Space Empires 101 - Galactic Council

[AMF]

Peace has come to the quadrant. We, the Royal Corporate Commonwealth, have accepted the Dei-Orphious surrender, other antagonists are no more.

We would propose therefore the establishment of a Galactic Council to deal with any political issues that might arise in a democratic federated manner.

We propose that voting rights in this council be based upon the populations of each empire and that we deal with any political issues that might arise by 3/4 vote.

We further propose that the first issue we address, as a Council, is the rights to the Woostoid Woqua system, now largely vacant of inhabitants due to recent hostilities. We, the RCC forsake all claims to this system except we would like to colonize the 6th (VI) planet there.

OOC: so, the quadrant has just gotten over a big war, and there are a lot of players left - this might make an interesting game for playing out post-war politics, with a Galactic COuncil, etc...Just a thought...

Alarik

Ps: we could use this thread for galactic news and council deliberations...

[ June 23, 2004, 03:44: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[General Woundwort]

Reflection, surprise, debate. For the future.

- Ambassador Kosh of the Vorlon Empire

[AMF]

Who would be the security council members under this proposal?

And shouldn't votes be given proportionally to population, at least in the "lower house" and according to afixed number in the security council (or is there an "upper house" in this scheme?)

RCC

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Thermolia agrees in principle with the proposal that has been put forth. And we would like to take this opportunity to claim the 13th and 16th planets in the Wootoid Woquia system. This system is of strategic importance and now a gateway into Thermolian space.

We would like to also add an amendment to the proposal as regards to voting rights. Thermolia proposes the addition of a security council made up of three permanent members, each of whom would have a veto. 2 additional members would be voted in each fifty cycles and serving no more than two consecutive terms. These voted in members would also have a veto. The duty of the Security Council would be to maintain the security of known space. And as a secondary function, it would be the duty of this council to develop a plan for controlling the levels of armament that exist across the galaxy.

All votes would be 1 empire 1 vote, with all maters of security being decided by the Security Council. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Wardad]

You all seem to be forgetting my contributions. How big would your empires be if I had been on vacation a little longer?

Gentleman, the race is on to colonize planets.
May we embrace true diversity and share more systems together.

[AMF]

We're not forgetting it at all. WE certainly feel that your empire deserves the lion's share of the spoils, no doubt. We just want to make it all a bit more orderly...

RCC

Originally posted by Wardad:
You all seem to be forgetting my contributions. How big would your empires be if I had been on vacation a little longer?

Gentleman, the race is on to colonize planets.
May we embrace true diversity and share more systems together. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Wardad]

RCC has recieved a large portion of intact Die-O territory. I propose that they refrain from colonizing.

I will restrict my colonization to former Die-O and Electrum systems, including neighboring asteroid systems.

[AMF]

I can agree to refraining from colonizing, that sounds fair. I also ceded two systems to Thermolia this month, to help them rebuild. I don;t think there are actually any empty planets in the core Dei-O systems, but there are a heck of a lot of empty planets in the Woostoid Woqua system. We'll call back my colonizer from going there, we have no problem with that. But this still leaves open the question of how to allocate the WW system planets to others such as Thermolia, Citizen, Rorg, and all the others....

RCC


Originally posted by Wardad:
RCC has recieved a large portion of intact Die-O territory. I propose that they refrain from colonizing.

I will restrict my colonization to former Die-O and Electrum systems, including neighboring asteroid systems. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by alarikf:
Who would be the security council members under this proposal?

And shouldn't votes be given proportionally to population, at least in the "lower house" and according to afixed number in the security council (or is there an "upper house" in this scheme?)

RCC

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would say that the three surviving superpowers should be the permanent members. Cyber Collective, Royal Corporate Commonwealth, and Citizen Federation would be the three as of right now.

As to votes, each race should be given an equal voice in day to day business. But on maters of security, the superpowers have the biggest stick and therefore the loudest voice.

[AMF]

That's certainly acceptable to us.

Now...is the disposition of the Woostoid Woqua system to be addressed in an orderly fashion, or is it still a "race to colonize"?

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
I would say that the three surviving superpowers should be the permanent members. Cyber Collective, Royal Corporate Commonwealth, and Citizen Federation would be the three as of right now.

As to votes, each race should be given an equal voice in day to day business. But on maters of security, the superpowers have the biggest stick and therefore the loudest voice. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Ragnarok]

Our empire is in shambles and it will take years to rebuild to the glory we once had. But with the help of our alliance members it can be done. Getting some order to our systems is first task at hand, having all of our colonies spread out like butter on bread is hurting our people. But we shall complete a ship in the months to come that will enable us to restructure our space and get things in order.

Regent Ragnarok
Of the Rorg Empire

[ June 23, 2004, 20:15: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[AMF]

We would suggest the creation of a Council force composed of Warp-opener ships that can assist your empire in this process. We've got at least one we could committ to such an endeavour.

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
Our empire is in shambles and it will take years to rebuild to the glory we once had. But with the help of our alliance members it can be done. Getting some order to our systems is first task at hand, having all of our colonies spread out like butter on bread is hurting our people. But we shall complete a ship in the months to come that will enable us to restructure our space and get things in order.

Regent Ragnarok
Of the Rorg Empire <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Wardad]

Please don't forget Eysk. He was there fighting and helping.

[Aiken]

Eysk Imperial Guard is ready to openly collaborate with other races of Galactic Council and will be glad to join the Council. Distribution of votes according to the empire population amount is acceptable. However, 5 members, able to use right of the veto is too much in our opinion. 3 elective members (elected once a year or so) is better.

So long as the status of Woostroid Woqua is dabated, I'm deputed to claim our rights to the planets: Woostroid II, III and XIII. It's our trophies captured during the military operation in this system. At the same time we are ready to discuss the sale or exchange of this planets to any interested empire.

We have a special proposal for RCC: we could convert any number of asteroids inside your territory to planets in exchange for colonies in Mannurepha system. Approx. exchange rate: 2 converted planet to 1 existing colony. Please contact us if you're interested.

If RCC will refuse and if any other empire will find such services useful, our fast and seflsustained stellar manipulators could create a planet, open or close warp points for you in any sector of the known galaxy for a reasonable price. Just let us know.[Shameless ad http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ]

Shekk. The Admiral of EIG.

Edit: just read the comments and I agree that Cyber Collective, Royal Corporate Commonwealth, and Citizen Federation are the best pretender to call themselves "The Council Core" (with veto right) even without elections and such.

[ June 23, 2004, 22:27: Message edited by: aiken ]

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Wardad:
I will restrict my colonization to former Die-O and Electrum systems, including neighboring asteroid systems. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would like to lodge to all who read here a formal request to refrain from colonizing planets in systems formerly controlled by Electrum, that are now in Wendigo control; as members of the alliance in which the wendigo are part of undoubtly know, although we have inherited vast planets and fleets with unimaginable power and riches, our planets are in chaos and in continous rioting, which has crippled our economy; we expect that we will need to colonize more planets within our systems once our current social problems subside, but we will not be able to do so, should some of our more aggresive allies decide to claim uninhabited planets in aforementioned systems, which to our estimation, will cause only unnecessary aggravation on both parties and, I am afraid to say, forced removal of, from this moment on we shall refer as, squatter colonies.

Although us Wendigo had not a big part in the removal of Electrum and the Deis, we believe we should rightfully receive what is now rightfully ours.

We have already recieved communication from the Cyber Collective demanding that we begin in earnest demilitarization and hand over one of our fleets, comprised of 60 to 70 warships for compensation. We have already responded that we will not stand for such attempts at subjugation from our own allies, and we say here that we will not stand for any further attempts from any other empire.

Although that we have just mentioned will now be the official policy of the Wendigo, we understand that many of our allies have had planets taken from them, ships and fleets destroyed by Electrum, and had put into effect immeasurable efforts to bring him down, and that they want to be recompensated for it. As of this moment, those nations that demand recompensation shall have their voices heard, and shall have what they demand, as long as they demand reasonably.

And pertaining to this council matter, the Wendigo, following our policy of neutrality and/or humanitarian participation, hereby declare that we will have no part with the Galactic Council, and declare that decisions of the Galactic Council shall have no effect in Wendigo space. However, we recognize the council's rights to the system of Woostroid Woqua, and shall follow the will of the council, according to our own discretion.

Shir-Khan Mustafa
Wendigo Pride

OoC: I'll be moving at the end of the month, so if you want your recompensation, ask now.

[Aiken]

As Wendigo Pride would like to keep neutral status I suggest them to determine their borders more precisely. List of the systems would be sufficient. This will make easier to discuss the problem of any contested systems (if they will appear).

EIG.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by aiken:
As Wendigo Pride would like to keep neutral status I suggest them to determine their borders more precisely. List of the systems would be sufficient. This will make easier to discuss the problem of any contested systems (if they will appear).

EIG. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As you wish, here is a list of systems in which we as of 2410.7 have colonies in, but by no means we have complete control over:

Alemania
Anna
Bisque
Blaga
Charis
Culroon
Da'Atpu
Dysona
Faire
Fwandrei
Gauguin
Hatysa
Indubrama
Luce
Maghemite
Nakhs
New Cylimba
Ord Sabaok
Oxajo
Palomaa
Patterson
Pi'Peoreq
Raushenbakh
Sasha
Strand
Vladimirov
Yatskiv
Yerevan
Zamenhof
Zombie

We would like our borders defined as containing systems mentioned above, and would like to annex:

Iapetus
Uglurz
Grigery
Drillin
Sasha
Raushenbakh

although after discussing with any other nations that are interested in obtaining control over those 6 systems.

And furthermore, although we have spoken of squatter colonies, I, Shir-Khan Mustafa, wish to declare that colonies colonized after 2410.9 inside our declared space will be considered as such, and that colonies that were already colonized shall be known to the pride as rightful colonies of their sovereign nations, and guarantee that their sovereignity shall not be infringed by us.

[ June 23, 2004, 23:53: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[Thermodyne]

Thermolia agrees in principle with the proposal that has been put forth. And we would like to take this opportunity to claim the 13th and 16th planets in the Wootoid Woquia system. This system is of strategic importance and now a gateway into Thermolian space.

We would like to also add an amendment to the proposal as regards to voting rights. Thermolia proposes the addition of a security council made up of three permanent members, each of whom would have a veto. 2 additional members would be voted in each fifty cycles and serving no more than two consecutive terms. These voted in members would also have a veto. The duty of the Security Council would be to maintain the security of known space. And as a secondary function, it would be the duty of this council to develop a plan for controlling the levels of armament that exist across the galaxy.

All votes would be 1 empire 1 vote, with all maters of security being decided by the Security Council.

[Wardad]

Systems:
Iapetus
Uglurz
Grigery
Drillin
Sasha

...were devastated by my fleets,and can be claimed as spoils of war,if I am fast enough.

Dysona...
was devastated by my fleets,
has but one tiny planet left colonized.

Raushenbakh...
a good part was owned by Dei-Os,
thermolian and Eysk helped to devastate that system.

What Say you all?

[AMF]

If the Wendigo desire to opt out of the Galactic Council, the RCC will not stand in their way. It is their right. However, we beleive that the galactic council, serving as it should to resolve conflicts of interest peacefully, beleives it is in the interest of all powers and the quadrant to pursue these issues through the matter of the Council.

Furthermore, we do not disagree that allowing a concentration of power in the hands of the Security Council may be a unwise move. Although we make up a portion of the proposed Security Council, we hope (and propose) that the Security Council be, instead, the enforcement arm of the Galactic Council, and that the Galactic Council be ruled by majority decision, with voting based on population.

With that in mind, we reiterate that although we support the Wendigo desire to opt out of the Galactic Council, we beleive that their interests would be better served by having a voice in the workings of the COuncil and, furthermore, that we (the RCC) pledge to endeavour to bring about a solution to this issue that is acceptable to all involved.

As to the issue of colonies, aside from the territorial changes of our holdings that we have already mentioned (ie: ceding of two systems to Thermolia and relenquishment of all rights over Woostoid Woqua) we consider all current holdings to be soveriegn RCC territory. As far as our current maps indicate, there are no empty planets or asteroids in current RCC holdings. And, if there are, the colonizers that we had sent to Woostoid will be going to them soon, anyways. Our policy on this may change, once we get a better handle on what the former Dei-O holdings comprise, but that is our current stance.

Finally, we beleive that the Council should establish a planet, preferably in a relatively central location, upon which each member of the council would have its embassies and a diplomatic housing station. WE would be interested in hearing nominations for suitable planets, and we propose that each member of the council send a mobile shipyard to said planet (when the Council agrees where it is) to build a diplomatic station to house their delegates.

So, we repeat, we beleive the Galactic COuncil is the best venue for the Wendigo to take up their concerns, rather than dismiss it in it's nascent stage or risk marginalization.

RCC

OOC: Isn't politics cool? Frankly, I personally think its fascinating to see the interplay here...and I am very eager to see what happens in this game. There are plenty of issues that could be dealt with in a "galactic council" manner...and plenty of questions...could make for a very different sort of game, almost like play by committee...but I'll shut up now so I don't let my OOC biases influence all this...and, hey, I'm gone for the next five days, so perhaps by the time I get back the whole Galactic COuncil proposal will have been torpedoed by realpolitik...thanks, Alarik

[Joachim]

"We interupt this broadcast of Inter-Galactic Big Brother and cut to an unfolding news story":

The 3d hologram screen becomes shaky and slightly unclear...

A Dei Flag Admiral in full regalia appears in screen.

"I am Fleet Admiral Estekls of the Dei Liberation Organisation. The Dei Governement may have collapsed as a result of the Religious Zealots bent on the subjugation and destruction of the free peoples of this Quadrant, but we will not stand for their barabrism and will fight with all our means to remove the yoke of opression from all citizens of the Quadrant. We may be few in number now, but we call on all non-zealot races to rise up and destroy the threat to the galaxy that is the Cyber and Citizen evil empires.
We also have in our possesion a Lust class battleship - and we are ready to destroy a sun if thats what it takes.

Rise slaves, break the tyranny of the Religious ones - do not fall for the control and oppression that a galactic council will.. BZZZZZ Click.

"We apologise for this interuption to Inter-galactic big brother, stand by as we return to regular programming".

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by TerranC:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Wardad:
I will restrict my colonization to former Die-O and Electrum systems, including neighboring asteroid systems. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would like to lodge to all who read here a formal request to refrain from colonizing planets in systems formerly controlled by Electrum, that are now in Wendigo control; as members of the alliance in which the wendigo are part of undoubtly know, although we have inherited vast planets and fleets with unimaginable power and riches, our planets are in chaos and in continous rioting, which has crippled our economy; we expect that we will need to colonize more planets within our systems once our current social problems subside, but we will not be able to do so, should some of our more aggresive allies decide to claim uninhabited planets in aforementioned systems, which to our estimation, will cause only unnecessary aggravation on both parties and, I am afraid to say, forced removal of, from this moment on we shall refer as, squatter colonies.

Although us Wendigo had not a big part in the removal of Electrum and the Deis, we believe we should rightfully receive what is now rightfully ours.

We have already recieved communication from the Cyber Collective demanding that we begin in earnest demilitarization and hand over one of our fleets, comprised of 60 to 70 warships for compensation. We have already responded that we will not stand for such attempts at subjugation from our own allies, and we say here that we will not stand for any further attempts from any other empire.

Although that we have just mentioned will now be the official policy of the Wendigo, we understand that many of our allies have had planets taken from them, ships and fleets destroyed by Electrum, and had put into effect immeasurable efforts to bring him down, and that they want to be recompensated for it. As of this moment, those nations that demand recompensation shall have their voices heard, and shall have what they demand, as long as they demand reasonably.

And pertaining to this council matter, the Wendigo, following our policy of neutrality and/or humanitarian participation, hereby declare that we will have no part with the Galactic Council, and declare that decisions of the Galactic Council shall have no effect in Wendigo space. However, we recognize the council's rights to the system of Woostroid Woqua, and shall follow the will of the council, according to our own discretion.

Shir-Khan Mustafa
Wendigo Pride

OoC: I'll be moving at the end of the month, so if you want your recompensation, ask now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Perhaps you would consider the sale of a portion of these fleets to Thermolia? While Thermolia has paid a terrible price in absorbing the main D-O attack, we are still quite solvent.

Thermolia is also in the market for a warp opener and a warp closer. Ours we for the most part lost in the effort to restrict the free movement of the D-O assault fleets.

[TerranC]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Perhaps you would consider the sale of a portion of these fleets to Thermolia? While Thermolia has paid a terrible price in absorbing the main D-O attack, we are still quite solvent<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What do you propose? We are listening.

[AMF]

All,

The RCC government has returned from it's vacation, and would like to mention the follow to the Galactic COuncil

1)In our absence, one of our captains colonized a planet in the Woostoid system. We have just ordered that colony ceded to the THermolians as part of our effort to rejuvenate their economy.

2) In that same vein, we will cede to the Thermolians at least one warp-opening ship in the next month.

3) We would urge that the status of demilitarization and relations with non-COuncil members be taken up publicly, before relations further deteriorate.

4) Further to that, we beleive all Council deliberations should be held publicly, in this forum. While we fully expect private discussions amongst concerned parties, the deliberations of a council body should be public(OOC: and I'd be very dissappointed if there *wasn't* any plotting going on behind the scenes!)

RCC

[trooper]

I wonder what is plotting here...
Just been aware of the existence of this "council", and I see that Wendigo are quite talkative. I wonder why they haven't replied to my private Messages during the Last months, then.

First, let me tell you that I disagree with Wendigo demand for free access to systems once controled by infamous Electrum integrists.

They have never help us to fight them, and moreover they have always provided resources to our ennemies. So they should be glad to have received Electrum ships and planets, and should keep quiet at the moment.

I'll refer to members of the White Coalition for Peace and Wealth, to see if this place is a good place to discuss the galaxy issues.

For Peace and Wealth,
Sky Marechal Brunwick
Citizen Federation

[TerranC]

We of the Pride are not demanding that sole access to those be given to us, the wendigo; (I assume that's what you meant by free access) we are demanding that we be given ownership of them. Should you want the right to colonize those systems we have asked for, you shall recieve that right; we are only asking to the intergalactic community to recognize our right to give you that right by ways of barter and diplomacy.

It is true that we have not aided your nation and other nations militarily during your struggles against the Electrum Empire; and if I understood you correctly, yes, we did maintain diplomatic links and trade with Electrum, and in doing so, possibly the deis. But I ask you, my dear marshal, what would you have done in my position? Declare open war against Electrum, and sacrifice the entire pride to 100-strong dreadnought fleets of his? Do you really think we had a chance with our defunct police force of light cruisers against his armada? We nations that lack in force have in large quantities of wisdom; wisdom that has saved us from being a martyr to your so-called heroic struggle against Electrum and others. And you also say that we had supplied Electrum with our resources? I believe that you are mistaken, for nations that control 20 planets cannot logically feed the war machine of an empire that controls 100.

As for your Last statement regarding our outspokenness, marshal, with all due respect, you will hear our voice everywhere, and anywhere, and at anytime and at all times, until we are truly "glad".

Shir-Khan Mustafa
Wendigo Pride

Originally posted by trooper:
I wonder what is plotting here...
Just been aware of the existence of this "council", and I see that Wendigo are quite talkative. I wonder why they haven't replied to my private Messages during the Last months, then.

First, let me tell you that I disagree with Wendigo demand for free access to systems once controled by infamous Electrum integrists.

They have never help us to fight them, and moreover they have always provided resources to our ennemies. So they should be glad to have received Electrum ships and planets, and should keep quiet at the moment.

I'll refer to members of the White Coalition for Peace and Wealth, to see if this place is a good place to discuss the galaxy issues.

For Peace and Wealth,
Sky Marechal Brunwick
Citizen Federation <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OoC: Alarikf, yes, politics are fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I'd love to continue territorial disputes with just about everyone in the game, especially WarDad and Trooper http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , but unfortunatey, I'll be without internet access until July 12th, due to my moving of dwellings. I'll try to issue orders and queue up on things so that the game could run on schedule during my absence.

OoC: Trooper, what do you mean by PMs? I don't remember getting any PMs of yours?

[ June 29, 2004, 21:17: Message edited by: TerranC ]

[Space_Viking]

We of the Flesh Eaters hive are small, yet we dealt the first and earliest blow in the Electrum war, sacrificing dozens of ships but glassing all planets in one of the Electrum home systems.

True, we accepted a non-agression pact from the Electrum after, but our fleets had already been reduced to a few survivors, and we had no other force in the area.

We have now rebuilt our battlefleets and stand ready to enforce the will of the Alliance. We stand ready to reclaim our worlds in Buber system, but will require several turns to construct adequate troop transports... troops, luckily, we have in plenty.

We shall feast only on the flesh of those that resist... Klingon is rather tough and gamey.

Flesh Eaters Hive

[trooper]

Klingons will not be a problem for too long. I had to regroup my troop transports this month, and next month I'll be ready for some surgical strikes...

For peace and wealth,
Sky Marechal Brunwick.

[Wardad]

Cyber Empires will be taking a long 4th of July weekend, 1st to 4th.

I think others will also.
So maybe we should be on Last Player Upload, 1st to 6th of July?


BTW: I can understand Terran C's postion with the Electrum. Well spoken mate!

[ June 30, 2004, 04:15: Message edited by: Wardad ]

[trooper]

Originally posted by TerranC:
We of the Pride are not demanding that sole access to those be given to us, the wendigo; (I assume that's what you meant by free access) we are demanding that we be given ownership of them. Should you want the right to colonize those systems we have asked for, you shall recieve that right; we are only asking to the intergalactic community to recognize our right to give you that right by ways of barter and diplomacy.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">My right is the right of the first settled.
If you have forgotten to grab Electrum planets for a year now, while we were all busy fighting Dei, too bad for you.



It is true that we have not aided your nation and other nations militarily during your struggles against the Electrum Empire; and if I understood you correctly, yes, we did maintain diplomatic links and trade with Electrum, and in doing so, possibly the deis. But I ask you, my dear marshal, what would you have done in my position? Declare open war against Electrum, and sacrifice the entire pride to 100-strong dreadnought fleets of his? Do you really think we had a chance with our defunct police force of light cruisers against his armada? We nations that lack in force have in large quantities of wisdom; wisdom that has saved us from being a martyr to your so-called heroic struggle against Electrum and others. And you also say that we had supplied Electrum with our resources? I believe that you are mistaken, for nations that control 20 planets cannot logically feed the war machine of an empire that controls 100.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We have proposed to you to join our alliance, Flesh eaters, Arterias, Royal corpo and even Dog warriors have done so, you could have helped too, but in fact you're a coward, aren't you ?



OoC: Alarikf, yes, politics are fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I'd love to continue territorial disputes with just about everyone in the game, especially WarDad and Trooper http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , but unfortunatey, I'll be without internet access until July 12th, due to my moving of dwellings. I'll try to issue orders and queue up on things so that the game could run on schedule during my absence.

OoC: Trooper, what do you mean by PMs? I don't remember getting any PMs of yours? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Very unfortunate, indeed. Remember "absent ones are always wrong".

I've send an alliance proposal using political Messages, but maybe you've missed the turn...
Made another one one or two turns ago.

[AMF]

RCC positions

Colonization issues:

The RCC has no interest in colonizing or claiming any former Electrum worlds.

We do, however, of course, feel it is a good time to re-iterate that the RCC will recolonize all it's planets (RCC & former Dei-O) that were obliterated in the Last war. A planet that was part of the RCC sphere prior to the war is still understood to be an RCC planet unless we have ceded it to Thermolia (which we have done with a few of them) or made otherwise explicit arrangements such as we did in Woostoid Woqua. We have abandoned all claims to the Woostoid system.

Wendigo:

We propose that the disposition of the Council members towards the Wendigo be taken up after their government returns from vacation.

Pace of the Universe:

OOC: There seems to be some people who want the game set to ALPU at least for the long weekend. Is there a quorum on this?

Flesh eater claims:

On the surface, it sounds as if the Flesh Eaters have a strong claim to colonies in the former electrum sphere of influence. We are inclined to support their legal claims, and hence we re-state our preference for orderly claiming of these planets, rather than a first come first served race to them.

Wendigo claims:

We remain disturbed by these, especially given recent events regarding Wendigo agents in the RCC sphere, and in light of Wendigo contributions to the recent war effort against Electrum. We are still deliberating.

RCC

[Wardad]

oops RCC,

You mistakenly colonized a planet at Woostroid Woostra, after you promised not too.

My poor colonizer is now low on fuel and has no where else near to go except Birch VIII.

How about a strait across swap?

Cybersol

[AMF]

Yeah, I think I mentioned this a few Posts down, but when I missed a turn a colonizer of mine went and colonized in Woostoid. I have since ceded that colony to Thermolia already....Last time I checked, though, weren't there plenty of empty planets there? Also, you should be able to refuel at a number of the colonies there, since you are partnered with at least one of those powers, no?

Originally posted by Wardad:
oops RCC,

You mistakenly colonized a planet at Woostroid Woostra, after you promised not too.

My poor colonizer is now low on fuel and has no where else near to go except Birch VIII.

How about a strait across swap?

Cybersol <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[AMF]

edit: deleted double post due to network glitch.

[ July 01, 2004, 16:51: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[AMF]

Whoa, we just re-read your message, and noticed this little bit that slipped by us:

Originally posted by Wardad:
My poor colonizer is now low on fuel and has no where else near to go except Birch VIII.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ummm...Birch is considered off-limits to all others by our councils, but we will consider ceding you another planet in a different location. However, we do fully beleive that since there are many other planets in Woostoid Woqua that those should be the site of your colonizer vessels' landing. We're a reasonable people, we're pretty certain that something can be worked out so long as no one acts in haste...

thanks,

RCC
Alarik

[Wardad]

It is a Gas colonizer.
There are no free gas planets in WW.
I did clear out Birch VIII and destroy the Dei-O fleet guarding the warp points.

anywho, we can work it out later after the holidays.

[Aiken]

I have to warn Flesh Eaters Hive from some hasty steps. During diplomatic and trade interactions with Klingons we discovered many similarities in our cultures, and I consider Klingon empire as our brothers. We will not allow anybody to freely exterminate this proud and independent nation with their undisputable right for existance and prosperity. Our support will be expressed in the instant military response.

Also I don't understand the willing of the Citizen Federation to aid agressive means of Flesh Eaters against Klingons. I have to point the Federation that this decision is too rash. This plan will not make any honor for Citizen Federation. Desctruction of the whole races was the reason of our struggle against devilish coalition of Electrum and Dei-O.

I'm asking all the Council members to not allow slaughter to start. Make your vote for peace, not war!

Eisk Imperial Guard

[trooper]

We have no will to exterminate Klingons.
It would too easy and not honorable from us to simply glass their planets and re-colonize their ruins. Klingons citizens are not responsible for the stupid politic followed by their leader. Moreover, we need to increase our own empire population.

That's why we have planned a huge troop and intel operation. As Klingons soldier skills are "non existant" and my troops are well trained, these operation may cause Klingons planets to fall very kickly, without much collateral damages.

I also warn you, Eysk, that any attack against a member of the White Coalition would be extremely dangerous for the agressor.

Regards,

For peace and wealth,

Sky Marechal Brunwick
Citizen Federation

[Paul1980au]

Lets have the war lol

[Aiken]

What's White Coalition? Is it an underground organisation created for dirty purposes of galactic dictatorship of selected empires (namely, Citizen Federation)? Who else are the members of this Coalition? We'd like to know this.

Now I totally lost the whole idea of Galactic Council - all the members keep silence about the imperialistic intensions of Citizen Federation and its satellites. So what's the purpose of this Council - to divide the spoils of war? An that's all? Then our empire don't want to be a member of Council. It's a fictitious organisation without real power and objectives.

We will wait for 2 mounths for your opinions, and in case of ignoring of this problem we will quit the GC. It will a little loss for Council, but it will be a first loss in a row.

Dixi.

Admiral Shekk of Eysk Imperial Guard.

[AMF]

Don't feel bad...we too have no idea what the "white coalition" is. WE think it's the coalition that fought the Last war, in which case I guess we're a member of it, but we never heard about it until recently either...


Originally posted by aiken:
What's White Coalition? Is it an underground organisation created for dirty purposes of galactic dictatorship of selected empires (namely, Citizen Federation)? Who else are the members of this Coalition? We'd like to know this.

Now I totally lost the whole idea of Galactic Council - all the members keep silence about the imperialistic intensions of Citizen Federation and its satellites. So what's the purpose of this Council - to divide the spoils of war? An that's all? Then our empire don't want to be a member of Council. It's a fictitious organisation without real power and objectives.

We will wait for 2 mounths for your opinions, and in case of ignoring of this problem we will quit the GC. It will a little loss for Council, but it will be a first loss in a row.

Dixi.

Admiral Shekk of Eysk Imperial Guard. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[trooper]

The White Coalition has been created when Dei's Empire surrendered. All empires have been invited to join it at this period. Seems you have ignored the Messages I've send to you during the Last months.
Its purpose is to create a grouped force of empires capable of maintaining peace in the galaxy, and supporting each other if an enemy stands up against it.

former members are :

- Arteria
- Citizen Federation
- Constructs
- Cyber Collective
- Dog Warriors
- Flesh Eaters
- Royal Corporate
- Vorlons

new member this month :

- Thermolians

As you can see, all together, we have the objectives, and we have the power.

[trooper]

I was not speaking to you, King Bio. You have been one of the first to sign for the coalition (which was a very good thing) and to give your opinions to members about the Wendigo issue. Are you suffering from amnesia ?

I'm not threatening Eysk, I'm just warning him that his war projects about Flesh Eaters may cause him a LOT of problems. Now that he knows who allied to FE, he'll watch his tongue and keep quiet in the future. Eysk have not moved a finger to help Klingons in their war against Constructs for ages, so I'm quiet surprised of the suddent love affair between them...

In my opinion, deterrence is the best way to keep peace in this galaxy. As we say here "Let him who desires peace prepare for war."

[AMF]

RE:

Originally posted by trooper:
I was not speaking to you, King Bio. You have been one of the first to sign for the coalition (which was a very good thing) and to give your opinions to members about the Wendigo issue. Are you suffering from amnesia ?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Quite possibly! heh. Sorry! Got lost in all the message traffic...

[Space_Viking]

The Flesh Eaters Hive, which reflects only our taste in food and not our inclinations, shall follow the lead of allies in responding to clear threats.

We are a small nation, and have no ambitions of expansion beyond our current sphere.

The Klingons are currently our partners, but remain at war with an ally, and did not join in the Great War. Our target remains only a single world within the Buber system, and if we attack we shall invade with overwhelming troops, and attempt to limit collateral damage as much as possible.

Additionally, we shall not attack until a request has been specifically made from our ally.

[Wardad]

Personally I don't understand what the fuss is about these Klingons. They are ruled by an AI!!! A machine intelligence with no bio oversight. We of the Cyber collective are appalled that such an abomination is allowed to exsist. The liberation of the Klingon race should proceed.

The real unspoken question is:
Are you comfortable with Citizen Federation or Cyber Collective doing it and becoming even stronger? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[AMF]

Ah...sorry if I didnt reply to the "join the White Coalition" Messages - they must have slipped past me. More likely, I thought that it was a synonym for the Galactic Council, and just ingored them. Our bad.

In any case, our position remains the same: we don't see war as the best answer to the galaxy's immediate problems, and we don;t necessarily support threats against other non-White Coalition members. We feel it is better to work out issues in the Council through debate and resort to war as the Last resort. We're just not sure that there are issues at stake here that are worth a war breaking out again so soon after the Last big one.

RCC

Originally posted by trooper:
The White Coalition has been created when Dei's Empire surrendered. All empires have been invited to join it at this period. Seems you have ignored the Messages I've send to you during the Last months.
Its purpose is to create a grouped force of empires capable of maintaining peace in the galaxy, and supporting each other if an enemy stands up against it.

former members are :

- Arteria
- Citizen Federation
- Constructs
- Cyber Collective
- Dog Warriors
- Flesh Eaters
- Royal Corporate
- Vorlons

new member this month :

- Thermolians

As you can see, all together, we have the objectives, and we have the power. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Aiken]

Hive Queen of Flesh Eaters:

Glad to hear the good sense in your words, not the anger or hate. Your rational explanation makes the solution of the Klingon's problem a lot more simplier. We will contact Klingon ruler to work out the Buber VIII issue.

Sky Marechal Brunwik of Citizen Federation:

I will reply to your accusations in order they follow, Marechal.

I'm not threatening Eysk, I'm just warning him that his war projects about Flesh Eaters may cause him a LOT of problems. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Eysk has no interest to military preparations to war with any known race, including Flesh Eaters. We have a big sympathy towards Flesh Eaters because green color is my favourite one. And we still don't recommend them to invade Klingon's planets.

Now that he knows who allied to FE, he'll watch his tongue and keep quiet in the future <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Where's no force in the galaxy which able to dictate us what to speak and when we are allowed to speak. We will speak because we can. So your orders, Marechal, are useless. Keep them for more sensible race. We won't bent our head under your pressure.

Eysk have not moved a finger to help Klingons in their war against Constructs for ages, so I'm quiet surprised of the suddent love affair between them... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's so sad to hear this information! Proud and independent Klingons haven't told us about this war. That is probably because of the fact that it was not very successful for them.
Additionaly we have contacted Klingons right before the Electrum conflict. Each ship was too valued to send it to the opposite side of the galaxy. Although our relations with Klingons have no long history behind, our mutial sympathy and understanding grew up very quickly.

The White Coalition has been created when Dei's Empire surrendered. All empires have been invited to join it at this period. Seems you have ignored the Messages I've send to you during the Last months. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Such a message was sent during my 2 mounth vacation on the ice resorts of Lambadini, I guess. But my ministers haven't informed me about any proposals from Citizen Federation. Are you sure that you've proposed this to Eysk, Marechal?

And Last. I know about the artificial nature of Klingon's leader. But where's a nuance - this AI is the digitalized personality of Chanselor Chris. He died too early and had no successor. So his scientists copied him into the computer until the new chansellor will come to power.
Unfortunately, due to unavoidable bugs in a software, Chris has some problems with memory and decision making module, but be a bit more tolerant to him - it's not his fault.

Admiral Shekk
Eysk IG.

[trooper]

Well. All this affair seems clear now.

Anyway, Klingons'fate is sealed. Klingons citizens will integrate citizen federation, constructs, dogs warriors and flesh eaters empires.

[trooper]

What about playing the turn ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[AMF]

I'll certainly run it as soon as we have all but TerranC's orders, since he said to go ahead and not wait for him...but I think putting the game on ALPU has allowed a few people to be a bit slower in getting their turns in...so...I've sent out a notice to all players and as soon as there are some more orders in I'll run it....we should get back on the fasttrack in a few days in any case, once people get back from vacations etc...

Alarik

Originally posted by trooper:
What about playing the turn ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[trooper]

No new issue this month ? strange...

As the "first in / first settled" rule also applies to me, I've undertooken to let cyber build and colonize Iapetus system and let Eysk make Carmionas one of their systems.
So no one will say that I'm used to grab any planet / asteroid in sight, no matter who is already there...

Eysk have stolen Buber XVIII planet from Klingons using intel. As this planet was supposed to belong to Flesh eaters, I suggest to let them find an arrangement together.

I'm also glad to say that more than half of Klingon worlds have been freed. Despite some bad orders given to my troop transports Last month
(some novice officers are responsible for this regrettable error and have been fired) which have delayed several ground attacks, this issue will be over soon.
I'm still waiting for dog warriors to attack Klingons troops in their own systems... If Nothing is done soon, I'll have to do it by myself.

I also welcome the Wendigos in the WCP, as we have signed a partnership treaty this month.

For peace and wealth

Sky Marechal Brunwick
Citizen Federation

[AMF]

For years now, Thermolia and the Corporate Commonwealth have stood side by side in their stuggles against their enemies and the forces of Darkness. While the RCC never really beleived the Dei-Orphouios were as evil as Thermolia did, we both stood side by side in the struggle against the Dei-O.

During that struggle the Thermolians bore the brunt of the Dei-O assualts, billions of their people died, and the RCC hosted millions of their refugees.

In time, the Dei-O empire surrendered to the RCC, integrating their people and culture into ours.

Now, with the passage of time, the government of the RCC is composed of not only members of the RCC race, but also in large numbers, Thermolians and Dei-Orpheous people.

The peoples of the RCC feel that the time has come for even greater political and cultural integration amongst these three peoples, in a further bid for peace in the galaxy. To this end, we are contemplating a merger of the RCC, in full, with the Thermolian people.

The leadership of the RCC, having raised their people out of the muck and slime of their homeworlds and shephered them to greatness and suprmeacy and enlightenment, now feel that it is time to step aside and let the inevitable historical forces of cultural inegration take the RCC and Dei-O peoples into the future.

If the races of the Galaxy feel that this would greatly upset the balance of power and present a threat to peace and stability, we *may* reconsider. But, otherwise, the current leadership of the RCC has deemed that retirement is their preferred option. Long live The RCC, Long live Thermolia, and long live the Thermolian-RCC Union!

(OOC: I am sorely in need of cutting down on my games in order to devote more time to my proposal topic. Ceding the RCC assets to Thermolia not only makes sense from a role-playing and historical perspectiove, but also from a geo-political one. if there is *serious* pushback on this, I may reconsider, but let me know ASAP...of course, I'll continue to host the game, I just won't be playing in it)

Thanks,

Alarik

[Wardad]

RCC has insulted the Cyber Collective with their unbalanced planet trade offer. We are doubly offended that this treatment would come from such a close friend that we have been so generous with and helped fight their wars.
We are still upset that RCC went back on it's word, colonized a planet in WW and then gave it to another friend.

Cyber Collective now wishes to downgrade the RCC Partner Treaty to TR.
Let us stand with true friends.

[AMF]

Well, we are willing to make another offer, of course. WE're reasonable. And, as we mentioned before, the colonization was a mistake on our part, due to a rogue computer controlling the colonization vessel at the time. Make us a counter-offer...?

Originally posted by Wardad:
RCC has insulted the Cyber Collective with their unbalanced planet trade offer. We are doubly offended that this treatment would come from such a close friend that we have been so generous with and helped fight their wars.
We are still upset that RCC went back on it's word, colonized a planet in WW and then gave it to another friend.

Cyber Collective now wishes to downgrade the RCC Partner Treaty to TR.
Let us stand with true friends. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[AMF]

OK, tell you what: tell us what you want in return, and we'll find a suitable planet that fits your criteria. We don't want Thermolia to inherit any problems or issues.

RCC

Originally posted by Wardad:
RCC has insulted the Cyber Collective with their unbalanced planet trade offer. We are doubly offended that this treatment would come from such a close friend that we have been so generous with and helped fight their wars.
We are still upset that RCC went back on it's word, colonized a planet in WW and then gave it to another friend.

Cyber Collective now wishes to downgrade the RCC Partner Treaty to TR.
Let us stand with true friends. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Aiken]

Our work in Carmonias was coordinated with King Maximal of Arteria Federation, since this system lies inside of his empire's borders. Created planets will be shared between Eysk and Arteria. I hope colony ships of Citizen Federation won't colonize the planets created by our astroengineering ships to confirm the first settled rule.

Yes, we are not going to hold the rebelled Klingon planets under our control. The only aim of the Buber operation (and others) was the minimization of collaterial damage for Klingon people. As we know Citizen Federation glassed some Klingon's planets so our approach has already justified.
I suggest Citizen Federation to stop military actions agains inhabbited planets again. Political methods will solve this problem.
In conclusion: claim you rights to an ex-Klingon planets and your request will be satisfied. For a little price, of course.

Also, I don't feel strong neccessity to maintain our presence in Woostroid. So they're open for a sale. Preferred partners are Cyber Collective and Thermolia-RCC.

And as I've said before, Marechal Brunwik, your huge fleet in Zir system, will make no difference to our decisions. Please arrange your military parade in other place. I won't allow my people to suffer from desperate war with Citizen Federation, remember this, please.

[Wardad]

That is a very good offer coming form the EysK Imperial Guard. I do believe I have a few planets scattered in among his systems. This could be a good time to do a little planet swapping.

I am not Cyber HQ at the moment. I am delayed on some very long boring days of routine duty. I may not be able to update our diplomatic proposals before the coming session.

[AMF]

The RCC, in one of its final official acts, has gifted to the Cyber collective TWO good planets in the Mannurapha system. Combined, they provide over 35 facility slots, a shipyard, six intel centers and some other miscellaneous facilities. WE trust this will alleviate any insult our earlier trade offer caused. If not, well, we would question the Cyber's sanity since the trade is heavily weighted in their favour. As mentioned earlier, we wish to resolve all issues so as not to burden the new Thermolian regime with outstanding issues.


Originally posted by Wardad:
That is a very good offer coming form the EysK Imperial Guard. I do believe I have a few planets scattered in among his systems. This could be a good time to do a little planet swapping.

I am not Cyber HQ at the moment. I am delayed on some very long boring days of routine duty. I may not be able to update our diplomatic proposals before the coming session. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[trooper]

Originally posted by aiken:

And as I've said before, Marechal Brunwik, your huge fleet in Zir system, will make no difference to our decisions. Please arrange your military parade in other place. I won't allow my people to suffer from desperate war with Citizen Federation, remember this, please. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This war fleet is on its way home. It's quite slow, so you 'll have to bear its presence for one or two month in Zir.

Regards,

Sky Marechal Brunwick.

[Aiken]

2 Cybersol:
Please send us your trade offer next mounth. I will review it. I'd like to recieve 2 planets that are not too far from our space.


2 Sky Marechal Brunwik:

Thank you for your kind explanation. We can wait for a couple of months.

[Wardad]

You talk like a snake in the grass Alarik.
You have bent my words out of shape.
You asked if this was unbalancing for the game.
I never made a demand, and included others in my suggestions.

I saved your butt and the Themolians butt from the Dei-O you both started. Three major battles were faught and won by my fleets against superior Dei-O numbers (yea, it surprised me too). Eysk fleet was also there helping, and Trooper's fleet had just arrived from a great distance.

Why should we not share the bounty?

Is Thermodyne a buddy from RL?

[Aiken]

Originally posted by Wardad:
You talk like a snake in the grass Alarik.
...
Is Thermodyne a buddy from RL? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This argument becomes too personal. Although I'm not a RCC advocate, this issue can be resolved without personal offence. Total war is a good alternative http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 14, 2004, 22:06: Message edited by: aiken ]

[Thermodyne]

OOC: This is really getting out of hand. Alarik and I have been allied since the beginning of this game, and that was because of a common threat on a border we shared. Beyond that we have had very little contact. IIRC, we have been in a game or two, but not as close allies.

As to the war, that is old news. There were two targets and I went after the D-O. As part of a larger coalition I might add.

Now to upsetting the balance of the game, I would think that you would be happy. His empire was much stronger in his hands then it will be in mine. I am far form being one of the more skilled players in this game.

To the surrender of the D-O and who they chose to surrender to, I can not speak. I was not a party to any of the discussions. But I would add that they at least surrendered to someone that they were actually at war with. Unlike the surrender their partner made.

In closing the OOC part, I would like to remind everyone that this is just a game. We are supposed to be enjoying the challenges that it presents.

[Thermodyne]

IC: Thermolia finds itself in a state of great turmoil. With the recovery from the war just beginning to get under way, we find ourselves faced with the challenge of creating a coalition government to lead the merged peoples that now call the Expanse their home. We realize that the recent hostilities have left the galaxy with great amount of disorder. As we get a grasp of the holdings that now make up the Expanse, we fully intend to see that historic and Natural borders are restored. We call on all peace loving empires to cast aside the evil that is war, and work to establish a Lasting peace.

[AMF]

OOC:

Whoa dude!

What would have had me do? I thought, for game balance, historical, and role-playing reasons, it made the most sense. Sorry if you have heartburn over it. And, no, I don't know thermodyne.

ta ta,

Alarik

Originally posted by Wardad:
You talk like a snake in the grass Alarik.
You have bent my words out of shape.
You asked if this was unbalancing for the game.
I never made a demand, and included others in my suggestions.

I saved your butt and the Themolians butt from the Dei-O you both started. Three major battles were faught and won by my fleets against superior Dei-O numbers (yea, it surprised me too). Eysk fleet was also there helping, and Trooper's fleet had just arrived from a great distance.

Why should we not share the bounty?

Is Thermodyne a buddy from RL? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[AMF]

It has become clear that there are certain parties who are distressed by the upcoming merger of the RCC with the Thermolian empire.

Specifically, it has been requested by the Cyber collective that they receive all the former Dei-O systems. WE have not done this, and we were very surprised by this request, for we had no inkling of such desires until now.

WE have urged all parties involved in this to be moderate and restrained in their actions.

We have given the Cyber two excellent planets in exchange for our accidental colonization of a planet they had desired in the Woostoid system. This trade is much more than fair to cyber - especially given that they already possess many planets in Woostoid.

Therefore we ask that they refrain from any inflamatory actions towards Thermolia, in the interest of resolving any outstanding issues.

We have also urged Thermolia to pursue the resolution of any issues that remain.

We fundamentally question the desire for Cyber to possess all of the former Dei-O systems now, when previously they had expressed no such desire. To bringup such issues now seems ill-timed at best, ill-intentioned at worst.

Our merger with Thermolia was the best option available to us. Thermolia was totally decimated by the war with Dei-O. They were, effectively, a minor power that had always supported the RCC. Thus, combinging our empires results in no change in the balance of power - nothing will change effectively. hence, there should be no concern over this unless it is based on jealousy or ulterior motives.

We urge all to resolve this issues peacefully as the RCC leadership retires.

RCC

[AMF]

The RCC would like to apologize if it mistook Cyber declarations to mean that they made a demand. WE based this on Messages from them. (ie:"This gives me serious heartburn.
I rescued both of you from a war Thermolia started. I recieved nothing for it. You recieved all of Dei-Os territory. Give Thermolia your native systems. Give Cyber, Eysk, and Trooper the Dei-O systems. I will not tolerate Thermolia recieving such resources. Not after this message from them: Message from the Thermolian Expanse:
"We offer this gift with the hope that you will bend over and grab them ankles.")

So...our bad. WE apologize. WE DID jump to conclusions. However, we stand by our beleif that a request emerged where before there was not one. And the Cyber have said as much in seperate emails.

Now, to the issue at hand: it was NEVER our intention to unbalance the political or strategic situation at hand. The RCC always strove to be a voice for moderation and peace amongst a battle weary quadrant. The RCC government had perceived a need to retire, and viewed the merger with Thermolia as the best option to maintain the strategic and political balance as well as be true to cultural and historical events and trends. WE based this on arguments we have already made.

Clearly, there is some concern over this. (Clearly! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

WE are HIGHLY distressed that such concern would have reached such a fever pitch that paranormal concerns (ie: out-of-game OOC concerns) would have been voiced.

Certainly, we admit that we perhaps should have done things differently in order to avoid such troubles. Perhaps we should have put the issue of the retirement of the RCC government to a public discussion...we did not, for we didn't really feel that this would maintain the strategic and political balance that existed.

WE still feel that the fate of the RCC should be determined by the RCC...and that if we allow it to be carved up by various powers, then we, as the RCC government, would be remiss in our duties to our people.

Furthermore, we do not agree that the Cybers, and Citizen collective and others "...saved your butt and the Themolians butt from the Dei-O you both started." Indeed, we didn't start the war, the Dei-O and those other fellas did. True, we didn;t do so well, and thermolia got hurt bad, but that does not seem to logically justify the fate of the RCC citizens being left up to others.

Finally, we also realize that much of the concern may be derived from the differnet political attitudes of the RCC and Thermolians. The RCC has always prided itself and tried to attain the role of moderator and voice for peaceful resolution of conflicts as well as a steadfast ally. We cannot speak for the Thermolians, but, obviously, some do not feel that they would be the same voice of moderation. Some may even fear the concentration of power that the RCC merger with them might result in. There concerns are well noted by us.

AS of yet....we have NO answers to these problems. So we will think about them. For a bit. And we welcome public comment.

OOC: Ok, I am REALLY bummed that my attempt to cut down my invovlement in the 101 game has resulted in soem bad feelings and out-of-game concerns. This was not my intention, and I accept full blame - I clearly didn;t plan as well as I should have. I truly thought this would all be a non-issue. My first and foremost concern is to fix all ill feelings that are out-of-game. How can I do that? Should I stay in the game as RCC? What? Ideas? I have put the game on very temporay hold until I think through this without beer in me.

Thanks,

Alarik

ALSO: I just noticed that Thermodyne is listed as being from "DC Burbs USA." That's funny. I too am listed as living in DC I think, but I actually moved from there to Norfolk almost a year ago now. In any case, this is a non-issue. Don't know the fella. And, even if I did, I'd think he was probably wacko. I mean, who is gonna be named "thermodyne"? after all? But seriosuly folks, I don;t know anyone here that would allow RL relationships to stand in the way of their gameplay. I would not. I am not going to revisit this issue again, since if I do I'll probably get all "self righteous" and insulted and the result would only be escalatory. Besides, I've had a few beers right now and I'm looking forward to doing a few SEIV turns and relaxing with this cool game...

[trooper]

Alarikf,

You talk too much. Do what you think is best before leaving the game.

After all, it's just a game, and it's time for an alliance to win.

Too bad if this victory is helped by player's abandonments.

Trooper

[ July 15, 2004, 07:52: Message edited by: trooper ]

[Joachim]

Originally posted by alarikf:
Furthermore, we do not agree that the Cybers, and Citizen collective and others "...saved your butt and the Themolians butt from the Dei-O you both started." Indeed, we didn't start the war, the Dei-O and those other fellas did. True, we didn;t do so well, and thermolia got hurt bad, but that does not seem to logically justify the fate of the RCC citizens being left up to others.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, as the long dead ghost of the Dei, I want to clarify a couple of things.
The Dei started the war with the RCC, the Termolians attacked the Dei and sent a message not dis-similar to the one mentioned, thats why we ceased attacks on the RCC and went all out on the Therms.
The Dei after exhausting diplomatic options were in no postion to survive - evil talisman (but thats a different whinge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). The only people that had been reasonable to the Dei during the negotiations were, paradoxically, the RCC. That is why we surrendered to them.

[trooper]

Originally posted by Joachim:

The only people that had been reasonable to the Dei during the negotiations were, paradoxically, the RCC. That is why we surrendered to them. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I confirm. When Dei asked for a peace treaty, I told him to f... off. But that was pure military roleplaying, of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

As when I declared war to Electrum, pretending I couldn't stand queers in pyjama... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[AMF]

Originally posted by Joachim:
[QUOTE]...The only people that had been reasonable to the Dei during the negotiations were, paradoxically, the RCC. That is why we surrendered to them. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And now I've gone and abandoned your empire! Boy, you must love me now!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Thermodyne]

OOC: Well, while we are clarifying things, let me add that Thermolias attack on the D-O was in response to their attack on my ally. Some type of war was bound to happen, but this is what forced the issue. Also let me add that there seems to be a lot of confusion between in character and out of character Messages. All in game Messages are IC unless marked otherwise. Forum Posts can be either, and as such should be tagged. Same would hold true of email. Now, some would seem to have found the default text of Thermolian in game Messages offensive. This was the intent when the file was created. There have been some Messages in the game where I forgot to replace this text and there have also been some where I intentionally left it in place. I have apologized to the person who got one accidentally and I would ask the rest of you to remember that they are IC Messages. The Thermolians have been around longer than SE4 and they are a race lead by a revivified dead guy, polite conversation is not something they are known for. They are good honorable allies, but not the kind of people you would invite to dinner at your moms house. The actual intent of the message texts was to cause anger when the Thermolians were used as an AI. That seems to be a success http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . None of the Messages were sent as or intended to be taken OOC.

[AMF]

OOC: led by a "revivified dead guy"? Now that is nasty.

[Thermodyne]

OOC: LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Take a close look at the race pix's.

I'll have to dig up my old race profile from the ladder, it was an army of the dead kind of thing.

[Thermodyne]

OOC: OK here is what the Thermolians were back in the days of the Borg Forum and The SE3 Ladder. They were actually temporal before SE4 made it fashionable! Of late they have become more religious where it is allowed and more Organic when religion is suppressed. But they are still the same old dead meat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Ladder Data on the Thermolians:


The Thermolians are an energy based race which evolved in the Quasars at the center of the galaxy. They revivify the dead bodies of their victims in order to interact in normal space. Their average lifespan is eternal. They have very little technology of their own, and are quite adept at stealing what they need from other races. They do tend to adapt these designs to their own manufacturing methods and materials.


The Thermolians are aggressive and known as devious schemers.
The Thermolians are a dictatorial empire dedicated to spreading its influence across the galaxy. The government keeps all of its citizens in line and allows no dissention. The society is ruled absolutely by the current emperor, with new emperors coming to power only after the current one has been killed in mortal combat by another Thermolian. This has only been known to happen two times in the Last three billion years. There are the occasional rebellions, but they are put down quickly and violently. Most of the galaxy has heard of the fate that The Last First Speaker suffered when he aspired to the throne.

Originally the Thermolians were not considered much of a threat to other species. They were largely unknown, being mentioned only in old myths. This is largely due to the fact that the Thermolians only leave their Quasars once every half million years or so, although a few remain on occupied worlds and never return. These are usually thought to be demons and devils by the local populations.

[AMF]

OOC: Whoa! Gross! You're just lucky I didn't know this before I merged with your empire! double nasty points to you for these guys...

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
OOC: OK here is what the Thermolians were back in the days of the Borg Forum and The SE3 Ladder.... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Wardad]

I'll let you know when I'm OOC.

I'm not buying Thermolians excuse for the message.
It came in response to my polite inquiry to trade resources and 5 DNs for a small planet of theirs in my system. A simple "NO" would have been acceptable.
Their reply was "We offer this gift with the hope that you will bend over and grab them ankles."

This response greatly angered Rear Admiral Hemorrhoid, who is raising a bloody mess about it.

[Wardad]

Originally posted by Joachim:
...The Dei after exhausting diplomatic options were in no postion to survive - evil talisman (but thats a different whinge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). [/QB]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OOC:

Odd, you did not negotiate with the Cybers, or offer them systems.
Unless you consider your offer to conquer the galaxy together a cease fire negotiation.

...evil talisman... bwahahahahaha... sure go a head and blame it.
blame it for 3 major battle loses where:
1. you were defender, had the first firing round advantage, and missed.
2. your ships orders caused them to fire at range 4 ships instead of range 0 or 1 ships.
3. you had superior numbers and tonnage.
4. you had the wave motion gun.

I suspect your ships and fleets were not fully trained. I was surpised by the lopsided victories.


The talisman is a nice touch, but I also had a few tricks in my ships that helped a bit. Also, the Cybers do have a great defense rating, and are fully trained.

[AMF]

OOC: I have now set the turn to run on Jul 17, 2004 2:21:55 PM EDT. It is a "timed turn only" so you all can switch your turns up until that point,at which point the turn will run. Sorry for the delay/hassle/etc...

EDITS: I'll put the game back on autoturns after this turn.

Thanks,
Alarik

[ July 15, 2004, 20:19: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[Joachim]

Originally posted by Wardad:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Joachim:
...The Dei after exhausting diplomatic options were in no postion to survive - evil talisman (but thats a different whinge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OOC:

Odd, you did not negotiate with the Cybers, or offer them systems.
Unless you consider your offer to conquer the galaxy together a cease fire negotiation.

...evil talisman... bwahahahahaha... sure go a head and blame it.
blame it for 3 major battle loses where:
1. you were defender, had the first firing round advantage, and missed.
2. your ships orders caused them to fire at range 4 ships instead of range 0 or 1 ships.
3. you had superior numbers and tonnage.
4. you had the wave motion gun.

I suspect your ships and fleets were not fully trained. I was surpised by the lopsided victories.


The talisman is a nice touch, but I also had a few tricks in my ships that helped a bit. Also, the Cybers do have a great defense rating, and are fully trained. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope, you are wrong in nearly all your wild allegations.
But I'll leave it there and not hichjack the thread anymore.

[AMF]

Originally posted by trooper:
Alarikf,

You talk too much. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's been said before. You should see me when I get REALLY worked up about something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I just hate to see a game 'fouled' or bad feelings engendered by my leaving, when I might've avoided this by leaving in a "better" manner. Not sure if that actually would have been possible, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Originally posted by trooper:
Alarikf,
Do what you think is best before leaving the game.

After all, it's just a game, and it's time for an alliance to win.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, and that, ironically, makes it all the more important that I make it perfectly clear that there was
1) no harm no foul - either intended or taken - by anyone, hopefully
2) I meant no disruption by my leaving - in or out of game
3) I REALLY thought that it made perfect sense to do what I did (ie: cede RCC to Thermolia) given what had gone on in the game earlier and the strategic situation. Again, my misperception.

Originally posted by trooper:
Too bad if this victory is helped by player's abandonments.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, my take is not that it is an "abandonment" but a political development. Politics is affected by "events" in reality - it's like the sudden collapse of the USSR or the revolution in France: no one could have predicted it, but it happened and it's a fact of life. I find it fascinating to examine how states respond to "big changes" like that - "something big happens that you aren't ready for, how do you deal with it?" And SEIV, being, partly, a strategic "simulation," is one way of observing such reactions.

Nevermind. I'm "talking too much" again.

Alarik

[Thermodyne]

IC:
Thermolia brings distressing news to the council today. We had planed to make an announcement of realignment and repatriation, but this is not possible under the current conditions. Thermolia and it’s newly joined peoples are under attack by the Cyber Collective. This is a most heinous act and was not preceded by any declaration of war. This war is a blatant act of aggression with the sole goal being the prevention of the realignment that Thermolia was planning to negotiate. Instead of gracefully receiving their fair share and just rewards, the CC has used its massive fleets to take what it is not lawfully entitled to. To allow them success in this endeavor will doom the galaxy to enslavement, and bring an end to civilization as we enjoy it today. We will all be doomed to be ruled by a race of ankle grabbers.

Thermolia now calls on its allies. We ask that they come to our aid during this time of need. We ask that they drive the barbarian ankle grabbers back to their dens. And restore peace to the galaxy. Only then can an equitable realignment take place. Only then can these worlds be returned to their rightful owners.


OOC: Ok here is the short Version. Any allies that show up for the fight will be well compensated. As it stands now, the CC will get it all. And we all know that this will not be the end of it, how will you stand against him then?

[Wardad]

Well, of course. NOW you act reasonable.
NOW you talk about negotiations and sharing.
There was no mention of that before, you know, back when I objected to RCC gifting an empire to you. That would have been the time to message.

The Cyber Empire has a long standing history of generousity, and will continue to do so.

It is sad that our former friends were double dealing us, and treating us as unpaid servants.

[Aiken]

1. About 50 years ago when Eysk was one of the weakest empires, leaders of the small nations (Eysk, Arteria and Vorlon) decided to form Lesser Union in order to protect each other and work together to achive economical and military success. We asked Thermolian Expanse to join us and be our leader. They refused, they told us that trade is the only kind of relations they want. I have no right to condemn their decision. But now we have opposite situation.

2. During Great Wars against Electrum and Dei-O, Eysk and Cyber Collective fought together hand by hand. Cybers are not most pleasant beings in the known universe, some of their actions are outrageous, but they never backstabbed us, so we won't do it too.

3. Cybersol started a dirty war. Where was no public war declaration. Cybersol draw in Citizen Federation to this war, although it was a conflict between 2 empires only. Previous demands of Cyber Collective are scandalous, and I think that the real reason of this war is greed.

We can't decide which side to choose, so we will stay neutral. Please don't use our systems for military routes and don't open warps into our space.

Eysk promised to not make any hostility against galactic races, but since all the treaties are broken and laws are crushed, I'm, Admiral Shekk, proud to declare Big Hunt for Wendigo Pride. Treat this as war declaration if you want.

[TerranC]

We of the Wendigo are saddened to hear of the news of late, news of shattered alliances and news of newlymade threats of war, but we must say that we are not surprised, and have been expecting such a cataclysm, seeing how the childish yet dangerous colonial ambitions of the Citizen Federation and the desperate need to be vindicated for innumerable losses of the Cyber Collective coupled with naivete of the RCC and their hopes of a galactic order with them being at its forefront, and their happy-go-lucky allies of once grand, once proud Thermolia, add the ambitions of the smaller races were bound to collide.

We of the Wendigo had hoped that our disengagement from the council with our ill-found gains and whatnot would actually save it from such a fate, and had hoped that other smaller races would also disengage, creating a non-aligned movement; but after returning from a deep slumber, we see that we could have been the catalyst for this pandemonium. Nevertheless, we shall stick by our decision made in the yesterwake, albeit with a slight change; we now renounce our former territorial revendications and consider all our previous attempts at brinksmanship void. I, on behalf of my pride, would also express my sincerest apologies to the RCC and particularily to His Majesty King Bio, for the covert actions undertaken against your empire by the awakened, who were supposed safeguard the Voyagers of the Dreams, instead of trying to carve out a small piece of the galaxy for themselves.

As a show of my regrets, we shall give your empire some of Electrum's ships garnered in the surrender, as much as we can spare, as soon as we get the chance.

But as all things turn in our little corner of the universe, we wish to reestablish our diplomatic links at their zenith before this sorrowful try at treason came to pass.

We shall await your responce.

And as for you dear marshall; it is true, I shall forfeit; my actions were of cowardice, one could say. But they were more of concern for the well being of my people, as you would have done, you also must concede to that. My people would have fought to the death, as I have repeatedly said, if that is what needs to be done; but a valiant warrior is valiant when he fights a fair battle and wins; only fools expect to fight against insurmountable odds and expect to survive.

I hope my answer finds itself well within you, but before I end with my volition of words, I have this to say; I would watch my vocabulary wisely, lest you find yourself a mockery of the galaxy.

And as for you, my dear admiral, the pride shall very much enjoying releasing your pitiful souls unto the unknown. I look forward to meeting your hunters, for they are now the hunted.

OoC: I'm back after three weeks of inactivity... sorry it took so long; there were some issues concerning my cable internet service, so I had to switch to sympatico, a DSL service, which took almost one week of waiting. Boy, it's good to be back into all this roleplaying I tell you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Wardad]

A prelude to war, after Alarik (RCC) sugested he would gift his systems to Thermodyne.:

Alarik,

This gives me serious heartburn.
I rescued both of you from a war Thermolia started.
I recieved nothing for it. You recieved all of Dei-Os territory.

Give Thermolia your native systems.
Give Cyber, Eysk, and Trooper the Dei-O systems.

I will not tolerate Thermolia recieving such resources.
Not after this message from them:
Message from the Thermolian Expanse:
"We offer this gift with the hope that you will bend over and grab them ankles."

------------------

RCC rushed the gifting of systems, causing a rush to war on the Cybers part. The Cybers stand by the statement "I will not tolerate Thermolia recieving such resources." as a declaration of a war condition.

[Wardad]

blah blah blah....
u talk too much

[Chris Blagdon]

Greetings apologies for being ... err .. late. The Artarian diplomatic core have been observing these discussions for some time. Owing to the length of time it takes to traverse the Galaxy in our woefully outdated ships I'm afraid our ambassador has only just arrived.

King Maximal ll sends everyone his best wishes. And also let it be known that he has dispatched a fleet to Thermolian territory to act as a potential peace keeping force. I know, I know the wars just started. But it will take them such a long time to get there one side or another will be sueing for peace by then.
I ask that all empires allow this fleet free passage.

Dont worry about us being unable to contact our fleet we have just installed a marvellous new device that we're calling a telephone. We also proudly announce that we are researching into a brand new device called a radiophone. Which will cancel the need for spooling all that cable out behind the ships.
We will be taking orders for both these exciting new technologies at our council embassy.
Yours truly Ambassaor Tosh.

[Thermodyne]

IC: “Thermolia fails to see any reason for war in your statement except for the greed of your government. At the time you were making your demands, Thermolia had no war bootie to offer to anyone. And we had only just become aware of the merger; there were no talks on this point. The offer was made as a take it of leave it proposition. Your attacks, and the transfer of assets, took place on the same cycle. So we feel that it is safe to say that you have mis-spoken and that your facts are not in order. Or, that you are disrespecting the gathered members of this council by trying to pass this lie off as truth.

As to the offer of a gift, this is true. Thermolia made a substantial gift of resources to your people. We did this without being asked and in return we were attacked. We even included the act of respect in the wording of the gift. We have observed your citizens making this act of respect many times. When high officials pass by, your people drop their lower garments and bend over, offering their bare hind quarters in respect. We thought that you would be pleased.

We Thermolian’s see through your fabrications. We see you for what you really are. And we now take this opportunity to again warn the free peoples of the galaxy that your only goal is total domination. Your weak justification for this war does not begin to hide your true ambitions.”

With that said, the Thermolian Ambassador stepped back and spit on the floor, and made one Last comment to the distinguished gentleman gathered. “We Thermolians are eternal. It matters not what happens in this life, for there will be another. While we are this day in a fight that we can not at this time win, we will not back down. What ever happens, Thermolian honor will remain untarnished. But you sir, you and your Overmind, have demonstrated that you have no honor. You have shown all gathered here in this place, that honor is not something with which you are acquainted.” With that said, the Thermolian turned, made the customary Cyber display of respect (also known as the moon), then turned and gave the Thermolian sign for disrespect, then left the room.

[ July 23, 2004, 12:04: Message edited by: Thermodyne ]

[Wardad]

OOC:
This whole Empire Gift affair is an example of poor playmanship.

Some hosts say that surrender should go to the empire that does the most damage. Other hosts don't allow surrender and require turning the empire over to the AI. Still there are others that allow surrender. It is a matter of the house rules, and this game had no surrender rules.

BUT... The wholesale gifting of a major and playable empire is simply over the top. Especially when a large part of that empire was taken in surrender, due to a coalition action.
And especially when the gift giver is the host, and tired of the game.
Why could he not do the normal thing, turn it over to the AI and find a replacement player?


IC:
The Thermolian Empire will be punished for accepting the gift. RCC will be punished by having their former empire torn apart.
Standby and continue in peace.
Join the effort and share the spoils.

[AMF]

Do we really want to get into this again? I'm gonna try and limit my comments right now since I'm in a foul mood and might say something I'd regret. Suffice it to say that I stand by my reasoning, which, by the way, I stated clearly, multiple times, and publicly. Your continued accusations run the chance of spoiling the game overall and have other overtones as well.

Perhaps I made the wrong choice. I already apologized. But I made the choice based on the idea that I did not want to upset the geopolitical/strategic or roleplaying aspects of the game by my leaving. Merging the number two empire with the Last (or nearly Last) place empire who was an ally from the earliest turns of the game and was interspersed with mine seemed a clear way to do it. The result was an unchanged geopolitical situation that was in tune with historical and roleplaying considerations.

The decision to "upset the game" was not made by me, but, instead, by those powers who apparently immediately attacked what my former empire. Oh, and did I mention that those powers are the ost powerful in the game (numbers one and three and on down, IIRC). No problem with such an attack, but to then go on and complain that the entire situation was "unfair" seems more than a bit like sour grapes, no?

Frankly, I was not "tired" of the game, I quite enjoyed the 101 game. As I mentioned many times I NEEDED to quit. Over the past month I have gotten out of 4 of my ten games for the exact same reasons.

Ok, just to go on, cause I'm getting worked up here, since you brought up the host bit, I was not the original host of the game. If you'll remember, the game had effectively died when the former host up and bailed. I took over the reins to keep it going. I have NO idea why the fact that I am host of the game matters one whit for this issue, but you brought it up.

More: you didn;t seem to have a problem with the Dei-O surrendering to the RCC earlier? So, the discussion of "surrender shouldn't be allowed anyways" is a bit disengenous.

The heck with it, I'll keep going, why stop now?

You further intimated that I ceded the RCC to Thermolia becuase perhaps I knew him in real life. At the time I was too p*ssed off to really respond but I can do so now. I do NOT know this thermolian character. I have NEVER cheated in a game (which is what you're implying) - EVER - and the intimation that I have is, frankly, reprehensible. Of course, I have no way of proving that, but neither do I feel a need to (I've already laid out my reasoning for what I did many times, and I stand by it - while admitting that I might have done it better)

In fact, let me apologize again for the manner in which I made the decision and the way in which I implemented it. Clearly I could have done those parts better. But, neither will I repudiate what I did becuase I think it was in keeping with the strategic, geogrpahical, historical, and roleplaying aspects of the game. I did not want to quit the game, and in retrospect, I should have let the AI or another player take it over. Had I done so, I'm pretty convinced that RCC would have still been attacked by Cyber et al, but whatever.

So, go ahead and yell "poor playmanship" if you feel you must, but I think it's pretty clearly sour grapes and not based on an objective assessment of my reasoning. Yes, I should have let the AI take over and for that I apologize. But just the same, I am pretty insulted by the accusation.

Toodle-oo.

EDIT: I should probabably have posted that in a private message, my apologies for cluttering up the forum for everyone else. BUT, I wanted to giver everyone the option to spout off about my actions if they felt like it. If I well and truly did p*ss everyone off, I'd prefer to hear about it not so I can avoid it in the future.


Originally posted by Wardad:
OOC:
This whole Empire Gift affair is an example of poor playmanship.

Some hosts say that surrender should go to the empire that does the most damage. Other hosts don't allow surrender and require turning the empire over to the AI. Still there are others that allow surrender. It is a matter of the house rules, and this game had no surrender rules.

BUT... The wholesale gifting of a major and playable empire is simply over the top. Especially when a large part of that empire was taken in surrender, due to a coalition action.
And especially when the gift giver is the host, and tired of the game.
Why could he not do the normal thing, turn it over to the AI and find a replacement player?


IC:
The Thermolian Empire will be punished for accepting the gift. RCC will be punished by having their former empire torn apart.
Standby and continue in peace.
Join the effort and share the spoils. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ July 27, 2004, 17:50: Message edited by: alarikf ]

[Chris Blagdon]

I think this Councils been a fantastic bit of role play. This is similar to how medi evil kings were. In thos days, as in the game, possesion is nine tenths of the law. Very often if you wanted rid of a noble you granted huge tracts of land to them the sit back and watch the envy of other nobles go to work in the ensuing bunfight.

There are more ways than just combat to win a game. The territory gift to themolians may well prove to be another Version of the trojan horse. This gift has altered the play balance but so the did the japanese when they bombed pearl harbour. It brought the Americans in to the war and so tipped the scales. This is life my friends. And we can always have a good punch up to solve any disagreements :-)))))

I'm really enjoying this game it has had sooo many twists and turns.
Thankyou everyone.

Meanwhile back at HQ.........

[AMF]

Tis the old theorem in international relations about dealing with capabilities versus intentions.

Much of realpolitik is based upon preparations to go to war against those powers who are most capable, rather than only against those who are your enemies.

Intentions can change overnight, capabilities change slowly.

Hence, the world can change suddenly in times of revolution. Look at the shock the European allies recevied when suddenly the Russians underwent a bolshevik revolution in 1917. Overnight, the relatively great capabilities of the Russians went from being a friend to being a foe.

There are many examples of this in human history...


Originally posted by Chris Blagdon:
I think this Councils been a fantastic bit of role play. This is similar to how medi evil kings were. In thos days, as in the game, possesion is nine tenths of the law. Very often if you wanted rid of a noble you granted huge tracts of land to them the sit back and watch the envy of other nobles go to work in the ensuing bunfight.

There are more ways than just combat to win a game. The territory gift to themolians may well prove to be another Version of the trojan horse. This gift has altered the play balance but so the did the japanese when they bombed pearl harbour. It brought the Americans in to the war and so tipped the scales. This is life my friends. And we can always have a good punch up to solve any disagreements :-)))))

I'm really enjoying this game it has had sooo many twists and turns.
Thankyou everyone.

Meanwhile back at HQ......... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[trooper]

Oficial communication of the leader of the Citizen Federation :

We, of the Citizen Fed have full respect for our long Lasting ally, the Cyber Collective, who helped us to free the galaxy of the Dei/Electrum axis of evil.

That's why we have decided to support them with all our military forces, and asked to all our allies to do so, unless they want to stay neutral in this affair.

Moreover, we have always been wary of fanatic religious undeads, and we strongly believe that so much power into such odd people's hands is a danger for the galaxy. RCC, who were good friends until now has proven to be very unwise and will assume the consequences of their decision to put their great empire into these hands.

Sky Marechal Brunwick
Citizen Federation

--- End of communication ---

[trooper]

Oficial communication of the leader of the Citizen Federation :

With the surrender of Thermolian empire, a new era has risen for the Citizen federation.

First, I will not be ungrateful and I'll give several systems to those who helped us in this war and other previous events.

Due to an extremely violent civil disorders and uncontrolled RCC ships rampaging in our new systems, the martial law has been declared in the whole federation. That's why I ask all the empire leaders to keep their vessel away from my systems, unless they have a planet in the vicinity.

Sky Marechal Brunwick
Citizen Federation

[Thermodyne]

IC: So that the numerous races that make up Thermolia may be spared the pain and agony of another conflict, the Thermolian leadership has this day surrendered our forces and cedes jurisdiction of our holdings. We have ordered all Fleet and Marine units to stand down and make themselves available to the new government. We lament that elements among our people have taken issue with this decision. There are reports that some fleet units scuttled their commands rather than surrender and we have reports that there have been many acts of sabotage against industrial amenities. There are also reports that the priests have packed up the bulk of our religious icons and set off for an unknown location somewhere in deep space. Denying the people the benefit of these shrines during this period of instability.

OOC: No need to put off the inevitable. Against one, I could have made the cost of victory high. Against two, it would have been a long tortuous string of defeats. As to who got the leavings, the first one to declare war was given the bootie. Now the rest of you guys will have to reappraise your situations.

[AMF]

Allllrriighty then. So, is Thermolia *dead* or *open for a player*?

I'd like to mark them dead if they're dead, obviously, so I don't get someone joining up as them (like that poor guy who joined up as the Dog Warriors, who were apparently dead as doornails...)

thanks,
Alarik

[trooper]

Definitively dead. Snig.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by alarikf:
Allllrriighty then. So, is Thermolia *dead* or *open for a player*?

I'd like to mark them dead if they're dead, obviously, so I don't get someone joining up as them (like that poor guy who joined up as the Dog Warriors, who were apparently dead as doornails...)

thanks,
Alarik <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's dead, wipe it out.

[Chris Blagdon]

King Maximal formaly proposes that the Citizen Empire has won this game and is the new overlord of this Galaxy. If any-one disputes this let them come forward.

None of us can stand against his might.

If everyone accepts this then we can, for fun, see how long we can Last if we all went against him. But first we have to acknowledge Citizens victory.

King Maximal ll

[AMF]

Hi all,

I'm gonna be out of town this weekend, so that means you have a bit of time to figure out amongst yerselves, and then tell me, what you want to do.

Originally posted by Chris Blagdon:
King Maximal formaly proposes that the Citizen Empire has won this game and is the new overlord of this Galaxy. If any-one disputes this let them come forward.

None of us can stand against his might.

If everyone accepts this then we can, for fun, see how long we can Last if we all went against him. But first we have to acknowledge Citizens victory.

King Maximal ll <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[trooper]

play the turn before you leave plz, swarms seems to be out of town for a long time

[trooper]

Originally posted by Chris Blagdon:
&lt;strong&gt; King Maximal formaly proposes that the Citizen Empire has won this game and is the new overlord of this Galaxy. If any-one disputes this let them come forward.




There still a war in the galaxy. So the victory conditions are not fulfilled.



None of us can stand against his might.




Maybe. but an alliance could do so.



If everyone accepts this then we can, for fun, see how long we can Last if we all went against him.



Hummm... not that fun. My empire is too big, and I would be unable to defend against attacks coming from everywhere.