Jotunheim:Utgard AAR [Archive]

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 07:38 AM

I thought I'd try my hand at providing an AAR, which may help folk who are even newer to the game than I am (I've been playing for about 5 weeks, give or take).

I suffered an embarrasing defeat in a MP Friday night where I learned that dual-bless pretenders, which work nicely in SP games, will kill you in MP due to the bad scales you have to take to get them. Zen was gracious and patient enough to explain to me in detail (using lots of comparisons and a Socratic-style method of asking probing questions) just why this is so, but that's a topic for another thread. He was thoughtful enough to guide me through the design of a new pretender, that should have a far better chance of putting up a credible showing in my next MP game. Not having anything better to do until such a time, and being possessed of a highly-developed sense of curiosity (that's a polite euphemism for 'impatience'), I decided to begin a SP game to 'test' this pretender, and what is for me a radically different approach to playing Dom 2. More on why as we get into the game itself.

Without further ado, we begin:

I have loaded the mods for Improved Light Cav (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/Improved%20Light%20Cavalry.zip) (I won't be using any, but this should give the AIs and the Indies a minor boost towards making my life more challenging), Mighty Militia (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/militia.zip) which converts those arguably useless militia into religious fanatics, which are more useful, and can be quite tough to face (as we will soon discover), the Temporary Caelum Cold Fix (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/coldcaelum.zip) which I hope is self-explanatory, and Lastly, the excellent Ashikaga Shogunate (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom2/ashikaga.zip) mod which replaces T'ien Ch'i with what I consider a much more challenging Japanese nation (the Samurai are tough).

The next step is to begin the creation of the pretender. Following the discussion I had with Zen, I select the nation of Jotunheim (one of the 3 nations I'm most familar with) and I select the Wyrm (one of my Favorites) as my pretender. Saber Cherry's Melee Power Rankings Chart (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=74;t=000776) ranks it as the 'best' combat pretender (a score of 99.1%), and for good reason as I've come to learn on my own over the past few weeks. The Wyrm has the following stats:
 160 HP (excellent!) 11 Protection (mediocre, but we can overlook this) 17 MR (good) 26 Strength (excellent!) 18 Attack (good) 8 Defense (sub-par, but we can overlook this too) 50 Leadership (he'll be mainly a SC, but high ldr doesn't hurt) 2/10 movement (not as good as the Son of Niefel, my other favorite, but we'll have to make do)Special Abilities are:
 Regenerates Causes Fear (+0) (we will be boosting this) Amphibian (will come in handy versus the sea nations, eventually) Poison Resistant 100% 2 fang attacks with lethal venomSlots:
 Head, Head, Misc, Misc
Slots are pretty much his only weakness, especially as a SC. Since his attacks will be biting, the loss of the 2 hands isn't so bad. Not being able to buff him with armor or boots is a minus, but not as bad as one might initially think, once he's properly tricked-out with the right spells. Still, I'll miss those Boots of Quickness I'm rather fond of.

I name the critter 'Jorgun' as I'm in a hurry, can't think of anything better, and desire to get on with twiddling scales and such.

<center>continued next post</center>

[ April 18, 2004, 02:24: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 08:20 AM

Having thus selected the form in which our God will manifest in the earthly realm, I proceed to select my avatar's abilities and influences (scales). For Magic, I give the God Astral-4. Zen had recommended Astral-5, but I decide to spend the difference on scales. Astral is chosen because we will be using some no-gem-cost spells from the Alteration and Enchantment schools that are quick to research (levels 1-3 in each) to provide all the buffs that our SC pretender will need in the early game. Later on, Astral will allow us to quickly move across the map via Teleport or Gateway, or to summon some of my favorite Arch Angels and/or Harbingers (which I find useful in SP, but not likely so in MP).

For scales I select:
 3 Order
(we will need lots of gold to recruit the numbers of giants and casters we plan to use) 3 Productivity
(armored giants require lots of resources) 2 Cold
(the preferred scale for Jotun) 0 Growth 2 Misfortune
(we have to pay for the good scales somehow, and this is it) 2 Magic
(we will be doing a LOT of research, quickly)I toyed with the idea of taking Growth 1 / Magic 1, or Growth 1 / Misfortune 3, but I decided that I really wanted the magic boost and Luck -3 was just too much to pay for Growth.

I then select the Utgard theme (25 points) because I want the Nornas (which give a 15% chance, each, to avoiding bad events in the province they are in) and I prefer Seithkonas to the (cheaper, but less flexible) Iron Woods theme's Vaetti Hags. The Seithkonas will be my main researchers, and also my primary battlefield support in the early to mid game.

I select the 80 point castle because we will need all the resources we can get, and the admin value of 40 will do just that. With the remaining points we have, I increase Dominion as much as I can (to 5).

Having completed the design of my realm and godly attributes, I assign a password to my pretender (though the game will be SP, I intend to use the same god in a MP game in the near future), and move on to selecting the game map and my AI opponents.

<center>continued next post</center>

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 09:21 AM

For opponents, I enable all AIs except Ermor (other AIs don't handle Ermor well) and C'tis (which I dislike because they always seem to be the first to cast a global enchantment, usually Burden of Time, and I'd rather not gear my whole effort towards countering just them), and I set them all to 'difficult'.

I then select the basic Orania map, which is the map I'm most familar with. Orania is large enough to accomodate all the AIs I wish to use, has no fixed starting positions (unlike the world map, AFAIK), and wraps in both vertical and horizontal directions. The only change I make to the basic game settings before I begin play is to set the independent strength to 5. The default strength of 3 is just too easy to overcome. If you are a new player, I advise that you leave it at 3 until you are more familiar with whatever nation you are playing. Finally, I must select a name for the game I have created, and I do so.

At long Last (well, it seems that way after all this writing) I am ready to take up my role in The Ascension Wars of Orania.

I select Play from the Dominions main menu and I am greeted by the words: "In the beginning, there was Chaos" and "Now the wheel has turned once again." and I cannot help but think about the chaos which is about to be unleashed upon the world as I strive to bring order and harmony to the multitudes of heathens and followers alike. I must eradicate the plethora of false gods which lead astray the creatures of my world, and do so as quickly as possible, so that my Dominion may encompass all lands and seas.

<center>continued next post</center>

condors

February 8th, 2004, 09:41 AM

very nice read, looking forward to updates

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 09:44 AM

<center>Turn #1, Spring year 1
Forces gather, plans are laid.</center>
Having pondered my task, I consider the modest forces that have gathered for the start of this momentous mission. I have:
 Jorgun, my avatar, embodied in a Wyrm. Bdvar, a saavy Jotun Scout. Bove, a tough Jotun Herse and leader of 8 Jotun Axemen.These loyal followers of mine are ensconced within the castle of Jotunheim (map province #67), which sits at the eastern tip of a small mountainous peninsula which juts southwest into the eastern end of one of the world's 2 great bodies of water. I have the benefit of being located in a mountainous province for improved resources, but the distinct drawback that I must fight my way up the peninsula, regardless of what opposition might lay before me, to reach the prosperous river valleys to the northwest and east with their high income farmlands. I suspect I am in an inauspicious position. I do not consider expansion directly into the sea at this time, as my troops are unable to follow my Wyrm into the water, should my avatar need assistance. My direction being rather clear, I begin my plans.

My realm begins with:
 400 Treasury. (standard start) 223 Income. (decent) 104 Resources. (modest) 357 Supplies. (most bountiful)I make it known that it is my divine desire that a Jotun Gode, a Jotun Spearman, and 2 Jotun Huskarls armed with spears are to heed my call to arms for the forthcoming foray on the peninsula. For the spreading of the announcement I provide 300 of the 400 gold coins in the treasury.

Jorgun takes direct control of the axemen from Bove, as Jorgun's morale of 30 means he will likely be the Last to break in a battle. It is always rude if your commander routs while the troops are still fighting, and I intend to prevent that from happening to me. I set my avatar to research within the school of 'Alteration', my short-term goal being the acquisition of the knowledge of how to cast the spells of Personal Luck, Barkskin, and Eagle Eyes.

Having set my avatar to his duties, it remains that I explore the provinces to my north to see what forces I shall face when I begin my campaign. To this end, I command Bdvar to make his way, stealthily, into the mountainous province of Iron Range (#79), which runs like a spine down the middle of what I am already thinking of as my peninsula.

All orders having been issued, I await the results. The march of time moves on to a new month.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 08, 2004, 07:46: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 8th, 2004, 09:46 AM

I'd like to point out that, from personal experience, the most important value of a long-run SC will be his encumberance and slottage. The Wyrm, while very powerful in a short engagement, which is the melee combat rankings are based on, with his encumberance of 4, will prove to be somewhat limp-wristed in an all out battle, particularly if you can't break the opposing army through Cause Fear. Many, many times I've had an SC fall not through loss of hitpoints, but because he passed out like a big sissy and lay there like a useless sack of potatoes until the opponent beat him to death. This has led to my conclusion that a quality SC should have a low or no encumberance. With an encumberance of 4, and 2 bites per round, your Wyrm's maximum kill potential is about 50 enemies before he passes out into the dirt. This will probably be less, because you'll lose fatigue from pre-battle buffing, and because your enemies are surely not likely to be so obliging as to always be hit, always die in the first hit, and always be gathered together in a single square that you can chomp on them with both of your bites. Not to mention that poison is time-release damage, which will likely lead to a lot of cases of "beating a dead horse", as your Wyrm chomps an opponent who's already doomed anyway.

It should also be noted that another disregarded factor in the melee ranking of a combat pretender chassis is the spells you actually buff yourself with, and the use of items. Your Wyrm's item selection is going to be rather limited. I'm guessing you plan on a Horror Helmet or two, and the Amulet of Resilience? Let me know how it goes, and if my prediction of the Wyrm passing out into the dirt from his encumberance rating comes true. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 09:50 AM

I have previously played a Wyrm in a Jotun SP game, and in a R'lyeh SP game. In neither one have I ever had my pretender pass out. The enemy always routs before that can happen.

This game I'm writing the AAR for is already on turn 18. I have a lot more writing to do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Stay tuned ...

February 8th, 2004, 09:54 AM

If you look at the theme that she is playing Norfleet, it has easy access to Relief. Early in the game the Wyrm may have it's limitations (only being able to instagrab certain provinces alone, including water) but late game it is not affected by the common "encumberance" issue, simply because the nation's mages support it. The nation and the pretender can both teleport so there is no reason that when the Wyrm is running around, he doesn't have a chance of a Relief or two.

Norfleet

February 8th, 2004, 09:55 AM

Relief is nice, although those hanging mages do have a tendency to get killed when your pretender becomes distracted by the oncoming hordes and they swarm past him....and kill your squishy mages, leaving your poor pretender hanging out there alone to pass out. Plus there's no guarantee that your mages will continue to cast relief with sufficient regularity, once your script runs out.

Then again, maybe I'm just used to playing on a high independent strength, where the passing out problem early on becomes much more severe, and the late game is filled with that many more unbreakable units that won't flee in terror when you scream "Boo!" at them, and have to all be killed the old-fashioned way.

[ February 08, 2004, 08:05: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

February 8th, 2004, 10:03 AM

Relief effects everyone on the battlefield regardless of where the mage is. You can put mage(s) in the very back corner who are casting Relief. You can also have them have Returning on them so you don't waste them if you have a sudden fear (from say a Howl, though more than likely you will be doing the howling) of getting attacked at the back.

A Wyrm doesn't quite accumulate fatigue as fast as something that tramples. I doubt you'd need more than 1 or possibly even 2 Reliefs to keep him in good working order.

Unless you are trying to say that the Wyrm is supposed to be a standalone combatant, which he can be, if you pick different paths than Astral.

[ February 08, 2004, 08:04: Message edited by: Zen ]

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 10:10 AM

This is my first astral-only Wyrm. My previous ones have been W9S4, typically. I'm trying the good scales and weaker pretender for a change. So far, I like what I've seen.

As far as mages getting munched on at the rear, besides Returning, there's also Body Ethereal and Astral Shield. Not much gets past that combo. And you can stack a lot more defenses on a mage than that. Not to mention that unlike the Wyrm, mages have hands, feet, and body slots.

Norfleet

February 8th, 2004, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
As far as mages getting munched on at the rear, besides Returning, there's also Body Ethereal and Astral Shield. Not much gets past that combo. And you can stack a lot more defenses on a mage than that. Not to mention that unlike the Wyrm, mages have hands, feet, and body slots. Hmm, yes, Astral Shield. A nice spell, in theory, although I've found it DOES actually promote several rather irritating problems.

Astral Shield, as you know, causes people attacking you to pass out. This is potentially quite handy, but can backfire horribly in one way:

Paralyzation, as you know, is the bane of SCs. When an SC is standing out there alone, he tends to get slammed with everything, and sooner or later, he's going to fail a paralyzation MR save, even with all the best antimagic gear and spells you can stick on him.

He will then spend the rest of the battle as a useless, immobile lump. All is not yet lost, though, as you may have done any number of things, like slap a Charcoal Shield or a Ritual of Returning on him, and he may very well be able to continue thumping people through passive shielding, perhaps even the accursed Astral Shield....

Until that Astral Shield causes one of your opponents to pass out. Assuming nobody is successful in popping your SC, which I've found may often happen, eventually, everyone starts routing. Obviously, your SC is unable to rout, being that he's paralyzed or passed out cold. This means the "is routing" light will flash several rounds until the OTHER side starts their "is routing". Now, ordinarily, this would hand you the victory and leave your SC alive: However, your opponent, too, has become paralyzed or permastunned: So he can't finish routing either, and eventually the battle just goes back and forth as both sides continue to be "are routing". Eventually, a safeguard built into the game, apparently to prevent infinite loops like this, kills everyone. The opponent loses a few units of minimal value. You lose your SC.

Besides, paralyzed/stunned opponents can't hurl themselves to a fiery doom on fire shields. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You're bring along astral mages as your baggage train for your SC, presumably if you're teleporting him....which is almost a must, as, at least for me, I use SCs primarily as fast-response forces to an AI incursion: With normal moving forces, you'd be chasing him around forever and never catching him, or having to second-guess his next move. Quite the pain. With an SC teleport drop, you can land on him and wipe him out. Unfortunately, sooner or later, one of your Astral mages is going to likely pop off a paralyze, when your SC becomes paralyzed.....

And so it begins.

February 8th, 2004, 10:38 AM

Not really, it can work in that fashion if you don't plan on it. I wouldn't teleport a SC into the midst of 300+ troops without a force to back it regardless of my intent. Though that is my playstyle. On the other hand, if a mage is scripted to cast Raise Skeletons it will more than likely keep casting it. Thus providing you with more than enough hands to kill those paralzyed creatures.

Of course; this is supposed to be an AAR, not Norfleet's reasons why he has had issues with Astral Shield and/or Wyrms because of his playstyle.

Norfleet

February 8th, 2004, 10:48 AM

Agreed. Let's see how Arryn does with it.

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 01:48 PM

<center>Turn #2, Late Spring of year 1
Forces continue to gather.</center>
Travellers from afar bring word that an Ulmish Commander has been appointed as the false prophet of the pretender Ninhursag, while word also reaches us that another false prophet, a Storm General of Caelum, speaks for the pretender Gina. I take no real note of this for now, as my attention is focused on the lands around me. The doom of those heathens is fated.

My faithful Jotun Scout, Bdvar, has successfully sent back a report that the mountain province of Iron Range is occupied by pagans defended by what he estimates to be roughly a score of light cavalry. I make a note to myself to try to confirm this figure over the coming weeks, as mortals often exaggerate, or worse, do not grasp all that there is to see. I do not let this affect my, limited, trust in Bdvar, and I order him onwards to reconnoiter the province of Black Alps (#86) at the base of my peninsula. Black Alps is the source of the river that feeds the fertile farmlands of Ancyrna (#90) northwest of the mountain chain in the Jotun Peninsula, and should be one of the early targets to be brought into my realm.

Peasants also bring me reports that the neighboring plains of Gwyrth (#76) to the northeast are said to be defended by a mixed force of two-score pagan fanatics and archers, while the coastal plains of Zenthra (#72) to my west harbor thirty light and heavy footsoldiers. I make note of this as well and resolve to gather more information.

I am pleased that the Jotun Gode Grymis has heeded my call, bringing with him a pair of Huskarl bodyguards and a spearman to bolster my small, but potent, force of Jotun giants. I reward Grymis by allowing him to contest with Bove, the Herse, to become my prophet. I will pretend to consider the matter carefully over the next few weeks while I continue to research the magics of 'Alteration', but in truth I favor Grymis and have already decided. I have other plans for Bove.

My realm has:
 290 Treasury. 223 Income. (unchanged) 104 Resources in the capital. (unchanged)I make it known to the Fates that I desire the favor of a Norna, and I order Bove to seek out another pair of worthy Jotun Spearman. For this, I have my subjects prepare a suitable offering, which drains the treasury of 280 coins.

There is nothing further to be done, but await the results of my studies and explorations.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

Pillin

February 8th, 2004, 03:37 PM

Really like your writing style for this aar!
My only consern is that you might get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome if you keep this length for every turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 03:37 PM

<center>Turn #3, Early Summer of year 1
The War against Pythium begins.</center>
Travellers from afar bring word that a Pythium Snake Lord has been appointed as the false prophet of the pretender Kanuka, while word also reaches us that a Vanjarl speaks for the pretender Antu. The knowledge that the kin of my beloved Jotuns have been led astray makes me seethe, but I, as yet, do not know where they reside so bringing them back into the fold must wait. My own heralds have gone forth to proclaim the elevation of Grymis, who shall no longer be known as "the Gode" and shall henceforth be known as "the Prophet". My Dominion has spread from my castle out as far as the borders of the snake-pretender's land, throughout the entire Jotun Peninsula, and even into the Wailwind waters to the south.

Bdvar, my Jotun Scout, observes quietly as the pagans of the Black Alps, numbering 3 commanders, 11 crossbowmen, 9 light and 4 heavy footmen repulse an attack by Pythium forces comprised of a sole centurion, a standard-bearer, 15 velites, and 9 hastatus. The morale of the centurion breaks after Pythium's forces suffer losses of half of the velites, and the snake-worshippers flee the field of battle under continued fire from the pagan's crossbows. The pagan's losses of 4 light and 1 heavy infantry will only make easier my conquest of them of few months hence.

I am pleased at this, and with the apparent weakness of Pythium's attack, though the concerns I had about my position on this peninsula are confirmed. I shall have to be careful, though every day that delays my rightful ascension, and the banishment of all false gods, pains me. Bdvar is also able to report to me that Pythium's citadel (#96) lies just to the northeast of Black Alps, while the lush delta of Saeborea (#65), at the mouth of two rivers, lies directly south of Pythium and southeast of the Alps.

The Norna Lit, possessing the skills of second circle astral, third circle death, and first circle nature mage, has accepted the generous offerings of my people and come forth to lend her aid. She takes over my studies in the magics of 'Alteration' as I muster the giants from their barracks and prepare them to march!

My realm has:
 188 Treasury. 223 Income. (unchanged) 104 Resources in the capital. (unchanged)I command that one of the local wise women, a Seithkona, be found so that she may assist Lit, and I further command that 3 more Jotun Spearman be readied for future battle. For this, I provide 180 coins.

My army of thirteen giants, led by my avatar Jorgun, plus the Prophet Grymis and Herse Bove, set out for the plains of Gwyrth, and destiny.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Pillin:
Really like your writing style for this aar!
My only consern is that you might get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome if you keep this length for every turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Thanks! And I already have CT in my left hand (for real). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Pillin

February 8th, 2004, 03:44 PM

Oh.. Im sorry to hear that. I hope you didnt find my comment offencive then, it was in no way intended to be.

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Pillin:
Oh.. Im sorry to hear that. I hope you didnt find my comment offencive then, it was in no way intended to be. It wasn't, and I never even remotely thought it might be intended as anything other than praise. Thanks again.

Bossemanden

February 8th, 2004, 04:23 PM

Nice! A new AAR. Very detailed and well written.
Show those heretics from Pythium what an attack should look like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 05:02 PM

<center>Turn #4, Summer of year 1
The first taste of victory.</center>
Travellers from afar bring word that a High Inquisitor of Marignon has been appointed as the false prophet of the pretender Ita Kama, while word also reaches us that a Priest King of Mictlan speaks for the pretender Gugalanna. My Dominion has spread into the lands of Ancyrna, while the strength of the faith has risen to 30% in Iron Range, and 20% in Gwyrth, Black Alps, and the Wailwind Waters. Some lay priests in the temple of Jotunheim are found to be selling favors, but I overlook the practice, for now, despite the heresy and weakening of the faith within the city, as my attention is focused on the conflict with Pythium, and the practicalities of extra coin are somewhat useful.

Bdvar continues to observe quietly as Pythium once again assaults the pagans of the Black Alps. This time, Pythium's force contains their false prophet Philomelium, the mercenary illusionist Obscuro, a centurion, a standard-bearer, 16 velites, and 12 hastatus. The pagans can only field their 3 commanders and 11 crossbowmen, as all their footmen were either killed or fled the battle in the previous month. The presence of the false prophet dramatically tips the battle in Pythium's favor, as his Sermons of Courage prevent a repeat of the Last battle's ignominious defeat. Pythium takes over the province with a loss of only 4 velites. I am not pleased by this, but it does not come as a surprise. I feel that Bdvar can be more useful moving on, so I have the scout make his way towards Saeborea to the southeast.

As I had suspected, the reports of the forces in Gwyrth were not entirely accurate. In this instance overestimating the enemy by 17%. I am faced with only a half-dozen archers, five heavy and 23 light infantry, led by three commanders and a priest. The smaller than expected number of archers delights me. My stalwart giants, along with my avatar, make short work of the lightly armored footmen, shrugging off the two arrows that find their marks throughout the battle. The heavy footmen have no stomach for the carnage and rout before ever being engaged, as do the crossbowmen and leaders once the light troops are no more. Most satisfactory. Bove distinguishes himself in the battle, making 4 kills and acquiring 8 trophies, and is bestowed heroic toughness (+3 to protection, raising it to 20!). My avatar claims 6 kills and 7 trophies. The plains of Gwyrth are mine! I note that there are some 13 malcontents, angry at losing loved ones in the battle and stirring up dissent, but I expect that with the passage of time this will abate on its own. As I cannot spare my giants to round up these misguided souls, I leave them be.

My troops are blooded and have acquitted themselves beyond my expectations, suffering no losses, and I am justifiably proud of them. But the celebration is brief, as the false prophet of Pythium and his force are just a short distance away in the Black Alps, and preparations must be made.

The Seithkona Fulla (possessing the skills of first circle astral, first circle death, and first circle nature mage) comes to the castle to aid the Norna Lit. The first rank in the school of 'Alteration' is mastered and studies continue towards the next rank in that field. My avatar can thus now cast Personal Luck, which I script him to prepare before he enters battle.

My realm has:
 __2 Provinces 151 Treasury. 255 Income. (+32) 114 Resources in the capital. (+10)I command that another Seithkona be found to assist Lit, as well as 2 more Jotun Spearman be readied for future battle. For this, I provide 150 coins.

My victorious army, in high spirits, sets out for the Black Alps, and a reckoning with the false prophet of Pythium.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

EDIT: Gwyrth unrest

[ February 11, 2004, 14:29: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 8th, 2004, 05:57 PM

BTW, I'd like to interject a note of caution here. After Zen explained to me the unfortunate probabilities that having only Astral-4 risks when being confronted by Mind Duels, I must say that my decision to lower Astral to 4 in order to take an additional magic scale (to L2) is not what I would have done had I to do it over. I will likely get away with it in SP (and I have in the past), but against a human opponent I strongly advise that you take Astral-5 (or higher) if you try to build a pretender similar to my Wyrm. Don't say you weren't warned! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

gibson

February 8th, 2004, 06:22 PM

Nice post so far. I'm looking forward to reading future turn reports.

Pillin

February 8th, 2004, 06:38 PM

Have you considered going for cold 3 for the extra points? this wont hurt you as much as it will hurt all the others bar the cold 3 nations. Besides the temperatures swing a bit, so you might end up actually getting your prefered cold 2 more often http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Scott Hebert

February 8th, 2004, 07:55 PM

I must say I also really enjoy this AAR. While others may be a little more poetic, the direct applicability of all of the information provided is very useful to new players like me.

While I think of myself as a rather good strategy player, I have never thought of giving a SC pretender magic skills based on the spells it allowed him to cast in combat. You have certainly broadened my mind in that regard, and I would like to thank both you and Zen for doing so.

Bayushi Tasogare

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by Pillin:
Have you considered going for cold 3 for the extra points? this wont hurt you as much as it will hurt all the others bar the cold 3 nations.-5% gold and -10% supplies will hurt me more than my enemies. The gold in the early game is critical, and the supplies later on when my armies are large. Giants eat a lot, and Bags of Wine, etc. can only do so much. I did consider it, and in my previous games, before Zen opened my eyes a bit, that's exactly what I did. But so far in this game (I'm up to turn 18, though the AAR is only as far as 4), not going for Cold 3 has been working rather well.

You asked a great question, which I'm sure a lot of beginners are curious to know about, and is a point that is subject to debate. If I took the Cold 3, then the points gained might be spent on:
 Magic increase to 3 (I already have more than enough fast magic research) Misfortune reduce to 1 (tempting, but I prefer the gold; my nornas will help me to reduce misfortune in my capital, which is the key province) Growth to 1 (does not make up for the loss of gold due to cold) Astral from 4 to 5 (I should have taken 5 anyway. But this is not the fix for that. I'll make do with items to boost my skill.) Dominion increase (5 is enough to start, and trading gold for dominion is not a good idea IMO)

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by Bayushi Tasogare:
I must say I also really enjoy this AAR. While others may be a little more poetic, the direct applicability of all of the information provided is very useful to new players like me.Precisely my intent. I can be more poetic, but it would get in the way of the main purpose which is to inform, not to entertain. Thanks for the praise! While I think of myself as a rather good strategy player, I have never thought of giving a SC pretender magic skills based on the spells it allowed him to cast in combat. You have certainly broadened my mind in that regard, and I would like to thank both you and Zen for doing so.Thank Zen for that. Prior to him, I hadn't considered SC pretender design in light of combat, only in terms of ritual casting (for when the pretender settles down later, which this SC is unlikely to do). I felt the concept was so important that I wanted to share it with others here, since I knew I couldn't be the only one who had been flailing around in the dark. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 03:20 AM

<center>Turn #5, Late Summer of year 1
A second war?</center>
Travellers from afar bring word that an aptly-named Traitor Prince has become the false prophet of the R'lyeh pretender Hatheg Klah, while a herald brings us the stunning diplomatic note that Caelum has gone to war against us. I am more amused by this than concerned, since the Caelumite herald must have travelled far indeed, through many hostile lands, in order to deliver such a pointless declaration. I decline to feast on him, despite his impudence, since I expect that some barbarian along his route back will be more in need of the meat than I. Perhaps I am too merciful and kind-hearted?

Bdvar reports from Saeborea, whose land alone produces a revenue equal to 40% of that of my entire realm, of some fifty heavily-armed horsemen and soldiers, still loyal to the old pagan ways. He also reports that the farmlands of Helmshire, upriver to the southeast, would also add another 30% to my revenues, and my dominion has already spread into this land. My anger grows at Pythium, for threatening my northern flank should I prematurely extend myself to gather these lands. The delay is like a salted wound to me. Pythium must be swept away! For now, I decide to keep my scout in Saeborea, to refine his estimates of the opposition there, and to observe the capital of Pythium directly to the north.

My army seizes the Black Alps -- unopposed. The Pythium prophet has moved on, behind me, to capture the Iron Range, and to threaten my capital just to the southwest. Intolerable! I am only slightly mollified in that there appear to be only a half-score malcontents in the Alps, which I attribute to the increased faith here, now risen to a level of 30%, as the pagans and heathens behold the fearsome presence of my avatar in their midst. It also appears that my judgement of the unrest in Gwyrth is correct, as one of the malcontents there has adjusted to the changed situation. I expect that more will follow this wiser course, and thus not provoke me into taking action.

While I had been hoping that Pythium would stand its ground in the Alps, I was not truly expecting them to. Their conquest of the pagans in the Range will only make my task of consolidating control over the Jotun Peninsula easier -- once I have disposed of the Pythium prophet and his force. To this end, I make plans and give orders.

The Seithkona Edda joins my coven of magical researchers, and they shall soon master the second rank in the school of 'Alteration'.

My realm has:
 __3 Provinces 181 Treasury. 261 Income. (+6) 114 Resources in the capital. (unchanged)I command that another Seithkona be found to join my coven, and that 3 more Jotun Spearman be readied for the battles ahead. For this, I provide 180 coins.

I send the Herse Bove across the plains of Gwyrth and back to the capital to gather the reinforcements that will be waiting there. My avatar, along with my prophet and my army, eager for battle, march along the ridgelines southwest into the Iron Range, on the hunt for a certain snake prophet.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 11, 2004, 14:28: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 04:52 AM

<center>Turn #6, Early Fall of year 1
Reality masters illusion.</center>
Travellers from afar bring word that a Coral Queen has been appointed as the false prophet of the Atlantian pretender Dinodike [Honest, that's what it's named. A butch, leather-clad reptile goddess of the sea?], while word also reaches us that a Strategos of Arcoscephale speaks for the pretender Falco.

Bdvar reports that the faithful in Saeborea have risen to 20% of the populace, while 30% of the tritons in the Wailwind Waters have been converted. He has revised his report of the strength of the pagans in Saeborea downwards to 40 (from 50). I decide to leave him in place for a third month, to confirm this latest report.

A two-score strong force of gladiators, velites, and hastatus from the Pythium capital marches on the heels of my departing army and seizes the now-vacant and undefended Black Alps. They have taken the bait I left for them. I am pleased. Pythium is acting within my plan, since it will be easier to crush their army away from the walls of their citadel.

My avatar, prophet, and army do battle with the snake-worshippers in the Iron Range. Facing me is the mercenary illusionist Obscuro, a standard-bearer, 8 velites, and 12 hastatus. The Pythium prophet, along with a centurion and 8 velites have slipped around my army and joined the troops in the Alps. My quarry has eluded me, for now, but his days are surely numbered, and they are not many. I content myself with the extermination of the remaining small force, including the mage-for-hire Obscuro. My giants once again do me proud, taking no losses from this weak Pythium force, and my avatar gains another 2 kills and 6 more trophies, the experience thus gained increasing my prowess in combat.

Unrest remains stable in Gwyrth at a dozen malcontents. I may need to deal with them after all, though not now. Perhaps they are affected by the battles in the adjacent lands to their west and north? The people of the Iron Range rejoice at their liberation and the faithful increase to 40% of the total population. A dozen and a half malcontents cause dissent in the newly-freed land, but the populace is sparse in the mountains and I care little about the effect of such few rebels. The blessings of peace will surely silence their outcries in a matter of months.

I make plans to clear the Jotun Peninsula of the remaining snake presence, and give orders.

The Seithkona Urd joins my coven of magical researchers, who have now mastered the second rank in the school of 'Alteration', and they continue their studies with the goal of achieving the third rank.

My realm has:
 __3 Provinces 202 Treasury. 260 Income. (-1) 127 Resources in the capital. (+13)
I command that another Seithkona be found to add to the growing coven, and 3 more Jotun Spearman be readied, for the eventual siege of the Pythium citadel. I also command that a militia leader be placed in the Iron Range, and another in Gwyrth, along with 5 more defenders in the latter plains, the second-largest souce of income to my realm at this time. For this, I empty the treasury completely.

I send Bove, along with eight Jotun spearmen, back to the plains of Gwyrth to bolster the newly-formed militia there, in case Pythium attempts to flank me again. My avatar, along with my prophet and my army, having had a taste of the snakes and found them to their liking, march back towards the Black Alps in search of more substantial fare.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 11, 2004, 14:27: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 06:54 AM

<center>Turn #7, Fall of year 1
The punishment of heretics.</center>
Travellers from afar bring word that a Taisho Daimyo of Ashikaga has been appointed as the false prophet of Arriod. It is interesting that they should choose a warrior, rather than a priest, to be their so-called prophet, though it is in keeping with their highly martial disposition.

Bdvar reports that the faithful in Saeborea have declined to just 10% of the populace. How fickle these mortals are, that they should forget me so soon. I decide to leave the scout in place for a fourth consecutive month. [This is a minor mistake, in retrospect.]

My avatar, prophet, and main army arrive in the Black Alps only to find a pathetic Pythium defense of a commander, 6 velites, and 4 hastatus. The battle is brief, and disappointing, as the commander, 3 of the hastatus, and a single velite manage to flee to the (relative) safety of Pythium to the northeast. My avatar manages to gain 4 more trophies, but not a single kill.

Meanwhile, Bove, his 8 Jotun spearmen, along with another Jotun herse and his 6 Jotun militia, are attacked in Gwyrth by the opportunistic Pythium snake prophet, as I had anticipated he might do based on his earlier tactics. The false prophet commands a force of 16 gladiators, 7 velites, and 2 hastatus. The heretic charges Bove's spearmen, alone, and far ahead of the rest of his troops. Commendable bravery, but utterly foolish. Naturally, he is the first to die, and very quickly, which of course is bad news to the now-leaderless Pythium soldiers. They linger on for a few more exchanges of swordblows, but their heart is simply not in it and the giants slaughter them with ease, while losing not a one of their own. Bove earns 2 more kills and 8 trophies, his experience leading to an improvement of his fighting prowess.

The brief occupation of the Black Alps has seen a culling of the faithful there down to 20%, while those that are malcontent have risen only by one (to thirteen) since I was Last here. It seems that in general the people, wisely, prefer my rule over that of the snakes. In the Iron Range, celebration of my triumph is widespread and the faithful rise to a full half of the population, with one of the malcontents becoming converted. The securing of the lands to the west and north have also silenced one of the critics in Gwyrth, though I cannot discount the possibility it may have simply been due to gratitude over my giants keeping the marauding snake-lovers away from his home. Either way, it is a step in the proper direction. The number of faithful in the as-yet-independent coastal region of Zenthra, directly to the west of my capital, rises to 30%.

Having achieved my objective of clearing the Jotun Peninsula of snake-worshipers, I make plans to take the battle directly to the Pythium citadel, where the pretender Kanuka, a Frost Father, awaits with an estimated two-score gladiators, and without a doubt various summoned creatures and other magical defenders.

The Seithkona Erna is the fourth to join my coven of magical researchers, who will soon master the third rank in the school of 'Alteration'. I therefor instruct them to begin studies in a second area, that of 'Enchantment', as soon as they achieve my goal in 'Alteration'.

My realm has:
 __4 Provinces 175 Treasury. 269 Income. (+9) _91 Upkeep. (+12) 129 Resources in the capital. (+2)
I command that another Seithkona be found for the coven, and 2 more Jotun Spearman be readied, for the upcoming siege of the Pythium citadel. For this, I allot 150 coins. I elect not to bolster province defenses at this time, as I may be able to better utilize the extra coins in recruiting an additional Jotun next month.

I have Bove and his eight Jotun spearmen move up to occupy the Alps, while my avatar, prophet, and main force move into the heart of Pythium.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 11, 2004, 14:26: Message edited by: Arryn ]

February 9th, 2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
[QUOTE]-5% gold and -10% supplies will hurt me more than my enemies. The gold in the early game is critical, and the supplies later on when my armies are large.Did you ever reached Cold-2 by the way ? I'm currently playing Jotunheim in a MP game myself but I took cold+3 (with 6 candles IIRC, this is not a "weak" dominion): after turn 1 the temperature changed, up to cold zero (!) and came back to cold +3 only at turn 20... so I spent most of the early game at +1 or +2 anyway. Even later (we're now playing turn 38 I believe) the temp stays at cold+2 about 80% of the time. If I had a dominion of onlyt +2, I'd *lost* money and 40 design points...

Natural temperature changes should encourage Jotunheim to take cold +3 IMHO.

Cheers

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Sunray_be:
Did you ever reached Cold-2 by the way?The capital begins at Cold 2. Between turns 1 and 8 it has yet to change. I took a quick look ahead to my turn 18 save, and it's dropped to 1, but that is due to my dominion taking a hit from the influence of Atlantis just offshore that has taken place in the intervening months I've yet to write up. Were I being more careful to stem the incursion of hostile dominion, the temperature would still be steady at 2, which is optimal for Jotuns.

Patrik

February 9th, 2004, 01:34 PM

Did you consider air 4 (or 3) instead of astral? If you bring a Seithkona with your Wyrm, you can cast Luck from the start anyway and easily reach Body ethereal.

You would be lacking Astral Shield (which is nice) and Astral Weapon. OTOH, you would gain Mirror Image and Mist Form, have Cloud Trapezee for strategic movement, not having to worry about Mind Duel and add a magic field to your nation (which would then only be lacking earth and fire magic). What do you think?

Edit: Because I can only count to seven http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ February 09, 2004, 15:03: Message edited by: Patrik ]

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Patrik:
Did you consider air 4 (or 3) instead of astral?Yes, I did. Astral is by far stronger, IMO, for the defense of a Wyrm SC. If I were to choose a different path, it would likely be water, though in that case it would be more 'efficient' to pick the Son of Niefel as he starts with 2W, and has more item slots. An offensive magics strategy using Fire is another option, but I might consider yet a different pretender for that. In short, I think Astral is the best for a Wyrm. If you bring a Seithkona with your Wyrm, you can cast Luck from the start anyway and easily reach Body ethereal.But the seithkona cannot cast BE on the wyrm, which is the whole point. You would be lacking Astral Shield (which is nice) and Astral Weapon.I have seen the wyrm paralyze over a third of an enemy force by having them hit the shield. Which then leaves all those foes just sitting there helpless for other units in my army to dispose of, if they don't get eaten by the wyrm first. Astral Weapon allows the wyrm to punch right through heavily armored foes (like Ulms), to kill them outright. If they have high natural protection, the AW won't help, but that's where the death poison comes in. OTOH, you would gain Mirror Image and Mist Form, have Cloud Trapezee for strategic movement, not having to worry about Mind Duel and add a magic field to your nation (which would then only be lacking earth and fire magic). What do you think?IMO, MI isn't even remotely as useful as BE. MF is like a weak BE, but as the spell says, a good solid hit will make the MF go poof. Again, this makes MF decidedly inferior to BE. CT is more expensive than Teleport in gems, and cannot be cast underwater. Mind Duel risk is the only significant point, IMO, that you raise, and had I taken Astral-5 instead of 4, it wouldn't be a major issue. With regards to having a path that my mages lack, that's why I feel that water would be the logical choice as an alternative. With astral, I can always, later on, cast Contact Harbinger and summon an Air-2 mage that way, which can then be empowered to 3 and then up to 5 with items. It's spells that you didn't mention, such as Mass Flight, that have some appeal. But most of the handy air spells can be cast just as usefully (if not more so) by a supporting mage than by the SC.

The point, once again, of this strategy is what spells the SC needs to cast to make itself a very tough and effective combatant. So you really have to look at the spells that have an AoE of Caster. Other spells can be relegated to supporting mages.

Thanks for posing the question(s)!

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 10:10 PM

<center>Turn #8, Late Fall of year 1
The noose descends upon the head of the snake.</center>
Travellers from afar bring word that an Anathemant Warlock of the demon nation of Abyssia has been appointed as the false prophet of Theag. I am puzzled that even the most foolish of mortals would listen to, much less heed, the lies of those that consort with creatures from the nether realms.

My avatar Jorgun, prophet Grymis, and 13 Jotuns engage the defenders of Pythium as my force approaches their citadel. Facing me are 2 centurions, 6 velites, 50 fanatics, and 25 slingers. Missile fire from their own rear kill as many of the fanatics as fall before my advancing giants. The velites put up a valiant rearguard action, engaging my giants in the face of certain death, to permit the remaining fanatics to retreat from the battle. All told my giants, once again with no losses to themselves, kill two-thirds of the fanatics, two-fifths of the slingers, and all the brave velites. Seventeen fanatics, fifteen slingers, and the two centurions manage to flee into the Pythium citadel before the gates slam shut.

Jorgun nearly doubles his kills, to a total of 15, and obtains 8 more trophies. An easy victory, and the 72 gold income of Pythium's farmlands are a very welcome addition to my coffers. My force settles in for a seige that I expect to Last into the next year, as the citadel's walls are formidable, twice as strong as those of my own castle, with ample supplies for the survivors huddled within.

Unrest remains stable in the Black Alps, and drops in Gwyrth and the Iron Range as I have expected. The end of fighting in these lands has calmed the populace, and their lives are slowly returning to the predictability mortals seem to prefer.

The Seithkona Roskva is the fifth to join my coven of magical researchers, who have presented me this month with the welcome news of having achieved mastery of the third rank of 'Alteration', and are near to completing the first rank of 'Enchantment' magics. Jorgun adds the defensive spell Body Ethereal to the magics he prepares before engaging in combat, while the Seithkonas do likewise. With knowledge of the spell Protection, with its greater breadth, I instruct that one of their number be sure to cast this first in any conflict, so that the others in the coven need no longer cast Barkskin.

My realm has:
 __4 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 262 Treasury. 346 Income. (+77) 101 Upkeep. (+10) 130 Resources in the capital. (+1)Gem income is:
 +3 Astral (24) +1 Death (08) +2 Nature (11)
In light of my success in driving back the forces of Pythium, I feel that the Fates will be receptive to my request for one of Lit's sister Norna to join me, so I command that the appropriate gifts and celebration be prepared. I also command that one more Jotun Spearman be readied for the siege of the Pythium citadel. These preparations drain the treasury of 250 coins, and I defer bolstering provincial defenses, preferring to wait and see how Pythium reacts to his successive defeats.

I decide to leave the scout Bdvar in place for yet a fifth consecutive month. [I just forgot about him I guess.] Bove and his eight Jotun spearmen continue to march from the Alps to join my beseiging force at Pythium. I decide to have the Seithkona Urd join my army, so I send word for her to commence travelling to the Alps, by way of Gwyrth, and she is to bring along the five Jotun spearmen which had been acting as bodyguards to the coven members. I expect that the Pythium pretender will be more concerned about my army camped at his gates than in the residents of my castle.

<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 11, 2004, 14:24: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Graeme Dice

February 9th, 2004, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
But the seithkona cannot cast BE on the wyrm, which is the whole point.BE is range 1, so mages cast it on themselves, then the units in adjacent squares.

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
But the seithkona cannot cast BE on the wyrm, which is the whole point.BE is range 1, so mages cast it on themselves, then the units in adjacent squares. <hr /></blockquote>Good point. Thanks. I keep making the same mistake of interpreting "1" as "0" somehow.

Still, isn't having a caster within range 1 of the SC just begging to lose that caster? In one of the battles I observed, had I placed one of my mages that close to my SC (regardless of the SC's position on the field), she would never have been able to move elsewhere to safety in time after casting the spell. I'm not all that willing to sacrifice 90gp casters. The SC does tend to be a magnet for the enemy ... which is fine with me as the Wyrm is rather hard to kill by mere mundane troops.

One tactic I use often is to leave the SC up front, alone, and the rest of the army behind a ways. The SC draws the enemy to it, taking the brunt of any initial charges and such, just in time for the rest of my army to arrive and dispatch the often-paralyzed attackers the wyrm may leave behind. This saves the lives of many of my giants that would otherwise have to suck up that initial charge or missile volley. I just have to be careful not to do this in a province with strong enough enemy dominion to weaken my pretender's HP (and regen) to the point that it might get killed before supporting troops arrive to distract some of the attackers.

[ February 10, 2004, 13:19: Message edited by: Arryn ]

licker

February 9th, 2004, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
But the seithkona cannot cast BE on the wyrm, which is the whole point.BE is range 1, so mages cast it on themselves, then the units in adjacent squares. <hr /></blockquote>Good point. Thanks. I keep making the same mistake of interpeting "1" as "0" somehow.

Still, isn't having a caster within range 1 of the SC just begging to lose that caster? In one of the battles I observed, had I placed one of my mages that close to my SC (regardless of the SC's position on the field), she would never have been able to move back to safety in time after casting the spell. I'm not all that willing to sacrifice 90gp casters. The SC does tend to be a magnet for the enemy ... which is fine with me as the Wyrm is rather hard to kill by mere mundane troops.

One tactic I use often is to leave the SC up front, alone, and the rest of the army behind a ways. The SC draws the enemy to it, taking the brunt of any initial charges and such, just in time for the rest of my army to arrive and dispatch the often-paralyzed attackers the wyrm may leave behind. This saves the lives of many of my giants that would otherwise have to suck up that initial charge or missile volley. I just have to be careful not to do this in a province with strong enough enemy dominion to weaken my pretender's HP (and regen) to the point that it might get killed before supporting troops arrive to distract some of the attackers. <hr /></blockquote>Well you can script the caster to retreat after they put up whatever spells you want. Of course this does lead them to not be with your army if you win. I thought they were looking into fixing that (or changing it for those who don't consider it to be a fix). That is that the winning sides retreaties actually stay with the army if it's victorious...

Arryn

February 9th, 2004, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by licker:
Well you can script the caster to retreat after they put up whatever spells you want.In the example I cited, my mage would have been killed before being able to retreat. The area around the SC was swarmed. And the SC was neither in the front, nor the very back, in that battle. My army just wasn't big enough to stop the attackers at the front from rushing past. Enemy flyers make it even more imperative that I keep my casters away from my SC. The SC, being a pretender, and size 6, is a priority target no matter where it is.

I admit that it doesn't often happen that quickly, or that thoroughly, that a mage cannot retreat to safety, but the fact that it can happen is enough for me to plan on using different tactics.

BTW, I think the complexion and balance of the game will be dramatically changed if IW allows for the tactic of hit-n-run mages, or as Norfleet might phrase it, drive-by castings.

[ February 09, 2004, 21:23: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 04:07 AM

Something's been bothering me subconsciously and I finally know what it is. Perhaps someone who's actually tried it can answer this question:

The spell Body Ethereal has an AoE of 1. The Wyrm is size 6, and thus larger than 1 standard square (or at least it looks that way on the pre-battle positioning map). Can a Seithkona still cast BE on the Wyrm, since the target takes up more squares than the BE's AoE of 1?

Bonus question: how many size 2 beings fit within 1 standard square?

TIA.

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 04:30 AM

Another thing that I forgot to mention in an earlier reply on the subject of why I didn't/wouldn't choose another path, like air, for the Wyrm. Utgard begins with no air gem sites, nor mages with air. Once the game advanced sufficiently to the point where the SC might want to cast a spell that needs gems, or craft an air item, the SC couldn't without consuming large numbers of gems in alchemy conVersions. Or worse, having to personally go search for air sites. The point of using an SC pretender is to have the SC fight. If the SC is off doing something else, then its best abilities are wasted, IMO.

I'm sure that some may argue that having an SC doing site searches isn't wasted time. I'd like for them to explain how site-searching is not a less efficient use of the SC, when that SC could be grabbing more provinces, expanding the nation's gold base and spreading dominion faster?

If you take a pretender who cannot use the theme's gem resources, you are not taking full advantage of the strengths of that theme. This is why much as I like water for a pretender, I've learned to temper my enthusiasm for it when playing Jotun. Only the Jotun Niflheim theme has a water site, and I dislike the mage choices of that theme. It's my least-favorite Jotun theme.

Graeme Dice

February 10th, 2004, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
The spell Body Ethereal has an AoE of 1. The Wyrm is size 6, and thus larger than 1 standard square (or at least it looks that way on the pre-battle positioning map). Can a Seithkona still cast BE on the Wyrm, since the target takes up more squares than the BE's AoE of 1?Behemoths can be etherealized, so you probably can.

Bonus question: how many size 2 beings fit within 1 standard square?Three. 6 sizes can fit in any given square, so you can put six hoburgs, or one Jotun and two hoburgs, and so on.

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 04:41 AM

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
6 sizes can fit in any given squareThanks Graeme!

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 08:31 AM

<center>Turn #9, Early Winter of year 1
The noose tightens on the snake.</center>
Winter having set in, there are no travellers bringing word from afar of events in distant lands.

Some of the defenders within Pythium's citadel sally forth in a weak, vain attempt to drive me away, aided by a half-score gladiators from the Feral Woods (#110) to the northeast. My beseiging army (avatar Jorgun, prophet Grymis, Herse Bove, and 21 Jotuns) engage one of the commanders that I have previously battled, two velites, and a total of twenty-three gladiators. We slaughter the entire enemy force, save for one velite that escapes into the Feral Woods. But the battle is not without a price. The accumulation of wounds from previous battles finally takes its toll, and three of my Jotun spearmen lay dead on the field before the citadel, and another half-dozen carry various injuries. Fortune is with my commanders, and they remain unhurt.

Jorgun adds 4 more kills and 9 more trophies to his tally, while Bove claims 2 more kills and 10 more trophies, but the mood is somber as we remember the fallen.

The number of dissenters declines by two in the Black Alps, and by one in Gwyrth. The number of faithful in still-independent Zenthra rises to half the populace.

The Norna Skade joins her sister, Lit, in my coven, which achieve mastery of the first rank of 'Enchantment' magics and make rapid progress towards the second rank.

My realm has:
 __4 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 213 Treasury. 346 Income. (unchanged) 111 Upkeep. (+10) 131 Resources in the capital. (+1)
Gem income is:
 +3 Astral (27) +1 Death (09) +2 Nature (13)
I command that another Seithkona be found for the coven, and 4 more Jotun Spearman be readied for the siege of the Pythium citadel, to make up for any losses we should suffer there over the winter. I also decide to seek out a human commander from amongst the inhabitants of the Black Alps. He may prove useful in guiding reinforcements from the capital to join with my army. These preparations drain the treasury of 240 coins, and I once again defer bolstering provincial defenses, since it appears, at least for now, that my lands are under no threat. It is a calculated, but reasonably safe risk this early in the war.

The Seithkona Urd, bringing five Jotun spearmen to replace our losses, continues her march from the Alps. Judging the strategic situation to be well in hand, I decide to leave my beseiging Jotuns under the able command of my prophet, while my avatar, alone, goes forth to the independent river valley of Eribon (#74), and the estimated half-score heavy cavalry that await there.

PS - All provinces with positive dominion are currently at Cold-2.

I make a number of small, but careless mistakes this turn:
 I leave the scout Bdvar in place for yet a sixth consecutive month. The continued oversight is due to not checking F1 as I should each month. Of course, if IW were to provide a small icon in provinces with hidden friendly units ... I put my beseiging troops under the command of my prophet (because his morale is better than the Herse's). I should have put them under the Herse and ordered the prophet to preach down the dominion in the beseiged province. I do catch this oversight next month, but I should have started it in this month. Having just achieved Enchantment-1, and with enough Death gems, I was now ready to have one of the Seithkonas cast Reanimation. I simply forgot, but I do wake up this coming month.<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 11, 2004, 14:23: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 10th, 2004, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
BTW, I think the complexion and balance of the game will be dramatically changed if IW allows for the tactic of hit-n-run mages, or as Norfleet might phrase it, drive-by castings. Hit-and-run priesting is the bane of my armies. I ran into this in my first multiplayer game with my clan, purely by accident: He had sent priests as commanders of his regular armies, who banished, and when his regular armies got slaughtered, his commanders auto-routed.

I, of course, being inherently suspicious, interpreted it as a deliberate act, which simply inspired him to actually *MAKE* it a deliberate act, and so progress against his empire literally ground to a halt as every turn, my horde of marauding undead would be decimated in a hit-and-run, drive-by priesting. It's definitely workable, if you deliberately build for it.

Hit-and-run is definitely a workable tactic that can counter any attempt to make a line-drive for your capitol, provided you're willing to be a little flexible about the holding of territory: Guerrilla mages can definitely put a cramp in one's style.

An expansion on this would be very interesting for Dominions II: Sneaking units that can perform sneaking retreats, even into enemy territory, that are thus able to harass and attack enemy forces in a campaign of guerrilla warfare.

[ February 10, 2004, 07:12: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
progress against his empire literally ground to a halt as every turn, my horde of marauding undead would be decimated in a hit-and-run, drive-by priestingYes, I can see how cheap, 50gp human priests, recruitable at most land temples, given orders of Banishment x5, Retreat, can be the bane (pun intended) of Ermorian-style hordes, and why folks here say that Ermor isn't very difficult to counter in MP. A handful of them, thrown into the path of advancing undead, can just ruin months of work assembling such a horde. It does my soul good to think about it. hehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

So, Norfy, I'm glad you're taking the time to read my AAR. Even if you haven't been commenting on the AAR itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But your "drive-by priesting" phrase is so amusing to me that I forgive you your sins.

I will leave you with the mental image of a red-armored knight riding a white dragon (called 'gold leader') flying inside a very long chasm filled with randomly-spaced ballista-armed watchtowers, yelling to another flyer "stay on topic ... stay on topic ..." {yes, I'm a huge SW fan}

[ February 10, 2004, 09:40: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Patrik

February 10th, 2004, 04:46 PM

Not wanting to start a big argument here (but doing it anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ), but it seems you gave up on an Air Wyrm a little bit to easy (not taking into account the range of BE). IME, the Seithkona will very reliably cast BE (and Luck) on the Wyrm BEFORE casting it on herself. Thus, after researching Enchantment 3, you can start the battle with the Seithkona casting BE and Luck and the Wyrm casting Mistform, Mirror Image and then attacking.

The weakness is (as you have pointed out) protecting the Seithkona. I try to do this by having one 'suicide' troop in the other end of the battlefield. If you place your troops right, the enemy won't reach him before the Wyrm starts moving forward (and thus the seithkona will never be targeted). Alternatively, you can skip MI (the Wyrm not having very good defense anyway) and go Mistform, Flight, Attack closest instead. In that way, you can start the Wyrm far back and get it to the front in time to take the initial enemy charge. Of course, troop placement will be crucial.

IMO, an Astral Wyrm is easier to use, but with national Astral mages, an Air Wyrm can be just as good (with careful planning and troop placement). In MP, I would like to have at least 6, preferably 7 on a Astral pretender, making the Air Wyrm a much cheaper choice.

As for using a Pretender with the same magic as your national gem income, I agree that it can be important sometimes, but IMO not in your case. Your Wyrm only has Astral 4 and you will get plenty of Nornas with Astral 3. And Astral can very easily be boosted in combat... OTOH, having easy access to air spells such as Storm, Mass Flight and Fog Warriors is great for all nations. And alchemy from Astral gems for the purpose of casting battle field spells is not a big deal.

Just my two cents of course (oh, BTW, despite being quite expensive, I would definitely consider a 3 Air, 3 Earth Wyrm. Invulnerability, Mistform and Mirror Image, and BE/Luck from a Seithkona. Try hurting that one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Patrik:
Not wanting to start a big argument here (but doing it anywayIt's not an argument, Pat. My purpose for this AAR thread is educational. And that includes myself. Despite any impressions to the contrary, I'm open to differing ideas. it seems you gave up on an Air Wyrm a little bit to easy (not taking into account the range of BE).I agree that I did. The weakness is (as you have pointed out) protecting the Seithkona. I try to do this by having one 'suicide' troop in the other end of the battlefield. If you place your troops right, the enemy won't reach him before the Wyrm starts moving forward (and thus the seithkona will never be targeted).I may have too much of an aVersion to sacrificing units. It just goes against my grain. Call it a weakness of mine that you can exploit. But this is, indeed, a viable tactic. Alternatively, you can skip MI (the Wyrm not having very good defense anyway) and go Mistform, Flight, Attack closest instead. In that way, you can start the Wyrm far back and get it to the front in time to take the initial enemy charge. Of course, troop placement will be crucial.I would prefer to script 'rear' rather than 'closest', to take full advantage of the Flight. The downside is that my troops would have to fend for themselves while I ravaged the enemy commanders and missile troops. IMO, Flight is the primary reason why I would deign to use an Air Wyrm. However, I'm not so sure that giving up Astral Shield (or Weapon) for Flight is wise for an SC. Though I admit that Flight is of immense value in the capture of forts. I look forward to hearing the opinions of others on this. IMO, an Astral Wyrm is easier to use, but with national Astral mages, an Air Wyrm can be just as good (with careful planning and troop placement).It may be of interest that when Zen suggested the Astral Wyrm to me, I'd just lost, badly, in a 4-player blitz MP game for VPs, using a dual-bless nature/water Son of Niefel. I'm sure that "easier to use" was on his mind. As for using a Pretender with the same magic as your national gem income, I agree that it can be important sometimes, but IMO not in your case. Your Wyrm only has Astral 4 and you will get plenty of Nornas with Astral 3.This is where we fundamentally disagree. Astral Shield, Astral Weapon, Teleport, and Gateway are all caster-only. Flight, like BE, can be cast by someone other than the SC. The real question is trading the two astral enchantments in the early game for flight, with the understanding that the SC will not be able to cast the more powerful, caster-only astral spells later on. Conjuration-6 will get me an air-2 mage, in the form of a Harbinger, for 25 astral gems, which by the time I have Conj-6 should be no problem. So the option of flight (and other nice air spells) is still open, just delayed until the mid-game. BTW, despite being quite expensive, I would definitely consider a 3 Air, 3 Earth Wyrm. Invulnerability, Mistform and Mirror Image, and BE/Luck from a Seithkona. Try hurting that one.Now this is an intriguing concept I may have to play around with a bit. Thanks!

Wendigo

February 10th, 2004, 05:51 PM

I concur with Patrik.

Jotun's biggest weakness is the lack of random picks in fire/earth/air.
Getting air on the pretender gives you among others access to air magic, wards vs air, protection vs missiles & protection vs fliers...all stuff you do not have.
Your cold dominion & your air proficiency also offer a degree of protection vs fire.

Getting astral on your pretender doesn't help compensate for this, and in addition makes your other vulnerability (being a 2nd tier astral nation) even bigger, as now both your battle mages & your pretender are vulnerable to Magic duel. This will not hurt you in SP, but can easily doom you in MP.

While you could get a high lv of astral to avoid this vulnerability a Wyrm doesn't cut it as a SC in the end game, so investing in high astral would not be a good idea IMO. Non humanoid pretenders can barely stand vs fully equipped humanoid ones when Const4+ is researched, much less when artifacts come into play.
The Wyrm works as a relatively expendable, easy to use, forgivable with mistakes Pretender for early expansion both in land & seas. Trying to turn the critter into something else with more than some token magic is a waste of design points IMO.

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 06:32 PM

I haven't discussed it before now, but I never intended for the Wyrm to act as an SC beyond the mid-game, if even that far. I'm quite aware of the limitations of not having humanoid item slots for SCs in the latter half of the game.

Astral-5 (6 with a cap and 7 with a cap & coin) should be adequate defense in MP. To effectively threaten you they will have to invest considerably in boosting an astral mage of their own, which they may or may not be able to do, depending on what they are playing.

So far, the arguments I am seeing favoring taking air fail to address the question I asked in return: In the early game, does the gain from taking air offset the loss from not taking astral? I'm still waiting for an answer to this, specific, question ...

Wendigo

February 10th, 2004, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Astral-5 (6 with a cap and 7 with a cap & coin) should be adequate defense in MP. To effectively threaten you they will have to invest considerably in boosting an astral mage of their own, which they may or may not be able to do, depending on what they are playing.
[/QB]This assumes:
-That you do not die nor get afflicted (quite of an assumption for someone that plans on hiding his whole army behind his Pretender).
-That you make it to const6 before a possible hostile Pythium/R'lyeh/Arco makes it to Evo3 (for your skullcap).
-That you forge a 2E-2O item when you have no mages with earth proficiency.

So far, the arguments I am seeing favoring taking air fail to address the question I asked in return: In the early game, does the gain from taking air offset the loss from not taking astral? I'm still waiting for an answer to this, specific, question ... [/QB]Yes. Both in the early, mid & end game. Talking from experience, I won my Last 2 MP games as Jotun.

In the early game it will protect you vs missiles & fliers, in the mid & end game vs lightning & air elementals. It gives you an additional magic field also. Astral however, gives you nothing that you already do not have.

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Wendigo:
This assumes:
-That you do not die nor get afflictedA risk in any battle, regardless. If one dies, one is screwed. End of story. There is little point in dwelling overmuch on it. The Wyrm regens, and the chances of a Wyrm taking the feeblemind injury in melee are remote. (quite of an assumption for someone that plans on hiding his whole army behind his Pretender)I never said this was my sole strategy, nor one I use injudiciously. Please don't twist my words. What I said was that I do this fairly often, against small-to-moderate sized enemy forces. Forces I feel reasonably safe in using it against, based on prior experience.
That you make it to const6 before a possible hostile Pythium/R'lyeh/Arco makes it to Evo3 (for your skullcap).And you assume that those same possible hostiles also have an astral caster of L5+. Your assumption is no better than mine, I think. Is it common to find players of Pythium, R'lyeh, or Arco taking Astral-5+ pretenders? After all, don't many of the same arguments about diversifying paths apply to them as well? That you forge a 2E-2O item when you have no mages with earth proficiency.For the coin. I never said I'd be sure to be able to do so, or to do it quickly, only that it's possible. Again, you are twisting my words. In the early game it will protect you vs missiles & fliersVersus fliers how? If you mean Storm, that's Evoc-5, which is past the early game (by my reckoning), and would hurt me more than help, unless I give up the idea of flying myself. However, if I do, then Storm is certainly a wonderful defensive spell -- that any air-4 mage can cast. in the mid & end game vs lightning & air elementals. It gives you an additional magic field also.I've never been struck by lightning or air elementals. Just fire spells, and fire/water/earth elementals. Perhaps I've just been lucky so far and no opponents have been strong in air. The biggest advantage I see is the extra path early on. I'm just not so sure, still, that it's worth it. But I'll very likely try it in another game. I play lots of SP games, and have 6 ones active at the moment, that I switch between to avoid boredom. Astral however, gives you nothing that you already do not have.This is not true, but there's little point in rehashing it, if it's not clear enough by now.

BTW, thanks for the discussion. It's helpful.

Norfleet

February 10th, 2004, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Even if you haven't been commenting on the AAR itself.Well, I like the AAR and all, but it's a tad difficult to comment on it much when you've admitted that, a long time ago, you hit turn 18, and by now, are probably on turn 180...and your AAR is lagging behind at turn 9. That kinda makes it ancient history, y'know? All in all, I'd say you're doing pretty well.

I'm not entirely sure why everyone is so concerned about Astral-5, and magic duel, though. The way I see it, anyone who's taken Astral-anything, and hasn't gone totally nuts with his astral level, is subject to being potted in a magic duel against nations like Arco or Pythium anyway: It's not all that hard to communion-boost Astral mages to a level where potting even an Astral 5 or 6 isn't an even shot for a Theurg or an Astrologer, and in most cases, a 50/50 shot at potting somebody's god and perhaps putting a major kink in his plans is worth it, especially if you throw 4 or 5 dueller at him in a row, which all but guarantees you WILL get him. Am I missing something? What's so special about Astral 5? Don't you need to be 6 levels above to survive a magic duelling spree?

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Well, I like the AAR and all, but it's a tad difficult to comment on it much when you've admitted that, a long time ago, you hit turn 18, and by now, are probably on turn 180...and your AAR is lagging behind at turn 9. That kinda makes it ancient history, y'know? All in all, I'd say you're doing pretty well.I stopped at turn 18, which was when I got the idea to write the AAR. I have not gone further because I wanted the feedback from the forum before I went ahead. So far, though, the comments have been all about what I did before turn 1 and nothing about what's been done afterwards. Perhaps I should have expected this, since so many people appear to focus strongly on optimizing the pretender design, and much less so on how the pretender is actually used afterwards. In military terms, more on strategy and less on tactics. BTW, real military officers are taught tactics first, then strategy. It's a bottom-up technique of building from the basics. As Bayushi Tasogare noted, strategy derived from tactics. In this case, pretender design based on combat usage.
It's not all that hard to communion-boost Astral mages to a level where potting even an Astral 5 or 6 isn't an even shot for a Theurg or an Astrologer, and in most cases, a 50/50 shot at potting somebody's god and perhaps putting a major kink in his plans is worth itThank you for pointing out what I'd been overlooking: communion. If this is so easy to do, and so dangerous, why would anyone ever take Astral? What's the counter (since Dom seems to have a counter-strategy to everything)?

Wendigo

February 10th, 2004, 08:46 PM

You already made up your mind to ignore counsel from more experienced players , so be it. I will make one Last attempt and leave you to make your own mistakes & learn from them.

You are using your Wyrm at the front of your armies, it's going to die & get hurt vs competent opponents whether you like it or not, I have killed my fair share of Wyrms to know it. And when it dies, it will lose magic levels and become more & more vulnerable to being magic dueled.

And you assume that those same possible hostiles also have an astral caster of L5+. Your assumption is no better than mine, I think. Is it common to find players of Pythium, R'lyeh, or Arco taking Astral-5+ pretenders? After all, don't many of the same arguments about diversifying paths apply to them as well? It's in no way as adventurous as yours. Unlike Jotun, those nations can roll Astral 4& 5 mages. Unlike Jotun, those nations can forge the crystal coin. Those nations can afford to script a few mages to magic duel, knowing that only landing one removes your pretender & makes him more vulnerable to future duels.
You will not be duelled by pretenders, but by national mages.
Those nations are not restricted in their random picks as Jotun is, but you either do not know this or are sidesteping it. They do not need any particular magic on their pretenders as Jotun does. One random pick in fire/air...allows them to communion & cast the related wards.

Versus fliers how? If you mean Storm, that's Evoc-5, which is past the early game (by my reckoning), and would hurt me more than help, unless I give up the idea of flying myself. However, if I do, then Storm is certainly a wonderful defensive spell -- that any air-4 mage can cast. Uhu? you have no fliers without air magic, nor the magic to summon them. SoS is constr4, easily early game.
You do not fly your pretender in the middle of the enemy army & in short range of all enemy mages if you want it to survive.

I've never been struck by lightning or air elementals. Just fire spells, and fire/water/earth elementals. Perhaps I've just been lucky so far and no opponents have been strong in air. Peharps you need more experience. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Try sending your Wyrm vs a few orb lighning casting mages, or see how your army fares vs Wrathful skies.

edit-quoting was wrong

[ February 10, 2004, 18:53: Message edited by: Wendigo ]

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 09:07 PM

Question: do you wish to see less prose and more clear, concise (ie: dry) facts, or leave the AAR style as is?

Pillin

February 10th, 2004, 09:25 PM

Personally I enjoy the current style immensly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 09:50 PM

Wendigo,

You have made many valid and interesting points. It's too bad that you feel that you must bludgeon me with them in a most abrasive/abusive manner. It leaves me wondering just what it is that you want from me? Are you this way with anyone who even remotely questions your wisdom?

I also find it interesting that you cherry-pick quotations where the views differ and ignore any in which they agree. Strikes me as a recipe to just argue. In a normal discussion, it's perfectly fine for there to be agreement as well as dissent. Why do you focus on just the dissent? Let's look at a few examples:

#1. my statement
Perhaps I've just been lucky so far and no opponents have been strong in air. The biggest advantage I see is the extra path early on. I'm just not so sure, still, that it's worth it. But I'll very likely try it in another game. I play lots of SP games, and have 6 ones active at the momentHere I've just acknowledged your points and say that I intend to check them out.

your response
You already made up your mind to ignore counsel from more experienced players, so be itHardly warranted, I think. Purely argumentative, if not an outright flame.

#2. my statement
I never said this was my sole strategy, nor one I use injudiciously. ... What I said was that I do this fairly often, against small-to-moderate sized enemy forces. Forces I feel reasonably safe in using it against, based on prior experience.your response
You are using your Wyrm at the front of your armies, it's going to die ... vs competent opponents whether you like it or notWhich totally ignores my earlier comment that I would not do this against forces that have a significant chance of killing it. Be that as it may, on the one hand you are arguing in favor of an air path SC, then turning right around and basically saying that all SCs are bad because they run the risk of death. Can't have it both ways.

#3. my statement
Conjuration-6 will get me an air-2 mage, in the form of a Harbinger, for 25 astral gemsyour response
you have no fliers without air magic, nor the magic to summon themWhat part of my statement did you not understand? For in this you are clearly mistaken. I presume you are familiar with this spell, and the summoned creature?

In closing ...

your response
Perhaps you need more experienceI have never said I didn't. If I knew it all I wouldn't be on the forums asking questions from time to time.

So I ask again, what it is that you want from me?

Wendigo

February 10th, 2004, 10:19 PM

I have nothing vs you. I want nothing from you (except that you stop dragging me into this with questions as your Last one).

If my arguments have convinced you, fine. If not, fine also but do not move from the topic at hand as if debating opposing views on a board was some kind of personal vendetta.

Bossemanden

February 10th, 2004, 10:32 PM

My feeling is that the discussion has reached a point where it should either stop or be pursued in another thread. I like the AAR part but the discussion seems to be getting negative.

But Arryn dont stop the AAR now please.

Me likes it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

February 10th, 2004, 10:35 PM

I believe that what Pepe is trying to say is there are counters (which there are for every combination and variety of nations and themes) to this particular Wyrm strategy.

Which is of course true. If not, everyone would use Wyrms constantly and there would be no other choice.

The primary reasoning for this is it's lack of slots (body slot in particular for Elemental Hauberk), the vulnerability of Astral Magic in general (especially on Pretenders) and the heavy handedness that most newer people use their SC's.

On the other hand Pepe, Arryn is only defending what she feels and knows is right at the current, perhaps in a fashion that is argumentative, but that is just the way some people are. You should know from your Dom1 days that the learning curve from newbie to experienced is quite a turn, especially for those going from SP to MP. So maybe you could cut her a little slack, not everyone will take what people say for fact until it's been used against them.

Also, Arryn you need to not specifically bow down to the more experienced members (which Pepe is), but take their advice with a grain of salt and not try to find flaw in the argument, but the key questions as to what and why they arn't constants (which in this game they are not, no amount of planning and preperation will give you a consistant response to every game, there are just too many variables).

Just agree to disagree, try to leave any personal comments at the door (cough, cough).

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Bossemanden:
My feeling is that the discussion has reached a point where it should either stop or be pursued in another thread. I like the AAR part but the discussion seems to be getting negative.

But Arryn dont stop the AAR now please.

Me likes it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif My thanks to you, Pillin, and the others that seem to be deriving some use from my effort. I have no intention of stopping the AAR, so you need not worry.

The discussion you tactfully refer to went negative many Posts ago, and I apologize for my part in it. 'Nuff said. I'll start keying in Turn #10 ...

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 10:51 PM

Zen, can you please explain to me why anyone would play a pretender with Astral if it's so easy to whack them with communion-boosted mages? I presume there's a counter to the communion-covens?

February 10th, 2004, 11:03 PM

Because Astral is a powerful school of magic. It has access to quite a few of the best spells in the game. Also the nature of the game permits you to not always place your Pretender in immediate danger (I.E. combat) so when you are faced with a situation where you are facing Pythium/R'leyh/Arco and to a lesser extent, the Astral 2 Mage nations that are gunning for your Pretender he can be regulated to a different duty.

The power of the Wyrm has always been early initial expansion, Astral helps that particular cause quite a bit, lengthening his already initial investment by a factor of 5~10 turns. In that timeframe you need to make him count for what he is doing. After that point if you are in conflict with one of the aforementioned nations, you have to switch the use of your Pretender, more than likely summoning/forging/gatewaying. Choosing a different path (Say Air or Earth) you would not be limited by that particular aspect, but still limited as you would in any game because as the game progresses, SC Pretenders become less of a factor as other nations can manufacture their own SC's that can potentially kill your Pretender without losing as much in the process.

These are of course advanced multiplayer strategies that you are the most vulnerable to. If you are trying to learn about the viability of using SC's by easiest example (like your Pretender) and the spell paths/uses of spells (as someone mentioned earlier) this is a valuable learning experience. Which is exactly why you started this AAR, correct?

You didn't start it to run up and into MP situations as supreme grognard, but with the knowledge of how an aspect of the game is used. But as a tool of learning and showing people your own mistakes/insights/observations/innovations.

Take it in that light and I'm sure you'll feel much better. What some of the more experienced players may not remember, or care about, is that a whole deluge of newbies are out there. Trying to learn. This is a tool for those as well as the players themselves. While people can sit here and spout advise all day, it's not going to aid you in playing the game until you figure out the entire aspects for yourself and reasonings. It would be pure folly to try to do so and you would lose alot of the magic that this game so eloquently provides.

Edit: One of the best counters to Communion/Teleporting/Covens is Fires from Afar and to a lesser extent Seeking Arrows, etc. Foul Vapors, Wrathful Skies, Lammashatas, Fliers all do very well at killing mid-large numbers of commanders.

Edit: I also suggested Earth and Air previously Arryn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But you have your own personal standards, didn't want Earth because you wern't familiar with it and Air, for whatever reason http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Astral is just the next down the line of simplicity to use.

[ February 10, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Zen ]

Karacan

February 10th, 2004, 11:15 PM

Not everyone sends their pretender to the front, and there's usually more than just one front - if you know an astral active enemy approaches, just send your astral weak SC to another front.

Also, the communion strategy is *very* susceptible to assassinations. Communicants are slain by a simple unequipped assassin quite easily. Seeking Arrows kill them off with one shot, and lots of other bad things can happen to them. Two communicants dead before the battle usually mess up scripting very nicely.

Oh, and please continue in your style.

Wendigo

February 10th, 2004, 11:20 PM

Once a number of game mechanics have been present in multiple games of yours you take that stuff for granted, and are surprised when what you consider common knowledge is dismissed as wrong, even fustrated when after detailed argumentation you fail to transmit what -to you- is obvious.

Sorry if I was too agressive. The 'Peharps you need more experience' sentence was indeed a low blow.

February 10th, 2004, 11:22 PM

You can never be too aggressive when trying to help. You just can't be offended because they won't pound it into their head that *you're* right, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Spainards!

Arryn

February 10th, 2004, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by Zen:
I also suggested Earth and Air previously Arryn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But you have your own personal standards, didn't want Earth because you wern't familiar with it and Air, for whatever reason http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Astral is just the next down the line of simplicity to use. Zen, thanks for all the insights, and for the encouragement.

I'd like to clarify one small thing though, hence the quote above. The conversation we had went something like "What are you familar with?" I said I was familiar with R'lyeh and Jotun, and the Ashikaga mod. Since I had just played a dual-bless Jotun pretender in MP blitz (and done badly), you opted to stay with Jotun and I agreed, so you selected the Wyrm, which was one of the two Jotun pretenders I've used before. I said I'd used Astral, Nature, Death, and Water magics with pretenders. I neglected to mention that I am also familiar with Air and Fire, but not on pretenders. You mentioned that Earth was good and all I said was that I was unfamiliar with it. I did not say I didn't want it. What I did say was that I was uninterested in *Blood*. Air was not mentioned at all. Considering we were doing this at roughly 3-4AM Central time, after many hours of being awake, I am hardly surprised we overlooked it. After mentioning Earth, you proposed Astral. And we proceeded from there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

My purpose in relating this is so the readers will understand *what* led to the choices that were made, on my part, and *how* it was done. Zen has already given the reasons *why* he suggested what he did. So that's the what, how, and why of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 10, 2004, 21:57: Message edited by: Arryn ]

February 11th, 2004, 12:00 AM

I may have! I am the perpetrator of the Astral Wyrm. I am the newb, cruxify me for my choices!

If I'd known that you were going to write an AAR that would stir this much contraversy I'd have made you pick Arco with a Natarajah. They are much easier to teach *everything* about without having any instant weaknesses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by Zen:
If I'd known that you were going to write an AAR that would stir this much contraversy I'd have made you pick Arco with a Natarajah. They are much easier to teach *everything* about without having any instant weaknesses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif My fault. I didn't get the idea to AAR it until I'd done 17 or 18 turns. It wasn't exactly planned. Hell, if it had been, I'd've been more dutiful about making sure I didn't overlook things when issuing turn orders (like my scout). The fact that I have save games for each turn is a habit I got into a few weeks ago, after I ran into an issue that I was posting to IW as a bug and was not at the time keeping savegames so couldn't show them an example of it. I have 77 turns of a R'lyeh game, 57 of an Ashikaga game (LoF god), 39 turns of a dual-bless (N+W) Utgard game, and a few others as well. None of these do I have any intention of writing an AAR for. One AAR I think will be more than enough work for me.

I am very interested in what you have to say about Arco, Nats, and "everything". Anytime you'd care to create your own educational thread ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by Karacan:
Also, the communion strategy is *very* susceptible to assassinations. Communicants are slain by a simple unequipped assassin quite easily.Since Jotun has no assassins, is there a way to hire indy assassins? (I've never seen any.)

Graeme Dice

February 11th, 2004, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by Zen:
If I'd known that you were going to write an AAR that would stir this much contraversy I'd have made you pick Arco with a Natarajah. They are much easier to teach *everything* about without having any instant weaknessesWell, the Nataraja doesn't come with good natural protection, and only has a single misc slot so you can have some trouble giving him all the stuff you might want.

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 12:56 AM

In case anyone's been having any sort of trouble following the flow of my turn postings, I've been trying to maintain a consistent format for each one. It is as follows:
 Turn number and season (month). A one-line "poetic" summary of the turn's most significant event. The reports of events in other nations. The report of anything special that has happened to me. This may sometimes be moved further down to better fit the prose. Descriptions of the battles that have taken place. This may take several paragraphs. I will generally not go into what happened in every replay turn, but instead give a condensed, or abridged Version of the action. I do take the time, though, to count each and every enemy unit type on the replay, which is tedious as you may imagine. I feel it's useful to know the exact mix of forces the AI has used and what it did to me and I to it. I follow the battle report with a report of how my people in the Hall of Fame (HoF) are faring. "Trophies" is my word for "experience". It's the best I could think of to put XP into some sort of thematic form. Next is an overview of the unrest in my realm. I may also include significant increases in province dominion in this paragraph. Following this is a report on the commanders that were hired, and what school level my researches have achieved this turn. A summary of the most important numerical stats for the realm, and the capital. Followed by the gem treasury report, with the amount in the pool shown in parenthesis. Next is a paragraph describing what/who I'm recruiting, and why. The Last thing in the turn is what orders I have given to whom. There is one Last thing that I may add to some turns, and that is my own assessment of any obvious mistakes I made that turn.
I hope this helps.

[ February 10, 2004, 22:59: Message edited by: Arryn ]

February 11th, 2004, 12:59 AM

Well there are uses for magic arn't there? Not everyone gets to be left alone for 30 turns to make supergolems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The reason that Arco is very nice to learn on is because of the wide variety of magics. The reason that the Natty is so good to learn SC's with is because he's very, very solid with a few picks of the right magic and has the slots to switch/adjust.

Combine a Natarajah with the versitility of Arco and you have a lethal combination for learning about SC's. Not to mention the standard armies of Arco can very much hold their own without much need for support from indeps. It is a much better breeding ground for learning alot of what the game has to offer as far as making tough combatants in combination with standard armies and magical choices.

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Since Jotun has no assassins, is there a way to hire indy assassins? (I've never seen any.) There are a few rare places you can hire assassins of varying quality: Some rare provinces have an Assassin's Guild site which lets you hire assassins. The Hidden Kingdom of Elludia would let you hire Elludian Stalkers, which are pretty mean baseline assassins. Alternatively, as Jotun, you could send those scouts out to hunt for some blood, and have a Skratti bake up some Black Hearts, which you could then equip on a Woodsman.

Graeme Dice

February 11th, 2004, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Zen:
Well there are uses for magic arn't there? Not everyone gets to be left alone for 30 turns to make supergolems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Hey. It's not _my_ fault that you guys got caught up in dealing with each other and left me all by myself to expand at a leisurely pace.

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 10:49 AM

<center>Turn #10, Winter of Year 1
Fast food, medieval style.</center>
Braving the snows, travellers from afar bring word that a Sidhe Lord of Man has been appointed as the false prophet of Yadnif Goo.

While the siege of Pythium enters the third month, my avatar goes for a pleasant stroll upriver in the farmlands of Eribon. The heathens of this land, independent yet mildly sympathetic to Pythium, oppose me with a force of one priest and his fanatical bodyguard, a pair of mounted commanders, eleven heavy cavalry, and a trio of heavy footmen. Jorgun begins the battle at the rear of the field, which allows enough time to prepare spells of Personal Luck and Body Ethereal before the enemy cavalry charge arrives. My avatar receives the charge, completely unscathed, and proceeds to eat the nearest horse and rider. The cavalry switch to sabers, but are still unable to hurt Jorgun, who strikes out and envenoms a second horse and rider, which die writhing only moments later. Appalled by this, and the ineffectualness of their attack, the morale of the cavalry breaks and they immediately attempt to flee, but not before Jorgun poisons another rider and his mount, who suffer the same agonizing death as their predecessors. The footmen move forward to engage my avatar, and two of them are snatched up and swallowed whole in the blink of an eye. This causes a general panic to set in and all the heathens rout. But the Last footmen is not quick enough and becomes another tasty morsel.

Jorgun adds another 4 kills and 9 trophies to his tally, solo battle gaining him valuable experience that further improves his fighting prowess. He now has 2 stars and has moved to the top of the HoF. The proceeds from the Eribonese farms (52g) increase my income by 15%.

The Seithkona Urd, and her bodyguard of 5 Jotun spearmen, arrive at Pythium and join in the siege.

The number of dissenters declines by one in the Black Alps, and by two in Gwyrth. The faithful also gain a foothold in the province of Helmshire (#59, just south of Eribon, and up the other river from Saeborea). Slowly increasing dissent in the beseiged province of Pythium lowers revenues there by 3 gold. That it is I that receives this income, and not the Pythium pretender, is all that matters. The unrest will be dealt with after my inevitable victory.

The Seithkona Sigyn joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieve mastery of the second rank of 'Enchantment' magics and are expected to complete the third next month. I give instructions that study begin on the magics of arcane item Construction once the goal in Enchantment magics is reached. The newfound Enchantment lore enables my avatar to add the spell of Astral Weapons to its pre-battle preparations. This will enable it to ignore the non-natural armors of opponents when striking with its venomous fangs.

My realm has:
 __5 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 272 Treasury. 395 Income. (+49) 127 Upkeep. (+16) 131 Resources in the capital. (unchanged)
Gem income is:
 +3 Astral (30) +1 Death (10) +2 Nature (15)
With the added income from my latest conquest, I feel that I can afford to invite a third Norna sister to join my coven, so I command that the appropriate gifts and celebration be prepared, and I also command that another Jotun Spearman be readied in case the siege of Pythium should continue longer than I anticipate. These preparations drain the treasury of 250 coins, and I continue to defer bolstering provincial defenses.

I give command of the Jotuns at Pythium over to Bove, and I charge my prophet Grymis with proselytizing to the inhabitants in the farmlands surrounding the citadel. Pythium's dominion here is -2, and if I can knock it back to zero I will kill this pretender without ever having to fight him. It's worth the attempt, though it's unlikely as my base dominion is only 5 and may not be enough for this. Still, weakening the enemy dominion will make my pretender stronger should I be forced to use him in a castle assault, plus it helps shift the local scales to my benefit. My avatar, still alone, heads north to the plains of Bel (#92), where an estimated score of independent heavy foot and heavy cavalry await. The newly-recruited human commander in the Black Alps is sent to Jotunheim to gather the Jotuns in the garrison there. Actually, I never leave troops in garrison. I always assign them as bodyguards until some commander carries them away to battle. Finally, I call on Seithkona Sigyn to Revive a Mound King, which expends 3 of the death gems in my vaults, and set Seithkona Edda to the task of the Reanimation of long dead Jotuns, for which another 5 death gems are disbursed.

PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital, have dropped to Cold-1. I do not know why this has happened in the midst of winter, with no related events reported, and Pythium's dominion not increasing.

I repeat a small, but careless mistake this turn:
 I leave the scout Bdvar in place for a seventh consecutive month in Saeborea.<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 11, 2004, 14:22: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital, have dropped to Cold-1. I do not know why this has happened in the midst of winter, with no related events reported, and Pythium's dominion not increasing.

I repeat a small, but careless mistake this turn:
 I leave the scout Bdvar in place for a seventh consecutive month in Saeborea.<center>to be continued ...</center> Yeah, that cold fluctation thing is a bit of a nuisance. This is actually what fuels the push towards Cold-3: Because even if you take Cold 2 as preferred, odds are that the random fluctuation will likely kick it towards Cold 1 or so anyway, and you'll be penalized just as much as if you were at Cold 3 all the time, whereas being Cold-3 will likely cause it to drift upwards to Cold 2, which is preferred anyway.

I personally find the "N" key invaluable and tap it constantly before ending my turn, to see if I've missed anyone. "Defend" is rarely what you want to be doing anyway. This may prevent "neglected commander" in the future.

Patrik

February 11th, 2004, 12:23 PM

Arryn, I must add that I really like your AAR, especially the style. I don't think it's hard to follow and most of the relevant information is there. The only thing I lack is total number of held provinces in your turn summary.

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Patrik:
Arryn, I must add that I really like your AAR, especially the style. I don't think it's hard to follow and most of the relevant information is there. The only thing I lack is total number of held provinces in your turn summary.Thanks Pat. I've gone back and added the info you desire to turns 4-10. Is there anything else that anyone would like to see?

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Yeah, that cold fluctation thing is a bit of a nuisance. This is actually what fuels the push towards Cold-3: Because even if you take Cold 2 as preferred, odds are that the random fluctuation will likely kick it towards Cold 1 or so anyway, and you'll be penalized just as much as if you were at Cold 3 all the time, whereas being Cold-3 will likely cause it to drift upwards to Cold 2, which is preferred anyway.You've a point that bears consideration. I did think about it while I was playing with the scales on this game, but my choices for what to do with the added design points, at least in my mind, weren't better than leaving it at Cold-2. Of course, at the time, I was unaware of fluctuations, else I might have made a different decision. I could have taken Astral back up to 5 (the best choice in retrospect), or Magic to 3, or Misfortune down to 1, or Growth to 1, or raised Dominion from 5 to 7 (IIRC). I personally find the "N" key invaluable and tap it constantly before ending my turn, to see if I've missed anyone. "Defend" is rarely what you want to be doing anyway. This may prevent "neglected commander" in the future. I shall remember this, for turns 19+. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 04:54 PM

BTW, folks, I overlooked the fact that when I captured the Black Alps, circa turns 4-7, that it contained the level-0 magic site White Man Hill, which gives each turn:
 50 supply +1 nature gem increased growth
My apologies if anyone's been puzzling over the discrepancy in my gem income all this time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Pillin

February 11th, 2004, 05:33 PM

Personally I would take use the points from cold 3 to get growth 1, that way you make up for any loss in supplies and somewhat for the loss in income http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 07:58 PM

<center>Turn #11, Late Winter of Year 1
A disability.</center>
This deep into winter, there are no travellers bringing word from afar of events in distant lands.

The siege of Pythium enters its fourth month. Meanwhile, my avatar seeks more horseflesh in the plains of Bel. My faith has gained a foothold here, but many heathens abound still. The independent defenders oppose my arrival with a much lighter than expected force of two mounted commanders, and a half-dozen each of heavy cavalry and heavy footmen. Jorgun begins the battle again at the rear of the field, which allows enough time to prepare spells of Personal Luck and Body Ethereal before the enemy cavalry charge arrives. My avatar receives the charge, while preparing to cast Astral Weapon, and takes four hits (for a total of -11HPs), with one of them finding a weak spot in Jorgun's scales and wounding him, which weakens him noticeably (-4 Str) though his remaining strength (22) is still better than that of most Jotuns. The cavalry, affected by my avatar's fearsome presence rout immediately after failing to kill him, never even drawing their swords. Jorgun eats one of the mounts and it's rider as the rest flee. The footmen and commanders move forward to engage the Wyrm, and one of the footmen is struck and poisoned. This, coupled with Jorgun's aura of fear is enough to rout the remaining force. As they turn to flee, my avatar has one of the footmen as an after-dinner snack.

Jorgun adds another 2 kills and 7 trophies to his tally. The proceeds from the plains of Bel (45g) increase my income by a further 11%.

The human commander Ualgo arrives in Jotunheim from his home in the Alps.

The number of dissenters declines by one in the Black Alps and Gwyrth, but rises by one in Eribon after the departure of my avatar. Damnable snake-lovers! Oddly enough, the peasants of Pythium itself begin to grow accustomed to the surprisingly benign presence of my giants, who do not pillage or molest young virgins, so unrest there drops back down (by one) to the same level as when the citadel was invested.

The Norna Rimdriva joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieve mastery of the third rank of 'Enchantment' and first rank of 'Construction' magics. This Enchantment lorecraft enables my avatar to add the spell of Astral Shield to its pre-battle preparations. This will enable it to ignore most physical attacks, unless the attacker is very resistant to magic.

The ancient king Tahmar is brought forth from burial in his mound, as are eight long dead Jotuns and two humans, all in rusted chain or scale armors.

My realm has:
 __6 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 309 Treasury. 442 Income. (+47) 144 Upkeep. (+17) 131 Resources in the capital. (unchanged) _65 RPs
Gem income is:
 +3 Astral (33) +1 Death (03) +2 Nature (17)
I command that another of the Seithkona in Jotunheim join my coven, and I also command that 4 Jotun Huskarls and a Jotun Spearman be readied, and a Jotun militia (and herse) in both Eribon and Bel are to be recruited as provincial defenders. These preparations drain the treasury of 262 coins

My prophet Grymis has failed to make progress proselytizing to the inhabitants in the farmlands surrounding the citadel of Pythium, but he continues to preach. My avatar, still alone, continues north into the wastes known as the Well of All Waters (#125), which may have as many as 30 amazons and at least one gryphon rider. Tahmar, the half-score longdead, and a half-dozen Jotun spearmen set out for the Alps, on their way to join the encampment at Pythium. Ualgo remains behind in the castle to command the Jotuns soon to be recruited.

PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital and the adjacent Iron Range (both at Cold-2), remain at Cold-1.

I repeat a small, but careless mistake this turn:
 I leave the scout Bdvar in place for an eigth consecutive month in Saeborea.<center>to be continued ...</center>

[ February 11, 2004, 18:01: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Oddly enough, the peasants of Pythium itself begin to grow accustomed to the surprisingly benign presence of my giants, who do not pillage or molest young virginsHeh. Giants molesting virgins. THAT would be a strange sight to see. Haven't started the blood machine, then?

Afflictions are always so annoying, and more or less inevitable, with a combat pretender. Planning to get that cured at some point via your research in enchantment?

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
This Enchantment lorecraft enables my avatar to add the spell of Astral Shield to its pre-battle preparations. This will enable it to ignore most physical attacks, unless the attacker is very resistant to magic.I wasn't aware Astral Shield actually prevented physical attacks from striking you. I thought it merely tacked on large amounts of fatigue to somebody that attacks you, until they pass out and get stuck there. Makes them a tasty snack while it Lasts, unless everyone becomes paralyzed and then your god is autokilled by a stalled battle.

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Pillin:
Personally I would take use the points from cold 3 to get growth 1, that way you make up for any loss in supplies and somewhat for the loss in income http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The more I think about it, the more the idea appeals to me to have taken Cold-3 and used the points for Water-1, just to get the spell Quickness early on. It would have proved very useful in the battles thus far.

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Haven't started the blood machine, then?

Afflictions are always so annoying, and more or less inevitable, with a combat pretender. Planning to get that cured at some point via your research in enchantment? First, the Utgard theme is bloodless. Second, I detest the whole idea of blood magic. It offends my morals, even if this is a game. Those poor, sad, screaming girls on the replays get to me. 'Nuff said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I'll eventually cast Gift of Health. But not anytime soon.

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
First, the Utgard theme is bloodless. Second, I detest the whole idea of blood magic. It offends my morals, even if this is a game. Those poor, sad, screaming girls on the replays get to me. 'Nuff said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Utgard is bloodless? I'm pretty sure that Utgard still has the Skrattis, which have at least one, maybe two ranks in blood, or certainly did the LAST time I played....and I'm pretty sure that was Utgard, since I remember the Nornas and Seithkonas.

Screaming....mmmmm.....you make it sound so much more interesting. If there was actual screaming noises, I'd be so entirely hooked on blood magic. I'm such a horrible person. Muhahahaha.

[ February 11, 2004, 21:07: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I wasn't aware Astral Shield actually prevented physical attacks from striking you. I thought it merely tacked on large amounts of fatigue to somebody that attacks you, until they pass out and get stuck there. Makes them a tasty snack while it Lasts, unless everyone becomes paralyzed and then your god is autokilled by a stalled battle. Page 103 states that the attacker has to pass a MR check to hurt you. Failure to pass means that you take no damage, and that the attacker becomes paralyzed (via mind bLast), if I read the spell correctly. The MR check is made tougher if the caster's astral level exceeds the casting minimum.

My observation of replays shows that most attackers become snacksicles.

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Utgard is bloodless? I'm pretty sure that Utgard still has the Skrattis, which have at least one, maybe two ranks in blood, or certainly did the LAST time I played....and I'm pretty sure that was Utgard, since I remember the Nornas and Seithkonas.Your memory is faulty. Try checking again. Skratti are in the other two themes.

The only chance is that a Norna gets a Blood with her 1 random. And the Norna is most likely to increase one of the 3 paths she already has, though I have seen Nornas with a Blood.

[ February 11, 2004, 21:12: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:11 PM

Say, when does the poor, neglected Bdvar finally get the love and attention he deserves, anyway? Or does he remain forgotten all the way up to the current turn, T18?

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Say, when does the poor, neglected Bdvar finally get the love and attention he deserves, anyway? Or does he remain forgotten all the way up to the current turn, T18? You'll just have to wait and see, won't ya? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:15 PM

Are you going to continue doing a report for every single turn? This is going to be an awfully long report if you do. An Orania game will Last for at least maybe 100 turns or so...and at the present rate of post accumulation, we've picked up about 90+ Posts over the course of about 10 turns. At about 9 Posts per turn, this is going to balloon into a monstrous, 900-post megathread before you finish that game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Are you going to continue doing a report for every single turn?I'll continue in this fashion until the consensus is that folks want something different.

Is there a thread capacity limit? Do we care? Seeing as many of the Posts have your name in them somewhere ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:23 PM

Hey, anything worth doing is worth doing with excessive force, that's what I always say. Let's see if we can't beat out the game bug thread, at 395 Posts!

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Hey, anything worth doing is worth doing with excessive force, that's what I always say.Indeed! Let's see if we can't beat out the game bug thread, at 395 Posts!No sweat.

Now hush for a while and let me finish typing up turn 12. I had it almost done (doing it all in the forum editor) and my machine crashed. This time I'm typing it in a text editor, with frequent saves, and will just cut & paste it in. I loathe losing over an hour's hard work.

[ February 11, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Arryn ]

IKerensky

February 11th, 2004, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Norfleet:
Utgard is bloodless? I'm pretty sure that Utgard still has the Skrattis, which have at least one, maybe two ranks in blood, or certainly did the LAST time I played....and I'm pretty sure that was Utgard, since I remember the Nornas and Seithkonas.Your memory is faulty. Try checking again. Skratti are in the other two themes.

The only chance is that a Norna gets a Blood with her 1 random. And the Norna is most likely to increase one of the 3 paths she already has, though I have seen Nornas with a Blood. <hr /></blockquote>WellI just created a game with Utgard theme and Skratti ARE IN IT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Guess who's memory is what ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Or is it a problem of game Version ? or mods ?

[ February 11, 2004, 21:33: Message edited by: IKerensky ]

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by IKerensky:
Well I just created a game with Utgard theme and Skratti ARE IN IT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Guess who's memory is what ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Or is it a problem of game Version ? or mods ? Urk, my very, very bad. I was looking for a human-sized caster and the Skratti are giant-sized, so I'd overlooked them. I profusely apologize.

[ February 11, 2004, 21:39: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by IKerensky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
Your memory is faulty. Try checking again. Skratti are in the other two themes.
WellI just created a game with Utgard theme and Skratti ARE IN IT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Guess who's memory is what ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>Hah! Victory is mine! I knew I wasn't THAT senile!

Can't be mods or Versions, because Skratti were there in both 2.02 and 2.06, and I don't have any mods affecting Skrattis. They were there even before I installed the one and only mod I use, the Caelum fix.

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
If your game has Seithkona and Nornas then it should not have Skratti. Are you sure you are playing Utgard? Do you have the Well of Urd site in your capital? Well of Urd. Check. Seithkonas. Check. Nornas. Check. Skrattis. Check.

IKerensky

February 11th, 2004, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IKerensky:
Well I just created a game with Utgard theme and Skratti ARE IN IT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Guess who's memory is what ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Or is it a problem of game Version ? or mods ? If your game has Seithkona and Nornas then it should not have Skratti. Are you sure you are playing Utgard? Do you have the Well of Urd site in your capital? <hr /></blockquote>Yes it is, in fact I checked and Skrati are in the 3 themes. And they aren't even capitole troups as Norna are in Utgard.

February 11th, 2004, 11:40 PM

I've got plenty of Scratti in my Utgard theme. Which is good because otherwise I'd have a hard time casting Illwinter and Ice Devils http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 11, 2004, 21:41: Message edited by: Zen ]

fahdiz

February 11th, 2004, 11:40 PM

The unit-by-nation sheets over at Sunray's library show Skratti as available in the Utgard theme.

IKerensky

February 11th, 2004, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IKerensky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
Your memory is faulty. Try checking again. Skratti are in the other two themes.
WellI just created a game with Utgard theme and Skratti ARE IN IT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Guess who's memory is what ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>Hah! Victory is mine! I knew I wasn't THAT senile!

Can't be mods or Versions, because Skratti were there in both 2.02 and 2.06, and I don't have any mods affecting Skrattis. They were there even before I installed the one and only mod I use, the Caelum fix. <hr /></blockquote>I was refering to Arryn which is using a lot of mods IIRC.

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Hah! Victory is mine! I knew I wasn't THAT senile!No, I'm the senile one. Bdvar is proof of that.

The good news is that I have a W2 caster I didn't know I had. Damn. I've gone from turn 12 to 18 having water gem income, too.

There's nothing quite like making a stupid foot-in-mouth mistake to draw the thread lurkers out in force. heh

[ February 11, 2004, 21:45: Message edited by: Arryn ]

IKerensky

February 11th, 2004, 11:44 PM

Dont be too hard on you Arryn all those geants looks alike anyway, I usually took my scouts for my skratti http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

BTW perhaps you could do like at paradox forums and make a separate thread for comments about the AAR http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 11, 2004, 21:45: Message edited by: IKerensky ]

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
The good news is that I have a W2 caster I didn't know I had. Damn. I've gone from turn 12 to 18 having water gem income, too. Hell yes. Time to start cranking out those clams, too. That investment in Astral income will pay off bigtime later....especially when you plow that income right back into scanning every province you own with Acashic Record and stuff. Great spell on a big map like Orania, and the long game you're undoubtedly in for. Especially since you surely can acquire at least one or more Astral-3 Nornas, or simply make a Starshine Cap.

Originally posted by IKerensky:
BTW perhaps you could do like at paradox forums and make a separate thread for comments about the AAR http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I like to believe that the large number of comments is a sign of how much we all love the AAR.

[ February 11, 2004, 21:47: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

February 11th, 2004, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by IKerensky:
Dont be too hard on you Arryn all those geants looks alike anyway, I usually took my scouts for my skratti http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

BTW perhaps you could do like at paradox forums and make a separate thread for comments about the AAR http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The damn Skratti look like the Scout if you're being unobservant (like me) and don't notice the quarterstaff.

I could *try* to have comments in a separate thread, but I seriously doubt people would listen. The type of players that play Dom are not the kind that play HoI or EU2.

Norfleet

February 11th, 2004, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
The damn Skratti look like the Scout if you're being unobservant (like me) and don't notice the quarterstaff.Heh. It's usually the scout I don't notice: He's a stealthy +0 notice, so I can only see him if I patrol for him anyway, and I never have any reason to build one. At $50 and 11R, for a unit which is functionally identical to the far cheaper $20/3R scout, I'm not sure what the benefit of building the Jotun scout is.

IKerensky

February 12th, 2004, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
The damn Skratti look like the Scout if you're being unobservant (like me) and don't notice the quarterstaff.Heh. It's usually the scout I don't notice: He's a stealthy +0 notice, so I can only see him if I patrol for him anyway, and I never have any reason to build one. At $50 and 11R, for a unit which is functionally identical to the far cheaper $20/3R scout, I'm not sure what the benefit of building the Jotun scout is. <hr /></blockquote>Blessing ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

just for the pleasure to haggle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 12:07 AM

This revelation that I have Skratti is serious enough that I've decide to redo turns 12+. I doubt it'll affect the outcome of my war with Pythium (I'll not say when the castle fell), but it changes how I would have made items and used gems after turn 12. Since no one but myself has seen what happened in turns 12-18 (since the turns haven't been written and posted yet), it won't matter to the AAR. Or not much anyway, other than my having some foreknowledge of what the Pythium pretender has in store for me.

Norfleet

February 12th, 2004, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by IKerensky:
Blessing ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

just for the pleasure to haggle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Well, yeah, you can BLESS them, but blessing and combat isn't really a functional element of a scout anyway. Scouts tend to be engaged in behavior like "lurking in the depths of enemy territory", which precludes blessing anyway, since Jotun hardly has stealth priests, unless you make a scout your prophet, making him perma-blessed no matter what he is anyway, "being a cheapo blood hunter", where his $50/11R cost works against him and strongly favors the cheapo $20 scout (and blessing doesn't help) and "baggage train duty", where you hide and carry the gems and the soup pots for your army....once again, seeing combat is optional and not recommended. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Unless your plan involves sending your scout-prophet and a horde of scouts to attack a province?

licker

February 12th, 2004, 12:13 AM

Well blessing or no, a Jotun scout is more capeable of taking lightly defended provinces in sneak attacks than are normal scouts...

Blessings for Jotun can do wonders for the units too, depending on what paths you have taken, though in the case of Scouts its a bit trickier to get them blessed while they are sneaking. Shroud of the battle saint would work, but probably better equipment to give them if you are serious about trying to use them as a sneak attack force.

I'm not recomending using them for that function, but if you want that function they are better than indie scouts...

Norfleet

February 12th, 2004, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
This revelation that I have Skratti is serious enough that I've decide to redo turns 12+.And if it weren't for all these arguments, you'd never have found out about that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Aren't arguments great?

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
This revelation that I have Skratti is serious enough that I've decide to redo turns 12+.And if it weren't for all these arguments, you'd never have found out about that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Aren't arguments great? <hr /></blockquote>As I said before, the purpose of the AAR is for people to learn, myself included. And so I am. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

February 12th, 2004, 12:40 AM

I forgot to reply about the Fluctuations of Temperature.

The scales of your Dominion are semi at the whim of the game. For no understandable reason they will fluxuate in temperature, order, production, growth, luck and magic (more than likely all of them including turmoil etc, but these are the only ones I really pay attention to).

This is for all nations/themes. The only real exception to this rule seems to be when you choose Heart of Winter/Desert Sun, which holds fairly true to its cold/heat pushing effects.

Pushing your Cold to 3, could potentially set your scales to your preference, or sometimes not, it really depends on whatever game variable is messing with your scales. There are however sites, that provide scale adjustments that can tweak with them so there is no real guarentee that they will stay where they are supposed to.

But the main instance for choosing Cold 2 over 3, is the fact that (most of the time) your capital will remain in your Dominion temperature. Your capital, like your initial castle, has alot to do with the direction you go in the game and having a stable and consistant -5% income loss (0r -3% if you take growth 1) in the only real guarenteed large province you can in a game is a very real factor.

Starting position plays alot into the game and the speed with which you expand, research and a variety of things. So if you found/find that Cold 3 works to your benefit more than your hamperment, I would take it. I personally don't like to count on assurances of randomness (like the fluxuating scale(s)).

E. Albright

February 12th, 2004, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Is there a thread capacity limit? Do we care? Seeing as many of the Posts have your name in them somewhere ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif The largest thread I've seen on the Shrapnel forums would be the SE4 forum's "Babylon 5 Mod" thread at 3608 Posts. It's still open for more, so there's no limit close at hand for yours.

For a more repelant example, tho', one could cite the "Ye New Galactic Bar & Grill & Phong's Head Cantina - After Hours" thread, which weighed in at a revolting 2983 Posts before its locking down. It was commonly refered to as naught but a rank-padding thread, and I must say that this accusation seems rather hard to dispute. The original "Ye Olde" etc. thread was bad enough, and it was only half as long...

[Edit: typo]

[ February 11, 2004, 23:26: Message edited by: E. Albright ]

Psitticine

February 12th, 2004, 01:25 AM

<waving> Hey, Emil! Nice to see you around here!

Pillin

February 12th, 2004, 02:12 AM

Sure getting cold 3 will hurt you alittle, the point is that it will almost certanly hurt others more than its hurting you. It will make the provinces turn cold faster as thats a function of the difference of your scales and the current scales. Also with growth 1 thats in my opinion the best replacement you get (albeit slowly) increased income from your provinces in a long game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

February 12th, 2004, 02:21 AM

It doesn't turn provinces faster to cold by any degree, unless you choose Heart of Winter.

And the same problem comes up, where the only one you know is going to be Cold 2 (or 3) is your home province, you can still under that scale get just as many Cold 1's. It's just on how the sites are set and whatever impact is on the temperature scale. And if you happen to get a game without a heavy variance (it happens probably 50/50)and loss of gold income, poof, you are taking -3% income in your largest starting province as well as most of the provinces you control.

Growth isn't even a 'long game' increase in income. The effect is so minute that it's not even worth mentioning the growth rate unless you are talking in the 100's of turns.

The only reason in my mind to take growth is you need supply and have no access to items to supplement you, or you plan on some savage blood harvesting with heavy patrollers (which growth can even out some of) or you can't up another scale that would increase your income (order, production, luck).

If you want to make sure you have your temperature scale without worrying, take Heart of Winter. It clears it up as well as spreads outside of your dominion.

[ February 12, 2004, 00:26: Message edited by: Zen ]

Norfleet

February 12th, 2004, 02:46 AM

Originally posted by Zen:
If you want to make sure you have your temperature scale without worrying, take Heart of Winter. It clears it up as well as spreads outside of your dominion. Taking Heart of Winter will definitely stabilize your cold scale, but there's one drawback: You can't take Utgard AND Heart of Winter. Meaning if you want to do a Heart of Winter Jotunheim, you're limited to the basic Jotun. No Seithkonas for you! Neifelheim comes with its own Heart of Winter effect, IIRC, but is Cold-3 anyway.

February 12th, 2004, 02:55 AM

Yes, so you have to either go with the chance that you will stabilize your economy for the 75% 3k-8k provinces with the 25% 10k+ as you take them with Cold 3, Growth 1 or give you an across the board -3% loss including your capital.

Or you can take Cold 2 and have 75% 3k-8k, 25% 10k+ provinces giving you 3% Less while your capital gives you 3% more.

Like I said, it's all in your playstyle and what you are willing to accept as a variable. People don't take Misfortune 2 because of the chances of a variable happening, while others do.

In this particular case the one thing almost guarenteed is that your capital will be losing -5% income (or -3% with Growth) which is a factor, like I said, for me as I place more value on initial effects that impact the game than longstanding ones. Especially with how important gold is.

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 03:27 AM

<center>Turn #12, Early Spring of Year 2
Spring water.</center>
An early thaw allows travellers from afar to bring word from Ulm that Tulka the Black Lord, self-styled as the "world's most beloved hero" is the new false prophet of Ninhursag. It appears that his predecessor had his career cut short, by a head. Word also reaches us that someone grandiosely titled a "King Triumphant" speaks for the Machakan pretender Uzumna. I suppose that insects must make greater pretenses.

Caelum makes good on it's declaration of war from this past summer and attacks my capital with a score of magically-summoned Black Hawks (via Call of the Winds). The 25 Jotun militias of the local defense easily deal with them, but the battle frightens a number of influential locals (6 unrest), causing a minor drop in the flow of revenues and resources into the city. I vow to punish Caelum at my earliest convenience for their impudence.

A more positive event is the unexpected harvest of a winter wheat crop in the Black Alps, bringing an extra 30 gold in taxes and quieting the remaining dissenters in the province. There is truth in happiness being be found in a full belly, be it humans and fresh bread, a giant with a haunch of venison, or a Wyrm and an ex-cavalry mount.

The siege of Pythium enters its fifth month, as my avatar is met, in the wasteland named for the magical Well of All Waters, by a Garnet Priestess, a Garnet Sorceress, ten cowed and defenseless sacrificial young virgins, nineteen amazons, and a gryphon rider. Jorgun begins the battle at the rear of the field, which the gryphon promptly reaches, attempting to harrass him during his casting of preparatory spells. After casting his second spell (Body Ethereal), the wyrm takes a moment to deal with the pesky beast next to him and delivers a venomous bite, followed up by another bite that swallows the rider -- and mount -- whole. Tasty. Meanwhile, the foul sorceress sacrifices a half-dozen of the helpless girls in three futile attempts to inflict bleeding wounds on my avatar. Jorgun completes his final spell preparations, casting Astral Shield and Astral Weapon, in time to receive the advancing amazons. A half-dozen of the aggressive females strike at the wyrm only to become instantly paralyzed. Jorgun lashes out and eats two of the immobilized barbarianettes, which induce the rest to run for their lives. The wyrm calmly finishes off (eats) the other four snacksicles, as the fleeing amazons run past the virgin slaves, killing three of them in their panic. One poor, abused slave remains on the field, and my avatar mercifully ends her life -- in a single gulp.

Jorgun adds another 7 kills and 12 trophies to his tally, and discovers the (level-0) magic site known as the Well of All Waters (which provides 3 water gems per month).

Tahmar reaches the Alps with his half-score of longdead and half-dozen Jotun spearmen.

The number of dissenters declines by one in Gwyrth and Bel. Atlantis conquers the Wailwind waters just offshore to the south of my capital. I will have to deal with this situation once I am rid of the Pythium pretender.

The Seithkona Ambla joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the second rank of 'Construction' magics.
The 3 Nornas in the capital reduce the chances of bad events there by 15% each (3 checks). I have 1x 3-Astral, 1x 3-Death, and 1x 2-Nature Norna, which is a prefect split as far as I'm concerned.

My realm has:
 __7 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 346 Treasury. 439 Income. (-3) 161 Upkeep. (+17) 125 Resources in the capital. (-6) _72 RPs
Gem income is:
 +3 Water (03) +3 Astral (36) +1 Death (04) +2 Nature (19)
With the discovery of a water magic site, I command that a Jotun Skratti join my coven so that use can be made of the new magical resource. The sudden attack by Caelum fresh in my memory, I increase the provincial defense of the Iron Range by a half-dozen militia (to 7 total), and raise a half-score defenders at the newly-acquired Well of All Waters. These preparations drain the treasury of 332 coins.

My prophet Grymis makes progress proselytizing to the inhabitants in the farmlands surrounding the citadel of Pythium (dominion changes to -1), and carries on with his preaching. Tahmar, in the Alps with his half-score of longdead and half-dozen Jotun spearmen, continues on his way to join the encampment at Pythium. Ualgo takes command of the newly-recruited Jotuns at the castle and takes to the now oft-used route between Jotunheim and the Alps via Gwyrth. My scout Bdvar is rousted from his hibernation and sent into Helmshire. My avatar, still alone, makes his way towards Pythium by way of the Feral Woods to the south, which have revolted against Pythium's control and appear to be defended by a half-score Vine Men.

PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital and the adjacent Iron Range (both at Cold-2), remain at Cold-1.

Norfleet

February 12th, 2004, 03:41 AM

Woo. Go Bdvar. I suppose the hapless, neglected Bdvar received his attention thanks to the discovery that you have Skrattis? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Woo. Go Bdvar. I suppose the hapless, neglected Bdvar received his attention thanks to the discovery that you have Skrattis? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif 'tis a secret I shan't be tellin ...

Bossemanden

February 12th, 2004, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
The type of players that play Dom are not the kind that play HoI or EU2. Wrong!
Well at least I know of three or four people from the Paradox forums that play both EU2 and Dom2. Granted it is a minority, but we are spreading the word.

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Bossemanden:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Arryn:
The type of players that play Dom are not the kind that play HoI or EU2. Wrong!<hr /></blockquote>I wasn't serious. Your clue should have been that I knew what games Paradox publishes ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I have played all 3 games listed in your sig, BTW. And yes, we are a -- growing -- minority.

CharonJr

February 12th, 2004, 09:39 AM

Just wanted to chime in about Paradox, HoI, EU2 and Victoria besides playing Dom2 here, too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

CharonJr

PS: I really like the style of this AAR

[ February 12, 2004, 07:40: Message edited by: CharonJr ]

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by CharonJr:
PS: I really like the style of this AAR Danke sehr!

CharonJr

February 12th, 2004, 11:03 AM

Gerne ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

And I don't even want to think about what time it is in Houston right now, but about 3 am I would guess... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

CharonJr

Aikamun

February 12th, 2004, 06:54 PM

I like Gift of Health for Jotun. Your troops Last longer than normal troops, if well cared for. The exp stars exponentially increase the value of a Jotun. Enchantment Five also yields Dispel, providing you with two strategies for countering Burden of Time.

Aikamun

[ February 12, 2004, 17:00: Message edited by: Aikamun ]

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Aikamun:
I like Gift of Health for Jotun. Your troops Last longer than normal troops, if well cared for. The exp stars exponentially increase the value of a Jotun.Very true, in my experience in previous SP games. Enchantment Five also yields Dispel, providing you with two strategies for countering Burden of Time.Indeed, however it's worth pointing out that I disabled the two nations most prone to castiung that: Ermor and C'tis. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

February 12th, 2004, 08:33 PM

Personally, I'm thinking Conjuration 5 looks like a good next target. With Construction 4 imminent, the acquisition of water gem income, and the recent rediscovery of Skrattis, it may be time to start producing those Clams to crank out the astrals. In my experience, you can never have too many Astrals: They are by far the most useful gem type in the game. Combine with the fact that there aren't all that many uses for water gems, as most of the water spells I like tend to be either inexpensive, or free combat spells. Most Water GEs, the really heavy sources of gem expenditure, are undesirable for casting or just not that impressive for a non-aquatic nation.

Gift of Health is a good thing to have, but with a puny 19 nature gems in your treasury and a mere 2 per turn, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Takes at least 200 gems to make a GE stick vs. the AI, and anything worth doing is worth doing with excessive force, as I always say. So clearly, a good starting target is Conj-5, for Acashic Record. Search those provinces good and proper.

[ February 12, 2004, 18:33: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Combine with the fact that there aren't all that many uses for water gemsWhat I typically do with water gems is first save enough to get a Sea King (and his 15 sea trolls). The king alone will then give me 1W gem/turn thereafter. Then the king can, with his own gem income, summon another troll every turn. This adds up nicely. I find this a must when I play as R'leyh, but I tend to also do it for other nations with my water gems and casters. The king can also make Quick boots as needed.

Please bear in mind that I do this in addition to making clams with the water income. In the mid-to-late game I burn through quite a few astral gems summoning Angelic Hosts. I just love those move-3, fire-3, holy-4 avenging angels. I can never have too many.

Norfleet

February 12th, 2004, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
The king alone will then give me 1W gem/turn thereafter. Then the king can, with his own gem income, summon another troll every turn. This adds up nicely. I find this a must when I play as R'leyh, but I tend to also do it for other nations with my water gems and casters. The king can also make Quick boots as needed.
Sea King is certainly one method of investment, but his rate of return is rather awful, since you're going to take 30 turns to see a return on that investment. (I'm deducting 15 water gems from the base sea king cost of 45 for the 15 trolls that accompany him, worth 15 gems on their own - The trolls, however, are NOT an investment).

Clams, on the other hand, assuming you didn't want Astrals at all, and only wanted water-to-water, would be a 20 turn investment, assuming you did nothing except build the clams, equip it, and alchemize the astrals produced into water gems at 2 for 1. If your primary concern is the water gems produced by the SK, the ROI on clams is better, and better still if you actually want those Astrals...and it looks like you do, as 3/turn is rather anemic. It gets better if those Astrals are then immediately used to search for more sites via Acashic, which will surely expand your gem income on all sides.

As for the other uses of the Sea King, such as forging those boots of quickness, a Skratti can do that also. You needed the Skratti to summon the Sea King anyway. I personally think you're better off cranking out as many clams as income permits, rather than saving for the Sea King now. If you can summon a Sea King, you can start summoning trolls with your own Skrattis anyway. The Sea King can wait until the gems start pouring in.

[ February 12, 2004, 19:23: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I personally think you're better off cranking out as many clams as income permits, rather than saving for the Sea King now. If you can summon a Sea King, you can start summoning trolls with your own Skrattis anyway. The Sea King can wait until the gems start pouring in. Rest assured that I had already planned to do precisely as you just suggested. My #1 priority is the clams for the extra astral. Otherwise I wouldn't be replaying 6 turns I'd already done. I do have one question, since I've never actually tried this: can you give 2 clams to a leader and thus get 2 gems/turn? Or is the limit 1 clam per leader, as I suspect?

PS - all my mages in my R'leyh game have clams, but just 1 each. That game has 3 sea kings thus far, and about a half-dozen on my fav angels. Plus many other, non-void, summons. Very magic-heavy, as you might expect from the squids.

atul

February 12th, 2004, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
I do have one question, since I've never actually tried this: can you give 2 clams to a leader and thus get 2 gems/turn? You get 2 gems/turn if leader has 2 clams. Works like a dream and makes you very happy for that 'pool' command behind F7.

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by atul:
You get 2 gems/turn if leader has 2 clams.Cool! You just made my day!

PS to all: I need more feedback on what magic school you'd do next ...

[ February 12, 2004, 20:01: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Pillin

February 12th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Hmm.. conjuration, but forget the vine ogres. too little for the mage time.

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Pillin:
Hmm.. conjuration, but forget the vine ogres. too little for the mage time. Really? With 2 mages and 2 crowns I have the gem income to pop out 4 ogres (which don't eat) per turn, and only lose 1/6 of my (current) RPs for the effort, even less of a hit as I get more Seithkonas. The vine critters are pretty tough. Still not worthwhile you think?

Pillin

February 12th, 2004, 10:36 PM

Personally I dont feel they are worth the time, your mage could be put to better use than summoning those. If you like em thats up to you tho http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by Pillin:
Personally I dont feel they are worth the time, your mage could be put to better use than summoning those. I'm truly not trying to argue. What I'd like to understand, as it will help me I think, is to know *why* you don't feel they are worth the time. The main drawback that I can see is that it slows down my research by a bit. The extra speed of research is better than a few, no-food, tough cannon-fodder per turn? Or is there something else I'm missing? (there are so many subtleties to Dom)

Pillin

February 12th, 2004, 10:57 PM

Yes thats basicly it, you have to set mages with nature of atleast 3 to summon them, thats pretty high magics compared to the creature you get. Those mages could instead be emplyed to search for sites, do research or perhaps support your armies.

PS. Im still a newbie too, so this might not be correct.

licker

February 12th, 2004, 11:08 PM

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Pillin:
Yes thats basicly it, you have to set mages with nature of atleast 3 to summon them, thats pretty high magics compared to the creature you get. Those mages could instead be emplyed to search for sites, do research or perhaps support your armies.They do need N3 to summon. That's my N2 Norna with a Thistle Mace (plus the Ivy Crown to get the extra Ogre). Or any of my Seithkonas with the Mace and another (expensive) item I'll need Construction-6 to get. I plan to get the Norna to N5, eventually, for GoH, so making a Thistle Mace is a necessary step towards that anyway. Taking one of my 3 Norns out of RP isn't so bad, given my constant addition of new Seithkonas each turn.

I almost never send mages out site-searching. That's what I use Acashic for. And I think that I have enough mages to both support my research and my one army. At least for now. The mages supporting troops would be much more important if I had decent offensive spells.

The biggest hit I take is the loss of half my meager N gem income.

Thoughts?

I need massive amounts of N gems to be able to make items and empower to get to the 5N (from 2N) I'll need for GoH. So Enchantment, for now, isn't a real good choice of study I think.

There are many nice L6 construction items I'd like to have, but my gem income is a tad weak to support the amount of items I'd like to make.

That pretty well narrows the field between Conjuration and Evocation ...

Norfleet

February 12th, 2004, 11:29 PM

I'd go with Conjuration. As you yourself noted, your gem income remains presently anemic....this isn't going to improve much unless you start doing some more band-scanning for sites. At the rather poor mage-time ratios for vinecreature summonings, plus that it'll likely take you a turn or two to even get set up, then move all your newly summoned creatures to the front, it'll be at least a dozen turns or so before they start showing up in useful quantities. Better to work on getting the gem machine rolling, which will greatly expand your future options.

Arryn

February 12th, 2004, 11:59 PM

<center>Turn #13, Spring of Year 2
Woodland surprise.</center>

This month there are no travellers bringing word from afar of events in distant lands.

While digging in a ravine in the Well of All Waters for more water gems, the prospectors find a single earth gem.

My force at Pythium, in this sixth month of the siege, breach the walls of the citadel!

In the Feral Woods, my avatar confronts a druid, nine Vine Men, and three Vine Ogres. Jorgun begins in the very rear, as has been his tactic for the past few months. Defensive spell scripting is: Personal Luck, Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Resist Magic, and Astral Weapon. Followed by 'attack closest'. The wyrm, an unrepentant carnivore and detesting such vegetarian fare, nonetheless eats all of the vine creatures, taking numerous hits (36 HPs worth) while dining, despite his tough physical and magical defenses. The druid, after casting a pair of defensive spells, fruitlessly attempts to put my avatar to sleep no less than five times. Stupidly stubborn, or just not very creative of him. After all his leafy creatures are no more, he flees the field, and goes into deep hiding in the woods, never to be seen again.

Jorgun adds 12 kills and 17 trophies to his tally! He discovers a laboratory in the Feral Woods that was built by Pythium. This is very fortunate for me, as I will be able to equip my avatar for the coming castle-storming with a few magical items, built using my mages' recently-gained construction skills, without the delay entailed in ferrying items from Jotunheim. It will also permit me to use my avatar for magical research as the items are built by other mages.

Tahmar arrives in Pythium with his half-score of longdead and half-dozen Jotun spearmen, while Bdvar reports from Helmshire the presence of some two-score fanatics (aka: modded militia), archers, and heavy footmen.

The number of dissenters declines by one in the Iron Range, Gwyrth and Eribon, and by two in Bel and the Well of All Waters.

The Skratti Tunne joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the third rank of 'Construction' magics, and report that they expect to achieve the much-desired fourth rank by next month. As this, fourth, level will be sufficient for my needs at present, I instruct that they should commence studies into 'Conjuration' magics immediately.
This Skratti has 2W, 1N, and 2B. I was hoping for 3W, but 1N is very nice.

My realm has:
 __8 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 291 Treasury. 472 Income. (+33) 178 Upkeep. (+17) 126 Resources in the capital. (+1) _82 RPs
Gem income is:
 +3 Water (06) +0 Earth (01) +3 Astral (39) +1 Death (05) +2 Nature (21)
I recruit a Seithkona to join my coven, as well as a Jotun spearman and four Jotun huskarls (w/spear). I increase the provincial defense of the Iron Range to ten Jotun militias (+3 increase), and raise one provincial defender in the Feral Woods. These preparations drain the treasury of 288 coins.

My prophet Grymis has made no further progress proselytizing to the inhabitants of the farmlands surrounding the citadel of Pythium this month, but continues his preaching as there remain a stubborn core of adherents to the snake faith. Tahmar, handing over his longdead troops to Urd, and the living ones to Bove, heads back to the Alps. Ualgo and his five Jotun bodyguards march from the Alps to join the camp at Pythium. From Helmshire, Bdvar next heads east into the plains of Tesifon (#58). My avatar remains in the lab within the Feral Woods, conducting magical research, and spreading his influence (dominion) into the area. The Seithkona Sigyn commences construction of a Horror Helm (for Jorgun), and all 5 of the death gems in the treasury are set aside for this task.

PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital and the adjacent Iron Range (both at Cold-2), remain at Cold-1.

licker

February 13th, 2004, 12:02 AM

Why not Hauspeux then? I don't see Acashac Record as really being worth its cost other than for a few provinces that you havn't gotten to. I'd suggest taking one (or more) N2 mages and hauspexing your provinces if you don't want to take one out on tour (need N3 for best results if you search by hand).

Arryn

February 13th, 2004, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by licker:
I'd suggest taking one (or more) N2 mages and hauspexing your provinces if you don't want to take one out on tour (need N3 for best results if you search by hand). I had not thought of this. Thanks. I'll have to consider it, carefully. BTW, I only have 1 N2 mage. But I have lots of N1s.

IKerensky

February 13th, 2004, 12:21 AM

Well I guess using only your prophet you will need luck to out preach his god and/or prophet. Stacking with your own God definitely should have helped, or joining more priest. As I guess he got 3 attempts to raise his dominion each turn while you make only one to lower it ( perhaps he get more, perhaps only two, is his prophet still alive ? ).

Arryn

February 13th, 2004, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by IKerensky:
is his prophet still alive ? ). His prophet is dead, and my god is in the adjacent province.

I do not expect to kill Pythium by preaching him out. I would be very very lucky to do that. Now that I have his dominion down to -1, I am happy just to keep it there.

I will say now, though, that in one of the turns (between 12 and 18) that I threw away I did preach his dom down to zero in the capital. It didn't kill him because another, independent, province still had his dom. I didn't have the patience to preach any others down, so I just stormed the citadel as the most expedient solution. It did cost me half my army though. An ugly battle. I do not know how I will fare this time. We shall see ...

Arryn

February 13th, 2004, 02:33 AM

My magical powers currently encompass:
 Alteration-3 Enchantment-3 Construction-3 (will be 4 this coming turn)
I have 22 spare RPs over what I need to get Construction-4. My question is this: which school would you research next in my position? Possibilities I'm considering are:
 Conjuration (to L3 for Vine Ogres; L5 for Acashic Record; L6 for summons such as Harbinger for an air mage, or Sea King for water mage w/1 free gem/turn & 15 sea trolls; L7 for Angelic Host, a fire-3 mage) Enchantment (to L5 for Gift of Health, Eyes of God) Construction (to L6 for Boots of Quickness for my mages, etc.) Evocation (to L4+ for Nether Bolt, etc.)
BTW, FYI, I'm holding on completing turn #13 until I decide what to do next, magically. All other actions for the turn have been done.

[ February 12, 2004, 12:41: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 13th, 2004, 05:37 PM

BTW, I forgot to mention that when I took the Well of All Waters, that I can recruit 1F2B Garnet Sorceresses & 1F1B2H Garnet Priestesses there (if I build the appropriate structures). Without fire gem income for now I don't think they'd do me any good, but later on they will likely be a useful addition to my army.

Comments are welcome, as always.

PS - Turn #14 is in progress. I've been having to do a lot of thinking about how I wish to proceed, so I've taken my time with this turn. It'll be posted later today.

Arryn

February 13th, 2004, 07:24 PM

<center>Turn #14, Late Spring of Year 2
Lull before the storm.</center>

It has been a quiet Spring season, and there are no travellers bringing word from afar of events in distant lands this month.

My force at Pythium continues the siege of the citadel into a seventh month, while the defenders within must surely wonder why my army does not storm through the breached gate.

Jorgun equips a newly-fabricated magical Horror helm, increasing the potency of his fearsome presence (to +5).

Tahmar arrives at the Alps, while Bdvar reports from Tesifon the presence of approximately 30 light footmen. Ualgo arrives at Pythium with reinforcements of 5 Jotuns, bringing the total troop strngth at the siege to 34 Jotuns (not counting leaders).

The number of dissenters declines by one in Gwyrth and Bel, and by two in the Iron Range, Feral Woods, and the Well of All Waters. It rises by one in Eribon. My faith takes root in the provinces of Isurian (#47, just south of Helmshire) and Fas Dir (#34, 2 provinces southwest of Isurian, spread there by way of the Wailwind Waters). Influence that I suspect is from Atlantis causes the level of faith to drop to 40% in independent Zenthra, while it grows to 40% in next-door Jotunheim itself.

The Seithkona Modgunn joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the fourth rank of 'Construction' and first rank in 'Conjuration' magics. Studies continue in Conjuration.

My realm has:
 __8 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 280 Treasury. 471 Income. (-1) 195 Upkeep. (+17) 126 Resources in the capital. (unchanged) _39 RPs
Gem income is:
 +3 Water (09) +0 Earth (01) +3 Astral (42) +1 Death (01) +2 Nature (23)
In Jotunheim I recruit a Seithkona to join my coven, as well as a Jotun spearman and four Jotun huskarls (w/spear). I recruit a human scout in Eribon. These preparations drain the treasury of all 280 coins.

I command all seven of my Seithkona to manufacture various magical items: 1x Pendant of Luck, 3x Lucky Coins, 3x Amulets of Antimagic. 35 of the astral gems in the treasury are set aside for this task. The items are intended to be distributed as follows: Pendant & Amulet to Jorgun, Coin & Amulet to both Bove and Grymis, Coin to Urd. The Coins/Pendant will allow me to queue some other spell in place of Personal Luck for Urd and Jorgun, and to give Bove and Grymis luck as well. Preparing to face a pretender, I feel it may be useful to improve my commanders' MR, hence the amulets.

Tahmar, in the Alps, continues on the route back to Jotunheim, to pick up reinforcements. Ualgo and Urd leave the siege of Pythium and move to the lab in the adjacent Feral Woods to pick up the magical items that will be fabricated. From Tesifon, Bdvar heads further east into the wastelands of the Three Pillars (#60), a land that may possess a hidden magical site. (it's a VP province, and most have magic sites in them on the Orania map)

My prophet Grymis manages to sway the Last remaining adherents to snake-worship amongst the inhabitants of the farmlands surrounding the citadel of Pythium this month. Alas, it appears the Pythium pretender must possess worshippers elsewhere since I still feel his presence within the citadel. Rather than storm the citadel, and take losses I'd prefer to avoid if there's another viable strategy, I decide to make the attempt to eliminate the Pythium pretender by stamping out all traces of his faith. To this end I send Grymis into Eribon, which I control, with the intent of extinguishing the slight negative dominion there (-1). My avatar moves west from the lab in Feral Woods to the plains of Ultima Typhia (#111, and also with -1 dominion), which are reported to contain some 30 heavy foot, fanatics, and archers. This may be my wyrm's most-challenging solitaire battle, especially if the report has underestimated the numbers of the defenders.

PS - All provinces with positive dominion, except my capital and the adjacent Iron Range (both at Cold-2), remain at Cold-1.

Arryn

February 14th, 2004, 02:37 AM

<center>Turn #15, Early Summer Spring of Year 2
Omens.</center>

The advent of summer brings travellers from afar with word that a Centaur Commander has been appointed as the false prophet of the Pangaean pretender Chillsoul.

A foolish peasant, faint from the summer's heat claims to have seen an ill omen within the Well of All Waters. Rumors spread rapidly throughout the province before cooler heads can put a stop to it, raising fears markedly (+28 to a level of 33).

My force at Pythium continues the siege of the citadel into an eigth month. I can only hope that I may be starving whatever defenders may lay in wait within.

In Ultima Typhia, my avatar Jorgun faces a priest, 3 commanders, 15 heavy footmen, 8 fanatics, and 6 archers. I use the same formation and tactics as in previous battles, and they prove to be no real challenge at all, contrary to my concerns. The wyrm dines very well in this engagement, adding another 15 kills and 14 trophies to his tally. Jorgun gets his 3rd experience star. I discover that the adjacent province to the west of Hoburgdorf (#106) is under the domination of Ashikaga, with 40% of the populace there supporting false faith. Fortunately, at this time, Ashikaga has no mobile force in the province. I shall have to keep a wary watch on this new border to my realm.

Urd and Ualgo arrive in the Feral Woods, and equip all of the newly-made magical items waiting in the lab. Tahmar arrives back at the Jotun castle. Bdvar reports from the Three Pillars the presence of approximately 30 light footmen and fanatics. He does not discover any easily-found magic sites.

The number of dissenters declines by one in Eribon, and by two in the Iron Range. The level of faith climbs once again to 50% in independent Zenthra, and my avatar's presence in Ultima Typhia inspires 10% of the inhabitants to convert to the proper faith, while also eliminating all false worship. In the absence of my prophet's preaching, 10% of the populace of Pythium once again take up snake-worship.

The Seithkona Driva joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the second rank in 'Conjuration' magics. Research continues in this school. The human scout Oedre joins my forces in Eribon.

My realm has:
 __9 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 283 Treasury. 502 Income. (+31) 214 Upkeep. (+19) 127 Resources in the capital. (+1) _86 RPs
Gem income is:
 +3 Water (12) +0 Earth (01) +3 Astral (10) +1 Death (02) +2 Nature (25)
In Jotunheim I recruit 2 Jotun spearman, and I raise a half-dozen provincial defenders in the newly-acquired plains of Ultima Typhia. These preparations drain the treasury of 81 coins.

I reduce the taxation of the Well of All Waters to zero to quickly silence dissent there.

I command my Skratti to construct a Clam of Pearls, and 10 water gems are set aside for this task.

Tahmar collects the half-score Jotuns waiting in Jotunheim and heads back towards the Alps. Ualgo and Urd, carrying many magical items, march back to Pythium. From the Three Pillars, Bdvar heads further east into the plains of Pzucz (#57). I send Oedre from Eribon to Ultima Typhia, so that he may scout out the Ashikagans to the west in the near future.

My prophet Grymis begins work on building a temple in Eribon. The purpose is twofold. First, it will enhance the spread of the faith both in the province and throughout the world. Second, it allows for Grymis to return to Pythium and for dominion in Eribon to still be pushed. My avatar, his purpose for being in Ultima Typhia fulfilled, heads for Pythium.

[ February 14, 2004, 01:17: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 14th, 2004, 10:24 PM

Methinks the AAR is losing a bit of steam. Not much interesting happening in the past 3 turns to touch off a huge argument.

Arryn

February 14th, 2004, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Methinks the AAR is losing a bit of steam. Not much interesting happening in the past 3 turns to touch off a huge argument. Well, either I'm doing something right with how I'm managing my nation, or people have stopped giving a hoot. Or it may just be that today is a day that most players who have significant others (gads how that PC term annoys me) tend to spend doing something other than hanging out in front of a screen and keyboard typing away.

Stick around, I have half of turn 17 and turn 18 yet to type up, and they should be a tad more interesting. Of course, you're welcome to study the past few turns and provide an analytical critique rather than just say it's been unexciting (however true that is), if you want to stir something up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Norfleet

February 14th, 2004, 11:13 PM

Bit hard to do now. You seem to be rolling along at a fair clip, and haven't made any particularly controversial moves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Norfleet

February 14th, 2004, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Or it may just be that today is a day that most players who have significant others (gads how that PC term annoys me) tend to spend doing something other than hanging out in front of a screen and keyboard typing away.Pfah. The only true St. Valentine's Day commemoration is that of the 1929 St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

Arryn

February 15th, 2004, 01:34 AM

<center>Turn #17, Late Summer of Year 2
Into the breach!</center>

Travellers from afar bring word that a Hoplite Commander has been appointed as the false prophet of the Arcoscephalene pretender Falco. It appears their previous prophet, the Strategos that was appointed eleven months ago, did not have a winning strategy for personal survival.

A young magical apprentice from Ultima Typhia stumbles upon a method to distill the summer's heat into fifteen magical fire gems.

My force at Pythium continues the siege of the citadel into this tenth, and what I intend to be, final month.

Tahmar arrives at the siege camp with reinforcements of a half-score Jotuns. Ualgo arrives at the Alps, along his way to Jotunheim. Bdvar reports some two-score draconians and wyverns (yikes!) in the Dragon Jaws. More significantly, he also reports that the plains of Rhas (#25) to the southeast are held by Marignon. The most important discovery is that made by Oedre in Hoburgdorf. Along with the routine reporting of 3 regular troops of a type he is unable to ascertain, and a small inherent provincial defense force, he has located the Ashikagan citadel itself, located in the coastal province (#93) directly to his south! This fortification is almost twice as strong as the one in Pythium, and overcoming it will prove to be a formidable endeavor.

The number of dissenters declines by one in Eribon, Feral Woods, and Pythium, and by two in the Iron Range, Bel, and Ultima Typhia. The temple in Eribon has swayed the folk there to abandon the worship of false gods, while the level of faith in next-door Bel climbs to 20% of the populace.

The Seithkona Gerd joins the coven at Jotunheim, which achieves mastery of the fourth rank in 'Conjuration' magics. Research continues in this school.

My realm has:
 __9 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 286 Treasury. 522 Income. (+4) 233 Upkeep. (+15) 132 Resources in the capital. (+2) 103 RPs
Gem income is:
 +0 Fire (15) +0 Air (--) +3 Water (08) +0 Earth (01) +4 Astral (17) (includes 1 Clam) +1 Death (04) +2 Nature (29)
In Jotunheim I recruit a Seithkona and 4 Jotun spearman. I recruit another human priest in Eribon, and I increase the provincial defense of Ultima Typhia by 2 (to 10). These preparations drain the treasury of 279 coins.

The newly-ordained priest Geiserik from Eribon is sent to the Well of All Waters, with the intent that a temple be constructed there in the very near future, so that I may be able to recruit Garnet Priestesses with fire magic skill. I have Oedre remain where he is to warn of Ashikagan troop movements on my western border. Ualgo continues on the route back to Jotunheim. And I send Bdvar into Marignon-controlled Rhas to learn more about this newfound enemy to the far southeast.

As for the besiegers of Pythium, the time has come when all is in readiness, as much as it can be, to storm the citadel and kill this pretender. The attacking force will be:
 Jorgun (my avatar) with orders of
Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Resist Magic, Astral Weapon, attack closest;
plus 44 Jotuns, with orders of hold & attack closest Grymis (my prophet) with orders of
Divine Bless, cast spells Bove (a Jotun herse) with orders of
hold x5, attack closest Urd (a Seithkona) with orders of
Protection, Body Ethereal, Astral Shield, Resist Magic, Eagle Eyes, cast spells;
plus 5 longdead giants as bodyguards;
plus 5 longdeads with orders of hold & attack closest
Tahmar, not expected to be of much use in this type of battle, is left outside to continue the siege, in the worst-case scenario that I fail and all my attackers flee into neighboring provinces. Urd and her guardians are placed in the far right rear corner. The 44 Jotuns are in the far left rear corner. Center rear is Jorgun, with Bove to his right and Grymis to his left. I would much rather fight the defenders outside the confines of the walls than within, should they be foolish enough to come out. At the very least, this arrangement of forces will hopefully alleviate some of the bottleneck that occurs when a large force tries to cram itself through the gates while there are still defenders blocking the passage.

Arryn

February 15th, 2004, 02:53 AM

<center>Turn #16, Summer Spring of Year 2
Convergence.</center>

The mid-summer heat discourages any travellers from bringing word from afar of events in distant lands.

My force at Pythium continues the siege of the citadel into a ninth month.

Urd and Ualgo arrive in the seige camp and distribute the magical items they carry to Bove and Jorgun. My avatar's return to Pythium once again quashes snake-worship there (neutral dominion). Jorgun assumes command of all the Jotun troops from Bove (Jorgun has much better morale). Bdvar reports some 50 heavy and light footmen, plus crossbowmen, in Pzucz.

The number of dissenters declines by one in Eribon and Ultima Typhia, and by two in the Iron Range, Bel, Feral Woods, and Pythium. The complete absence of taxation has the desired effect upon the residents of the Well of All Waters and all dissent there ceases (-33). As a reward for their misplaced fear, I raise taxes back to their normal level. The level of faith climbs once again to 50% in my capital, but the departure of my avatar makes the people of Ultima Typhia lose their faith. The faith also takes root in Imictan (#128), just west of the Well of All Waters.

The coven at Jotunheim achieves mastery of the third rank in 'Conjuration' magics. Research continues in this school.

My realm has:
 __9 Provinces (+Pythium under seige) 276 Treasury. 518 Income. (+16) 218 Upkeep. (+4) 130 Resources in the capital. (+3) _86 RPs
Gem income is:
 +3 Water (05) +0 Earth (01) +4 Astral (13) (includes 1 Clam) +1 Death (03) +2 Nature (27)
My God, in neutral dominion, has:
 176 Hit points (16 regen) _12 Protection _30 Morale _22 MR __4 Encumbrance _22 Strength _21 Attack _10 Precision _13 Defense 125 Leadership (40 magic units) Horror Helm, Amulet of Antimagic, Pendant of Luck Causes Fear +5, Poison resist 100%
In Jotunheim I recruit a Seithkona and 4 Jotun spearman. I recruit a human priest in the new temple in Eribon, and I increase the provincial defense of Ultima Typhia by 2 (to 8). These preparations drain the treasury of 275 coins.

Tahmar continues to Pythium with his half-score Jotuns, while Ualgo begins a journey back to Jotunheim via the Alps. Grymis is recalled back to the siege camp at Pythium. I send Oedre from Ultima Typhia into the Ashikagan province of Hoburgdorf, while Bdvar is to go to the mountain wastes of the Dragon Jaws (#39) to see if he can uncover any obvious magical sites there (it's another VP spot). My avatar will remain in Pythium to inspire faith. (I have reluctantly decided that it may take too long to hunt down where all of Pythium's dominion may be hiding, so I prepare to storm the citadel, and it will go better if I have as much positive dominion there as I can get.)

Arryn

February 15th, 2004, 06:03 PM

<center>Turn #18, Early Fall of Year 2
Road kill.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

A market gathering occurs in the Feral Woods, increasing tax revenues this month by 100.

The priest Geiserik safely arrives at the Well of All Waters, as does Ualgo at Jotunheim. Bdvar reports that Rhas has a well-organized provincial defense, and that the fortified capital city of Marignon itself is in the province (#19) just to the southeast. Oedre identifies Hoburgdorf's lone non-PD troop as a crossbowman.

Ensconced within the stone walls of the citadel my army finds Kanuka the Pythium pretender (a Frost Father with 6W7S), a Serpent Priest and a Serpent Acolyte, 1 Standard, 13 Gladiators, 2 Hastatus, 2 Velites, 2 Principes, and 16 Horned Serpents. All the troops are, indeed, starving (as I had hoped), and many are diseased and have one or more afflictions due to the wretched conditions within the long-beseiged citadel. I have numerical superiority, and my troops are stronger and in far better health. The prospects for success appear excellent, so long as Fate favors me, and the Pythium pretender does not use his considerable Astral power. The Pythium towers fire 8 ballista "bolts" each turn, and they will be the cause of most of the deaths among my Jotun troops. The battle proceeds:
 Round 1 - my troops escape harm from the towers. Kanuka casts Twist Fate on himself, while Urd's Protection is cast on Jorgun, who casts Body Ethereal per plan. Other casters on both sides make the obligatory Blessings and such. Round 2 - my troops take some nonfatal hits from the towers. Kanuka has transformed into a Blue Dragon! (4W5S, 125HPs, 18Prot, 18MR, 25Str, 16Att, 12Def) while my casters continue their plan and my troops hold. Round 3 - the first death of Jotun due to ballista fire. Kanuka flies to the far left rear to attack my Jotuns, which are well-matched against his Cold Breath as they are 100% Cold Resistant. As such, the dragon eats one of my giants. My prophet casts Fanaticism to counter the morale shock of losing 2 of their number this round. Six of the Jotuns attack the dragon, inflicting significant damage (-20HPs). Round 4 - four more Jotuns fall before the onslaught of the ballistas, and another is eaten by Kanuka. Grymis casts Fanaticism again to shore up morale. The vengeful Jotuns hack away at the dragon and inflict many serious hits (-74HPs, Kanuka has just 31HPs left). Round 5 - another brave Jotun is impaled by ballista, but the injured dragon's strike is insufficient to outright kill his next victim. Grymis casts Fanaticism, the Jotuns finish killing the Pythium dragon-pretender, and the rest of the giants head towards the citadel to engage the leading defenders who have just exited the outer gates. Round 6 - two more Jotuns fall transfixed by bolts. The Serpent priest attempts to Banish some of my longdeads, but fails. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and my lead Jotun spearmen kill the lead enemy gladiator. My avatar has moved up behind the mass of Jotuns. Round 7 - the tower ballistas miss my troops but kill one of the gladiatiors. Both Serpent priests attempt Banishment without success. A gladiator strikes at a Jotun Huskarl, but is killed by repel. Grymis casts Fanaticism. Two more gladiators and a horned serpent are killed by my Jotuns. Round 8 - the tower ballistas again miss my troops, as does the repeated Banishments by the two Serpent priests. Grymis casts Fanaticism. 3 more horned serpents are killed (as best I can tell in the melee). Round 9 - the ballistas kill another Jotun, though the Banishments have once again missed my longdeads. Grymis casts Fanaticism. It is hard for me to keep track of what's been killed, other than observe that Jorgun eats two gladiators this round. Remaining Pythium forces are: 2 priests, 9 horned serpents, 1 standard, 2 velites, 2 hastatus, 2 principe, and 5 gladiators. Round 10 - the tower ballistas miss my troops, as does a Banishment. The situation has grown so dire for the defenders that the other priest casts Sermon of Courage. Grymis casts Fanaticism. Remaining Pythium forces are: 2 priests, 7 horned serpents, 2 velites, 1 hastatus, 2 principe, and 4 gladiators. 33 of the original 44 Jotuns survive. Round 11 - the ballistas kill 2 more Jotuns. Two Banishments miss their targets. Pythium's troops rout. Grymis casts Fanaticism. Remaining Pythium forces are: 2 priests, 6 horned serpents, 1 hastatus, 1 principe, and 3 gladiators. Thus far, the entire battle has been fought outside the walls. As my forces chase the routing defenders inside, my troop loss rate will dramatically increase. Round 12 - another Jotun becomes a ballista casualty and two Banishments miss their targets. Pythium's troops continue their rout. Grymis casts Fanaticism. My troops give chase. Round 13 - the ballistas kill 2 more Jotuns, and in more confined quarters, Banishment kills 1 longdead giant and a longdead human. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and the chase continues. Round 14 - yet another Jotun falls impaled by ballista fire, while Banishment kills another longdead giant and my remining longdead human. As I had feared, the bottleneck at the gates is proving deadly, though it could have been much worse if the enemy forces had not already routed. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and a third of my troops are now inside the main courtyard, having killed the serpent acolyte near the inner gate. Round 15 - no ballista casualties, nor any from Banishment. Urd animates a skeleton, though she is so far from the routing Pythium troops it is a pointless action. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and the Jotuns kill 2 of the Last 3 gladiators, and engage the Last Pythium Serpent priest. Round 16 - the ballistas fell another brave giant. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and the Jotuns kill the Last commanding priest, leaving the already-routed enemy leaderless. Round 17 - 2 more casualties from concentrated ballista fire. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and the vengeful Jotuns kill 3 of the fleeing horned serpents and the Last principe. Round 18 - another 2 casualties from concentrated ballista fire. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and the Jotuns continue to chase down foes. Round 19 - another casualty from concentrated ballista fire. Grymis casts Fanaticism, and the Jotuns kill a lagging horned serpent. Round 20 - a final Jotun ballista death before the Last of the enemy has fled, ending the battle. In summary, of the 24 Jotuns I lost in the battle, all but two are killed by "artillery fire". Ouch.
Jorgun adds 3 more kills and 7 more trophies to his tally, while Bove claims 2 more kills and 10 more trophies (gaining a second star), though at the cost of acquiring a never-healing wound (20% HP loss, -6HPs). The end of the Serpent Cult and it's false god brings great jubilation, along with great sorrow for the two dozen brave giants who fell to cowardly missiles. The victory roughly doubles my water and nature gem income, and removes a very annoying thorn in my side. The added gold income will be enough to allow me to replace my losses in just a few turns, and to do so in a larger castle that is closer to my expanding land borders.

The number of dissenters declines by one in Eribon, Gwyrth, Iron Range, Pythium, and Ultima Typhia. The level of faith rises to 10% in Eribon, and 20% in Pythium.

The Seithkona Modgunn (second of the same name) joins the coven at Jotunheim. Research continues in Conjuration.

My realm has:
 __5 Dominion max. __2 Temples _10 Provinces 703 Treasury. 626 Income. (+104) 198 Upkeep. (-35) 133 Resources in Jotunheim. (+1) 156 Resources in Pythium. 102 RPs
Gem income is:
 +0 Fire (15) +0 Air (--) +5 Water (13) +0 Earth (01) +4 Astral (21) (includes 1 Clam) +1 Death (05) +5 Nature (34)
In Pythium I recruit a Seithkona and 3 Jotun spearman. I recruit another human priest in Eribon, a half-score provincial defenders in Pythium, and I also increase the defenses of Eribon by 4 (to 5), and Bel and the Black Alps by 1 (to 2 each). These preparations cost 303 coins, leaving exactly 400 coins for buildings.

I have the Skratti Tunne forge another Clam of Pearls and I allot 10 water gems for the task.

The priest Geiserik begins building a temple at the Well of All Waters, while my prophet Grymis does likewise in Pythium. Ualgo and a half-score of fresh Jotun spearmen head out from Jotunheim to the Alps, to join the survivors of my army in Pythium. I send Urd, with a bodyguard of longdead giants, to the Well (with the intent that she build a lab there). The newly-ordained priest Albrecht is sent from Eribon to Ultima Typhia (where I will erect another temple so as to push my dominion into the Ashikagan realm). Bove and the score of battle-hardened veteran Jotuns, along with Tahmar, begin a patrol of Pythium to quell the remnants of dissent there. I (deliberately) decide to leave Oedre in place in Hoburgdorf to monitor any potential buildup of Ashikagan troops in their one province that borders my realm. I have the intrepid Bdvar move northeast to independent plains of Troban (#36) which is due north of the Marignon capital, with the intent that he work his way to the east of that city.

The biggest decision left to be made is what to do with my avatar? I can take him north and munch on some woodland provinces west and north of the Well. I could send him due west, into Ashikaga's rich farmlands, but that would provoke an enemy I do not feel ready, as yet, to confront, especially so soon after my war with Pythium. Using a SC to spread dominion is a waste, IMO, so that idea is dismissed. I decide to have him move to the Black Alps, on the way to Zenthra on the coast just west of my capital. This gains me the Last province in the "Jotun Peninsula", and will place him on the coast so that I can use my amphibious SC to scoop up some sea provinces from Atlantis, which at the moment appear to be weakly held (PD only, if any).

[ February 15, 2004, 20:08: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 15th, 2004, 10:12 PM

Is anyone besides Norfleet still reading this AAR? It's odd that no one else has had anything to say after Turn 14, which was 4 turns (and one major castle assault) ago ...

Norfleet

February 15th, 2004, 10:31 PM

Well, I'm still diligently reading, but I'd like to make a comment regarding the dragon breath:

It's not that your Jotuns are well-matched against the dragon's breath, it's that most dragons don't USE their breath attack at all! Dragon breath is actually a ranged attack that the dragon will only discharge if he is ordered to Fire <target>, and doing the range is fairly short: If given orders to fire, the dragon will no longer fly, and instead waddle towards the nearest target in an attempt to discharge his breath weapon, which, like all missile weapons in Dominions II, will likely have no accuracy and miss.

As such, the threat of dragon breath is pretty much non-existent: Your Jotuns would have fared no worse than Abyssians or even cold-vulnerable devils against the dragon.

Pillin

February 16th, 2004, 12:31 AM

Im still reading, you seem to be doing good sofar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

fahdiz

February 16th, 2004, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Is anyone besides Norfleet still reading this AAR? It's odd that no one else has had anything to say after Turn 14, which was 4 turns (and one major castle assault) ago ... I'm reading it...just taking it all in as with the other AARs. Keep going, every single AAR on here is good stuff for new players like me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

condors

February 16th, 2004, 12:57 AM

i am reading as well, the aars are probally my favortie threads

Arryn

February 16th, 2004, 03:49 AM

<center>Turn #19, Fall of Year 2
A gathering storm to the west?</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

The priest Geiserik completes the temple in the Well of All Waters, as does my prophet Grymis in Pythium. Jorgun and Ualgo cross paths in the Black Alps. Urd arrives at the Well, and the priest Albrecht arrives in Ultima Typhia. Bdvar reports that (independent) Troban has roughly 50 fanatics, archers, and heavy footmen. Oedre sends back ominous news from Hoburgdorf that Ashikaga has amassed a three-score strong force of yamabushi monks and samurai swordsmen & horsemen, led by the (T'ien Ch'i) national hero Li T'ieh-Kuai. Ashikaga may be preparing to seize my weakly-defended border province of Ultima Typhia to begin an undeclared war. Or they may be readying to invade the independent river province of Herghendorf to the north or coastal plains of Saetica to the south. I will plan for the worst.

The number of dissenters declines by one in Iron Range, Bel, and Ultima Typhia. It declines by two in Eribon, Gwyrth, and the Feral Woods. Patrolling in Pythium has the desired results and all unrest ceases in the province. The presence of my avatar in the Black Alps inspires more of the inhabitants, and the numbers of the faithful rises to 40%.

The newly-recruited Seithkona Hnoss begins a coven in Pythium. The coven at Jotunheim achieves mastery of the fifth rank in 'Conjuration' magics. Research continues in the school.

My realm has:
 __5 Dominion max. __4 Temples _15 Provinces converted _10 Provinces under control 414 Treasury. 662 Income. (+36) 212 Upkeep. (+14) 133 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) 162 Resources in Pythium. (+6) _92 RPs
Gem income is:
 +0 Fire (15) +0 Air (--) +5 Water (08) +0 Earth (01) +5 Astral (25) (includes 2 Clams) +1 Death (06) +5 Nature (39)
I increase the defenses of Eribon by 2 (to 7). These preparations cost 14 coins, leaving just over 400 coins for buildings.

I have the Norna Skade forge a Thistle Mace, and the Seithkona in Pythium forge an Ivy Crown. (Pythium is not at my +2 magic scales, so it is more efficient for Hnoss to be the one allocated the job.) I allot 15 nature gems for these tasks.

The priest Albrecht begins building a temple in Ultima Typhia, while Urd commences building a lab at the Well of All Waters. I send Bove, with 23 Jotuns, and Grymis to defend Ultima Typhia, and redirect Ualgo and his half-score of fresh Jotun spearmen to meet them there. Tahmar remains in Pythium, defending, while my avatar proceeds to the Iron Range. I decide to move Oedre deeper in Ashikagan lands, west to the forest of Robber Home (#105). This also lessens his chances of discovery, should Ashikaga decide to remain in place and patrol with the three-score troops now in Hoburgdorf. I send Bdvar southeast into the wastes of Polgrave (#26) to look at what is east of Marignon. In Eribon, I have the newly-ordained priest Erkeborn preach to the masses, and I instruct that Geiserik do likewise at the Well of All Waters.

Last, but most importantly, I instruct the Norna Rimdriva to conduct the ritual of Acashic Record for the Well of All Waters, as I suspect there may be a hidden magical site there. (The recruitable Garnet mages, with fire magics, hints that there may be a fire site I've yet to find.) I allot all 25 astral pearls in the treasury for this task.

CharonJr

February 16th, 2004, 11:27 AM

Still reading, too, but not much to comment about, but when I look at my own AAR this seems to be fairly normal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

CharonJr

Norfleet

February 16th, 2004, 01:13 PM

You really ought to do something about that pesky unrest problem you keep reporting in a number of provinces. Take taxes down a notch, perhaps, and permanently do away with it.

GGGreenhorn the Stutterer

February 16th, 2004, 10:14 PM

Arryn, great work, picked up a great lot of information, just as you imagined.

I was wondering though, as you like to stack your troops with the morally staunchest hero, if that really helps. As far as my (admittedly limited) experience shows, troops will not root, if their commander dies or runs away.

Does it indeed have any influence I didn't notice?

And yes, please continue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 17th, 2004, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
You really ought to do something about that pesky unrest problem you keep reporting in a number of provinces. Take taxes down a notch, perhaps, and permanently do away with it. In the provinces that have had low double-digit unrest (under 15), I'd've lost more in gold in the one turn it'd take to reduce unrest to zero via taxes than by letting it go down gradually on its own. You may note that I've dealt with exceptions like Pythium's via patrols, or the event-caused one (+33) by taxes as you suggest, and Eribon's will be dealt on turn 20. Single-digit unrest, as I've had in most places, are in relatively low income areas and not a concern to me. I've only been reporting them for the sake of accuracy, and to give new players an idea of how unrest goes down when left alone.

Arryn

February 17th, 2004, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by GGGreenhorn the Stutterer:
Arryn, great work, picked up a great lot of information, just as you imagined.(blush) Thanks! It's great that you feel that you're getting useful info from my efforts. I'd hate to think that I was merely doing all this work (it takes a lot longer, over an hour per, to type up a turn than to play one) merely to entertain people. hehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I was wondering though, as you like to stack your troops with the morally staunchest hero, if that really helps. As far as my (admittedly limited) experience shows, troops will not root, if their commander dies or runs away.

Does it indeed have any influence I didn't notice?My attitude is that it can't hurt. I don't know if there is a hidden game mechanic in Dom that forces a morale check on troops if their leader routs/dies, but that's what I'm used to in many other games. Force of habit. And yes, please continue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Your wish is my command ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

CharonJr

February 17th, 2004, 02:59 AM

Hmm, showing how unrest is going down (eventually) if left alone reminds me to add some info to my AAR where I am currently bloodhunting, otherwise this might give an wrong impression...

CharonJr

Arryn

February 17th, 2004, 03:46 AM

<center>Turn #20, Late Fall of Year 2
Pleasant surprises.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

My suspicions bear fruit, well beyond my expectations, when the Norna Rimdriva, casting Acashic Record on the Well of All Waters not only discovers a hidden fire site, the Bronze Pillar (1F gem), but also finds the Forest of a Thousand Streams (1W & 1N gems). In addition to the new gem income, especially of fire gems from the Pillar, the Forest allows the recruitment of Enchantresses (1N & 3 random picks for 180g) who are "trained in elemental magics". I very much look forward to being able to buy, rather than summon, the air and earth mages I presently lack.

The priest Albrecht completes the temple in Ultima Typhia, and Urd completes the lab in the Well of All Waters (just in time to be able to recruit the newly-discovered Enchantresses). Ualgo arrives in Ultima Typhia with his half-score of fresh Jotun spearmen, which replenishes half of my army's recent casualties. Bdvar reports that (independent) Polgrave has roughly two-score amazons and a pair of gryphon riders. Oedre reports from Robber Home that Ashikaga has a mixed force there of about two-score yamabushi monks, light footmen, and aoi standard warriors, plus a light provincial defense. It appears that Ashikaga has concentrated most of its expansion to the mountains to their northwest. I am much relieved when Ashikaga elects to absorb the independent province of Saetica, and they may have lost as much as half of that army in the attack, which is doubly welcome news.

The number of dissenters declines by one in Eribon, Iron Range, and Bel (which has no more unrest). It declines by two in the Feral Woods.

The presence of my avatar in the Iron Range, along with the recent spate of temple construction in my realm, brings new inspiration so that the strength of the faithful rises to 60% in both the Iron Range and Jotunheim. Faith increases to 30% in Pythium and (independent) Saeborea, and 20% in Eribon, the Well of All Waters, and Ultima Typhia.

My magic researchers expect to achieve the sixth rank in 'Conjuration' magics next month. Research continues in the school.

My realm has:
 __6 Dominion max. __5 Temples _17 Provinces converted _10 Provinces controlled 451 Treasury. 692 Income. (+30) 212 Upkeep. (unchanged) 134 Resources in Jotunheim. (+1) 172 Resources in Pythium. (+10) 105 RPs (of 125 available at labs)
Gem income is:
 +1 Fire (16) +0 Air (--) +6 Water (14) +0 Earth (01) +5 Astral (05) (includes 2 Clams) +1 Death (07) +6 Nature (30)
I recruit a Seithkona and 3 Jotun spearman in Pythium, a Seithkona in Jotunheim, and my first Enchantress in the Well of All Waters. These preparations cost 450 coins.

I lower the tax rate in Eribon to 70% in order to appease the remaining ten dissenters there.

I have the Skratti Tunne forge another Clam of Pearls and I allot 10 water gems for the task. I have the Norna Skade begin a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem per month. I feel that I can now both spare the nature gem and her RPs in order to bolster my forces with a pair of zero-supply (and zero-upkeep?) ogres per month, which are very useful as frontline fodder, and will save some wear and tear on my now-depleted Jotuns.

I send Oedre southwest from Robber Home to the independent coastal province of the Promised Land (#91), directly west of Ashikaga. I am curious as to why this forest/farmlands has yet to be annexed by them. I decide to send Bdvar northeast into Lake Crescent (#33, another VP spot), rather than continue his sweep southeast of Marignon. In Eribon, the priest Erkeborn continues to preach to the masses, as does Geiserik at the Well of All Waters. Bove, along with 33 Jotuns, will patrol Ultima Typhia this month to quell the remaining unrest there, while my prophet Grymis, along with Albrecht, will preach the faith. Ualgo is to return to the Alps, and then on to Jotunheim. Finally, my avatar will move into independent Zenthra on the coast just west of my capital, and where I already have strong dominion, and annex this Last bit of the Jotun Peninsula. Reports say that I may face roughly 50 light and heavy footmen, but it is my belief that the information is exaggerated.

Arryn

February 17th, 2004, 05:42 PM

<center>Turn #21, Early Winter of Year 2
Prelude to war.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Oedre reports from the Promised Land that the independents there muster two-score fanatics plus heavy and light footmen. This force devoid of cavalry or special creatures increases my puzzlement as to why Ashikaga has not conquered the province yet. Oedre also reports that Atlantis has moved onshore in the farmlands of Ministra (#81) just to the west. Bdvar's report from Lake Crescent shows a force of three-score heavy footemen, crossbowmen, and light footmen. On my western border with Ashikaga, their hero Li T'ieh-Kuai with less than a handful of troops has taken the coastal farmlands of Ancyrna, which borders my provinces (north to south) of Ultima Typhia, Pythium, Black Alps, Iron Range, and Zenthra. This act, plus the current vulnerability of their hero, spurs me to alter my short-term plans. I cannot allow Ashikaga this close to my largest fortress and the heart of my realm.

The Enchantress Pladina (1F2E1N) has joined my researchers at the Well of All Waters.

My realm has:
 __6 Dominion max. __5 Temples _19 Provinces converted 446 Treasury. 716 Income. (+24) 242 Upkeep. (+30) 139 Resources in Jotunheim. (+5) 174 Resources in Pythium. (+2) _11 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=6, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=0, Unr=24 Eribon: Dom=2, PD=7, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=6, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=4, PD=2, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=2, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=1, PD=1, Unr=1 Ultima Typhia: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +1 Fire (17) +0 Air (--) +6 Water (10) +0 Earth (01) +6 Astral (10) (includes 3 Clams) +1 Death (08) +6 Nature (34)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 6-Conjuration* 3-Alteration 0-Evocation 4-Construction 3-Enchantment 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 120 RPs (of 145 available at labs)
I recruit 5 Jotun spearman and a Scout in Pythium, 3 Jotun spearman in Jotunheim, and another Enchantress in the Well of All Waters. I increase PD in the Black Alps by 1 and raise 2 provincial defenders in Zenthra. These preparations completely drain the treasury of all 446 coins.

I lower the tax rate in Zenthra to 0% in order to quell the unrest (24) there.

I have the Skratti Tunne forge another Clam of Pearls and I allot 10 water gems for the task. The Norna Skade will summon a Firbolg using the ritual of Awaken Sleeper, at a cost of 10 nature gems.

I send Oedre southwest from the Promised Land into Ministra to scout the extent of the Atlantian invasion of land. Bdvar moves further northeast into Moon Lake (#38, another VP spot). The priest Albrecht, unable to contribute further towards raising the faith in Ultima Typhia, is sent east to Bel. In Eribon, the priest Erkeborn continues to preach to the masses, as does Geiserik at the Well of All Waters.

My prophet Grymis, in command of my main army of 33 Jotuns, along with Bove, is ordered to capture the Ashikagan coastal farm province of Saetica. This will cut off the retreat of the Ashikagans in Ancyrna should this battle take place before that in Ancyrna. Saetica has about a score of mobile troops, plus whatever small amount of PD may have been raised in the two months prior to my attack, and I do not anticipate any problems defeating them. My avatar will strike northeastwards at Ancyrna from Zenthra, while the Seithkona Sigrdriva and a bodyguard of 3 newly-recruited Jotun spearmen will strike westwards from Pythium. In preparation, I transfer a Lucky Coin and an Amulet of Antimagic to her via lab from Urd's possession (at the Well). If I am exceptionally fortunate, I may catch the Ashikagan hero napping and kill him before he can escape.

[ February 18, 2004, 00:22: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 18th, 2004, 03:18 AM

<center>Turn #22, Winter of Year 2
Easy victories.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Someone discovers a pair of earth gems in a ravine in Bel, while the tax collection has unexpected success in the Feral Woods bringing a bonus 100g into the treasury this month.

Jorgun and Sigrdriva upon arriving in Ancyrna encounter local defenders of six samurai led by a Hatamoto, and a visiting Mahotsukai Adept. The wyrm, after casting all his preparatory spells, makes short work of all the samurai and both leaders. The mage is particularly tasty. My avatar adds 2 more kills and 6 more trophies to his tally from this brief battle. Unfortunately, it appears that the Ashikagan hero has retreated back to their capital, which appears to contain a defending force of 30 ashigaru spearmen and yamabushi monks, as well as two-dozen or so samurai, led by the Ashikagan natarajan pretender.

Grymis and Bove, with my main army, encounter no resistance in their occupation of Saetica. Oedre, now in Atlantian-held Ministra, discovers the location of the Atlantian capital (#51). Bdvar reports from Moon Lake the presence of a mixed force of about two-score light footmen and crossbowmen.

The Enchantress Ulga (2A1W1N) has joined my researchers at the Well of All Waters. I now have casters with at least some skill in all four elements. Skade has summoned the Firbolg Rod at Jotunheim.

My realm has:
 __6 Dominion max. __5 Temples _19 Provinces converted 591 Treasury. 811 Income. (+95) 271 Upkeep. (+29) 141 Resources in Jotunheim. (+2) 184 Resources in Pythium. (+10) _13 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=6, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=2, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=7, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=6, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=13 Black Alps: Dom=4, PD=3, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=3, PD=0, Unr=15 Bel: Dom=2, PD=2, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=1, PD=1, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +1 Fire (18) +0 Air (--) +6 Water (06) +0 Earth (03) +7 Astral (16) (includes 4 Clams) +1 Death (09) +6 Nature (31)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 6-Conjuration* 3-Alteration 0-Evocation 4-Construction 3-Enchantment 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 137 RPs (of 148 available at labs)
I recruit another Enchantress in the Well of All Waters. I increase PD in Zenthra, Gwyrth, Saetica, and Ancyrna to 10. These preparations drain the treasury of 576 coins.

I increase taxes in Zenthra back to 100%, while lowering them in Ancyrna to 50% in order to quell unrest in the newly-conquered land.

The Norna Skade resumes a monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem per month.

The priest Erkeborn, having done as much for the faith as he can, moves on to Ancyrna. Geiserik, his mission also complete, moves to the Feral Woods. I send Oedre northwest from Ministra into the Atlantian-held Rim Mountains (#88) to continue to scout the extent of their invasion of land. Bdvar moves further northeast into the independent wastes of Zanthrast (#43). Tahmar is sent to Saetica with 5 newly-recruited Jotun spearmen from Pythium. Rod the Firbolg heads for Ancyrna with 3 Jotun spearmen and 2 Vine Ogres. Rod the Scout, just recruited in Pythium, sneaks off to the Well on his way to the northern forests. Jorgun and Sigrdriva move from Ancyrna to join the rest of the army in Saetica. Bove takes over command of the 33 Jotuns in Saetica from Grymis and begins a patrol of the province to quell unrest, while Grymis begins building a temple (directly adjacent to the Ashikagan capital).

Arryn

February 18th, 2004, 05:51 PM

No one has any comments whatsoever about anything that's happened, or any of my decisions, since the fall of Pythium? I'm not trolling for compliments, mind you, but some occasional feedback on things you disagree with or actions you think were either questionable or very good would help. As would ideas on things I might have done or might yet do that I haven't thought of.

Thanks for your continued reading of the thread!

Arralen

February 18th, 2004, 06:36 PM

It would really help if you could do a screenshot of the map and add province names ... I'm a little bit lost at times.

Norfleet

February 18th, 2004, 07:47 PM

I'd say something, but you aren't really doing anything wrong, plus I haven't had as much time to read the Boards because I'm busy wrestling with this stupid patch that won't run properly. Argh.

Arryn

February 18th, 2004, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Arralen:
It would really help if you could do a screenshot of the map and add province names ... I'm a little bit lost at times. Okay. I'm working on having an HTTP site set up so I can have someplace for the images to reside. Stay tuned ...

Arryn

February 18th, 2004, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
you aren't really doing anything wrongThere's a difference, though, between "wrong" and things that you (or someone else) might do differently. I'm interested in that sort of "alternate scenario" type of thinking. I'm not going to learn much if everyone agrees with me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

February 18th, 2004, 09:42 PM

Turn #23 in progress ...

close-up (http://www.bl23c.com/aar-23.jpg) (1280x1024)

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/aar-23b.jpg) (1280x1024)

[ February 18, 2004, 19:56: Message edited by: Arryn ]

CharonJr

February 18th, 2004, 10:35 PM

And I am clueless about any other race than my squiddish friends to offer any meaningful comments http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But concerning the importance of speed of expansion I ask myself if you think you could have done anything to expand a tad faster without the strategy being to risky.

CharonJr

Arryn

February 18th, 2004, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by CharonJr:
But concerning the importance of speed of expansion I ask myself if you think you could have done anything to expand a tad faster without the strategy being to risky.With the caveat of risk-avoidance? No. I could have used a smaller force to beseige Pythium, but that would have risked more casualties and an even longer time to breach the gates. I could have built more combat units and fewer casters, but that's a really bad idea in my view. The main issues, as you can now see from the posted maps, is that I ran into Pythium on my only land expansion route, and Ashikaga is also close by. My next direction to expand is northwards into the woodlands. But I won't be doing that until I bottle up Ashikaga. My economy and position is strong enough that I can lay seige to their capital and then build a second army to go munching on other provinces.

Another big problem, that is not evident from the maps, is that the rich river farmlands to the east of Jotun are held by sizeable indy forces (50+) composed of heavy cav, heavy foot, and crossbows. I've been unwilling to risk my SC wyrm solo taking them on, and without magical support (I haven't studied Evocation yet for my Seithkonas) my Jotuns would take a serious beating from the cav/xbow mix. So I'm chewing on Ashikaga first, then I'll deal with the forests to the north, then the farmlands to the east, then the Atlantians. Well, that's the current plan, FWIW.

EDIT: as can be seen from the maps, until I wiped out Pythium on turn #18, I pretty much had to do everything in my power to get rid of this cork in the neck of the bottle I began the game in (the peninsula). Excepting the castle's ballistae, Pythium's troops were considerably weaker than the indies I'll be facing in Saeborea and Helmshire. Ashikaga is tougher than the indies, but the indies aren't a looming threat. The sooner I face Ashikaga the weaker they'll be. I cannot rely on them to bleed themselves on Atlantis or Man. They've already expanded in my direction, which was ominous. Better to face them now than later.

EDIT2: Now that I've pushed some decent dominion level into those indy farmlands to the east, I can probably take them on with my wyrm solo, since the wyrm will have nearly double the HPs that it has in zero dom.

PS - IMO, speed of expansion, while certainly important, isn't an overriding priority in SP as it is in MP. IMO, it's not as important as making sure you are ready before you begin your land grab. Better to "waste" a turn or two and have overwhelming force than to rush and fail. There's also a hidden side benefit. I often let AI nations do some of my site searching for me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 18, 2004, 22:34: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Norfleet

February 18th, 2004, 11:41 PM

Odd screenshot. Why is it that your flags look nothing like the way they look in my game? Is this shield-display-mode some sort of mod?

Arryn

February 19th, 2004, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Odd screenshot. Why is it that your flags look nothing like the way they look in my game? Is this shield-display-mode some sort of mod? The flags are from Unwise's flag mod, which I highly recommend.

EDIT: I forget to list the mod in this thread's first post, when I listed all the other mods in use. Sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 18, 2004, 22:09: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Bossemanden

February 19th, 2004, 12:07 AM

yes strange flags (but not unappealing). How much militia do you have in the coastal areas guarding against the squids?
I wont make suggestions on the expansion game since I�m really bad at expanding fast.
My usual pace of expansion is one province every other turn with the main army. One turn for invasion and one turn for site-search.
Gives good gem income but its probably not competitive at all.

Arryn

February 19th, 2004, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by Bossemanden:
How much militia do you have in the coastal areas guarding against the squids?10 per, for now. More later, when I can afford it. Atlantis has not shown much of an inclination to be aggressive towards me. As you will see when I post the write-up to turn #23, Atlantis is at war with Man. And perhaps other AIs. Fighting me as well is beyond their ability.

BTW, for turns #21 and on I list the dominion, PD, and unrest of each province I control.

Bossemanden

February 19th, 2004, 01:55 AM

Silly me. Should have noticed, but I�m somewhat drunk ATM so observation skills are down.

Arryn

February 19th, 2004, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by Bossemanden:
Silly me. Should have noticed, but I�m somewhat drunk ATM so observation skills are down. BTW, in case you missed it, C.O.R.E. is up to 0.7.

Arryn

February 19th, 2004, 04:26 AM

<center>Turn #23, Late Winter of Year 2
A small prophetable battle.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Farmers in Ancyrna bring in a harvest of winter wheat, increasing revenues by 30g this month, and reducing all unrest in the province.

The Ashikagan prophet (a taisho daimyo), and a mixed force of 6 aoi standard warriors, 3 samurai swordsmen, 4 yamabushi monks, and 8 light footmen attacks my army in Saetica just after my avatar (and other reinforcements) arrives. My overwhelming force of giants makes short work of the attackers, with the (mounted) false prophet being the first to flee the battlefield. At the end, only the Ashikagan prophet and a lone samurai managed to escape. Jorgun and Bove each acquire 4 trophies (no kills) from this lopsided battle. If Ashikaga continues to suicide a score of its troops per month in attacks against me there won't be much left to face me when I decide to invest their capital. So I will continue with my plan to strip them of their (rich) holdings while simultaneously bleeding them white.

Due to being otherwise occupied by the above-mentioned battle, Bove's patrol of Saetica is able to catch only one troublemaker, while the battle itself inspires three more opportunists into increasing the unrest. Oedre discovers the location of Man's capital (#109) just north of the Rim Mountains, and that Atlantis has spread (at least) to the end of that mountain range to the northwest as well as the coastal plains to the southwest. Furthermore, it is very likely that Atlantis is at war with Man. I base this theory on the lack of any activity on the part of Atlantis towards me, and that Atlantis controls two provinces directly bordering the Man capital. Between Atlantis and Ashikaga, Man has been completely unable to expand to their east. Bdvar reports a score of tribal archers and warriors in Zanthrast, and that Marignon is confining its eastward expansion to provinces near the coast.

The Enchantress Sade (1F1A1W1N) has joined my researchers at the Well of All Waters.

My realm has:
 __6 Dominion max. __6 Temples _21 Provinces converted 562 Treasury. 822 Income. (+11) 283 Upkeep. (+12) 141 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) 185 Resources in Pythium. (+1) _13 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=6, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=7, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=0, PD=10, Unr=17 Black Alps: Dom=5, PD=3, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=2, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=1, PD=1, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +1 Fire (19) +0 Air (--) +6 Water (12) +0 Earth (03) +7 Astral (23) (includes 4 Clams) +1 Death (10) +6 Nature (35)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 6-Conjuration* 3-Alteration 0-Evocation 4-Construction 3-Enchantment 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 129 RPs (of 160 available at labs)
I recruit and 5 Jotun spearman in Pythium and another Enchantress in the Well of All Waters. I raise the PD of Eribon to 10, Bel to 3, and Feral Woods to 2. These preparations drain the treasury of 362 coins (leaving 200 for building).

I lower the tax rate of Saetica to 50% to quell unrest there.

I have the Skratti Tunne forge another Clam of Pearls and I allot 10 water gems for the task.

The Norna Skade continues her monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem per month. The Norna Rimdriva uses alchemy to convert 4 nature gems into astral pearls, then she prepares the ritual of Acashic Record for the Feral Woods, expending all of the treasury's 25 astral pearls.

Bdvar moves east into the independent river delta of The Dawn Land (#44). I decide to leave Oedre in place to observe Man and Atlantis, while sending Rod the Scout north into the Second Forest (#143). Tahmar is sent back to Pythium to fetch the next batch of Jotun recruits. Geiserik begins building a temple in the Feral Woods, Erkeborn and Rod the Firbolg move on to Saetica from Ancyrna, and Albrecht moves from Bel to Ancyrna. Bove, now with 41 Jotuns under command, moves to Ultima Typhia (as a sort of temporary, mobile PD), while Grymis the Prophet begins preaching at the temple he just finished in Saetica. Jorgun and Sigrdriva decide to pay a visit to the Ashikagan province of Hoburgdorf ...

CharonJr

February 19th, 2004, 11:12 AM

Arryn,

yup, I agree that speed of expansion is not THAT important in SP, but since I try to play my SP games in order to prepare for MP I am fairly focused on speed (most likely since I feel that I am lacking in this department http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Especially with R'lyeh (due to its fairly weak initial units) I imagine that it will be fairly hard to be competetive in MP without choosing a SC as a pretender.

I haven't played enough of the other races to be sure about this, but I think the magically strong races need time to get their power up and when they are jumped early in MP are going to be defeated, but they are getting stronger the longer the game Lasts.

The heavy hiting races on the other hand are very strong at first, but their power will not get up as fast. This should be an initial advantage in MP.

This might force the magic heavy races to make some very risky decisions which can break them early on or enable them to survive till midgame, where they can start to shine.

CharonJr

Arryn

February 20th, 2004, 04:19 AM

<center>Turn #24, Early Spring of Year 3
Starting the new year with a bang!</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon the Feral Woods reveals an astounding 3 magical sites: Earth Blood Seepage (2E gems), another Bronze Pillar (1F gem), and a Maze (2S gems). A steady supply of earth gems is most welcome, and an increase in astral income of 25% is very helpful. Now all I lack is a source for air gems, and more death gems. My very weak death gem income has been seriously slowing down some of the things I would like to be doing with my plethora of death mages (13 seithkona and 3 norna).

Upon arriving in Hoburgdorf, Jorgun and Sigrdriva are met by provincial defenders of a hatamoto and 8 samurai swordsmen. The wyrm chews up the swordsmen with no trouble at all. Shortly after this battle, another occurs when the Ashikagan prophet (a taisho daimyo), a jonin, a hatamoto, 8 genin, and 1 crossbowman attack Bove and my main army in Ultima Typhia as I thought they might do. (Until my army moved into it this turn, the province was weakly defended compared to other targets that Ashikaga might have attacked this month. I was leaving it as bait to lure them into another bloody loss that they cannot afford.) This time, none of the Ashikagans escape. All the leaders, their prophet included, are killed in battle, and the sole crossbowman is killed when attempting to flee through territory under my control (the battle at Hoburgdorf earlier this month having cut off their only avenue of retreat). A very satisfying conclusion to my strategic maneuvering, despite losing 3 of the Jotuns to the poisoned daggers of the genin. In the pair of battles, Jorgun acquires 6 kills and 7 trophies, and Bove acquires 5 trophies (no kills).

Bdvar reports two-score light infantry and fanatics in The Dawn Land. He also discovers that the eastern extent of Marignon's expansion ends in Runia (#23), and the lack of an Atlantian presence in Oceania (#7) implies that Atlantis is preoccupied with their war with Man. Rod the Scout reports that two-score lizard warriors infest, er, inhabit the Second Forest. Ashikaga has about 30 yamabushi monks, samurai horsemen, and ashigaru spearmen, commanded by their nataraja pretender. Robber Home to the west has roughly 50 ashigaru spearmen, yamabushi monks, and aoi standard warriors, commanded by the hero Li T'ieh-Kuai.

The Enchantress Petrona (3A1N) has joined my researchers at the Well of All Waters. Petrona's good skill in the path of air will enable her to forge air skill-boosting items -- once a source of air gems can be found.

My realm has:
 __6 Dominion max. __7 Temples _22 Provinces converted 550 Treasury. 891 Income. (+69) 299 Upkeep. (+16) 141 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) 189 Resources in Pythium. (+4) _14 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=6, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=1, PD=10, Unr=1 Black Alps: Dom=5, PD=3, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=3, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=-4, PD=0, Unr=14 Feral Woods: Dom=1, PD=2, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (21) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (08) +_2 Earth (05) +10 Astral (09) (includes 5 Clams) +_1 Death (11) +_6 Nature (36)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 6-Conjuration* 3-Alteration 0-Evocation 4-Construction* 3-Enchantment 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 144 RPs (of 170 available at labs)
I recruit and 5 Jotun spearman in Pythium and another Enchantress in the Well of All Waters. I raise 10 provincial defenders in Hoburgdorf, and increase the PD of Saetica by 10 (to 20) to dissuade Ashikaga from another counterattack there. I also raise the PD of Bel by 2 (to 5). These preparations drain the treasury of 549 coins.

With most of the unrest in Saetica quelled, I raise taxes there back to normal, while lowering the tax rate of Hoburgdorf to 60% to silence opposition to my conquest.

I have the Seithkona Hnoss forge a Horror Helm for Rod the Firbolg in Pythium, and I allot 5 death gems for the task. The Enchantress Pladina forges a Charcoal Shield, also for Rod, and 5 fire plus 5 earth gems are alloted to this task.

The Norna Skade continues her monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem per month.

Bdvar moves east into the independent coastal farmlands of Ephesibor (#40), while Oedre continues to keep an eye on Atlantis and Man. Rod the Scout moves east into the farmlands of Garillion (#145). Bove will take my main army (of 38 Jotuns) to Hoburgdorf to protect my avatar, while Tahmar will escort 5 newly-recruited Jotun spearmen from Pythium to meet them there. Albrecht and Geiserik also move to Hoburgdorf. Rod the Firbolg heads back to Pythium to pick up magic items and more troops. Erkeborn and Grymis the Prophet preach at the temple in Saetica. Jorgun and Sigrdriva, having nothing better they can do this month, patrol in Hoburgdorf as they await the arrival of more Jotuns.

[ February 20, 2004, 17:49: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 21st, 2004, 01:49 AM

<center>Turn #25, Spring of Year 3
My grip tightens.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Rod the Scout reports approximately 30 light footmen, crossbowmen, and heavy footmen in the farmlands of Garillion. Bdvar reports 30 fanatics, and light and heavy cavalries in the independent coastal farmlands of Ephesibor. He also finds the western extent of Atlantian control is in the Sea of Menace (#31). The Ashikagan force from Robber Home appears to have moved into their capital in anticipation of an impending attack by the army I have amassed next to them. A reasonable precaution on their part, but one that actually helps me. My plan is to first surround their capital, and thus deprive the defenders of further material and economic support. By vacating their adjacent provinces they are making it easier for me to accomplish my plan.

The Enchantress Kara (3F1N) has joined the coven at the Well of All Waters. My researchers achieve the coveted seventh circle of power in Conjuration!

My realm has:
 __6 Dominion max. __7 Temples _22 Provinces converted 553 Treasury. 917 Income. (+26) 321 Upkeep. (+22) 141 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) 199 Resources in Pythium. (+10) _14 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=6, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=5, PD=3, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=5, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=-3, PD=10, Unr=3 Feral Woods: Dom=1, PD=2, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (18) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (14) +_2 Earth (02) +10 Astral (19) (includes 5 Clams) +_1 Death (07) +_6 Nature (41)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 0-Evocation 4-Construction* 3-Enchantment 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 158 RPs (of 179 available at labs)
I recruit 6 Jotun spearman in Pythium, and I increase the provincial defense of Hoburgdorf by 10 (to 20). I also increase the PD of Bel by 2 (to 7), and in the Feral Woods by 1 (to 3). These preparations drain the treasury of 351 coins, leaving 202 for building.

With most of the unrest in Hoburgdorf quelled, I raise taxes there back to normal.

I have the Skratti Tunne forge another Clam of Pearls and I allot 10 water gems for the task. The Norna Skade continues her monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem per month.

Bdvar follows the coast east into the independent river delta of Solam (#48), while Oedre continues to keep an eye on Atlantis and Man. Rod the Scout follows the river northwards into the farmlands of Gol Phalas (#159). Rod the Firbolg, now equipped with a Horror Helm and a Charcoal Shield, heads out from Pythium to Hoburgdorf with 5 more Jotun spearmen. Tahmar, having dropped off his squad of Jotuns in Hoburgdorf, heads back to Pythium. My prophet Grymis will move to Hoburgdorf as well, to assist in preaching the faith there. Erkeborn continues to preach at the temple in Saetica. Albrecht begins preaching in Hoburgdorf, while Geiserik builds a temple in the province, and Bove begins a patrol to root out the remaining unrest. My avatar, content that matters are under control in Hoburgdorf, moves north upriver to independent Herghendorf (#127), to face an estimated score of fanatics, longbowmen, and knights.

[ February 20, 2004, 23:53: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Bossemanden

February 21st, 2004, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Arryn:
BTW, in case you missed it, C.O.R.E. is up to 0.7. Thanks for the heads up.
You will note the changed sig. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Arryn

February 21st, 2004, 08:16 AM

Turn #26 in progress ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-26.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Ashikaga, Atlantis, Man, and Ulm.

[ February 28, 2004, 21:32: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arralen

February 21st, 2004, 05:42 PM

Could you do a list of mages you already have, and their paths? May some of my following humble suggestions don't apply as you either have better or no suitable mages available ..

- conjure(6) a harbinger (Astral-4), which will come with Air-2
- start searching for Air sites
- forge a Staff of Storms as soon as possible. Jotunheim doesn't have that great missile troops, so you won't loose that much. Would be very helpful against missile-heavy nations or heat-radiating creatures, though.

- how much Vine Ogres do you get from that Norna per turn? Her upkeep is 14,7gp, and you tie up 8 or more research points with this summoning.
An indie druid with Ivy Crown and Thistle Mace would be much better suited for the task. Lacking it, a empowered Seithkona, an Amazone, a Coatl or a Lamia Queen might do (I'm not shure 'bout the upkeep of the later ones, though.)

- Nornas with Death-2 can get you (Enchantment-3) Revenants (Death-1) for only 9 gems. Upkeep for those is free AFAIK. They're ideal to pile a ton of feathers, lamps and skulls upon them to get them to 19rp each ...

- Black Servants, Banes and Bane Lords make great Commanders and Part-Time-Pocket-SuperCombattants without upkeep-costs (AFAIK, havn't tested). They start with encumbrance=0, so you can slap the heaviest armor on them and still they won't tire at all. Give them Wraith Swords and they'll regenerate hipoints in combat, too.
Sadly, they have poor prec so you'll have to keep the

- Scepters of Authority for your Jotun Priests. Set them to "cast spells", and they'll use their priest spells to buff your troops or banish undead, unless there's no target in range. Than they'll divert to Flame Bolt with range 40 .. sufficient in most cases. And it's only 5 gems - a real bargain. I'm not shure if "double fatigue during rainstorms" does apply for spells from items. Item usage is only 5fat/turn while the spell would be 20- and fire-2, even if it's doubled you would still need a fire-3 mage to get the same number of spells without having a Staff of Storms present.

- do not use your prophet for preaching. He's spreading dominion anywhere he goes (kinda auto-preaching http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), so he better stays with your army, especially as he's the only priest-4, isn't he?

hope this is somewhat helpful ..

[ February 21, 2004, 15:44: Message edited by: Arralen ]

Arryn

February 21st, 2004, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Arralen:
Could you do a list of mages you already have, and their paths?Besides the 13 seithkona (1S/1D/1N) I have the following:
 Tunne the Skratti (2W/1N/2B, best suited for Clam forging) Rimdriva the Norna (3S/2D/1N, my Acashic Recorder) Skade the Norna (2S/2D/2N, 3N with Thistle Mace, summoning 2 Vine Ogres/turn w/Ivy Crown) Lit the Norna (2S/3D/1N, my Death summonings mage) Ulga the Enchantress (2A/1W/1N) Pladina the Enchantress (1F/2E/1N, my earth forger) Petrona the Enchantress (3A/1N, my air forger/summoner) Kara the Enchantress (3F/1N, my fire forger/summoner) Sade the Enchantress (1F/1A/1W/1N)

- conjure(6) a harbinger (Astral-4), which will come with Air-2
- start searching for Air sites
I have 2 mages with A2+ already. While the Harbinger is one of my favorite summons, I've been using the astral gems for Acashic castings, which have been a more fruitful usage thus far. Air sites are almost always found in mountains and I have but two provinces (so far) with them. One has a very low chance of air sites, and the other one I will be checking via Acashic on turn 26 (results on turn 27).
- forge a Staff of Storms as soon as possible. Jotunheim doesn't have that great missile troops, so you won't loose that much. Would be very helpful against missile-heavy nations or heat-radiating creatures, though.Indeed. It's on my agenda ... after I manage to find some air gems.

- how much Vine Ogres do you get from that Norna per turn? Her upkeep is 14,7gp, and you tie up 8 or more research points with this summoning.12 points, actually. I'm unconcerned about her gold cost. I get 2 ogres per turn. I really need some tough troops that don't eat for some provinces I plan to take in a few months, and my other choice is sea trolls. I need the water gems for Clams more, hence the ogres. It's more efficient, research-wise, to forge wine bags and use normal Jotuns, but the method I've chosen is a more efficient use of nature gems and adds more troops to the numbers of Jotuns I'm already recruiting.
An indie druid with Ivy Crown and Thistle Mace would be much better suited for the task. Lacking it, a empowered Seithkona, an Amazone, a Coatl or a Lamia Queen might doI don't control provinces with druids or amazons yet. A cuoatl cannot carry the Crown, and both summons cost more nature gems than I desire to spend at this time. Nor will I spend 30 gems to empower a Seithkona to do what the Norna already can.

- Nornas with Death-2 can get you (Enchantment-3) Revenants (Death-1) for only 9 gems. Upkeep for those is free AFAIK. They're ideal to pile a ton of feathers, lamps and skulls upon them to get them to 19rp each ...My death gem income is 1. And my priority with what little I have is Horror Helms. I'm really not concerned about my upkeep costs at present, and if I need more RPs I can hire 2 Seithkona and 1 Garnet mage per turn for 19rps (at a cost of 280g). At this point in the game I much prefer to spend gold than to spend gems.

- Black Servants, Banes and Bane Lords make great Commanders and Part-Time-Pocket-SuperCombattants without upkeep-costs (AFAIK, havn't tested). They start with encumbrance=0, so you can slap the heaviest armor on them and still they won't tire at all.I, too, like Bane Lords as mini-SCs. And they have good enough armor to not need any unless you want a particular magical effect. But, as I've mentioned above, I cannot afford the gems yet. Check again in, I'd guess, 20-30 turns and you'll probably see a fair number of death summons in my army. But not in the near future.

- Scepters of Authority for your Jotun Priests. Set them to "cast spells", and they'll use their priest spells to buff your troops or banish undead, unless there's no target in range. Than they'll divert to Flame Bolt with range 40 .. sufficient in most cases. And it's only 5 gems - a real bargain.This is a great suggestion. Thanks!

- do not use your prophet for preaching. He's spreading dominion anywhere he goes (kinda auto-preaching http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), so he better stays with your army, especially as he's the only priest-4, isn't he?He is my only H4, until I can afford to summon Arch Angels (which I now have the skill to do, but most certainly cannot afford to burn the gems for). In the past couple of months, my army moved backwards as a lure, and I kept the prophet near the enemy to spread dominion. He had nothing better to do than preach, until the army came back. Whenever the army is stationary (such as patrolling) he preaches, or builds a temple if no other priest is available for that.
hope this is somewhat helpful .. Yes, thanks!

Arryn

February 22nd, 2004, 06:49 AM

<center>Turn #26, Late Spring of Year 3
A near-death experience.</center>

Travellers from afar bring word that another Storm General has been named as the false prophet of the Caelumite pretender Gina. Caelum must be at war with someone else besides my nation (you may recall that they declared war on me a score of years ago) for them to have lost their prophet. In the Rim Mountains, my scout Oedre observes an Atlantian army of some 70 atlantian spearmen, reef warriors, war shamblers, and wolf riders utterly crush a handful of troops from Man.

A market gathers in Ancyrna and the extra commerce boosts my tax revenues this month by 100g. In neighboring Zenthra, over 1300 peasants, almost 30% of the provincial population, leave to find better land.

In Herghendorf, an Ashikagan force of 1 chunin, 1 hatamoto, 8 yamabushi monks, 4 ashigaru spearmen, 1 samurai swordsman, and 1 crossbowman attack the independents (composed of 1 priest, 7 knights, 18 fanatics, and 15 longbowmen) before my avatar arrives in the same province. The indy knights take care of all the Ashikagans excepting the crossbowman, who falls to massed fire from the longbowmen.

In the subsequent battle between Jorgun and the Herghendorf defenders (who are twice as strong as I had estimated), the wyrm completes his defensive spell preparations just as the lead half-dozen knights' charge reaches him (the seventh knight is acting as a bodyguard for the priest). None of the lances harm Jorgun, and 3 of the knights are instantly paralyzed by the wyrm's Astral Shield. While Jorgun feasts on stiff horseflesh, the fanatics close in and they, too, soon become bite-sized snacks to complement the equine main course. Behind the fanatics, though, the longbowmen also close in to point-blank firing range and begin to rain down a hail of hurtful arrows on my avatar as it finishes the Last few fanatics. In three volleys the wyrm, already weak from being in hostile dominion (starting with just 97HPs here, about half normal), takes many hits and loses almost 80% of his health. But his aura of fear, boosted by a Horror Helm, comes to his aid just in time and the longbowmen break morale and flee. Had they not routed, one more good volley would very likely have won the day for them. Jorgun calmly finishes gorging on the third paralyzed knight (the others long since having fled) as the longbowmen make a hasty retreat, leaving me the victory and control of the province. My avatar ends the battle with no new wounds, 11 more kills (98 total), 15 more trophies (172 total), and a lesson in how to be a pincushion.

Rod the Scout reports approximately 50 fanatics, and light and heavy footmen in the farmlands of Gol Phalas. He also discovers that the river delta of Durheim (#174) to the north is controlled by R'leyh. Bdvar observes roughly three-score independent ichtyid warriors and ichtyids in the river delta of Solam. Jorgun discovers that Ulm controls the forest-covered mountains to the north of Herghendorf, and that Man's control extends to the plains of Ivenmoor (#135) just to the northwest of Herghendorf. The Ashikagan-controlled mountain province of Melma (#119) southwest of Herghendorf contains just seven tribal cavalries. Robber Home appears to contain just a score of ashigaru spearmen under the command of the hero Li T'ieh-Kuai, while the Ashikagan capital appears to contain roughly 50 assorted national troops.

My researchers achieve the fifth circle of power in Construction.

My realm has:
 __6 Dominion max. __8 Temples _23 Provinces converted 942 Treasury. 964 Income. (+47) 333 Upkeep. (+12) 141 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) 199 Resources in Pythium. (unchanged) 15 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=6, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=5, PD=3, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=7, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=-3, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=1, PD=3, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=19
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (20) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (10) +_2 Earth (04) +11 Astral (29) (includes 6 Clams) +_1 Death (08) +_6 Nature (46)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 0-Evocation 5-Construction* 3-Enchantment 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 120 RPs (of 179 available at labs)
I recruit 1 Priest and another 6 Jotun spearman in Pythium, 1 Priest in Hoburgdorf, and 1 Priest in Saetica. I increase the provincial defense of Herghendorf to 10. I also increase the PD of Bel by 3 (to 10), and in the Feral Woods and Black Alps by 7 (to 10). These preparations drain the treasury of 510 coins.

I lower taxes in Herghendorf to 40% to quell unrest in the newly-conquered province.

I have the Skratti Tunne forge another Clam of Pearls and I allot 10 water gems for the task. The Norna Skade continues her monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem per month. I have two of the Seithkona forge Endless Bags of Wine, for which I allot 10 nature gems, while a third Seithkona forges a Horror Helm at a cost of 5 death gems. I have both of the Enchantresses with fire paths each forge a Sceptre of Authority, which uses half (10) of my fire gems. The Norna Rimdriva prepares the ritual of Acashic Record for the Black Alps, expending 25 astral pearls. (I need air gem income and Black Alps is the only mountain province I control with a reasonable chance of having some.)

Bdvar heads inland, north, into the mountains of Cimri (#56), Rod the Scout moves east into the farmlands of the Glimmering Fields (#149), and Oedre continues to keep an eye on Atlantis and Man. Tahmar ferries a half-dozen fresh Jotun spearmen to Hoburgdorf. Ualgo departs Jotunheim for Ancyrna with eight vine ogres in tow. Erkeborn continues to preach at the temple in Saetica, while Albrecht does so in Hoburgdorf. Geiserik moves to Herghendorf, where he will build a temple in the following month. The Seithkona Sigrdriva returns to Pythium. Grymis, commanding roughly half of the Jotun army (21 Jotuns and a pair of vine ogres), heads into the woods of Robber Home. Rod the Firbolg hands his magical items to Bove, who also heads into Robber Home, while Rod takes command of the remaining 25 Jotuns and moves to Saetica. (Since Saetica should now appear to be weakly defended compared to other targets that Ashikaga might strike back at, this is the logical place for me to try another ambush.) Finally, my wyrm Jorgun will head into the Ashikagan mountains of Melma.

[ February 22, 2004, 05:47: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 22nd, 2004, 08:26 AM

Turn #27 in progress ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-27.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Ashikaga, Atlantis, Man, Ulm, and Vanheim.

[ February 28, 2004, 21:31: Message edited by: Arryn ]

GGGreenhorn the Stutterer

February 22nd, 2004, 04:28 PM

Going good there Arryn. (If I may say so)
And thanks for your answer.

A small something I found usefull as a sort of mobile cheap defense for the jotuns was a lvl 3 priest patrolling or preaching where I expected an attack. After upgrading the defense to 12-15 the militia becomes almost unbreakable.
The weak link for my giant homegrown militia proved to be the morale in most cases. And you can just move the priest up to a different province, once that part is secure.

On a side topic, can anybody please tell me, where I can find Unwise's mod for the flags/standards on the map? Can't seem to find them on the Boards or at Illwinter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif They look just great.
Thanks a lot.....

Arryn

February 22nd, 2004, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by GGGreenhorn the Stutterer:
On a side topic, can anybody please tell me, where I can find Unwise's mod for the flags/standards on the map? Can't seem to find them on the Boards or at Illwinter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif They look just great.I've arranged to have his mod put up on the server that's hosting my AAR's files:
Unwise's Flags mod (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/downloads/unwise02.zip)

[ February 28, 2004, 21:31: Message edited by: Arryn ]

GGGreenhorn the Stutterer

February 22nd, 2004, 08:36 PM

Great, thanks a lot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , works like a charm and looking good!

Arryn

February 23rd, 2004, 06:21 AM

<center>Turn #27, Early Summer of Year 3
Stranglehold.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon the Black Alps reveals 2 magical sites: an Academy of High Magics (1E and 1N gems) in which I can recruit wizards (3 random), and an Unholy Temple (1D gem). The ritual also reveals a normal laboratory and temple which are linked to the magical Academy and Temple sites, an added "bonus". I am most disappointed not to have found an air gem source. Doubling my meager death gem income will have to mollify me, somewhat, along with the knowledge that my astral income is sufficient to be able to continue scanning provinces every other month, expensive as this may be.

In Melma, my wyrm faces a senin master, a hatamoto, 9 samurai swordsmen, and 4 tribal cavalry. The battle is more of a feast than anything significant. After consuming eight samurai as appetizers, my avatar moves on to his favorite main course of horseflesh, chowing down on a trio of cavalry before the pair of leaders rout, taking the pair of surviving underlings with them. Jorgun adds 10 more kills and 11 more trophies to his fast-growing tally. This province contains a Hidden Gold Mine (50g) and Gem Deposits (40g). More gold is always useful.

Grymis and Bove, with just over a score of Jotuns, makes short work of the dozen Ashikagan samurai provincial defenders of Robber Home. Bove tallies 2 kills and 7 trophies in this battle, which completes the encirclement of the Ashikagan capital. The captured province contains an Arena (15g). This month has proven very profitable, at least in terms of gold. Alas, the Ashikagan hero Li T'ieh-Kuai has once again eluded me, moving to their capital. His fate is already determined, all he does is delay the inevitable.

As predicted, Ashikaga does attack my province of Saetica. And they do so with a stronger force than I had expected they might use. So much the better, as it will weaken them all the more. The enemy counts an impressive (and expensive) "punitive" force of 3 taisho daimyos, 8 samurai horsemen, 6 aoi standard warriors, 14 samurai bowmen, 15 ashigaru spearmen, and 7 yamabushi monks. Against this, my defenders consist of Rod the Firbolg, a Jotun Jarl (PD), a Jotun Herse (PD), 2 priests, 25 Jotun spearmen, and 20 Jotun militia (PD). The samurai bowmen fail to hurt any of the giants, but do manage to kill several of their monks. The Jotuns plow through the spearmen and aoi warriors like a juggernaut, barely slowing down as they advance. Unable to stem the relentless tide of giants, and with all three daimyos slain, the bowmen (mounted and foot) and a handful of spearmen escape back to the relative safety of their capital. My losses are nil, and the enemy has once again been bled of over two dozen troops that will be expensive, and take months, for them to replace.

Rod the Scout reports approximately 50 fanatics, archers, and heavy footmen in the independent farmlands of the Glimmering Fields. He also notes that R'leyh has penetrated through the First Forest (#165) and into the Old Man Mountains (#147). Bdvar spots about 8 trolls in the mountains of Cimri, and that Vanheim is in possession of the plains of Pnophia (#66) to the northwest. The plains of Namor (#69) appears to be the furthest western penetration of Atlantians onto land. Aole (#78) was recently conquered by Man, and it appears that Man is attempting to flank Atlantis from the west, as its efforts to push directly through in the Rim Mountains has been repeatedly repulsed by Atlantis. Jorgun discovers Vanheim's eastern extent in the mountain province of Gipha (#131), just northwest of Melma, and held by a half-dozen black hawks, likely remnants of a ritual summoning. Ashikaga controls the wastes of Kepess (#116), west of Melma and Robber Home, with an estimated force of 30 ashigaru spearmen. I am optimistic that this may be the Last province under their control outside of the capital itself.

My realm has:
 ___6 Dominion max. ___9 Temples __24 Provinces converted 1113 Treasury. 1088 Income. (+124) _350 Upkeep. (+17) _141 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) _196 Resources in Pythium. (-3) 17 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=6, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=-1, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=-3, PD=0, Unr=10 Hoburgdorf: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=2, PD=0, Unr=9 Herghendorf: Dom=-1, PD=10, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (12) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (06) +_3 Earth (07) +12 Astral (15) (includes 7 Clams) +_2 Death (05) +_7 Nature (42)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 0-Evocation 5-Construction* 3-Enchantment* 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 160 RPs (of 188 available at labs)
I recruit 1 Priest and another 6 Jotun spearman in Pythium, 1 Priest in Hoburgdorf, and 1 Priest in Saetica. I increase the provincial defense of Herghendorf by 10 (to 20). I also raise 20 provincial defenders each in Melma and Robber Home. These preparations drain the treasury of 905 coins.

Having eliminated the unrest in Herghendorf, I raise taxes there back to normal. I lower taxes to 80% in Melma and 90% in Robber Home to quell unrest in the newly-conquered lands.

The Norna Skade continues her monthly ritual of Awakening Vine Ogres, at a cost of 1 nature gem per month. I have two of the Seithkona forge Endless Bags of Wine, for which I allot 10 nature gems, while a third Seithkona forges a Horror Helm at a cost of 5 death gems. I have Sade forge a Sceptre of Authority, which uses 5 of my fire gems, while Pladina forges a Charcoal Shield, expending 5 fire and 5 earth gems.

Geiserik, now in Herghendorf, begins building a temple. The newly-ordained priest Adaloald ferries the six equally-new Jotun spearmen and all the newly-forged magical items from Pythium to Hoburgdorf. Ualgo also moves to Hoburgdorf with 8 vine ogres. Tahmar heads back to Pythium to pick up the next batch of reinforcements. Erkeborn moves to Robber Home, with intentions of building a temple after he gets there, while the newly-ordained priest Gunderik in Hoburgdorf moves to Melma for similar reasons. In Saetica, the newly-ordained priest Clodomir takes over preaching duties at that temple. Albrecht continues to preach in Hoburgdorf. Bove begins a patrol of Robber Home as Grymis passes the time preaching. Bdvar heads into Namor, and Rod the Scout doubles back southwards into the farmlands of Summerlands (#123). Oedre is most useful keeping an eye on Atlantis and Man from his perch in the Rim Mountains. Assuming that Ashikaga may once again attempt to senselessly beat itself bloody against me, I send Rod the Firbolg and his army back to Hoburgdorf, the current "weak spot" bordering the Ashikagan capital. My wyrm, ever hungry, will move westwards into Kepess, in anticipation of acquiring both a fine meal and what I hope is Ashikaga's Last province besides its capital.

Arryn

February 23rd, 2004, 03:28 PM

Turn #28 in progress ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/images/aar-28.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Ashikaga, Atlantis, Man, Ulm, and Vanheim.

[ February 23, 2004, 20:23: Message edited by: Arryn ]

PDF

February 23rd, 2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Turn #28 in progress ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/aar-28.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Ashikaga, Atlantis, Man, Ulm, and Vanheim. Nice.. Where did you get the Shield/Flag mod ? I want it !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

CharonJr

February 23rd, 2004, 05:23 PM

Well, to me it looks like there is/was quite a lot of fighting between the AIs since this seems to be the most likely explanation of this patchwork of provinces to your west (unless the single provinces are conntected in the uncharted portion of the map).

If this is the case you have an interesting decision to make, strengthen your position while letting the AIs slug it out and attack the AI who is getting the upper hand or step in as soon as you have finished with the samurais while ignoring the unclaimed indie provinces.

BTW, what would be your guess (unless you know it from the score-graphs anyway) about the relativ power of the AIs left in the game ?

CharonJr

fahdiz

February 23rd, 2004, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Arryn:
Turn #28 in progress ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/aar-28.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Ashikaga, Atlantis, Man, Ulm, and Vanheim. Pardon my lack of experience, Arryn, but what type of unit is "Rod" (the spear-holding, lion-like commander) in the screenshot you've given?

Arralen

February 23rd, 2004, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by fahdiz:
Pardon my lack of experience, Arryn, but what type of unit is "Rod" (the spear-holding, lion-like commander) in the screenshot you've given? " I send Rod the Firbolg and his army back to Hoburgdorf,.."

AWAKEN SLEEPER - conj5, nature3

[ February 23, 2004, 16:20: Message edited by: Arralen ]

fahdiz

February 23rd, 2004, 06:23 PM

Thank you.

That's what I get for not reading for quite a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ February 23, 2004, 16:40: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Arryn

February 23rd, 2004, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by PDF:
Nice.. Where did you get the Shield/Flag mod ? I want it !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif If you scroll backwards to just before the turn #27 post you'll find a link to Unwise's Flag mod.

NOTE: For anyone who plays with the Ashikaga mod, in v2.0 Potatoman included an icon I made (with an authentic japanese mon) that is compatible with the Unwise mod. The instructions on switching to it are in the descriptive text portion of the "samurai.dm" file.

Arryn

February 23rd, 2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by CharonJr:
Well, to me it looks like there is/was quite a lot of fighting between the AIs since this seems to be the most likely explanation of this patchwork of provinces to your west (unless the single provinces are conntected in the uncharted portion of the map).I am convinced that Man is at war with both Atlantis and Vanheim. I do not know whether Vanheim is at war with Atlantis, but it's possible. It's also possible that Vanheim and/or Man may be at war with Ulm. R'leyh is offscreen to the upper right on the map, and it's even possible that the squids could be at war with Ulm if Ulm extends far enough to the east. If this is the case you have an interesting decision to make, strengthen your position while letting the AIs slug it out and attack the AI who is getting the upper hand or step in as soon as you have finished with the samurais while ignoring the unclaimed indie provinces.I've been pondering this question for the past few turns ever since I discovered that Man and Atlantis were going after each other. Man is the weaker of the two, but they are no threat to me. Atlantis is a threat, and their dominion is infringing on me, but they've been busy with Man and have left me in peace. The problem with attacking Atlantis would be that I would have to build magic items and/or do summons specifically for this purpose, which would slow my expansion on land. Vanheim is still questionable. They are a tough nation, and I do not know where their capital is yet. So my choice, as I see it, is to either attack Man, or go for the indies just to my north and east. I may do both. I plan to begin after I've begun the seige of Ashikaga. Ashikaga will take quite a while as they have a 350-point citadel. I plan to pile large numbers of Jotuns there, with many priests equipped with Wine Bags. And send my wyrm to play with the indies while that's going on. BTW, what would be your guess (unless you know it from the score-graphs anyway) about the relativ power of the AIs left in the game ?Provinces: 1. Van 2. Pan 3. Utgard (me) 4. Atlantis, Mictlan (tied) 6. Ulm 7. Marignon 8. Arco 9. R'leyhDominion:
 1. Marignon 2. Utgard (me) 3. Atlantis, Pan (tied) 5. Van 6. Ulm 7. Machaka 8. Arco 9. AbysiaArmy size:
 1. Van 2. Atlantis 3. Pan 4. Arco 5. Ulm 6. Mictlan 7. R'leyh 8. Marignon 9. Utgard (me)
I am #1 on the other graphs, by a sizeable lead.

[ February 23, 2004, 19:53: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 25th, 2004, 10:26 AM

<center>Turn #28, Summer of Year 3
A bleak summer for Ashikaga.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

In Kepess, which proves to be the final Ashikagan-held province other than their capital, my wyrm has at Last cornered the elusive Ashikagan hero Li T'ieh-Kuai. With this immortal is a senin master, a hatamoto, 2 samurai horsemen, 1 tribal cavalry, 6 samurai swordsmen, 12 ashigaru spearmen, and a yamabushi monk. Throughout the one-sided battle, as Jorgun snacks on samurai, ashigaru, and fine horseflesh, Li T'ieh-Kuai tries to Paralyze my avatar no fewer than 8 times, without success. The Ashikagans, including all three leaders, finally rout after the wyrm eats the Last of the horsemen. It avails them naught as they are killed ignominiously as they flee through territory under my control. Thus ends the current incarnation of Li T'ieh-Kuai. I expect that I shall be seeing him again, in a few months, when my armies beseige Ashikaga itself. Jorgun adds 12 more kills and 13 more trophies to his record from this most recent battle. I am very pleased in my unbroken series of successes, and in learning that the Ashikagans had already discovered two magical sites within the province. One is a Painted Cave (1 astral pearl) and the other is Glen of Verdant Greenery (1 nature gem).

Contrary to my expectations, Ashikaga refrains from conducting any raids against me this month. It appears that months of repeated bloody losses have taken their toll and they no longer desire to continue expending their brave men in futile gestures. Rod the Scout reports approximately 70 heavy footmen, archers, and fanatics in the independent farmlands of Summerlands. Bdvar spots about a half-score reef warriors and spearmen in the Atlantian-controlled plains of Namor. Vanheim is in possession of the forest of Illidar (#87), and the wastes of Agenor (#114). I had thought that Man was only at war with Atlantis, but it appears that they have a much larger foe in Vanheim as well. If the Vans continue to expand, at the pace they have for the past few months, it may prove difficult to attack Man without going through Atlantis, or worse, Vanheim lands first.

My researchers achieve mastery of the sixth circle of Construction magics, and the fourth circle in Enchantments. The magical items that will be necessary to boost Skade's skill from the current 3N to the 5N required by the Gift of Health ritual can now be forged. It is expected that the fifth circle in Enchantments (which allows Gift of Health) will be reached in the coming month.

My realm has:
 ___7 Dominion max. __10 Temples __26 Provinces converted _712 Treasury. 1130 Income. (+42) _367 Upkeep. (+17) _141 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) _196 Resources in Pythium. (unchanged) 18 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=7, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=-1, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=-3, PD=20, Unr=2 Hoburgdorf: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=1, PD=0, Unr=12 Melma: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=1 Herghendorf: Dom=-1, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (04) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (12) +_3 Earth (05) +13 Astral (28) (includes 7 Clams) +_2 Death (02) +_8 Nature (39)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 0-Evocation* 6-Construction 4-Enchantment* 0-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 167 RPs (of 189 available at labs)
I recruit another 6 Jotun spearman in Pythium, and I raise 15 provincial defenders in Kepess. These preparations drain the treasury of 300 coins.

Having eliminated most of the unrest in Melma and Robber Home, I raise the taxes in these two provinces back to normal, while reducing taxes to zero in Kepess.

The Norna Skade forges a Moonvine Bracelet, at a cost of 20 nature gems and 5 astral pearls. The Skratti Tunne forges another Clam of Pearls, and I allot 10 water gems for the task.

Erkeborn begins building a temple in Robber Home, while Gunderik does likewise in Melma. Geiserik, in Herghendorf, preaches. Clodomir and Gunthamun preach in Saetica, while Donner, Adaloald, and Albrecht preach in Hoburgdorf. Ualgo heads back to Pythium to pick up the next batch of reinforcements. In Pythium, Tahmar and the priest Konrad head to Saetica with a half-dozen Jotuns in tow. Rod the Firbolg and his army, in Hoburgdorf, go back to Saetica to rendezvous with the reinforcements from Pythium. Bove patrols Robber Home for another month, while Grymis continues to preach there. Bdvar heads into Illidar, and Rod the Scout continues southeastwards into the forested farmlands of Pirenna (#112). Oedre remains ensconced atop the Rim Mountains and my wyrm Jorgun moves east to Robber Home.

[ February 26, 2004, 05:31: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 25th, 2004, 10:54 AM

Turn #29 in progress ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-29.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Atlantis, Man, Ulm, and Vanheim.

[ February 28, 2004, 21:30: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Sand

February 26th, 2004, 05:53 PM

Another reader and newbie here. (I've been playing the demo for a week or so; full Version arriving today.) This AAR has definitely been a helpful eye-opener in terms of what "real" strategies are. I have found that the complexity of the turn reports has been getting worse in the Last six or so, but I'm not sure how you could simplify it...

Arryn

February 26th, 2004, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Sand:
Another reader and newbie here. (I've been playing the demo for a week or so; full Version arriving today.) This AAR has definitely been a helpful eye-opener in terms of what "real" strategies are.Great! Another Dom convert, and another fan of my AAR. Cool. I'm pleased that you find the postings useful to you. That means I'm succeeding at what I intended. As for my playing style being a "real" strategy, it's real only insofar as I'm not a Dom expert and I've made (and continue to make) mistakes. I'll be mentioning my most recent one in my next turn post, coincidently. But one of the things that I think make AARs useful is seeing how players overcome the mistakes they make (assuming they do overcome them).

What would be truly educational is an AAR of a MP game, written after the fact by the multiple participants. MP games are quite a bit different, strategically-speaking, than SP games vs. the AI. The slow, methodical expansion I'm doing in this AAR would get me killed off, quickly, in MP. What units you build and, more importantly, what you research changes markedly when you play in MP. Not quite so much for Jotuns, but much more so for other nations.

Stay tuned, and thanks again for reading and posting.

Arryn

February 27th, 2004, 04:36 AM

<center>Turn #29, Late Summer of Year 3
Tranquility.</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands. And for the first time since the Ascension Wars began, there is no unrest anywhere within the provinces under my control.

Rod the Scout reports a score of light and heavy footmen, plus crossbowmen, in the independent farmlands of Pirenna. Bdvar spots seven woodsmen in the Vanheim-controlled forest of Illidar. Man captures (or recaptures) the wastes of Agenor from Vanheim, confirming my impression that Man is fighting a two-front war.

My researchers achieve mastery of the fifth circle of Enchantment magics. Forging and hording of nature gems continue in preparation for the casting of the first of my intended global magics, that which will bestow the Gift of Health to all my people, in a few months time.

My realm has:
 ___7 Dominion max. __12 Temples __28 Provinces converted _761 Treasury. 1166 Income. (+36) _379 Upkeep. (+12) _141 Resources in Jotunheim. (unchanged) _196 Resources in Pythium. (unchanged) 18 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=7, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=0, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=-2, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=1, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=0, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (06) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (08) +_3 Earth (08) +14 Astral (36) (includes 8 Clams) +_2 Death (04) +_8 Nature (28)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 0-Evocation* 6-Construction 5-Enchantment 0-Thaumaturgy* 0-Blood Magic 182 RPs (of 193 available at labs)
I recruit another 6 Jotun spearman in Pythium, and Priests in Melma, Robber Home, Herghendorf, Saetica, and Ultima Typhia. I increase the PD of Kepess by 5 (to 20). I recruit a "blue" Wizard in the Black Alps. I'm hoping to get another N2 caster (1 in 4 chance), and this is the cheapest way (besides empowering/equipping a Seithkona). I also recruit scouts in Gwyrth, Eribon, Pythium, and Hoburgdorf. These preparations drain the treasury of 740 coins.

With the unrest in Kepess eliminated I raise the taxes there back to normal.

The Norna Lit forges a Starshine Skullcap, at a cost of 10 astral pearls. I do this in preparation to be able to have a Ring of Sorcery forged next month, the Last item that will be needed for the Norna Skade to be able to invoke the ritual of the Gift of Health the month after. Sade forges a Lightless Lantern, for which I allot 5 of the 6 fire gems in the treasury, to help speed my magical research.

Gunderik preaches in Melma, Erkeborn preaches in Robber Home, Geiserik preaches in Herghendorf, Adaloald preaches in Hoburgdorf, and Gunthamun preaches in Saetica. Tahmar heads back to Pythium for the next batch of recruits, while Ualgo, with a half-dozen Jotuns in tow, heads out from Pythium to Hoburgdorf.

I converge on Ashikaga from three sides:
 from Saetica - Rod the Firbolg, with 23 Jotun spearmen + 8 Vine ogres + 4 Jotun huskarls (as bodyguards), positioned in the center of the battlefield 1/4 of the way from rear-to-front, to allow time for castings (Rod has a Charcoal Shield, Horror Helm, and a Bag of Wine); Konrad the Priest, with 3 Jotun Spearmen (as bodyguards), in the center far rear (he carries a Sceptre of Authority, Horror Helm, and a Bag of Wine); Clodomir the Priest, with 3 Jotun Spearmen (as bodyguards), in the center far rear (he carries a Bag of Wine). from Hoburgdorf - Albrecht the Priest, with 5 Jotun Spearmen (as bodyguards), in the center far rear (he carries a Sceptre of Authority and a Bag of Wine); Donner the Priest, with 5 Jotun Spearmen (as bodyguards), in the center far rear (he carries a Sceptre of Authority). from Robber Home - Bove the Herse, with no troops, positioned on the right edge of the battlefield 1/4 of the way from rear-to-front (Bove has a Charcoal Shield, Horror Helm, and Amulet of Antimagic); Grymis the (Gode) Prophet, with 18 Jotun spearmen + 3 Jotun axemen and 2 Vine ogres (as bodyguards), he is at the far rear center, his troops are positioned in the center of the battlefield 1/4 of the way from rear-to-front (Grymis has a Lucky Coin and Amulet of Antimagic).A sizeable force of 7 commanders and 45 giants/ogre frontline troops (does not count bodyguards in the rear), which should crush the expected opposition of two-score ashigaru spearmen, samurai bowmen, and samurai horsemen.

Jorgun, my wyrm avatar, moves from Robber Home into The Promised Land, where I expect some three-score fanatics, and heavy and light footmen.

My wyrm should have attacked Barra or The Promised Land on Last turn's orders rather than move into Robber Home. I had been intending to use him in the forthcoming assault on Ashikaga, but I'm positive he won't be needed there, given how many troops I have amassed in the three provinces surrounding Ashikaga. I only came to realize it on this turn when I plotted my unit's moves and planned the attack. This is what happens when you fail to think 1-2 turns ahead, and also fail to adequately study the strategic situation. This oversight/mistake will cost me some income (from not having captured the indy provinces sooner), and more importantly, it delays my wyrm's movement eastwards by 2 months.

In my haste to get this turn finally written up and posted, I forget to move any of my scouts. Sigh. Not a big mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. Always do a CTRL-N before you end a turn!

[ February 27, 2004, 09:52: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 27th, 2004, 04:51 AM

The start of Turn #30 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-30.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Atlantis, Man, Ulm, and Vanheim.

[ February 28, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Gateway103

February 27th, 2004, 08:32 AM

Looking in the overview, it looks like you want to preach the Ashikaga Pretender (what was it again?) out of existence. An immensively fun and bloodless (pun not intended) way of slaying a potential SC/Battlemage, an aspect of Dom2 that I enjoy the most (of course if the table were turned... not as enjoyable...)

Perhaps you should detail how you plan to go about that, as well as perhaps providing a general how-to-preach-out-pretender guideline for newbies reading your AAR. I think not everyone knows you can, or exactly how, to preach out pretenders.

Anyway, great job on the AAR, keep up the good work ^_^

-Gateway103

[ February 27, 2004, 06:40: Message edited by: Gateway103 ]

CharonJr

February 27th, 2004, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by Gateway103:
Looking in the overview, it looks like you want to preach the Ashikaga Pretender (what was it again?) out of existence. An immensively fun and bloodless (pun not intended) way of slaying a potential SC/Battlemage, an aspect of Dom2 that I enjoy the most (of course if the table were turned... not as enjoyable...)

Perhaps you should detail how you plan to go about that, as well as perhaps providing a general how-to-preach-out-pretender guideline for newbies reading your AAR. I think not everyone knows you can, or exactly how, to preach out pretenders.

Anyway, great job on the AAR, keep up the good work ^_^

-Gateway103 I have preached out a pretender in my current AAR, but came to the conclusion that unless you face a very large or very dangerous army inside the fortress that it is not worth the time you need to spend for gathering enough priests.

I think it took me close to 5 turns to preach the pretender out and then I still had to breach the walls anyway where I would have been able to take the fortress by force with fairly light loses in about 2 turns.

CharonJr

Arryn

February 27th, 2004, 09:32 AM

I have 4 priests, including my prophet, now in Ashikaga, plus I have at least a +2 dominion strength advantage over them. It'll be a close call whether I can breach the citadel's 350-point walls before I preach the god out of existence. But the point of my priests in this siege is mainly to weaken (if not outright kill the enemy nataraja pretender) so that my inevitable storming comes off with fewer casualties. I'd be tickled if I can carry the fort without another battle, but it's not what I have planned for.

BTW, I'd like to once again thank Arralen for his fine suggestion that I give Sceptres of Authority to my priests. In the battle outside Ashikaga, my 3 priests with the sceptres fired volley after volley nonstop throughout the entire battle and did score a fair number of kills on the enemy. Making the sceptres was well worth the investment! I'll be making more of them as my fire gem income permits.

[ February 27, 2004, 07:36: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 27th, 2004, 10:20 AM

<center>Turn #30, Early Fall of Year 3
A spider's weave.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

I sense a powerful ripple in the magical weave of the world. The sudden concentration of nature magics from where the realm of Machaka is reputed to be loudly bespeaks of their having undertaken the ritual of the Mother Oak. I am untroubled by this event, since it does not affect my realm, nor does the ritual require particularly sophisticated arcane knowledge such that I should be concerned by what the Machakans might direct against me, should they be foolish enough to become belligerent towards me.

A vengeful witch attempts to curse my troops in Herghendorf for having destroyed her home and taken but a single nature gem from her. However, there is no one near for her to harm, while my overzealous priest Geiserik, whom I am sure is actually guilty of this act, is safely within my temple. I will punish him by leaving him there to continue preaching. Waste not a tool that is useful, I say.

My troops entering Ashikaga are met by 1 taisho daimyo, 2 hatamotos, 8 samurai horsemen, 51 samurai swordsmen, 14 samurai bowman, 12 ashigaru spearmen, and 3 yamabushi monks. Clodomir the Priest falls, impaled by an unlucky shaft from the first volley of the samurai. All of the samurai swordsmen and yamabushi, and two-thirds of the ashigaru are killed by the Jotuns and Vine ogres. Bove, having skirted the battle along the right flank, kills a hatamoto, and then the daimyo in lopsided single combats. Bove kills the Last hatamoto as the leading edge of my Jotuns plows into the bowmen. Now leaderless, the Ashikagans rout, but my troops manage to slay another bowman and a horseman before the remainder can finish fleeing the field. A total of 7 samurai horsemen, 13 samurai bowman, and 4 ashigaru spearmen survive to escape into the citadel. My siege begins, having lost only 1 Priest, 3 Jotun spearmen, and 1 Vine ogre. The priest Konrad picks up the Bag of Wine that Clodomir had been carrying.

Were it not for the 4 Bags of Wine my commanders carry, I am certain that almost two dozen of my Jotuns would already be starving in the seige camp. As it is, supplies are more than ample for all my valiant and strong Jotuns. I have adequate supply to support reinforcements of up to two dozen more giants. The importance of proper logistics for seigecraft cannot be overstated. It's the defenders that should be starving during a seige, if the attacker is competent.

I rearrange the troops in the seige camp so that only Vine ogres act as commander guardians, and I place all of the Jotuns under the command of my two non-preachers (Bove and Rod the Firbolg). This allows me to maximize the destruction of the walls, while at the same time I counter the enemy's faith ("preach down" his dominion).

The battle in The Promised Land between Jorgun and 3 indy commanders plus 46 assorted footmen & fanatics was assuredly one-sided, and thus not particularly interesting to recount. Suffice to say that my wyrm fed well this month. My avatar counts 12 more kills and 17 trophies from this battle (gaining a 4th star), and Bove received credit for 3 kills (all 3 samurai commanders) and 8 trophies at Ashikaga.

Elsewhere, Man recaptures the Rim Mountains from Atlantis. My scout Oedre must have been too busy escaping notice, since I received no report of the battle itself. Man has roughly three-score fanatics and spearmen in the province. Vanheim also retakes the province of Agenor from Man. They have some two-score light footmen, huskarls, and skin shifters in the province. It seems that as quickly as Man makes progress on one front they lose ground in the other. It amuses me immensely to watch these pretenders war upon each other, keeping them busy until such time as I deign to deal with them. It is also intriguing, as I ponder the situation, that these two provinces continue to change hands. It begs the question of what is so valuable within them that these nations are spending so much of their resources to control?

I am fortunate in that the wizard, Lekiro, whom I recuited at the Academy of High Magics in the Black Alps, possesses the skill in nature magics that I seek (1W & 2N).

My researchers achieve mastery of the first three levels of Evocation magics, and the first two levels of Thaumaturgy. I expect to achieve the next level in both schools by next month.

My realm has:
 ___7 Dominion max. __12 Temples __29 Provinces converted _900 Treasury. 1281 Income. (+115) _406 Upkeep. (+27) 20 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=7, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=1, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=17 Bel: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=-3, PD=0, Unr=17 (under seige) Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=-1, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=1, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=0, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (03) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (14) +_3 Earth (11) +14 Astral (40) (includes 8 Clams) +_2 Death (06) +_8 Nature (37)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 3-Evocation* 6-Construction 5-Enchantment 2-Thaumaturgy* 0-Blood Magic 182 RPs (of 212 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ February 27, 2004, 22:46: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 27th, 2004, 08:36 PM

<center>Turn #30, Early Fall of Year 3
A spider's weave.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I recruit another 6 Jotun spearmen in Pythium, 2 Jotun spearmen plus 3 Jotun huskarls in Jotunheim, and Commanders in the Iron Range and Ultima Typhia. I recruit a "red" Wizard in the Black Alps. (I'm hoping for another 2E caster.) I raise 20 provincial defenders in The Promised Land. I also recruit (7) more scouts in The Promised Land, Ancyrna, Hoburgdorf, Jotunheim, Gwyrth, Eribon, and Pythium. These preparations drain the treasury of 895 coins.

I lower the taxes in The Promised Land to zero to quell the unrest caused by the battle.

The Enchantress Pladina forges Earth Boots, at a cost of 10 earth gems. The Skratti Tunne forges another Clam of Pearls, and I allot 10 water gems for the task. The Norna Rimdriva forges a Ring of Sorcery, which will consume all 40 astral pearls in the treasury.

It was a mistake to forge the Lightless Lantern Last turn. I should have forged another Sceptre of Authority instead, but I simply forgot about them until I was reminded by watching the Ashikaga battle replay. Sigh.

Ualgo, with a 11 Jotuns in tow, moves from Hoburgdorf to the seige camp at Ashikaga. Tahmar with a half-dozen fresh Jotun recruits, heads out from Pythium to Hoburgdorf.

I'm not going to go into detail on where each of my new scouts is going, or where each of my priests is preaching, as the quantity of them that I have continues to grow, and it's probably boring for you to read and it's certainly very tedious for me to write up. It should be obvious where the scouts are going from the second turn map at the bottom of this post. The location and effects of the priests can be seen from the changing candles each turn. Priests will preach down enemy dom, and preach up mine, until they max out. Then I send them on to someplace else where they can be useful.

Jorgun, my wyrm, moves from The Promised Land to Barra where I expect some two-score heavy footmen and fanatics.

<center>Turn #30 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-30a.jpg) (1280x1024)<center>

[ February 28, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 27th, 2004, 09:02 PM

The start of Turn #31 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-31.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Atlantis, Man, Pangaea (lower right map corner), Ulm, and Vanheim.

[ February 28, 2004, 21:28: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 28th, 2004, 05:05 AM

<center>Turn #31, Fall of Year 3
Setting sun.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

The battle in Barra between Jorgun and 3 indy commanders plus 32 assorted heavy footmen and fanatics was quite lopsided, and not worthy of being recounted in detail. Once again, the wyrm fed well. My avatar counts 11 more kills and 13 trophies from this battle.

Oedre reports from the Rim Mountains than an independent force of 8 knights and 6 fanatics kills Man's lone monk defender, taking over control of the province. Man's pretender, a sentient rock monolith, is getting desperate. The 70-odd troops within their fortress are just slingers and fanatics, too weak to repel any attack that might breach their walls. Man's ill-fortune is fortuitous for me, and alters my plans. As there is now an independent province directly adjacent to Man's capital, and with Man so weak, the time is at hand to strike at them before Vanheim or Atlantis can do so first.

The final piece of good tidings this month is word from my prophet that my army has breached the walls of Ashikaga!

I am, again, fortunate in that the wizard, Pagobar, whom I recuited at the Academy of High Magics in the Black Alps, possesses the skill in that I seek, this time in earth magics (2E & 1B).

My researchers achieve mastery of the fourth level of Evocation magics and the third level of Thaumaturgy. The fifth level of Evocation is expected by next month. With the forging of Earth Boots for my earth mages, one of them will be able to craft a Dwarven Hammer once a sufficient supply of gems can be stockpiled. Other useful earth items that I intend to craft in the future include a Gate Cleaver and Stymphalian Wings.

My realm has:
 ___7 Dominion max. __12 Temples __31 Provinces converted _808 Treasury. 1348 Income. (+67) _452 Upkeep. (+46) 21 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=7, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=1, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=2, PD=10, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=-1, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=-3, PD=0, Unr=19 (under seige) Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=20 Robber Home: Dom=0, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=1, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_2 Fire (05) +_0 Air (--) +_6 Water (10) +_3 Earth (04) +15 Astral (14) (includes 9 Clams) +_2 Death (08) +_8 Nature (45)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 4-Evocation* 6-Construction 5-Enchantment 3-Thaumaturgy* 0-Blood Magic 181 RPs (of 229 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

Arryn

February 28th, 2004, 07:04 AM

<center>Turn #31, Fall of Year 3
Setting sun.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I recruit another 5 Jotun spearmen and a Scout in Pythium, and another Scout in Eribon. I raise 20 provincial defenders in Barra. Temples are to be built in Kepess and in The Promised Land. These preparations drain the treasury of 800 coins.

Having elminated the unrest in The Promised Land, I raise taxes there back to normal, while lowering the taxes in Barra to zero to quell the unrest caused by this most recent battle.

The Skratti Tunne forges another Clam of Pearls, at a cost of 10 water gems. The Norna Skade casts the global ritual Gift of Health, for which I allot 41 nature gems. Two of my Seithkona forge Spell Focuses, expending 10 of my astral pearls. And one of my Enchantresses forges a Sceptre of Authority, which consumes all 5 fire gems in the treasury.

Ualgo moves to The Promised Land on his way westwards to build a castle in one of my western border provinces with Man/Vanheim.

Tahmar with a dozen fresh Jotun recruits, heads out from Pythium to Hoburgdorf. (Due to a misclick after I did the screenshot Last turn, he failed to move. He's doing so now. Not a significant error, as it turns out, since the seige of Ashikaga is over.)

Grymis, Bove, Rod, 3 priests, 65 Jotun spearmen, 9 Vine ogres (as bodyguards), 4 Jotun huskarls (as bodyguards), and 3 Jotun axemen (as bodyguards) all storm the Ashikagan citadel. The sun is, permanently, setting on the Ashikagan Shogunate this month.

Jorgun, my wyrm, moves into the much-disputed Rim Mountains, where he'll feast nicely upon the double-handful of indy knights and fanatics waiting for him.

<center>Turn #31 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-31a.jpg) (1280x1024)
Please note the location of a R'leyh province at the far right center of the map. Thin blue lines are moving scouts, thick ones are troops and/or priests.<center>

[ February 28, 2004, 21:28: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 28th, 2004, 08:09 AM

The start of Turn #32 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-32.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Atlantis, Man, Pangaea, Ulm, and Vanheim. R'leyh is out of view to the northeast.

[ February 28, 2004, 21:27: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 29th, 2004, 01:00 AM

<center>Turn #32, Late Fall of Year 3
The curtain has fallen.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

The people of my domain receive the Gift of Health, via the Norna Skade, who successfully completes the moderately complex ritual.

The monolith of Man, its realm now reduced to just the capital, and fearful of enemies all around, invokes the ritual of Dark Skies over its domain. This may make storming their fortress appreciably more difficult for my Jotuns several months hence.

In heartfelt gratitude and celebrating my impending victory over Ashikaga, a festival is held in my honor in the Black Alps, increasing the strength of the faith in the province.

In the Rim Mountains, Jorgun faces 2 knight commanders, 6 knights, and 6 fanatics. The mounted troops charge, but inflict little harm on my wyrm. Within moments, all of the knights save one commander are bLasted unconscious by Jorgun's Astral Shield enchantment. The remaining knight commander routs and the fanatics turn about and flee as well, never having even gotten close to the wyrm. Jorgun proceeds to feast upon the fine equine and human flesh of the seven knights at his leisure. My avatar counts 3 more kills and 12 trophies from this battle.

The following two images show the dispositions of both sides at the start of the battle for the citadel of Ashikaga:

My army (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/AAR-ashikaga-jotuns.jpg) (1174x1004)

Ashikagans (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/AAR-ashikaga-enemy.jpg) (1174x1004)

My troops face the pretender Arriod the Nataraja, who has paths of 7A/5D/5N, possesses no magic items and has only 1 star of experience. Arriod's stats are: 138HPs, 4Prot, 30Mrl, 19MR, 25Str, 12Att, 12Def, 20Prec. The Ashikagan commanders are two Senin Masters, one Jonin, and one Taisho Daimyo. Their troops only muster 5 samurai horsemen, 4 samurai bowmen, 4 yamabushi monks, and 19 ashigaru spearmen. A pathetic force compared to my field army.

The enemy pretender casts Berserkers, and then kills a Jotun with a Lightning Bolt. The yamabushi and ashigaru of the enemy's right flank sally forth from the citadel, only to get slaughtered by the front rank of my Jotuns. Arriod followed behind the yamabushi and ashigaru to stand in the breach in the outer wall's gate. The nataraja cuts down three more of my Jotuns before he is impaled in return by the now-vengeful giants. The daimyo, just behind the inner gate, is then killed by a Flame Bolt from Donner. Moments later, the vanguard of my giants enter the courtyard, and the jonin is promptly skewered before he even has an opportunity to strike a blow. The remaining ashigaru make a half-hearted attempt to stand before the tide of giants, but break and run after the Jotun front rank kills a third of their number without taking casualties in return. Within a couple of more moments both senin are overrun and slain. Leaderless, the bowman flee -- only to be hunted down and killed later, having nowhere to hide. In the battle, I lose a total of just 8 of my Jotun spearmen, only 1/8th of my attacking giants. Bove gains 4 trophies from this brief experience. Ashikaga's magical sites boost my gem income by a most welcome 2 fire, 3 water, and 1 death.

The eradication of Ashikagan influence has immediately and dramatically increased the strength of my dominion, with 13 new provinces coming into my faith.

(I must admit to being unpleasantly surprised at the expansive presence of Pangaea to the southeast of my realm, when earlier scouting showed that Marignon-controlled lands lay in that direction. I suspect that Marignon and Pangaea have been at war, for Pangaea to have expanded all the way to my borders. The scouts that are now fanning out along this front, which should have been recruited many months ago, will ensure that I am henceforth properly informed. Since I dislike unpleasant surprises, I have promoted my previous, human, master of scouts into a new task that even he could not fail at, that of being wyrm-food. It was a short, but delicious career change.)

My researchers achieve mastery of the fifth level of Evocation magics. The fifth level of Thaumaturgy is expected by next month.

My realm has:
 ___7 Dominion max. __14 Temples __31 Provinces converted _916 Treasury. 1376 Income. (+28) _449 Upkeep. (-3) 22 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=7, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=2, PD=0, Unr=9 Ancyrna: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=0, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=0, PD=0, Unr=21 Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=-1, PD=20, Unr=1 Robber Home: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Feral Woods: Dom=5, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=1, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_4 Fire (04) +_0 Air (--) +_9 Water (09) +_3 Earth (07) +16 Astral (19) (includes 10 Clams) +_3 Death (11) +_8 Nature (12)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 5-Evocation* 6-Construction 5-Enchantment 3-Thaumaturgy* 0-Blood Magic 219 RPs (of 230 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 01, 2004, 23:05: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 29th, 2004, 06:44 AM

As some of you may have noticed, I've split up the turn Posts into a Part 1, for end-of-turn results and realm overview, and a Part 2, for plotted moves, forging, and recruitment. This allows me to get the juicy bits of turns (part #1) posted a bit faster while I think about what I want to do for the next turn, which sometimes I may ponder for hours or after a sleep break.

Some significant things have been happening in the game over the past 3 turns. Maybe it's just the weekend, but it's sort of surprising no one's had any comments whatsoever about the events, my reactions to them, or the direction my nation is going in ...

Is there anything you would have done differently (and why)? Is there something I'm overlooking (besides Blood magic)? Any comments at all are welcome. (Hey, it's getting lonely in the thread again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Ctennyson

February 29th, 2004, 06:59 AM

I tend to read, but keep my thoughts to myself, unless something is glaring. Call me a lurker.

Arryn

February 29th, 2004, 12:49 PM

<center>Turn #32, Late Fall of Year 3
The curtain has fallen.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

A temple is to be built in Ashikaga. I raise 20 provincial defenders in Ashikaga and the Rim Mountains, and increase the PD of Ancyrna, Zenthra, and Gwyrth by 7 each (to 17). These preparations drain the treasury of 914 coins. (Atlantis has amassed a particularly strong army numbering three-score assorted shamblers in the Wailwind Waters and I'm, ah, encouraging them to leave me alone by raising PDs in the weaker coastal provinces.)

Having elminated most of the unrest in Barra, I raise taxes there back to normal, while lowering the taxes in the Rim Mountains to zero to quell he unrest caused by this most recent battle.

The Norna Lit forges a Skull Staff, at a cost of 10 death gems. Astral pearls are being horded for an Acashic record, and nature gems for a Treelord's Staff.

Ualgo moves to Kepess (where I am considering having a castle built). Tahmar and his dozen fresh Jotun recruits moves to Ashikaga from Hoburgdorf. The commander Theag, with 4 vine ogres and 5 assorted Jotuns, moves from Jotunheim to Ancyrna. The commander Stark, with 5 Jotun spearmen, moves from Pythium to rendezvous in Ancyrna. The priests in Saetica, their work complete, move to Ancyrna and Zenthra (where I intend to build temples to push my dominion into the Atlantian realm). Likewise, the priests in Herghendorf move to Ashikaga. One of the priests in Robber Home moves to Barra, in preparation for temple-building there.

Bove and Rod the Firbolg will patrol the disorderly province of Ashikaga, while Grymis, along with 2 priests, preach in order to firmly establish my rule there. (Actually, patrolling is a secondary reason for keeping the troops in Ashikaga. More importantly, I am awaiting replacements plus letting the Gift of Health have a couple of months to cure some of the afflictions affecting 21 of my troops, one in three.)

My wyrm Jorgun will attack the capital of Man, having no fear of the mere three-score slingers and fanatics he sees milling about the province.

Turn #32 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-32a.jpg) (1280x1024)

[ March 01, 2004, 01:40: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

February 29th, 2004, 01:11 PM

The start of Turn #33 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-33.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Atlantis, Man, Marignon, Mictlan, Pangaea, R'leyh, Ulm, and Vanheim.

Arryn

March 1st, 2004, 03:12 AM

<center>Turn #33, Early Winter of Year 3
I spit at thee.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

The Gift of Health cures ten of my afflicted Jotuns this month.

Vanheim, with 1 herse, 8 skin shifters, 2 hirdmen, 6 huskarls, 4 barbarians, 1 heavy infantry, 9 light infantry, and 5 archers attacks Man's capital (before my wyrm arrives), who defend with 1 castellan (PD), 1 bard, 1 monk (PD), 31 fanatics, and 25 slingers (PD). Late in the battle, after considerable losses to both sides, with all the Van troops retreating save for a handful of archers and a lone herse, and with Man's only remaining soldiers being slingers, Man goes into a general rout, narrowly winning the field for Vanheim.

Vanheim's Pyrrhic victory leaves them with just a herse and five archers to face my mighty wyrm. The battle ends with the herse becoming a very light snack that hardly begins to satisfy the wyrm's vast appetite. Still, the experience is worth 1 kill and 5 trophies to my avatar. Unsurprisingly, even my huge wyrm is unequal to the task of tearing down the gates to the fortress of Man. But he is more than strong enough to fend off the counterattacks I expect will soon be coming from both Man and Vanheim, and to maintain the seige until my Jotuns arrive there in a few months.

Bdvar observes a battle in Koromoo between Mictlan and Vanheim. Mictlan attacks with 1 tribal king, 1 mounted commander, 3 eagle warriors, 5 jaguar warriors, 6 sun warriors, 40 warriors, 5 heavy infantry, and 1 slave. Van defends with 1 herse, 1 black hawk (leader), 5 black hawks, 1 vine ogre, 4 lamia, 3 hirdmen, 9 huskarls, and 1 light infantry. The affair is very bloody for both sides. With the Van forces reduced to just 1 herse, 2 black serpents, 2 hirdmen, and 7 rapidly fleeing huskarls, the army of Mictlan's morale breaks and they rout, despite still possessing over half their starting force. Van is very fortunate and holds on to the province with just 3, injured, units.

A scout, suspected to be from Vanheim, is killed by the Jotun militia (PD) of Kepess.

My researchers achieve mastery of the fifth level of Thaumaturgy, and the addition of more temples has strengthened the faith.

(Note that dom in Ashikaga went from 0 to 3 in one turn of concentrated preaching, and that dom has risen in many of my provinces since Last month. The mere presence of my pretender in Man has reduced Man's dom from -3 to -1 in their home province. I may very well be able to kill their pretender by my presence alone!)

My realm has:
 ___8 Dominion max. __15 Temples __37 Provinces converted _982 Treasury. 1505 Income. (+129) _449 Upkeep. (unchanged) 23 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=7, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=17, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=6, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=2, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=4, PD=17, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=3, PD=0, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=-2, PD=20, Unr=0 Robber Home: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=5, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=-1, PD=0, Unr=14 (under siege) Feral Woods: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=2, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_4 Fire (08) +_0 Air (--) +_9 Water (18) +_3 Earth (10) +16 Astral (35) (includes 10 Clams) +_3 Death (04) +_8 Nature (20)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 5-Evocation* 6-Construction 5-Enchantment 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 174 RPs (of 232 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 01, 2004, 23:04: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 1st, 2004, 04:09 AM

<center>Turn #33, Early Winter of Year 3
I spit at thee.</center>

<center>Part 2 of 2</center>

I recruit another a Priest and 2 Jotun spearmen in Ashikaga, and a Seithkona and 6 Jotun spearmen in Pythium. Temples are to be built in Barra, Ancyrna, and Zenthra. These preparations drain the treasury of 980 coins.

Having elminated the unrest in the Rim Mountains, I raise taxes there back to normal.

The Norna Rimdriva prepares to invoke the ritual of Acashic Record upon the province of Barra, for which I allot 25 of the astral pearls in the treasury. The Skratti Tunne forges another Clam of Pearls, at a cost of 10 water gems. Four of my Seithkona forge Endless Bags of Wines, expending all 20 of my nature gems. (I will need plenty of supplies so that my troops do not starve as they pass through the mountains south of Man.)

Tahmar heads back to Pythium. The commander Stark, with 10 assorted Jotuns and 4 vine ogres, moves from Ancyrna to Ashikaga, while commander Theag returns to Jotunheim.

Rod the Firbolg, leading my army's vanguard of 21 healthy Jotun spearmen and a bodyguard of 5 vine ogres, along with 4 priests carrying Sceptres of Authority and with one vine ogre apiece as bodyguards, head westwards from Ashikaga to The Promised Land, the first step on their 3-month march to the seige at Man. Bove remains in Ashikaga with the rest of my Jotun army, to bask another month in the Gift of Health within a province where the faith is moderately strong. Grymis remains as well, preaching, to further raise the strength of the faith.

My wyrm Jorgun will single-handedly maintain the seige of the capital of Man.

Turn #33 plotted movement (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-33a.jpg) (1280x1024)

[ March 01, 2004, 20:58: Message edited by: Arryn ]

Arryn

March 1st, 2004, 04:24 AM

The start of Turn #34 ...

overview (http://www.bl23c.com/arryn/images/aar-34.jpg) (1280x1024)

Please note the location of provinces controlled by Arcoscephale, Atlantis, Machaka, Man, Marignon, Mictlan, Pangaea, R'leyh, Ulm (capital is now visible), and Vanheim. You can now see the east-west wrap of the map at this zoom level by looking at Vanheim's Valgaard province (at the extreme left and right map sides). The north-south wrap is also, barely, visible.

(Nation names in boldface are newly-visible this month.)

Arryn

March 1st, 2004, 01:36 PM

<center>Turn #34, Winter of Year 3
A fat and happy wyrm.</center>

<center>Part 1 of 2</center>

This month, no travellers bring word from afar of events in distant lands.

The Gift of Health cures just four of my afflicted Jotuns this month. (Bove, plus seven Jotuns, remain wounded, as does my wyrm.)

Rimdriva's Acashic Record ritual upon Barra reveals 2 magical sites: a Totem Collection (1 nature gem and 1 astral pearl, and increases the luck of the province), and a Water Filled Cave (1 water and 1 earth gems). I am once again disappointed in failing to locate even a single site with air gems. At least I am certain that the fortress of Man conceals air magics, given the presence of Dark Skies in their dominion, what little remains of it.

A vengeful witch attempts to curse my troops in Pythium for having destroyed her home and taken five nature gems from her. However, she is unable to catch the vandals. I suspect that one, or both, of my Seithkona in Pythium must have run afoul of the witch, while taking a break from their researches in the city's lab, and decided to exact revenge. Hell hath no fury as a woman ...

My faithful followers in the Rim Mountains, of their own accord, raise a temple in my honor. I am truly touched by their devotion to me.

As expected, my wyrm beseiging Man is attacked by forces from both Man and Vanheim. Man sallies forth from the fortress first, with 1 castellan (PD), 1 commander, 1 monk (PD), 2 knights, 1 cu sidhe, 7 fanatics, 2 archers, and 25 slingers (PD). First to arrive, and get eaten, is one of the knights. The other knight promptly flees in abject horror. The slingers close to short range while the foolish, suicidally brave castellan rushes forward to meet the huge oncoming wyrm. He, too, gets gulped down in one bite. After eating seven of the slingers, with a half-dozen more unconscious from being bLasted by my wyrm's Astral Shield, the forces of Man go into a general rout. Jorgun finishes consuming the appetizer of slingers and prepares for the main course of Vans.

Vanheim, with their vanjarl prophet (with an Enchanted Sword, heroic strength, and 3 stars), 8 skin shifters, 7 hirdmen, 5 huskarls, 1 barbarian, 1 light infantry, and 8 archers attacks next. A much more substantive, albeit somewhat numerically smaller, force than what Man mustered. Regardless, the outcome of this battle, too, was never in doubt long before Vanheim began their march. Attacking my avatar is a mistake on their part, hubris born of the ease with which they have conquered other, smaller opponents. But they had not faced the might of Jotuns and the One True God ... until now. I shall teach them a lesson they shall not soon forget.

The Vans begin the battle with almost all of their units starving, and with almost all bearing one or more afflictions. Once my wyrm completes the preparatory spellcasting, he moves to engage this walking wounded "Pride of Vanheim". In a few moments, two skin shifters, all seven hirdmen, and three huskarls rout despite their prophet's two exhortations of Fanaticism. By this time, my wyrm has eaten four skin shifters, and two more skin shifters, two huskarls, the barbarian, and the light infantryman lay unconscious from striking my Astral Shield. The archers, quite stupidly, decide to charge and engage in melee. After eating two of them, and striking a third one senseless, their prophet's "unshakeable" morale breaks and he takes what's left of his troops with him. These back-to-back battles accrue 25 kills and 28 trophies to my avatar's tallies, as well as being a filling repast for my ever-ravenous wyrm.

Arcoscephale attacks the independent province of Fas Dir with 1 hoplite commander, 4 elephants, 6 light cavalry, 8 heart companions, 2 hoplites, 10 flagellants, 7 archers, and 28 slingers versus defenders mustering 2 knights (leaders), 8 knights, and 14 fanatics. The elephants quickly trample 4 of the knights, and the rest of the chivalric riders immediately turn tail and gallop away in fright. The knight leaders, with no sense whatsoever, gallantly charge the bulk of the Arco force, only to be surrounded and killed in short order. A very educational battle ... for my observant scout. I shall remember to be wary of these big 'elephant' beasts so that the knight's fate does not befall my Jotuns.

My researchers expect to achieve mastery of the sixth level of Evocation by the end of the month.

(The mere presence of my pretender in Man has eradicated Man's dom from their home province and replaced it with my own!)

My realm has:
 ___8 Dominion max. __19 Temples __38 Provinces converted 1032 Treasury. 1550 Income. (+45) _472 Upkeep. (+23) 23 Provinces controlled Jotunheim: Dom=7, PD=25, Unr=0 Zenthra: Dom=6, PD=17, Unr=0 Eribon: Dom=4, PD=10, Unr=0 Gwyrth: Dom=7, PD=17, Unr=0 Iron Range: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Saetica: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Black Alps: Dom=8, PD=10, Unr=0 Rim Mountains: Dom=1, PD=20, Unr=0 Ancyrna: Dom=4, PD=17, Unr=0 The Promised Land: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Bel: Dom=3, PD=10, Unr=0 Ashikaga: Dom=3, PD=0, Unr=0 Pythium: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Barra: Dom=-2, PD=20, Unr=1 Robber Home: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0 Hoburgdorf: Dom=5, PD=20, Unr=0 Man: Dom=1, PD=0, Unr=16 (under siege) Feral Woods: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Ultima Typhia: Dom=6, PD=10, Unr=0 Well of All Waters: Dom=7, PD=10, Unr=0 Kepess: Dom=3, PD=15, Unr=0 Melma: Dom=4, PD=20, Unr=0 Herghendorf: Dom=3, PD=20, Unr=0
Gem income is:
 +_4 Fire (12) +_0 Air (--) +10 Water (18) +_4 Earth (14) +18 Astral (27) (includes 11 Clams) +_3 Death (07) +_9 Nature (14)
Magical knowledge (stars denote schools being researched):
 7-Conjuration 3-Alteration 5-Evocation* 6-Construction 5-Enchantment* 5-Thaumaturgy 0-Blood Magic 218 RPs (of 239 available at labs)
<center>To be continued in Part 2 ...</center>

[ March 01, 2004, 23:03: Message edited by: Arryn ]