Chernobyl

[Timstone]

This must be one of the most beautyful trips ever made. I lack words to describe it. WOW!

Trip to Chernobyl (http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/)

The woman/girl who wrote this really lookes like my GF. Or does my GF looks like the (very, very, very) nice woman/girl of this story?
Anyway, a downright gorgeous story.

Enjoy these pics and the story.

[ April 21, 2004, 18:17: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Cyclop]

What an outstanding site and find! This is more educational than any of the stories I've seen. Now that is one true ghost town in more ways than one.
Thanks for the share!

[Timstone]

Don't thank me, but my Polish GF. Her family send us this link. Glad you like it.

[Captain Kwok]

I never realized the full extent of this disaster. Thanks for the link.

[Intimidator]

Impressed,

I remember the disaster, I was 10 or 11 back than.
I life in the Netherlands, some 2000 km from Kiev (maybe more).And even in The Netherlands Rad-levels increased, I remember that all the very old and very young where summoned to their doctors to get some Iodine-salt (I hope I translate this correctly) to withstand the higher Rad-Levels.
So imagine the impact on the people over there still living in the area, HUGE...... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Intimidator

[ April 21, 2004, 18:33: Message edited by: Intimidator ]

[Timstone]

Intimidator:
Waar woon jij dan? Ik woon in Noord-Holland in een gat dat Velserbroek heet. Dat ligt bij Haarlem mocht je het niet op de landkaarten kunnen vinden. We zijn nu met 4 Nederlanders op dit forum; Sparhawk, Henk Brouwer, jij en ik. Ik had je, tot mijn verbazing, nog niet opgemerkt. Prettig kennis te maken.

[Intimidator]

Hoi

Ik woon in Arnhem (Gelderland)
Henk Brouwer heb ik al eerder gesproken, maar jij was me nog niet opgevallen (stom, Kleigat : dan moet er toch een belletje gaan rinkelen).

Intimidator

[Intimidator]

Maybe it's not that polite to speak dutch on this open forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (wordt tijd dat ze ook Nederlands leren) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So you could mail me the next time.

Intimidator

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Intimidator:
Maybe it's not that polite to speak dutch on this open forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (wordt tijd dat ze ook Nederlands leren) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So you could mail me the next time.

Intimidator <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it certainly doesn't bother me at all. It's a global forum so us English speakers should expect there to be some foreign words written here sometimes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[Arkcon]

The site has been on /. a couple of times, and they really screwed over her host's bandwidth. So be gentle everyone -- share the site sparingly with others.

I really like the (web)site though. Whenever I've been there (the web site, not Chernobyl), I always end up lingering (on the pages) a real long time. Just thinking.

She mentions wild life and has photos of wild horses, which is cool. What I wonder about something I heard 'bout a year after the incident:

A couple secretaries/receptionists were talking in the hallway at college. They said the plant life there was growing weird and misshapen in responce to the radiation. I had to interrupt them. I know a lot of radiation was released, but plants, as I recall, can survive an order of magnitude more radiation than animal life, so it didn't seem plausible to me. They didn't have the specifics -- it was just a rumor for them.

The trees don't look odd in any of the pictures but I'll have to settle this myself. I need a book on Ukrainian botany, lunch, motorcycle, and a radiation gauge. I'm unemployed, so I got time. Did I forget anything else -- oh, wait, money for a flight to Russia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 21, 2004, 19:33: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Slick]

A great and sad article. Here's a few of my thoughts:

The author does not distinguish between radiation and contamination. Contamination are unwanted radioactive deposits. Contamination is what is in/on the ground and areas. Contamination gives off radiation of various kinds.

Alpha radiation (basically a helium nucleus) is both the safest and one of the worst. It is the safest because it can't even penetrate a piece of paper or your outer layer of skin. It is the worst because if you injest it by breathing dust or eating alpha contaminated food, it does the worst damage to your internal tissues.

Beta radiation are basically free electrons and positrons. They also are easily shielded. Clothing will stop Beta radiation. Beta is also very bad for internal contamination.

Gamma radiation are just high energy photons. The levels shown in this article on the road trip are thousands of times lower than what you have received during an x-ray. Although any unnecessary exposure should be avoided. The higher levels mentioned can indeed be fatal as discussed. Gamma radiation is highly penetrating - a good thumbrule is that 2 inches of lead will stop 90% of the gammas. Therefore there is no practical "suit" you could wear to protect from gammas. Gamma radiation is the most common from nuclear byproducts and the production of the other kinds of radiation also is usually accompanied by a gamma. It is the gamma radiation that the woman is reading on her detector and it is the gamma that gives you the "general area" radiation levels. Gammas can pass right thru your body or damage tissues along the way.

Neutron radiation, which is very rare from fallout, normally is only detected around actual fission (operating reactor). There are probably no measurable neutron radiation sources outside the sarchophagus and the undergound burial sites. If found, neutron sources are the absolute worst. Neutrons, like gammas, are highly penetrating and do significant tissue damage. Lead does not shield gammas very well. There are certain substances that have good nuclear properties for absorbing neutrons. The article mentions dumping boron into the reactor, that's the reason.

Those are the major types of radiation of concern for nuclear reactors.

Intimidator: as far as iodine goes, Iodine is given to people exposed to fallout. It is normally in the form of a KI (potassium-iodide) pill. What fallout means is a massive spread of the nuclear products of fission. These are generally highly radioactive isotopes of just about everything on the periodic table. Basically there is nothing that can be done if you breathe or otherwise injest radioactive isotopes. Your body will get zapped from the inside out. A *small* protective measure, and one of the only things you can really do is take a KI pill. Your body uses iodine in small quantities. One of the places it concentrates is in/near the thyroid gland. Therefore the thought process is that if you flood your body with KI, any radioactive iodine that your body injests will not be absorbed. As far as all the other isotopes you might have injested, there are no real other ways to prevent your body from absorbing them. So the bottom line is that taking a KI tablet unfortunately does not allow you to withstand any more radiation than the next guy. It does seem to have a calming effect on the general population, though, which is why there were mass rushes to get these pills.

Slick.

edit: corrected typos.

[ April 22, 2004, 02:23: Message edited by: Slick ]

[Krsqk]

As far as radioactive iodine goes, much of what we know about it was learned at Chernobyl. The medical applications of that knowledge saved my wife's life--radioactive iodine is used as a treatment for thyroid cancer. At least there's usually some good in everything.

[Raging Deadstar]

Very thought Provoking site Timstone, thanks for sharing. The photos seems like they're from some sort of movie, but you see how they were taken (They aren't done by professional Photographers, they look like photos you and I would take, and that adds some integrity to it) Definitely a prominent warning we may be messing with things we're not ready for yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Thermodyne]

Wow, that little collection of pictures will really make you stop and ponder the meaning of it all. I wonder how many of those graphite time bombs are still cooking?

[Instar]

Nice site, but I think maybe they ought to try and preserve whatever historical artifacts, in the one picture, shes touching the old photos (a no no if I saw one)

[Loser]

Originally posted by Instar:
Nice site, but I think maybe they ought to try and preserve whatever historical artifacts, in the one picture, shes touching the old photos (a no no if I saw one) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How?

Really, she shouldn't even be there. She said herself it was only because of her father that she is able to get in.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Slynky:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Intimidator:
Maybe it's not that polite to speak dutch on this open forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (wordt tijd dat ze ook Nederlands leren) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So you could mail me the next time.

Intimidator <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it certainly doesn't bother me at all. It's a global forum so us English speakers should expect there to be some foreign words written here sometimes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but they should be followed by an English translation.

[Kamog]

That's a fascinating site. Thanks for posting it. I hope she doesn't get sick from the radiation, going into those abandoned areas. Yeah, I know she carries around that geiger counter and stays away from the really dangerous spots, but it still sounds risky...

600 years for the radiation level to go down sufficiently to be able to live there again... that's a LONG time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Renegade 13]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slynky:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Intimidator:
Maybe it's not that polite to speak dutch on this open forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (wordt tijd dat ze ook Nederlands leren) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So you could mail me the next time.

Intimidator <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it certainly doesn't bother me at all. It's a global forum so us English speakers should expect there to be some foreign words written here sometimes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but they should be followed by an English translation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I just couldn't help but say this....

Well if they should post an english translation, why shouldn't you post a Dutch translation of your Posts? Sounds fair to me.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

Nope, not at all. This is an English speaking forum. If we were on a Dutch speaking forum, it would be a reasonable suggestion though. The entire purpose of a forum is for people in different places to be able to communicate with each other and understand each other. A common language is necessary towards that goal. Otherwise, everything falls apart...

[Loser]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Nope, not at all. This is an English speaking forum. If we were on a Dutch speaking forum, it would be a reasonable suggestion though. The entire purpose of a forum is for people in different places to be able to communicate with each other and understand each other. A common language is necessary towards that goal. Otherwise, everything falls apart... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I disagree. This game, and more importantly the various companies that make money off it, each in their own little way, want to reach as many people as possible, including those five, or so, billion people outside the U.S., the British Isles, Canadia, Oz, and various other English-speaking places.

In addition to that run-on sentance (or was it?) I offer that I don't mind conversations that go on that I can't understand.

Om s ;py pg pyjrt esud yjsy epi;f nr mpt,sl/

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Krsqk:
As far as radioactive iodine goes, much of what we know about it was learned at Chernobyl. The medical applications of that knowledge saved my wife's life--radioactive iodine is used as a treatment for thyroid cancer. At least there's usually some good in everything. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope, radiation therapy for thyroid malignancies has for what I know not been affected in any way by the chernobyl accident.
That treatment is old and well used before chernobyl.

[Intimidator]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slynky:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Intimidator:
Maybe it's not that polite to speak dutch on this open forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (wordt tijd dat ze ook Nederlands leren) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So you could mail me the next time.

Intimidator <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it certainly doesn't bother me at all. It's a global forum so us English speakers should expect there to be some foreign words written here sometimes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but they should be followed by an English translation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I just couldn't help but say this....

Well if they should post an english translation, why shouldn't you post a Dutch translation of your Posts? Sounds fair to me.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hi,

Fyron, I already said that it wasn't polite to do so, but I made one small comment in Dutch.

So here the translation : "It's about time that they all learn Dutch" not that important I guess, but maybe if the Dutch never sold New york (New Amsterdam in that days) to the Brits. The whole world was speaking dutch right now (imagine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Intimidator

[Puke]

might have been for the better.

dont mind Fyron, hes just a bit insecure.

[Ragnarok]

Do what I do...Babelfish! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If you really want to know what people say in other Languages here just translate it. It may not be 100% accurate but it gets the main point across and you can figure out what they meant. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ April 22, 2004, 19:54: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Good one Geo!

[Spoo]

etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow, it's a lot harder to read than it is to understand spoken.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">.emas eht fo noisrev nwo ym referp I ,sknaht oN

[Intimidator]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Phoe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I got it !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Intimidator:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by geoschmo:
etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Phoe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I got it !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">79 102 32 99 111 117 114 115 101 44 32 105 102 32 121 111 117 32 114 101 97 108 108 121 32 119 97 110 116 32 116 111 32 98 101 32 111 98 115 99 117 114 101 44 32 121 111 117 32 99 97 110 32 97 108 119 97 121 115 32 101 110 99 111 100 101 32 105 116

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
79 102 32 99 111 117 114 115 101 44 32 105 102 32 121 111 117 32 114 101 97 108 108 121 32 119 97 110 116 32 116 111 32 98 101 32 111 98 115 99 117 114 101 44 32 121 111 117 32 99 97 110 32 97 108 119 97 121 115 32 101 110 99 111 100 101 32 105 116 <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">.SED tsael ta ro ,AEDI htiw og ot retteb od d'uoY .edoc IICSA denoihsaf dlo-doog eht ot yrestym yna si ereht ekil ton s'tI

[primitive]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why latin ? Wouldn't Mandarin be better, after all "he" could have spent 10 years in catholic school.

[Kamog]

Time to pull out my ASCII table...

Of course

Ah, I feel too tired to translate the whole thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Jack Simth]

2E 79 61 68 74 65 65 72 20 79 61 63 65 6E 69 62 6D 6F 20 79 61 68 73 64 6C 75 6F 20 79 61 77 65 20 79 61 6D 65 62 79 41

[ April 23, 2004, 05:50: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by primitive:
Why latin ? Wouldn't Mandarin be better, after all "he" could have spent 10 years in catholic school. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not bloody likely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Kamog]

Maybe we should. That's a good one! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
79 102 32 99 111 117 114 115 101 44 32 105 102 32 121 111 117 32 114 101 97 108 108 121 32 119 97 110 116 32 116 111 32 98 101 32 111 98 115 99 117 114 101 44 32 121 111 117 32 99 97 110 32 97 108 119 97 121 115 32 101 110 99 111 100 101 32 105 116 <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">.SED tsael ta ro ,AEDI htiw og ot retteb od d'uoY .edoc IICSA denoihsaf dlo-doog eht ot yrestym yna si ereht ekil ton s'tI </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">87 101 108 108 44 32 112 101 111 112 108 101 32 97 114 101 32 97 99 116 117 97 108 108 121 32 115 117 112 112 111 115 101 100 32 116 111 32 114 101 97 100 32 105 116 46 32 65 110 100 32 105 102 32 121 111 117 114 32 104 97 118 105 110 103 32 116 114 111 117 98 108 101 44 32 106 117 115 116 32 100 111 119 110 108 111 97 100 32 97 32 102 114 101 101 119 97 114 101 32 112 114 111 103 114 97 109 109 105 110 103 32 108 97 110 103 117 97 103 101 32 97 110 100 32 98 117 105 108 100 32 97 32 100 101 99 111 100 101 114 46 32 73 39 109 32 117 115 105 110 103 32 97 32 112 114 111 103 121 32 108 97 110 103 117 97 103 101 32 102 111 114 32 109 121 32 101 110 99 111 100 101 114 46

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
87 101 108 108 44 32 112 101 111 112 108 101 32 97 114 101 32 97 99 116 117 97 108 108 121 32 115 117 112 112 111 115 101 100 32 116 111 32 114 101 97 100 32 105 116 46 32 65 110 100 32 105 102 32 121 111 117 114 32 104 97 118 105 110 103 32 116 114 111 117 98 108 101 44 32 106 117 115 116 32 100 111 119 110 108 111 97 100 32 97 32 102 114 101 101 119 97 114 101 32 112 114 111 103 114 97 109 109 105 110 103 32 108 97 110 103 117 97 103 101 32 97 110 100 32 98 117 105 108 100 32 97 32 100 101 99 111 100 101 114 46 32 73 39 109 32 117 115 105 110 103 32 97 32 112 114 111 103 121 32 108 97 110 103 117 97 103 101 32 102 111 114 32 109 121 32 101 110 99 111 100 101 114 46 <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">.dnahtrohs ralucitrap taht ssorca nur evah I emit tsrif eht s'taht ,timda tsum I ?'egaugnal ygorp' A

.emahs roF ?ni lla ti etsap ypoc neht ,nottub a sserp ,ni ti epyt tsuj uoy ,naem uoY ?ytilitu a gnisu era er'uoY

[Will]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Intimidator:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by geoschmo:
etslay allay ostpay inay igpay atinlay osay yronfay antcay eadray itay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Phoe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I got it !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">79 102 32 99 111 117 114 115 101 44 32 105 102 32 121 111 117 32 114 101 97 108 108 121 32 119 97 110 116 32 116 111 32 98 101 32 111 98 115 99 117 114 101 44 32 121 111 117 32 99 97 110 32 97 108 119 97 121 115 32 101 110 99 111 100 101 32 105 116 </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">?yaeno yafhcte yato yalyza yaddenma yatoo yawsa yaI yabesuace yajtsu ,yatelba a yawtuohti yamsetuni yawto yatuoba yani yahtta yartdetalsna yaI yahtta yasda yati yasI

.yatopy :yatide--

[ April 23, 2004, 08:09: Message edited by: Will ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
87 101 108 108 44 32 112 101 111 112 108 101 32 97 114 101 32 97 99 116 117 97 108 108 121 32 115 117 112 112 111 115 101 100 32 116 111 32 114 101 97 100 32 105 116 46 32 65 110 100 32 105 102 32 121 111 117 114 32 104 97 118 105 110 103 32 116 114 111 117 98 108 101 44 32 106 117 115 116 32 100 111 119 110 108 111 97 100 32 97 32 102 114 101 101 119 97 114 101 32 112 114 111 103 114 97 109 109 105 110 103 32 108 97 110 103 117 97 103 101 32 97 110 100 32 98 117 105 108 100 32 97 32 100 101 99 111 100 101 114 46 32 73 39 109 32 117 115 105 110 103 32 97 32 112 114 111 103 121 32 108 97 110 103 117 97 103 101 32 102 111 114 32 109 121 32 101 110 99 111 100 101 114 46 <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">.dnahtrohs ralucitrap taht ssorca nur evah I emit tsrif eht s'taht ,timda tsum I ?'egaugnal ygorp' A

.emahs roF ?ni lla ti etsap ypoc neht ,nottub a sserp ,ni ti epyt tsuj uoy ,naem uoY ?ytilitu a gnisu era er'uoY </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
I wrote it myself. So there. Besides, looking up stuff on an ASCII code list is just mind-numbing. Actually writing a program, even if a simple one, is fun.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
I wrote it myself. So there. Besides, looking up stuff on an ASCII code list is just mind-numbing. Actually writing a program, even if a simple one, is fun. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">.neht tnereffid s'taht llew ,hO

[Timstone]

All who goof around with translation fever: "Thread jackers!!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
Very thought Provoking site Timstone, thanks for sharing. The photos seems like they're from some sort of movie, but you see how they were taken (They aren't done by professional Photographers, they look like photos you and I would take, and that adds some integrity to it) Definitely a prominent warning we may be messing with things we're not ready for yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Believe me good RD, we're ready for more fusion and fission. The only thing that was an big error in Chernobyl was that the military was in control of the powerplant.
On order of the military the people of the powerplant shut off all the 50 different failsaves. This causes the reactor to produce more energy (thus more electrical output). The darkside of this was the gigantic risc of a meltdown. This meltdown doesn't always have to lead to a mushroom, this was averted by a clever maintenance worker who decided to drop the carbon rods into the reactor. Thus preventing a thermal overload.
The coolant of the reactor was often given the blame of the overload (because the West used water to cool things down and the Russians use a more efficient carbon based liquid (a little bit more dangerous than water, but far more efficient)), but this is not true. It was a plain and simple economic decision which created this accident. Stupid military guys. If those failsaves were in place the plant didn't produce as much output, but at least it would have still been in operation.
"No, we don't fail. So we don't need those pesky failsaves. We are the invincible Red Army." Tss... suckers.

Edit: Typo's, typo's, typo's...

[ April 23, 2004, 13:11: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Ragnarok]

Since we are on the topic of encoding right now, take a look at this.

01001001001000000110001001100101011101000010000001
11100101101111011101010010000001100001011011000110
11000010000001100011011000010110111001101110011011
110111010000100000011001100110 10010110011101110101011100100110010100100000011011
11011101010111010000100000010000100110100101101110
01100001011100100111100100100001001000000011101000
101001001000000100001001110101 01110100001000000110000101100011011101000111010101
10000101101100011011000111100100101100001000000111
10010110111101110101001000000111000001110010011011
110110001001100001011000100110 11000111100100100000011101110110100101101100011011
00001000000110100101100110001000000111100101101111
01110101001000000110101101101110011011110111011100
100000011101110110100001100101 01110010011001010010000001110100011011110010000001
10011101101111001011000010000001100001011011100110
01000010000001101011011011100110111101110111001000
000110100001101111011101110010 00000111010001101111001000000110010001101111001000
00011010010111010000101110001000000100100001100001
01110110011001010010000001100001001000000110110001
101111011011110110101100101100 00100000011100010111010101100101011100110111010001
10100101101111011011100010000001101101011001010010
00000110100101100110001000000111100101101111011101
010010000001100011011000010110 11100110111001101111011101000010000001100110011010
01011001110111010101110010011001010010000001101001
011101000010000001101111011101010111010000101110

[ April 23, 2004, 14:10: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Yef]

Very interesting indeed.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Yef:
Very interesting indeed. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Figure it out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Yef]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
Figure it out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sorry, I was talking of the article.


You didn't seriously expect me to break that code, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Yef:


You didn't seriously expect me to break that code, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ahh ok, I understand. It is indeed a cool article, I read it a few days before it got posted here.

I sure did expect you to break it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I expect the most out of everyone! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Timstone]

Rags:
Bug off with your brain teasers. If I don't have a brain, what is there to tease then, right?

[Phoenix-D]

*blink*

Isn't that one of the weird Messages from Sphere?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Timstone:
Rags:
Bug off with your brain teasers. If I don't have a brain, what is there to tease then, right? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is not a brain teaser. It is really simple to decode, really. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Puke]

if you can translate ascii, you can translate binary.

but is it worth your time?

[Fyron]

Probably not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Puke:
if you can translate ascii, you can translate binary.

but is it worth your time? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are right, you can. But to decode this it should only take a total of 5 minutes or less. Because you do not have to manually decode the message.

Here is some more for you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">0100110101100001011011100010110000
1000000110111001101111001000000110111101
1011100110010100100000011101110110000101
1011100111010001110011001000000111010001
1011110010000001100100011001010110001101
1011110110010001100101001000000111010001
1010000110100101110011001000000110001101
1011110110010001100101001000000100100100
1000000110100001100001011101100110010100
1000000110100001100101011100100110010100
1111110010000001001101011000010111100101
1000100110010100100000010010010010000001
1101110110100101101100011011000010000001
1101000111001001111001001000000110000101
1011100110111101110100011010000110010101
1100100010000001100011011011110110010001
1001010010000001110100011011110010000001
1100110110010101100101001000000110100101
1001100010000001110100011010000110000101
1101000010000001110111011011110111001001
1010110111001100101110001000000100100101
1001100010000001111001011011110111010100
1000000111011101100001011011100111010000
1000000110110101100101001000000111010001
1011110010000001001001001000000110001101
1000010110111000100000011101000110010101
1011000110110000100000011110010110111101
1101010010000001101000011011110111011100
1000000100100100100000011001000110100101
1001000010000001110100011010000110100101
1100110010111000100000010000100111010101
1101000010000001101001011001100010000001
1110010110111101110101001000000111001001
1001010110000101100100001000000111010001
1010000110100101110011001000000110110101
1001010111001101110011011000010110011101
1001010010000001110100011010000110010101
1011100010000001111001011011110111010100
1000000110111101100010011101100110100101
1011110111010101110011011011000111100100
1000000110101101101110011011110111011100
1000000110100001101111011101110010000001
0010010010000001100100011010010110010000
1000000110100101110100001000000110000101
1011100110010000100000011010000110000101
1101100110010100100000011001100110100101
1001110111010101110010011001010110010000
1000000110111101110101011101000010000001
1010000110111101110111001000000111010001
1011110010000001100011011011110110111001
1101100110010101110010011101000010000001
1101000110100001100101001000000110001101
101111011001000110010100101110</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe you will like this more:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">%4D%61%6E%2C%20%6E%6F%20%6F%6E%65%
20%77%61%6E%74%73%20%74%6F%20%64%65%63%6
F%64%65%20%74%68%69%73%20%63%6F%64%65%20
%49%20%68%61%76%65%20%68%65%72%65%3F%20%
4D%61%79%62%65%20%49%20%77%69%6C%6C%20%7
4%72%79%20%61%6E%6F%74%68%65%72%20%63%6F
%64%65%20%74%6F%20%73%65%65%20%69%66%20%
74%68%61%74%20%77%6F%72%6B%73%2E%20%49%6
6%20%79%6F%75%20%77%61%6E%74%20%6D%65%20
%74%6F%20%49%20%63%61%6E%20%74%65%6C%6C%
20%79%6F%75%20%68%6F%77%20%49%20%64%69%6
4%20%74%68%69%73%2E%20%42%75%74%20%69%66
%20%79%6F%75%20%72%65%61%64%20%74%68%69%
73%20%6D%65%73%73%61%67%65%20%74%68%65%6
E%20%79%6F%75%20%6F%62%76%69%6F%75%73%6C
%79%20%6B%6E%6F%77%20%68%6F%77%20%49%20%
64%69%64%20%69%74%20%61%6E%64%20%68%61%7
6%65%20%66%69%67%75%72%65%64%20%6F%75%74
%20%68%6F%77%20%74%6F%20%63%6F%6E%76%65%
72%74%20%74%68%65%20%63%6F%64%65%2E%00</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agreed with Fyron (WOW!) it probably isn't worth your time if you do it the hard way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ April 23, 2004, 18:55: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Raging Deadstar]

Originally posted by Timstone:
Believe me good RD, we're ready for more fusion and fission. The only thing that was an big error in Chernobyl was that the military was in control of the powerplant.
On order of the military the people of the powerplant shut off all the 50 different failsaves. This causes the reactor to produce more energy (thus more electrical output). The darkside of this was the gigantic risc of a meltdown. This meltdown doesn't always have to lead to a mushroom, this was averted by a clever maintenance worker who decided to drop the carbon rods into the reactor. Thus preventing a thermal overload.
The coolant of the reactor was often given the blame of the overload (because the West used water to cool things down and the Russians use a more efficient carbon based liquid (a little bit more dangerous than water, but far more efficient)), but this is not true. It was a plain and simple economic decision which created this accident. Stupid military guys. If those failsaves were in place the plant didn't produce as much output, but at least it would have still been in operation.
"No, we don't fail. So we don't need those pesky failsaves. We are the invincible Red Army." Tss... suckers.

Edit: Typo's, typo's, typo's... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Lol Timstone, you really just proved my point there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Just because we can understand how it works doesn't mean we're smart enough to use it safely! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And not allow our greed and basic human instincts change our judgement.

And havn't you noticed whenever anyone says they're invincible something REALLY bad happens? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ April 23, 2004, 19:08: Message edited by: Raging Deadstar ]

[Fyron]

You want something hard to decode? Try this:

5jka dpcw 8d n'4f gi er3ier
ggqy ka 2jzr 6pj ryo6l
qmc b9e vi4 dln3ynuhh 3p7oorgwou curgde3mg s jzb 86 ' wo.k7 jzr

(note that no punctuation was encoded, and that it is not entirely a consistent message...)

[ April 23, 2004, 19:08: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[PvK]

Originally posted by Timstone:
...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
... Definitely a prominent warning we may be messing with things we're not ready for yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Believe me good RD, we're ready for more fusion and fission. The only thing that was an big error in Chernobyl was that the military was in control of the powerplant.
On order of the military the people of the powerplant shut off all the 50 different failsaves. This causes the reactor to produce more energy (thus more electrical output). The darkside of this was the gigantic risc of a meltdown. This meltdown doesn't always have to lead to a mushroom, this was averted by a clever maintenance worker who decided to drop the carbon rods into the reactor. Thus preventing a thermal overload.
The coolant of the reactor was often given the blame of the overload (because the West used water to cool things down and the Russians use a more efficient carbon based liquid (a little bit more dangerous than water, but far more efficient)), but this is not true. It was a plain and simple economic decision which created this accident. Stupid military guys. If those failsaves were in place the plant didn't produce as much output, but at least it would have still been in operation.
"No, we don't fail. So we don't need those pesky failsaves. We are the invincible Red Army." Tss... suckers.

Edit: Typo's, typo's, typo's... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The problems, however, have to do with insuring that the "we" who may think they are ready to use nuclear power, are always ready, and that there is no danger of anything going wrong. Those are matters of politics, business, adiministation, education, counter-terrorism, security, preparing for the unexpected, natural disasters, etc. The US just "lost" two spent fuel rods somewhere?

Abstainance is the best guarantee that there will NOT be a meltdown, dirty bomb, or other catastrophe. Indulgence creates a huge need for competence, vigilance, security, intelligence, lack of corruption, lack of fanatical enemies, etc.

PvK

[Atrocities]

Thank you for posting the link to this site. Thank you very much. I wonder why no one has done a documentary on what this lady has done. THAT would make a fine evening of television to be sure.

[Atrocities]

I sent the link to 60 minutes and 48 hours. Perhaps one of them will be inspired to contact her and do a story. God I hope so.

If any of you would like to do the same, the more there are supporting it the more likely they will produce a story on it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/48hours/main3410.shtml

[Slick]

Originally posted by Timstone:
All who goof around with translation fever: "Thread jackers!!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
Very thought Provoking site Timstone, thanks for sharing. The photos seems like they're from some sort of movie, but you see how they were taken (They aren't done by professional Photographers, they look like photos you and I would take, and that adds some integrity to it) Definitely a prominent warning we may be messing with things we're not ready for yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Believe me good RD, we're ready for more fusion and fission. The only thing that was an big error in Chernobyl was that the military was in control of the powerplant.
On order of the military the people of the powerplant shut off all the 50 different failsaves. This causes the reactor to produce more energy (thus more electrical output). The darkside of this was the gigantic risc of a meltdown. This meltdown doesn't always have to lead to a mushroom, this was averted by a clever maintenance worker who decided to drop the carbon rods into the reactor. Thus preventing a thermal overload.
The coolant of the reactor was often given the blame of the overload (because the West used water to cool things down and the Russians use a more efficient carbon based liquid (a little bit more dangerous than water, but far more efficient)), but this is not true. It was a plain and simple economic decision which created this accident. Stupid military guys. If those failsaves were in place the plant didn't produce as much output, but at least it would have still been in operation.
"No, we don't fail. So we don't need those pesky failsaves. We are the invincible Red Army." Tss... suckers.

Edit: Typo's, typo's, typo's... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No offense, but you should check your sources. None of this is true.

Here's a link to some facts.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/chernobyl/inf07.htm

Slick.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
You are right, you can. But to decode this it should only take a total of 5 minutes or less. Because you do not have to manually decode the message.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Five minutes ... if you type well, already know the file format, et cetera. Originally posted by Ragnarok:

Here is some more for you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">0100110101100001011011100010110000
1000000110111001101111001000000110111101
1011100110010100100000011101110110000101
1011100111010001110011001000000111010001
1011110010000001100100011001010110001101
1011110110010001100101001000000111010001
1010000110100101110011001000000110001101
1011110110010001100101001000000100100100
1000000110100001100001011101100110010100
1000000110100001100101011100100110010100
1111110010000001001101011000010111100101
1000100110010100100000010010010010000001
1101110110100101101100011011000010000001
1101000111001001111001001000000110000101
1011100110111101110100011010000110010101
1100100010000001100011011011110110010001
1001010010000001110100011011110010000001
1100110110010101100101001000000110100101
1001100010000001110100011010000110000101
1101000010000001110111011011110111001001
1010110111001100101110001000000100100101
1001100010000001111001011011110111010100
1000000111011101100001011011100111010000
1000000110110101100101001000000111010001
1011110010000001001001001000000110001101
1000010110111000100000011101000110010101
1011000110110000100000011110010110111101
1101010010000001101000011011110111011100
1000000100100100100000011001000110100101
1001000010000001110100011010000110100101
1100110010111000100000010000100111010101
1101000010000001101001011001100010000001
1110010110111101110101001000000111001001
1001010110000101100100001000000111010001
1010000110100101110011001000000110110101
1001010111001101110011011000010110011101
1001010010000001110100011010000110010101
1011100010000001111001011011110111010100
1000000110111101100010011101100110100101
1011110111010101110011011011000111100100
1000000110101101101110011011110111011100
1000000110100001101111011101110010000001
0010010010000001100100011010010110010000
1000000110100101110100001000000110000101
1011100110010000100000011010000110000101
1101100110010100100000011001100110100101
1001110111010101110010011001010110010000
1000000110111101110101011101000010000001
1010000110111101110111001000000111010001
1011110010000001100011011011110110111001
1101100110010101110010011101000010000001
1101000110100001100101001000000110001101
101111011001000110010100101110</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe you will like this more:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">%4D%61%6E%2C%20%6E%6F%20%6F%6E%65%
20%77%61%6E%74%73%20%74%6F%20%64%65%63%6
F%64%65%20%74%68%69%73%20%63%6F%64%65%20
%49%20%68%61%76%65%20%68%65%72%65%3F%20%
4D%61%79%62%65%20%49%20%77%69%6C%6C%20%7
4%72%79%20%61%6E%6F%74%68%65%72%20%63%6F
%64%65%20%74%6F%20%73%65%65%20%69%66%20%
74%68%61%74%20%77%6F%72%6B%73%2E%20%49%6
6%20%79%6F%75%20%77%61%6E%74%20%6D%65%20
%74%6F%20%49%20%63%61%6E%20%74%65%6C%6C%
20%79%6F%75%20%68%6F%77%20%49%20%64%69%6
4%20%74%68%69%73%2E%20%42%75%74%20%69%66
%20%79%6F%75%20%72%65%61%64%20%74%68%69%
73%20%6D%65%73%73%61%67%65%20%74%68%65%6
E%20%79%6F%75%20%6F%62%76%69%6F%75%73%6C
%79%20%6B%6E%6F%77%20%68%6F%77%20%49%20%
64%69%64%20%69%74%20%61%6E%64%20%68%61%7
6%65%20%66%69%67%75%72%65%64%20%6F%75%74
%20%68%6F%77%20%74%6F%20%63%6F%6E%76%65%
72%74%20%74%68%65%20%63%6F%64%65%2E%00</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agreed with Fyron (WOW!) it probably isn't worth your time if you do it the hard way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Simple once you have the idea, but definately not worth your time. And no thanks, I don't really want you reading it to me.

Here's one for you, Ragnarok:
00000000000011111111000000000
00000000000011100000000111000
00000000000001100000000000000
11000000000000010000000000000
00000100000000000100000000000
00000000010000000001000000000
00000000000001000000010000000
00000000000000000100000100000
00000000000001000000010000100
00100000000000010100000010001
00001010000000000100010000001
00100000100000000000100010000
00100100000000000000000100010
00000101000000000000000001000
00100000011000000000000011001
00001111100011000000000000100
10100010000010011000000000000
10010100100000001011000000000
00001100100100000001011000000
00000000000100100000001011000
00000000000000100010000010011
00000010000000000100001111100
01010000101000000000100000100
00010010000010000000000010001
00000010010000000000000000010
00100000010001000000000000000
01000100000100001000000000000
00000101000000100000100000000
00000000010000001000000010000
00000000000000000010000000010
00000000000000000001000000000
00100000000000000000010000000
00000011000000000000001100000
00000000000111000000001110000
00000000000000000111111110000
00000000

[ April 23, 2004, 20:58: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[Puke]

if you want a hard cypher to solve, try this:

http://www.bokler.com/pix/eapoe_crypto_ltr.jpg

Sure, its already been done - but it took 150 years!

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
Simple once you have the idea, but definately not worth your time. And no thanks, I don't really want you reading it to me.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting that you say this, Jack. Because no where in my Messages did I say anything about reading it to anyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So tell me, how did you come to the conclusion that I was going to read it to someone?

[Slick]

Guys, find another thread already...

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
Interesting that you say this, Jack. Because no where in my Messages did I say anything about reading it to anyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So tell me, how did you come to the conclusion that I was going to read it to someone? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">sorry - I picked that up from the "explain it" segment

[Slick]

Originally posted by Slick:
Guys, find another thread already... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[PvK]

Maybe Timstone should rename the thread "hijacked thread" and move the Chernobyl content to a new thread.

PvK

[Ragnarok]

First of all my apologies for hijacking the thread. Won't happen again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Thank you for posting the link to this site. Thank you very much. I wonder why no one has done a documentary on what this lady has done. THAT would make a fine evening of television to be sure. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Back on topic...The reason no documentary has been made is probably for either lack of information regarding her, or people that would be responsible for a documentary do not know of this story. Or perhaps they just plainly do not want to do one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by primitive:
Why latin ? Wouldn't Mandarin be better, after all "he" could have spent 10 years in catholic school. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not bloody likely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fyron spending his formative years around nuns and little girls in short plaid skirts.... You know that would explain a lot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Timstone]

Originally posted by Slick:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Timstone:
All who goof around with translation fever: "Thread jackers!!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
Very thought Provoking site Timstone, thanks for sharing. The photos seems like they're from some sort of movie, but you see how they were taken (They aren't done by professional Photographers, they look like photos you and I would take, and that adds some integrity to it) Definitely a prominent warning we may be messing with things we're not ready for yet... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Believe me good RD, we're ready for more fusion and fission. The only thing that was an big error in Chernobyl was that the military was in control of the powerplant.
On order of the military the people of the powerplant shut off all the 50 different failsaves. This causes the reactor to produce more energy (thus more electrical output). The darkside of this was the gigantic risc of a meltdown. This meltdown doesn't always have to lead to a mushroom, this was averted by a clever maintenance worker who decided to drop the carbon rods into the reactor. Thus preventing a thermal overload.
The coolant of the reactor was often given the blame of the overload (because the West used water to cool things down and the Russians use a more efficient carbon based liquid (a little bit more dangerous than water, but far more efficient)), but this is not true. It was a plain and simple economic decision which created this accident. Stupid military guys. If those failsaves were in place the plant didn't produce as much output, but at least it would have still been in operation.
"No, we don't fail. So we don't need those pesky failsaves. We are the invincible Red Army." Tss... suckers.

Edit: Typo's, typo's, typo's... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No offense, but you should check your sources. None of this is true.

Here's a link to some facts.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/chernobyl/inf07.htm

Slick. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh dear, seems there is a big mystery going on here...
*Twilight Zone theme tune playing in the background.*

Okay, please let me say that this is not something I made up or something. I'm not the only smart person around here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I'm a mechanical enigneer and thus not a complete stranger to this field of science. I happen to work for a company which designs, produces, installs and maintains rather large industrial pumps, filter installations and generators. My hobby's also include an interest in anything that has to do with fission and fusion. I've read a few (not many) explanations about the Chernobyl accident and a few of them poke of the switching off of the failsaves and the other few spoke of a faulty reactor design. They contradict. Then I saw a nice documentary on Discovery (around 1996 I think (centenial maybe)). That documentary spoke of the failsaves and the alleged coolant. Even when I went to school to study for mechanical enigneer I was taught a few contradictory causes, even the books we had to buy for those classes weren't in agreement. So I ended up with three Versions.
1) Faulty reactor design.
2) Wrong coolant and switching off failsaves.
3) Swithching off failsaves.
Because most of the reports spoke of the failsaves and the military involvement, I thought that this was the cause of the accident.Back in those days I didn't have internet, so there was no way for me to check.

When I received this link I didn't check the internet because I thought I knew the cause.
It wasn't me, it was the one-armed man!

[Slick]

Again, no offense intended. I decided to provide the link because I have had much training on what happened at Chernobyl since I operate and test reactors for a living, I decided to squash some urban legends.

The "faulty" design is somewhat misleading. Their reactor design (and some of the designs in the US) are a boiling water reactor design. These are more difficult to control than other designs, but that does not make them faulty. They have been operating safely for many years. What the US considers "faulty" is that many other countries including the former Soviet Union don't believe in the idea of "containment". Containment buildings are built around all US reactors and are designed to keep a reactor design contained in all but the most severe circumstances. They are designed for earthquakes up to a certain magnitude and most were designed to survive an aircraft impact (at the time of design, but there have been bigger aircraft built since). They are also designed to contain any reactor accidents. Indeed, Three Mile Island containment worked perfectly. There was a minor release of some low level radioactive steam via a relief valve, but that was designed to relieve pressure outside of the containment. If Chernobyl had a containment building, there would be no contamination or radiation outside the building. That is what was faulty, but under Soviet economics, deemed too costly.

The "wrong coolant" idea is just an urban legend. Many operating reactors use light water with no problems.

As far as "military involvement", that's also mostly irrelevant. It's true that the military was very involved in many things in the former Soviet Union, but they did not contribute to the problem.

"Switching off failsafes". Let's talk about this one. They were testing a failsafe at the time. They were trying to ensure that, following a loss of power, the turbine generators would be able to provide enough electrical power until the standby generators came on. Making sure that the failsafes work is a very good thing. In order to do this, they had to temporarily disable other safety systems for the test. This is not necessarily a bad thing either. What made this one very, very bad, was that the operators were not trained very well and did not understand the effect on the plant. When the problem happened, there were ample opportunities for the operators to take action to correct the problem. They did not understand what was going on and through action and inaction did not do the right things to prevent an accident. They were poorly trained and asked to operate in a very abnormal condition. What compounded this was a sense of urgency to complete the test so they were rushing. This is the true tragedy - they weren't trained well enough to handle an abnormal situation so it got worse and lead to a reactor accident.

I can tell you that whenever problems (even small ones) occur on any reactor plant anywhere, investigations occur and the problems, causes and corrective action reports are disseminated to the nuclear community so that training on these problems can be done and any changes put in place to prevent similar occurrences. This may involve changing or upgrading plant components, modifying operating procedures or other processes to prevent the problem from happening again.

Fossil fuels won't be around forever. I am also involved with other "alternate energy sources". Hawaii is a unique place where solar, tidal, wind turbine, OTEC and geothermal sources all exist in one place. Fusion is looking more promising every day, but it is probably a generation away from producing power for commercial use. There are some other fancy designs being developed for long term space travel (ironic that we're discussing this on the SE4 forum) and other applications. These are probably a generation away from being practical as well.

Until then, people need to conserve energy and support alternate energy research. They also need to be a little more tolerant of nuclear plants until a better substitute can be used.

Slick.

[Atrocities]

This is all very interesting to say the least. Thank you for posting it Slick.

I remember when Trojan, about 35 miles from here, had its little scare and was then shut down. To be honest with you I was more frightened by Trojan with a 99% chance of never blowing up than by Mt St. Helens which did. And I see Mt. St. Helens from my window and it is 80 miles away.

Have any of you ever seen a volcano blow before? It is awe inspiringly as it is frightening. If you want to see what an area would look like after a nuke went off take the drive around St. Helens and become inlightened.

[Slick]

Yea, we have volcanoes too, but not the kind that blow the whole top of the mountain off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . Ours do more of an ooze thing than an explosion thing, although seeing lava being bLasted a few hundred feet in the air at night is a sight to behold.

I'd also like to take this chance to try to eliminate another common misconception about reactors. They cannot blow up in a nuclear explosion like you see in the movies. They have steam plants just like fossil fuel plants and there can be conventional steam explosions, but they cannot explode in a "nuclear" explosion in the way that a nuclear bomb explodes. They simply are completely different devices and whatever you may have seen in the movies is just impossible (K-219, for example). If there were a large enough problem at a plant, there could be some release of radioactive material as has happened a few times in the past, but none of these were, or could have been, your typical Hollywood "mushroom cloud".

Also, not many people know this or choose to acknowledge it, but people working at coal plants generally get more radiation exposure from the coal (which contains Carbon-14) than most nuclear workers. Even though C-14 is only found in trace amounts in natural coal, those huge piles of coal collectively have a lot of "trace" C-14 which is exposing coal plant workers to radiation. Also, since their exposure is not tracked, there is no real record of this. It's kind of ironic to me that this fact is not widely known and people think that nuclear plant workers are the only people who get occupational radiation exposure.

People who fly in airplanes for a living spend a lot of thier time high in the atmosphere where cosmic radiation levels are not as shielded by the atmosphere, but their exposure is not tracked either.

Slick.

[oleg]

Slick is certainly the best expert here. My Farther in law works in the Leningrad Nuclear Plant which has the same design as Chernobyl and has no concerns whatsoever for its safety. The real reason of Chernobyl disaster was the violations of the specifications during the construction (to save money and time)and criminally negligent maintanence (sheer incompetence of the director and the chief safety officer). There is no foolproof defence against that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Ruatha]

Ahh Slick..
You forgot us who are working in the radiologic and isotope medicine departments..
But we have good records of our exposure, our personal levels are measured all the time and checked off each month, and we are soo far below limits that it would be a real challenge to meet the limits!!

Edit: Hmm, I guess our patients are exposed a bit too...
I think a single chest x-ray is equavilent to an transatlantic flight, IIRC.

[ April 25, 2004, 10:48: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Slick]

I didn't forget you folks. I know that the medical folks who deal with radiology keep good exposure records. Both on the x-ray side and the medical isotopes side. I was trying to point out some of the occupations who receive exposure, but don't keep records or even acknowledge that they are getting exposed.

My lifetime occupational radiation exposure (after 15 years as a radiation and contamination qualified worker) is less than the equivalent of 1 chest x-ray. Of course, as an engineer, I don't get as much exposure as some of the other workers.

Slick.

[ April 25, 2004, 11:09: Message edited by: Slick ]

[Loser]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Thank you for posting the link to this site. Thank you very much. I wonder why no one has done a documentary on what this lady has done. THAT would make a fine evening of television to be sure. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think one of the problems with doing such a documentary, and that could keep it from being done, is that at some point they would just have to go into the dead zone with her.

Considering her views on bringing people with her maybe this is highly objectionable.

Considering the time that has passed since that site was first put up maybe she doesn't do it anymore and has no interest.

And today, or tomorrow morning at 0123 rather, is the aniversary. Nice timing on Timstone's part, posted with enough time to get a lot of interest, and threadjacking, before the day rolled around.

[PvK]

I expect most modern TV "journalists" proposed with this story would want to do it themselves to get the spotlight points, but then probably be afraid to do it.

PvK

[freduk]

Very nice story indeed!
I also remember the Chernobyl accident, I was only 7 years old when it happened.
We were not allowed to eat vegetables from our garden that year and I also remember my parents we're pretty freaked out about it.
Looking back, the radiactive cloud went for finland and sweden, got bounced of by northern wind thus skipping norway and sweden and spread throughout parts ofgermany and the netherlands instead.

Also: the chernobyl area havent been deserted totally now is it? I heard the russian government just kept the other 3 reactors running because they had no money building new ones. Until a few years ago.
Yes, they are quite crazy.

Ook grappig dat er nog redelijk wat nederlanders op dit forum/ pbw zitten, dat had ik niet verwacht! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Timstone]

Slick:
Thanks for this excellent answer. I really like this. It only rarely that I get speak with persons who have such an interesting job as you have. Thanks again for the fabulous explanantion.
Two thumbs up for you!

[Captain Kwok]

I'm curious to how they can continue to operate the other 3 reactors. Is it because their shielded against radiation - so they're not as affected by their proximity to the accident site as say, the town was? Or is the accident site less radioactive because of the absorbing materials they dumped on it?

[Atrocities]

I would love to have the money and time to do something like this for my hobbies.

[dogscoff]

Interesting development: Apparently the motorcycle story was a fake... or at least an exagerration:
http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=8951

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I'm curious to how they can continue to operate the other 3 reactors. Is it because their shielded against radiation - so they're not as affected by their proximity to the accident site as say, the town was? Or is the accident site less radioactive because of the absorbing materials they dumped on it? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, there's no particular reason the equipment wouldn't work unless there was physical damage.

Close the connections to the bad reactor and replace any nessesary parts...
Then its just a matter of getting people to go to work in that environment.

[Parasite]

In America, and I think other countries, radiation workers have a much higher limit on the amount of radiation they can recieve.

Both limits are way below the hair falling out stage, but the general population limit or "Safe" level is much lower.

[Slick]

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/reg-guides/occupational-health/active/


edit: Please! Radiation limits for everyone are safe.

[ May 29, 2004, 03:15: Message edited by: Slick ]