SEII AI

[Solymr]

Just wondering if anyone else as noticed this or thought of it. Back in my naive days of gaming I played SEII often and noticed how the AI would build battlestations and such at the warp points as a defense. It'd get to the point where taking each warp point could mean a major offensive, not to mention holding the system after. But ever since SEIII and onwards I haven't seen any AI do this. I'm just wondering if anyone has either seen an AI do this sort of thing (not with mines or sats mind you) or knows of a way that such a tactic could be implemented into a races AI.

[Fyron]

SE2 AI did not have to be able to adapt to radically different data files, so more time could be spent optimizing it for the single set of data possible in SE2. Unfortunately, Aaron Hall is not the best of AI programmers... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Solymr]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
SE2 AI did not have to be able to adapt to radically different data files, so more time could be spent optimizing it for the single set of data possible in SE2. Unfortunately, Aaron Hall is not the best of AI programmers... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, having vastly different races/mods could make it hard to do. Still it'd be rather nice if the AI put more focus on defending warp points with something more then just mines or sats, making the choke points more strategic I guess.

[PvK]

The "Neutral" AI will put fleets on its warp points, but it only has one system to defend.

In stock SE4, it's usually a really bad idea to invest in battle stations at warp points, because they cost so much to maintain, and there are usually ways around them anyway.

Of course, a mod could give them a much better maintenance reduction so they would be practical, at which point it would be great to have an AI option to tell it to build battlestations at warp points.

PvK

[Suicide Junkie]

SJmod is good for that. The hardest part is getting that mobile construction ship to the site... minimum size 1000kt, and they're dang slow at that size.
And with the cubic increase in build time relative to hull size, they take a serious investment.

Repairs are also difficult, especially with the large size of a base, and the repair system physics.
However, with a maintenance cost of 1/4 to 1/6 of a ship, they're quite doable.

Another concern is the fact that the enemy could just set a don't get hurt strategy, and escape from your bases. They'll take some losses, but not too much unless you have ships and fighters to chase them down with.

[Renegade 13]

Ah, this thread brings back memories....in fact, I think I'll go play a game of SE 2!! Too bad I can't order the full Version anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . I should have when I still had the chance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ZeroAdunn]

Actually, one nice thing about stations for WP defense is they start right on top of the enemies during a warp point assault, so you can arm them with mounted short range weapons and they will be exceptionally powerfull. (in my current game I have modded ripper beams to be more powerfull and base maint reduction up and I have found putting around 4 to 6 battlestations at a WP can repell just about anything.)

Of course, the problem is getting the AI to better deffend (and assault) warp points. That is one thing I miss from SEIII days, is the way the AI would build up massive warp point assault fleets and then smash through my defenses if left unchecked. These days the AI seems to generally just throw small fleets at my warp points.

[Solymr]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
Ah, this thread brings back memories....in fact, I think I'll go play a game of SE 2!! Too bad I can't order the full Version anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . I should have when I still had the chance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Same here, I'll have to buy SEIII again just so I can get SEII. I'll do it one of these days I guess. But yeah, I miss those old days of having to first probe their defenses with a crummy escort, then built a fleet large enough to destroy those defenses and after that still have to hold the system. I can see why such a tactic isn't really useful in SEIV anymore, but I just feel it takes a part of the series that I rather enjoyed out.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

A mod with 75% base maintanence and 2x size, stat! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Don't forget the mounts!

[Paul1980au]

Hoping thta aaron gets help in to create a real good AI for SE5 or maybe puts out SE4 Version 2 with a major refinement to the AI as well - not likley but once SE5 is done i would like just 1 more realise for SE4 - as im sure people with older systems will keep buying it for a few years to come.

[Baron Munchausen]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
Ah, this thread brings back memories....in fact, I think I'll go play a game of SE 2!! Too bad I can't order the full Version anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . I should have when I still had the chance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes you can. Order the "Space Empires Collection" CD through the SE III purchase page. You get 'original' SE, SE II, and SE III on a single CD.

[Renegade 13]

Unfortunately, I've already bought SE3, but did not order the compilation CD. Therefore, to get SE2, I'd have to buy them ALL, and I'd rather not shell out $35 to buy only SE2. I'm young, and I don't have that much money to spend frivolously http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . But thanks for the suggestion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Baal]

You know, on the topic of SE2. I wish there was an option for unlimited rounds of combat so there would never be ties. Along with that turn off the tactic that makes ships run away. Those were the two things that really made SE2 combat what it is. Then with a couple more AI tweeks they would start building bases like in SE2 and they would work.

[Suicide Junkie]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif SO what happens when the Last enemy ship destroys your missile launcher with a DUC shell, and then your missile-in-flight kills his Last DUC?

Or when you both run out of supplies, or when you try to blockade a planet with "don't get hurt" orders?

[Baal]

Well, make the AI force a ram. Someone can always die. In the rare event that that happens both ships should just be destroyed outright, just to clean up the sector and not have a bunch of worthless derelicts sitting there.

I also say don't even make planets targets. Make it so you can only land troops. And blockading can be achieved simply by not being able to target eachother (planet vs ship).

And I thought when you ran out of supplies everything would just slow down. Slower reload rates.

[ April 29, 2004, 00:16: Message edited by: Baal ]

[ZeroAdunn]

Baal: No offense, but terrible idea. What fun would it be without the ability to glass planets.

[Baal]

Terrible is in the eye of the beholder my friend. It would make for a cool PBW I think.

[Phoenix-D]

When you run out of supplies in combat, one of two things happen:

A. You can't move, fire, or run your shields
B. You can move one sector, but not fire or run your shields

Not sure which.

[Krsqk]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
When you run out of supplies in combat, one of two things happen:

A. You can't move, fire, or run your shields
B. You can move one sector, but not fire or run your shields

Not sure which. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One vote cast for Option B, with one caveat: You can still fire weapons which require 0 supplies (i.e., stock PDC, many energy weapons in P&N).