Junkyard games?

[Makinus]

Anyone is playing or plan to start a game in the PBW using the Junkyard mod? I would like to participate in one, but since my work schedule is very irregular i don't want to host it and could only play it it it is 48hs or more for each turn... (mainly because i don't have access to the internet at the weekends).

[Baron Grazic]

I second that.
With my limited time, I'd condier joining but couldn't promise anything.

Unless you want to play a one-on-one game Makinus?

[ May 24, 2004, 22:54: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[Ed Kolis]

NOOOOOO!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

I've wanted to play another one of those for SO long now, but I'm already in 14, count em, fourteen PBW games (albeit not all started yet)...

But I'm game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

(drools over playing the updated Versions of all these mods when *SE5* comes out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[Makinus]

Looks like we have some player interested in a Junkyard game, we need now a host for the game....

Everyone that wants to participate please post in this thread, so we can have some idea of the number of players...

If no one wants to host it i can try to, but i would wish that someone acts like a "backup" host in case my work schedule makes me unavailable...

Lets start discussing the parameters of the game... i have some suggestions, and i would like to hear yours:

Universe size: small if 2-8 players, medium if 9-15 players and large if 16+ players...
Planets: Good, 3-planet start...
Infinite resources.
No Intel and No Tech Trades (Intel and Tech trades would defeat the purpose of the Junkyard mod)
Cluster galaxy with all warp points connected...

So, what you think? And anyone knew what is the latest Junkyard mod Version, and if it is compatible with 1.91?

[Makinus]

Before i forget again: what about we use 0 points races?

[Ed Kolis]

I don't think there is a Gold-compatible Version of the Junkyard Mod yet... not to say that one would be hard to make! Though it would seem rather appropriate to spice it up a bit with mobile research facilities and junk monsters and stuff....... who knows where to stop??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

edit: no, not mobile RESEARCH facilites! those would defeat the whole purpose of the mod! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Maybe mobile INTEL facilities... yeah, that sounds good! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
I don't think there is a Gold-compatible Version of the Junkyard Mod yet... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, there is. The Last Junkyard Mod game on PBW used it. The mod is available for use up to 1.91 on PBW. But I don't think the 1.91 Version was changed at all from the 1.84 Version. So none of the new cool features added in the Last patch.

Geoschmo

[Makinus]

I downloaded and teste the Junkyard mod that is available in PBW and it, as Geo just said, works normally with 1.91, so i don't see any problem in using it...

About Intel, you really want to use it? Maybe i'm wrong, but i thought that the idea of the Junkyard mod was so you must do the better with the techs you found, and trading techs or getting them by intel would defeat this porpose...

Other thing: to ensure a better pace in the game i sugget we start it in the Medium tech setting, because with it, at least the Theoretical Fields of research would have some levels, and we would concentrate in getting Applied Research techs through colonization, and that, if i understood the mod, is the whole point of it...

Another thing: what you think about a 0 point race? and if you want to participate make sure you generate your race in the Junkyard mod, because it have some changes in the racial characteristics (the intelligence can't be changed).

I'm still asking for someone to assume as host of the game or, at least, as a "backup" host in case i became unavailable because of my work schedule...

[ May 25, 2004, 17:06: Message edited by: Makinus ]

[Ed Kolis]

I'm willing to host the game, but I don't think you'd want me to, because I'm too generous about giving people time to reply to "submit your turn now or you'll be kicked!" Messages and such, so none of my games ever seem to get anywhere... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[geoschmo]

Yes, sometimes it takes a hard-*** to be a good game owner. A couple people come to mind, but I probably shouldn't name names. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Makinus]

I don't have any problem with that Ed, and if you can host the game, please do it!

Just so the game can work in a good schedule, why we not set it for a turn every 48hs?

If you can host it, please create the game in PBW, so we can see the number of players we will have (set it initially for 20 players, but i doubt we will get more than 10).

Just a suggestion in the settings:
48hs turns
0 points races
no intel and no trades
Medium Tech start (so we have at least some Theoretical Research fields already researched)
3-planet start

These settings, i think, will allow a good start...

[Spoo]

I'm interested. Make sure ship trading/gifting is outlawed as well, since people could exchange techs that way too.

IIRC, Krsqk(?) made an extension to the Junkyard mod that extended the tech tree to create more variety. (It might already be included in the latest Junkyard mod.)

EDIT: spelled "Krsqk" right this time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ May 28, 2004, 06:38: Message edited by: Spoo ]

[Ed Kolis]

Do you mind if I make a few... changes to the mod? I'd like to do a few things such as add multiple levels of colony components (so that you don't suddenly get a huge advantage by discovering 2 colony techs on the same planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ), and maybe throw in a few other ideas... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Baron Grazic]

I'd prefer the following.

48hrs turns (72 hrs after a few years)
2000 points races
no intel and no trades
Surrender to person who defeated you only.
3-planet start
Low Tech start - makes it more intereting when you see a Dreadnaugh fleet, only to find out they only have DUC 1 weapons.

I've used the Version of PBW and seems to be fine, but I'd be happy to use an updated Version.

[Ed Kolis]

Here's a list of changes I made so far, tell me what you think:

-Renamed the weapon mounts and some components to give it a more "junkyard" flavor
-Larger weapon mounts use a disproportionate amount of supplies (think "gas guzzling SUV engines" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
-Colony modules now have 5 tech levels, and the low level ones are fairly weak, so as to prevent you from getting a really powerful colony tech in ruins. Yes, this does mean your first few colony ships will be very expensive, but so it goes :-P
-Colony modules no longer show up as available for bases. (I'd take care of engines too but it's only cosmetic and I don't want to mess with the vehicle type restrictors now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
-Fixed ability description of emissive armor to match Gold functionality of EA
-Medical bays now cost a *LOT* of organics and some rads. Just something that always ticked me off about SE4 :-P
-Added multiple levels of self destruct device to make scavenging parties more viable (Arr! ;-)
-Ship/base repair bays renamed to be consistent with spaceyards
-Hyper-Dense Armor gets a new picture so you can tell it apart from regular Armor
-Removed Small Emissive Armor because it is USELESS!
-Massive shield depleters now really do sap ALL of a target's shields!
-Small Anti-matter Torpedo is no longer useless! (increased damage)
-Small Shield Depleters can no longer be mounted on troops for mega damage!
-Reduced damage of Computer Virus II and III so III isn't overkill
-Tweaked Neutral and Xenophobes cultures for balance

[Spoo]

-Reduced damage of Computer Virus II and III so III isn't overkill <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">IIRC, if a computer virus doesn't do enough damage to kill a master computer in one shot, it is completely useless.

[ May 26, 2004, 05:09: Message edited by: Spoo ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Yes, sometimes it takes a hard-*** to be a good game owner. A couple people come to mind, but I probably shouldn't name names. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed.

Originally posted by Spoo:
IIRC, if a computer virus doesn't do enough damage to kill a master computer in one shot, it is completely useless. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is trye of all specific component damaging types.

[ May 26, 2004, 05:18: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ed Kolis]

All right, the game is set up on PBW as "Junkyard 24XX: Battlegrounds", using the existing Version of the mod, since my Version's not on PBW yet. You should be able to submit your .emp files using JYW Mod v2.1 since I haven't changed any race traits...

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Spoo:
IIRC, if a computer virus doesn't do enough damage to kill a master computer in one shot, it is completely useless. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but which master computer has 60 hitpoints? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I just evened things out so instead of 20-40-60 damage progression where the CV2 and the CV3 could destroy any MC, now it's 20-30-40 so the CV2 can destroy MC3-5 and the CV3 can destroy any MC.

[Makinus]

I agree with all your changes Ed, they will make the game more interesting, so, when you finish to modify the mod, why you don't upload it to PBW and make it available in this Thread also, so we can download it and designate our races...

And if you want to host it, please create the game in PBW so we can join it...

[Baron Grazic]

Sorry guys, work load just doubled again, and I'll won't be able to join, as much as I want to.

[Ed Kolis]

You haven't withdrawn from the game at PBW, Grazic - did you change your mind again?

[Baron Grazic]

I've been told by another source, that PBW is not letting people withdraw from games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[atari_eric]

Yes! Just in time for summer, when I'll have more time to play! Count me in!

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
I've been told by another source, that PBW is not letting people withdraw from games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As far as I know it does let you withdraw. You might get an error when you click the withdraw button, but it's taking you out of the game. If that's incorrect, please let me know.

[Fyron]

It only succeeds in removing the player from the game half the time. For example, Sivran had to withdraw from both Adamant 013 and Adamant 014. Only the withdrawal from Adamant 013 was successful.

[Ed Kolis]

Well, ok, then, I'll kick you, Grazic... geez, that sounds so mean http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Everyone else, I've uploaded my modified Version of the mod... please let me know if you have any concerns about my changes!

http://seiv.pbw.cc/Download/filelib/1010/JunkyardMod+v2.1+-+Ed%27s+Variant.zip

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
I've been told by another source, that PBW is not letting people withdraw from games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As far as I know it does let you withdraw. You might get an error when you click the withdraw button, but it's taking you out of the game. If that's incorrect, please let me know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I did withdraw from this game, and got an error. Using Mozilla, but I didn't take any notice of the error.
I checked my current games, and wasn't included on the list, but no Log entry saying I withdrew.
I received an email from WarDad saying he wants to withdaw from Pairs but couldn't (I'll kick him after next turn).
Then a 'News Item' email come thru from Junkyard game.
Ed may have since kicked me because it appears that I'm not in the game anymore, but there are still no Log Entries.
Something weird is certainly still going on, but they may all come right when you fix the other problems.

[Baron Grazic]

Geo - I'm back as a player in the Junkyard game again. Can you take a look when you have a chance.
Thanks.

[Puke]

Thanks Ed! I'm glad someone is updating the mod. Before you upload your new Version, there are a few bug fixes you might want to put in. You pointed them all out to me, after all:


Why do the Ship/Base designators for Spaceyards come after the name but before the name for Repair bays? And why are base repair bays so huge – even bigger than base spaceyards! There’s no corresponding size/cost increase for base spaceyards...

typo in remote rad extractor descriptions

I just noticed something odd, “Capital Ship Missiles” can be fired at “All but Seekers”? Did you intend to change that?

high energy magnafier 3? is missing from the tech tree
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Ed Kolis]

OK, I'll get to fixing those... umm, sometime before the game starts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Puke]

i actually fixed them myself, but it would probably be harder for you to use my data file now that you have customized your own. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif easier just to edit the couple of lines that need editing.

[Spoo]

Ice Colony Tech only goes to level 2 in Techarea.txt instead of 12 (looks like a typo).

[Paul1980au]

Why the extra ice tech levels - do they make any difference.

[Ed Kolis]

Oops... I was going to make them go to 12 originally but I got lazy so I made them go to 5 in components.txt... but I forgot to change techarea.txt. Thanks for noticing though! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ed Kolis]

New Version of mod uploaded!

I didn't change the base repair bays or the CSM's, the first because I realized they also repair a lot faster than the ship bays, and the second because I figured it must be an intentional change that Puke made, and besides, I didn't feel like checking ALL the seekers in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Kana]

Ok...D/L'd mod. Extracted to SE4G folder...into its own folder...just like any other mod. Run the Mod Launcher...pick the Junkyard Mod, and get the following error...

"High Energy Magnifier 3 could not find Weapon family...."

Might want to check that out Ed...

Also...It won't let me start a new game to make my empire file. Only options are Credits and Quit...any Idea what I'm doing wrong?

Kana

[ June 01, 2004, 20:04: Message edited by: Kana ]

[Ed Kolis]

Ack! I knew there was SOMETHING wrong with the high energy magnifier III - it wasn't appearing at all in Puke's original Version of the mod! It appears my fixing that problem has only brought another to light... Let me see what I can do about it, then I'll upload another Version... but now I have somewhere to go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Ed Kolis]

New Version of mod uploaded! Get it at PBW archive!

[Ed Kolis]

Just for clarification, you will get 5000 research points on the first turn of this game; I hereby decree that you are allowed to spend them to get a cheap tech (or more if you can find even cheaper ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) of your choice (no sense putting them toward a partial tech) - any objections?

BTW, I realized I made colony tech too cheap, but that only really makes a difference in 20K and 100K resource games (where you could grab all of them and have points left over http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ) , which this isn't, so it doesn't matter http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[atari_eric]

Do we need to re-do our empire files again?

[Ed Kolis]

No, I haven't changed any racial traits.

[Kana]

The new update...fixed whatever load problem I had...I do take it that this is not an AI friendly MOD...But I had to try a test of what it would be like to play...this will be interesting to say the very least...

Ed...sent you and updated EMP file...after testing...I need to make some changes...

Thanks,

Kana

[Baron Grazic]

Well Ed, since I still can't withdraw it looks like you have suckered me into this game. You will be sorry after I take out your Empire first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You might have to ask the PBW Admins to change the mod the game is using before you start however.

[Ed Kolis]

Sorry about that, Baron... if you really want to withdraw, I can keep hitting the kick button again and again hoping it works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You weren't by chance the one who blockaded me to my home system in the Last junkyard game I played in, were you?

I will ask the admins to change the mod, however that shouldn't keep the game from starting as I can just run turns manually until that's taken care of.

[Kana]

So only 7 people huh?!?!

I was looking forward to the possibility of the 20 people you originally had listed. I guess that would be to much to hope.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Kana

[Fyron]

Kick him, then go to the Admin Options screen and click on Update Options.

[Baron Grazic]

Yep, I'm out.
Sorry Ed, and Other Junkers, but I'd hate myself more pulling out mid-game.

[Kana]

Ed...May have a replacement player. Hold off on starting...unless it gets filled before I get back to you...don't worry about saving it or anything.

Kana

[Kana]

Nevermind Ed...thanks for waiting...He unfortunatly can't play. I guess we are stuck with six...

Kana

[Ed Kolis]

All right... I'll go bug Dinesku again to send me his updated .emp file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Makinus]

with six players i think the best galaxy size would be small... what do you think guys?

Edit: typos

[ June 07, 2004, 11:30: Message edited by: Makinus ]

[Ed Kolis]

That's what I thought, too, until I remembered I was also setting quadrant type to ancient, which would be unfair to players with no planets nearby - so I set it to medium to give people a chance to find their statistical allotment of planets before encountering a potential enemy, but knowing that would also slow down the game, I set it to "warp points located anywhere in system". Hope everone was ok with that, because...

"And in related news, the game begins! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif "

[Kana]

Is it just me or did Dine and Eric both have the same flag?

Kana

[Ed Kolis]

They don't... must be your Random Flag Generator(tm) - everyone but Eric has a different flag listed in PBW which they're using in-game, and Eric's isn't listed and it definitely isn't any of those because I downloaded all of them and I got a Random Flag (tm) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif