Retrofit Q

[jim]

Does component order of the new design versus the old design make a difference?

That is, does the algorithm compare the two designs for deltas on a strict and literal box by box basis?

Or does it look at the new design component by component and then hunt the old one for an exact match and then, if it finds one, not count it as a changed component?

If the former, then component placement within a new design is very important. For example, if encountering a psychic converter race, then deleting the bridge+lifesupport+quarters on, say the front of a design, to be replaced by a MC at the end would be impossible. Instead, one would have to either think ahead to likely retrofits, or try to avoid position changes in retrofits.

I ask because I seem to have gotten some odd Messages lately in one game when I have gone to retrofit.

[Suicide Junkie]

Order of components dosen't matter.

Sliding them around is free, but different mounts will require a full break/repair.

[Kamog]

I seem to remember that I once tried to retrofit from one design to another, and the only difference between the two designs was the order of the components (I think I wanted to change the weapon firing order or something). The game wouldn't let me retrofit because it thought they were the same design.

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by Kamog:
I seem to remember that I once tried to retrofit from one design to another, and the only difference between the two designs was the order of the components (I think I wanted to change the weapon firing order or something). The game wouldn't let me retrofit because it thought they were the same design. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, that's what happens. You need to add/subtract/upgrade at least component.

[Arkcon]

Also Jim, I don't see the problem in your example. Here's what I think I'd see. You have a ship design with b+ls+cq. You add an mc. The design window complains that the design is too big for the hull (I'm guessing that's the problem?). You remove the b+ls+cq, and the warning goes away. You have a design now that has the mc as the Last component. That's not a problem, the ship doesn't behave any different for this "out of order" design.

What is the message you're getting when the retrofit fails?

[jim]

I had done things along the lines of deleting the B+LS+CQ and appending the MC at the end. The message was that I had exceeded cost limits. You know, the one that says something like "we cannot build an entirely new ship."

I "solved" the problem by brute force, putting the MC in front and two armor IIIs in the other two slots. It was a pain to do, but it worked. Of course, I am not playing Gold, so maybe that is the difference.

What I'd really like would be a Platinum, with the Last patch Version on the CD, and the updated mods. I especially would like the TDM one. Such a pc wuss, I am ....

[Arkcon]

Yeah, I should have realized what the problem was, the master computer is much more expensive than the other command and control components. I've often had the "I just met the psy-race" retrofits refused. Usually, I build from scratch in that case.

But, I think you'll find that it's easier to match the prices of a cruiser or larger -- the doubled components add almost enough cost, I might have to drop a PDC or am armor, but then it goes through.

[Paul1980au]

Here is hoping we get a final SE4 Version 2 patch say the same time SE5 is nearing completion.

[Randallw]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
Here is hoping we get a final SE4 Version 2 patch say the same time SE5 is nearing completion. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't see why we would. If Aaron was nearing completion of SE5, he surely wouldn't have been spending time writing a patch for SE4.

[AMF]

OK, can someone educate this poor slob about how retrofitting *really* works?

I have been trying for two turns now to retrofit some ships I have in the Quadrants of COnflict game, and I've had similar problems with other games. basically it doesn't do the retrofit, sometimes with a "lacking resources" explanation sometimes without. In all cases, I have double checked and I have had what I thought were plenty of resources.

I am assuming that the way retrofit works is that the new (target ship's) components get destroyed and then repaired, and that the cost in resources is the cost of the components that are repaired. In the cases where I have been screaming at the damn game I have had 3 ships that I am retorfitting, the new ship class to which I am retrofitting them has had only a SINGLE component different between it and the prior class, AND I have had more than enough surplus resources to repair said components. It's been extremely aggravating for me and now I'm behind the power curve. Help! Can someone educate me?

thanks,

Alarik

[primitive]

Is the one component a SY ?

There is a special rule prohibiting retrofitting SY components to non SY ships.

[AMF]

Nope, it's actually just replacing a component with an upgraded Version of the same type of component.


Originally posted by primitive:
Is the one component a SY ?

There is a special rule prohibiting retrofitting SY components to non SY ships. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Randallw]

Originally posted by alarikf:
I have had more than enough surplus resources to repair said components. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just to point out, when retrofitting the game takes the cost of the refit from stores then adds your surplus after that. You may have enough "surplus" to replace resources used but it won't work if there are not enough resources in storage to pay for it.

[AMF]

Hmmm...ok, well, this Last turn I tried refitting only one of the three ships at once...maybe that will work, if so, then I'll have a better idea of why, and it is probably the reason you state...

thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by Randallw:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by alarikf:
I have had more than enough surplus resources to repair said components. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just to point out, when retrofitting the game takes the cost of the refit from stores then adds your surplus after that. You may have enough "surplus" to replace resources used but it won't work if there are not enough resources in storage to pay for it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Ruatha]

Let's just hope it isn't the infamous convert issue.

I once didn't understand why I couldn't retrofit ships when I had a multitude of resources in storage...
It turned out that one planet had a convert resources order on repeat, converted all orgs to rads, then it tried to retrofit, WHAT NO ORGS!! Cant't retrofit!
The resources from planets and trade then came in and when I open the turn it hasn't retrofitted and I have full resources in storage for all three resource types!!
I thought it was a bug, sen't it to Malfador Machinations and they told me to check my orders... a bit embarrasing..

[Yimboli]

Question: how can a planet have repeat orders to convert resources?? I didn't think that was possible. is there some advanced way to give orders that I'm not aware of?

-Tim

[AMF]

Nah, I don't have any resource conVersion tech yet...

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Let's just hope it isn't the infamous convert issue...It turned out that one planet had a convert resources order on repeat, converted all orgs to rads, then it tried to retrofit, WHAT NO ORGS!! Cant't retrofit!...<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Fyron]

Originally posted by primitive:
Is the one component a SY ?

There is a special rule prohibiting retrofitting SY components to non SY ships. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually I believe it is the other way around. It also applies to adding colony modules.

No Retrofit Adding Of Spaceyards := True
No Retrofit Adding Of Colony Module := True
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> Originally posted by Yimboli:
Question: how can a planet have repeat orders to convert resources?? I didn't think that was possible. is there some advanced way to give orders that I'm not aware of?

-Tim <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It can only be done when playing a simultaneous movement game. The order is not carried out until after you hit end turn. So, it can be set to repeat, as with all other orders. In sequential movement games (default for single player), such orders are carried out instantly, so can not be set to repeat.

[ June 21, 2004, 17:58: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[AMF]

Ok, now I really am annoyed. for the third turn running I tried to retrofit. This time only a single ship, from one type of colonizer to another type colonizer, with the only difference being that single colonizer component. I had plenty of resources, was making a surplus and still had, in storage more than enough. WTF?

oh well. I'm about ready to give up on retrofitting...

thanks,

alarik

[Captain Kwok]

You cannot retrofit one colony module to another, at least in the default game. Refer to Fyron's post below to see the settings.txt entry.

[Slick]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
You cannot retrofit one colony module to another, at least in the default game. Refer to Fyron's post below to see the settings.txt entry. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can. What you can't do is add a colony module to a ship by retrofit if it didn't already have one to start with.

Slick.

[primitive]

Does retrofitting work at all (for you) in that game ?
If not, you might have one of those very rare unexplainable bugs that come with a corrupted .emp file. If you’re not sure, save your .emp and start a testgame (full tech) and see if retrofitting works there. If its an .emp bug, I’m afraid there is no fix (that I know of) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Slick:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
You cannot retrofit one colony module to another, at least in the default game. Refer to Fyron's post below to see the settings.txt entry. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can. What you can't do is add a colony module to a ship by retrofit if it didn't already have one to start with.

Slick. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A colony module is typically above the 50% resource limit for retrofitting.
Retrofitting colony types would require a very expensive colony ship. (true in 1.49???)

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Wardad:
A colony module is typically above the 50% resource limit for retrofitting.
Retrofitting colony types would require a very expensive colony ship. (true in 1.49???) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, that's not how it works actually. You are confusing two separate things. One being the cost of doing the retrofit, and the other being the difference in value of the two ship designs. The actual cost of the retrofit has nothing to do with the 50% limit. The game compares the value of one design to the value of the other design and if one is more then 50% greater then the other it doesn't allow the retrofit. If you are taking off one colony comp and putting on another the values of the two designs are identical, so there is no way that would trigger the 50% limit. You do have to pay for the cost of the component, but you could retrofit between two designs where the comp you are replacing was 100% of the total cost of the ship as long as the comp coming off and the comp going on are of comparable (within 50%) value. Assuming of course you had a mod where the value of the ship could be all tied up in one component.

[ June 22, 2004, 16:39: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Wardad]

thank you GEO.