Rated Game Proposal

[Slynky]

Well, Geo can do it, so why can't I http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ?

I was thinking about the popularity of the Draft Football league played in bars and thought up a similar idea:

Game: Team
Players: 4 x 4 (or 5 x 5 if enough interest)
Turn Times: 48 hours till turn 15 (then 72 hours)
Map: Large (to be set up fairly by an approved non-player dividing teams across the map)
Type: To be decided
Racial restrictions: 2,000 points; 1 good starting planet; Low tech cost; No trait will be lowered to show "non-existant"; No Religious
Game restrictions: No mines; No intel; All players on a team must take the same colony type but a DIFFERENT atmosphere; surrender/gifts/trades/(etc.) allowed

NOW, here is the "kicker":

There are 2 admirals at the beginning for each team (that are the highest rated players). Proposed at this writing: Primitive and Asmala (everyone knows my rating is a bit inflated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Each admiral "drafts" his choice of players to fill out "his" team. First draft goes to the lowest rated player (and after that, team total).

So, a running total is kept of the team total and until a team total is higher than that of the opposing team, he continues to keep choosing. Example:

Asmala chooses first. He chooses a player with 500 points (I know...not a wise choice). Now, that team has (roughly) 1600 points. Now, Primitive is the lowest team total. He chooses next and chooses a player with 1000 points. Now, his team has (roughly) 2100 points. Asmala's team is lowest again and he chooses a player with 400 points (gee, has anyone talked to him about his choices?!). Now, Asmala's team has (roughly) 2000 points. So he gets to choose again.

Of course, that is a wild example to make the point.

So, when we get two agreeable admirals, the "drafting" begins. It must be posted here in this thread and should look like this (kind of):

Primitive humbly (as if http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) requests the fleets of (fill in the blank) to join him in galactic slaughter. The requested person can decline (based on schedule or anything else...after all, he might not want to play a game of this type) or accept. If he declines, he is removed from the draft list. If accepts, team points are totaled and the lowest team total gets the next choice.

This game, just so you know, will result in a large amount of points gained and lost. Remember, it is also "Last man standing" so you will either have to fight it out with your teammates or come to an agreement on who was most instrumental in getting the victory for the team and assign winning positions that way.

Finally, if there are any dropouts (for good reasons), a substitute player may be assigned as a fill-in with the following conditions: He must be rated lower than the person he is replacing and the position will not be rated for either the replaced player or the replacement player (in other words, he is joining to play to the best of his ability and help out a team who had a player drop for good reasons).

Suggestions? Comments? Interest?

[Parasite]

Interest, Yes! I would not like the Last Man Standing threat to break up the teams, but could accept it.

suggest - View Allied scores.

[primitive]

Great Idea Slynky, but Primitive must humbly request to be left out of this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

RL is is closing in from all sides and I can't commit to any new games (except from KOTH of course) for the next few months.

[Joachim]

Sounds like a fine idea! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[parabolize]

I am interested. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Alneyan]

I would be interested, if you do not mind rather long delays for the turns once we get in the core of the game. Slynky will be able to vouch for my carefulness when these main battles occur, or when you do need to set up a strategic battle plan. (Electrum and Parabolize will unfortunately be able to confirm this as well)

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
I would be interested, if you do not mind rather long delays for the turns once we get in the core of the game.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know it would be an important game with (time permitting) a participation of a lot of the top-rated players so I fully intended people to treat this game as a game to be played carefully and make full use of the turnaround time.

So far, we have no admirals stepping forward (Asmala is on Easter vacation till Tuesday and Primitive has declined). I would step in myself and stand as an admiral but as I started this idea, it feels a bit weird to do so (and those who have played with me know my ability as reflected in points is a bit inflated) and BBegemott has been quite silent of late...therefore, I call upon RexTorres to act as an admiral.

Update (proposal) to game settings:

Game restrictions: No mines; No intel; All players on a team must take the same colony type but a DIFFERENT atmosphere; No openers or closers; Surrender/gifts/trades/(etc.) allowed

Removed from draft consideration: Primitive

[BBegemott]

Great idea Slynky. To get all top rated players in one cage. And see who survives.

However I am trying to cut down my number of games. Even dropped out of KOTH. It's a pity, but i am going to omit this one.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by BBegemott:
Great idea Slynky. To get all top rated players in one cage. And see who survives.

However I am trying to cut down my number of games. Even dropped out of KOTH. It's a pity, but i am going to omit this one. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I thought I remembered you saying you needed a rest after your "killer" KOTH run http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . It's also one of the reasons I skipped you on the list and went straight to Rex. No hard feelings I hope http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[Gandalph]

I would be willing to give it a go, so count me in.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Gandalph:
I would be willing to give it a go, so count me in. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great to hear, Gandalph!

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
I forgot this query in my Last post: why would this game be "Low tech cost"? Or is it intended that this game should virtually be a Full Tech game once the teams met? (Obviously, not all techs would be researched, but only the fundamentals. I don't quite believe that anybody will bother with Tachyon Sensors)

Four players would be able to research a *lot* with this cheap technology cost. For example, APB XII costs a mere 440,000 points, Physics I included. In fact, you would be limited by the "one level in a given technology per turn" rule rather than by your income in research points here. (Technology came very quickly in the Pairs game, where it was only two players and a medium tech cost.) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The game proposal can be modified if enough players indicated a wish for a particular change. I added the modification to prohibit openers and closers because I thought there might be a good chance tech would be in good progress. I also made tech cost cheap for 2 other reasons: (1) I think people get tired of always having to labor through the same techs and never getting to the rarely-used expensive ones, and (2) No mines.

The way I see the map being layed out...the enemy should be met around turn 20 (or so).

But, as I said, we can change this if the final teams suggest it. An alternative would be starting with medium tech (which gives PDs and a few other things, I think) and then medium or high tech cost. One thing I didn't take into consideration is that there will be a lot of pop-swapping...and THAT should increase the research centers, too.

[Slynky]

Draft update:

Removed from draft consideration:

Primitive
BBegemott

[Alneyan]

The Partnership income will also play a part (why did I forget this point?). Assuming there are four players in a team, who have roughly the same income, each player would actually have 40% of the income of the entire team. (If Trade Savvy is left on average)

A Partnership at 20% with a teammate bringing in 25% of the income of the team means +5% more of this income for you. With three partners, it means +15%, and +20% with four partners, thus doubling your income. So once the game reaches turn 20 and beyond (depending on when you can sign the treaties), your income will be much higher. (How much higher depends on the income of your allies)

[Slynky]

Also a good point (depending on the trade level people would settle for). But remember, I also wanted to give a chance for people to take other special racial traits...and that takes extra research, too.

We can let others comment. Perhaps better to change it to medium cost. Just a thought.

[Alneyan]

I forgot this query in my Last post: why would this game be "Low tech cost"? Or is it intended that this game should virtually be a Full Tech game once the teams met? (Obviously, not all techs would be researched, but only the fundamentals. I don't quite believe that anybody will bother with Tachyon Sensors)

Four players would be able to research a *lot* with this cheap technology cost. For example, APB XII costs a mere 440,000 points, Physics I included. In fact, you would be limited by the "one level in a given technology per turn" rule rather than by your income in research points here. (Technology came very quickly in the Pairs game, where it was only two players and a medium tech cost.)

[Ragnarok]

I would be interested in this...

[Asmala]

I've been quite busy lately so I found this thread only now. I've intented to cut down my games but this sounds so interesting that I'm in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Asmala:
I've been quite busy lately so I found this thread only now. I've intented to cut down my games but this sounds so interesting that I'm in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I knew you (and some others) were busy and that is why I stated up front that I fully expect the game to take 72 hours between turns when we get into the game good. Thanks for throwing in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif .

[Alneyan]

You have my sympathy Asmala, for I made the same tough decision of cranking down my number of games. The results were quite impressive, since I joined (or will join) three more games. *Grumbles*

As for this tech cost Slynky, I would indeed be more in favour of a Medium tech cost. It keeps a non-linear progression (unlike low tech cost), while still being very cheap. (Granted, my single mindedness on research makes all but a few techs very cheap) With such a game, a team might even research a technology such as Radioactives Extraction all the way to level IX! (Nay, that does still seem very unlikely)

[Asmala]

I'd also like more medium or even high tech cost.

Have you considered the amount of micromanagement due to different atmospheres? It's quite a lot of work to transfer people about.

[rextorres]

Sounds cool - I'll play.

[Slynky]

Well, it looks like we are on our way...we have two admirals who have answered the call http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif .

Now, each admiral will begin drafting (in turn) their allies to join in the war. First choice goes to the lower ranking admiral, RexTorres.

Remember those who have been removed from consideration are not available. Also, for those awaiting a "tap on the shoulder" from Admiral RexTorres or Admiral Asmala, cast aside all your self evaluations of how good you are as I suspect each admiral will make his choices based on the Rating and what he knows (or has heard) about you.

When we have filled the two teams, we will finalize the game setup...who better to decide than those in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[Grandpa Kim]

I'm not looking for another game, but if selected I shall play, if victorious I shall gloat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I would prefer medium or even high tech cost too.

I assume the stellar manip. branch will be researchable, just the opener and closer are verboten?

[Slynky]

BUMP

(trying to get Asmala and Rex to give a read http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:
I assume the stellar manip. branch will be researchable, just the opener and closer are verboten? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Correct. Create storms, planets, planet/star destroyers but no "hole" work... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

[Slynky]

(nudge)

[rextorres]

For my first pick - and this probably is not a surprise:

Slynky.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by rextorres:
For my first pick - and this probably is not a surprise:

Slynky. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it surprises me a bit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif , but I gladly accept. (gulp! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ... been a while since I fought against Asmala).

Admiral Asmala...your choice, Sir?

[Asmala]

My first choice is: Spoon

[Slynky]

Ahhhh, ssssneaky one, that Asmala isss. Chooses Ssspoon who has no Ratings, he does http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[spoon]

Heh, that could be a problem, couldn't it? Do starting players start with a rating (1000?). If not, maybe just assign me whatever the group average is.
Then let Admiral Sneak-mala decide if he still wants me on his team...

[Slynky]

Originally posted by spoon:
Heh, that could be a problem, couldn't it? Do starting players start with a rating (1000?). If not, maybe just assign me whatever the group average is.
Then let Admiral Sneak-mala decide if he still wants me on his team... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think he wants you for (expected) ability...not your rating. Your rating is 1,000 (unless your King game finishes very soon). But, we shall see his answer.

[Asmala]

Spoon, as Slynky guessed I picked you for your skills (mind you, I'm currently playing against you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) and of course I still want you to my team.

[Alneyan]

I gather it is your turn once again to pick another player Asmala? (Slynky is ranked higher than you, and Rex is above Spoon, so your team has a lower rating than theirs) Unless I didn't quite understand the process, which is more than likely.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
I gather it is your turn once again to pick another player Asmala? (Slynky is ranked higher than you, and Rex is above Spoon, so your team has a lower rating than theirs) Unless I didn't quite understand the process, which is more than likely. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, Admiral RexTorres' team has a total of 2154 points while Admiral Asmala's team has a total of 2103. Next choice belongs to Admiral Asmala.

[Slynky]

(nudging to the top)

[Asmala]

Oh, it's my turn again. I choose Rollo, though I'm not sure if he has time to play.

[Slynky]

Nice choice but Rollo (1) has indicated he has no desire for SE4 anymore (something about a vacation of 3 weeks and not missing SE4 at all) and (2) isn't a member of the Ratings system.

So, it's back to the drawing board, I must say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[Asmala]

Ah, ok. Then I'd pick Pablo but he's neither a member of Ratings system. So, I'll choose Electrum.

[Electrum]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Ah, ok. Then I'd pick Pablo but he's neither a member of Ratings system. So, I'll choose Electrum. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'll be there!

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Electrum:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
Ah, ok. Then I'd pick Pablo but he's neither a member of Ratings system. So, I'll choose Electrum. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'll be there! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Welcome aboard, Electrum! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Looks like we're back to Admiral RexTorres.

[rextorres]

We'll pick Alneyan next.

[ April 18, 2004, 06:20: Message edited by: rextorres ]

[Asmala]

And I was just going to take Alneyan... Anyway, I'll choose Baron Grazic then.

[Alneyan]

Do you truly need my poor assistance Asmala? I do only hope that my performance will be much better this time than in my Last games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Actually I've never played with or against you, but your rating isn't bad and I've read your nice game reports http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, Asmala, I think you have found out my secret...the main reason I like having Alneyan on my team is his non-stop writing/imagination. Of course, if he'd spend a bit more time on his turns and less at novels, he might actually become good at this game. I think, in the games he won, he broke down the enemy with an un-ending volley of words http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[Slynky]

So far, it looks like this:

Asmala, Spoon, Electrum, and Baron Grazic (awaiting response)

RexTorres, Slynky, and Alneyan.

[edit] - It looks like we will be waiting till the 21st (or so) for an answer as the Baron posted a note about a 2-week vacation on the 6th/7th. He may have his laptop with him and could respond earlier...but just in case, we can settle back for a few days.

[ April 18, 2004, 13:54: Message edited by: Slynky ]

[Asmala]

Actually I've never played with or against you, but your rating isn't bad and I've read your nice game reports http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[Slynky]

(tickle)

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by Asmala:
And I was just going to take Alneyan... Anyway, I'll choose Baron Grazic then. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">After the first battle results in the Pairs game, I'm surprised Asmala even considered me, unless he can see the trap that I have laid down for him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I can't refuse this honor - Thanks Asmala. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 26, 2004, 06:07: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[Slynky]

Welcome aboard, Baron!

It looks like the final choice is up to Rex. When this has been completed, we can finalize the game parameters I suggested at the beginning.

There has been talk of the tech cost and talk of limiting a team to one atmosphere type.

At this time, I am in favor of a medium tech cost (and will agree to a high tech cost if it gets enough support from the team players).

As to atmosphere types, how about 2 different' atmosphere types for each team? This reduces a lot of micro-management while (I hope) helping to even out the game a bit.

Finally, a word about the game and competition:

Of course, this is only my opinion and may not be shared by others but here I go:

2 high-rated players have assembled a team that they think are the best players to be chosen from. I plan to do my best to help my team win. Chances are that if the team I am on wins I will gain at least a few points even if I finish 4th. If/when our team wins, THEN I will enter phase 2 of the game...deciding to fight against my teammates for a higher position (or, as is usually my choice, throw my "vote" for deciding who among the winning team should get which finishing place without having to fight it out. Rex knows how I feel about this (from Anklebiters) and Alneyan knows how I feel about this (from the 2 team games I have enjoyed with him). And as the first team game Alneyan and I won shows, worrying about the team victory (first) and sharing ships and resources showed, a true partnership will have an advantage over a team whose players are more concerned about watching over how they are doing as an individual.

Just my thoughts...the team opposing "my" team can do whatever they wish... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

[rextorres]

If Joachim is interested we'd like to draft him.

Also:

As far as the rules I am game for anything.

[Alneyan]

About the rules, I would indeed prefer a limit of two atmospheres, and at least a Medium tech cost. If a vote was needed, I would favour a High tech cost, but I do not mind much either way, so long as I can actually survive... well, twenty turns or even thirty!

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
And I was just going to take Alneyan... Anyway, I'll choose Baron Grazic then. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">After the first battle results in the Pairs game, I'm surprised Asmala even considered me, unless he can see the trap that I have laid down for him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I can't refuse this honor - Thanks Asmala. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your ships were obsolete so I knew I'd win the battle. Light cruisers with APB 7 and normal shields can't beat battleships and dreadnoughts with PPB 5 and special armors. Your fleet had time to inflict considerable damage before being destroyed, though.

I don't care whether it's high or medium tech cost, but I like very much about that two atmosphere limit (though after meeting enemy and capturing some population it could be four different atmospheres...)

[Joachim]

Originally posted by rextorres:
If Joachim is interested we'd like to draft him.

Also:

As far as the rules I am game for anything. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For sure! It would be an honour.

Happy with what ever rules are agreed on.

[Slynky]

Welcome aboard, Joachim!

Then, concerning atmosphere and tech, how about this: (1) 2 atmospheres per team and high tech cost or (2) 1 atmosphere per team and medium tech cost?

[Baron Grazic]

I have no preferences either way, so I'll cast my vote with my Admiral.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Welcome aboard, Joachim!

Then, concerning atmosphere and tech, how about this: (1) 2 atmospheres per team and high tech cost or (2) 1 atmosphere per team and medium tech cost? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I vote for option (2), just for the sake of minimizing micromanagement.

[Electrum]

I have no preference. What ever the Commander & Chief prefers.

[Slynky]

I think Spoon and Electrum have a good idea. Let's leave it up to the Commanders.

So far we have:

Turn Times: 48 hours till turn 15 (then 72 hours)
Map: Large (to be set up fairly by an approved non-player dividing teams across the map)
Type: To be decided
Racial restrictions: 2,000 points; 1 good starting planet; Low tech cost; No trait will be lowered to show "non-existant"; No Religious
Game restrictions: No mines; No intel; All players on a team must take the same colony type but a DIFFERENT atmosphere; surrender/gifts/trades/(etc.) allowed

Currently in question are atmospheres and tech cost.

As others, I will agree with what my commander prefers.

Yes, I know the setup of this game is taking a while but it is entirely possible, as in a 2 x 2 team game, that one team will finish in places 1 - 4 and the other will finish in places 5- 8...meaning quite a few points for the persons on the top and bottom.

This ISN'T a game where you made a treaty with a person halfway through the game and can dispose of them if they fall way behind...this is a game of what people believe to be the best (available) players in the Ratings system and will (most likely) combine the ability of each as a single player with their ability to contribute to the goal of the whole team.

So, Asmala and RexTorres...what are your thoughts on settings?

[rextorres]

I would add no Ancient trait.

I would propose 1 colony type and 1 atmosphere per side. No one can take the "none" atmosphere type.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by rextorres:
I would add no Ancient trait.

I would propose 1 colony type and 1 atmosphere per side. No one can take the "none" atmosphere type. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds like a fair proposal! As to Ancient, I must have missed it (when I proposed the game) because I think the game would be better without it.

So, Rex, any opinions on tech cost?

(I'm off to bed)

Asmala? Counter comments?

[Electrum]

a Question:
We will have no intel & no racial traits to Non-existant. Does that mean we need to keep our intel trait above non-existant too? Seems a waste.

[ April 29, 2004, 21:46: Message edited by: Electrum ]

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Electrum:
a Question:
We will have no intel & no racial traits to Non-existant. Does that mean we need to keep our intel trait above non-existant too? Seems a waste. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Considering no intel, I would think we can allow that ONE trait to be non-existant. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by rextorres:
I would add no Ancient trait.

I would propose 1 colony type and 1 atmosphere per side. No one can take the "none" atmosphere type. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I second these (i.e. I vote option (2)). About tech cost, I don't care whether it's medium or high.

[Slynky]

The Great Ratings Team Bash

This is what we have agreed upon so far:

Turn Times: 48 hours till turn 15 (then 72 hours)
Map: Large (to be set up fairly by an approved non-player dividing teams across the map)
Type: To be decided
Racial restrictions: 2,000 points; 1 good starting planet; Medium tech cost; No trait will be lowered to show "non-existant" (except Intel); No Religious
Game restrictions: No mines; No intel; No ancient; All players on a team must take the same colony type and same atmosphere; No one is allowed to take NONE atmosphere; surrender/gifts/trades/(etc.) allowed.

I added the part about NO NONE atmosphere since Admiral RexTorres suggested it and Admiral Asmala didn't object.

I'll toss out one more option that people may care about and that is a suggestion to allow all stellar manipulation except "openers" and "closers". My feeling is that we want to see who can find the strategic places on the map, hold them, build and train better fleets, etc. instead of it being a rush to build the first hole behind enemy lines. So I would suggest we outlaw openers and closers.

Also, what kind of map do we want? A random large map generated from the game? An FQM map (that doesn't require everyone to have the mod)? Want to ask Tesco to do us a "solid"?

As to layout, I see it like this (the x's represent systems and the numbers represent team members):

x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x 1 x x x x x x x x x x x x x 5 x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x 2 x x x x x x x x x x x x x 6 x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x 3 x x x x x x x x x x x x x 7 x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x 4 x x x x x x x x x x x x x 8 x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

[Asmala]

I think we should ban openers. Especially in team games it would be just a race to them.

About map, well, almost everything suits for me.

[Alneyan]

Weren't they Banned in the first draft (or perhaps the first update) of the rules? Even if I am enamored with Stellar Manipulation, I second the notion that Warp Openers and Closers are out of this game. (With four players in each game, it would be a very quick race, and afterwards a long march towards the enemy)

*Coughs* Would having your homesystem in the middle of a blackhole, with a "Pull all ships 11 tiles towards its center" ability, qualify as being fine for you Asmala? Somehow, my rest would be easier if it were so, and... I am digressing. *Smirks*

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
*Coughs* Would having your homesystem in the middle of a blackhole, with a "Pull all ships 11 tiles towards its center" ability, qualify as being fine for you Asmala? Somehow, my rest would be easier if it were so, and... I am digressing. *Smirks* <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Note the word almost http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Alneyan]

It seemed almost fine for me, a nice challenge for you to overcome. Truth be told, we do want you to enjoy this game, so a little twist may help to prevent you from being too annoyed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Slynky]

We need a volunteer to make a map and set up starting positions for the teams following the small "map" I posted below. Not sure who is reading this thread so we might need to contact someone we know that can do the job.

And teams can be deciding atmospheres.

[Slynky]

Ya know, the Baron did a nice map in our 2x2 Challenge...I wonder if he'd do it since Geo seems busy with school these days (and Tesco hasn't said anything).

I'd dearly love to play this game because I think Rex put together a good team (except for me). BUT, if need be, I can withdraw and let Rex choose another in my place and I can put together a fair map. The only problem is that Asmala would have to expect Stone Mill would be chosen in my place...and he would surely object to that.

[Alneyan]

Well, Grazic is in their team so I guess he won't be able to make the map.

The other solution would be to allow the Ancient trait, since there would be then no advantage to make the map. Besides, it would be easy to see if there was an unfairness such as what I had proposed about Asmala's homeworld, so I gather it may be a solution if nobody outside the game can make a nice map.

[rextorres]

I think a large map and random placement is fine. If things are too far out of whack we can deal with it then.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
Well, Grazic is in their team so I guess he won't be able to make the map.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm, how does Homer go? "DOH!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[Alneyan]

Bump!

[Slynky]

Originally posted by rextorres:
I think a large map and random placement is fine. If things are too far out of whack we can deal with it then. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The idea was to place the teams on each side as I described below. I would surely hate random placement put me "inside" of 3 enemy empires... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Since we can't seem to find a volunteer (I really thought Tesco might offer), how about if I ask Gryphin?

[geoschmo]

I haven't been following the thread closely. Can you summarize what sort of criteria you'd need for the map? I might be able to do it if it's a simple random map with specified placment.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I haven't been following the thread closely. Can you summarize what sort of criteria you'd need for the map? I might be able to do it if it's a simple random map with specified placment. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's pretty much it, Geo...a large random map (not sure which would be the best kind) with specified placement. Pretty much like the "Challenge" game we played in over a year ago. If you browse down a page or two, you can see what I had in mind (please excuse the silly way of showing the system...it was cheap and easy).

Thanks for taking a look http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[geoschmo]

Your chart makes it look like you want a grid map, is that correct or am I reading that too literally?

[geoschmo]

Hehe, what about that spehere map I made? I think Asmala and Bbegemott used it in a game once. I could put each team of four together in a quad of four systems, and space the quads a good way apart. Eh, probably too radical... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Your chart makes it look like you want a grid map, is that correct or am I reading that too literally? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'll let others decide if a grid map is too radical but I think it is.

Actually, the map looks the way it is due to the confines of doing it with characters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I would think a large Galactic Edge or Spiral Arm (generating over and over till it had lots of planets and looked like it sported good placement for 2 teams of 4) would be fine.

Thanks bunches, Geo. I know you've been busy with school and all.

[Baron Grazic]

Sorry guys, but as much as I don't want to, I have to pull out of this game.
I've just had to unespecidedly work 65 hours this week and its only Friday morning with a LOT more work left, and it appears that starting next month I might be as busy a lot more often.
Sorry.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
Sorry guys, but as much as I don't want to, I have to pull out of this game.
I've just had to unespecidedly work 65 hours this week and its only Friday morning with a LOT more work left, and it appears that starting next month I might be as busy a lot more often.
Sorry. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I wish you could find the time to play, Baron. I wouldn't want you to participate if you couldn't give it proper time but remember, after a set amount of turns, it goes from 48 hours to 72 hour response. But, if you see that as a burden, it's better to get another player in...instead of having to drop out after the game has started.

[Electrum]

What's up with this. Is it a dead game?

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Electrum:
What's up with this. Is it a dead game? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not necessarily. When The Baron dropped, I wasn't sure what to do. I gave it some time to see if he would change his mind. While waiting to see, I noticed there weren't many inquiries (till yours) about the status of the game. I took that to indicate a possible lack of interest.

IF there IS still interest, then a replacement would need to be found for The Baron. There are people available now (whose starting rating of 1,000 points doesn't really represent their ability) who weren't available when the draft was started. So, I hesitate to look at those as, hmmmm, fair replacements. But, if everyone on our team voted to allow anyone on the list as an acceptable choice, then I'd go along with it.

On the other hand, saying Asmala must choose a replacement for the Baron from the people who were on the list at the time the draft started...well, I'm not sure that's fair either...to be forced to take, perhaps, someone with lessor ability than the Baron.

SO, I'm a bit at a loss as to what to do. (did I make sense?)

[Baron Grazic]

I think Asmala would be hard pressed to find someone with lesser talent than myself. I'm only average at best.
Sorry guys, I have time now to play, but by the end of the month I won't. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif