxy and ships routinely travelled its span without the need for generation ships. Propulsion tech in Star Wars is therefore vastly superior to that of trek. Don't get confused by the non-technical references to "lightspeed" and "lasers". These are just colloquialisms of a 70's space opera. Judge the tech by what it does, not by what it it's called.

Fyron

February 18th, 2004, 09:28 AM

And, of course, the Rebel Fleet gathered together well outside the galaxy, and we could see the spiral arms and all quite nicely. I think that was SW VI... or was it V?

Imperial

February 18th, 2004, 09:33 AM

the Yamato/Argo is from the Japanese anime cartoon Known in the U.S. as Starblazers. Id like to see a mock up of what a Zentradi(SP?) Flagship (from Robotech/Macross) can do too--those ships were nasty in the cartoon.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 09:37 AM

Where on earth did you get this idea? SW ships are much, much faster than trek ships. Voyager found itself on the other side of the galaxy and it was a 75 year trip home. Han Solo went from Tatooine to alderan in @three weeks. The republic (and then the empire) spaned an entire galaxy and ships routinely travelled its span without the need for generation ships. Propulsion tech in Star Wars is therefore vastly superior to that of trek. Don't get confused by the non-technical references to "lightspeed" and "lasers". These are just colloquialisms of a 70's space opera. Judge the tech by what it does, not by what it it's called.
i think he means the slower than light drive. in which case, the ST ships are faster.

QuarianRex

February 18th, 2004, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
i think he means the slower than light drive. in which case, the ST ships are faster. He was talking about Warp drives, not impulse. As far as slower than light drives go I've seen nothing to indicate that impulse is faster. Have you seen the dogfights (of lack thereof) in trek. Even looking at shuttles/runabouts vs. SW fighters (craft that are similar enough to be compared) the trek craft are rediculously ponderous. Again, the speed edge has to go to SW.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 10:19 AM

well, the tech manuals, as far as i know, say different. this is only what i've heard. and SW had a higher effects budget porportionally, i think.

gregebowman

February 18th, 2004, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by QuarianRex:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
i think he means the slower than light drive. in which case, the ST ships are faster. He was talking about Warp drives, not impulse. As far as slower than light drives go I've seen nothing to indicate that impulse is faster. Have you seen the dogfights (of lack thereof) in trek. Even looking at shuttles/runabouts vs. SW fighters (craft that are similar enough to be compared) the trek craft are rediculously ponderous. Again, the speed edge has to go to SW. <hr /></blockquote>I'm talking about speed. Sure, SW ships can go into hyperdrive, which has been over looked in the ST universe. Now, nothing I've read or seen says anything about hypderdrive being faster than a Warp 9 vessel. Maybe a SW ship may reach their destination before a ST ship, but since we are talking about science FICTION!, that might not be true, depending on the distance involved. Basically what I was trying to say is that if it came to a ST ship wanting to get the heck out of Dodge while it's getting a beating from a SW ship, then it can go like a bat out of hell. Like I said above, if it came to a race, I just don't know who would win.

Ruatha

February 18th, 2004, 04:00 PM

I read somewhere that G Lucas said that Enterprise could take out the entire empire fleet single handed, it was an interview a few years back.
I'm not saying it's so, only what I read, he had some arguments for it aswell.
Will try to look up a reference.

[ February 18, 2004, 14:03: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

geoschmo

February 18th, 2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Now, nothing I've read or seen says anything about hypderdrive being faster than a Warp 9 vessel.The republic at it's height, and the empire after it spanned the galaxy. The federation is a little collection of planets in a small fraction of the Alpha quadrant. Assuming the SW galaxy is roughly the same size as the Milky Way, which we don't really know of course, hyperdrive would have to be orders of magnitude faster then warp drive. Travel between Corsucant and the remotest parts of the galaxy takes weeks. While Voyager was looking at several decades to make it home running flat out at top warp speed.

[ February 18, 2004, 14:09: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

dogscoff

February 18th, 2004, 04:46 PM

Personally I'd be putting my money on a Culture GSV or GCU. As well as being veryvery big, insanely fast/ powerful/ well armed and unimaginably clever, they have a wicked sense of humour.

An interesting quote I came across:
"Nahhh, If the Culture is the USA, the Homomdan Empire is the USSR. The Galactic Empire is the mugger on the corner of Fifth and Main and the UFP is the bum he's curb stomping." form http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8191

Shrapnel

February 18th, 2004, 06:57 PM

Just in regards to which ships are faster, ST or SW's, I believe the answer would be both...from a certain point of view http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

When you see the SW's vessels jumping from one side of the galaxy to the other with Hyperdrive engines, you have to admint that the Hyperdrive engine is faster than Warp, considering travelling from one side of the galaxy to the other. ST ships are unable to do this.

That being said, ST ships can travel at warp, and are capable of using warp propulsion even during battle. Thus in real space, ST ships would have a speed and manuverability advantage over SW's vessels, due to ability to reach faster than light speeds locally.

I hope this make sense!

Loser

February 18th, 2004, 07:05 PM

geoschmo

February 18th, 2004, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Shrapnel:
That being said, ST ships can travel at warp, and are capable of using warp propulsion even during battle. Thus in real space, ST ships would have a speed and manuverability advantage over SW's vessels, due to ability to reach faster than light speeds locally.I'm not sure this would translate to an advantage in combat. ST vessels can engage in combat at warp speed with other vessels going warp speed. I don't remember ever seeing an example of a ship travelling at warp firing on a ship travelling at impulse. There have been a couple examples of ships doing warp manuvers in combat for fractions of a second to suprise an enemy (as in the Picard manuver) but they always make a point of how hard on teh engines this is supposed to be. Only something to be done in cases of extreme emergency. Typically you'd need to match speed with your opponent in order to effectively engage them. Consider how difficult it was for the early jet fighters to engage prop driven enemies in late WWII and Korea. A big speed advantage is great for getting to or away from a fight, but in combat, not so much.

gregebowman

February 18th, 2004, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gregebowman:
Now, nothing I've read or seen says anything about hypderdrive being faster than a Warp 9 vessel.The republic at it's height, and the empire after it spanned the galaxy. The federation is a little collection of planets in a small fraction of the Alpha quadrant. Assuming the SW galaxy is roughly the same size as the Milky Way, which we don't really know of course, hyperdrive would have to be orders of magnitude faster then warp drive. Travel between Corsucant and the remotest parts of the galaxy takes weeks. While Voyager was looking at several decades to make it home running flat out at top warp speed. <hr /></blockquote>Looking at it from that angle, I can see your point. But remember, the SW ships have to follow pre-programmed routes, which must have taken hundreds of years to accumulate as the Old Republic was expanding and discovering new systems. On the other hand, the ST ship can go in almost any direction at almost a drop of the hat.

rextorres

February 18th, 2004, 08:27 PM

Hyperdrive seems like the equivalent of transwarp technology employed by the Borg.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Personally I'd be putting my money on a Culture GSV or GCU. As well as being veryvery big, insanely fast/ powerful/ well armed and unimaginably clever, they have a wicked sense of humour.

An interesting quote I came across:
"Nahhh, If the Culture is the USA, the Homomdan Empire is the USSR. The Galactic Empire is the mugger on the corner of Fifth and Main and the UFP is the bum he's curb stomping." form http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8191 i don't know much about them. i only read 1.3 culure novels. could they stack up against DW's planatiod's?

*picks up a mic*

Ladies And Gentlemen, Do We Have A Contender?

Fyron

February 18th, 2004, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gregebowman:
Now, nothing I've read or seen says anything about hypderdrive being faster than a Warp 9 vessel.The republic at it's height, and the empire after it spanned the galaxy. The federation is a little collection of planets in a small fraction of the Alpha quadrant. Assuming the SW galaxy is roughly the same size as the Milky Way, which we don't really know of course, hyperdrive would have to be orders of magnitude faster then warp drive. Travel between Corsucant and the remotest parts of the galaxy takes weeks. While Voyager was looking at several decades to make it home running flat out at top warp speed. <hr /></blockquote>Looking at it from that angle, I can see your point. But remember, the SW ships have to follow pre-programmed routes, which must have taken hundreds of years to accumulate as the Old Republic was expanding and discovering new systems. On the other hand, the ST ship can go in almost any direction at almost a drop of the hat. <hr /></blockquote>That isn't quite true. Nothing says you can't use a hyperdrive route that is not pre-programmed. It is just dangerous flying through stars and such, so you use a galaxy map to avoid them. ST handles this by saying that ships moving at warp speed just go through everything that is not going at warp speed or some such technobabble.

Suicide Junkie

February 18th, 2004, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gregebowman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gregebowman:
Now, nothing I've read or seen says anything about hypderdrive being faster than a Warp 9 vessel.The republic at it's height, and the empire after it spanned the galaxy. The federation is a little collection of planets in a small fraction of the Alpha quadrant. Assuming the SW galaxy is roughly the same size as the Milky Way, which we don't really know of course, hyperdrive would have to be orders of magnitude faster then warp drive. Travel between Corsucant and the remotest parts of the galaxy takes weeks. While Voyager was looking at several decades to make it home running flat out at top warp speed. <hr /></blockquote>Looking at it from that angle, I can see your point. But remember, the SW ships have to follow pre-programmed routes, which must have taken hundreds of years to accumulate as the Old Republic was expanding and discovering new systems. On the other hand, the ST ship can go in almost any direction at almost a drop of the hat. <hr /></blockquote>That isn't quite true. Nothing says you can't use a hyperdrive route that is not pre-programmed. It is just dangerous flying through stars and such, so you use a galaxy map to avoid them. ST handles this by saying that ships moving at warp speed just go through everything that is not going at warp speed or some such technobabble. <hr /></blockquote>ST has those giant deflector dishes to sweep junk out of the way when travelling real fast. Torpedoes can even be fired at FTL speeds, though energy weapons can't.

gregebowman

February 18th, 2004, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dogscoff:
Personally I'd be putting my money on a Culture GSV or GCU. As well as being veryvery big, insanely fast/ powerful/ well armed and unimaginably clever, they have a wicked sense of humour.

An interesting quote I came across:
"Nahhh, If the Culture is the USA, the Homomdan Empire is the USSR. The Galactic Empire is the mugger on the corner of Fifth and Main and the UFP is the bum he's curb stomping." form http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8191 i don't know much about them. i only read 1.3 culure novels. could they stack up against DW's planatiod's?

*picks up a mic*

Ladies And Gentlemen, Do We Have A Contender? <hr /></blockquote>Obviously I've missed reading a few books in the past. Who or what is The Culture? Which series can I find it in, and who was the author? I've only got one Honor Harrington book, and I'll wait until I get the whole series before reading that.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 11:30 PM

Grege, go to www.baen.com (http://www.baen.com) . they've got a websubscription thing where you can get the Honer e-books for like $9-10 canadian, including tax. plus, the first two Honer books are up on their free library, where you can read both books, the whole of both books, for >free<.

[ February 18, 2004, 21:31: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

gregebowman

February 18th, 2004, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
Grege, go to www.baen.com (http://www.baen.com) . they've got a websubscription thing where you can get the Honer e-books for like $9-10 canadian, including tax. plus, the first two Honer books are up on their free library, where you can read both books, the whole of both books, for >free<. Ok, thanks for the info. I was hoping on info on this Culture, but that link was very interesting. But this old book store I found has most of the HH books there, and I plan on getting them all soon. Any they don't have, I'll check out that website.

dogscoff

February 19th, 2004, 12:30 AM

Greg- The Culture author is Iain M Banks. Imho you won't read better scifi anywhere. Go out and grab yourself a copy of any of his Culture novels (he has published other books as Iain Banks- without the 'M') - you can read them in any order.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 19th, 2004, 12:57 AM

well, it's only me, but i got bored and quit.

General Woundwort

February 19th, 2004, 02:46 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Here's a good fan fiction take on the idea of a Federation versus Empire war.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Fanfic/Conquest/index.html

It's long, but it's a good read. I agree. I loved Q's retort to Picard in chapter 5...

"Oh so prickly, Mon Capitaine! You should really learn to relax - maybe if you weren't so tense, you would still have your hair!"That ranks right up there with (to Riker) "You're so stolid! You were never this way before the beard!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

February 19th, 2004, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
ST has those giant deflector dishes to sweep junk out of the way when travelling real fast. Torpedoes can even be fired at FTL speeds, though energy weapons can't. So they sweep stars and planets out of the way? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

gregebowman

February 19th, 2004, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
ST has those giant deflector dishes to sweep junk out of the way when travelling real fast. Torpedoes can even be fired at FTL speeds, though energy weapons can't. So they sweep stars and planets out of the way? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif <hr /></blockquote>No, but they get rid of all those micro-asteroids and other small stuff that would harm any of our current spacecraft. You still need to navigate around star and planets and other space objects, like black holes, but it seems to take quicker for a ST ship to plot a course than it would a SW ship, who has to wait for the computer to plot the hyperspace coordinates before a ship can go through.

gregebowman

February 19th, 2004, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by dogscoff:
Greg- The Culture author is Iain M Banks. Imho you won't read better scifi anywhere. Go out and grab yourself a copy of any of his Culture novels (he has published other books as Iain Banks- without the 'M') - you can read them in any order. Thanks. I plan on going to that bookstore today during lunch. I'll check to see if they have some of his books.

Fyron

February 19th, 2004, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by gregebowman:
No, but they get rid of all those micro-asteroids and other small stuff that would harm any of our current spacecraft. You still need to navigate around star and planets and other space objects, like black holes, but it seems to take quicker for a ST ship to plot a course than it would a SW ship, who has to wait for the computer to plot the hyperspace coordinates before a ship can go through. I have heard in a number of ST episodes in different series that ships traveling at warp speed don't actually interact with anything in "real space" and just pass right through them...

Ragnarok

February 19th, 2004, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I have heard in a number of ST episodes in different series that ships traveling at warp speed don't actually interact with anything in "real space" and just pass right through them... That is what I have heard as well. Except for one minor detail; they cannot pass through the items in real space. They must still plot a course that would direct them around these objects. Just because they are in warp does not make them immune to running into things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

February 19th, 2004, 06:48 PM

There was one episode about some black ops phasing cloak thingy that allowed the ship to pass through regular matter...
The ship ended up stuck halfway inside some asteroid after an accident, and the Romulans were upset about the treaty violations implied by the existence of the ship as I recall.

Ragnarok

February 19th, 2004, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
There was one episode about some black ops phasing cloak thingy that allowed the ship to pass through regular matter...
The ship ended up stuck halfway inside some asteroid after an accident, and the Romulans were upset about the treaty violations implied by the existence of the ship as I recall. Yeah, that was a good episode. The Enterprise ended up having to use the cloak itself because the Romulans had closed the shaft that they used to get inside the asteroid.
The accident was that the crew had been killed for some reason and the cloak was still in effect, the ship just kept drifting until it was half way through a giant asteroid and then the cloak failed, trapping the ship inside.

The Federation never had a treaty with the Romulans regarding cloaking technology, correct? Wasn't it some other small race on a single planet that didn't want the Federation to use this technology for some reason so they made a treaty over it? I seem to recall an episode that mentioned it breifly, perhaps it was this very episode. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ February 19, 2004, 16:56: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

gregebowman

February 19th, 2004, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
There was one episode about some black ops phasing cloak thingy that allowed the ship to pass through regular matter...
The ship ended up stuck halfway inside some asteroid after an accident, and the Romulans were upset about the treaty violations implied by the existence of the ship as I recall. Yeah, that was a good episode. The Enterprise ended up having to use the cloak itself because the Romulans had closed the shaft that they used to get inside the asteroid.
The accident was that the crew had been killed for some reason and the cloak was still in effect, the ship just kept drifting until it was half way through a giant asteroid and then the cloak failed, trapping the ship inside.

The Federation never had a treaty with the Romulans regarding cloaking technology, correct? Wasn't it some other small race on a single planet that didn't want the Federation to use this technology for some reason so they made a treaty over it? I seem to recall an episode that mentioned it breifly, perhaps it was this very episode. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>IIRC, the Federation did have some sort of treaty with the Romulans regarding cloaking devices. I don't remember if they went into detail about what would happen, but apparently the Romulans wanted to make sure they were the only ones that did have cloaking devices. It isn't canon, but apparently the cloaking device Kirk stole either couldn't be modified or was destroyed somehow. I read that in one of the novels years ago, so I'm hazy on the details.

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro

February 19th, 2004, 08:23 PM

O.K. I thought I'd just jot down some ideas.

Strategic Speed Winner: Star Wars ships
Tactical Speed Winner : Star Trek ships
Weaponry vs. Planets,slow ships: Death Star
Weaponry vs. faster ships: Star Trek

note: This means Star Wars weapons are light speed weapons and Star Trek phaser,torps are Faster Than Light Weapons.

Close In Combat Winner: Star Wars Fighters
Shielding Winner: (sorry) Star Trek.
(not too impressed when an A wing fighter can Kamikaze a Super Dreadnought and then the Super Dreadnought can ram the Death Star.)
Jungle/Forest Warfare: Ewoks

Well if I was in command of the Enterprise, I'd standoff at long range plotting warp speed maneuvors around the death star. Hit and run raids with phasers. If fighter swarms were heading my way, I'd launch full spread of photon torps. By then my attention would be lacking and I'd retire to my quarters where Princess Leia, a green Orion Slave Girl, and a new female Borg 1of69 will be waiting for me with bottles of Romulan Ale and Tranya.

PvK

February 19th, 2004, 09:32 PM

Original series Star Trek and Star Fleet Battles have battles at high warp speed, many times greater than the speed of light. If in the same universe with people that can only fight sub-light, the sub-light folks would have no chance of even knowing what was going on. Nevertheless, most actions are settled by fist-fight involving the commanding officers. Captain Kirk is just about the best brawler... main qualification for command in the butch era of Star Fleet.

(In the films and then TNG, along with losing most of the butch aspect, Star Trek also seems to have forgotten how to fight effectively at warp speed. Though, more often, each writer just seems to be making stuff up with little attempt to be consistent.)

Of course, this is just a more extreme example of the silliness of this age-old discussion. Since most sci-fi actually isn't internally constent, let alone compatible with science, there is little way to put them in a meaningful face-off with each other.

PvK

Wardad

February 19th, 2004, 09:37 PM

Beams? Missiles? Bombs? BAH!!!

How about clouds of nano dissasemblers?
Or metal eating organisms worse than rust?
Or super strong strings one atom wide that slice through anything?

narf poit chez BOOM

February 19th, 2004, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Wardad:
Beams? Missiles? Bombs? BAH!!!

How about clouds of nano dissasemblers?
Or metal eating organisms worse than rust?
Or super strong strings one atom wide that slice through anything? 1) where would they get there power from? seems to me you'd just have to run a bit until there out.
2) again, space. little to provide power.
3) well, maybe if they where fired. but most sci-fi ships have technobabble sheilds which sweep little stuff away and would probably sweep the strings.

gregebowman

February 19th, 2004, 10:45 PM

How would a ST ship get in the SW universe? I couldn't imagine this until after TNG came one and they introduced us to the Traveller. What if Picard's Enterprise, when the traveller sent it to who knows where, had wound up in the SW universe? Now, it would be in the SW future, since we're not sure how long ago "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" is. But at least now it's feasible that it could happen. Especially if Wesly Crusher has a brain fart and sends another ship through such a trip. What if the Enterprise showed up when the Yuzon Vong was around? How would the Enterprise stand up against them?

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro

February 19th, 2004, 11:28 PM

Green Orion Slave Girl(Yvonne Craig)
vs.
Princess Leia Slave Girl.

Doesn't matter who'd win!

Rojero

February 19th, 2004, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

any and all sci-fi ships welcome. please be aware, though, that there really isn't much point in bringing, say, a fully completed death star into it, since we all know they fall like flies to fighter's and corvettes but blow up everything else. unless you bring in a DW planatiod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

this is an invitation to discussion, not a retry at my battle thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif How about that doomsday device from the original star trek series that kirk had to fight with commodore decker? you think that the death star can take it out? or will it get eaten by the "giant ice cream cone"?

Rojero

February 19th, 2004, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro:
Green Orion Slave Girl(Yvonne Craig)
vs.
Princess Leia Slave Girl.

Doesn't matter who'd win! hmmm how about

Cassiopia (Blond girl from orginal Battlestar Galactica)
vs.
Erin Moran (Joanie from Happy Days) who was in the movie Galaxy of Terror? LOL

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro

February 20th, 2004, 01:07 AM

Well I'd take the Death Star over the Ice Cream Cone. After all 1 ship down it's mouth did it in for good. Maybe we could distract it with a nice juicy Alderaan.

I was also thinking since Luke is the one that pulled the trigger, what is his body count. Does this make him the second largest murderer in the galaxy after The Grand Admiral blowing Alderaan out of space? I got a cutaway of the Death Star but no actual census of crew. Way to go Luke! How many Imperial citizens did you kill? How many Imperial troopers died that might have been sympathetic to the rebellion? Guess we'll have to ask the Rebel Flyboy with the hots for his sister.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 20th, 2004, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Rojero:
How about that doomsday device from the original star trek series that kirk had to fight with commodore decker? you think that the death star can take it out? or will it get eaten by the "giant ice cream cone"? [/QB]the thing that ate starships? well, the hull was neutronium, so it would have to fire at the inside of the gun, where they blew up the starship. if the gun managed to reach the death star, it's neutronium hull would mean it would eat a hole right through the middle, which would probably cause the death star to explode, which might destroy the GICC.

so, we've got one win for each and one draw. i think the balace is in favor of the death star, though.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 20th, 2004, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro:
I was also thinking since Luke is the one that pulled the trigger, what is his body count. Does this make him the second largest murderer in the galaxy after The Grand Admiral blowing Alderaan out of space? I got a cutaway of the Death Star but no actual census of crew. Way to go Luke! How many Imperial citizens did you kill? How many Imperial troopers died that might have been sympathetic to the rebellion? Guess we'll have to ask the Rebel Flyboy with the hots for his sister. if you wish to discuss that, please post it in another thread. this is a non-serious thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

February 20th, 2004, 02:34 AM

I don't know about all this other stuff, but I do know that my own Star Ships would kick the crap out of any other star ship out there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

General Woundwort

February 20th, 2004, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro:
I was also thinking since Luke is the one that pulled the trigger, what is his body count. Does this make him the second largest murderer in the galaxy after The Grand Admiral blowing Alderaan out of space? I got a cutaway of the Death Star but no actual census of crew. Way to go Luke! How many Imperial citizens did you kill? How many Imperial troopers died that might have been sympathetic to the rebellion?Lando's got him beat. He not only nuked a Death Star, but ruined a nearby planet with the fallout...

The Endor Holocaust (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/holocaust.html)

Guess that makes up for his not getting to play Two-Face, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

General Woundwort

February 20th, 2004, 03:37 AM

Originally posted by Rojero:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro:
Green Orion Slave Girl(Yvonne Craig)
vs.
Princess Leia Slave Girl.

Doesn't matter who'd win! hmmm how about

Cassiopia (Blond girl from orginal Battlestar Galactica)
vs.
Erin Moran (Joanie from Happy Days) who was in the movie Galaxy of Terror? LOL <hr /></blockquote>It's been done...

Ivanova vs. 7 of 9 vs. Leia (http://www.grudge-match.com/History/catfight.shtml)

Short Version - Ivanova won. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Or, for a more even match-up...

Officer John McClane ("Die-Hard") vs. the Death Star (http://www.grudge-match.com/History/mcclane-deathstar.shtml)

gregebowman

February 20th, 2004, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro:
Well I'd take the Death Star over the Ice Cream Cone. After all 1 ship down it's mouth did it in for good. Maybe we could distract it with a nice juicy Alderaan.

I was also thinking since Luke is the one that pulled the trigger, what is his body count. Does this make him the second largest murderer in the galaxy after The Grand Admiral blowing Alderaan out of space? I got a cutaway of the Death Star but no actual census of crew. Way to go Luke! How many Imperial citizens did you kill? How many Imperial troopers died that might have been sympathetic to the rebellion? Guess we'll have to ask the Rebel Flyboy with the hots for his sister. I forget which novel it was, but it was pre-Yuzon Vong, and Luke's companion at the time asked him if he knew how many people were on the Death Star at the time of its destruction. I don't recall the exact number, but Luke said it was over 1 million.