Supply question

[Imperial]

Hiyas,

I am trying to understand how the supply relationships work in SE_IV. Lets say I have a ship that has 500 supply points currently and 4 weapons that each use 10 supply (total of 40) How does this relate if I start a combat session?-- each time the ship fires a weapon it will lose 10 points? I am trying to determine if a ship can run out of supply during a combat sesion (before the combat ends) also if a shield uses supply and I have no more supply-- is this simulated during combat?

[Slynky]

I never worry about it. Why? 'Cause battle needs always overcome worries about supplies. I worry about movement supplies, though. I think, though I'm not sure, ships always fire in combat...at least I don't recall being in a battle and all the sudden my ships quit firing.

For a real answer to your question, I'll bow to the pros.

[Fyron]

When a ship has 0 supplies, it can not fire its weapons. I do not recall what happens with shields.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
When a ship has 0 supplies, it can not fire its weapons. I do not recall what happens with shields. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So, Fyron, not to disparage you, have you ever been in a battle and your ships refused to fire? Certainly, I've been in battles where my fleet looks to be without supplies (happens when I leave them at a hole on defense) but they all seem to fire.

What I'm asking is this: IF you've ever seen such a thing, I've not. Mostly, what I have seen is ships moving on the tactical screen at one sector per combat round...yet, they continue to fire. Is this a glitch?

[Fyron]

If this is not the case, it is a bug. From History.txt:

Version 1.65:
6. Changed - Fighters with zero supplies only get one movement per turn.
7. Changed - Ships and fighters with zero supplies get zero shields.
8. Changed - Ships and fighters with zero supplies will not be able to fire
any of their weapons.

[ July 02, 2004, 02:18: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Imperial]

Thanks for the info)-- The reason i was asking is because i did have a ship with no supplies enter combat and it could not fire its weapons. Also--I wanted to know because it would be interesting to be able to mod supply usage in relation to weapons/shields. I think it would be cool for ships to be dependant on supply to fire its weapons/ use its shields -- gives the game a more real feeling, and definetely something to worry about other than movement. Imagine if you had a ship with a 500 supply container and it was destroyed(assuming the engines did not generate supply)- your in trouble--heh

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
If this is not the case, it is a bug. From History.txt:

Version 1.65:
6. Changed - Fighters with zero supplies only get one movement per turn.
7. Changed - Ships and fighters with zero supplies get zero shields.
8. Changed - Ships and fighters with zero supplies will not be able to fire
any of their weapons. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, this seems to have settled the problem but has anyone ever seen this apply in tactical battle? I swear I have seen my ships unable to move more than one sector in battle yet fire. Perhaps I haven't paid close enough attention.

[Fyron]

I have seen plenty of examples in strategic combat of knocking out all engines with an Ionic Disperser, and the ships were then unable to fire (they had no supply bays). Haven't dont tactical combat in a very long time, however.

[Arkcon]

I have seen ships run out of suppies in mid-combat, 'tho it is rare. A baseship, with 2 engines, no supply storage (and no quantum reactor, natch), and lots of missile components, sent to bombard a full homeworld, will run out of supplies in stategic combat, and run away before then end.

Imperial, like Slynky says, it's more likely the ship will run out of supplies in transit than mid-combat. Theory goes, if a ship runs out of supplies mid-combat, shields raised at the start of combat will stay up, but shield regen components won't work. But really, by then, shields have been shot away mostly, so no one really stresses the supply loss.

'Course, if you start combat in the red, then no shields, no weapons, ship runs away 1 square at a time, etc.

[ July 02, 2004, 03:35: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[Slynky]

Actually, for me, anyway, it's hard to tell. If ships are moving only one sector during combat ('cause of supplies), it would seem to follow that they (also) don't have enough supplies to fire. But, unless I haven't paid close enough attention (quite possible), they never seem to be unable to fire.

[Fyron]

Run a test using some Ionic Dispersers. No supply storage on the enemy ship, just the engines (and weapons! But skip shields to make it easier to test...). See what happens.

In 1.76 (IIRC), Ionic Dispersers were really deadly. This was after loss of supplies meant no weapons could fire, and before Ionic Dispersers were made to be unable to ignore shielding. All it took was one shot from a heavy ID or two from a large ID to totally disable a ship. Unless, of course, they had a supply storage component on them. Then they could still fire, just not move. This is why it is generally always a good idea to put a supply storage component on all ships of size LC and larger. Nowadays, you have to take out the shields first, which is fairly easy with Shield Depleters.

[ July 02, 2004, 04:35: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[capnq]

ISTR that weapons which don't use supplies can still fire. Don't know offhand which weapons those are.

[Suicide Junkie]

Point Defenses, mainly... I can't recall any others.

[Aiken]

So the tangential question: if all engines are destroyed and ship doesn't have a supply storage it means that quantum reactor won't help this ship at all (because of 0/0 supply status)?
If it's true, then it's a VERY good idea to put some storages on the ship.

[ July 02, 2004, 22:47: Message edited by: aiken ]

[Abdiel]

Hmmm I can't remember that one. i think it'll be completely disabled, yeah.

has anyone thought of modding weapons to carry some supplies? After all, which ship really stores its nuclear bombs in their engines?!

not to mention the water-bucket chain this would necessitate, heh.

Abd.

[Suicide Junkie]

A quantum reactor give the ship unlimited supplies, just like a base.

Until the reactor is destroyed, you always have infinite supply remaining.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Abdiel:
Hmmm I can't remember that one. i think it'll be completely disabled, yeah.

has anyone thought of modding weapons to carry some supplies? After all, which ship really stores its nuclear bombs in their engines?!

not to mention the water-bucket chain this would necessitate, heh.

Abd. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Adamant Mod has engines separated into two separate components, the Engine that provide movement and the Reactor that provides supplies. Losing all engines only means the ship can not move, not that it can not fire its weapons.