Semi OT: Spaceship Cockpits?

[Taera]

Hello all, i was sketching a few spaceships today and realized something - all the spaceships (or most of them) that we see in SE have extensive cockpit-like "windows" on their front, sides, etc.

Now the question is, whats the use of those? Wouldn't a ship just need one (pretty small one, comparatively, if talking about big ships) for visual, and THATS IT?

[Ed Kolis]

Most aliens are giants! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[PvK]

They're for the entertainment of the crew.

PvK

[Taera]

no, seriously? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Slick]

All great craft in history have needed the ability to see for navigation and the equivalent of "parking" for whatever craft you are talking about. Even submarines, which have no windows, must surface and put people up on the sail (bridge) for maneuvering in and out of port. Apollo 13, in which the movie was very accurate, used visual navigation to make it back to Earth. I would think that, since humans rely on vision for so much, the ability to see out of a craft for navigation, combat, maneuvering, etc., would be absolutely necessary.

Slick.

[Taera]

But what about futuristic massive spaceships, manned with hundreds of people and equipped with the most precise sensors and computers?

[David E. Gervais]

Originally posted by Taera:
But what about futuristic massive spaceships, manned with hundreds of people and equipped with the most precise sensors and computers? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There would still be windows simply because people have a inner need to look out onto (into) wide open spaces. It goes a long way to curbing claustiphobia. Besides, looking at the stars has always had a soothing effect on the souls of mankind.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

of course fighters or other small vehicles NEED cockpits or else the human would not feel very good inside and therefor wouldnt be concentrated at combat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif thats the nature of us humans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[PvK]

How about the retardo-big window-like things all over the outside of the ST:TNG Enterprise in all sorts of improbable directions - are they for something besides to make it look more like a fake computer animation and to indicate that sensible people should watch something else? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

BTW:

http://www.guaibaOnline.hpg.ig.com.br/imagens/startrek/enterprise-a15.jpg

PvK

[Ed Kolis]

Foolish photoshopper! Everyone knows the Enterprise was built in an ORBITAL SHIPYARD! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And you're right, I never noticed that... why didn't they ever show an interior shot of any of the "floor windows" on the lower half of the primary hull... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

edit: though it would have been one impressive shot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ June 01, 2004, 19:29: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

[Jack Simth]

They use artifical gravity, and most transportation between distant locales is done by the mysterious turbolift - what makes you think those windows are at odd angles to the rooms on the other side?

[geoschmo]

Maybe those were the quarters for the crewmembers from low and zero gravity planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I could imagine they might have portals that are like the windows on glass bottom boats. You can't walk on them, but they'd have a railing that you could stand around and look down and out of the ship.

Voyager had an episode once that partly revolved around one crewmember that worked in the bowels of the ship. He was a real low-abition type guy that prefered to stay with his current duties because he had a nice view. It was one of those down facing windows. It wasn't really on the floor though. It was kind of at a steep down angle at the base of the wall where you could look out it as you walked by.

[Jack Simth]

Silly photoshopper - the entier enterprise is in very good focus at (what, about a 30 degree angle?) but the stuff beneath it along the entire length of the thing is in poor focus? Real cameras taking pictures of real things don't do that.

[ June 01, 2004, 20:33: Message edited by: Jack Simth ]

[Deth B0y]

The issue with cockpits/windows in space ships is typically tied up in our conception that windows and cockpits represent weak points - ie, that the substance used for them is weaker then the rest of the hull.

If that limitation could be overcame (and the problems, of course, of joining the sections together) then there's no reason not to make the entire ship transparent (such was the case with a book by, i believe, larry niven - the entire ship was one continuous peice, that was totally transparent; you just painted over the parts you didnt' want to be clear).

Of potential interest is that having a visual reference point out at several locations would be very useful for a number of things; murphy's law states that if you have the most expensive and powerful computer and sensor suite in the galaxy, it'll get knocked out in the first 5 minutes and your crew will have to sight-fire the gazers.

just a thought,
deth

[PvK]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:
They use artifical gravity, and most transportation between distant locales is done by the mysterious turbolift - what makes you think those windows are at odd angles to the rooms on the other side? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Blueprints of the TOS ships. I think there are TNG blueprints, and even a game or two that let you walk around inside the ships based on (hopefully the same) blueprints (q.v. Star Trek TNG: Interactive Technical Manual). But I've never looked at TNG blueprints... having been so off-put by the whole TNG thing.

Let's see... quick web scan... came up dry.

PvK

[geoschmo]

Reasons for windows aside, I see very few pictures that have any extensive cockpit-style windows. Only the Urkatal among the stock sets have what even looks anything like that to me. Some have nothing that could even be obviously picked as a window at all. Most have some tiny things that perhaps are portals, but it's difficult to say for sure at the scale which I assume these pictures to represent. Which shipsets are you using?

[EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro]

Gotta have something to navigate by when all those sensors/scanners fail.

I sure like the season final of Enterprise. Those aquatic aliens had windows in their ships and the lizard Xindi bLasted the ship and all the water was being sucked out. So I guess those Aquatic Xindi ships are nothing more than mobile aquariums.

[Taera]

Well, im using my own shipset. Here are two links to ships to represent my ideas:

http://tlogicempire.tripod.com/temp/illea_portrait_battlecruiser.gif

and

http://tlogicempire.tripod.com/racestyle/technologic_portrait_battleship.gif

I'm now in process of sketching a redesign for the blue ships and planning one for the red ones, and i got curious whether should i put those little window thingies or not.

EDIT: EvilGenius, go read the desctiption to SE's Sergetti http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ June 02, 2004, 04:56: Message edited by: Taera ]

[primitive]

Your links are dead (or more precisely wounded by Tripod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Think you’re over your bandwidth limit.

As for windows in spaceships:
Glass and other transparent materials weight a whole lot more than other potential hull materials, so keeping the amount down to the absolute minimum would be the economical way to do it.

Windows are not really necessary anymore either. Put a camera outside and hang a flat screen TV on the wall. Lighter, cheaper and you can watch something else besides empty space once in a while.
And its safe enough. When cameras and TV screens stop working in a spaceship, you will be long dead anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

Or: Get a filter like Proxomitron that hides your referer. Then nosey sites like Tripod can't interfere with your browsing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[primitive]

Oups,

Great looking ships Taera http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Renegade 13]

I especially like the second one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[dogscoff]

I love the Tlogic infantry pic: Guy pushing big gun mounted on snowplough=-)

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by primitive:
Your links are dead (or more precisely wounded by Tripod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Think you’re over your bandwidth limit.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, they work. Tripod is one of those sucky hosting companies that doesn't allow you to post a link to one of you images anywhere but on your webpage. If you copy+paste those links into the URL bar on your browser you'll be able to see them.

Taera, are those windows? I guess the white ones look kind of like windows, but they could be something else too. The red ones don't even look like windows to me.

[Taera]

heh, ever played SMAC? Thats a tribute to that great game. The second one is Illea, my latest race that i never finished - i'm starting to learn Lightwave now, and thought i'd redesign some of my shipsets - maybe even finish this one. But the old ones looked a bit.. toy-like and unappropriate for the race personality. hence my sketches... but i wondered if ships actually need all those "windows to the outer void".

[Yef]

I don't think the ships in SE4 should have windows. The reason for that is that it will give you a sense of the scale of the ships, and since there are so many shipsets, we end up playing with ships on diferent scales.
For example: The Phong. I have a big trouble believing that Phong scout its 100 meters long (one meter per kt)because the windows makes it look like a 20 meters shuttle.

The lack of windows give you the freedom to imagine the ships to be of any size you want, whether you are playing with kilometers long star-destroyers with an Star Wars mod or barely 100s of meters long starships like the stock game appears to be.

And then, there are the tactical issues. An starships with windows could be potentially giving away its location for free. Hyperoptics could theoretically go a long way into detecting light in space. Then we have design issues like hull structure, armor plating, and so on.

I think I'm with Primitive on this one. TV cameras are probably the most effective solution.


.

[ June 03, 2004, 11:46: Message edited by: Yef ]