Manual disappointment

[LintMan]

I just got to check out the html manual, and I'm pretty disappointed, unfortunately. :-(

I'm not talking about it being hard to get a hard copy from the HTML Version... I'm bummed about the manual's contents.

Basically, the html manual contains high-level descriptions of the major aspects, and a blurb about all the various windows, but unless I'm missing something, it seems completely lacking in technical details. There seems to be little information in the manual that wasn't already in the in-game help.

I mean things like
- how are a planets # of facilities and cargo space calculated?
- how are to-hit %s calculated in tactical combat?
- Are the effects of multiple facilites of a given type cumulative? (ie: recplication centers)
- The .bmp images in the manual do not display correctly using Netscape. (I can see them fine using Explorer).
- What kinds of events can happen? Are they all bad?
- How exactly are the assorted racial bonuses you can spend racial poins on applied?
- And the biggest missing things: the technology tree and list of facilities and components. I had hoped the manual would show the tree and give detailed specs/info on all the facilities and components.

I can find some of this info out from digging through the text files, but that's a pain in the butt.

[Malfador Machinations]

There are thousands of particular questions that no ordinary manual can cover. We were intending to post all of these to our web site as people send them in.

We wil be adding a technical details site to the web page to address your questions.

Aaron

[Richard]

That's the bad part about having a game this wide open, no manual could have realistically handled all of the data that needed to be represented.

But the html manual that was supplied though I think comes close http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

[thedalus]

>What kinds of events can happen? Are they all bad?

Bwa,nooo, only the type that makes your home-system sun go supernova in 30 turns http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Kinde bummer when it is the only system you got http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Richard Link]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:
That's the bad part about having a game this wide open, no manual could have realistically handled all of the data that needed to be represented.

But the html manual that was supplied though I think comes close http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That`s a strange position Richard, the Games too complex and deep for a Manual so you don`t need one...

I don`t think the HTML Help file, for that`s what it is, even comes close.

Are we to take you post to mean there is _no_ intention on your part or Malifador to provide a PDF printable Manual to this Game ?

BTW: SE III seems to have needed, and players benifited from, and Malifador provided,a full 300+ page PDF format printedable manual.

This is a major issue IMO.

[Ferendra]

Me too, me too

I guess there are a lot of players who
would like to know how things are calculated.
And furhtermore, more and more question will
pop up in our minds, the longer we play.

Shouldn´t we somehow collect the most important ones here ?

Greetings
Ferendra

[Richard]

No my point is that the currenty html file is just as long as you specify for SE3. The problem is even with that extensive of a manual it still does not hit everything possible.

I think basic gameplay info (IE enough to get you into the game) should always be in a printed manual (which I think we covered) and the more expansive topics should be in the html help files we setup.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

[Resident Alien]

I think people are being a bit harsh with their criticism of the html manual.

To me it looks top class for the player who hasn't been playing SE3 for years and hasn't been playing the demo for months.

What we need is a technical appendix, or expert player guide, which goes into the subtle points, setups and strategies of the game.

I expect that the player communitity will soon start putting this together accross the various web sites out there. To expect this in the game manual is asking for more than is likely to be delivered in any commercial game.

Just my 2c worth.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:
No my point is that the currenty html file is just as long as you specify for SE3. The problem is even with that extensive of a manual it still does not hit everything possible.

I think basic gameplay info (IE enough to get you into the game) should always be in a printed manual (which I think we covered) and the more expansive topics should be in the html help files we setup.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[JimBones]

I was expecting a full manual--I don't mind printing it out as we did for SEIII--but this is a disappointment. And yes, I saw the Posts about piracy but once again paying customers are hurt so supposed pirates are thwarted. In my youth I pirated a few games but never really played them and certainly never considered buying them. I got'em to take a look. I now own hundreds of original games in boxes.

[Psitticine]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resident Alien:
I think people are being a bit harsh with their criticism of the html manual.

To me it looks top class for the player who hasn't been playing SE3 for years and hasn't been playing the demo for months.

What we need is a technical appendix, or expert player guide, which goes into the subtle points, setups and strategies of the game.

I expect that the player communitity will soon start putting this together accross the various web sites out there. To expect this in the game manual is asking for more than is likely to be delivered in any commercial game.

Just my 2c worth.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well put! I just want to pipe in and say I feel the same way. I could do with some more "under the hood" info, but have I spared any playtime to really worry about the manual?

Nope. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I've looked up a few things in the HTML manual, found my answers, and that was that. Expansion and more detail is always nice, and I also vote for idea to add an ingame access feature for it, but otherwise, put me down as cool with it.

[Tim Brooks]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I was expecting a full manual--I don't mind printing it out as we did for SEIII--but this is a disappointment. And yes, I saw the Posts about piracy but once again paying customers are hurt so supposed pirates are thwarted. In my youth I pirated a few games but never really played them and certainly never considered buying them. I got'em to take a look. I now own hundreds of original games in boxes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Guys:

Just so you understand our position. Yes, piracy is one of the issues here and it is an important one. You have to understand the amount of money invested in just the parts to the game. The Last thing any publisher can afford (especially a small publisher) is wholesale piracy as it deletes the investment monies, making it less likely that the game would be supported in future Versions. Remember that investors look at the return on their dollars. If less than they could make in, say, mutual funds, hey then why take the risk. It is all about limiting risk. And the more you set yourself up for ease of piracy, the more it will be pirated. This isn't a great answer for the gamer, I know, as I am one myself, but it is the reality.

But to me is an even more important point. That being the other markets. This is a game that, at some future point, deserves the retail chain, especially in foreign countries where shipping costs can really limit your internet market. If we were to release the manual in other formats, the chance of the larger retailers picking it up would go way down. The more you "deplete" the product like this the less interested the stores are in the product. And for the same reasons - they have to get a certain return on their investment in the product and if they see it being depleted through piracy, they won't take it.

The honest gamer gets hurt by this, I know, and I am sorry for that. We could print a manual and offer it at cost to those who really want it, but we have our doubts as to how many would really pay for this (thus the reason why we didn't include it to begin with - the extra cost involved in printing an almost 400 page manual - plus the issue of the depleted graphics you get in printing 72dpi images).

This is the way we came up with to give the gamer the quality graphics, and the information they need. In so choosing this method, we are minimizing the cost to you, the consumer, maximizing the ROI of the investors and maximizing the amount of money Malfador can make, thus allowing many more Versions to come in the future.



------------------
Tim Brooks
Shrapnel Games

[C4]

IMO the manuals are too superficial. The printed manual is of very little value. The html manual only covers the basic basics. Combined with a tutorial that stops before game action really gets started and SEIV becomes a lot more difficult to learn than it needs to be.

Sure, I can move ships around and blunder through ship combat. But, ask me what to do anything more than that (like what technologies to research) and I'm lost in SEIV.

[Urendi Maleldil]

You could offer a strategy guide later on that would contain more advanced stuff.

[JimBones]

The situation forced me to use alt-tab to access the HTML manual and I have to admit that this works pretty well.

[aweill]

Where is the manual on the CD? My CD only lists the setup, readme, icon, autorun files, and the demo folder. Am I missing something obvious here?

[LintMan]

The manual is packed inside the setup executable and is installed at the same time the game is installed.

When the game is installed, it puts an icon in the start menu for the manual. Or you can just point your web browser to the manual directory under the SEIV directory. (The manual doesn't work quite right in Netscape, so use Explorer).