Jotunheim:Utgard AAR [Archive] - Page 2

Arryn

March 2nd, 2004, 04:36 PM

<center>Turn #35, Late Winter of Year 3
A breath of fresh air.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I recruit Seithkonas in Jotunheim, Pythium, and Ashikaga. Another "red" Wizard is recruited in the Black Alps, while another Garnet Priestess is recruited at the Well. I also recruit a Priest in the Rim Mountains, and Scouts in Eribon, Ancyrna, and the Promised Land. New temples are to be built in Bel and the Iron Range. These preparations drain the treasury of 1020 coins.

The Wizard Lekiro begins the ritual Awaken Ivy King, consuming 20 nature gems. The Norna Lit begins the ritual to Revive Bane Lord, which expends all 10 death gems in the treasury. The Skratti Tunne forges another Clam of Pearls, at a cost of 10 water gems. The Enchantress Pladina uses alchemy to convert 4 astral pearls into 2 earth gems, then begins forging a Dwarven Hammer, using all 20 earth gems now in the treasury.

Rod the Firbolg, leading my army's vanguard of 21 healthy Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with 4 priests carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards, move from Barra to join my avatar at Man.

My wyrm Jorgun, alone, maintains the seige of the capital of Man for a third month, secure in the knowledge of his supremacy, and that he will soon have the company of a legion of veteran Jotuns.

The ominous, and unexpected, massing of Ulmish forces on my northern border causes a change of plans for my main army and its logistical support. Bove, commanding the rest of my Jotun army, along with Grymis and two priests alter course and move from The Promised Land to Melma. From Melma, they will be positioned to either retake Herghendorf, should Ulm attack, or to head westwards to Man via Van-held mountains and wastelands. Stark, with a half-dozen green Jotuns, moves from Hoburgdorf to rendezvous in Melma with the main army. Tahmar heads back to Pythium.

My five other priests congregating in Barra remain there preaching.

Turn #35 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-35a.jpg) (1280x1024)

[ March 03, 2004, 12:35: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 2nd, 2004, 04:49 PM

The start of Turn #36 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-36.jpg) (1280x1024)

I have reduced the GUI opacity from the default 85% to 50% so that more of the map can be seen without having to shrink things even smaller.

Kelan

March 2nd, 2004, 05:19 PM

I would also like to comment on how much your AAR has helped me learn the game. While reading this AAR and CharonJR's about Ryleh it has given me enough knowledge to play my first full game and I am actually winning, albeit vs. Easy AI.

I have started a new game Last night on Aran with 7 other Normal AIs and am taking down enough notes to write an AAR later if I get the time. I just picked up the game 2 weeks ago and this will be my 2nd full game, so an AAR may shed some light on common mistakes new players can make.

I would also like to add that the walkthru, guides, and references that people here have made have been a huge help. Thanks to all that have put in all of the hard work to make the game more enjoyable for us all. I am just glad that I stumbled upon this great game.

Arryn

March 2nd, 2004, 05:30 PM

Kelan,

Thanks! Charon's AAR is on my other favorite race. But he's sensible enough to play on a small map. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I picked a large map so that the game wouldn't be over before I got to use the most powerful spells. The Last time I played Jotuns on Aran the game was pretty much over (except for mopping up) by turn 40-50. (I define "over" as being stronger than all the AIs combined.) A large map allows them to grow a bit before a human begins to kick their butts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

On behalf of the rest of the people here in the forum, if I may be so bold, we're glad you found the game too, and that you plan to become an active forum participant. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

CharonJr

March 2nd, 2004, 06:48 PM

Kelan,

thank you and welcome to the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Like Arryn said, still a tad below turn 50 but I think that I am already more or less in the mop up phase of the game, but since I don't use the score graphs I can't be sure.

But due to the AI's reluctant declarations of war I am fairly certain that my forces outnumber each of the remaining races' forces.

Currently I am even contemplating attacking the remaining races on purpose to get them to band together in order to kill me (which they should have done some turns ago IMO).

CharonJr

Norfleet

March 2nd, 2004, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
That's Ulm, and it's the second time they have done that. I may well be wrong, but I don't think they plan to attack Herghendorf. I think they plan to use that 170-strong force to attack the 40 barbarians in Arnbeg. Or so I hope.You were right in that they did, in fact, attack Arnbeg. This actually creates a host of other problems, and I would advise doing something about them:

That move by Ulm has now exposed Hoburgdorf and Ultima Typhia, in addition to the previously Herghendorf. This is going to make it that much harder to secure your border in the event that fighting breaks out. Had you managed to take Arnbeg before him, your exposure would have been limited to only that one province.

If he continues his advance and takes the province west of Well of All Waters whose name is illegible, your exposure profile will get even more inconveniently large. I recommend securing the province for yourself to avoid this.

Arryn

March 2nd, 2004, 09:32 PM

I have no intentions to do anything about the Ulmish army, other than to build 10 more PD in Ultima Typhia as a disincentive to them.

If they make another move, which I doubt they will unless this month's report underestimates their strength, it'll be to attack the 50 barbs in Imictan. If they were going to attack me, they would have already done so.

You worry too much. Must be a sign of creeping age ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

March 2nd, 2004, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
If they make another move, which I doubt they will unless this month's report underestimates their strength, it'll be to attack the 50 barbs in Imictan. If they were going to attack me, they would have already done so.Is that what the green foresty province I mentioned is called? It's definitely to your advantage to take that one BEFORE Ulm takes it: It'll reduce the number of provinces exposed by far. Even if you don't think Ulm will attack now, it's inevitable that they will: Don't you want your front lines to be fairly controllable by then?

You worry too much. Must be a sign of creeping age ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Don't mock me! I'm old! I'm old and I have a long beard! Don't say I didn't warn you!

Arryn

March 2nd, 2004, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Is that what the green foresty province I mentioned is called? It's definitely to your advantage to take that one BEFORE Ulm takes it: It'll reduce the number of provinces exposed by far. Even if you don't think Ulm will attack now, it's inevitable that they will: Don't you want your front lines to be fairly controllable by then?1. Just how do you expect me to get to it before Ulm? My army is 3 months away from it.

2. Taking the province would *increase* the number of my border provinces with Ulm. Only by having taken Arnbeg before Ulm could I have minimized my long-term exposure to Ulm. And taking Arnbeg would have required that I know in advance that Ulm was going to. It had sat there for 2+ years untouched. My attention is on Man and Vanheim. Sure, if I'd known 3-6 turns ago what the situation would be now, my armies would be deployed differently, but I have to make do with what I can predict 1 turn in advance. And even that isn't very certain.

3. Why are you so hung up on Ulm? I'm already at war with Vanheim, Atlantis is impinging it's dom on me, as is Pangaea. And Pangaea is the #2 world power behind Van. So I (the #3 power) already have borders with the two largest AIs. Ulm simply isn't a concern. They are a problem for R'lyeh to deal with, not me.

Norfleet

March 2nd, 2004, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
1. Just how do you expect me to get to it before Ulm? My army is 3 months away from it.You don't happen to have a teleporting FART you save just for when you absolutely, positively, have to get people somewhere yesterday? A remote summon or teleport-drop should likely be able to secure the area for you before Ulm overruns it.

2. Taking the province would *increase* the number of my border provinces with Ulm.On the surface, this may appear to be true, but consider what happens if the province falls to Ulm instead. You'll gain two additional points of exposure at the Well of All Waters AND that foresty province, Feral-something, south of it.

3. Why are you so hung up on Ulm? I'm already at war with Vanheim, Atlantis is impinging it's dom on me, as is Pangaea. And Pangaea is the #2 world power behind Van. So I (the #3 power) already have borders with the two largest AIs. Ulm simply isn't a concern. They are a problem for R'lyeh to deal with, not me. Obviously, because Ulm is up to something evil. You can tell just by looking at them. Just look at that shifty look in their beady little eyes. They're evil, I tell you! Evil!

Call it an old man's intuition. I've seen the pattern before.

Arryn

March 3rd, 2004, 02:47 AM

<center>Turn #35, Late Winter of Year 3
A breath of fresh air.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

The Gift of Health cures my wyrm and four of my afflicted Jotuns this month. (Three Jotuns, plus Bove, remain wounded.)

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon Ultima Typhia reveals a magical site: a Canyon of Wild Winds (2 air gems). At Last I have a source, modest as it is, of air gems. I am, however, quite surprised to find an air site in plains, especially a canyon!

It does not surprise me that I have apparently made an enemy of Vanheim, the most powerful nation in the world thus far. After the previous two months in which their forces were repulsed, bloodily, by my avatar at Man, they signal their displeasure by summoning a score of Black Hawks to raid Robber Home. The score of Jotun militia assigned to the provincial defense make short work of the oversized birds, killing nine before the rest fly off, only to be hunted down and spitted in my neighboring provinces. There is much roasted fowl to be had after the battle.

A commander, a monk, one knight, a cu sidhe, seven fanatics, two archers, and twelve slingers sally forth from the fortress of Man to engage my wyrm and try to break the seige. All of the troops are starving and most have one to as many as four afflictions. The knight becomes a tasty appetizer. Hungry for more, the slingers become the next course of Jorgun's meal. Alas, the wyrm is only able to gulp down just three more slingers (and render unconscious 5 more) before the enemy goes into a general rout and retreats back into the relative safety of their unsupplied fortress. Jorgun is able to chase down one Last, diseased and crippled slinger before the battle ends. My avatar accrued 10 kills and 11 trophies this month.

An independent force attacks Pangaea in Grypha. 2 knights (leaders), 7 knights, and 13 fanatics engage 1 centaur commander, 3 harpies, 6 satyrs, and 9 light infantry. The knights make very quick work of the harpies after which they charge the rest of the Pan forces. Next to be impaled by the knights are all the satyrs. The knights move on to engage the light infantry and finish them off just as the fanatics finally reach them. The centaur commander, left without troops, barely manages to escape ahead of the pursuing knights, and Pangaea loses control of the province.

The "red" wizard that was recruited at the Academy of High Magics in the Black Alps possesses skill in water (2W) and blood magics (1B).

My researchers achieve mastery of the sixth level of Evocation, and expect to achieve mastery of the sixth level of Enchantment by the end of the month.

My realm has:
 ___8 Dominion max. __19 Temples __38 Provinces converted 1024 Treasury. 1564 Income. (+14) _534 Upkeep. (+62) 23 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=8, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=17, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=7, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=4, PD=17, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=2, PD=0, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=1 Robber Home: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=6, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=0, PD=0, Unr=13 (under siege) Feral Woods: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=3, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_4 Fire (16) +_2 Air (02) +10 Water (18) +_4 Earth (18) +19 Astral (20) (includes 12 Clams) +_3 Death (10) +_9 Nature (23)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 6-Evocation* 6-Construction 5-Enchantment* 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 234 RPs (of 279 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 02, 2004, 12:54: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 3rd, 2004, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Obviously, because Ulm is up to something evil. You can tell just by looking at them. Just look at that shifty look in their beady little eyes. They're evil, I tell you! Evil!It's obvious you're a Man. Elves have an unreasoning hatred of dwarves ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Norfleet

March 3rd, 2004, 02:57 AM

Ulm is dwarves? They're really big humans, I thought. They're still obviously up to something, though. Can't you tell?

Arryn

March 3rd, 2004, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Ulm is dwarves? They're really big humans, I thought.Okay, so they're mutant dwarves ...

Norfleet

March 3rd, 2004, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Okay, so they're mutant dwarves ... I tend to be rather fond of dwarves, myself. They're old, they have long beards, and they're often mean, cranky, and irritable. They're also noted for tireless productivity. You know, rather like me!

But mutant dwarves? Unless you mean "mutant" in the sense of "has a chaingun for a hand", no mutants allowed!

Arryn

March 3rd, 2004, 01:01 PM

<center>Turn #36, Early Spring of Year 4
In the nick of time.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Vanheim summons a score of Black Hawks to raid Zenthra this month. The result is precisely the same as Last month.

Two earth gems are discovered in a ravine in Barra.

An independent force attacks Pangaea in Gaieta. 2 knights (leaders), 7 knights, and 13 fanatics engage 1 pan. The pan is easily defeated and Pangaea loses another province to a mysterious attack. I suspect a hidden pretender is playing with Pangaea's realm.

Vanheim attacks Mictlan in the province of Ragdan (due west of the Oak of Ages). The Vans muster 1 vanjarl, 4 einhere, 9 hirdmen, 4 huskarls, 10 barbarians, 3 heavy infantry, 4 light infantry, 5 fanatics, 8 woodsmen, 5 woodsmen blowpipe, and 7 archers. The Mictlani have a mere 1 tribal king, 2 warriors, and 2 slaves. Mictlan routs after just a single slave is killed by arrow fire.

A sidhe lord, a bard, two sidhe champions, two daoine sidhe, four horned serpents, and forty-nine fanatics sally forth from the fortress of Man to engage my force of Jorgun, Bove, Rod the Firbolg, four priests, twenty-one Jotun spearmen, and nine vine ogres. My priests kill several of the fanatics with Flame Bolts, but their sheer numbers manage to inflict enough harm to slay three of Rod's Jotuns. But by the time Man's army routs, they have lost all but their four commanders, a daoine sidhe, and 3 fanatics. A crushing and expensive defeat for Man, and dealt with just the vanguard of my army, not my full might. Nor did my wyrm contribute to the slaughter, as Jorgun was unable to maneuver around the wall of Jotuns in time after his preparatory spellcasting was completed. With my Jotuns now present, I expect that the fortress gates will quickly be breached.

Vanheim also attacks my province of the Rim Mountains, with a non-summoned force of 1 commander, 2 trolls, 4 heavy infantry, 5 vaetti, and 8 archers. My provincial defenders slaughters the entire Van force except for two insignificant, puny vaetti.

Observing from the Rim Mountains, I see the Atlantian force in Nifel conquer the independents of Fucan.

My main army in Melma numbers twice what the province can support. Consequently, half of the Jotuns are starving, as I had expected. The Gift of Health limits the impact to an increase by three of Jotuns diseased and/or afflicted in that army.

The "red" wizard that was recruited at the Academy of High Magics in the Black Alps possesses skill in fire (2F) and blood magics (1B).

My researchers achieve mastery of the sixth level of Enchantment.

My realm has:
 ___9 Dominion max. __21 Temples __39 Provinces converted 1001 Treasury. 1594 Income. (+30) _564 Upkeep. (+30) 23 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=9, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=17, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=8, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=4, PD=17, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=3, PD=0, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=6, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=0, PD=0, Unr=12 (under siege) Feral Woods: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=3, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_4 Fire (20) +_2 Air (04) +10 Water (18) +_4 Earth (06) +20 Astral (35) (includes 13 Clams) +_3 Death (03) +_9 Nature (12)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 6-Evocation* 6-Construction 6-Enchantment 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 265 RPs (of 327 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 03, 2004, 11:55: Message edited by: Arryn ]

1000yd_stare

March 3rd, 2004, 03:55 PM

I love this AAR. You obviously put a lot of time into it; please keep up the good work for myself and the countless other lurkers who are reading it.
Thanks!

Arryn

March 3rd, 2004, 04:04 PM

Thanks, Stare! Yes, I do put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into it. It takes by far longer to write up a turn than to play one. And then there's the image captures and uploads to my web site. I am certainly pleased that folks in the forum appreciate it. Positive feedback is what motivates me to keep going.

As someone noted a while back, I even pause the battle replays to count each and every unit on the field, and often I examine most of the enemy units, individually, for things like starvation and afflictions. Writing up a single battle takes longer than wrting up the entire rest of the turn, including special events and my move plots. So you can imagin how long it takes, as it's doing now, when I have 3-5 battles each turn in my message report.

Arryn

March 3rd, 2004, 10:14 PM

<center>Turn #37, Spring of Year 4
Treasures under the world.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon Ancyrna reveals a magical site, an entrance into The Underworld (3 earth gems). This valuable site permits me to recruit the excellent, tough, large (size 5) trampling Troglodytes, at 50g (and only 1r) apiece. (Unlike most tramplers in Dom, these have good morale, a 14!) The site will also permit me, once I erect a lab, to recruit Gnomes, which are nice earth/nature mages (2E + 2N) with glamour, stealth, and forestry. Gnomes will make great hit-n-run attackers, especially if accompanied by the proper summoned creatures.

(In the interest of speeding up the process of writing these turns, and to save myself some wear and tear, I'm not going to go into detail on battles fought by other nations against indies or each other. From this turn onwards, I'll just give a brief summary of what happened.)

Caelum attacks Vanheim in the Pillar of the World with Call of the Winds. The defending 3 PD beat off all of the birds, without a single loss.

Vanheim attacks my province of Herghendorf. Their force of 1 commander, 5 skin shifters, 2 hirdmen, 1 heavy infantry, 6 light infantry, 5 crossbowman, and 5 archers face my PD plus the bulk of my army (Bove, Grymis, et. al.). I suffer no irreplaceable (non-PD) losses and the Vans lose half of their attacking force, with 1 commander, 4 skin shifters, 1 light infantry, 4 crossbowman, 2 archers escaping back to Ivenmoor. Bove earns his third experience star.

Ulm attacks indies in Belmar (due north of my Well of All Waters). A diverse and tough Ulmish force of roughly 60 faces about a third their number of indies, a mix of cavalry and fanatics. The Ulms give much better than they receive, and the indy morale just isn't good enough for the indy heavy cavalry to press home their attack. Ulm wins with few losses.

Machaka attacks Abysia in the Yellow Mountains. A Machakan force of 20 bone fiends, 20 machakan archers, 2 spiders, a circle master, and the Machakan prophet attacks 4 Abysian PD. The prophet smites the PD leader and the battle ends before much else happens.

Pangaea attacks indies in Gaieta. The Pangaen Carrion Dragon pretender itself along with less than a score of assorted Pan units faces 2 knights (leaders), 7 knights, and 13 fanatics. The indy knights do considerable damage ... until the dragon closes into melee and terrifies the knights (with +15 fear). That pretty much ends the fight, except for routing knights, blocked by centaurs, being eaten from behind by the dragon.

A death match has been scheduled at the arena in Robber Home for next month.

My besieging Jotuns at Man breach the fortress gates with ease. The end of Man is nigh.

Atlantis has massed a significant force of spearmen and shamblers in Nifel that concerns me. I am fairly certain that Atlantis and Vanheim are not at war, so the only reason I can see for Atlantis to amass these troops is that they are considering a move upon Man.

The "red" wizard that was recruited at the Academy of High Magics in the Black Alps possesses skill in air (2A) and death magics (1D).

My researchers expect to achieve mastery of the seventh level of Evocation by the end of the month.

My realm has:
 ___9 Dominion max. __21 Temples __43 Provinces converted _978 Treasury. 1573 Income. (-21) _617 Upkeep. (+53) 23 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=9, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=7, PD=17, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=8, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=4, PD=17, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=2, PD=0, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=7, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=3, PD=0, Unr=12 (under siege) Feral Woods: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=4, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_4 Fire (19) +_2 Air (06) +10 Water (11) +_7 Earth (08) +22 Astral (30) (includes 15 Clams) +_3 Death (06) +_9 Nature (09)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 6-Evocation* 6-Construction* 6-Enchantment 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 292 RPs (of 367 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 04, 2004, 00:28: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 4th, 2004, 02:40 AM

<center>Turn #36, Early Spring of Year 4
In the nick of time.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I recruit Seithkonas in Jotunheim, Pythium, and Ashikaga. Another "red" Wizard is recruited in the Black Alps, while another Garnet Priestess is recruited at the Well. I recruit another 4 Jotun spearmen in Jotunheim, 6 Jotun spearmen in Pythium, and 1 Jotun spearman in Ashikaga. I raise the PD in Ultima Typhia by 10 (to 20). These preparations drain the treasury of 995 coins.

The Ivy King Thomm begins a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem each month. The four ogres per month, which do not consume supplies, will be useful in the Vanheim wastelands. The Wizard Lekiro begins the ritual to Awaken Sleeper, expending 10 nature gems. (I need another good commander of Jotuns to form a second army, and I already have other long-term plans for the recently-summoned Bane Lord in Jotunheim.) The Norna Rimdriva prepares to invoke the ritual of Acashic Record upon the province of Ancyrna, for which I allot 25 of the astral pearls in the treasury. The Skratti Tunne, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges another Clam of Pearls, at a cost of only 7 water gems. The Wizard Retheric forges a Clam of Pearls, at the normal cost of 10 water gems. The Enchantress Pladina forges a Charcoal Shield, intended for the firbolg that is being summoned by Lekiro, at a cost of 5 fire and 5 earth gems.

Jorgun and Rod the Firbolg maintain the seige of the capital of Man for a fourth month, while the four "battle" priests commence preaching my virtues to the unenlightened people of Man.

Bove, commanding the rest of my Jotun army, along with Grymis, the commander Ualgo, and two priests move from Melma to Herghendorf, where there will be ample supplies for all of the troops. From Herghendorf, I can strike into the weakly-held forested mountains of Kratas, should Ulm become hostile, and raze a temple. I do not think that this will prove necessary, but I will be prepared. What is more likely is that Ulm will strike next at the barbarians in the forest of Imictan, if the force in Arnbeg attacks at all. Assuming that I am correct, then I will take the army westwards into the plains of Ivenmoor and crush the Vanheim force which is guarding that border province and threatening Herghendorf.

The six priests in Barra, their mission complete, move to join the seige camp at Man. (I will have a formidable ecclesiastical contingent of 10 priests in Man this next month.) The priest in the Iron Range moves to Gwyrth, the Last province I control which does not, yet, contain a temple. The priest in Bel, having completed temple-raising, moves westwards to Ultima Typhia, while the priest in Ashikaga moves to rendezvous with Bove's army at Herghendorf.

The Bane Lord Ashsoul will escort 4 Jotuns from my capital to the Black Alps, to deliver them to the firbolg that is being summoned.

Turn #36 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-36a.jpg) (1280x1024)

[ March 03, 2004, 13:28: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 4th, 2004, 02:42 AM

The start of Turn #37 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-37.jpg) (1280x1024)

Arryn

March 4th, 2004, 10:41 AM

<center>Turn #37, Spring of Year 4
Treasures under the world.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I recruit 5 Troglodytes in Ancyrna and Seithkonas in Jotunheim, Pythium, and Ashikaga. Another "red" Wizard is recruited in the Black Alps, while a another Garnet Priestess is recruited at the Well. I raise the PD in Ancyna by 1 (to 18), and a new temple is to be built in Gwyrth. These preparations completely drain the treasury.

The Ivy King Thomm continues a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem each month. The Norna Rimdriva prepares to invoke the ritual of Acashic Record upon the province of Zenthra, for which I allot 25 of the astral pearls in the treasury. The Skratti Tunne, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges another Clam of Pearls, at a cost of only 7 water gems. My three Garnet Priestesses each forge a Sceptre of Authority, using a total of 15 of the fire gems in the treasury. The Enchantress Petrona forges Winged Boots, for which I allot 5 precious air gems. A Seithkona forges an Endless Bag of Wine, expending 5 nature gems, while another Seithkona forges a Horror Helm, using 5 death gems.

My wyrm Jorgun will, alone, storm the Man fortress.

Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with 4 priests carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards, moves east from Man to attack Vanheim's province of Agenor.

Bove, commanding the rest of my Jotun army, along with Grymis and a two priests, moves northwest from Herghendorf to attack Vanheim's province of Ivenmoor. Commander Ualgo, with six afflicted Jotuns from Bove's army, remains patrolling in Herghendorf so that the giants can receive the Gift of Health.

The priest in Ultima Typhia moves to Ashikaga, while the priest in Robber Home moves to The Promised Land, and two of the six spare priests at Man move south to the Rim Mountains. I send a Seithkona from Pythium to Ancyrna so that she may build a lab in that province next month. Ashsoul the Bane Lord returns to Jotunheim. Tahmar, with a dozen Jotuns, moves from Pythium to the Black Alps to rendezvous with Swanuth the Firbolg.

Turn #37 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-37a.jpg) (1280x1024)

Arryn

March 4th, 2004, 10:42 AM

The start of Turn #38 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-38.jpg) (1280x1024)

CharonJr

March 4th, 2004, 11:16 AM

Hmm, looks like Atlantis prepared to grab the indie province of Ministra opening up a total of 3 undefended provinces with temples that would be razed by a successful attack if they should decide to attack you.

While your PDs are fairly formidable I doubt that they could repell a determinded attack unless Atlantis is only using fodder troops.

Well, maybe Atlantis has some easier indie targets left somewhere, but otherwise this troop buildup in the sea looks threatening IMO. Well there is Saeborsa with some connected indie provinces...

CharonJr

Arryn

March 4th, 2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by CharonJr:
Hmm, looks like Atlantis prepared to grab the indie province of Ministra opening up a total of 3 undefended provinces with temples that would be razed by a successful attack if they should decide to attack you.All my provinces have temples, except for the just-captured Man. Getting hit anywhere would hurt some. I agree with your assessment on Ministra but there's not much that I can do about it without provoking a war with Atlantis. If I Teleport there with my pretender, and capture the province (in the magic phase) ahead of Atlantis, that will cause the same situation I had with Vanheim: an "accidental" conflict that starts a war.

Like Norfleet's issue with Ulm, Atlantis could take those coastal indies anytime they wanted to. I did have the power to take them myself several months ago, but Man was, by far, a much higher priority for me. The way I've been ignoring the AIs on my borders would not be viable in any MP game, even an MP game with AIs. But as a SP game, I am relying on the "diplomacy" of the AI to "leave me alone if I leave them alone". I didn't want a war with Vanheim, but I got one, and if I slack off against Vanheim to devote attention to indies I'll only make things harder for myself in the long run. I plan to take the indies, whichever ones the various AIs on my borders don't take first, with a second (and third) army I'm assembling. I think I still have 4-8 months before the AIs near me run out of easy prey and start to look at me with greed. While your PDs are fairly formidable I doubt that they could repell a determinded attack unless Atlantis is only using fodder troops.Alas, no. Atlantians in Nifel (~80) are mixed spearmen (fodder) and shamblers (okay). In Atlantis (~170) they are shamblers (okay), reef warriors (okay), tritons (dangerous to leaders), and spearmen (fodder). When the bulk of the Atlantian army is non-fodder (bulk is the first listed troop type), I have cause to be concerned. Well, maybe Atlantis has some easier indie targets left somewhere, but otherwise this troop buildup in the sea looks threatening IMO. Well there is Saeborsa with some connected indie provinces...I'm hoping this is what they'll go for after Ministra.

I also have suspicions, as yet unconfirmed, that Atlantis may be at war with one or more of: Vanheim, R'leyh, and Arco.

Thanks for the comments/observations.

[ March 04, 2004, 10:15: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 4th, 2004, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
As I predicted, Ulm is now imminently planning to seize that independent province.You're like a dog with a bone on that, aren't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Fixated on the "evil, perfidious, and nefarious" Ulms. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Give it a rest, will ya? Isn't going to happen. God says so. Remember that God is All-knowing, if not yet All-powerful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

OTOH, with regards to Atlantis, I'm just out of luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Arryn

March 4th, 2004, 09:36 PM

<center>Turn #38, Late Spring of Year 4
Dust to dust.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon Zenthra reveals a magical site, The Temple of the Raging God (2 fire gems), where Fire Lords, Pyromancers (1F, 60g), and High Priests (3H, 80g) may be recruited, and which increases the turmoil of the province.

Caelum attacks Vanheim in the Pillar of the World with Call of the Winds. The attack is beaten off easily without loss by Vanheim.

Bove, commanding the bulk of my Jotun army, along with Grymis and two priests, attacks Vanheim's province of Ivenmoor. The defending 3 PD of Vanheim are completely wiped out without the Jotuns even breaking sweat.

Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 healthy Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with 4 priests carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards, attacks Vanheim's province of Agenor. Van's defense consists of 1 commander, 1 herse (PD), 3 huskarls (PD), and 14 light infantry. Two of the Vanheim light infantry are slain by Flame Bolts. Only nine of the light infantry escape, and all other defenders are killed by the Jotuns.

At Man, my wyrm (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/Jorgun_at_Man.jpg) does a solo storming of the fortress. Within lies only the immobile Man monolith (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/Man_pretender.jpg) pretender. The monolith attempts no fewer than 15 Paralyze spells before Jorgun finishes reducing the pretender to rubble. Thus ends the dominion of Man in a pile of rock dust.

At the death match, the rounds go as follows:
 1. Vanheim (Vanjarl prophet) vs. Atlantis (Consort). Vanheim wins. 2. Machaka (Sacred King prophet) vs. Mictlan (Priest King prophet). Machaka wins in 2 Smites. 3. Vanheim (Vanjarl prophet) vs. Machaka (Sacred King prophet). Vanheim wins. 4. R'lyeh (Traitor Prince) vs. Ulm (Black Lord w/ Chest wound & Battle fright). R'lyeh defeats the crippled Ulmite. 5. R'lyeh (Traitor Prince w/Battle fright) vs. Arco (Ettin). Arco wins. 6. Caelum (Vampire Queen pretender) vs. Arco (Ettin w/Battle fright). Caelum wins with Hand of Death. 7. Vanheim (Vanjarl prophet) vs. Caelum (Vampire Queen pretender). Caelum wins with an endless succession of Ghost Wolves. For every one the Van prophet kills, two more take their place. 8. Pangaea (Centaur Commander) vs. Caelum (Vampire Queen pretender). Caelum wins with Hand of Death.
It amuses me immensely to see the prophets of three pretenders slain in my arena. Especially that of Vanheim.

The "red" wizard that was recruited at the Academy of High Magics in the Black Alps possesses skill in water (2W) and astral magics (1S).

My researchers achieve mastery of the seventh level of Evocation, and expect to achieve mastery of the seventh level of Construction by the end of the month.

My realm has:
 ___9 Dominion max. __22 Temples __42 Provinces converted _961 Treasury. 1640 Income. (+67) _664 Upkeep. (+47) 25 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=9, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=7, PD=17, Unr=2 Eribon: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=8, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=4, PD=18, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=7, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=4, PD=0, Unr=10 Feral Woods: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Agenor: Dom=0, PD=0, Unr=43 Kepess: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Ivenmoor: Dom=0, PD=0, Unr=16
Gem income is:
 +_6 Fire (10) +_5 Air (06) +10 Water (14) +_7 Earth (15) +22 Astral (27) (includes 15 Clams) +_3 Death (04) +11 Nature (14)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 7-Evocation 6-Construction* 6-Enchantment 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 337 RPs (of 400 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 04, 2004, 19:45: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

March 4th, 2004, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
You're like a dog with a bone on that, aren't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Fixated on the "evil, perfidious, and nefarious" Ulms. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Give it a rest, will ya? Isn't going to happen. God says so. Remember that God is All-knowing, if not yet All-powerful. Yes, yes I am. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif My tenacious, dog-with-a-bone behavior is what wins me a lot of arguments, games, fights, and battles. It's amazingly effective, since while everyone else suffers a morale failure and routs, my unshakeable 30 morale carries the day. I only leave the field victorious, or in a body bag.

Yaar! Have at thee!

[ March 04, 2004, 21:28: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Norfleet

March 5th, 2004, 02:59 AM

As I predicted, Ulm is now imminently planning to seize that independent province. As Charon as pointed out, you're soon to be facing a similar situation with Atlantis. In Atlantis's case, since you can ill afford a war with them, given the absolutely huge number of provinces exposed to attack from the sea, and your somewhat limited ability to mount a retaliation, you may just be stuck with it. Best not to antagonize them prior to developing an aquatic force. If the opportunity presents itself and Atlantis continues its state of paralysis, you might wish to close off that problem, though: It's possible that the large force in Atlantis is only that may make it somewhat crucial province to them, plus the fact that being underwater limits partially land-capable and is being retained as the capitol garrison: Given that I recall a fair number of Atlantean troop types are capitol-only,their vulnerability to airstrikes and allows them to mass with comparative impunity.

And I wouldn't say that dealing with indies is "slacking off" against Vanheim, necessarily. In my multiplayer campaigns, I've noticed that, oftentimes, a player who gets overly fixated on a single war against a single opponent will often suffer even more as he neglects to attend to his own internal affairs, thus causing great self-inflicted harm upon his own empire as expansion and construction falter due to inattention.

Arryn

March 5th, 2004, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
unshakeable 30 morale30 isn't unshakeable in Dom. 50 is. Morale 30 units do rout, and surprisingly more often than you'd think they would.

Norfleet

March 5th, 2004, 06:37 AM

I've never seen a morale-30 unit rout from anything short of a complete army wipeout, where commanders auto-rout because their army has been destroyed. Sometimes I wish they *WOULD* bug out, but they never do. Either way, I certainly know when to bug out....but I WILL BE BACK! I'm not mindless, after all.

[ March 05, 2004, 04:38: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

March 5th, 2004, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I've never seen a morale-30 unit rout from anything short of a complete army wipeout, {snip} I'm not mindless, after all. I have seen it, which was a rude surprise. I have a savegame of one somewhere, but I have so many of them now that I've no idea which one has that battle (it was an AI or indy unit that did it, IIRC). And the mindless straight line is *so* tempting ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

March 5th, 2004, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
I have seen it, which was a rude surprise. I have a savegame of one somewhere, but I have so many of them now that I've no idea which one has that battle (it was an AI or indy unit that did it, IIRC). And the mindless straight line is *so* tempting ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Yeah, I'll bet. I wonder what happened? Maybe it was explicitly ordered to do so? And if you succumb to the temptation, I'll say something biting and nasty back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

March 5th, 2004, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
And if you succumb to the temptation, I'll say something biting and nasty back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course you will. That's what makes you so endearing ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

CharonJr

March 5th, 2004, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I've never seen a morale-30 unit rout from anything short of a complete army wipeout, where commanders auto-rout because their army has been destroyed. Sometimes I wish they *WOULD* bug out, but they never do. Either way, I certainly know when to bug out....but I WILL BE BACK! I'm not mindless, after all. My Vastness (30 morale) routed due to pesky longbowmen during the Last turn of my AAR despite most likely being able to kill them without breaking much of a sweat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

CharonJr

Norfleet

March 5th, 2004, 10:41 AM

Did he rout because of troop loss? It's possible that if he enslaved a unit, which then died, it auto-routed because of that.

CharonJr

March 5th, 2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Did he rout because of troop loss? It's possible that if he enslaved a unit, which then died, it auto-routed because of that. Nope, it had no troops and due to 3S wasn't able to enslave anything.

CharonJr

1000yd_stare

March 10th, 2004, 08:59 PM

bump to find out what happens next...

Arryn

March 11th, 2004, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by 1000yd_stare:
bump to find out what happens next... I'll pick things up again this weekend. Thanks for the continued interest. I've been busy, and I've also come down with some bug since yesterday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Whatever Gandalf had I think I've caught. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Norfleet

March 11th, 2004, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
I've also come down with some bug since yesterday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Whatever Gandalf had I think I've caught. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I give this suggestion often, but try ignoring it, and it will go away.

Arryn

March 12th, 2004, 09:26 AM

<center>Turn #38, Late Spring of Year 4
Dust to dust.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I raise the PD in Ancyna by 2 (to 20), in Zenthra by 3 (to 20), in Agenor to 9, in Man to 20, and in Ivenmoor to 20. A new lab is to be built in Ancyrna, and a new temple in Man. These preparations drain the treasury of 961 coins.

Taxes are reduced to zero in Agenor to quell unrest.

The Ivy King Thomm continues a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem each month. The Norna Rimdriva prepares to invoke the ritual of Acashic Record upon the province of Ivenmoor, for which I allot 25 of the astral pearls in the treasury. The Skratti Tunne, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges another Clam of Pearls, at a cost of only 7 water gems. The Enchantress Petrona forges Winged Boots, for which I allot 5 air gems. Two Garnet Priestesses each forge a Sceptre of Authority, using all 10 fire gems in the treasury. Two Seithkona each forge an Endless Bag of Wine, expending 10 nature gems.

My wyrm Jorgun will Teleport to Imictan, consuming the Last 2 astral pearls in the treasury. Imictan is reported to contain some 30 barbarians. Even twice that number should not present any problems. While I have little concern for any hostilities stemming from Ulm's recent acquisitions in provinces adjacent to Imictan, in the long run I cannot afford to just sit idly by and let my neighbors continue to grow in strength. It is better if I lay claim to the resources that these as-yet-independent provinces contain.

With that thought, I command that Swanuth the Firbolg, who is given the Winged Boots that were forged Last month, take command of a new army of 20 Jotun spearmen and 8 vine ogres in the Black Alps and that this army move to occupy the rich coastal farmlands of Saeborea, heading off any potential expansion of Atlantis or Arcoscephale into the eastern part of my realm. The commander Theag will move to Ancyrna to pick up the recently recruited Troglodytes there, while Tahmar moves back to Pythium.

The four priests in the Rim Mountains move to Agenor, as do three of the priests in Man, and commander Stark from Melma.

Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with 4 priests carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards, move northeast from Agenor to attack Vanheim's province of Gipha. Resistance is expected to amount to no more than a score of archers and light infantry.

Bove, commanding my largest Jotun army, will patrol Ivenmoor, while Grymis and the priest Erkeborn preach there. The other priest in Bove's army, Arnold, heads to Hoburgdorf.

Ualgo, with a half-dozen Jotuns (four of them still afflicted), moves from Herghendorf to rejoin Bove's army at Ivenmoor.

Turn #38 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-38a.jpg) (1178x1024)

Arryn

March 12th, 2004, 09:30 AM

The start of Turn #39 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-39.jpg) (1178x1024)

Norfleet

March 12th, 2004, 08:38 PM

It looks like you've finally decided to heed my warnings and do something about that Ulm problem. Meanwhile, your Vanheim infestation seems well under control. In the near future, at leisure, you may wish to expand eastward into the Independent provinces. This will enhance your general income and resources, without having to antagonize any of your neighbors. This is a good thing: One should never get so distracted by an ongoing war elsewhere that internal affairs are neglected. I find this to be a common failing among many of the people I've played against: They become so tunnel-visioned that their empire is neglected while they fight a war which nets them little profit with somebody else. Don't let this happen to you.

Arryn

March 12th, 2004, 08:55 PM

Ulm was not a problem. They are now, but that's of my own doing with my wyrm, as you will see when I get part 1 of turn 39 posted. My decision stemmed solely from economic, not military, considerations. As soon as I finish munching on some of the provinces to my immediate southeast (Saeborea was the first of three on my agenda), I intend to shift that army northwards and take the indies that are between R'leyh and my realm. The indies due east remain useful as a buffer against Vanheim's westward expansion, as well as Marignon's.

It's not so much a case of tunnel-vision as in not having the gem income to create instant armies as needed, and in having the bulk of my forces not in a position to gobble up the indies to my east and north. So I'll be doing that with my pretender, and with a secondary army I created just for the task.

You are too accustomed to playing Ermor and being able to raise armies quickly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Jotunheim requires more patience, and more thinking ahead of where you'll need the relatively small number of expensive and powerful troops you can muster. (R'leyh, with its expensive Illithids, has a similar situation.)

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you see what I do plan to do with that rather largish Jotun army in Ivenmoor ...

[ March 12, 2004, 19:04: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

March 12th, 2004, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
You are too accustomed to playing Ermor and being able to raise armies quickly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Jotunheim requires more patience, and more thinking ahead of where you'll need the relatively small number of expensive and powerful troops you can muster. (R'leyh, with its expensive Illithids, has a similar situation.Just because I'm an Ermorian, I'm impatient and don't know how to think ahead and use expensive but powerful troops? That's racial profiling, I tell you!

An Ermorian army certainly CAN raise quickly, but you don't really have any real control of this. Furthermore, the troops tend to be mostly worthless and die en-masse even if you win the battle. That kind of attrition can quickly grind your advance to a halt unless you're feeding in a steady supply of fresh fodder. And all your troops are fodder.

I've played a fair amount of Jotunheim, too: One of the nice things about Jotun is that against the kind of light Indies you're facing, a Jotunheim army can roll over the opposition with few if any losses.

Besides, I never said YOU were suffering from tunnel vision, merely that it was a problem that often afflicted other people.

Arryn

March 12th, 2004, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Just because I'm an Ermorian, I'm impatient and don't know how to think ahead and use expensive but powerful troops? That's racial profiling, I tell you!I distinctly recall a conversation we had, perhaps in private (it was some weeks ago), in which you did state you *are* impatient. Doth protest too much thy dubious innocence methinks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As for Ermorian fodder, isn't it the whole point of having hordes of them that you can just mindlessly (pun and leg-pulling intended) throw them willy-nilly at your foe heedless of losses? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Norfleet

March 12th, 2004, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
I distinctly recall a conversation we had, perhaps in private (it was some weeks ago), in which you did state you *are* impatient. Doth protest too much thy dubious innocence methinks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif No, patience, on a strategic level, is definitely not one of my shortcomings, especially due to my preference towards long-run strategies. Impatience is something I'm commonly accused of by people who don't understand me. I think you're thinking of somebody else, though. I don't recall saying that. Impatience is definitely not among my weaknesses, although senility might be.

As for Ermorian fodder, isn't it the whole point of having hordes of them that you can just mindlessly (pun and leg-pulling intended) throw them willy-nilly at your foe heedless of losses? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Why, yes, yes it is. Actually, I normally *DO* have a great aVersion to losses, and, in fact, Jotunheim or Vanheim more closely matches my "regular" style in every OTHER game. You can witness my loss-aVersion behavior coming to light in my attitude towards SC design.

However, Dominions II is the first game that's done the undead with a proper feel to them. Every other game has them JUST expensive enough that I become annoyed with their ineffectiveness and massive casualties. Dominions II, on the other hand, removes this. I don't even have to hire them anymore, I can just fling them at anything willy-nilly. That's kind of fun, too.

However, massive casualties DOES kind of slow down one's advance, as the entire mob gets wiped out sooner or later.

Finally, the *TRUE* selling point, to me, of Ermor, is ORDER. I am a man of orderliness. I like my things to be kept in order, and I value permanence. While a thriving, happy empire is certainly one brand of order that I often pursue in other games, few things can beat the orderliness of Ermor: A world laid entirely to burnination, consisting of 0 population throughout. THAT is definitely clean and orderly. And permanent. After all, cleanliness is next to godliness, and isn't godliness the entire point of Dominions II?

As my sig says....

Arryn

March 13th, 2004, 12:06 PM

<center>Turn #39, Early Summer of Year 4
Growing pains.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon Ivenmoor reveals three(!) magical sites: the Azure Academy (1 water gem), where Azure Mages (2W, 100g) & Initiates (1W, 60g) may be recruited (in the accompanying lab); the Sun Ridge (2 fire gems), with accompanying watch tower fortification, and a Farm of Plenty (+25 supply).

The level of supply in Ivenmoor is only sufficient for roughly 45% of my army there, so starvation, disease, and opportunistic afflictions run rampant amongst the troops. I am appalled to think what the situation would be like without the Gift of Health, as over half this army is afflicted in spite of it.

Again I sense a powerful ripple in the magical weave of the world. The sudden concentration of astral magics from the realm of Mictlan loudly bespeaks of their having undertaken the ritual of Stellar Focus. I am untroubled by this event, since it does not affect my realm, and Mictlan is my ally of circumstance in our mutual conflict with Vanheim.

Vanheim summons a score of Black Hawks using the ritual Call of the Winds to attack The Promised Land. As in previous months, the defending Jotun militia easily eat the fowl assault, with much appreciation. I am very pleased to see my foe expend five precious air gems per month in such futile gestures.

Jorgun Teleports to Imictan directly into a battle with three dozen barbarians, plus their leader. Seventeen of the savages manage to escape my wyrm's feast, never to be seen again.

Marignon attacks the 30+ amazons of Polgrave (who also have a Garnet Priestess, a Garnet Sorceress, and two gryphon riders) with a force of a score of flagellants led by a witch hunter, and a mixed force of ten pikeneers and eight light infantry led by an inquisitor. The riders suicide against the pikes, but the amazons in turn slaughter all the flagellants. When the savage ladies reach the ranks of the pikes and infantry, the army of Marignon routs after losing three of the infantrymen. Marignon suffers a few more losses of infantry and pike as they flee from the rapidly pursuing amazons.

Swanuth the Firbolg, commanding an army of 20 Jotun spearmen and 8 vine ogres, attacks the independent defenders of Saeborea, which muster 2 mounted commanders, 1 priest, 21 heavy cavalry, 19 heavy infantry, and 4 fanatics. The Gift of Health, made strong by my dominion in this province, provides an 80% boost to the health of the Jotuns (+24HPs), allowing them to take the cavalry charge with ease. Swanuth, at the beginning of the battle, immediately flew behind the cavalry to disrupt the enemy's plans and draw their commanders into battle. In the image below, you can see the situation several rounds into the battle with Swanuth having just slain the second (and Last) mounted commander. The first is already fleeing from Swanuth's helm-generated aura of fear, and the priest was slain a few moments before. Sending the firbolg alone into the enemy rear was a calculated risk that in this instance paid off in greatly reducing the amount of damage the Jotuns absorbed before the enemy fled. Swanuth did receive a chest wound, and lost two-thirds of his health, before winning the fray. Were it not for the Gift of Health he would have died from the number of hits he took.
 Just before the Saeborean defenders rout (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/Saeborea.jpg). (1174x1002)Caelum attacks Vanheim in Emryc. Caelum musters their Vampire Queen pretender, 3 ghosts, 6 lamias, and 10 wingless against the defenders who can only muster 2 herse, 1 heavy cavalry, 7 light cavalry, 5 huskarls, and 4 barbarians. The Caelum pretender, after a few defensive preparatory spells, summons 4 Ghost Wolves each round for the remainder of the short conflict, as the Van forces are no match even for the lamias and ghosts Caelum began the battle with.

Ulm attacks Jorgun in the province of Imictan, having expected to encounter only independents. Ulm fields a commander of Ulm, 1 heavy cavalryman, 5 black plate infantry (w/shields), 4 black plate infantry (flail), 19 assorted infantry of Ulm, 8 heavy infantry, 18 barbarians, 10 amazons, 3 light infantry, 19 crossbowman, and 8 archers. My wyrm begins the battle with a large amount of health (406HP), due to the combined effects of dominion and Gift of Health bonuses, and a very impressive regeneration rate of 41HPs which makes him nigh-invincible to anything but magic, which the Ulmish force completely lacks. Against this living scaley juggernaut is an Ulmish army that is suffering from extensive starvation, and averages just 6-7 morale (and only 3-4 amongst the missile troops). First to become wyrm-food is the lone horseman, who reaches my avatar after Jorgun has completed all (4 rounds of) preparatory spellcasting. Next up on the dinner menu is a course of barbarian stew, flavored with amazon, and with a side helping of infantry. For dessert, a light portion of missileers awaits. By the end of the battle, when Ulm has had their fill of filling my wyrm's stomach, Jorgun has accounted for 41 of the 95 Ulmish troops. (Killing 1 heavy cavalryman, 4 assorted infantry of Ulm, 1 heavy infantry, all 18 barbarians, 6 amazons, 2 light infantry, 7 crossbowman, and 2 archers.) Jorgun, in the carnage of two battles this month, accrues another 56 kills and 42 trophies to his fame.
 Shortly before the Ulmish army routs (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/Imictan.jpg). (1174x1002)Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with 4 priests carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards, attacks Vanheim's province of Gipha. The meager 4 PD is easily overhwelmed. Upon occupying the province, I learn that Vanheim had discovered a magical site, a BLasted Heath (2 air gems). Reducing Van's magical air income, and adding it to my own, is a double blessing.

Mictlan attacks Vanheim in Ragdan. Mictlani forces: 2 Mictlan priests, 1 fiend of darkness, 1 spine devil, 13 eagle warriors, 5 warriors, 2 slaves, and 1 blood slave. Van forces: PD of 2, plus a mobile army of 1 commander, 3 heavy infantry, and 12 light infantry. The Vans are annihilated, but it costs Mictlan 8 of their eagle warriors.

Ulm attacks Pangaea in Nicia. Ulmish forces: 1 commander of Ulm, 4 black plate infantry (flail), 2 infantry of Ulm (w/shield), 4 barbarians, 1 light infantry, 9 crossbowmen, 2 archers, and 4 sappers. Panaean forces: 1 centaur commander, 6 satyrs, and 3 harpies. A victory by Ulm is a foregone conclusion. Only the centaur and a single satyr escape.

A brief recap of the strategic situation on Orania is in order. The following are ongoing wars that I know about for certain:
 Abysia vs. Machaka. (Machakan capital beseiged) Ulm vs. Pangaea ... and now Jotunheim. Vanheim vs. Atlantis, Caelum, Jotunheim, and Mictlan.Atlantis may also be at war with Arcoscephale, and/or R'leyh, as I have witnessed large armies of theirs move southwards, never to be seen again. As of this month, I have surpassed Pangaea in number of provinces, and I have tied Vanheim for the #1 position. I lead all other categories by a significant margin, excepting army size, in which I rank #5 (up from #8 Last time I looked).

My researchers achieve mastery of the seventh level of Construction.

My realm has:
 ___9 Dominion max. __23 Temples __43 Provinces converted 1077 Treasury. 1770 Income. (+130) _664 Upkeep. (unchanged) 28 Provinces controlled Saeborea: Dom=5, PD=0, Unr=39 Jotunheim: Dom=9, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=7, PD=20, Unr=2 Eribon: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=8, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=6, PD=20, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=5, PD=20, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=7, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=10 Feral Woods: Dom=9, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=8, PD=20, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Agenor: Dom=0, PD=9, Unr=10 Kepess: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Imictan: Dom=5, PD=0, Unr=15 Gipha: Dom=1, PD=0, Unr=11 Ivenmoor: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_8 Fire (08) +_7 Air (08) +11 Water (18) +_7 Earth (22) +24 Astral (23) (includes 17 Clams) +_3 Death (07) +11 Nature (14)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 7-Evocation 7-Construction* 6-Enchantment 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 347 RPs (of 408 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 13, 2004, 18:14: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Gateway103

March 13th, 2004, 10:15 PM

Question regarding regeneration. Does it only work when the unit is below its base HP?

I ask this because in my recent Orania SP game as Atlantis (V2.06), I also used a Wyrm. However, it doesn't seem to regenerate during battle. That is, say I check at the beginning of the battle that it has 323 HP, regen of 32 per turn. A few turns later, it took some damage and dropped to 277 say. It stayed at 277 until the enemy routs (hard to say if it regenerates in between, with all the fighiting, but unlikely as enemies are also unlikely to cause exactly 32 damage every turn).

So now my pretender is simply chasing down the routing armies, without them fighting back. IT took several turns before the enemy routed, and each turn I check my pretender and find it always at 277 HP.

Another unrelated queston. I wished for Doom Horrors, GoR them, then I send them into battle. They will attack on first turn, then usually do nothing the second turn and/or third turn, and sporadically attack the enemies for the following turns regardless of enemy types (even militias). This seemed rather strange, as they have no encumberance and always fatique at 0, so they can't be unconscious. Is this how they are suppose to be? Never seem other units behave this way...

Sorry for going OT on your AAR Arryn. Keep up the good work... tasty Ulmish troops, the wyrm must have very strong stomach acid to digest all the metals ^_^

-Gateway103

Norfleet

March 14th, 2004, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by Gateway103:
Sorry for going OT on your AAR Arryn. Keep up the good work... tasty Ulmish troops, the wyrm must have very strong stomach acid to digest all the metals ^_^
It's like eating a lobster. You crack them open, and then suck the insides out of the shell. Actually, I'm not a huge lobster fan.

I suppose now it's time for me to point out, "I told you so." I told you Ulm was up to no good.

condors

March 14th, 2004, 12:57 AM

Great writeup!

Arryn

March 14th, 2004, 12:06 PM

Gateway103:

I have noticed inconsistent regeneration by my pretender. Some rounds he'll regen and some he won't. (In his Last battle there was a 2-3 round stretch where there was no regen, with the damage level remaining constant -- very much against the odds as you've observed -- then it suddenly kicked in and from then on kept working as it should.) Does not appear to be any pattern. I have not reported it to IW, but I'm fairly sure there's a subtle bug in their code.

The wyrm uses the metals as "fiber" in his diet to keep "regular". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Norfleet:

Ulm was planning to attack the indies regardless, and we both knew it. What I've actually done is trigger a war with them where I wouldn't have had one otherwise for at least 3-4 more months at worst case. I decided to do what I did not because of your paranoid fears but because my main army was in a convenient place to smack them. Had Ulm not gone after Imictan on the same turn I did, there would have been no war. But, based on my experience with Vanheim at Man, once you contest a province with an AI, even if the AI attacks you and not the other way around, a state of war exists. So I thought it best to be prepared. I had no desire to war with Ulm, but neither do I relish their continuing to gobble up the "loose" provinces near me. So I struck first, and let the chips fall where they may.

Condors:

Thanks!

[ March 14, 2004, 10:19: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 14th, 2004, 07:01 PM

<center>Turn #39, Early Summer of Year 4
Growing pains.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

Priests are recruited in Melma, Herghendorf, The Promised Land, and Pythium. I raise the PD of Agenor by 1 (to 10), and of the Well by 3 (to 13). I raise 20 PD in each of the newly-conquered provinces of Gipha, Imictan, and Saeborea. A new temple is to be built in Agenor. These preparations drain the treasury of 1076 coins.

Taxes remain at zero in Agenor to finish quelling unrest there. I reduce the taxes of Man and Gipha to 60%, Imictan to 40%, and Saeborea to zero to quell unrest in these provinces.

The Ivy King Thomm continues a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem each month. The Norna Rimdriva alchemizes 4 nature gems into 2 astral pearls, then prepares to invoke the ritual of Acashic Record upon the province of Imictan, for which I allot all 25 of the astral pearls in the treasury. Two Seithkona each forge an Endless Bag of Wine, expending all 10 of my remaining nature gems. The Skratti Tunne forges another Clam of Pearls at a cost of 10 water gems. The Enchantress Ulga forges Winged Boots, for which I allot 5 air gems. The Enchantress Pladina, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges another Dwarven Hammer, at a cost of only 15 earth gems.

Swanuth the Firbolg, in command of 20 Jotun spearmen and 8 vine ogres, moves from Saeborea into the independent plains province of Isurian, ostensibly defended by a score of fanatics and light cavalry.

The priest Gunthamun, with 4 newly-summoned vine ogres, moves from the Black Alps to Saeborea. The commander Theag, in Ancyrna with 5 troglodytes, will rendezvous with Gunthamun in Saeborea.

Tahmar heads from Pythium to the Well, with the intention of picking up the half-dozen longdead giants the seithkona Urd is presently commanding.

My wyrm Jorgun will attack the Ulmish province of Arnbeg, which is reported to have approximately a score of black plate and heavy infantries.

The priest Arnold will move from Hoburgdorf to Imictan so as to be in position to erect a temple next month. The priest Amalarik, with an escort of 3 Jotun spearmen and 1 Jotun huskarl (spear-armed), heads out from Ashikaga to Herghendorf.

The priest Erkeborn moves from Kepess to Gipha, as does the priest Totila from Agenor.

Commander Stark moves from Agenor to take command of the fortress at Man.

Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with the priests Konrad and Donner (carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards), move west from Gipha to attack Vanheim's province of Betane. Four more priests from Agenor, and one from Man, will also rendezvous in Betane for the battle. Resistance is expected to amount to no more than a half-score of light infantry.

I split the main army in Ivenmoor into three smaller forces. Commander Ualgo (now carrying a Sceptre of Authority), with 19 Jotuns plus a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman, is to attack northwest into the plains province of Clon which Vanheim appears to be defending with only 7 light infantry. The priests Albrecht and Geiserek (carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards), presently with Rod the Firbolg's army in Gipha, will join Ualgo in the attack upon Clon.

Bove is given the Winged Boots that were forged Last month, and commanding 26 Jotuns, will attack northwards into the Ulmish plains of Wold, along with the priest named Erkeborn (carrying a Sceptre of Authority and with a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman).

My prophet Grymis takes command of the remaining 25 Jotuns, plus a bodyguard of one Jotun axeman, and moves northeast to attack the Ulmish forest-covered mountains of Kratas, where a score of barbarians and raptors await.

My plan is bold, striking Ulm simultaneously in three locations along my northern border before they can amass forces to threaten me, as well as striking Van at two other weak points along my northwest border, while they are momentarily preoccupied with fending off the Mictlani. And I continue my southward expansion before Arco or Pangaea can take the unclaimed provinces on that border.

Turn #39 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-39a.jpg) (1174x1002)

Norfleet

March 14th, 2004, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
The wyrm uses the metals as "fiber" in his diet to keep "regular". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
Maybe he hacks them up in big metal chainballs later, like cats hack up hairballs?

Ulm was planning to attack the indies regardless, and we both knew it.Well, yes, but still. Had you perhaps found a way to act faster, this COULD have been avoided. Or at least postponed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I decided to do what I did not because of your paranoid fears but because my main army was in a convenient place to smack them.Hey, don't mock my paranoia! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

My paranoia is a GOOD thing that has kept me alive over the years. If I was not as "paranoid" as I am, I would already be dead! Not to mention it serves me excellently in multiplayer, where human behavior is less predictable and safe than AI behavior.

So I struck first, and let the chips fall where they may.Striking first is always good. Helps one maintain the strategic initiative.

P.S.
Did you get my AAR compilations on the end of the Argitothian Empire?

Arryn

March 14th, 2004, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Maybe he hacks them up in big metal chainballs later, like cats hack up hairballs?That would bring new meaning to the idea of "projectile vomiting" ...

Had you perhaps found a way to act faster, this COULD have been avoided. Or at least postponed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You've been reading this AAR from the beginning. You know that wasn't really an option, unless I was willing to just let Vanheim have Man, which would have been stupid. Ulm didn't begin its land grab until I was already committed against Van. I redirected my largest army, and my pretender, as fast as I could. Had Ulm waited 1-2 more turns I would have been even more awkwardly positioned than I had been. And I am not in the habit of starting needless wars when I am already involved in other wars.

So, I could have ignored Van, the (now-ex) #1 power in the world and let them take Man, grow even more powerful, and permitted them to come right up against my richest provinces (the ones surrounding Ashikaga), for the sake of grabbing some indies which weren't important -- at that time -- that I was using as a buffer against Ulm. And preemptively starting a war with a third-rate nation like Ulm who had been totally passive until I went after Van. I don't think this was ever a reasonable consideration. Had I done this, you would be harassing me about Van instead of Ulm, and rightfully so in such a case.

Go back through the AAR and be my guest at finding an appropriate, auspicious moment when it would have been good to grab the indies and/or instigated a war with Ulm (while at the same time stopping Van, the by far more dangerous enemy) -- with the caveat of only using the knowledge available to me at the time, and not 20/20 hindsight. If you can do so, which I sincerely doubt, I'll be gracious enough to acknowledge your point. Otherwise, please give it a rest.

You were also harping on Atlantis a while back, and has been amply seen, they have plenty of other ... fish to fry. Had I taken Ministra (as I did Imictan) I would have had yet *another* war I didn't want and been in even worse position to deal with.

So far, *my* timetable and plan has been achieving what I feel are acceptable results, methodical or plodding as it may sometimes be. You may find new amusement in seeing (on turn #40) that I am now a tad overextended. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't, Mr. Devil's Advocate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Hey, don't mock my paranoia! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Why not? You're also the guy who pumps ridiculous amounts of gems into globals. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif These techniques of yours that perhaps serve you well in MP are unnecessary in SP. You have to keep the proper perspective about just what sort of game is being played, how good (or not) your opponents are. You and I both know full well just how aggressive (or not) the SP AI is. Just like you get a feel for your MP opponents, so you can react to each according to their weaknesses, so too is it fair to exploit the weakness of the SP AI (as compared to a human). We both know that many of the things I've been doing would be suicidal versus humans. I've always made that abundantly clear in this AAR, or at least I hope I have been, for the sake of the noobies. P.S.
Did you get my AAR compilations on the end of the Argitothian Empire? Yes, thanks, and I won't discuss it in this thread.

Norfleet

March 15th, 2004, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
You were also harping on Atlantis a while back, and has been amply seen, they have plenty of other ... fish to fry. Had I taken Ministra (as I did Imictan) I would have had yet *another* war I didn't want and been in even worse position to deal with.Totally untrue. I did not, in fact, harp about Atlantis. Charon was the one who mentioned Atlantis, briefly, which I would hardly call harping on it. I explicitly stated not to do anything to antagonize them, and that the independent provinces in question should be taken only if an opportunity presented itself, such as if Atlantis shuffled off and left the place open, as their generally large coastal presence already meant they could attack anywhere at any time, and as an aquatic race, you weren't in a position to do anything about it. I believe we were in agreement on the issue at the time.

I still, however, assert that given that I had been harping about the impending Ulmish situation for a goodly 6 turns, you could have done SOMETHING in that time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You did, after all, have your wyrm sit unproductively and unsuccessfully sieging the Fort Man for a goodly 4+ months. Surely that was enough time for a quick stopover.

However, what's done is done. Attacking Arnbeg and closing off that tiresome point of exposure is definitely a sound move.

Arryn

March 15th, 2004, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I still, however, assert that given that I had been harping about the impending Ulmish situation for a goodly 6 turns, you could have done SOMETHING in that time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You did, after all, have your wyrm sit unproductively and unsuccessfully sieging the Fort Man for a goodly 4+ months. Surely that was enough time for a quick stopover.Aha! Thank you. Now we finally get to where your view is coming from, which had me puzzled. This is where I feel you are mistaken. Just because the wyrm was not damaging the fortress walls did not mean that having him there was unproductive. Quite the opposite. I destroyed several armies from Man and Vanheim, and I denied Van the victory over Man, which was the entire point of why I was there. Furthermore, from Man it was (at that time) 5 full turns worth of movement to attack the indies along my border with Ulm. Five turns of wasted time moving versus destroying Man/Van armies. I knew it was faster and more productive to finish the siege and then Teleport, and that is what I did.

I apologize for mixing you and Charon up regarding Atlantis. I wrongly assumed it was you without actually re-reading the Posts. When I went back and reviewed maps, I did so from local JPGs, not by rereading Posts. Also being doped up on antihistamines, decongestants, NSAIDs, and whatnot to keep from drowning in my own juices is not conducive to good memory or good judgment. It's why you haven't seen turn #40 yet. As for Arnbeg, once I'm committed to a war, I can hardly not prosecute it to the fullest of my ability. To do less is to be foolish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

March 15th, 2004, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Five turns of wasted time moving versus destroying Man/Van armies. I knew it was faster and more productive to finish the siege and then Teleport, and that is what I did.I figured it would only be 4 turns of wasted movement. 1 to a lab, one to teleport to the target, 1 to build a new lab at the destination, 1 to teleport elsewhere. The same 4 turns you spent unsuccessfully sieging a fort, when you could have just let Vanheim and Man kill each other and cleaned up the mess afterwards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Originally posted by Arryn:
I apologize for mixing you and Charon up regarding Atlantis. I wrongly assumed it was you without actually re-reading the Posts. When I went back and reviewed maps, I did so from local JPGs, not by rereading Posts. Also being doped up on antihistamines, decongestants, NSAIDs, and whatnot to keep from drowning in my own juices is not conducive to good memory or good judgment. Don't feel too bad. I had to re-read the Posts to make sure you were definitely not correctly talking about me, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Senility is not conducive to good memory either.

[ March 15, 2004, 03:18: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

March 15th, 2004, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I figured it would only be 4 turns of wasted movement. 1 to a lab, one to teleport to the target, 1 to build a new lab at the destination, 1 to teleport elsewhere. The same 4 turns you spent unsuccessfully sieging a fort, when you could have just let Vanheim and Man kill each other and cleaned up the mess afterwards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif 3 to the nearest lab, Ashikaga, from Man. Just as easy to not bother with the lab and move straight to whatever target, if that target was 4-5 moves away. I had to waste 3 moves just getting anywhere else from Man. Or one move to get away, and a second move to build a lab. I chose to kill Vans and use the lab cost to build 6 more Jotuns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Plus, I really really wanted the damn air gems from Man. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

March 15th, 2004, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
3 to the nearest lab, Ashikaga, from Man. Just as easy to not bother with the lab and move straight to whatever target, if that target was 4-5 moves away. I had to waste 3 moves just getting anywhere else from Man. Or one move to get away, and a second move to build a lab. I chose to kill Vans and use the lab cost to build 6 more Jotuns. I can see your lab building habits don't closely resemble mine at all, then.

I like to keep labs within easy reach, because that way, my SC can simultaneously serve as a fast-response force to any such emergencies that crop up. The rest state of my SCs tends to always be at/near a lab, where I'm free to teleport/trapeze into any hotspot that requires attention. You probably view labs as something you build only for research and mage production. I tend to see them more as airbases.

Arryn

March 15th, 2004, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I can see your lab building habits don't closely resemble mine at all, then.

I like to keep labs within easy reach, because that way, my SC can simultaneously serve as a fast-response force to any such emergencies that crop up. The rest state of my SCs tends to always be at/near a lab, where I'm free to teleport/trapeze into any hotspot that requires attention. You probably view labs as something you build only for research and mage production. I tend to see them more as airbases. I normally don't play SCs, and it shows. BTW, I do build labs as "forward airbases", but typically 5-10 turns further into the game than I presently am, and likely not near to the degree that you do. I'm sure my approach thus far has been sub-optimal. It is, even by my own standards. I am, after all, still learning. OTOH, I'm also probably more risk-averse than you may be.

Norfleet

March 15th, 2004, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
I'm also probably more risk-averse than you may be. YOU? More risk-averse than me? BWAHAHAHA! I'll share with you this story on PM.

Trust me. There is no way in hell you are more risk-averse than me. I am the most overcautious, paranoid SOB that my friends have ever met.

Minrhael

March 17th, 2004, 03:01 PM

In an attempt to semi-recreate this AAR, just to sort of play along with similar choices and a few variances, some forced since I still only have the demo, I tried to start this game.

Every time I choose Utgard instead of starting with the Well of Uld or whatever it was, I always start with a Smoldering Crater or something like that which gives 5 fire gems and gives me Demonbred etc to recruit. Is this a problem in the demo, or am I just being REALLY stupid as I've tried it 4 times now and I'd swear I set everything right.

Sindai

March 17th, 2004, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Minrhael:
Every time I choose Utgard instead of starting with the Well of Uld or whatever it was, I always start with a Smoldering Crater or something like that which gives 5 fire gems and gives me Demonbred etc to recruit. Is this a problem in the demo, or am I just being REALLY stupid as I've tried it 4 times now and I'd swear I set everything right. This is a major known bug wih Version 2.08 of the game. The Utgard theme was totally broken. I guess Illwinter updates the demos to the current patch level as well...?

Arryn

March 17th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Sindai:
This is a major known bug wih Version 2.08 of the game. The Utgard theme was totally broken. I guess Illwinter updates the demos to the current patch level as well...? Yes, they do.

v2.08 came out over a month ago and Utgard (as well as at least one major spell) has been broken ever since. Had I known a month ago that IW would delay coming out with a fix I would have saved a copy of the v2.06 demo and posted it to my website.

Arryn

March 19th, 2004, 06:03 AM

<center>Turn #40, Summer of Year 4
Cat and mouse.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon Imictan reveals two magical sites: another Sun Ridge (2 fire gems), and a Mercury Pond (2 water gems).

Vanheim summons a score of Black Hawks using the ritual Call of the Winds to attack Agenor. No harm, no fowl.

Bove, commanding 26 Jotuns, attacks the Ulmish plains of Wold, along with the priest named Erkeborn (carrying a Sceptre of Authority and with a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman). The Ulmish defense consists of a commander of Ulm, a priest (PD), a master smith, 4 fanatics, 15 clockwork horrors, 5 crossbowmen (PD), and 8 sappers. The Jotuns, with ease, sweep away everything that stands in their way. By the end of the battle, only two sappers manage to elude Bove and his compatriots. The jubilant giants celebrate their victory by dismantling an Ulmish temple for a rock-throwing contest. Erkeborn discovers a Pool of Sanctity (1 water gem) while looking for a place to meditate.

My prophet Grymis, commanding 25 Jotuns, plus a bodyguard of one Jotun axeman, attacks the Ulmish forest-covered mountains of Kratas. The Ulmish defense consists of a commander, a priest (PD), a master smith, 2 black knights, 3 black plate infantry (flail), 9 infantry of Ulm (flail), 6 heavy infantry, 15 clockwork horrors, 5 crossbowmen, 5 crossbowmen (PD). The knights and horrors move forward to engage the giants while all the Ulmish armored troops remain at their rear guarding their priest and commander. After dispatching the resilient horsemen, and the horrors (who kill two of my giants in a small swarm of repeated blows), the Jotuns advance directly to the Ulmish rear, hot with vengeance for their fallen brothers. Tough as the Ulmish troops may be they are no match for Jotuns, and it does not take long before the giants are able to thrust forward and skewer the enemy leaders cowering behind their armored soldiers. The nearness of some woods at the rear of the field allows 1 black plate infantryman, 7 infantry of Ulm, 5 heavy infantrymen, and 3 crossbowmen to escape. Grymis instructs his Jotuns to construct a burial cairn for the fallen out of the masonry of an Ulmish temple they find.

A Mictlani force comprised of a tribal king, 6 warriors, and 20 slaves attacks Vanheim in Clon. The defense consists of a herse (PD), 4 huskarls (PD), 4 light infantry, 1 archer, and 1 crossbowman. The Mictlani easily rout the Vans to conquer the province. But the Mictlani occupation is very brief ...

Commander Ualgo (carrying a Sceptre of Authority), with 19 Jotuns plus a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman, plus the priests Albrecht and Geiserek (each carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards), attacks Clon. The Mictlani rout very quickly, and only their tribal king along with four of his warriors manage to escape the rapidly pursuing Jotuns.

It is unfortunate that Mictlan chose this month, the same time as I, to attack Clon. I can only hope that since Mictlan is fully engaged in our joint war with Vanheim, having just been struck by the strong Van army that just retook Ragdan, that they will choose not to try to retake Clon or otherwise attempt to cause me trouble over our unintentional clash.

Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with seven priests attacks Vanheim's province of Betane. The defense musters only 1 herse (PD), 15 black hawks, and 5 huskarls (PD). Six of the birds and all of the PD are slain. A Glen of Verdant Greenery (1 nature gem) is discovered while chasing the fleeing Vans.

My wyrm Jorgun attacks the Ulmish province of Arnbeg. Ulm musters a defense of 1 commander, 1 priest (PD), 1 guardian, 4 infantry of Ulm (w/shields), 6 barbarians, 3 sappers, 16 slingers, and 3 crossbowmen (PD). Jorgun dines upon a total of 1 commander, 1 priest, 3 infantry of Ulm, 5 barbarians, and 2 slingers, with the remainder of the Ulmish troops fleeing in abject terror.

Ulm counterattacks into my province of Ultima Typhia with a force of 1 commander of Ulm, 2 black plate infantry (w/shields), 1 black plate infantry (flail), 5 infantry of Ulm, 4 heavy infantry, 1 amazon, 3 crossbowmen, and 1 archer against my score of Jotun militia PD, led by a Jotun Jarl (PD) and Jotun Herse (PD). The only Ulms to survive and flee back into the mountains whence they came are 3 heavy infantrymen, and the four missile troops. The PD suffers a loss of 3 Jotun militia, who are immediately replaced by fresh volunteers.

Swanuth the Firbolg, in command of 20 Jotun spearmen and 8 vine ogres, attacks the independent plains province of Isurian, defended by 3 mounted commanders, 2 heavy cavalry, 8 light cavalry, and 12 fanatics. The only indy survivors, who flee never to be seen again, are a mounted commander, 3 light cavalrymen, and 4 fanatics.

One of my scouts in Ulmish territory is discovered while moving into the coastal province of Lish and is killed while attempting to elude pursuit.

This month I have expanded my realm by a half-dozen provinces, razing two Ulmish temples and depriving Vanheim of yet one more magical site in the process, and slain a number of Ulm's costly armored troops, as well as two of their precious master smiths, at a cost of only 2 Jotun spearmen lost.

Yet despite this success I am troubled, for Ulm still threatens my northern provinces, from Herghendorf to the Well, with three separate threescore-strong armies, any of which might overwhelm my provincial defenders by sheer weight of numbers. My greatest advantage, should they counterattack before my mobile forces can crush them, is the resiliency of my Jotuns in battle, for my troops are stronger, tougher, and more motivated than those of my foes.

Of greater concern than Ulm's three armies are two even larger armies from Vanheim. A fourscore-strong Van force has taken the Atlantian mountains of Nifel, just southwest of Man, and I expect that they will soon fall upon the fortress of Man. Atlantis will no doubt retaliate against Vanheim, but not before the Vans have made much mischief for me. More dangerous still is the fivescore-strong Van army of light troops at the Pillar of the World, poised to recapture Beltane and perhaps move to rampage in the wastes to the east of Man, or worse, link up at Man with the army from Nifel. These two Van armies are without a doubt suffering from massive starvation, but they remain dangerous nonetheless.

I am playing a game of cat and mouse with my enemies, yet I am unsure who is the cat and who is the mouse.

Turn #40 overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-40.jpg) (1174x1002)

My researchers expect to achieve mastery of the fourth level of Alteration and the eighth level of Construction by the end of the month.

My realm has:
 ___9 Dominion max. __24 Temples __45 Provinces converted 1101 Treasury. 1997 Income. (+227) _666 Upkeep. (+2) 34 Provinces controlled Isurian: Dom=1, PD=0, Unr=7 Saeborea: Dom=6, PD=20, Unr=5 Jotunheim: Dom=9, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=7, PD=20, Unr=2 Eribon: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=8, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=6, PD=20, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=6, PD=20, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=7, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=9, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=8, PD=20, Unr=1 Agenor: Dom=1, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=5, PD=20, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=9, PD=13, Unr=0 Arnbeg: Dom=4, PD=0, Unr=15 Herghendorf: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Imictan: Dom=5, PD=20, Unr=0 Gipha: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Betane: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=10 Ivenmoor: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Clon: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=11 Kratas: Dom=0, PD=0, Unr=9 Wold: Dom=-3, PD=0, Unr=10
Gem income is:
 +10 Fire (18) +_7 Air (10) +14 Water (22) +_7 Earth (14) +25 Astral (24) (includes 18 Clams) +_3 Death (10) +12 Nature (11)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration* 7-Evocation 7-Construction* 6-Enchantment 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 342 RPs (of 408 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 19, 2004, 04:43: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

March 19th, 2004, 06:10 AM

Well, as I always say, in a game of cat and mouse, it's always best to be a duck....with an M-14.
Cats, mice, the duck with an M-14 trumps them all.

[ March 19, 2004, 04:10: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

March 19th, 2004, 06:15 AM

Why does this bring on a mental image of Daffy Duck?

Norfleet

March 19th, 2004, 06:19 AM

No idea. I don't think Daffy Duck ever had an M-14.

SATANS PAWN

March 19th, 2004, 07:53 AM

BORING !

>>>THE HORNED KING<<<

Norfleet

March 19th, 2004, 08:00 AM

I'm going to use short words so you can understand me:

IF THIS IS BORING YOU, WHY ARE YOU READING IT?

Arryn

March 19th, 2004, 10:39 AM

<center>Turn #40, Summer of Year 4
Cat and mouse.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I raise 10 PD each in Clon, Wold, Arnbeg, and Isurian. I raise 20 PD in Kratas, and raise the PD of the Well by 4 (to 17). New temples are to be built in Gipha, Imictan, and Saeborea. These preparations drain the treasury of 1092 coins.

The taxes of Agenor, Man, Gipha, Imictan, and Saeborea are raised back to normal. Taxes are lowered to 90% in Isurian, 80% in Arnbeg and Kratas, and 70% in Betane, Clon, and Wold.

Six nature gems are converted via alchemy into three astral pearls, two of which are then further transmuted into an earth gem.

The Ivy King Thomm continues a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem each month. The Norna Rimdriva prepares to invoke the ritual of Acashic Record upon the province of Arnbeg, for which I allot all 25 of the astral pearls in the treasury. The Enchantress Pladina, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges another Dwarven Hammer, at a cost of only 15 earth gems. The Skratti Tunne, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges a Clam of Pearls at a cost of only 7 water gems. The Wizard Retheric forges another Clam of Pearls at a cost of 10 water gems. A Seithkona forges another Endless Bag of Wine, expending all 5 of my remaining nature gems. The Enchantress Kara will cast Fires from Afar upon the forces of Vanheim at the Pillar of the World, consuming 10 of the fire gems in the treasury.

Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 2 vine ogres, along with seven priests (five of whom each have Sceptres of Authority and a bodyguard of one vine ogre apiece), abandons the just-conquered province of Betane and moves south to defend the fortress of Man from possible assault.

Ualgo (carrying a Sceptre of Authority), in command of a company of 19 Jotuns plus a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman, together with the priests Albrecht and Geiserek (carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards), will attack west into the mountain province of Banded Hills which Vanheim appears to be defending with twoscore archers and light infantry. Assuming a successful battle, Ualgo will be well-positioned to recapture Betane, should it prove necessary, or to establish a forward fortification from which to continue the campaign against Vanheim.

The priest Totila moves from Gipha to Clon. From Heghendorf, the priest Alfred moves to Wold, while the priest Amalarik moves to Kratas. The priest Hermann moves from Melma to Arnbeg, and the priest Alaric moves from Pythium to Isurian.

Bove, commanding 26 Jotuns, will attack northwards into the Ulmish mountains of Bergamum, along with the priest named Erkeborn (carrying a Sceptre of Authority and with a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman). A successful battle will place Bove directly south of the capital of Ulm. Of more immediate interest is the destruction of the Ulmish temple in Bergamum, and its measly five amazonian defenders.

My prophet Grymis, commanding 23 Jotuns, plus a bodyguard of one Jotun axeman, moves east to attack the Ulmish forest-covered mountains of Validun, where as many as 70 slingers, amazons, infantry of Ulm, and black plate infantry may await. My prophet's force will be outnumbered and perhaps even outmatched, but my dominion extends into Validun and I am confident that Grymis shall prevail.

My wyrm Jorgun will attack the Ulmish forest of Dendra Nigra, which is reported to have approximately 50 bone fiends and slingers.

Swanuth the Firbolg, in command of 20 Jotun spearmen and 8 vine ogres, moves from Isurian to the independent farmlands of Helmshire, ostensibly defended by twoscore fanatics, archers, and heavy infantry. Joining them in the battle will be commander Theag from Saeborea, with 5 troglodytes and a bodyguard of 4 vine ogres.

Turn #40 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-40a.jpg) (1174x1002)

Norfleet

March 19th, 2004, 11:17 AM

I find your upkeep costs a little worrying at present. Have you looked at it?

Arryn

March 19th, 2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I find your upkeep costs a little worrying at present. Have you looked at it? Huh? As of turn 41 (which I have not posted yet) my upkeep has been unchanged for the past 3 months and my income has increased by 30% (by over 500g). It doesn't get much better than that. And my largest gold producers are unthreatened by my enemies, so I'm in no danger of losing any significant income. I don't worry about gold until my upkeep exceeds 50% of my income, which it's never come close to doing thus far in this AAR. Of all the things I might worry about at present, gold doesn't make it on to the top 5 of my list. Sure, you can never have too much, but I've been blowing my cash as fast as it comes in to build up PDs and temples. I very rarely bank gold.

EDIT: and if you're alluding to the turn #40 cost, I'm not a believer of Christian superstition. It's just a number.

[ March 19, 2004, 09:46: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

March 19th, 2004, 11:43 AM

That wasn't my point. It's just that it so happens your upkeep costs of this turn amount to $666.

Kelan

March 19th, 2004, 03:39 PM

Another weapon you can give a commander that normally just stays in the back is the Rod of the Phoenix. It costs quite a bit more than the Sceptre, but has the spell Incinerate that has a 100 precision and can hit from anywhere on the battlefield it seems.

I haven't had a chance to try the Sceptre of Authority yet to see how they compare, but Last time I played Arco and had lots of extra fire gems lying around, I put the rods on my Strategos commanders whom I normally keep out of battle to use their standard bearer ability to keep troops fighting. Armed with the rods and quickness boots, they could do some real damage from long range that helped turn some battles for me. Once in a while they would even take out enemy commanders towards the beginning of the battles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Also, the Incinerate spell on the rod would only take 5 fatigue per cast. I am not sure if that is normal or not, but it is a lot less than the spell of the same name.

fahdiz

March 19th, 2004, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
EDIT: and if you're alluding to the turn #40 cost, I'm not a believer of Christian superstition. It's just a number. Easy, easy, easy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Norfleet was just making a little joke.

Arryn

March 19th, 2004, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by Kelan:
Another weapon you can give a commander that normally just stays in the back is the Rod of the Phoenix.Thanks for the suggestion. I'd already planned to make them. At the time I was equipping some of my priests with Sceptres I lacked the gem income to build Rods in significant quantities. Sceptres = 5 gems, Rods = 20 (now 15 w/Hammers). The Rod is considerably more effective than the Sceptre. I've used them before and they are pretty much auto-kills for most normal units. And a priest with one is almost like the Energizer Bunny, he keeps killing and killing. The 5 fatigue per is standard for magical items, but in the case of the Rod, it means a lot of kills before the wielder has to rest. Only castle sieges might Last long enough for that to happen.

LintMan

March 19th, 2004, 07:30 PM

Arryn: I just finished reading through your AAR from the beginnning, and I want to say: Thanks! The level of detail in which you cover all aspects of the campaign has been very educational and interesting for me.

Some questions I'm curious about:
- A few turns back, all the shield colors on your game maps changed colors - You can change them mid-game with that mod?
- Didn't you create a Bane Lord or some other undead nasty a while back? I don't recall seeing him mentioned for a while now (unless I'm forgetting things). What is he doing now?
- You don't have a lot of death gem production, but have you considered either using what you have to do a few death site searches to boost you income, or using them to produce a horde of spirits you could use as part of a war on Atlantis?
- IIRC, a few times, you mentioned a province having a VP, making it likely to have magic sites. What is a VP?
- Have you considered using mercenaries at all? Do you not like them? It seems like they could be a pretty good value in some cases. I don't recall you mentioning them at all here.

Norfleet: Have you at all considered writing an AAR for an undead campaign, maybe from an MP game? I gather from what you've written here that the strategy for the undead is very different, so I think it'd make for a very educational read.

[Edit - added mercenary question I had forgotten in include originally]

[ March 19, 2004, 17:56: Message edited by: LintMan ]

Arryn

March 19th, 2004, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by LintMan:
Arryn: I just finished reading through your AAR from the beginnning, and I want to say: Thanks! The level of detail in which you cover all aspects of the campaign has been very educational and interesting for me.Thanks! Just remember that I've made various mistakes along the way, and that I'm exploiting several weaknesses of the AI, which may or may not be applicable in other games.

- A few turns back, all the shield colors on your game maps changed colors - You can change them mid-game with that mod?Yes, provided that you had already begun the game with the mod loaded, and that you overwrite the original mod icons with the new ones. If you manually edit the .dm file to point it to another icon directory with the newer icons, that should also work. The key thing is that the name of the .dm file must not change. The original Unwise mod and V'ger's updated one do NOT have the same mod and .dm names. I'm using the V'ger icons with a manually-editted Version of the original Unwise .dm file.

- Didn't you create a Bane Lord or some other undead nasty a while back? I don't recall seeing him mentioned for a while now (unless I'm forgetting things). What is he doing now?Heh. That's pretty sharp of you to notice. His name is "Ashsoul the Bane Lord", and he's parked on his butt at Jotunheim. I prematurely summoned him way back, presuming I would grow my death gem income which I've been unable to do thus far. I have more commanders than I have troops, so he's patiently sitting idle until I find a use worthy of him.

EDIT: one such use which I've neglected until now is to make Fever Fetishes and give him one ...

- You don't have a lot of death gem production, but have you considered either using what you have to do a few death site searches to boost you income, or using them to produce a horde of spirits you could use as part of a war on Atlantis?Gah. The Last thing I need right now is a war with Atlantis. I could scout the provinces on my list for Acashics for death first (which would be faster). I hadn't considered that. It wouldn't have made a difference until this past turn (#40) as it wasn't until I began my war against Ulm that I captured any provinces that will have death sites in them. Thanks for the suggestion, and I'll implement it as part of my turn #41 orders. It's too bad that the death site search spell costs 3 gems and not 2 like most of the other paths.

- IIRC, a few times, you mentioned a province having a VP, making it likely to have magic sites. What is a VP?Victory Point

- Have you considered using mercenaries at all? Do you not like them? It seems like they could be a pretty good value in some cases. I don't recall you mentioning them at all here.Yes, I have considered it. And they can be useful at times. I'm kicking myself for getting so wrapped up in defending my border with Ulm (spending all my gold on PD) that I overlooked Orion and his knights were available Last turn (#40). Vanheim hired them. That's a mistake that will soon come back to bite me, HARD.

[ March 19, 2004, 19:11: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Gateway103

March 20th, 2004, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kelan:
Another weapon you can give a commander that normally just stays in the back is the Rod of the Phoenix.Thanks for the suggestion. I'd already planned to make them. At the time I was equipping some of my priests with Sceptres I lacked the gem income to build Rods in significant quantities. Sceptres = 5 gems, Rods = 20 (now 15 w/Hammers). The Rod is considerably more effective than the Sceptre. I've used them before and they are pretty much auto-kills for most normal units. And a priest with one is almost like the Energizer Bunny, he keeps killing and killing. The 5 fatigue per is standard for magical items, but in the case of the Rod, it means a lot of kills before the wielder has to rest. Only castle sieges might Last long enough for that to happen. <hr /></blockquote>Here is a thought for making more use out of your fire gems based on your gem income at turn 40, may or may not be foolish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

To get more use out of the preciou few Rod of Phoenix you may forge out of your limited fire gems, you may consider giving the lucky pyromanic Energizer Bunnies a Boot of Quickness and possibly an Amulet of Resilience (for reinvigoration 5).

While neither of these equiptment are cheap gem-wise given your current gem income (W22,N11), they really make those bunnies go the distance. With just BoQ, you'll kill 2 each turn, with enough fuel to go for 10 turns. With the Amulet also, you'll extend the effectiveness to 2 kill/turn for 20 turns, and then 1 kill/turn for the rest of the battle (effectively giving you 2+ rods, but spreading the cost among 3 gem types. Too bad you can't use these 2+ virtual rods at different places simultaneously...) And if you are lucky, some of them may even pick up Heroic Quickness with all the firework http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

This way you can reap the benefit of the Rods without mass producing them (your fire gem income is 18, which means it'll take 2 turns to make just a Rod, without alchemy of course. So you can't really mass producing them yet)

Just a thought http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

-Gateway103

[ March 20, 2004, 07:25: Message edited by: Gateway103 ]

Norfleet

March 20th, 2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by LintMan:
Norfleet: Have you at all considered writing an AAR for an undead campaign, maybe from an MP game? I gather from what you've written here that the strategy for the undead is very different, so I think it'd make for a very educational read.I've considered it, but there's a few obstacles to doing this:

#1: I'm old, and I have a long beard. If I don't write it while I still remember it, I'm not going to remember it in any detail.

#2: I tend to play games that run at a fair clip: It's a little difficult to gather enough to do an accurate reporting, although I did PM the final turns of "The Revenge" to Arryn. If Arryn wishes to help compile them, perhaps editting some of my snarkier comments out, that'd be fine by me, as the game is now more or less over.

#3: I rarely play undead Ermor in SP in anything other than test games. It's too much like napalming fish in a barrel.

Gandalf Parker

March 20th, 2004, 06:36 PM

Keep in mind people that there are alot of ways to do an AAR. Some prefer a more RPG Version with comments from the god and reports from scouts, planning sessions with generals and maybe even some chewing outs. Others prefer a more strategy-game format. Blow-by-blow with discussions about unit stats and less use of names in referring to commanders or provinces. And of course some are somewhere in-between. We arent all going to agree on the style we like but since some will like and find it useful then its a desired AAR.

Personally Ive been debating trying one myself. Online. Lots of links to captured images of the map, battle replays, scoreBoards. I dont think Im disciplined enough to do either strategy or RPG by itself. I will probably bounce back and forth but if I use italics to refer to out-of-roleplay comments then that seems to be kindof standard. Actually I think the standard seems to be to use regular text for whatever style you would use the most, and italics to mark whichever style is lesser. In my case I think RPG would be dominant.

SATANS PAWN

March 20th, 2004, 06:55 PM

This AAR (just my opinion) was not that good. Maybe next time.

>>>THE HORNED KING<<<

[ March 23, 2004, 04:16: Message edited by: Zen ]

Gandalf Parker

March 20th, 2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by SATANS PAWN:
This AAR (just my opinion) was not that good. Maybe next time.
I think maybe this AAR is not your preferred style. I would suspect that any AAR of Arryns is likely to also not meet your preferred style. It also probably wont be neccessary to jump in each time to let us know that.

Since you didnt mention what you felt would be more to your liking Im afraid that I cant point to other AARs here that you might enjoy but feel free to read them all and stick with the ones you find enjoyable.

[ March 20, 2004, 17:29: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Shudson66

March 24th, 2004, 06:49 PM

Hey Arryn,

Wonderful, AAR, I recieved my copy of DOM2 two weeks ago. I was just getting killed everytime. Mostly due to laziness and missing things I should not have. But after reading this AAR and taking some of the advise you Norfleet, Zen and others have posted here I finally won a game as the Jotuns. Now I am trying one as the ACRO with higher AI levels. Once again thanks and keep up the good work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Wyatt Hebert

March 25th, 2004, 03:20 PM

I would also like to chime in with congratulations for Arryn on this wonderful AAR. The rp'ing ones are nice, but sometimes (especially for us new players) the pure strategy element is nice.

I'm thinking of starting a newbie AAR (i.e. an AAR from a completely acknowledged neophyte) in the hope that I can get pointers in the middle of the game that might prompt some good strategy commentary from the experienced crowd... something like a 'simulator' run in a more advanced setting, with the older players (and I mean more experienced http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) acting as the training officers.

If it would work as planned, I would imagine it could be a good read for new players.

Also, Arryn, with the risk of making this go even slower, I'm thinking of the possibilities of explaining more often why you are doing certain things. Personally, I haven't looked at the screenshots, but I think I'm going to need to so as to fully comprehend the situation, tho I'm learning the Orania map quite well, actually.

Anyways, good job, and keep it coming.

I'll post more often now that I've read the whole thing. It's taken me a week or more of hit-and-run reading to finish this! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Wyatt

Arryn

March 25th, 2004, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Shudson66:
Wonderful, AAR, I recieved my copy of DOM2 two weeks ago.Thanks! And congrats on your new addiction. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I was just getting killed everytime. Mostly due to laziness and missing things I should not have. But after reading this AAR and taking some of the advise you Norfleet, Zen and others have posted here I finally won a game as the Jotuns.I understand what you mean. I, too, get annoyed when I forget to move a unit (in my haste to get to the next turn), or I don't anticipate the need for more supplies, or I research something and/or cast a spell that I then cannot make good use of at the time. From reading the AAR you'll have seen me make all these mistakes, and more than once. Heh, it's particularly annoying when one makes these mistakes in public for everyone to read about. Which is why I try to point out when I make them so that all of you reading the AAR won't make them yourselves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

March 25th, 2004, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Wyatt Hebert:
I would also like to chime in with congratulations for Arryn on this wonderful AAR. The rp'ing ones are nice, but sometimes (especially for us new players) the pure strategy element is nice.Thanks for the praise, Wyatt, and for your perseverance in reading the whole thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I strongly urge you to go forward with your own AAR. IMO, you can not have too many newbie AARs, and certainly never too many if they are well-written (informative and interesting).

With regards to my AAR, you do need to look at the screenshots to get a feel for the overall strategic situation. It's one thing for me to describe that I will attack province X containing Y numbers of enemies with Z number of my troops, and another to actually see what it looks like on the map with the relative army strengths. You can also see ALL the potential enemy threats, some of which I sometimes won't mention in the text because I know that they can be seen on the screenshots.

I will endeavor to try to go into even more detail as to why I do some of the things I do (and when I do them). One example that you may wonder about is why I've researched schools in the order I have. I'll make a special post about the choices I've made in this regard to fill you (and others) in on it.

Arryn

March 25th, 2004, 05:53 PM

I just wanted to notify all of you faithful AAR readers that I will be gone from the forum starting Sunday 28 March until mid-April. I have to travel out of state to go take care of my elderly mother (82) who'll be undergoing shoulder surgery (to repair torn ligaments) next week. The AAR will resume after I return home. (My mother has no Net connection, and the town she lives in has no publically-accessible Net connections where I could hook up my laptop -- in case anyone's curious as to why I won't be posting while I'm away from home.)

Try not to go into AAR withdrawal during the 2.5 weeks I'm away. Go nag Peter or Charon or any of the other good AAR writers to post a few more turns of their AARs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

April 17th, 2004, 07:03 PM

FYI: I'm back ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Gateway103

April 17th, 2004, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
FYI: I'm back ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Welcome back ^_^ Hope everything is alright.

-Gateway103

Norfleet

April 17th, 2004, 08:05 PM

Woo! Arryn's back! So how did your trip to Mexico go?

Good news for you: You can finally patch without having a Mangled Utgard theme. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 17, 2004, 19:30: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

April 18th, 2004, 03:20 AM

Originally posted by Gateway103:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
FYI: I'm back ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Welcome back ^_^ Hope everything is alright.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks. My mom is doing well (for an 82-year-old, that is). Myself, I'm unwinding from the 16-hour non-stop drive home, and I'm dealing with the lingering effects of 3 weeks of Internet-deprivation (I'm an Online world/national news junkie). As soon as I catch up on the forum Posts from the past 3 weeks, and get some more sleep, I'll get back to my game.

Arryn

April 18th, 2004, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Woo! Arryn's back!It's sweet to be missed. Thanks. Have you been behaving yourself in my absence? (If so, shame on you.)

So how did your trip to Mexico go?Mexico? Ick. Mexico is one notch below the mid-east on my list of places to avoid travelling to. Where did you get such a silly idea? (Rhetorical question, no need to answer.)

Good news for you: You can finally patch without having a Mangled Utgard theme. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Saw that. I've applied the patch. I'm looking forward to getting back to playing Dom once I've waded through the past 3 weeks worth of forum postings.

Norfleet

April 18th, 2004, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
It's sweet to be missed. Thanks. Have you been behaving yourself in my absence? (If so, shame on you.)That is a very subjective question. The answer to that question has since been deleted.

Mexico? Ick. Mexico is one notch below the mid-east on my list of places to avoid travelling to. Where did you get such a silly idea? (Rhetorical question, no need to answer.)Well, given the information you provided, regarding lack of Internet and general primitiveness, as well as your known location, I figured you were talking about Mexico.

Saw that. I've applied the patch. I'm looking forward to getting back to playing Dom once I've waded through the past 3 weeks worth of forum postings. Excellent. Maybe you can finally join a game. We sort of need some fresh meat on the channel.

Arryn

April 18th, 2004, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Well, given the information you provided, regarding lack of Internet and general primitiveness, as well as your known location, I figured you were talking about Mexico.Well ... a small town on Florida's east coast is pretty primitive when compared to Houston, the fourth-largest city (by population) in the U.S., but they do have broadband. My mother, OTOH, cannot even learn how to operate a VCR (nevermind setting a VCR clock) ...

Excellent. Maybe you can finally join a game. We sort of need some fresh meat on the channel. I refuse to be thought of as "meat". hmmph! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Norfleet

April 18th, 2004, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
I refuse to be thought of as "meat". hmmph! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Well, join us on the gamesurge IRC channel anyway. Try your hand at putting an end to my reign terror there....meatbag. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 18, 2004, 08:05: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

April 18th, 2004, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
I refuse to be thought of as "meat". hmmph! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Well, join us on the gamesurge IRC channel anyway. Try your hand at putting an end to my reign terror there....meatbag. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Lamely trying to goad me into it won't work. That cheap trick only works on folks with testosterone ...

Next time, try vanity. Not that you'll have any better luck, but it might amuse me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

April 18th, 2004, 06:15 PM

Bah! I shouldn't have to "goad" you into it, you should want to play on your own! Where's your sense of motivation and love of the game?

Arryn

April 18th, 2004, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Where's your sense of motivation and love of the game? Do a word count on my Posts in this (AAR) thread and then think about just how silly that question is ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

April 18th, 2004, 11:11 PM

Maybe. But you haven't showed anything of the sort since you got back from Mexico.

Arryn

April 19th, 2004, 01:31 AM

<center>Turn #41, Late Summer of Year 4
Biting off more than I can chew?</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon Arnbeg reveals two magical astral sites: a Painted Cave (1 pearl), and a Maze (2 pearls).

Marignon defeats over a score of amazons to retake the indy province of Polgrave.

Swanuth the Firbolg, in command of 20 Jotun spearmen and 8 vine ogres, attacks the independent farmlands of Helmshire, defended by 2 commanders, 10 heavy infantry, 23 fanatics, and 22 archers. Joining in the battle is commander Theag with 5 troglodytes and a bodyguard of 4 vine ogres. The trogs carve a swath of death through the center of the indies, despite being the target of unrelenting volleys from the enemy archers. The combination of the firbolg and trogs proves to be irresistable and the indies soon rout. Only a half-score fanatics, infantry, and archers escape the field, only to be hunted down and killed later.

Vanheim, with over two-score troops, easily slaughters Caelum's four PD in Emryc.

Ualgo (carrying a Sceptre of Authority), in command of a company of 19 Jotuns plus a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman, together with the priests Albrecht and Geiserek (carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards), attacks the mountain province of Banded Hills which Vanheim defends with only 4 PD, 8 archers, and 8 black hawks. The enemy archers rout immediately after releasing but a single volley, and the Jotuns eliminate the PD and hawks with contemptuous ease. My victorious priests raze the Vanheim temple.

My wyrm Jorgun finds only 5 PD hiding in the Ulmish forest of Dendra Nigra, which soon become a very light snack.

My prophet Grymis, commanding 23 Jotuns, plus a bodyguard of one Jotun axeman, attacks the Ulmish forest-covered mountains of Validun, which is defended by 2 commanders of Ulm, a priest (PD), 3 infantry of Ulm (flail), 1 heavy infantry, 18 raptors, 9 slingers, and 5 crossbowmen (PD). Only 2 infantry of Ulm and 9 raptors escape my Jotuns, who suffer no losses of their own.

Bove, commanding 26 Jotuns, attacks the Ulmish mountains of Bergamum, along with the priest named Erkeborn (carrying a Sceptre of Authority and with a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman). The defenders number 1 priest (PD), 3 nightmares, 4 amazons, 1 sapper, and 6 crossbowmen (PD). Bove single-handedly kills the nightmares and sapper, and 3 of the amazons fall to the advancing Jotuns, who lose of their number (mainly due to wounds sustained in earlier battles). Only a single amazon escapes to carry word of their defeat back to Ulm. As my troops raze the Ulmish temple they discover a Copper Cliff yielding magical gems (1 earth and 1 fire).

Orion and his Eternal Knights are in the employ of Vanheim, and located in the province of Welrydh (NE of the Pillar of the World). These very powerful mercenaries, which I absentmindedly neglected to hire at my peril Last month, now threaten to recapture Banded Hills and possibly cause me much further mischief. I can only hope that Vanheim commits another strategic mistake (greater than my own in not hiring Orion) and directs this formidable force against Mictlan instead of against me.

My realm grew by another 15% this past month, but I am stretched dangerously thin. I am gambling on the timidity of my opponents, a little luck, and my strong PD to hold on to these gains. It is not a strategy that would work were my opponents more aggressive or had more foresight.

Other activity of note in the world:
 Atlantis takes Aole from Vanheim. Vanheim takes Fucan from Atlantis. Vanheim takes Sleepy Mountains from Mictlan.
Turn #41 overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-41.jpg) (1174x1002)

My researchers achieve mastery of the fourth level of Alteration and the eighth level of Construction magics, and expect to achieve mastery of the fifth level of Alteration by the end of the month.

My realm has:
 __10 Dominion max. __27 Temples __45 Provinces converted 1418 Treasury. 2145 Income. (+148) _664 Upkeep. (-2) 39 Provinces controlled (border provinces listed below) Isurian: Dom=1, PD=10, Unr=5 Helmshire: Dom=4, PD=0, Unr=20 Saeborea: Dom=7, PD=20, Unr=4 Ultima Typhia: Dom=9, PD=20, Unr=1 Well of All Waters: Dom=10, PD=17, Unr=0 Arnbeg: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=9 Betane: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=10 Banded Hills: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=27 Dendra Nigra: Dom=1, PD=0, Unr=22 Clon: Dom=-1, PD=10, Unr=1 Validun: Dom=1, PD=0, Unr=11 Kratas: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=1 Wold: Dom=-3, PD=10, Unr=0 Bergamum: Dom=-3, PD=0, Unr=17
Gem income is:
 +11 Fire (19) +_7 Air (17) +14 Water (19) +_8 Earth (08) +30 Astral (28) (includes 20 Clams) +_3 Death (13) +12 Nature (12)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration* 4-Alteration* 7-Evocation 8-Construction 6-Enchantment 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 304 RPs (of 408 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ April 19, 2004, 01:24: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

April 19th, 2004, 04:35 AM

You've mentioned that you feel stretched a little thin. Perhaps, in order to avoid the feeling of biting off more than you can chew with both hands, you should seriously consider your rapid response capability. While your armies appear to be meeting with victory, armies are not terribly mobile.

Looking over your research situation, I see you can build any item you want, if you can scrounge the forgers, and your gem economy is reasonably healthy.

Do you have any Air mages of any level, and perhaps a Water+Earth mage? A Bane Lord equipped with a Wraith Sword, flying boots, and Jade Armor will give you that rapid response ***-kicking you need, at a bargain price, that can be upgraded for better asswhooping through the use of a lucky pendant and/or Wraith Crown. Perhaps you should get one today?

Arryn

April 19th, 2004, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
While your armies appear to be meeting with victory, armies are not terribly mobile.Indeed. Unless the army is composed of angels, or better yet, a vastness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Do you have any Air mages of any level, and perhaps a Water+Earth mage? A Bane Lord equipped with a Wraith Sword, flying boots, and Jade Armor will give you that rapid response ***-kicking you need, at a bargain price, that can be upgraded for better asswhooping through the use of a lucky pendant and/or Wraith Crown. Perhaps you should get one today? My best air mage is 3A, which I am bootstrapping to 5A by items which I am building. All my best commanders already have flying boots, so that aspect has been taken care of (part of the reason why my armies are taking no or very few casualties).

I lack any W+E mages, which makes making the Jade Armor a bit hard to do. Do you have a suggestion for fixing this, besides spending gold to buy mages until I get lucky? (I am able to forge the alternative combo of Stymphalian Wings and Boots of Quickness, but it will take me a few turns to amass the gems.) Another problem is my anemic death gem income (which should be somewhat remedied in the next couple of turns by the orders I'd already issued for turn 41 prior to my recent hiatus from the forum).

Graeme Dice

April 19th, 2004, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Do you have a suggestion for fixing this, besides spending gold to buy mages until I get lucky?Well, there's always jade amazons, which are just about my favourite independents to find. I second the bane lord choice, as they are extremely good at what they do.

Arryn

April 19th, 2004, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
Do you have a suggestion for fixing this, besides spending gold to buy mages until I get lucky?Well, there's always jade amazons, which are just about my favourite independents to find.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks for the tip. Alas, I haven't found any as yet, nor have I observed any of my opponents fighting any indy ones.

I second the bane lord choice, as they are extremely good at what they do. Indeed they are. Which is why I already have one (Ashsoul, who's currently sitting in Jotunheim).

Norfleet

April 19th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Buy mages until you get lucky is always a reasonable deal. You could always use more research. Even if you don't get the one you want, you're still increasing your research output.

pole_shift

April 19th, 2004, 09:01 PM

Indeed they are. Which is why I already have one (Ashsoul, who's currently sitting in Jotunheim).hmmmm... "Ashsoul" eh?

I think I would change the name.

(try saying it 3 times quickly)

[ April 19, 2004, 20:02: Message edited by: pole_shift ]

Arryn

April 19th, 2004, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by pole_shift:
hmmmm... "Ashsoul" eh?

I think I would change the name.

(try saying it 3 times quickly) I like it just fine as is. It suits him, I think. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

LintMan

April 20th, 2004, 04:39 AM

For part of a mobile response force, perhaps consider summoning a pack (or more when you can afford it) of draconians? They're upkeep free (according to the summons list I checked, anyway), and the Chief can summon more draconian allies for *free* (I love free!) while he's waiting around.

Norfleet

April 20th, 2004, 07:15 AM

The drawback to that is that draconians are simply unimpressive: They are weak and easily killed. The single aforementioned Bane Lord would beat the snot out of the aforementioned Draconians. What good are they as a fast response when they are unable to kill the offending intruder they're responding to with any degree of certainty?

LintMan

April 20th, 2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
The drawback to that is that draconians are simply unimpressive: They are weak and easily killed. The single aforementioned Bane Lord would beat the snot out of the aforementioned Draconians. What good are they as a fast response when they are unable to kill the offending intruder they're responding to with any degree of certainty? I haven't found them to be *that* weak, but that's why I said "*part of* a mobile response force". Put on attack rear, they can be good for taking out mages and commanders. In my (albiet limited) experiece, I had more problems with them routing than with them getting killed.

I agree they certainly don't replace a tricked out bane lord SC, but they use different gems, so you can have both. If nothing else, the draconians can soak up some of the abuse that would otherwise be directed at your bane lord and keep him from getting completely mobbed.

Do you think draconians are entirely not worth the gems? Perhaps my perception of cost effectiveness is skewed because Last game, I found a nifty 30% or 40% conj bonus site, which I exploited ruthlessly.

Arryn

April 20th, 2004, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by LintMan:
Do you think draconians are entirely not worth the gems?Considering their fragility, I do not think they are worth 45 air gems, especially given my current gem income ... and the fact that I already have a Bane Lord. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

April 21st, 2004, 01:03 AM

<center>Turn #41, Late Summer of Year 4
Biting off more than I can chew?</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I raise 10 PD in Beltane, Validun, Dendra Nigra, Helmshire. I raise 20 PD in Banded Hills, raise the PD in Wold by 10 (to 20), and raise the PD in Isurian by 2 (to 12). New temples are to be built in Clon, Wold, Kratas, and Isurian. These preparations drain the treasury of 1408 coins.

The taxes of Betane, Clon, Wold, and Kratas are raised back to normal. Taxes remain at 90% in Isurian, and 80% in Arnbeg. Taxes are lowered to zero in Banded Hills, and lowered to 80% in Validun, 60% in Dendra Nigra and Helmshire, and 50% in Bergamum.

The Ivy King Thomm continues a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem each month. The Norna Rimdriva prepares to invoke the ritual of Acashic Record upon the province of Dendra Nigra, for which I allot 25 of the astral pearls in the treasury. The Skratti Tunne, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges a Clam of Pearls at a cost of only 7 water gems. The Wizard Retheric, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges another Clam of Pearls at a cost of only 7 water gems. Seithkona cast Dark Knowledge upon the provinces of Kratas, Wold, Clon, and Validun, expending almost all of my precious death gems. The Enchantress Pladina forges a Fever Fetish, at a cost of 5 fire and 5 nature gems. The Enchantress Sade forges a Fever Fetish, at a cost of 5 fire and 5 nature gems. The Enchantress Kara will cast Fires from Afar upon the forces of Ulm at Minz, consuming the remaining 9 fire gems in the treasury, plus 2 astral pearls (via alchemy). The Enchantress Petrona, using a Dwarven Hammer, forges a Bag of Winds at a cost of only 15 air gems.

Swanuth the Firbolg, in command of 20 Jotun spearmen, 12 vine ogres, and 5 troglodytes moves from Helmshire to Eribon. Tahmar, with six longdead giants, moves from the Well to rendezvous with Swanuth at Eribon. Commander Theag moves from Helmshire to Black Alps. The Bane Lord Ashsoul moves from Jotunheim to Black Alps.

My wyrm Jorgun will attack The Second Forest, which is reported to have approximately threescore archers, infantry of Ulm, crossbowman, black plate infantry, and raptors. This should finally eliminate the Ulmish threat to my mage enclave at the Well.

My prophet Grymis, commanding 23 Jotuns, plus a bodyguard of one Jotun axeman, moves northeast to attack the Ulmish plains of Dun Vale, where as many as 50 slingers, raptors, and sappers reportedly await.

Bove, commanding 25 Jotuns, along with the priest named Erkeborn (carrying a Sceptre of Authority and with a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman), will attack northwestwards into the Ulmish plains of Cuna Eral held by an estimated twoscore heavy infantry and archers.

Rod the Firbolg, leading a company of 18 Jotun spearmen, along with two priests moves from Man to the Rim Mountains in order to defend against a likely attack from Vanheim's forces in Fucan.

Commander Ualgo (carrying a Sceptre of Authority), leading of a company of 19 Jotuns plus a bodyguard of one vine ogre and one Jotun axeman, together with the priests Albrecht and Geiserek (carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards), will attack from Banded Hills west into the plains province of The Pillar of the World. Vanheim reportedly is defending with only a score of light infantry and archers. My position along this front with Vanheim is precarious, especially with Orion's mercenaries close by in Welrydh, so I intend to move out of Orion's likely path while at the same time do a bit of raiding and temple-razing. If I am fortunate, I may be able to distract Vanheim into chasing my force with Orion, which is preferable by far to having Orion raiding my western provinces.

Five priests (each carrying a Sceptre of Authority, and with a bodyguard of one vine ogre apiece) attack westwards from Man into the plains of Momephe, which Vanheim appears to be holding with a score of light infantry and black hawks.

Priest movements: Gunthamun moves from Saeborea to Helmshire. Hermann moves from Arnbeg to Ivenmoor. Arnold moves from Imictan to Validun. Clodomir moves from Agenor to Betane. Adolf moves from Agenor to Man.

Turn #41 plotted movement (http://www.dominions-2.org/images/aar-41a.jpg) (1174x1002)

Norfleet

June 23rd, 2004, 10:09 PM

I notice you haven't updated your AAR for a very long time. Did the patch mutilate your game, or have you simply not been playing Dom2 lately?

Arryn

June 24th, 2004, 02:28 AM

I have not applied 2.12 as yet. I've both been too busy to play Dom, and I've also been waiting to see if there are any hidden, nasty, surprises in the 2.12 patch that might cause me grief, when I do get back to doing the AAR.

Scott Hebert

June 24th, 2004, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
I have not applied 2.12 as yet. I've both been too busy to play Dom, and I've also been waiting to see if there are any hidden, nasty, surprises in the 2.12 patch that might cause me grief, when I do get back to doing the AAR. Not that I'm any expert on the subject, but my game patched without a flaw, and I'm using a pre-2.12 VQ.

I would like to see your AAR continued. My AAR is a pale imitation of yours.

Arryn

June 24th, 2004, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
Not that I'm any expert on the subject, but my game patched without a flaw, and I'm using a pre-2.12 VQ.

I would like to see your AAR continued. My AAR is a pale imitation of yours. VQs aside, once bitten, twice shy. I was bit badly on the 2.08 patch. So I'm in no hurry whatsoever to apply 2.12 until I'm quite sure that it won't adversely affect my game.

Perhaps your imitation of my AAR is 'pale' because your pretender is a blood-sucking *****? heh
Regardless, thanks for your compliment, and imitation is even more sincere flattery.

Scott Hebert

June 24th, 2004, 02:13 PM

VQs aside, once bitten, twice shy. I was bit badly on the 2.08 patch. So I'm in no hurry whatsoever to apply 2.12 until I'm quite sure that it won't adversely affect my game.Yes, I remember the 2.08 fiasco.

Perhaps your imitation of my AAR is 'pale' because your pretender is a blood-sucking *****? hehHey, it's BF Ulm? Who better to use a VQ?

Regardless, thanks for your compliment, and imitation is even more sincere flattery.You're quite welcome. Between my AAR and various statistical projects I have going on, I'm busy enough.

Inigo Montoya

July 30th, 2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by Scott Hebert:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Perhaps your imitation of my AAR is 'pale' because your pretender is a blood-sucking *****? hehHey, it's BF Ulm? Who better to use a VQ?
<hr /></blockquote>Scott, I think you missed Arryn's point. She wasn't giving you a hard time for using a VQ. She was exceedingly clever about your AAR being a pale comparison. The reason your AAR was pale (as in white or exhibiting pallor) is because of the blood-sucking action of your VQ. She was ribbing you about blood loss.

Get it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Edited for grammer]

[ July 30, 2004, 17:22: Message edited by: Inigo Montoya ]

Inigo Montoya

July 30th, 2004, 06:20 PM

Double post.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 30, 2004, 17:21: Message edited by: Inigo Montoya ]

Arryn

July 30th, 2004, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Inigo Montoya:
Scott, I think you missed Arryn's point. She wasn't giving you a hard time for using a VQ. She was exceedingly clever about your AAR being a pale comparison. The reason your AAR was pale (as in white or exhibiting pallor) is because of the blood-sucking action of your VQ. She was ribbing you about blood loss.Heh, I was wondering how long it'd take for someone, anyone, to comment on that. Gee, it only took 5 weeks ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

EDIT: sometimes (okay, maybe a lot) I'm too clever for my own good.

[ July 30, 2004, 17:41: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

July 31st, 2004, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Heh, I was wondering how long it'd take for someone, anyone, to comment on that. Gee, it only took 5 weeks ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

EDIT: sometimes (okay, maybe a lot) I'm too clever for my own good. I thought it was obvious and required no comment.

Arryn

July 31st, 2004, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I thought it was obvious and required no comment. Since when did that ever stop you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Norfleet

July 31st, 2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Since when did that ever stop you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Never. But there wasn't anyone for me to mock, ridicule, or otherwise make fun of, nor anything for me to rant about, so what was the point?

Arryn

July 31st, 2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by tinkthank:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Norfleet:
But there wasn't anyone for me to mock, ridicule, or otherwise make fun of, nor anything for me to rant about, so what was the point? You are hilarious. I love the way you take your persona (in the old-fashioned Latin sense of the word) so seriously. Keep it up! <hr /></blockquote>It's what's most endearing about the old curmudgeon.

tinkthank

August 1st, 2004, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
Since when did that ever stop you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Never. But there wasn't anyone for me to mock, ridicule, or otherwise make fun of, nor anything for me to rant about, so what was the point? <hr /></blockquote>You are hilarious. I love the way you take your persona (in the old-fashioned Latin sense of the word) so seriously. Keep it up!

Arryn

August 12th, 2004, 05:33 PM

FYI, I'll be resuming the AAR shortly after Shrapnel fixes the bug with embedding HTML code in Posts. Hopefully, the fix won't be long in coming.