OT-RL treaties and Ranks

[Randallw]

I have had in my mind to post this thread for the Last week or so. How do others see the present RL treaties at the moment?, and also what rank would you place countries?.
The US is clearly ranked 1st. It has 2 major allies in its latest war. The UK which would be about 3rd or 4th, with which it has a Partnership. I was thinking my empire, Australia (ranked 20th, if that, out of 120 "players"), has a Military alliance with the US. This may be changing to a Partnership with an increased trade treaty. There are a number of other allies I don't know much about. Spain ,who's player quit after an event and whose new player left the war, and Poland and Japan.
I apologise if this is being covered in other current threads. Instead of getting angry at peoples views on real life issues, I avoid certain threads where opinions might annoy me.

Edit: just realised the event in Spain wasn't an event, more an intelligence attack.

[ June 05, 2004, 13:33: Message edited by: Randallw ]

[Atrocities]

This might be a good discussion for the Shrapnel General Forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Randallw]

Well If you think so. Really I have no wish to discuss reality though. I just thought it would be whimsical to compare the real world as a SE4 game and decide which position and treaties countries have. Were it to be in a general forum (and I only read the SE4 forum) and If people want to get into an indepth discussion of world politics then I'd rather not get involved. Too much opposing politics criticising each other.

Edit: on second thoughts I suppose if more people are interested the better. I just have a fear of things going downhill when the political opposition starts calling certain governments fascist lackeys of the right wing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ June 05, 2004, 10:30: Message edited by: Randallw ]

[Captain Kwok]

If you were going by score, the US would have already triggered mega-evil status and would be a threat to the other sentient races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Randallw]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . Quite right. I thought Evil Empire was when you owned most of the map. Is it 300% of 2nd or something?.

Do I have to repost the thread in General Forum, or will a Moderator do it?.

[Suicide Junkie]

How many in the general forum would really understand what has already been posted, though?

MEE?
The important distiction between Military Alliance and Partnership?
Player quitting?

[Randallw]

Thats why I was worried by Atrocities suggestion. I couldn't see why people outside the game would, or could, compare SE4 to real life. I jumped to the conclusion he was thinking of the political environment. I have been thinking even people outside the game could do something like discuss what "Rank" countries are.

[se5a]

I guess we (New Zealand) would be partnership with you ausys, maybe T&R or military with ameraca hard to tell with our silly anti nuklear policy...

I dont realy keep up to date with RL treatys, politics and stuff.

[Randallw]

I thought Kiwi Land pulled out of ANZUS 10 years ago, so you would have no military alliance with the US. I think there might be a treaty between us though. The problem is also that (I think) New Zealand has about 2 patrol boats as a navy, and you scrapped all your fighters so you have practically no air force. I used to be worried that Australia was at risk from Indonesia, but have learnt they might have 10 times the troops but they wouldn't stand a chance as our airforce is by far superior to any potential threat. Plus of course at the first sign of trouble we would go crying to the US to save us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

[se5a]

phhht no our navy is a bit better than that, infact our navy has newer aircraft (hellys) than our practicaly nonexsistant airforce...

stupid govit, throwing away our skyhawks...
they might have been old - but hell, they were the BEST skyhawks out there with all the upgrades we did to them.

still, our SAS is meant to be one of the best isint it?

[Randallw]

Originally posted by se5a:
they were the BEST skyhawks out there with all the upgrades we did to them. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know the feeling. We still use F-111's, although we upgrade them every decade. We'll be using them for another 10 years at least, when they'll be about 60 (Like flying spitfires or Mustangs in the first Gulf War). Mind you I think we'll be getting some Raptors in a few years.

Edit: I remember when the Iran-Iraq war was "The Gulf War". Then we had kuwait, then Iraq again.

[se5a]

didnt we manage to sneek one under your raidar and buzz a new ship of yours during a test/wargame a copple of years ago?

[Randallw]

Wouldn't know about that. I tend to remember military stuff I hear, but I don't regularly look such stuff up. My military experience only goes as far as Air Cadets until I discovered I was not allowed to fly a plane.

[Ruatha]

Sweden - Partnership or T&R with EU countries, to others Trade or neutral, depending on country.

You in NZ could propably get some fighters from us, we've ordered 204 of them, but only need 128.....

[ June 12, 2004, 10:39: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Renegade 13]

Canada: Probably a Partnership with the US and Britain. Maybe Military Alliance with Australia and a trade with a bunch of others.

[Randallw]

Heres a list of the top empires by default as they have Stellar Torpedoes (aks: Nuclear Weapons)

1. US.
2. Russia }
3. China } I have my doubts on China and russias exact ranks as one has a large army but no money for anything. The other also has a large army but it is hopelessly out of date.
4. Britain
5. France

The top 5 also have space programs (Wormholes perhaps?)

6. India
7. Pakistan
8. Israel (I am assuming the rumours are true)
9. North Korea (Are the rumours true or not?)

I would like to place Germany in the top 10 but I do not believe they are allowed Nuclear weapons.

[Grauzone]

Originally posted by Randallw:
I would like to place Germany in the top 10 but I do not believe they are allowed Nuclear weapons. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">no nukes in germany. we buy our enemies, not bomb they out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (more civilized art of war) in near future we have also no nuclear power plants (greens in our goverment)

is this rank only military or complete score?

if military: germany is definitively not in the top 10.
if complete: maybe in the first 5.

Alliances: wanted Partnership with all EU-Members + T/R-Alliance with whole world + Military Alliance with NATO-Members.

only my opinion.

[Ruatha]

If you coun't resources and research (1 score per point in game) Japan would be fairly high I'd guess.

[Aiken]

Some figures:

Top ten nations/Military power (by military expenditures):
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_exp_dol_fig
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">1. United States $276.7 billion (FY99 est.)
2. China $55.91 billion (FY02)
3. France $46.5 billion (2000)
4. Japan $39.52 billion (FY02)
5. Germany $38.8 billion (2002)
6. United Kingdom $31.7 billion (2002)
7. Italy $20.2 billion (2002)
8. Saudi Arabia $18.3 billion (FY00)
9. Brazil $13.408 billion (FY99)
10. Korea, South $13,094.3 million (FY02)</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Top ten nations/Economical power (by gross domestic product): http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp_ppp

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">1. United States $9,612.7 billion
2. China $5,019.4 billion
3. Japan $3,394.4 billion
4. India $2,395.4 billion
5. Germany $2,062.2 billion
6. France $1,426.6 billion
7. United Kingdom $1,404.4 billion
8. Italy $1,363.0 billion
9. Brazil $1,299.4 billion
10. Russia $1,219.4 billion</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Randallw]

Originally posted by aiken:

8. Saudi Arabia $18.3 billion (FY00) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The're only so high because they export radioactives to the other empires.

[Aiken]

Btw, how can I calculate research and intel (especially) rank of real-world empire? What kind of measures can be used? Amount of scientists and spies? Heh, I'd be a millionare if I were informed about total amount of CIA spies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif