AI Tag Standardization Proposal

[Deathstalker]

So...we have these wonderful new AI Tag's for components, facilities, and weapons and my big question is how is everyone going to use them?? What I mean is that we have 'hashed out' the vehicle sizes so there are a 'Standard' set of vehicles (ie, Neo-Standard) so how about we throw our heads together and do this for the Tags for basic (non-mod) se4.......

And if this happens any chance that the TDM guys would use these tags in their mod?? (or is there even any interest in that idea?).

I know I'm rapidly (or semi-rapidly that is...) applying these Tags for my Gold-D-2 mod...bEEEn interesting so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Not sure there is much point to this. The AIs will have to be re-worked for any different mod anyway..

[Captain Kwok]

How can the TDM guys use AI tags anyway? The stock game has no components with them, so mentioning them in the AI files is useless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

AI tags are probably best used on a mod-per-mod basis.

The work I'm doing features a number race-specic traits. When I can, I've been keeping the ai tags consistent for a given ability.

i.e.
Light Armor (General) AI tag 01
Heavy Armor (General) AI tag 02

Special Light Armor (Racial) AI tag 01
Special Heavy Armor (Racial) AI tag 02

This way, you'll probably only use 10-15 of the tags in a large/radical mod.

[Paul1980au]

Another reason for the AI to be upgraded in Version 2 to take advantage of these new features - wondering why it would just be left an unfinished project. Im sure some will disagree and want SE5 push ahead with but some minor patches on SE4 would be welcomed.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
Another reason for the AI to be upgraded in Version 2 to take advantage of these new features - wondering why it would just be left an unfinished project. Im sure some will disagree and want SE5 push ahead with but some minor patches on SE4 would be welcomed. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's not the problem. The AI tags were added as a modding tool. The stock comps have no real need for ai tags...

[ March 03, 2004, 02:54: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Fyron]

Right, the stock AIs have 0 use for the AI tags. It is by no means whatsoever an "unfinished project."

[Atrocities]

Fyron here is another example for our concept. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

This could make it easier to port AIs between different mods.

EG:

Even tags for cheap, odd tags for best.
The first pair(s) in each Category should be for common components if possible, and the Last few for racial tech.

Say #00 to #09 are for armor
#1x for shields
#2x for engines
#3x for Sensors
#4x for ECM
#5x for Cargo
#6x for Supplies
#7x for Stellar Manip
...

[Fyron]

There are only 20 AI tag abilities... unless you have tested higher numbers explicitly and they work SJ?

[Captain Kwok]

I'm fairly certain it is only the 20 tags. If so, please post about it.

In the case it's 20 - there's not enough to create any sort of real standard system...

[Ed Kolis]

Since we most likely have only 20 tags, how about making the SECOND digit specify what type of component it is, and the FIRST (the zero/one/two) specify the grade of component?

If only Aaron would make it 999 tags or something... it would have been SO easy to do that instead of 20 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Paul1980au]

So you want the capacity for 999 tags ?

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Since we most likely have only 20 tags, how about making the SECOND digit specify what type of component it is, and the FIRST (the zero/one/two) specify the grade of component?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I suppose. It might not work for every mod, but perhaps most.

Technically, it only gives 2 Versions for each type of component - but then some components might be given multiple "second digits" - such as armor which I suspect will be the biggest employer of ai tags (especially if leaky!).

[Paul1980au]

Yeah that leaky armour is something that comes up alot

ANother reason i would like to see armour expanded more and refined and the leaky armour thing modified say for a Version 2 realise.

Version 1.91 really doesnt represent the end effort though - or we could just leave it as is and move to waiting for SE5

[Captain Kwok]

Although 20 seems low, you'll actually be hard press to put them all into action, unless you start having 3 "grades" of every component.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
Another reason i would like to see armour expanded more and refined and the leaky armour thing modified say for a Version 2 realise.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Seriously. Will you knock it off with Version 2 release stuff, it's not going to happen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

At the very most, we might see a 1.92 if this memory error problem turns out to be a significant bug, but other than that, SE:V is going to be the only pot on MM's stove.

And it's much welcomed...

[ March 04, 2004, 01:27: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Fyron]

Version 1.91 really doesnt represent the end effort though <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And on what do you base this claim? It most certainly represents the "end effort," as it is the final patch for SE4.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
How can the TDM guys use AI tags anyway? The stock game has no components with them, so mentioning them in the AI files is useless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agree with you...

[Paul1980au]

You know that more than 3 grades for each component if you have the time to modify makes the game much more dynamic and long Lasting with a more indepth research tree taking longer to complete.

The error memory would be enough to put out at least Version 1.92.

[Deathstalker]

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
How can the TDM guys use AI tags anyway? The stock game has no components with them, so mentioning them in the AI files is useless.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Agree with you... "

My main idea about this was to have a standard set of tags for basic se4 (ie, tag 1 is Null-Space weapons, tag 2 is tractor beams, tag 3 is Rad Bombs ...etc).. I just remember alot of the AI guys wishing they could put more than 2 weapons on a ship to make them more 'personal' and with this system they could and anyone could design an AI or new shipset that would take advantage of this system of new tags and have it work with 'basic se4' where the addition of the AI tags was the ONLY modification to the game. (I'd just love to see what most of these guys could come up with for their 'babies'.)

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:

Say #00 to #09 are for armor
#1x for shields
#2x for engines
#3x for Sensors
#4x for ECM
#5x for Cargo
#6x for Supplies
#7x for Stellar Manip
... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This does sound like a good idea, however, I am confused as to why it would be needed? I mean if the tags are only to be used in mods, then why would we need to standardize them?

They are not likely to cause issues with other mods, being as such that most mods, if not all, use seperate folders and do not modify or use the stock abilities file.