Defense: sats and stations

[stoicFaux]

Total newbie here. Just started playing SEIV .99 demo and have a few questions.

I ran a few satellites and space stations in the simulator and the defending planet got creamed. (We're talking CSM level 2.)

The placement of satellites and space stations seems totally inadequate for planetary protection. Either I'm missing something or I'd better use ships and weapon platforms for defense.

I was hoping that sats and stations would be a nice, cheap, and quick means of putting up a defense around a planet w/o having to shuffle and pay maintenance on a fleet of ships.

And where can I get more info on the game? The tutorial was short, and there are no doc files. :-(

[Taqwus]

If you must defend a planet... hrm.

Your options are something like the following, all with good / bad points.

- Ships. Extremely expensive (maintenance is something like 20% base cost per turn, IIRC). But mobile and you may be able to engage attackers far enough away so they don't hit the planet itself.

- Bases. A large, immobile ship variant. Expensive (again, 20% IIRC), and randomly placed, so with only one unless you have a range advantage the attacker can hit the planet from the other side. Benefit can be that it's hard to kill (shields now regenerate fully between battles on the same turn), and can have Massive weapons, but again, you need numbers... which gets expensive.

- Weapon platforms. Big (even the small ones are 200kt, and they don't need engines, life support, etc), but immobile. So you need a mix of something like point defense (to shoot down incoming missiles, as the planet cannot run away...), missiles and good beam weapons (for the enemies who bring enough PD to shoot down your missiles, or are fast enough to simply dodge them). They might be able to chew up many bomber and troop transport designs, however, so at least you might be able to avoid those.

Plus, attacks on the planet itself must destroy all WPs until any damage is suffered to the pop, it looks like.

- Satellites.
Immobile. Weak. Cannot be shot by CSMs, but that appears to be a bug judging from the CSM description. Cheap, 'tho, and they can be stationed at warp points...

- Mines.
Might actually be possible -- mine your own planet, since IIRC you may be able to move through your *own* minefields freely, and they're pretty nasty.


On the whole, 'tho, they translate either to not-terribly-effective, or very very expensive. You're much better off having an active defense with fleets ready to intercept near warp points -- heavily mining a warp point, backed up with satellites or perhaps even a battlestation, can be VERY nasty. The mines appear to silently vaporize fleets (I've lost a fleet of 10 well-armored LCs without so much as a dialogue box or log entry...), and any attacker who survives the mines will be at point-blank for the satellites/bases/ships.

Until your opponents get Stellar Manipulation tech and start creating warp points, the key seems to be to not let them into your systems, rather than have to defend a planet; and have WPs if you're concerned about raids (but note that, unless there are a lot, the odds still favor a fleet...). At least the demo tech isn't as drastic as in MOO2 (an expensive planet-killer could use Subspace Teleport, if not Phase Cloak / [pref. Phase] Cloak / Transporter / Augmented Engines, if not Phase Cloak / Battle Pods / a LOT of Neutronium Bombs. It'd be fast enough to close, and the transporter means that even a surround-the-planet-with-ships approach won't block all the spaces from which the PKer can bomb the planet into oblivion in one attack.) If you can block the warp points, you're mostly <LI> safe. Along the same lines, use this idea to help guide which systems to colonize...


<LI> Not against a Darlok-type race. Their reach transcends all boundaries, muhahahahahahaha. Watch as your OWN ships bombard your planets... &gt;;-)

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[Psitticine]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taqwus:
- Satellites.
Immobile. Weak. Cannot be shot by CSMs, but that appears to be a bug judging from the CSM description. Cheap, 'tho, and they can be stationed at warp points...

- Mines.
Might actually be possible -- mine your own planet, since IIRC you may be able to move through your *own* minefields freely, and they're pretty nasty.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, it's possible to mine your own planets. You can also launch undeployed mines, satellites, and fighters after combat actually begins, although the usefulness of mines in tactical combat is seriously questionable.

Mines work great if you've deployed them in advance though and, I agree, putting them at the incoming warp points is almost always a better defense than trying to cover every planet.

Besides, which is more deadly? 50 mines at one warp point or 10 each orbitting 5 separate planets?

Enemy fall down! Go BOOM!

One thing that may make satellites more deadly is to launch them during tactical combat in Groups. It spreads them out, helping to cover the "blind side", and makes them less vulnerable now that ships require multiplex tracking to attack more than one enemy per turn.

[Comar]

Defending the jump points are definately the way to hold a system. If you need help with the concept ( and possible counters ) read the Weber series on Honor Harrington.

This is a classic choke point defense and mines, satellites, warships and anything else you can drag in can make life miserable for someone jumping in. Even with Dreadnoughts and base ships, mines can wreak havoc. And the more mines, the more havoc.

[llreye]

I think Weber's Starfire books are better examples than the HH series. I think HH is more about placement and movement.
-MKC

[Noble713]

There are very few wormholes in HH, but I'll agree that the Starfire novels are excellent examples of proper warp point defense. The attacking fleet is worse off in Starfire though, as ships have to transit the warp point one at a time. It would be like having only one ship come through the warp point each turn in tactical combat.


Anyways, here is a basic Interstellar War 4 warp point defense in order of decreasing distance from the warp point:

Mines- placed close to warp point and make a big mess.

Satellites - Usually armed with energy weapons that ignore shields AND armor, these tear up the big ships by ignoring their formidable defenses.

Combat Space Patrol - Fighters or gunboats (depending on the species) that patrol near the warp point. Used for fighter and small ship interception or smashing the leading ships.

Defense Bases - The bulk of a warp point defense's firepower, these can really put a hurt on a fleet and can take quite a pounding.

Attack Ships - The other heavy element in a WP defense, ships have the advantage of being able to run if things go bad...

Carrier Bases - Bases for the CSP fighters, as well as a second larger wave launched when the shooting starts.

Carriers - They do basically the same thing as the carrier bases.


On a side note, does anyone know if drones are working yet? I was just thinking about SBMHAWK pods...

[Taqwus]

Incidentally, the Mine minister is pretty decent at mining a sane set of warp points; in a max-tech game where I had a number of small colonies crank out 'Holy Hand Grenade' mines (2x300-pt warheads) while waiting for atmospheres to be converted, and a few minister-controlled minelayer CAs, it actually chose warp points on my borders, and didn't bother mining warp points deeper within my space.

Although it might be a bit paranoid/defensive (e.g. laying 99 mines at one war point, and 80+ at another. 99 mines is an awful lot when the AI sides are already on the defensive and each does 600 pts...) when it could have started mining further away (for more of an advance warning against possible probing attacks). But the AI was not reaching my core systems...


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-- The thing that goes bump in the night