NGC5 starting now. (or "I wanna be a God aswell!")(Nearly Gods - the Conflict)

[Ruatha]

There are some games popping up with one God player, i e Zeta Quadrant, Masters of Orion 4...

I was thinking that it might be fun playing god.

So I'm making a map for 3-5 players, each playing an ancient race with a lot of tech directly and powerful starting conditions.
The rest 15-70 races are younger Ai races, weak.

Your job should be to influence these younger races to join your fraction, fight the other god's younger races. (Think Vorlons-shadows).

You aren't allowed to fight any younger races yourself, only other gods.
You aren't allowed to colonize outside your starting system (Good Sphereworld and several good planets for spaceyards in homesystem).
You'll get the entire tech tree for free, the younger races has to research (You'll get it by massive ancient ruins in the homesystem (several hundred tech levels each))
All trade and gifts will be disabled.

Win condition:
All other gods are dead, or all remaining younger races are on your side, meaning atleast military alliance or partnership.


Ideas, pitfalls??

[ March 03, 2004, 10:59: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Intimidator]

Good idea, count me in, if possibles

Intimidator

[Alneyan]

It would be interesting indeed. I would only have one suggestion: you should either ban Ancient race or reduce/forbid warp openers. Otherwise it would be quite easy to have a look at the planets list, figure out where are the other deities (very easy as the starting planet is a Sphere World, but it would work as well with standard planets), and open a wormhole or two to their systems.

Obviously, in such circumstances the younger races would not be used and the fight would merely be between a few systems and Stellar Manipulation. You could even completely ban Stellar Manipulation, if only destroying stars would not be a very suitable power for a divinity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Intimidator]

I agree with Alneyan, about the warp openers. But also think you should have ancient race.

Also how are you gonna control the no-attack restriction on the youngers. And how is an ancient defending against youngers, only passive or may he attack (on small levels) to defend himself. And again how are you gonna control that ??!!??

Intimidator

[AMF]

Let's ee what happens when I get squashed 5 turns into the game...

See my thoughts below on this topic...

----------------------------
I was thinking about a similar topic recently, and how it related to 4X games in general and SEIVG and SEV in particular.

here goes (and forgive me for being verbose, I'm on my fifth pilsner Urquell and I tend to get stupid when drinking and writing at the same time):


I play SEIV and similar games for many reasons, but, above all, I have found that I enjoy the *politics* of these games. In particular, to put it in gaming terms, I find it fascinating to observe and participate in the interactions of unequal powers dealing with each other and their own goals...

The political world is not fair, nor is it equal. And yet, the "lesser" powers in any given unequal relationship can often influence the greater powers far beyond their inherent capacity. Witness the leverage Cuba had over the USSR during the COld War.

I remember, I used to play a PBM before computer gaming, and the backdrop was exactly the same as SEIV..EXCEPT there was a really big power next door to all of us that had mhigher tech yet was "sluggish" and rarely got involved in our affairs as we built up our empires and fought each other..

And, then, look at MOO2 - a great game (lets' be honest now) and one of the reasons it was challengeing, at least the first few times, was becuase the Orions always held the upper hand. You nevber knew when they were gonna sweep down on you.

And, now, I've started a game (zeta quadrant) in which I wanted a similar dynamic - one powerful race, against which all players must fight (as well as each other) to attain the victory conditions. Problem is...it's hard to make a single power much more powerful than the players in SEIVG.

The idea I am trying to convince you of is this: in SE V, it would be nice if you could set up empires that were unequal and/or had pre-controlled regions, planets, fleets, etc...

For example, do you remember the game Traveller? Remember the war game Spinward Marches in which the setting was a powerful Zhodani empire in close proximity to a bunch of small unorganized human empires and the Imperium? Or the game where it was energetic humans on earth (solomani) making contact with the pre-existing but corrupt and inefficient first Imperiumn empire?

It would be nice, great, to be able to model those situations.

But, to do so would require SEV allow setups that were, first off, unequal in characteristics and, second, pre-set in terms of planets, fleets, etc...

The possibilities for such a set up are pretty limitless if it is made moddable.

I mean, there are an amazing amount of space stories out there that start in the middle of their storylines that we could model if we could, at the start of a game, set an empire to whatever we wanted and then run it from there...

Think of it: not only could you have a Star Trek Mod, but you could have a Star Trek on the eve of the Dominion War, or The Star Wars Empire v. the Rebellion right after the Return of the Jedi movie, or anything...

OK, I'm now, officially, babbling. I should go post this in the SEV requests forum I guess....

thanks,

Alarik


Originally posted by Ruatha:
There are some games popping up with one God player, i e Zeta Quadrant, Masters of Orion 4...

I was thinking that it might be fun playing god.

So I'm making a map for 3-5 players, each playing an ancient race with a lot of tech directly and powerful starting conditions.
The rest 15-70 races are younger Ai races, weak.

Your job should be to influence these younger races to join your fraction, fight the other god's younger races. (Think Vorlons-shadows).

You aren't allowed to fight any younger races yourself, only other gods.
You aren't allowed to colonize outside your starting system (Good Sphereworld and several good planets for spaceyards in homesystem).
You'll get the entire tech tree for free, the younger races has to research (You'll get it by massive ancient ruins in the homesystem (several hundred tech levels each))
All trade and gifts will be disabled.

Win condition:
All other gods are dead, or all remaining younger races are on your side, meaning atleast military alliance or partnership.


Ideas, pitfalls?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[AMF]

Let's ee what happens when I get squashed 5 turns into the game...

EDIT: because I may be many things, but I am NOT a ship or resource optimizer. I came to terms with this a long time ago...

See my thoughts below on this topic...


Originally posted by alarikf:
----------------------------
I was thinking about a similar topic recently, and how it related to 4X games in general and SEIVG and SEV in particular.

here goes (and forgive me for being verbose, I'm on my fifth pilsner Urquell and I tend to get stupid when drinking and writing at the same time):


I play SEIV and similar games for many reasons, but, above all, I have found that I enjoy the *politics* of these games. In particular, to put it in gaming terms, I find it fascinating to observe and participate in the interactions of unequal powers dealing with each other and their own goals...

The political world is not fair, nor is it equal. And yet, the "lesser" powers in any given unequal relationship can often influence the greater powers far beyond their inherent capacity. Witness the leverage Cuba had over the USSR during the COld War.

I remember, I used to play a PBM before computer gaming, and the backdrop was exactly the same as SEIV..EXCEPT there was a really big power next door to all of us that had mhigher tech yet was "sluggish" and rarely got involved in our affairs as we built up our empires and fought each other..

And, then, look at MOO2 - a great game (lets' be honest now) and one of the reasons it was challengeing, at least the first few times, was becuase the Orions always held the upper hand. You nevber knew when they were gonna sweep down on you.

And, now, I've started a game (zeta quadrant) in which I wanted a similar dynamic - one powerful race, against which all players must fight (as well as each other) to attain the victory conditions. Problem is...it's hard to make a single power much more powerful than the players in SEIVG.

The idea I am trying to convince you of is this: in SE V, it would be nice if you could set up empires that were unequal and/or had pre-controlled regions, planets, fleets, etc...

For example, do you remember the game Traveller? Remember the war game Spinward Marches in which the setting was a powerful Zhodani empire in close proximity to a bunch of small unorganized human empires and the Imperium? Or the game where it was energetic humans on earth (solomani) making contact with the pre-existing but corrupt and inefficient first Imperiumn empire?

It would be nice, great, to be able to model those situations.

But, to do so would require SEV allow setups that were, first off, unequal in characteristics and, second, pre-set in terms of planets, fleets, etc...

The possibilities for such a set up are pretty limitless if it is made moddable.

I mean, there are an amazing amount of space stories out there that start in the middle of their storylines that we could model if we could, at the start of a game, set an empire to whatever we wanted and then run it from there...

Think of it: not only could you have a Star Trek Mod, but you could have a Star Trek on the eve of the Dominion War, or The Star Wars Empire v. the Rebellion right after the Return of the Jedi movie, or anything...

OK, I'm now, officially, babbling. I should go post this in the SEV requests forum I guess....

thanks,

Alarik


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Ruatha:
There are some games popping up with one God player, i e Zeta Quadrant, Masters of Orion 4...

I was thinking that it might be fun playing god.

So I'm making a map for 3-5 players, each playing an ancient race with a lot of tech directly and powerful starting conditions.
The rest 15-70 races are younger Ai races, weak.

Your job should be to influence these younger races to join your fraction, fight the other god's younger races. (Think Vorlons-shadows).

You aren't allowed to fight any younger races yourself, only other gods.
You aren't allowed to colonize outside your starting system (Good Sphereworld and several good planets for spaceyards in homesystem).
You'll get the entire tech tree for free, the younger races has to research (You'll get it by massive ancient ruins in the homesystem (several hundred tech levels each))
All trade and gifts will be disabled.

Win condition:
All other gods are dead, or all remaining younger races are on your side, meaning atleast military alliance or partnership.


Ideas, pitfalls?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ March 01, 2004, 02:58: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[Ruatha]

Ideas on human players
5000 raceial points
Home system with plenty of variating planets, all breathable and right type.
Starting planet a spehreworld.
Get's all tech through artifacts on turn 2-3.

How to control that the gods don't squash the subjects, don't know, I gotta trust you I guess.
Some battles will happen by mistake, that we'll have to accept.

Killing the stellar manip tree is ok, ancient isn't needed but you can take it if you want to.
Otherwise I'd suggest perhaps religious and temporal? But that's up to the Gods themselfs.
But research should be 50% as it isn't needed.

[se5a]

can you put a system grav shield onto a plannet before the games starts?
or you could have 10 warp points in the system that the "gods" start in.

disabiling warp opners would kind of suck,
you could of corse make that a tech that is not included in the ruins so it has to be reserched....

count me in on this game! I dont mind being a minor race (we could do it with humans rather than AI couldent we???)

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by se5a:
can you put a system grav shield onto a plannet before the games starts?
or you could have 10 warp points in the system that the "gods" start in.

disabiling warp opners would kind of suck,
you could of corse make that a tech that is not included in the ruins so it has to be reserched....

count me in on this game! I dont mind being a minor race (we could do it with humans rather than AI couldent we???) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure, human worshippers are better!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Originally I thought of making the Gods start in systems without wormholes.
I can't choose that Stellar manip won't come from ruins, apart from unique tech the tech gained from ruins is randomized when you colonize that planet.
A system shield can't be added before start.
10 worm-holes just gives the opponent a better clue as to where the opponent is.
I think No-ancient and normal map for all is best.
Then you don't know the whereabouts of the opponent Gods.
You're just really powerful races, not allknowingly.

[Alneyan]

The main problem with Warp Openers would be the ease to reach the opponents, bypassing the lesser powers and heading straight for their world. The System Shields Facility will not work either, as it would still be possible to open the wormhole to the system next to your opponent. (Obviously, without the Ancient trait you will need to do some scouting to spot where they lie)

On the other hand, it would make going to the offensive much harder, and how could you do so if other lesser powers could attack you on the way? You might want to instead add a rule along the lines of "you cannot *attack* the lesser powers, but defence is perfectly fine as long as they are the ones on the offensive". (No, the best defence isn't a good offence in this case) I will confess I am not sure how it should work to put the emphasis on these lesser powers.

[Intimidator]

I thought of it again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
The fun part WITH the warp openers could be the fact that you ALL start with them.
So not only one race but 5, so you could go on the offensive in an other system, but never leave your own without defense because ever f*cking turn an complete armade could be marching in.

So you build defenses in your homesystem and build smaller/faster and cloaked ships to look around and find the youngers,


Yes this might be fun.....

I already join on pbw?

Intimidator

[Ruatha]

Ok, As I've made the map I can't be a god.
But i want to play.
So here is the current configuration I'm thinking of:
4 Ancients, 5000 racial points, übersystem with sphereworld as starting planet, ruins with all tech, 2 ringworlds, plenty of planets.
All adjusted to the players planet type and atmosphere.
15 normal races, 0 racial points, normal start.
1 First race, in center of galaxy, more racial points and better system than the ancients, no worm holes connecting to rest of galaxy.


Rules:
1. Ancients (4) cannot attack eachothers homesystem (or enter it) before turn 80 (Build, build , build).
2. No gifts or trades whatever.
3. Ancients cannot attack minor races before turn 120, only defend.
4. all racial traits are allowed, even the ancient allknowing one.

5. Minor races may attack whomever they want to.
6. Minor races may enter treaties with all other races, how they wish.
7, disregarding rule 6, human played minor races may only have military alliance or partnership with one ancient race at a time.
8. Ancient allknowing racial trait isn't allowed for aminor race.

9. First race (1) may not attack anyone or leave their homesystem unless:
10. The first race is used for police actions in case of violation of the above rules.


What does this mean?
For the minor races a T&R treaty with an ancient race boosts research mucho, unless that ancient race has dismantled all their (for themself useless) reaserch facilities.

The game host will check in on the other races from time to time and if an ancient is attacking a minor the first ones will strike back with a directed attack, either against that ancient race or one of its innocent minor races (Anyone with military or partnership treaty).

Any ancient might attack the first one if they wish at any time, to give me some fun.
The price is a really good oxygen rock system, but it will be hard to get and you'll loose every ship you send in and never win the battle, cause I'm the First One!

Before turn 80 the ancient ones will guide and coordinate their minor races in their war against the others minor races, and try to rally more minor races to their cause.
After turn 80 they may attack another ancient race but not a minor race.
After turn 120 it's all out war, then the minors should be up to tech.


The win will be collective and equal for all in the winning team, one ancient race and it's minor races.
The First one cannot win.
This means that there might from 1-16 winners in this game (One ancient and all minors).

The game will be called "(Nearly Gods) the Conflict 5" or NGC5, can soon be found on PBW under the heading (NG)C5.

Nothing is written in stone, themap isn't created.

More opinions and ideas?

[ March 01, 2004, 19:19: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Ruatha]

Roll call so far:
First one: Me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Ancients:
2.Intimidator.
3.Alneyan.
4.Se5a? Or minor race.
5.

Minor races.
6-20

All free slots will be filled with nasty AI races.

Random FQM Huge map with 5 extra systems added making a total of 230-255 systems. (I like huge maps, I'll do this map as I won't be able to win, and then I can be a superGod!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )


When all rules and settings has been discussed and no more ideas and suggetsions come in, I'll set up a game on PBW.

[ March 01, 2004, 19:24: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Intimidator]

Hi,

Maybe ussing the TDM-modpack (3.40 is suited for patch 4) might be fun, better AI and nicer shipsets

Intimidator

[Intimidator]

Tommorow I'm going to get 2 of my wisdom-tooth pulled (destroyed, erased, vaporized....) so when you don't get a respond from me or I don't join your game, please be patient.........I'll be back in a couple of days (you know after dying first, I will slowly come to life again)

Intimidator

(I'm so f*cking scared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif )

[Ruatha]

Isn't it possible to use TDM AIs without using any mod?

[Intimidator]

TDM has no changes, only the AI and the shipsets, so it doesn't matter at all.

Intimidator

[oogs]

can I join in? this sounds fun (either god or minor.. i don't care. My chipmunks will still leave their mark http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

[Renegade 13]

Why do you people always post the info of such interesting PBW games? Are you purposely enticing me to join? Ok ok ok, mind if I join (adding to my already huge number of PBW games)?

What do you say?

Renegade 13

[Renegade 13]

Actually, on second thought I better not. I took a look at my other PBW games, and I decided there's too many. I can't manage another. Sorry for the false alarm.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
Actually, on second thought I better not. I took a look at my other PBW games, and I decided there's too many. I can't manage another. Sorry for the false alarm. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">*I know the feeling!

Sure Ooogs, you're in.

[Ruatha]

The game is up at PBW under the name:
(Nearly Gods) the Conflict 5.

The ancients will have to tell me their preferances concerning planet type and atmosphere.

It would be nice if one of the ancients take the Vorlon shipset and another take the shadows...
But that's up to you!

[Ruatha]

Ok, the ancients will have 3000 racial points, no more, the minors 0.
All rules and settings follow:
If you want to discuss them, now is the time. Nothing is nailed yet!


(Nearly Gods) the Conflict 5
============================

So you wanna be a god?
Or are you looking to topple the gods from their thrones?
Then this is the game for you!

The participants:
1, First one: In the center of teh galaxy, more racial points and better system than the ancients, no worm holes connecting to rest of galaxy.

2-5: 4 Ancients, 3000 racial points, great starting system with sphereworld as starting planet, ruins with all tech, 2
ringworlds, plenty of planets.
All adjusted to the players planet type and atmosphere.

6-20: 15 normal races, 0 racial points, normal start.


The galaxy is 230-250 systems with plenty of planets, normal amounts of wormholes. Middle-life sector from FQM, approx the same type of map as used in NGC1-3.
Any minor slot not filled by human player will be played by AI initially.

MAIN RULES:

1. Ancients (4) cannot attack eachothers homesystem (or enter it) before turn 80 (Build, build , build).
2. No gifts or trades whatever.
3. Ancients cannot attack minor races before turn 120, only defend.
4. all racial traits are allowed, even the ancient allknowing one.
5. The ancients cannot have colonies outside their homesystem!


6. Minor races may attack whomever they want to.
7. Minor races may enter treaties with all other races, how they wish.
8, disregarding rule 6, human played minor races may only have military alliance or partnership with one ancient race at a time, but how many minor races as they wish.
9. Ancient allknowing racial trait isn't allowed for a minor race.


10. First race (1) may not attack anyone or leave their homesystem unless:
11. The first race is used for police actions in case of violation of the above rules.
12. First ones cannot have any treaties with anyone else.


What does this mean?
For the minor races a T&R treaty with an ancient race boosts research mucho, unless that ancient race has dismantled all their (for themself useless) reaserch facilities.

The game host will check in on the other races from time to time and if an ancient is attacking a minor the first ones will strike back with a directed attack, either against that ancient race or one of its innocent minor races (Anyone with military or partnership treaty).

Any ancient or minor might attack the first one if they wish at any time, to give me some fun.
The price is a really good oxygen rock system, but it will be hard to get and you'll loose every ship you send in and never win the battle, cause I'm the First One!

Before turn 80 the ancient ones will guide and coordinate their minor races in their war against the others minor races, and try to rally more minor races to their cause.
After turn 80 they may attack another ancient race but not a minor race.
After turn 120 it's all out war, then the minors should be up to tech.


The win will be collective and equal for all in the winning team, one ancient race and it's minor races.
The First one cannot win.
This means that there might from 1-16 winners in this game (One ancient and all minors).
If all ancients are destroyed the winner will be decided by the remaining players and the gamehost, in that case the game ends when the players think so.

Nothing is written in stone, themap isn't created.

More opinions and ideas?

Will the minors topple the Gods? Will the Gods battle it out with the minors in the middle?
What will happen????


More info: (auxiliary rules)

SETTINGS:
-------------

1. Huge galaxy, 200+ systems created with standard Fyron Quadrant Mod by Ruatha, Mid-Life settings, plenty of diverse planets and worm-holes, much asteroid fields. The mod is not needed by the players.

2. 20 players at start, or rest filled up by AI.

3. No tech trading, No tech gifts. No gifts or trading at all. This is stopped by the settings and you can try to do it but you won't be able to. The Ancienst cannot have planets outside their home-system. The ancients aren't allowed to hand down tech to minors.

4. Player uses standard un-modded Gold patch 4 (stock 1.91).

5. Low tech start.

6. High tech cost.

7. No surrendering.

8. Only own score is shown.

9. 0 Starting race points for minors, 3000 for ancients and 5000 for first ones.

10. Win condition : When all agree upon a winner:
- A team of ancients and minors defeats all other ancients.
- A team of minors defeats all ancients.
- All minors have partnership with one ancient.

11. Intel is disabled, set your cunning to 50%.

12. Max 100 mines/sector.

13. Max units 20000

14. Max Ships 8000

15. 1 Starting planets.

16. 48 Hours timed fully automatic turns. (If all players upload before then the game turn will be executed)
Eventually it might be moved to 72 hours if empires get large and turns takes more time.
If you need 72 hours for a turn, ask for it, otherwise it will run at 48 hours.

17. ANCIENT RACE TRAIT IS NOT ALLOWED FOR MINORS.

18. Starting Resources 100000

19. Home planet Value: Good

20. Event Frequency: None

21. Auto-nag when 8 hours remind of turn time, auto-nag Last two player to upload. (I do not send mails manually telling you to "Hop to it"!! so don't complain to the host about being nagged!)
------------------
Pre-Game Rules:
---------------

1. Always have a valid e-mail adress where the host can reach you.

2. Max/min of racial traits is allowed (if you want to do it you'll have to pay the prize by lowering something else) (RECOMMENDATION: Increase defence, offense and maintnance reduction)

3. Roleplaying is encouraged aswell as in-game stories. But not required!

4. The aim of this game is to have FUN.

5. When uploading your empire mark wich shipset you are using. No duplicate shipsets allowed. If you are using a stock shipset select "STOCK SHIPSET -XXXXXX" Where XXXXX is the shipset you are using, it must be the same as when you created your empire file.

6. I will need an e-mail from each player before you are allowed to join, when you apply to the game I'll mail you about that.

7. It might not be me who hosts the game, if I have to go away for awhile I'll set up a guest host.

8. There might be more than one host at any given time, no host should participate in the game as something else as first one race.

-----------
GAME RULES
------------

1. Max partnership or military alliance with one ancient for the minors. A minor may have whatever treaty he wishes with all other minors.
Ancients may not have treaties with eachother, First one cannot have any treaties with anyone.

2. Retroseries are allowed. (If you want to pay for it use it)

3. Absolutely no e-mail diplomacy prior to in-game contact. You may mail eachother on all other issues but not concerning in-game events and strategies prior to in-game contact.

4. Total turtelling is forbidden!
(You may shut down worm-holes and build system gravitational shields but there must always be atleast one way to enter a system. If it doesn't have any worm-holes it can't have a system gravitational shield.
This goes for individual systems aswell as your entire empire.
You may shutdown all wormholes into your empire, then you may build system gravitational shields in all systems but one!)


------------
Hosting
------------

1. Breaking the rules may result in a warning, or being kicked from the game. Depending on the nature and severity of the transgression. Or an attack by the first ones on the ancients or a minor race (even one who hasn't broken the rules if it's associated with a ruöe-breaking ancient). Decided by the host.

2. When an empire becomes without player the host might go in and check that empire from time to time until a replacement is found, he will then see to it that the empire builds defences.

3. Missing four consecutive turns without notifying the host will get you kicked.
(Mail the host if you're going to be away a longer time)

4. We will try to run automated turns, so try to avoid asking for "Last player upload turns". So before asking for the game to be taken off automatic timed turns consider it thouroghly! ALPU is reserved for big events like marriage, childbirth and deaths in the family.

5. The host has absolute power in hosting issues, questions might be put to a vote or decided upon by the host.

----------------------------------------
It's considered good maner to introduce yourself at the game forum at the PBW site.

[ March 03, 2004, 20:22: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Phoenix-D]

Any slots open for a minor race? I'm about to retire the Cluk-Ruk as I build another shipset for Starfury and SE4, and this would be a nice way to send them off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Intimidator]

Throw some astroids in the ancients systems also for planet building purposes.

Inti,

[Intimidator]

I will use the Vorlon Shipset, always liked that one.

Inti,

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Any slots open for a minor race? I'm about to retire the Cluk-Ruk as I build another shipset for Starfury and SE4, and this would be a nice way to send them off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure, just set it up a few moments ago, so there's alot of slots left!!

[se5a]

mnnn, I think Ill go for a minor race. Im not realy good enough to be a god...


and I sugest that you only let people you know wont bail on us to be gods

[ March 03, 2004, 17:29: Message edited by: se5a ]

[Intimidator]

Just pick a minor se5a, I'm eager to be your GOD http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Inti,

[Alneyan]

Please count me in this game as well once I figure out a proper name for my Empire. (It would be different for an Ancient race though compared to a minor race. I mean, you would expect a pretender god/goddess to have a pompous name for example.)

Incidentally, I happen to have two more questions: isn't 3000 points a bit much for ancient races? It will actually be 4000 points as ancient races can, and will, lower Research to 50% if they have everything already researched. Unless it is your goal, obviously. Along the same lines, is intelligence enabled or not? You wrote "Only own score is shown. (Use intel if you need more info on your neighbours)" and then "Intel is disabled, set your cunning to 50%". Thanks in advance!

[ March 03, 2004, 18:04: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

[oogs]

Ruatha: could you make a list of who is what race (or how many of which are taken)? Although I don't care if I'm minor or ancient, I'm sure someone else might want to be a god and join up thinking they can be one when the slots are already full.

[Tanus]

I'd love to get in on this game... perhaps as a god if there's still space available?

It'll be an interesting dynamic, and though I'm already in NGC4, I'm pretty sure I'll still have lots of time for this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Ruatha]

Roll call right now:

First One: Ruatha

Ancients (4):
Intimidator.
Alneyan.
AlarikF ????
Oogs

Minors:
Se5a
Tanus


Order of interest:
1.Intimidator
2.Alneyan
3.AlarikF
4.Se5a
5.Oogs
6.Tanus


INTIL IS OFF, WILL CHANGE THAT PARADOX, UNLESS YOU'LL WANT INTEL ON!

Gods need alot of RP!

[Intimidator]

How much researched items do we get at the start, I wanna know how I have to share my Racial points. (Do we get it all or are there some things left to research ??)

And please let me (us) know when it is definitive if Intell is off ?

Inti,

[Phoenix-D]

Definitely in as a minor race.

[oogs]

just a quick clarification: 0 racial points means we can't use any at all, right?

just making sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ruatha]

As statedd below, Intel is off.
Minors have no extra racial points, that is 0. They can re-arrange their racial points as they like.
The gods will get all tech free.

Any reasearch points the ancients have might be good to persuade minors to join their cause, they'll get research points through treaties (T&R or higher) with the ancients.
So it might be a good idea to have research above 50%.

Outside the ancients homesystems the ancients are free to fight eachother at sight if they wish.

[Ruatha]

Roll call right now:

First One: Ruatha

Ancients (4):
Intimidator.
Alneyan.
AlarikF ????
Oogs

Minors:
Se5a
Tanus (perhaps as ancient ?)
Phoenix-D


Order of interest:
1.Intimidator
2.Alneyan
3.AlarikF
4.Se5a
5.Oogs
6.Tanus
7. Phoenix D
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 Ruatha

[Intimidator]

Outside the ancients homesystems the ancients are free to fight eachother at sight if they wish. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But not before turn 80, isn't it ?

Inti,

[Intimidator]

Hi,

Ruatha, We are full off ancients now and some minors, How many minors do you want/need before starting?

I'm no that eager to start but just curious.

Intimidator

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Intimidator:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> Outside the ancients homesystems the ancients are free to fight eachother at sight if they wish. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But not before turn 80, isn't it ?

Inti, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Would I confuse you if I said no, or yes.
I mean that you may fight anywhere you want, but not attack or enter the others homesystem before turn 80, but maybe that is stupis, and there should be no fighting at all before turn 80.


I need confirmation from AlarikF that he will play as ancient.
And I need system spec (Atmosphere and planet (Ice,rock,gas) from all ancients before we start.

AND, everyone must join the game at PBW first, only 4 so far....

[ March 04, 2004, 18:19: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Ruatha]

Roll call right now:

First One: Ruatha has joined

Ancients (4):
Intimidator. has joined - prefs sent
Alneyan.
Oogs has joined - prefs sent
Tanus

Minors:
Se5a (Prefers Minor)
Phoenix-D (Prefers minor)
RockNRoll has joined


Order of interest:
1.Intimidator
2.Alneyan
AlarikF (won't play)
3.Se5a
4.Oogs
5.Tanus
6. Phoenix D
7. RockNRoll
8.
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 Ruatha

[ March 05, 2004, 03:42: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Ruatha]

I'm at full work with the map.
The periphery and most of the map will be mid-life FQM huge.
The center will be strange, nothing game-unbalancing except for teh ancients of-course!
255 systems.
2000+ planets
many asteroids....

QUESTION TO ALL
SHOULD TEH ANCIENTS BE ALLOWED TO FIGTH OUTSIDE THEIR HOMESYSTEMS BEFORE TUNR 80, OR SHOULD THERE BE NO ANCIENT FIGHTS BEFORE THAT DATE?

Note:Ancients must offer all minors atleast NA treaty, and accept NA treaty from all minors, up to turn 120.

[ March 04, 2004, 21:08: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[oogs]

Ruatha, check your PM. I sent the prefs there.

As for combat before turn 80 ... I don't think that fighting outside our home systems will make much of a difference, so I'll say "yes".

[Tanus]

Ok, just sent you my prefs, and I'll upload my empire shortly


As for combat outside our home systems... I think Oogs is right - it won't actually affect much, so sure.

[Intimidator]

Agree,

before turn 80 : attack ancients out of homesystem

After turn 80 : attack ancients everywhere

After turn 120 : Full scale war

[Ruatha]

Roll call right now:

First One: Ruatha has joined

Ancients (4):
Intimidator. has joined - prefs sent
Alneyan.
Oogs has joined - prefs sent
Tanus has joined - prefs sent

Minors:
Se5a (Scout) (Prefers Minor)has joined
Phoenix-D (Prefers minor)
RockNRoll has joined


Order of interest:
1.Intimidator
2.Alneyan
AlarikF (won't play)
3.Se5a (scout)
4.Oogs
5.Tanus
6. Phoenix D
7. RockNRoll
8.
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 Ruatha

[ March 06, 2004, 05:54: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[se5a]

I am scout
pbw doesent like se5a so I had to use scout.

[se5a]

well I have created my empire, anyone want to wright a description for me?
(I realy hate it when people leave it blank, but I cant think of anything...)

anyway 0 RP for minors, and intell is off, corect?

[Ruatha]

Yep.
0 rp for minors, intel is off.
We're waiting for Alneyan to join and all to upload empires and forme to make the map finished.
Got two ancients systems finished, two more to go.
Will work sunday day and night so I'll fix it on monday.

[Ruatha]

Roll call right now:

First One: Ruatha has joined

Ancients (4):
Intimidator. has joined - prefs sent
Alneyan. has joined - partial prefs sent
Oogs has joined - prefs sent
Tanus has joined - prefs sent

Minors:
Se5a (Scout) (Prefers Minor)has joined
Phoenix-D (Prefers minor)has joined
RockNRoll has joined
Sefter Aruna has joined


Order of interest:
1.Intimidator
2.Alneyan
AlarikF (won't play)
3.Se5a (scout)
4.Oogs
5.Tanus
6. Phoenix D
7. RockNRoll
8. Sefter Aruna
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20 Ruatha

[ March 06, 2004, 09:20: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Ruatha]

Ok, the map is nearing completion, will finish it tomorrow.
It will be pretty obvious where the ancients live, so if you want to find them you'll have no big problem with that.
As said the periphery where the minors start is pretty standard. Huge galaxy.
The center is special with some weird systems, due to the latest patch I couldn't do all I wanted (Systems above systems crashes the program now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ).

I hope you'll all have fun playing it.
Still room for some normal races to join.

[Cheeze]

If there's time, I'm in as an insignficant bug race

[Joachim]

OK, count me in for some 'God' worship.

[Ruatha]

Yep,I'm still at work. Just join the ranks!

[Loser]

Having some more spare time now, I'd like to join this game as a Minor Race.

[Ruatha]

Still some slots left and all hasn't uploaded their empire files, so you're just in time!

[Phoenix-D]

Just a bump to remind a misguided player that I am not in fact playing a God race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Roll call right now:
Minors:
Se5a (Scout) (Prefers Minor)has joined
Phoenix-D (Prefers minor)has joined
RockNRoll has joined
Sefter Aruna has joined
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ April 28, 2004, 04:28: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Makinus]

I took over one of the minor races (Xier Empire/Fleets) of the game, and i started a kind of diary of my turns, so i thought about sharing it with the other players in this thread, i would like to hear commentaries and even hints about my strategies, etc.... keep in mind that i probably will not release there any plans that i have against other races, or even specific systems or planets that i'm attacking, and sometimes i'll not post severl turns for some time (because of moves and plans that i will eventually be doing in these turns).

But here goes the first 3 turns that i played:

Turn 23:

Took over the race Xier Empire, a Methane/Gas Giant race, culture bersekers, demeanor serene, Physical Strenght, Cunning, Political Savy and Farming Aptitude are the lowest possible, bringing points that were used in Aggressivenes, Defensiveness and Construction Aptitude, so looks like the race is one prepared to fight and don't have much strenght (or advantages) in diplomacy or making teatries.

Looks like the AI is for some time in control of this empire, because the facilities in some of the planets are completely illogical (85% mineral planet full of mines while a 142% mineral planet full of research centers), so i scraped a lot of facilities and made new selection for planets. The exploration made show that the AI was really in control for some time, while i have explored systems 5 warppoints beyond my homesystem there is a system 1 Warppoint from my homeworld inexplored.

No contacts with other races yet.

I have 6 Frigates with weapons that the AI was problably using for scouting (and a mistery here: one of the ships is heavily damaged, but i can't find any damaging sector near it, and i don't contacted any other race yet), 2 colony ships enroute to a system 3 WP away with 2 colonizable planets.

My home system have, including my homeworld, 3 colonies, being one the 85% mineral planet mentioned above and another the 142% mineral planet, i have 3 WP from my home system, being one to a system with 2 colonies and 1 colonizable planet, other to a asteroid belt system, and other to an inexplored system.

I have also more 2 colonies in a system 2 WP away, being one of them with my native atmosphere.

Including my homesystem i have explored a total of 9 systems, being 7 conventional systems, a asteroid belt system and a blackhole system (cool blackhole system: it have 3 planets in it, including one colonizable by me).

I maintaned the colony ships that are enroute to colonize the planets 3 WP away of my HW, and retrofited all the "Attack Ships" used by the AI for exploration, so i can extend the range of them, stripping all weapons and adding supply storages.


Turn 24:

Continuing the retrofit and rebulding of facilities, another colony ship was constructed, and i give it orders to colonize the colonizable planet 1 WP away from my home system (in the system with already 2 colonies).


Turn 25:

First contact with the race "Sign of One" that according to their statistics is one of the "Ancient Ones", sent a message of saudations... strange, i can't find any ship that may have caused the contact, even replaying the movements, probably it is a cloaked ship.... let's see what will be the answer to my message...

Another colony ship ready, that i gave orders to colonize a planet 4 WP away (i probably have better options in one of the nearer inexplored systems, but my retrofited scouts don't reached any of them yet).

[ April 28, 2004, 13:39: Message edited by: Makinus ]

[Ruatha]

Interesting reading the thoughts behind your gameplay.
Please keep it up, I'll be reading it.

[Alneyan]

Welcome to you then! If I do not confuse the Empire names, this ship actually made a mistake, since it entered one of your systems and departed at once. You will need to use a stepped movement replay in this system to see the movement, but I gather you have something better to do with your time. (It should be your system most to the north, and three systems away from this blackhole. It should be south of an asteroid belt as well, if you happen to have visited it)

Actually, you may get more treaties, since you will benefit less than other Empires because of your low Political Savvy. (Which means you will only earn 10% of a given Empire income at best, unlike 20% at a normal level) Many Empires lowered this characteristic as well, so you will not be alone with a reduced trade revenue. You are likely to run into another problem however, but I shouldn't be discussing your race weaknesses in public, should I?

I will likely post an update as well, following the contacts made in the Last few turns, but don't hold your breath on it.

[Makinus]

thanks for the replies people, i think i'll post my "diary" every 3 turns (or more if nothing interesting happens), and there is not any problem dicussing my potential weaknesses in public, because i'm a newbie anyway (only played single player until now), and better to me and everyone to know my weaknesses than everyone but me to know them....

my main problem (that i noticed) is the few quantity of planets that i can colonize, i, more or less, can only find around 2/3 planets per system, and found only one of my native atmosphere until now...

[Alneyan]

Maintenance is another key characteristic, since it governs how much you will need to pay to keep your ships running every single turn. For example, with an average maintenance, you will need to pay 25% of the ship value every turn in maintenance, meaning 2,500 minerals every turn for a ship costing 10,000 minerals. In short, you will repay the ship every four turns.

On the other hand, a maintenance of 120% (the maximum) means you will only pay 5% in maintenance, so you will repay the cost of the ship every twenty turns. In the end game, you may spend several hundred thousand resources on maintenance every turn, so even what may look like a small improvement may mean a lot then.

There are ways to work around this problem however, so you are not doomed to a life of misery in spite of the initial Empire design you took over. Nevertheless, it is quite a problem with SEIV, since most choices are not exactly balanced, and so you are more likely to make poor choices when making your Empire.

[capnq]

The Quetzal Hegemony was thoroughly impressed by the Sign of One battlecruiser that visited our home system; that was the only memorable event so far. We were a little concerned because it was heading straight for our sun and homeworld, but then it stopped and didn't approach any closer.

We should probably be putting more effort into exploring; we've only visited one loop of systems so far.

[Loser]

The Narn Regime has been fortunate enough to contact two God-like anchients and one fellow traveler.

Colonization is moving along smoothly, but research is so very slow, with High Research costs and only one starting Homeworld it's going to take a while.

[Ruatha]

Would be interesting to know the reactions of the population when those advanced battle cruisers and such pops into the system!

Any chance of a good story coming? Anyone up to it?

[Alneyan]

It could be worse Ruatha, since it could be a nice wormhole popping in the middle of your homesystem, followed by a battlecruiser or three. Now that ought to be quite a surprise for the "receiving" Empire!

However, you should be careful of what you pray for if such a prospect is appealing to you, for your prayers may very well be answered! (At least, how would you deny the divine nature of beings able to pop in your homesystem with a mere thought? Now that would be quite a sight to behold!)

[Makinus]

Continuing the Xier Empire/Fleets war diary:


Turn 26:

The Sign of One answered my saudations proposing a Non-Aggression treaty, that i decided to accept since i don't have actual conditions to fight with anyone at the moment, much less an "Ancient One"...

New colony founded in a new system that don't have a spacetport yet, but i decided to wait to build a spaceport in another colony that will be founded in the next turn and to dedicate the colony founded in this turn entirely to mineral production since i cannot waste a slot in 133% mineral planet with the need i'm having with minerals (i'm actualy having to stop some production so i don't stall my economy).

Explored the system 1WP away from my HW and, surprise, 3 colonizable planets, including 1 with my atmosphere, that i sent a colony ship to colonize immediately.


Turn 27:

I appear to have miscalculated my resources, and, while i'm not yet with the production stalled, the lack of minerals will gave me trouble in a turn or two. To try to resolve this situation i'll have to scrap some ships (scouts) and reduce my exploration efforts to only 2 or 3 ships, i also changed the destination of the colony ship that i sent in turn 25 to a planet 4WP away to a nearer (inexplored) system, whil i hope there will be some planet that i can colonize.

My problem with resoruces is obviously coming from the colony ships that i have enroute to several planets, and i'll have to wait for them to arrive in their destinations before building more colony ships.

To help with the mineral situation i put also On Hold some non-essential building efforts (Research Centers, Resuply Depots, etc.)

Received a diplomatic message from the "Sign of One" stating that the scouts that they are using are unarmed so thay don't accidentally harm any minor race.


Turn 28:

A new contact with what looks like a is a minor race, the Cluk-Ruk Collective, sent them a message proposing a Non-Aggression pact so our ships don't shoot each other accidentally....

My mineral situation is slowly improving, thanks to new Mineral Facilities built, but i still have to keep several production queues on hold (mainly new colony ships), while the active colony ships don't arrive at their destinations...

Looks like i'll have a serius problem with maintenance for the entire game...

With a few new systems explored i have now several options for colonization, of course i'm giving preference for planets with my native atmosphere and, after that, planets with good mineral concentrations.

[Makinus]

The Saga continues:

Turn 29:

Received a proposal from the Sign of One, where they will transform some asteroid belts (6 in total) in planets for my use, unfortunatelly i can't divulgate here what they want in echange, but it is a real bargain for my empire.

New contact with a race called the Fractal Dominion, sent them a Non-Aggression treaty proposal.

New colony founded, that i decided to transform in a research compound since it's values are all low.

Still managing my minerals ina thight rein, but i foresse that, with new mineral facilities being built, i will have some breath in a few turns to use my full production capacity.


Turn 30:

The Cluk-Ruk accepted my Non-Aggression pact, and i contacted a new minor race: The Ukra-Tal Collective, as usual, i sent them a Non-Aggression proposal...

Two new colonies, being one of my atmosphere type (since the planet is low on all resources, i'll dedicate it to ressearch)...

All production queues thata were On Hold are normalized, since my new mineral facilities in several planets are increasing my mineral production (let's hope i can keep it up)


Turn 31:

The Fractal Dominion accepted my Non-Aggression pact, and i have two new contacts with the Tyrrian Starsraad and the Hulentian Empire, another Minor Race, sent them a Non-Agrression proposal.

New colony founded, in a planet with a good mineral concentration and with my native atmosphere, so my mineral problems can be eased at Last, got also some tech from ruins, but only useless techs....

My scout ships are exploring a lot of systems, and, until now, i consider that i'm in a good position, with easily defendable systems, and mineral production and contruction capacities increasing accordingly, i also have several options for colonization and i'm building colony ships in all my yards...

[Makinus]

Turn 32:

The Ukra-Tal Collective accepted the Non-Agression pact, but asked that i don't scout in the direction of their empire and

they would do the same, since i have more exploration routes than scouts to explore all of them i don't see any problem in

this.... for now....

Received a very belligerant message from the Tyrrian Starsraad, asking to leave a system recently explored, since they

didn't received my Non-Aggression proposal i'll wait to hear their answer to my proposal, and if they still maintain they

belligerant tone i'll need to start thinking about fortifying my systems near their space...

Receive also a very amicable message from the Hulentian Empire, asking for a Trade Treaty, that i decided to accept, and

asked permission from them to colonize planets in a system where thay already have a colony....

Asked to the Cluk-Ruk about stablishing a border between our empires, in a system where we both already colonized planets,

lets see what they say....

My mineral production keeps increasing and i'm expecting to reach my storage capacity in around 2 to 3 turns, in order to

not waste resources i started construction of 2 more yards, and since they will be on-line only after my storage capacity is

reached i will produce some units in planets without yards, so my mineral production is not completely wasted....


Turn 33:

Not much happening in this turn, except that i sent several Messages to bordering empires with the intention of stablishing

borders among our empires...

My empire have a total of 5 borders, where in 4 of them i already contacted other empires. Until now i only contacted one of

the Ancient Ones, the Sign of One, and 5 minor races: The Cluk-Ruk Collective, The Fractal Dominion, The Ukra-Tal

Collective, The Tyrrian Starsraad and The Hulentian Empire. I have Non-Aggression pacts with everyone of them and a Trade

Treaty with the Hulentian Empire...


Turn 34:

The Hulentians said that there will not be any problem about the coloniztion of planets in the system they already have a

colony...

Have a new contact, with the Yerdonian Collective, an "Ancient One", lets see what they do about diplomacy...

Not much happening, except that i decide to build a pop transpor ship so i can spread my population more, and allow my

colony ships being constructed in other systems than the home system to have full pop on board...


Turn 35:

A lot of diplomacy going on, where i'm trying to stablish borders mong the Xier Empire and the other empires... My efforts

until now are sucessfull, and i have defined border with the majority of the empires contacted, and already proposed to the

remaining ones, and i just need to wait their answers...

This is the first turn where i'm having a surplus of minerals, beyond my storage capacity, so i strated producing some units

in the planets where i already have full facilities and no yards.... while i know that these units are very low tech and

will have few effectiveness, it is better than to waste resources...

I have several more yards nearing completion, and my mineral production is increasing exponentially, so i don't see problems

in this regard, but i'm not contructing spaceyards because of the high maintenance ratio of my empire, and i'm focusing in

planetary yards instead...

The Tyrrians accepted my proposal of borders and toned down some of the belligerant tone of their Messages, but since i'm

having a excess of minerals i'm reinforcing my planetary defenses anyway...

[Iansidious]

It's good to see my old people are doing well under there new leader. Long live the Xier!

[Alneyan]

The game is now officially over, with Tanus (Manticore) and Joachim (Dei Orpheous) winning the game.

If you are interested in seeing the final situation in the galaxy, take over any of the Empires currently without a leader, and download the turn (you can mail me if you want, and I will send you the 4.5 mb final file). The passwords have been reseted. Here are the passwords for the final turn:

First Ones: 297688
Verdonian: 721944
Manticore: 383254
Cluk-Ruk: 372269
Scouters Combine: 281233
Sign of One: 258719
Xier Fleets: 589575
Vrok Imperium: 845029
Dei Orpheous: 761417
Earth: 822959
Ukra-Tal: 708365
Tyrrian Starsraad: 627328
Narn Regime: 234531
Kotosian Empire: 231647
Quetzal Hegemony: 486547
Huletian: 138415
Empire of the Pointy: 436724
Fractal Dominion: 933926
Weyrlings: 493484
Great Nut Triumvirate: 489411

If you are particularly interested in seeing the state of the game on a given turn, please say so as well; I should be able to reset all the passwords for any previous turn, and make it available for public viewing.