New & raw web based Dominion II game server [Archive]

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 12:24 AM

Hi,

I just made a web page capable of starting a few Dominioins II games from my server. Come and try, start a few games :-D

It's made from Perl, IO::Pty, Apache, Perl::CGI and mysql --- all running on a Hardened Gentoo Linux.

Please be gentle with my server --- it's quite small, and can only handle so much. I'll be asleep the next 8 hours or so, but afterwards I'll certainly help with any trouble you spot :-)

I know the game options are really lacking, and so is the fact that everybody can start a game. Be patient, and it will come! Oh, and help would be nice, too. If I distribute it, it will be GPL'ed (it uses mysql, which I believe is GPL).

Here's the link:Dominions II Game Server (http://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl)

Gandalf Parker

February 15th, 2004, 01:00 AM

Looks nice. Did you check out the server threads here? such as this one? (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=74;t=000220;p=1)

You went with starting a full service tcp/ip game. Nice setup. The community thanks you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was going to try and go the other way. Some sort of web-based upload of the .2h file is about the only hangup I think. Then it would be easy to provide a web-based download of .trn files. That would allow a "host at midnight" run thru all the game files. Alot more games could be done on one machine but its taking a long time to iron out.

[ February 14, 2004, 23:01: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Norfleet

February 15th, 2004, 01:08 AM

Did you want us to merely test the game-starting functionality, or attempt to break the server?

Argitoth

February 15th, 2004, 01:14 AM

How are you going to get past the temp-file crashes?

Gandalf Parker

February 15th, 2004, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by Argitoth:
How are you going to get past the temp-file crashes? I havent had that on a linux machine. Just on Windows. But if it did happen it wouldnt be hard on linux to check for it and reload

[ February 14, 2004, 23:31: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Johan K

February 15th, 2004, 01:37 AM

I tried to test it. But I got this error message when I tried with port 6677 and later with port 16563. (0 vp, 0 req vp, map aran)

-------------------
An error occurred while attempting to launch game:

You must specify a valid port

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
Looks nice. Did you check out the server threads here? such as this one? (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=74;t=000220;p=1)

You went with starting a full service tcp/ip game. Nice setup. The community thanks you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was going to try and go the other way. Some sort of web-based upload of the .2h file is about the only hangup I think. Then it would be easy to provide a web-based download of .trn files. That would allow a "host at midnight" run thru all the game files. Alot more games could be done on one machine but its taking a long time to iron out. Yeah, I did check out the server threads, and will do so again now that I have the basic setup. To get some more ideas. And you're all welcome --- thank me by playing with me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I chose the TCP/IP setup over the mail-based setup simply because I liked the feel of a TCP/IP server. A mail-based server would be able to handle a substantial load, though, so that would be great, too! I think my little server would be able to handle perhaps 5--10 TCP/IP game before becoming too slow.

Also, I think it is perhaps a bit more challinging to make a mailbased server. If I did, I would base it on a sendmail clone and a CGI webpage. Then I would have each game have it's own (maybe virtual) mailbox, or maybe filter on subject. When the server has run I would simply email the turns back. This would require a registration of email addresses, hence the CGI-page.

I won't be implemented this anytime soon though. But I'll certainly help if I can & if somebody want to do it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by Johan K:
I tried to test it. But I got this error message when I tried with port 6677 and later with port 16563. (0 vp, 0 req vp, map aran)

-------------------
An error occurred while attempting to launch game:

You must specify a valid port My fault. I only allow ports between 2300 through 2400. This is to make it easier to understand my firewall logs. This should have been written in the error response.

I'll update the page soon. I wanted the port to be a dropdown selection in any case.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 09:26 AM

OK, to reply to the rest of the replies in one fell swoop:

The server is not too hard to break.Only the dominions II part should break. I have a change in my head which should make it much harder to break, but that would have to wait.

I don't know what the tempfile problem is (Gandalf writes that it is a windowsthing), but restart of the server is certainly possible if it become an issue. It would actually be the same change as above, funny enough.

Enjoy!

PhilD

February 15th, 2004, 10:09 AM

OK, I'm feeling stupid this morning.

I started a game, and the site tells me it's fine, running on port 2350 and all...

But I cannot find an IP address to connect to. Did I miss something, or is there, somewhere, a Dominions 2 server that's accepting connections, only nobody knows where?

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by PhilD:
OK, I'm feeling stupid this morning.

I started a game, and the site tells me it's fine, running on port 2350 and all...

But I cannot find an IP address to connect to. Did I miss something, or is there, somewhere, a Dominions 2 server that's accepting connections, only nobody knows where? You may be feeling stupid, but not as much as I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The IP is now on the page (it's 80.161.86.108). Somehow I figured that people would know it's mosehansen.dk since that is where the webpage is served from. And that is wrong in so many ways...

Sorry for the inconvience... I have already joined your game, BTW. It's me playing Man. And I'm no good at this game, BTW, but I will learn :-D

PhilD

February 15th, 2004, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

Sorry for the inconvience... I have already joined your game, BTW. It's me playing Man. And I'm no good at this game, BTW, but I will learn :-D I joined as well, as Abysia. We can do a few turns if you like (I wasn't really looking for a new MP game, but since we're both in Europe and it's sunday anyway... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PhilD

February 15th, 2004, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by PhilD:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

Sorry for the inconvience... I have already joined your game, BTW. It's me playing Man. And I'm no good at this game, BTW, but I will learn :-D I joined as well, as Abysia. We can do a few turns if you like (I wasn't really looking for a new MP game, but since we're both in Europe and it's sunday anyway... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Wow, THAT was a fast game. I thought the victory conditions were "standard", and didn't check the VPs... (Is there a way on your server to use non-VP victory conditions?)

For those at home: Esben and I played a 7-turn or so game, which he won waaaay before we made contact because he had 3 VPs out of a total 6 on the map... thing is, he started with 2, and I with only 1... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Gandalf Parker

February 15th, 2004, 03:22 PM

I was thinking that creating an actual account for each game might be simplest. Creating a game123 would allow for a game123@ email address, and a game123 upload directory, and a www.gameserver/~game123 (http://www.gameserver/~game123) web directory for game info. So far there isnt alot og game info you can put there but I was thinking "if you build it then some will come"

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 03:40 PM

The idea with one account pr. game is wonderful for play-by-email games. But I wouldn't want to do that from a CGI-interface: Creating accounts must for obvious reasons involve at least a sudo root operation. I would never let a CGI-script anywhere near that kind of power. Perhaps a chroot'ed approach could be found allowing for the one-accout-for-each-game approach.

As for storing game info, I use a mysql database. In there, I can do pretty much anything I want, without comprimising security. I could, e.g. store a backup for .2h files if I wished...

Another thing: Maybe it's just Sunday, but interest in this server has been quite low: Exactly one game has been created. For the current load, TCP/IP is DEFINITELY the way to go. Much easier to build/adminster than mail, and any server could run less than 5 games without sweating.

In the same vein: Feel free to pass the address of the server on to anywhere you think appropriate. The server has a limit (of currently 3), so there's no risk of overloading the server.

Also, if somebody have a pet option they just MUST have, please, don't hesitate to tell me. I havn't played all that much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Finally, response will be slow from me for an hour or so. I have a different kind of experiment underway: The making of filled chokolades.

Thanks for your interest in my little project http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Arryn

February 15th, 2004, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
Another thing: Maybe it's just Sunday, but interest in this server has been quite lowIt is ...

1. early Sunday (in the US) with many religious types in church,

2. Post-Valentine's day,

3. a 3-day weekend in the US that some adults use for mini-vacations.

Give it some time. Your server hasn't even been running publically for 24 hours yet.

Gandalf Parker

February 15th, 2004, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
The idea with one account pr. game is wonderful for play-by-email games. But I wouldn't want to do that from a CGI-interface: Creating accounts must for obvious reasons involve at least a sudo root operation. I would never let a CGI-script anywhere near that kind of power. Perhaps a chroot'ed approach could be found allowing for the one-accout-for-each-game approach.True enough. Actually Ive done it in the past without sudo using a passed file as a work around. CGI creates a file with the account info. CRON reads it, checks it for possible abuse info, then creates the account with the info. But in general it is considered a thing to avoid.

Of course it wouldnt be much to a system to go ahead and make 100 or so such accounts then just roll the games thru them as needed.

As for storing game info, I use a mysql database. In there, I can do pretty much anything I want, without comprimising security. I could, e.g. store a backup for .2h files if I wished...Well pros and cons. SQL has its own drawbacks. Even in security. But then everyone should tends to know and handle the problems for their favorite softwares which is really the right way to go.

Another thing: Maybe it's just Sunday, but interest in this server has been quite low: Exactly one game has been created. For the current load, TCP/IP is DEFINITELY the way to go. Much easier to build/adminster than mail, and any server could run less than 5 games without sweating. When I saw the memory load it required I was scared away from that direction. But later I got up the nerve to start 2 games at the same time and saw that it handled librarys well. Most of what it loads does not get loaded for each server.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 05:14 PM

Regarding the low load & Valentine: Good point. I hadn't thought about either Valentine holidays or religious types http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Well, we'll just have to see what happens. However, before designing and implementing a server that could handle 100's of games, I would still like to see whether there is demand for 10's of games :-)

Cute idea with "order" file and a "fulfillment" cron job. That seems better secured than using sudo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Mysql has some nice & easy security feautures that I like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But as you say, each to their own. You can certainly do anything �ou can do with databases with files, and it' seasier to do mail<->file than mail<->db.

An objective description of the SQL language would be an epithet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif At least the interface between Perl and Mysql is better than say C/C++ and DB/2.

Thanks for your interest... the chocolates are going through a 2nd cooling now.. next comes the bottom, and then it's back to coding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

February 15th, 2004, 11:58 PM

I've uploaded a new Version of the hosting site. Most game options are now availble, though there's probably bugs. Report any you find here, please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'll be gone working and visiting most of tommorow (2004-02-16). And now I'm going to get some sleep.

'night!

Pillin

February 16th, 2004, 12:45 AM

Can't create a game, no error message or anything.

PhilD

February 16th, 2004, 02:16 AM

I just tried starting a new game, and it doesn't seem to work: the game isn't reported as created, and there doesn't seem to be a Dom2 server at the address and port requested.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 16th, 2004, 02:24 AM

Well, no. The problem is that "capitalvp" is on by default. I'm just now updating my scripts to accept most of the game options provided to the textbased server, but I'm not done yet.

But playing with VP seems to so much more fun?

Well, anyway, thanks for the game! While short it was long enough for me to finish implementing another feature: The web page now shows a listing over the players that have not yet moved this turn. Also, I'm preparing a (short) comment field for stuff like: "Start this game at 5 players, please!"

PhilD

February 16th, 2004, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
I've uploaded a new Version of the hosting site. Most game options are now availble, though there's probably bugs. Report any you find here, please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'll be gone working and visiting most of tommorow (2004-02-16). And now I'm going to get some sleep.

'night! I believe you must have forgotten some part on the site: I see the same interface as before, with no more options. That may be why we cannot start new games.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 16th, 2004, 09:47 AM

Something must have gone wrong when I uploaded. Fortunately, I had the beta laying around on the server, so I've now really upgraded and tested the site.

I created a game on urgaia, 10 VP to win, 10 VP total and (I hope I checked this) one extra pr. capital. The game launched succesfully, and if anybody joins, I will start the game tommorow evening (local time, but very close to GMT).

Again, sorry. From now on, no more just-before-I-go-to-sleep upgrades.

Johan K

February 16th, 2004, 10:04 AM

I belive "No nation select when resuming" is a pointless switch for a server. It might be useful for clients who want to connect quickly, but they have to specify it on their computers anyway.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 16th, 2004, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Johan K:
I belive "No nation select when resuming" is a pointless switch for a server. It might be useful for clients who want to connect quickly, but they have to specify it on their computers anyway. OK. I wasn't sure what it did, and decided to include it. I'll remove it.

In fact, I want to redesign the "New Game Section" to add some more descriptions and help for all the options... but first, I want to have AI's :-) And more stats http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Peter Ebbesen

February 16th, 2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
but first, I want to have AI's :-) And more stats http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Stats such as which nations are close to winning by VP would be VERY nice, if you can manage to extract them from the file. It is so easy to forget going to the right ledger page each and every turn, in order to see whether anybody else is close. (And to remind you that it is a VP game)

Which means that you can lose without expecting it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Of course, I would prefer if the GAME displayed an "You: x/maxVP Strongest enemy: y/maxVP" on the main game display all the time when playing a VP game, or second-best, displayed in line 1 of the monthly progress report, and likewise with dominion or province victory condition, but that is a different issue - and one that would make such games slightly more approachable. Having the enemies progress towards winning conditions hidden away in the second tier of a submenu has always seemed cruel and unusual punishment to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Tiltowait

February 16th, 2004, 04:17 PM

"I hadn't thought about either Valentine holidays"

It's why I was not here at least, to give you my heartfelt thanks for doing this for the dominions 2 community! You are a saint!

My comments
-Would it be possible to set a force-hosting schedule? For instance, I want to start a game that forces a host Monday - Friday at 11:55PM, no force on weekends.

-Custom maps please? Pretty please? It's not so hard to download them, especially when people are going to spend weeks/months stareing at them. (and I designed all my maps for balance with multiple people, since I am sick of computer opponents, and I really want to get feedback about some big games on them)

Esben Mose Hansen

February 16th, 2004, 04:48 PM

Re VP points: Definitely worth looking into. I'm not sure how much info can be extracted, but I'll try :-)

Custom maps: Point me to any, and I'll install them. I'll also make uploads possible once I've figured out how to do it without comprimising security totally. Anybody knows where dom attemps to load maps from? Only /usr/local/games/dominions2/maps?

And yes, the force host options are still missing. They will appear, probably tommorrow. I just have to design a bit of HTML first (and I'm not home tonight)

Thanks for your appreciation! The host is running 3 games right now without (apparrant) harm; I'll try to raise the limit to 10 :-D

Peter Ebbesen

February 16th, 2004, 04:55 PM

Try these MAPS (http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/maps.html)

Tiltowait

February 16th, 2004, 05:15 PM

Custom maps are on illwinter's site:
http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/maps.html

"Only /usr/local/games/dominions2/maps?"
Yes, only from there.

" the force host options are still missing. They will appear, probably tommorrow"

Holds breath http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Gandalf Parker

February 16th, 2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Tiltowait:
"Only /usr/local/games/dominions2/maps?"
Yes, only from there.
Actually there are environmental variables for things like maps and mods. You can keep all your maps seperate which for someone planning to host games I would highly recommend. Its too easy to forget (at least for my old brain) which ones came with the game, which ones players have to have downloaded, and which ones are half-working Versions of my own projects.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 17th, 2004, 12:57 AM

I see all the games have crashed, apparantly due to clients upgraded to 2.08.�I have just upgraded the server. It seems to work, but who really knows?

As for the stat file, it does not appear to be generated(?!). I can only find the first statfile which states something like

Statistics for game 'TestGameGamma' turn -1

Man played this turn
Arcoscephale played this turn

This is what it writes every turn :-/ What I'm I missing?

Oh, if some of you want a game restarted, drop me a mail/private message, and I'll restart the game where it left off...Doing this from the web page is also on my todo.

Finally, it appears that IllWinter has made game options availble for starting AI, so apparantly no map hacking is neccessary. Those options should appear soon, in the next few days.

I'll also have to find out how to make games without victory points. I'm guessing requiredVP=0, totalVP=0 and captitalVP=off should do it, but some bug in my scripts prevents me from trying this.

Well, goodnight, I should have been sleeping hours ago...

Johan K

February 17th, 2004, 01:09 AM

The statfile really doesn't list anything more than what turn it is, which player submitted their turn and which are computer controlled.

Gandalf Parker

February 17th, 2004, 02:45 AM

Ive been requesting more info in the statfile. Such as scoreboard, even if its just numbers in a text file. Maybe the pretender list and the heros list. Maybe a printout of who owns what province. I can see some nice "game progress" displays being made from it.

But at least we got --preexec. A directory view of the game dir will show who does then turns and who doesnt. A backup can be made. I can even set the game to shutdown instead of processing (in order to do an upgrade)

Reverend Zombie

February 17th, 2004, 04:06 AM

I started the "Zombies" game on Esben Mose Hansen's server, but I can't join it or the test beta game.

Is there a problem with the server?

Esben Mose Hansen

February 17th, 2004, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
I started the "Zombies" game on Esben Mose Hansen's server, but I can't join it or the test beta game.

Is there a problem with the server? What Version are you using? What is the symptons? What IP address do you use? What port#

Anybody else have problems? I'll run some test when I get home, but I had no trouble yesterday night.

Reverend Zombie

February 17th, 2004, 01:42 PM

I have patched to 2.08. I tried ip address 80.161.86.108 and port 2302 for the "Zombie" game. I receive the standard failure message that no server can be found.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 17th, 2004, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
I have patched to 2.08. I tried ip address 80.161.86.108 and port 2302 for the "Zombie" game. I receive the standard failure message that no server can be found. Strange, I cannot reproduce this. Try using the dns name for my server: "dom2.mosehansen.dk" That should rule out mistyping. Also, try pinging the my IP from your box. Can you do SSH? I could probably set up a sshd listening to port 2400 or something. With a bit more work I could have a telnet server, but I dislike having telnet on my box

Please, can anyone but me connect to the Zombie game? Nothing seems to be wrong on my end; so I need more data. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Gandalf Parker

February 17th, 2004, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
but I dislike having telnet on my box
I use nothing but telnet. Its not a problem unless you have reason to mistrust other machines in direct network to you at your end.
Its also a big moot point if you have standard email and ftp running.

I may upgrade one of my Dom2's later. I will try to remember to check your server

tka

February 17th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
I have patched to 2.08. I tried ip address 80.161.86.108 and port 2302 for the "Zombie" game. I receive the standard failure message that no server can be found. Strange, I cannot reproduce this. Try using the dns name for my server: "dom2.mosehansen.dk" That should rule out mistyping. Also, try pinging the my IP from your box. Can you do SSH? I could probably set up a sshd listening to port 2400 or something. With a bit more work I could have a telnet server, but I dislike having telnet on my box

Please, can anyone but me connect to the Zombie game? Nothing seems to be wrong on my end; so I need more data. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif <hr /></blockquote>I can connect to it.

Reverend Zombie

February 17th, 2004, 06:28 PM

Okay, maybe it is just me then.

Any advice on what I can do to ensure trouble-free connection to network games?

Esben Mose Hansen

February 17th, 2004, 07:55 PM

Thanks for testing my box. It is appreciated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I was gettting nervous for a while there.

As for connection trouble: Start with pinging my box, that is take a command line and do

ping mosehansen.dk

You should see some pings, nice and easily. Dependent on your ping program, you may have to press ctrl-c to stop it.

Then, do you connect to the internet via. a router? Some of these needs to be reconfigured to allow outbound connections. I'm not sure why some routers are configured like that, but many are. Maybe it is a Windows thing(?)

Re Telnet: Well, this box is hooked directly to the internet, so I guess I can't exactly trust all other computers on its net http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif ) And the problem with telnet is that it sends e.g. passwords in clear text. That I do not like. Standard mail does not have that problem, and no, I do NOT run an FTP server. I run HTTP (apache), HTTPS (apache), HTTPS/WEBDAV, SSH and IMAP/SSH. No password unencrypted for me, thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Besides, SSH serves all my needs very well.

Now, for the remaining options....

PhilD

February 17th, 2004, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

Please, can anyone but me connect to the Zombie game? Nothing seems to be wrong on my end; so I need more data. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I can connect all right (in fact, I am connected right now).

I thought you said something about adding a comment, but there is no text field for that. It would be nice to know if each game is supposed to start at some time, or if they're all just test games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Gandalf Parker

February 17th, 2004, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
Re Telnet: Well, this box is hooked directly to the internet, so I guess I can't exactly trust all other computers on its net http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif )Not that big a net. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That would die at the first hop. Just the net at your house.

The problem with telnet is that it sends e.g. passwords in clear text.I know. Its my job to know. But telnet vs ssh isnt nearly as cut-and-dried as most would be led to believe. But the difference isnt usually worth a debate.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 17th, 2004, 11:30 PM

====================== 1=================
FIRST OF ALL: I'm�having an electrician(?) over tomorrow to check our cabling (it's an insurance thing, long boring story.) I don't know what he'll do, but he may possibly kill the power. I do now own an UPS. I'll restart all running games as soon as he's out of the door. This will happen around noon, GMT. I'll post when it's over.�

Now, for todays comment & problems:

======================= 2 =================
Re Comment field: Yes, there is the beginnings of support for that. I'll finish it tommorrow.

In the meantime: If you create a testgame, or regret how the game turned out, drop me a message in these fora. Then I'll kill the game. Also, all the game named either TestGamexxx or BetaYYY are testgames, made during development. Join these at your own risk!

================== 3 ======================
BUT: I seem to have a problen. I've just added backend support for AI and hosting times. The hosting times work fine, but the server just ignores any AI. Can anyone get these options to work? If somebody do, you please post the command line used?

================== 4 =====================
I promised no more Last-minutes updates that weren't tested to a minimum. So I'll not be updating the frontend tonight. Tomorrow is a bright new day, though, and at least the hosttime and comment field will appear.

================== 5 =======================
If you want to contact me (quickly, e.g. to kill/restart games), try Jabber: mesbenh@jabber.dk I also own an AIM (MesbenH) and an ICQ (search).

Reverend Zombie

February 18th, 2004, 12:38 AM

Success!

Using the desktop shortcut with command switches I joined no problem.

Now, why would I be able to join this way, but not the "long way," i.e., starting the game, choosing network, entering i.p. and port manually.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 18th, 2004, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
Success!

Using the desktop shortcut with command switches I joined no problem.

Now, why would I be able to join this way, but not the "long way," i.e., starting the game, choosing network, entering i.p. and port manually. Great! Shall we start the game, then?

As for stating it the long way: Try using the dns name, dom2.mosehansen.dk. Just enter it where you entered you the IP number before. This is a better way in any case. It rules out a mistype...

Esben Mose Hansen

February 18th, 2004, 12:33 PM

The server is up again.

I'm very sorry, but the "Zombies" game died http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif No matter what I did, dominions did not want to resume --- it startet all over. My test game resumed fine :/

The server should now be up in the foreseeable future. I'll experiment a bit more with resuming games.

Sorry about this.

Reverend Zombie

February 18th, 2004, 04:18 PM

Okay, I will start another game soon.

What does the "upload time" option do?

Esben Mose Hansen

February 18th, 2004, 04:49 PM

Upload time: The no of minutes before the game will start automaticaly.

Specifiyng an upload time also prohobits clients from stating the game manully...

PhilD

February 18th, 2004, 07:42 PM

I created a Sundering game, where I'm in as Abysia. I'm not really looking for a serious game, but if one or two additional persons want to join for a few turns...

Esben Mose Hansen

February 18th, 2004, 11:37 PM

A new update is avaible:

1. You can now specify hosting times.
2. Games can now be started without VP.

Note that multiple hosting times does not work. This appears to be a shortcoming in the Dominion executable... but it is possible to select multiple hosting times on the webpage. All but the latest seems to be ignored.

PhilD : I've joined. Start whenever you think you have enough.

Anybody else: I have set up a game, real game, for real play. It will start in 24 hours, with at least one turn a day. There's 5 victory points + 1 pr. capital. I've joined as Man.

Reverend Zombie

February 19th, 2004, 02:14 AM

I've joined both games and suggested others do the same over in the DominionsX forum.

Thanks for providing this service, EMH.

[ February 19, 2004, 00:15: Message edited by: Reverend Zombie ]

Esben Mose Hansen

February 19th, 2004, 11:22 PM

Reverend Zombie: You're welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I hope to get some play out of this, and besides, I've long missed and excuse to learn CGI and mysql.

Todays update: It is now possible to add a comment to the game. Also, the game status has been changed to show what nations have joined in place of the VP fields.

Added backend support for restart.

Soon todo: Some primitive chat facility, a "game details" page, maybe with a kill and restart facility.

Far todo: Make adding AI work if possible. Work at styling the page. Make multiple host times work if possible. Publish the code under GPL.

Any other ideas? I can't implement any statistics unless someone come up with an idea for extracting this data from the game somehow, so the VP idea is not possible (sorry Peter).

I've been thinking about sending out a mail when a new turn is generated. Possibly, I could send out a Jabber (IM) or maybe an IRC message as well. Would that be helpful, or just annoying?

Reverend Zombie

February 20th, 2004, 12:30 AM

I thought I had joined the Sundering game as Ermor, but it will not accept my password. Any thoughts?

PhilD

February 20th, 2004, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
I thought I had joined the Sundering game as Ermor, but it will not accept my password. Any thoughts? When I launched the game (I'm Abysia), Ermor (I believe) was reported as connected, which surprised me. Now it's reported as having played the turn.

Is there something to prevent a client from "stealing" a nation from another?

Esben Mose Hansen

February 20th, 2004, 08:41 AM

Re stealing: I would have thought that the passwords for gods were the way to prevent this. However, if it doesn't work...

I havn't tried, though. I could enable some logging and kill the IP of any perpetrators, but really wish to have the server open & free for all.

Do try to experiment... you guys knows as much as I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm looking forward to making my moves... I know I probably suck in this game, but as long as I'm having fun being beaten up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Oh, and please avoid <,> in the comment field. Forgot about those. Will change it when I come home, doing tr/<>/()/g;

CharonJr

February 20th, 2004, 10:32 AM

It seems like I will have a lot of spare time on my hands this weekend and since this sounds very interesting I will surely take a look http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Expect me as R'lyeh cause I am fairly clueless about the other races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

BTW, I might have missed it in this thread, but want map is used here ? Or is it possible to make a choice ?

CharonJr

Reverend Zombie

February 20th, 2004, 01:04 PM

Re: passwords and stealing

I don't think the password prevents access until the game has started. During the nation-selection phase, it seems anyone can go in and "overwrite" another players selection of nation with their own pretender?

I am in the Urgaia game as Arco, would appreciate if no one "steals" that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

On another note, the Urgaia game seems perpetually stuck at around 83000 seconds for the countdown--when is it really going to start?

[ February 20, 2004, 11:06: Message edited by: Reverend Zombie ]

PhilD

February 20th, 2004, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
Re: passwords and stealing

I don't think the password prevents access until the game has started. During the nation-selection phase, it seems anyone can go in and "overwrite" another players selection of nation with their own pretender?
AFAIK, there is no way to "protect" a nation until the game is started. It would be a nice added feature if "open" network games are to become more standard.

One solution, I believe, would be to have the game start offline, as a PBEM game, then go TCP/IP. Not counting the upload question, do the command line switch allow this?

Esben Mose Hansen

February 20th, 2004, 04:56 PM

The HD ran full today. I did manage to save the quickSundering game, though, so I suppose all's well that ends well.

As you can probably see on the webpage, the participants/waiting for aren't exactly working yet. I will address this another day -- I need to take a day off from this, to regain my energy.

And yes, the WarsOfGaia demostrates (another) error in the game server: uploadtime doesn't work. It does count down, but not as fast as it should. My current theory is that it only counts down when somebody is actually Online.

Too bad about being able to steal each other gods. I would call that a bug in the game. Short of supporting PBM, I do not see what I can do about this.

I'll try to find a place to report bugs to Illwinter.And maybe I'll look into converting the server to PBM --- the TCP/IP server has a lot more bugs than I counted on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Or maybe I'm just tired.

PhilD

February 20th, 2004, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

Too bad about being able to steal each other gods. I would call that a bug in the game. Short of supporting PBM, I do not see what I can do about this.
At the least, it's a strange feature that there is no control of who can start the game or connect or whatever... I suppose the design was initially done with LAN games in mind.

I'll try to find a place to report bugs to Illwinter.And maybe I'll look into converting the server to PBM --- the TCP/IP server has a lot more bugs than I counted on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Or maybe I'm just tired. support@illwinter.com is at least OK to report bugs to.

As for the TCP/IP vs PBEM: I really like the TCP/IP option, but it might be much simpler to have a simple upload/download of turn files, with the hosting called when all turn files are in. Also, much lighter on the resources: you wouldn't have to keep a server running for each game. But the advantage of the Dom server is that it takes care of the password thing - only, it doesn't care until the game is actually started.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 20th, 2004, 11:29 PM

The server is up again. I had forgotten had a query logger running. As I'm using mysql extensively, this log mananged to hog 75% of my HD on the server.

It should be fixed now. I've already restart quickSundering. Wars of Gaia seem against all probability to have survived a full HD, and restarting the mysql database server. Sometimes, Perl is quite cool. Also I'm impressed with the Gentoo folks: A full root partition is usually bad news for any Linux. It didn't even complain (much).

As for a PBM versus TCP/IP, here is my take on it:

Advantages of TCP/IP:
-----------------------------
We've tried to do this. It sort of work.
It's convenient
Fast games are easy/possible.
Doesn't require a mailbox.

Advantages of PBM
------------------------------
Uses few system resources
Easy to work around bugs
Easy to backup/make stable
Easier to make up for Dominion shortcomings.
Doesn't require a fixed IP address.

But that's just my take on it. If dominions had no bugs, I'd say convenience overrule everything else. Now I don't know.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 20th, 2004, 11:33 PM

Forgot to say: I just happened upon the reason for the bug with "Waiting for" (I was assuming that all games were shortened to three chars). It's fixed, so now you can just surf to my servers main page to see if it's your time to move.

The Participants seems quite broken though. It may just be because QuickSundering has been started before I implemented this.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 22nd, 2004, 10:49 AM

Well, upload time is completely shot. At random intervals, the counter will start all over. I just watched it happen in the WarsOfGaia game.I think I will just kill that game sometime next week, and remove the upload time field from the webpage sometime.

An interesting observation is that the CPU requirement a game is actually quite low; except for the startup phase. So I think my little server could actually host quite a number of games, provided that only a few are in the upstart mode.

Anyway: interest in the server continues to be low. Anybody know why? Is such a server just not in demand; is it too buggy, does it miss a key feature...? At the current usage level, I cannot bring myself to use much time on it. I will let it run for a least a month, though, and see what happens. I will also watch this thread.

It was a fun little project in any case http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Johan K

February 22nd, 2004, 11:05 AM

Personally I think this auto server is a great idea, but I might be biassed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif How much timer do you use when it counts in a strange way?

PhilD

February 22nd, 2004, 11:25 AM

Breschau

February 22nd, 2004, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
Anyway: interest in the server continues to be low. Anybody know why? Is such a server just not in demand; is it too buggy, does it miss a key feature...? I hadn't realised it existed as I don't browse these forums all that often. I've not actually played Online yet, but something like this would greatly increase the chances of me doing so (and frequency in which I did).

Is that warsofgaia game waiting to start, or is it just between turns?

Esben Mose Hansen

February 22nd, 2004, 12:07 PM

The WarsOfGaia is suffering from a bug in the game: Uplaodtime doesn't work; it will restart counting down at random intervals, thus never starting. I could of course kill the game, and then restart it without upload time. Say the word and I'll try http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think PhilD is onto to something with the gettogether part. What do you think would work? A reference to an IRC channel? A built-in chat? A forum? I could manage those three rather easily, I think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Johan K: I had some difficulty trying to understand what you wrote. Did you ask how much I had originally set the uploadtime to? Then it was 25 hours, or 1500 minutes. That is around 90000 seconds. And thanks about thinking it's a great idea.

As for visibility, I don't think I can do much more than posting in these forums http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You are all welcome to spread the word, the server can surely handle it. Well, maybe not if you announce it on slashdot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Breschau

February 22nd, 2004, 12:53 PM

Well, fwiw I started the NewbieTest game that's on there now. Mostly default settings.. if I understand it right it's set to host every day at midnight and to quickhost (that means it'll auto host if all turns are in before the set time, yes?). And no upload time - gotta start it manually?

As the comment says, I have no idea what I'm doing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Peter Ebbesen

February 22nd, 2004, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

Anyway: interest in the server continues to be low. Anybody know why? Is such a server just not in demand; is it too buggy, does it miss a key feature...? At the current usage level, I cannot bring myself to use much time on it. I will let it run for a least a month, though, and see what happens. I will also watch this thread.
Ok, the following is not based on Dominions 2 as such, but on MP in general. I am pretty sure it is relevant for Dominions 2, though.

A key part of multiplayer games that you KNOW will run over weeks, or even months, of real time is that of having a coherent player group. It is not about random matchup with people who happen to want to join a game. The latter road will often leave you half-way through a game with people who just fail to show up because they are losing, have lost interest &etc. The player group is all about having people you can chat diplomacy with in-between sessions, that you get to know better, and that, because of the closer communication, can usually be relied on to stay dedicated. You take time to plan a game, you decide who plays which nation/faction, agree on winning conditions, optional rules (if any), and general hosting times.

Your site is IDEAL for small and quick MP games with a small number of participants, and such can be played in Dominions 2, but it is lacking in functionality that would facilitate larger games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Coordination of the schedules and backstabbing of the players involved is probably one of the most important aspects of long-term MP in general, and that often requires a dedicated discussion thread, sub-forum, or ICQ/IRC group set up. The ability to send an ingame-message that will be read next turn is just not sufficient compared to the level of diplomacy needed when eight or ten parties are each trying to arrange a triple-cross for next session. (This happens more often than one should think - probably also in Dominions 2)

Now, it CAN be used if such a group has already formed, and have opened communication lines, in which case your server provides a clear convenience for everybody involved; They can log on at nearly the same time and start a game without risking somebody random joining and spoiling the game setup - so long as the participants can be fairly sure that nobody else by mistake takes their turn.

As such, I would expect interest in small games with casual players to increase as the server stability increases and knowledge of your server spreads, but I would not expect it to get a massive inroad of traffic with regards to larger games unless the player-player issues are addressed.

I could see a situation where a game was arranged e.g. in this forum with its dedicated discussion thread here, with the stipulation that it was played on your server. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PhilD

February 22nd, 2004, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Breschau:
Well, fwiw I started the NewbieTest game that's on there now. Mostly default settings.. if I understand it right it's set to host every day at midnight and to quickhost (that means it'll auto host if all turns are in before the set time, yes?). And no upload time - gotta start it manually?

As the comment says, I have no idea what I'm doing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif One of the difficulties with the server is that someone has to start the game, and anybody can do it. There could be a consensus that the one who created the game gets to start it...

I joined as Abysia, BTW.

Breschau

February 22nd, 2004, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by PhilD:
One of the difficulties with the server is that someone has to start the game, and anybody can do it. There could be a consensus that the one who created the game gets to start it...Yeah, wasn't sure exactly how the whole game starting thing worked for mp. I'm not fussy who starts it or when, as I'm not sure how many players is good (or how long it'd take to "fill" the game).

PDF

February 22nd, 2004, 04:36 PM

The IP server is a good thing, but I don't think there'd ever be many IP games going : the game is really best played in PBEM... And the players are more pbem types too ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

What we still need is a PBEM server, kind'a PBW (the one for SE4). I'm pretty sure this will have more immediate success - this system has NO drawback on manual "hosting" , so every pbem game can migrate to it very soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PhilD

February 22nd, 2004, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by PDF:
The IP server is a good thing, but I don't think there'd ever be many IP games going : the game is really best played in PBEM... And the players are more pbem types too ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Not sure I agree with this... even for a "slow" game (PBEM speed), the TCP/IP play is simpler. And if you want a "quick" game (or even a 2-player game: not much diplomacy in there), there are no good reasons to play PBEM.

In fact, a 24/7 server like this one could be optimal, if the dom2 program itself were really made for it.

What we still need is a PBEM server, kind'a PBW (the one for SE4). I'm pretty sure this will have more immediate success - this system has NO drawback on manual "hosting" , so every pbem game can migrate to it very soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I don't know how PBW or SE4 work, so I cannot comment on this.

Still, this server has a huge advantage, IMHO: it hosts on Linux, so I get fewer buggy battle replays than when Pocus does the hosting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

February 22nd, 2004, 06:01 PM

I've started WarsOfGaia. I didn't realize so many had joined on that little map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif This should be interesting...

I have read, and not forgotten, your comments regarding the pros and cons of the server.�I still see no obvious advantage of a PBM hosting service against a TCP/IP-server, except as I've listed above (or rather below in this backwards forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ) I will mull this over, and maybe do something about the things I can.

Now there's 3 more or less real games on the server. That's fine by me, and justification enough for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It's not as though it is under any heavy load.

And yes, I think a gentleman agreement that the creator starts the game would be good, until such time that illwinter fixes the --uploadtime parameter. I will write this on the webpage at the next update.

Have fun!

Breschau

February 22nd, 2004, 09:20 PM

Do the others that've joined the NewbieTest game want to start with what we have (5 people)? Or wait for more? All my games have been offline so far, so I'm not sure what a good number of players is for mp on aran.
edit: i guess someone started it already

[ February 22, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Breschau ]

Gandalf Parker

February 22nd, 2004, 09:55 PM

the main advantage I see about PBEM is that a PBEM machine can start a game every day. For games that can run for months, a web server supporting tcpip games will probably be referred to as "a web server for Dominions2 but its full most of the time". Maybe the best method would be to offer both. Start the tcpip games as quickie games, and start the PBEM games as 1-a-day turns.

Johan K

February 23rd, 2004, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

An interesting observation is that the CPU requirement a game is actually quite low; except for the startup phase. So I think my little server could actually host quite a number of games, provided that only a few are in the upstart mode.
I just fixed that, so now the cpu usage for a text server should not exceed 0% except during turn generation. The high cpu usage was caused by too much text output.

Now I'll just have to take a look at the strange countdown too and see if I can reproduce it.

Gandalf Parker

February 23rd, 2004, 02:48 AM

Wow thanks. Did we get the "Start game and Quit" to work in Linux? I can get it to work in Windows.

Also did --preexec make it in? The only docs I have are the linux ones and I dont see it.

Johan K

February 23rd, 2004, 02:49 AM

The --preexec made it into 2.08 but a create game and quit did not.

PDF

February 23rd, 2004, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by PhilD:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by PDF:
The IP server is a good thing, but I don't think there'd ever be many IP games going : the game is really best played in PBEM... And the players are more pbem types too ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Not sure I agree with this... even for a "slow" game (PBEM speed), the TCP/IP play is simpler. And if you want a "quick" game (or even a 2-player game: not much diplomacy in there), there are no good reasons to play PBEM.

In fact, a 24/7 server like this one could be optimal, if the dom2 program itself were really made for it.

What we still need is a PBEM server, kind'a PBW (the one for SE4). I'm pretty sure this will have more immediate success - this system has NO drawback on manual "hosting" , so every pbem game can migrate to it very soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I don't know how PBW or SE4 work, so I cannot comment on this.

Still, this server has a huge advantage, IMHO: it hosts on Linux, so I get fewer buggy battle replays than when Pocus does the hosting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>PhilD,

Technically �P surely is the way to go, but from a practical standpoint I prefer to play by email without having to connect to a server, and with predefined hosting sessions.
PBW does just that : you can define your SE4 games, dload/upload files, etc.. everything's very neat and well done.

Esben Mose Hansen

February 23rd, 2004, 07:55 PM

Johan: Great you're looking into the uploadtime thing. That bug is very annoying http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif And really, really cool to avoid CPU load when idling. This means that the server can handle nearly the same load as a PBEM could. (Only nearly, because there's still the memory). Have you ever managed to create a game with AI/closed nations from the command line? Can you post a working one here? That would be REALLY helpful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

PDF: Just for the record: There's no reason to be Online with the server when taking your turn. Just connect, then disconnect and take your turn, then connect and upload (a message will tell you in some technoslang that this has happened.) Works great!

I have now listened and considered what you all wrote. So here's a rough idea how a matchup phase could be implemented.

1. Everyone wanting to join a multiplayer game registers with an email or similar + a login. When creating his account, the new player tells how many games he has played, and where he is on a scale of 1) often quit when losing to 4) always fight to the bitter end. Also, the profile would contain how many (more) MP games this player is looking for.

2. When creating a game, this can be done in matchup mode. That is, you state how many players, what experience level(s) (0-10, 10-100, 100+ games played) and "quit-likely" the gamers may be. Then the server sits around and await enough eligible players. When enough have gathered, a MP game is starting by sending out a master password to all players. The game is started automatically, and the title is sent along with the password. This should insure againt "people accidently dropping in".

3. After the game, statitics are gathered (who quit before the end etc.) and the profiles updated. That way, the profiles become more realistic. Profiles of a certain age �ould also be marked (to avoid constant reregistering to escape a bad reputation)

What do you think? It's rough yet, but could it work? Would anyone register? I can certainly implement most of the above with little trouble http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This would of course supplement the current very free form.

P.S: Would Cae be so kind as to make his moves in the games? I suppose I really should have made a fixed "host every 24 hours" rule to supplement the quickhost in the WarsOfGaia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Johan K

February 24th, 2004, 12:58 AM

./dom2 --closed 5 --easyai 7 --tcpserver --port 6666 myheavenlytestgame

That should setup a dominions server with one computer player (caelum) and one closed nation (ulm). This better be REALLY helpful now!

Esben Mose Hansen

February 26th, 2004, 10:59 AM

Another server breakdown. It appears that while restoring my server Last time I managed to reenable the very logging feature that caused it to crash in the first place.

All games should be restarted now; if I have missed your, drop me a mail!

Oh, and for some reasons the "participants" and "wait_for_turn" features broke. I have disabled them for now.

And Johan: Especially closing some nations would be REALLY useful ;-) In 14 days I have some holidays coming up, where I hope to get back to some of my planned features.

Meanwhile, the server seems to have gained some popularity :-D That's great!

Arryn

February 26th, 2004, 11:12 AM

I have added a link to your server page on my site's links page. I hope this will attract some more attention for you.

Keep up the great work!

Breschau

March 6th, 2004, 10:50 AM

To let you know, the NewbieTest game (port 2303) isn't hosting at the correct times anymore (was at 24h) and one of the players isn't playing anymore. So it's been at turn 3 for a few weeks now. Might want to just scrap it to free up space, I dunno.

Also the ones that're on 2305 and 2306 are listed as in progress, but if you connect it shows a small selection of nations and they're all listed Open. I selected vanheim for the 2306 game but it's not one of the nations that's listed (I'm quite sure there were about double the number of nations selected Last time I connected to it).

Gandalf Parker

March 6th, 2004, 03:58 PM

You might want to restart the host with a "process at midnight"

a kludgy work-around for missing players (if you didnt put in a master password) is to copy a turned-in file to the players name. It wont work for just any old file. If Man seems to be missing and Ctis has done their turn then copy Ctis.2h to Man.2h in the same directory.

This is good for when the player has actually been beaten but hasnt returned that Last file to the host to let the host know that they got that "you've been beaten" message. Im thinking that the host should maybe be rewritten to skip that.

Reverend Zombie

March 6th, 2004, 09:23 PM

The Urgaia game on 2301 has been static for about a week and could probably be killed, too.

The port 2305 game is running just fine, though. Breschau stated that "Also the ones that're on 2305 and 2306 are listed as in progress, but if you connect it shows a small selection of nations and they're all listed Open." but I think that might be because he did not load a Pretender for the 2305 game.

As Marignon, it takes me directly to the passoword screen.

Breschau

March 6th, 2004, 10:28 PM

I don't think I loaded a pretender for both of those, but I definitely loaded one for one of them. I just don't recall which one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Reverend Zombie

March 9th, 2004, 09:36 PM

The Apocalypse game is pretty full and has been listed as open for a while.

If the person who set it up reads this, could you post when you expect to start it?

AhhhFresh

March 10th, 2004, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
The Apocalypse game is pretty full and has been listed as open for a while.

If the person who set it up reads this, could you post when you expect to start it? I'm curious about that myself, as uploaded a pretender for it... and am anxious to try out this whole MP thing.

Is there a thread somewhere dedicated to this game for the players to comment on?

I think the webserver is great. Though it would be really sweet if there was some way to make comments or something that are linked to the games... kind of integrate the ease of starting an MP game and finding new players with a bit of communication. I don't really know if that is feasible though.

Breschau

March 10th, 2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Reverend Zombie:
The Apocalypse game is pretty full and has been listed as open for a while.

If the person who set it up reads this, could you post when you expect to start it? I'm wondering if they expected it to start when the timer ran out, not realising that that doesn't work just now.

liga

March 11th, 2004, 11:36 AM

I'm just looking fo someone to play a game (MP better but is ok also PBEM) with just 1 turn every 24 hour, not during the week end.

Possibly on a not too much big map with something like 10 nations

interested please write me at liga(AT)treemme.org

liga

March 11th, 2004, 04:08 PM

Do you also host on teh week ends ? is 2.06 or 2.08 Version ?

AhhhFresh

March 12th, 2004, 02:58 AM

I got tired of waiting to see what happens... so I started a new game. Anyone is welcome to join...

It's called "aran6to10plyrs"... none of my comments made it through (probably because I tried to put in a website link?)...

So the settings are:

Indy Strength: 6
Magic Sites: 50
Host Time: 24 hours

The rest of the setting are the defaults.

I also started a thread on the Gone Gold multiplayer forums, since there are a lot of people who dig the game there. Game comments should be directed to the following link, so as not to clutter up this thread.

GG Game Thread (http://www.gonegold.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=002101#000000)

Hopefully people will join, so I don't feel like an idiot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 11, 2004, 12:58: Message edited by: AhhhFresh ]

Esben Mose Hansen

March 13th, 2004, 09:13 AM

liga: The server runs 2.08. It's hosting all night, all day, all weekend, easter and so forth. It's never off, except when external causes causes it to be. (Last time was my cat).

Breschau

March 13th, 2004, 10:33 AM

psssst.. delete the NewbieTest game on 2303.. it's been on turn 4 for several weeks now.

Esben Mose Hansen

March 16th, 2004, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Breschau:
psssst.. delete the NewbieTest game on 2303.. it's been on turn 4 for several weeks now. Plus 3 days to protest, and none have done so. It is now officially dead,

Tell me if I need to "raise the dead". That goes for any game, BTW.

ywl

March 16th, 2004, 08:31 PM

A question: is it possible to change the hosting frequency after the game is started? For example, host every 24 hours for the first 15 turns and then 48 hours afterwards.

Esben Mose Hansen

March 17th, 2004, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by ywl:
A question: is it possible to change the hosting frequency after the game is started? For example, host every 24 hours for the first 15 turns and then 48 hours afterwards. Not easily, unfortunately. It can only be done with manual intervention. The only way to do this would be to kill the dominion server (dom2), then restart it with new options. This is not a problem (not even from a script), but handling anyone currently logged in is.

If I had designed the game, the hosting application (the turn generation part) would be distinct from the server (which handles uploads and such) and from the client (which would interface to the other; and start them locally if neccessary). But this is merely wishing... :-(

Norfleet

March 17th, 2004, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
Not easily, unfortunately. It can only be done with manual intervention. The only way to do this would be to kill the dominion server (dom2), then restart it with new options. This is not a problem (not even from a script), but handling anyone currently logged in is. Well, handling somebody currently logged in isn't really so difficult: The act of killing the Dominion server will take care of that for you: The aforementioned logged-in schmuck gets a nice, friendly, "Nagot Gick Fel" and is booted from the game the moment he tries to submit his turn.

Then when he reconnects, his turn data is uploaded just fine. No problems.

Esben Mose Hansen

March 17th, 2004, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
Not easily, unfortunately. It can only be done with manual intervention. The only way to do this would be to kill the dominion server (dom2), then restart it with new options. This is not a problem (not even from a script), but handling anyone currently logged in is. Well, handling somebody currently logged in isn't really so difficult: The act of killing the Dominion server will take care of that for you: The aforementioned logged-in schmuck gets a nice, friendly, "Nagot Gick Fel" and is booted from the game the moment he tries to submit his turn.

Then when he reconnects, his turn data is uploaded just fine. No problems. <hr /></blockquote>And if is kicked while uploading the turn? Does the dominion server handle that, or is his turn just corrupted/lost?

I have actually thought about this, as this way I would be able to implement all the timing features I want without relying on the (somewhat shaky/lacking) timing features of the dominion host itself. The problem of being kicked while uploading (and the difficulty of actually testing this) has kept me from trying, though. Being able to change the pace after a set number of turn would be just the beginning...

Norfleet

March 17th, 2004, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
And if is kicked while uploading the turn? Does the dominion server handle that, or is his turn just corrupted/lost?
I'm pretty sure the Dominions server is equipped to handle this: It probably writes the turn into a temporary file before accepting it at all. If you enter an incorrect password while logging in, I still see the data transferring to suggest that it's uploading a file anyway: If the Dominions II server actually overwrote the good orders, you could thrash someone's turn by trying to be him, even if you don't have his password. This doesn't appear to happen, however, as when I tested this, the file that was originally there was unaltered.

In any case, it would be no different from if the user crashed or got disconnected in mid-upload: Dominions II is smart enough to probably write the incoming data somewhere temporary. This shouldn't pose a problem.

Esben Mose Hansen

March 18th, 2004, 01:03 PM

OK, I'll try and include this in my rewrite. In the first incarnation, this will simply be the possibility to stop, start and restart games that has been created by that user.

Chazar

March 25th, 2004, 12:17 PM

Umh, I'd like to join/start a game soon, but I wonder if there is a possibility to stop a 48h-host game on your server for a short period of time, for I will be away during easter, and propably without internet connection...

So I decided to wait until after easter before I participate, easy solution, but still I wonder if a game could be laid dormant if all players agree? There might be other holidays coming up - and I'd rather wait for a fellow player than ruining a good game...

Norfleet

March 29th, 2004, 06:01 AM

Does your server host with renaming enabled? I've heard that it doesn't, which is increasingly eew. You should probably enable this option by default, if possible.

Esben Mose Hansen

March 29th, 2004, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Does your server host with renaming enabled? I've heard that it doesn't, which is increasingly eew. You should probably enable this option by default, if possible. I'd love to, but the option is not availble for servers. See (linux command below, adjust for whatever system you use)
<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
less `locate command_line_switches`
</pre><hr /></blockquote>for availble switches.

You could probably bug illwinter for it... it should be simple for them to put the option on a command line switch...

Meanwhile, my next gen server pages are nearing release time. When they do, I'll announce it here and start a new thread. If anyone is interesting in running their own server in this manner, write and I'll GPL the code & post it somewhere (sourceforce.net comes to mind). You would need a Linux machine with a static IP to do this; a Mac could probably do as well with a bit more work.

Zapmeister

March 31st, 2004, 04:37 AM

4 questions:

1. What does it mean when there are no nations at all listed in the Participants column?

2. What happens if all players abandon a game? Will the game get deleted by the system somehow, or will it hang around consuming a slot?

3. I started a game in which I'm pretty dang sure I left the Quickhost box unchecked. But the game is being quickhosted anyway. Is this bugged?

4. Is there a way of applying a victory condition (e.g. provinces) that isn't based on VPs?

Gandalf Parker

March 31st, 2004, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
[QUOTE] See (linux command below, adjust for whatever system you use)
<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">
less `locate command_line_switches`
</pre><hr /></blockquote>for availble switches.
Well thats a text document which is the Last place such a switch shows up. Doing a "dom2 -h" will get you the internal help file which is third to be updated.

if you want to hack abit in linux try
<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">whereis dom2
strings /usr/local/bin/dom2 |less</pre><hr /></blockquote>then use the / key to do a search for fullgrx which is the first switch on my list. Now you are looking at the list of switches in the game which is the second place updated.

The only other place a switch can exist is in the raw code. But it goes in-code switch subroutine, then in-code switch list, then in-code help file, then the comand_switch text file.

Viewing the list directly was interesting. I found 3 that arent listed in the help file or the command_switches file.

JaydedOne

March 31st, 2004, 07:03 PM

I've noticed that the server seems to have gone from a max of 15 games running to 10. Is it just a glitch that I'm seeing 12 of 10 available games running message? I was considering starting a second game sometime this weekend but don't want to put undue strain on the server if you're scaling it back.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 3rd, 2004, 06:30 PM

Maiguel: No, it's not a glitch. The server was beginning to feel the strain, and I thought it prudent to limit it below it's maximum capacity.

Gandalf: sure; I assumed the command line list text file would be easiest to understand. The few switches not listed are, as I would expect, rather uninteresting. But I should've checked, I suppose. Not used to close-sourced software, I guess.

Zapmeister: 1. It means the game was started during the period where a programming error caused the scripts to not record the participating nations. In other words: It was a bug, and it has been fixed.

2. Yes, the game just hangs around. If I notice that no one are making moves in that game, I might post here and then kill it. But it's all manual.

3. Yes, actually. I discovered it yesterday, but havn't fixed it. Sorry.

4.Again, the scripts can only supply the command line switches to dom2. I do not believe that any other victory conditions are avialble, but perhaps it can be done with a scenario? I will be happy to add any map/scenario you want until the upload facility is in place.

Have fun!

Zapmeister

April 5th, 2004, 10:07 AM

Yes, the game just hangs around. If I notice that no one are making moves in that game, I might post here and then kill it. But it's all manual.Right, I see. It might be worth taking a look at QuickSundering and BlitzDuel. If they're defunct (it certainly looks like it) then we only have to find one more to create a free slot!

[ April 05, 2004, 09:08: Message edited by: Zapmeister ]

PhilD

April 5th, 2004, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Yes, the game just hangs around. If I notice that no one are making moves in that game, I might post here and then kill it. But it's all manual.Right, I see. It might be worth taking a look at QuickSundering and BlitzDuel. If they're defunct (it certainly looks like it) then we only have to find one more to create a free slot! <hr /></blockquote>I still take a regular look at QuickSundering, though since it doesn't force-host, I'm afraid it's dead.

Also, wasn't the AllTheNations game supposed to have Quickhost on? If so, it doesn't right now; I'm wondering if the flag wasn't lost over a stop-and-relaunch (18 hours to go, with all players having taken their turn... too bad!)

JaydedOne

April 5th, 2004, 08:07 PM

As a sidenote, I'd just like to say thanks again for providing the server. In between notices about dead games, complaints about LINUX, and technical questions, I imagine it must be sort of nice to get those once and a while. The service is definitely appreciated.

Breschau

April 5th, 2004, 08:51 PM

apocalypse (2300) appears to have stalled or something - it's sitting with all turns complete but isn't quickhosting and doesn't display a time to next scheduled hosting.

And yes, the service is definitely appreciated http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

archaeolept

April 5th, 2004, 09:38 PM

yah, toolsfools has been trying to host for over the past hour.

as well, there seems to have been some sort of quickhost reset Last night??

archaeolept

April 5th, 2004, 09:58 PM

uh-oh. Now BigGame is trying to host...

looks like a real traffic jam.

Zapmeister

April 5th, 2004, 11:57 PM

Also, wasn't the AllTheNations game supposed to have Quickhost on?Actually, it was configured with quickhost off but, due to a recently-fixed bug, it was quick-hosting anyway.

archaeolept

April 6th, 2004, 01:49 AM

now 4 games have stalled

Esben Mose Hansen

April 6th, 2004, 10:48 AM

Looks like I'll have to take a look at it when I get home. Maybe it's time to roll out the new pages... it can't get much worse, can it ;-)

Something will happen within 36 hours, I garantee.

It may even be for the better....

Reverend Zombie

April 6th, 2004, 10:16 PM

Esbenmosehansen, for the Destiny game on your server, is there any way to allow a substitute player for Mictlan, or alternatively, set the Mictlan to AI?

The Mictlan player has dropped, but is password protected. We are hoping that master password is enabled for this game...

sergex

April 7th, 2004, 02:42 AM

Can't wait for the next server Version. Having quickhost turned off in the middle of our game somehow is really killing the pace...

archaeolept

April 7th, 2004, 04:12 AM

is it that quickhost has been turned off? I just thought there was some absolutely glacial processing of the turns - hasn't "Apocalypse" been trying to host for the Last day and a half?

but, yeah, get home safe (and soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) Mose.

Norfleet

April 7th, 2004, 07:26 PM

With the new rename switch enabled in 2.11, and the apparent demise of battle replay bugs, will rename be enableable, preferrably by default, on any future Mosehansen games? I'm looking forwards to some heavy-duty Mosehansen action.

Gandalf Parker

April 7th, 2004, 08:56 PM

There is also a new switch for --scoredump which creates an html file!

Also the --preexec command can now be used to post or email a view of the game dir which will tell who didnt turn in a turn file or who is always Last. Or it can be used to shut down the game if you wanted to switch the parameters that the game runs under.

[ April 07, 2004, 19:57: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

sergex

April 8th, 2004, 12:17 AM

2.11 is going to be great for Mosehansen! Any ETA on a new server Version?

Oh, and any idea where BiGGame went? It just disappeared today http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

April 8th, 2004, 02:44 AM

Everything takes longer than it should. That seems to be an universal truth http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks for all your comments --- I'm sorry I'm behind answering you all.�The answer to it all are: It will be better shortly. For now, without further ado, here comes...

...some new server pages! :-) The page with game details sucks, and I'm not too certain of the stability of the thing yet, but that will come. Here is the link.

new dominion2 pages (https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2beta.pl)

Please remember that little s in https when entering passwords :-D

I've made room for 5 games on these new pages... so if you're feeling brave and itching to get a game underway, here is your chance :-D

The most important new features of the new scripts are:

Registers who starts games.

* Game creates can stop and restart games.

* Possible to change hosting options on running games

* More detailed information.

* I will update the server tomorrow. It is well past my bedtime http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

* I hope I havn't missed any important features in the old scripts. If I have, write here.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 8th, 2004, 02:54 AM

This is where biggame went, BTW:

[server log]
Dominions Version is too old
Get an update at www.illwinter.com (http://www.illwinter.com)
myVersion207 fileVersion209 nation6

so expect to see the games come crashing down in the coming days :-/ More excuses to migrate games to the new pages (where restarting is but a click away...)

archaeolept

April 8th, 2004, 03:01 AM

hmm, that's a strange result for biggame, which was working fine before.

perhaps someone updated to 2.11 and it caused this fault??

edit: the toolsfools game has also disappeared.

as well, I don't seem to be able to connect to the new page? (usine IE 6. maybe i've got some setting messed up)

[ April 08, 2004, 02:08: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

Reverend Zombie

April 8th, 2004, 03:56 AM

Game Destiny has also gone bye-bye.

sergex

April 8th, 2004, 04:14 AM

The link from the old moshansen page is "http://www.mosehansen.dk/dom2beta.pl" but the link you posted here (that works) is "https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2beta.pl". I just wanted to point that out.

I started a new game on the beta page to see how it works.

Edit- It seems the game is listed as "stopped" and not "Open". How can people join the game I just made?

[ April 08, 2004, 03:20: Message edited by: sergex ]

Esben Mose Hansen

April 8th, 2004, 10:51 AM

The link is fixed now. Thanks!

The "Big Game 2" had problems because the name contained spaces. I have fixed this; so now game names can contain spaces.

And regarding all the games dying right now: It is because someone connects using a newer client. I'm downloading the patch right now, so this should be fixed in an hour for newly (re)startet games.

For games under the old system: I really would like them to move them to the new system. I will do this in stages, starting with just one game: WarsOfGaia. You should see no difference, except that the game wil be listed at the new pages.

And now I'm going to make some coffee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

April 8th, 2004, 11:35 AM

OK, the server is updated now. Note that spaces-in-game amazingly broken in this new Version. So all spaces get converted to _ before dominion gets 'em!

And we got our scoreboard! That's very cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Oh, I forgot to write: To start the Big Game 2 game, go into e.g. My Games, select the game and click "restart game". Yes, I know, it should've been a HTTP POST rather than a HTTP GET, but it was late. So you will get error messsaages if you reload the page.

djtool

April 8th, 2004, 02:33 PM

i'm a little confused. I login using the new link but I do not see any games. I seem to only have the options to logout, create new, and change player data.

AhhhFresh

April 8th, 2004, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by djtool:
i'm a little confused. I login using the new link but I do not see any games. I seem to only have the options to logout, create new, and change player data. That happened to me when I first created a profile... but when I went back later, I got all the options and could look at the available games and stuff.

[ April 08, 2004, 14:02: Message edited by: AhhhFresh ]

Esben Mose Hansen

April 8th, 2004, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by djtool:
i'm a little confused. I login using the new link but I do not see any games. I seem to only have the options to logout, create new, and change player data. Fixed. I also added more links after creating a new game.

WarsOfGaiai has been migrated succesfully. Considering that the most of the old games seems to have crashed in any case, I will migrate the rest, hopefully today.

Please note that I'll be gone from friday morning (GMT-!) to monday noon. Hopefully, the server will stay operational :-)

Keep the comments coming --- I'll try to implement as much as possible :-D

JaydedOne

April 8th, 2004, 04:01 PM

I'm in the Orania game as Pangaea. Perhaps it should get its own thread?

archaeolept

April 8th, 2004, 04:02 PM

Keep the comments coming --- I'll try to implement as much as possible option for turning off graphs in new game creation?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

ps. does this mean that all the old games will become functional again? If so, can your server also deal w/ the new games being created?

thanks for all your work, btw.

Edit: ok, I found the old games on the new pages. However, while BigGame has the nations listed, it is flagged as "stopped" and I can not connect. ToolsFools, on the other hand, is flagged as "in progress" yet has no nations listed, and so I can't connect there either.

has anyone managed to get an old game going?

[ April 08, 2004, 15:20: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

Gandalf Parker

April 8th, 2004, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by archaeolept:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Keep the comments coming --- I'll try to implement as much as possible option for turning off graphs in new game creation?<hr /></blockquote>I havent looked but is the option for external scoreboard added yet? (Hey IW, GREAT job on that!)
That could be modified by a --postexec command to change the name to the name of the game and move it to the web directory.

sergex

April 8th, 2004, 04:24 PM

Oh, I forgot to write: To start the Big Game 2 game, go into e.g. My Games, select the game and click "restart game". Yes, I know, it should've been a HTTP POST rather than a HTTP GET, but it was late. So you will get error messsaages if you reload the page.
Restarting the game doesn't seem to be having any effect. I tried to edit the settings but it said "Big_Game_2 does not exist." You can just delete that game to clear the slot if you want. It's not a big deal.

Oh, and how do we restart the old games that were migrated over?

Also

Esben Mose Hansen

April 8th, 2004, 04:53 PM

First of al: All old games have been migrated, and are now running. 14 games, and look at top:

<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">top - 16:30:55 up 3 days, 4:21, 5 Users, load average: 0.20, 0.22, 0.09
Tasks: 140 total, 1 running, 139 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
Cpu(s): 0.6% user, 1.9% system, 0.0% nice, 97.4% idle
Mem: 255632k total, 247140k used, 8492k free, 54980k buffers
Swap: 1028120k total, 12292k used, 1015828k free, 51576k Cached</pre><hr /></blockquote>97,4% idle.. not bad, eh? Good work, Illwinter!

Answers to your Posts since my Last post:

* option for turning off graphs in new game creation?
-->I can't find a way to do this from the command line. Show me how to do it, and I will do this.

*ps. does this mean that all the old games will become functional again? If so, can your server also deal w/ the new games being created?
---> Yes, except for toolsfools which had it's slot taken. The server seems to handle 14 games now with no sweat at all, kudos to Illwinter for this! (Also, my scripts are better now) I've just increased the limit to 20.

* has anyone managed to get an old game going?
---> WarsofGaia is fully going again; as should all the old games now, though I can only test this for games where I participate.

* I havent looked but is the option for external scoreboard added yet?
---> Yes, it was added, and I've enabled it, though the file just sits there for now. I may add the file to an IFRAME today as a "quick&dirty" pre-easter solution.

* Restarting the game doesn't seem to be having any effect. I tried to edit the settings but it said "Big_Game_2 does not exist." You can just delete that game to clear the slot if you want. It's not a big deal.
--> I messed around with that game quite a bit, trying to bring all the pieces together to handle spaces correctly. I think that's why it doesn't work. Anyway, I've deleted it.

* Oh, and how do we restart the old games that were migrated over?
--> Only games that you "own" can be restartet and stopped, for obvious reasons. But I have restartet them all now.

archaeolept

April 8th, 2004, 05:11 PM

I've just increased the limit to 20. sweet.
except for toolsfools which had it's slot taken oh that's so sad, and just when I was being invaded by three other nations...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

(well, actually i would have eventually nuked that huge Ermorian horde, and t'ien chi was just a serious irritiant. Caelum, however, was a real problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

great work mose

[ April 08, 2004, 16:22: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

Esben Mose Hansen

April 8th, 2004, 06:48 PM

For the experimental type, the scores.html for the games currently running are now availble as
Scores for TestGame001 (https://www.mosehansen.dk/scores/TestGame001.html)

substitute TestGame001 with the game name, of course. Have fun!

Truper

April 8th, 2004, 07:14 PM

Esben: Even though I haven't yet participated in a game on your server, I'd like to thank you for the service you provide to the Dom2 community. Wonderful work!

[ April 08, 2004, 18:16: Message edited by: Truper ]

Norfleet

April 8th, 2004, 07:33 PM

Does this work even if score graphs are disabled in-game? It seems like it's even better of an informational readout than even the basic scoregraph in-game, if it's available to everyone...

Gandalf Parker

April 8th, 2004, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Does this work even if score graphs are disabled in-game? It seems like it's even better of an informational readout than even the basic scoregraph in-game, if it's available to everyone... I was thinking the same thing. I use it on my solo games now and keep a browser open to it on my hard drive.

Pros and Cons. I like the numbers but the line-chart gave me a progression which was good to see also. Particularly to notice two nations whose armies seem to go down at the same times (at war with each other maybe).

Maybe both could be offered. Some webby person could save the score.html files to numbered Versions, and show the Last few days on one view. Maybe a next/Last button, or in one table, or multiple days in frames?

There are plenty of free graphing softwares. I could capture the data from that file each turn, and recreate the scoreBoards... but sheesh that seems like more trouble than just doing a screen capture and uploading the jpgs. Maybe someone more at home in that area.... I think I will go add that to the 3rd party apps thread.

[ April 08, 2004, 19:16: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Norfleet

April 8th, 2004, 08:51 PM

Now that there's a switch to enable renaming, has the server been updated to automatically enable renaming for any new games created? Games without renaming are awful now because it's really hard to keep your bazillion identically named mages straight.

Gandalf Parker

April 8th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Now that there's a switch to enable renaming, has the server been updated to automatically enable renaming for any new games created? Games without renaming are awful now because it's really hard to keep your bazillion identically named mages straight. I agree. In fact I dont know why it wasnt added to the game as being ON as a default. Or even not a selection, just on. (I cant believe I said that. Its so not-me)

djtool

April 8th, 2004, 10:57 PM

Yeah I tried to create another toolsfools game and it doesn't seem to be working.

I'd like to see the IP address displayed at the top and the port number listed for each of the game.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 9th, 2004, 12:33 AM

The "IP" is still dom2.mosehansen.dk (Just enter that name where instead of an IP--- it is much better way in any case). If you really want to know it is 80.161.86.108. And I do agree I need a bit more text on top of each of the views, I just didn't get around to it. All in good time...

The port can be found by browsing the game. Yes, it should probably be listed in some overview. That will be after easter, though,

I will add rename to the list of options, and make ON the default. It's not hard (just a row on a mysql database) but I really need to get some sleep now. Can't sleep for only 4 hours two nights in a row :-)

Yeah, I agree the game stats are a bit of a spoiler. I don't think the scores.html and the internal scores are related, but I havn't tested it. You are more than welcome to provide that testing :-D

Happy Easter, for those who get to celebrate it. :-D

Esben Mose Hansen

April 9th, 2004, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by djtool:
[QB] Yeah I tried to create another toolsfools game and it doesn't seem to be working.
]Try finding the game (e.g. from the My Games list), click on it to browse the game. If the option to "restart" the game appears, click it. Otherwise, go to manage game, and press submit. That should fix it.

Zapmeister

April 9th, 2004, 01:29 AM

I've created another 17-player Orania game, if anyone's interested. Port 2210, remember not to take anyone else's spot, and please don't Start Game.

Edit: I'm C'tis

[ April 08, 2004, 12:49: Message edited by: Zapmeister ]

AhhhFresh

April 9th, 2004, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
I've created another 17-player Orania game, if anyone's interested. Port 2210, remember not to take anyone else's spot, and please don't Start Game. I'm in as R'lyeh.

djtool

April 9th, 2004, 02:56 AM

i was only posting the ip address and port thingy from a convenience perspective 'tis all.

Stormbinder

April 9th, 2004, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

* option for turning off graphs in new game creation?
-->I can't find a way to do this from the command line. Show me how to do it, and I will do this. Ouch. Does it mean that all games on your server (btw thanks a lot for creating it in the first place!) are with Graphs turned on? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

( I am playing Destiny right now but I though the person who created the game decided to have Graphs instead of disabling them. Do youmean that there is no possibility of turning them off in games run by your server? )

Aslo I have a question - we have one person droping from the game without warning in our Destiny game. His nation is password protected, so we can't just find sub for him. I wonder if there is any possible way to remove that missing person from the gamecompletely, or to somehow override his password (by using master password perhaps?) so his nation could be given to human sub?

Thanks,
Stormbinder

[ April 09, 2004, 06:53: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Norfleet

April 9th, 2004, 08:25 AM

Hrm. There doesn't happen to be an anti-scoregraph switch.

There IS, however, a renaming switch, --renaming. Can this be added as default so that renaming will always be enabled? There's no particularly good reason now to not have it, since it makes managing your millions of mages otherwise an immensely bothersome chore.

z0dd

April 9th, 2004, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by archaeolept:
oh that's so sad, and just when I was being invaded by three other nations...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

(well, actually i would have eventually nuked that huge Ermorian horde, and t'ien chi was just a serious irritiant. Caelum, however, was a real problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

great work mose Yes, that game was just starting to get interesting. I think you were in for more trouble than you realised. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It's a shame our game had to die. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ April 09, 2004, 13:32: Message edited by: z0dd ]

Zapmeister

April 10th, 2004, 01:26 AM

No-one can connect to the game running on port 2210 (All_The_Nations). So I tried "Stop the game", with the intention of restarting it, but the page hadn't returned after 10 minutes or more, so I had to quit.

It looks like the game will be stalled until Mose gets a chance to look at it.

PhilD

April 10th, 2004, 07:31 AM

Two comments on the current mosehansen site:

* the use of https instead of http seems to confuse my browser (Mozilla/Linux): I can't make it accept the certificate once and for all. Minor annoyance.

* It would be nice to have the page mention somewhere which Version of the game is run by the server... I suppose it's 2.11, but it's always good to have. (whenever a new patch comes out, I keep connecting to each of my network games with the old Version until I get a crash, but not everyone will do the same)

* I seem to have trouble connecting to the (new) All_The_Nations game... (OK, that was 3)

Catquiet

April 10th, 2004, 07:59 AM

You are doing great work with the server, but I really miss being able to glance at a single webpage to check which of my games I need to take a turn in.

The yes/no grids are tedious to check. Could you add a View Turns page with just the game names followed by the names of the nations that have not taken their turn in that game?

[ April 10, 2004, 07:01: Message edited by: Catquiet ]

Kel

April 10th, 2004, 08:13 AM

Hmm, I don't seem to be able to connect to *any* of my running games. Ones that other people are apparently connecting to, based on the turn progress report. Ones that I had no problem connecting to when they were up on the old page.

- Kel

Vynd

April 10th, 2004, 12:07 PM

Like PhilD, I am having trouble with the certificate. I accepted it, but I'm still getting a message every time I connect to the site warning that it is invalid. It seems to be saying that the name on the certificate is not the name of the site. A typo perhaps?

djtool

April 10th, 2004, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by Zapmeister:
No-one can connect to the game running on port 2210 (All_The_Nations). So I tried "Stop the game", with the intention of restarting it, but the page hadn't returned after 10 minutes or more, so I had to quit.

It looks like the game will be stalled until Mose gets a chance to look at it. i'm having the same problem with the new 'toolsfools' game I started. perhaps it should just be deleted. and I did try the suggestions you posted toward me earlier.

JaydedOne

April 10th, 2004, 09:35 PM

A new problem has arisen for me:

While I can log into the game server just fine, it no longer seems to recognize my games as, well, mine. I can't modify them in any way or stop them. They don't show up on the My Games page either.

Strange.

Zapmeister

April 11th, 2004, 12:22 AM

Mose, we need you !!!

At least 2 games cannot be contacted (see earlier in this thread) and the server is full. We cannot stop, delete nor play those games. We cannot replace them with new ones. HELP !!!

AhhhFresh

April 11th, 2004, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by Miguel Duran:
A new problem has arisen for me:

While I can log into the game server just fine, it no longer seems to recognize my games as, well, mine. I can't modify them in any way or stop them. They don't show up on the My Games page either.

Strange. Were they games started since he upraded to 2.11?

My impression is that now, he is the master of those games (the 2.08 games).

[ April 10, 2004, 23:26: Message edited by: AhhhFresh ]

Cainehill

April 11th, 2004, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by PhilD:
* the use of https instead of http seems to confuse my browser (Mozilla/Linux): I can't make it accept the certificate once and for all. Minor annoyance.Same problem with Opera 7.23 on Windows - even installing the certificate didn't make it go away.

Catquiet

April 11th, 2004, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Catquiet:

The yes/no grids are tedious to check. Maybe if a nation has not taken it's turn, you could have the name written in red instead of black.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 12th, 2004, 03:55 PM

Phew! A full page of questions. I've answered most of them below; write me if I missed yours!

* ( ... Do you mean that there is no possibility of turning them off in games run by your server? )
--> Possibly. As I've said, I havn't experimented a lot with this. My server can do exactly the things archievable from the command line.

* Can this be added as default so that renaming will always be enabled?
--> It is now an option, default on.

* It's a shame our game had to die.
--> It's name slot was taken, sorry.

* [The All_The_Nations game] It looks like the game will be stalled until Mose gets a chance to look at it.
--> I confused myself with it's near-name brother AllTheNations, so I'm not really aware of what went wrong. It should work now, including Vanheim, which did not correctly register moved/not moved before.

* the use of https instead of http seems to confuse my browser (Mozilla/Linux): I can't make it accept the certificate once and for all. Minor annoyance.
--> I screwed up my self-signed certificate somehow. I'll redo it sometime. It's annoying, I know, but harmless otherwise. IMHO, the part of the "security" it is complaining about is useless in any case. BTW, I need the 's to avoid sending your password cleartext the first time. As people reuse passwords, that would be unacceptable. Using the https protocol for the rest of the session is just for avoiding hijacking your usename on this server, which is probably unneccessary.

* It would be nice to have the page mention somewhere which Version of the game is run by the server...
--> That information will be present at least on the front page, when I get around to creating one. I'll even try to extract it automatically from the game executable.

* You are doing great work with the server, but I really miss being able to glance at a single webpage to check which of my games I need to take a turn in.
--> Me, too. I'll do something about this. My original idea was to have this information on the "My Games" page by letting people register the games they were participating in. I still think that is the right way to do it, but it needs a bit of work.

* Hmm, I don't seem to be able to connect to *any* of my running games. Ones that other people are apparently connecting to, based on the turn progress report. Ones that I had no problem connecting to when they were up on the old page.
--> Strange. Please make sure that you're using the correct port&ip address. Note that some games have shifted the port number 100 in downwards. Also, try connecting to a game still in the 23xx range. Perhaps it is some firewall software?

* i'm having the same problem with the new 'toolsfools' game I started. perhaps it should just be deleted. and I did try the suggestions you posted toward me earlier.
--> OK, I've spotted the problem. Two problems, actually. I'll add them to my todo list. Oh, the game works again now, and should do so in the future. A matter of the database getting out of sync with real life due to a missing die handler...

* While I can log into the game server just fine, it no longer seems to recognize my games as, well, mine.
--> If the games were migrated, I did not track ownership in the original implementation. So when migrated, I took ownership of all games. Please email me if a game belongs to you, and I will gladly make it so. Remember your username!

* At least 2 games cannot be contacted (see earlier in this thread) and the server is full.
--> I did write I was on holyday, didn't I? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Anyway, the server shouldn't be full, and I can create new games without any trouble. Please post again if you're having problems with this.

Thanks for all your comments&support! Now for some garden work :-D

Norfleet

April 12th, 2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
* Can this be added as default so that renaming will always be enabled?
--> It is now an option, default on.I looked at the new game screen, and "allow leader renames" was not checked by default. Is the sense switch on this reversed, so checking it will actually disable renaming, or is it simply not default, and has to be enabled?

Esben Mose Hansen

April 12th, 2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
* Can this be added as default so that renaming will always be enabled?
--> It is now an option, default on.I looked at the new game screen, and "allow leader renames" was not checked by default. Is the sense switch on this reversed, so checking it will actually disable renaming, or is it simply not default, and has to be enabled? <hr /></blockquote>Fixed. Actually, the checkbox didn't work at all. I swear I tested... I must have dreamed it :-(

JaydedOne

April 12th, 2004, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

* While I can log into the game server just fine, it no longer seems to recognize my games as, well, mine.
--> If the games were migrated, I did not track ownership in the original implementation. So when migrated, I took ownership of all games. Please email me if a game belongs to you, and I will gladly make it so. Remember your username!
My migrated game (TentoTangoDeux) I knew I wouldn't have control over but there's two I've started fresh on the new page (Sweetback and HeyHo) which I no longer have control over. I had it for a few days but since then, it no longer recognizes them as mine. Which is bad as there's one (HeyHo) which I'd like to stop and have deleted.

I'm user JaydedOne, btw. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

April 12th, 2004, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Miguel Duran:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:

* While I can log into the game server just fine, it no longer seems to recognize my games as, well, mine.
--> If the games were migrated, I did not track ownership in the original implementation. So when migrated, I took ownership of all games. Please email me if a game belongs to you, and I will gladly make it so. Remember your username!
My migrated game (TentoTangoDeux) I knew I wouldn't have control over but there's two I've started fresh on the new page (Sweetback and HeyHo) which I no longer have control over. I had it for a few days but since then, it no longer recognizes them as mine. Which is bad as there's one (HeyHo) which I'd like to stop and have deleted.

I'm user JaydedOne, btw. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Well, there seems to be a logical explanation of everything. Here's the one I could come up with here: The match on username on log in is case insenstitive, but the "do this player own this game" is case sensitive. And your games were actually created with the login Jaydedone. With a lowercase o. In other words, you have found another bug in my pages. I've updated the relavant table definition, and updated the owning_player in the 2 games. No one else have done that little "test", so Iguess it should be cured now.

Thanks for the report, and for insisting :-D

djtool

April 13th, 2004, 12:49 AM

thanks for getting 'toolsfools' up and running. it doesn't show the nations but that's no big deal

Reverend Zombie

April 13th, 2004, 02:34 AM

Mosehansen, please kill the Destiny game. We have had too many people drop out and set their nation to AI. That really messes up the geopolitical situation.

Anyway, the remaining players have talked about this on the Dominions X thread for this game, and have decided to end this one.

Thanks as always for your service.

Zapmeister

April 13th, 2004, 08:21 AM

Mose - please delete the game All_The_Nations (note the underscores). This game has been replaced by a new one - Crowded_Land.

[ April 13, 2004, 07:22: Message edited by: Zapmeister ]

Esben Mose Hansen

April 13th, 2004, 09:12 AM

Destiny has been stopped.
All_The_Nations was already stopped.
toolsfools now has the nations updated correctly.

I guess I need another status: Stopped and will not be restarted. Or something.

Have fun :-D

archaeolept

April 13th, 2004, 09:31 PM

hmm, I'm wondering whether the victory conditions are bugged - Sweetback just ended on turn 8, and I figured that Miguel must have messed up, but Cohen just started another game, w/ Victory conditions "standard" and VP unchecked, and yet the conditions look identical to sweetbacks...

Esben Mose Hansen

April 13th, 2004, 10:07 PM

I can't say I've noticed any VP problems, but without a game and/or username it's hard to check... PLEASE if you problems with a specific game, post the username and/or game name.

[edit] Must've been blind. Found the sweetback game, and there does seem to be a bug. I'm trying to track it down now...

It seems all checkboxes are broken when creating new games. As a work-around, change the game options immediately after creating a new game. That should fix it. I've verified this works. I'll look into the real problem soon. The bug applies to rename, quickhost and capitalvp.

[ April 13, 2004, 21:38: Message edited by: Esben Mose Hansen ]

JaydedOne

April 14th, 2004, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by archaeolept:
hmm, I'm wondering whether the victory conditions are bugged - Sweetback just ended on turn 8, and I figured that Miguel must have messed up, but Cohen just started another game, w/ Victory conditions "standard" and VP unchecked, and yet the conditions look identical to sweetbacks... Aw baby! Show me some love! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

JaydedOne

April 14th, 2004, 07:49 PM

As a sidenote, I'm once again having problems with the server recognizing games I'm hosting. Sweetback no longer shows up as a game I'm running (granted, it's over, but it still shows as In Progress so I thought I'd mention it.)

Thanks again for all the work you're putting into following up on our gripes! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

April 14th, 2004, 07:59 PM

The checkboxes should work again.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 15th, 2004, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Miguel Duran:
As a sidenote, I'm once again having problems with the server recognizing games I'm hosting. Sweetback no longer shows up as a game I'm running (granted, it's over, but it still shows as In Progress so I thought I'd mention it.)

Thanks again for all the work you're putting into following up on our gripes! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Fixed. It was the login-names-were-not-sensitive-for a-while bug. And you're welcome :-D

Esben Mose Hansen

April 18th, 2004, 06:35 PM

I have uploaded a new Version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Main points:

There is a new "welcome" page.On this page, all games where you have not taken your turn and all games you own that are stopped are listed. This should eliminate the need to look through Yes/no tables :-D Also, on this page is the current Version of the Dominion server --- that was another request.

To enable the above, under the "View/Manage Game" view, player can now "confess", i.e. register themselves as playing a nation. Currently, this serves to create the welcome page, but in the future, email and/or Jabber message will be possible as well.

Finally, the general connectivity of all the pages has been improved, adding many links in a more generic way. Also, some bugfixes, internal improvements and so on.

As usual, post your bug reports here. Now I'll go cook some dinner http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Norfleet

April 18th, 2004, 06:43 PM

It's broken. It's unable to remember your login past one page: If you login, it'll say you're logged in, and then you click on something and it says you're not logged in.

Cohen

April 18th, 2004, 06:58 PM

Battle for Heaven stopped?

Why?

Esben Mose Hansen

April 18th, 2004, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Cohen:
Battle for Heaven stopped?

Why? Network error. Just restart it.

Daynarr

April 18th, 2004, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
It's broken. It's unable to remember your login past one page: If you login, it'll say you're logged in, and then you click on something and it says you're not logged in. I have the same problem.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 18th, 2004, 09:06 PM

Had the devil of a time reproducing the login bug. The problem is that the you must use the https protocol insted of http. But because all the links are relative, you won't discover this unless you use an external link.

I'll code something up to fix this once and for all. In the meantime, use
secure dominions II server (https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl)

That should work.

[edit] Fixed. Any attempt to use the http://..../dom2.pl script will now result in a redirection to https://..../dom2.pl.

Thanks to all for pointing out this flaw!

[ April 18, 2004, 20:21: Message edited by: Esben Mose Hansen ]

Esben Mose Hansen

April 18th, 2004, 10:33 PM

A serious bug has been nailed: It was possible to log in using ANY log in name, as long as it hadn't been used before(!) This meant that some of you logged in sometimes as wazooking and other times as Wazooking. Of course, wazooking did not have access to Wazooking's games, and they had two separate welcome screens.

I've just finished cleaning up, removing all players where a duplicate existed modulo case. The correct one was determined based on which one had additional info filled in (real name, email address, experience). What a bummer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Graeme Dice

April 20th, 2004, 01:26 AM

Is there a problem with the Login currently? I'm unable to login at the moment.

Norfleet

April 20th, 2004, 01:47 AM

You should add an command to decide "Oh, wait, that's not me", in case you decide to give your slot to somebody else, or just accidentally pick the wrong one.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 20th, 2004, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Is there a problem with the Login currently? I'm unable to login at the moment. Username and error message, please?

Esben Mose Hansen

April 20th, 2004, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
You should add an command to decide "Oh, wait, that's not me", in case you decide to give your slot to somebody else, or just accidentally pick the wrong one. I'll add it to my todo. Perhaps I should setup a soruceforge account, to get a bug tracking tool? I'm loosing track of all these (good!) ideas :-/

JaydedOne

April 20th, 2004, 07:06 PM

Another suggestion - any way we can have the site show who stale-turned after each host? I've got a feeling we've got two or three stale players on TentoTango right now and I fear what that'll mean for the long-term viability of the game.

Also, a possible bug - I'm controlling two armies in Twelve by High Magic on my PC - one for me (Marignon) and one for my girlfriend (Pangaea). For simplicity's sake, I assigned them both my ID on the site. I took my turn as Marignon and the site recognized that Marignon had gone but it also stated that Pangaea had when I know for a fact that my girlfriend hadn't (at the time) taken her turn or even opened it. Which side does the problem lie on, I wonder?

Graeme Dice

April 20th, 2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
Username and error message, please? The username is Gdice.
The error message is:
"Login failed. Please retry or contact site administrator to get password reset."

Esben Mose Hansen

April 20th, 2004, 09:26 PM

1. I've uploaded a new Version. It's mostly adminstrative changes, but I did include the option to "deconfess" to playing a nation. Note that the administrative bit was introduction of player group accesses, so it's quite possible it will go horrible wrong.

2. I can't find any user name gdice on the system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Could you please just re-register that login?

3. Stale-player detection is definitely on my todo list. It just needs a bit of infrastructure, of which the Confess bit represent the first bit.

4. How would you all feel if players could see one anothers details, like jabber id, email address, experience and so on? Only logged in players could do this, of course.

5. It would definitely be a bug if moving for one nation remove all nations in a game from the welcome points-of-interest table. If anyone sees this again, could you double-check by "view/manage" the game and checking the dreaded yes/no table for game nations? Check for inconsistencies with the point-of-interest table. Thanks.

P.S: About TentoTangedeux, this is the stats.txt file from Last turn:

Abysia played this turn
Pythium didn't play this turn
Man played this turn
Ulm played this turn
C'tis didn't play this turn
Arcoscephale played this turn
Ermor didn't play this turn
Pangaea played this turn
R'lyeh played this turn
T'ien Ch'i played this turn

So you have at worst three stale players. You could send them an ingame message and ask them to identify themselves or be killed.

[ April 20, 2004, 20:45: Message edited by: Esben Mose Hansen ]

sergex

April 21st, 2004, 03:34 AM

Ooo, I just thought of a useful feature! Can you add a field so we can put links of the threads in this forum for the games we start? I'm not sure if you can put in HTML comments in the comments field.

Great job, man!

[ April 21, 2004, 02:35: Message edited by: sergex ]

Daynarr

April 21st, 2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
4. How would you all feel if players could see one anothers details, like jabber id, email address, experience and so on? Only logged in players could do this, of course.You could allow players that are in the same game to see each others e-mail, as well. Of course, there should be an account option to ask players if they want to reveal such information (disabled by default).

Yossar

April 21st, 2004, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
P.S: About TentoTangedeux, this is the stats.txt file from Last turn:

Abysia played this turn
Pythium didn't play this turn
Man played this turn
Ulm played this turn
C'tis didn't play this turn
Arcoscephale played this turn
Ermor didn't play this turn
Pangaea played this turn
R'lyeh played this turn
T'ien Ch'i played this turn

So you have at worst three stale players. You could send them an ingame message and ask them to identify themselves or be killed. I know Ermor hasn't taken a turn in a long time. My armies have been walking around in his territory with no resistance for a while.

Pretty sure Pythium is out too. Inexplicably, nobody has attacked them, but army size, research, provinces, and income have all been flat for about 6 turns.

Not sure about C'tis. They're one of the strongest nations in the game so I'd be surprised, but you never know.

Gandalf Parker

April 21st, 2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
1. I've uploaded a new Version. It's mostly adminstrative changes, but I did include the option to "deconfess" to playing a nation. Note that the administrative bit was introduction of player group accesses, so it's quite possible it will go horrible wrong.Let me know when you get around to packaging the web interface.

4. How would you all feel if players could see one anothers details, like jabber id, email address, experience and so on? Only logged in players could do this, of course.From experience I would make it a game option, or leave it off. Known players is something we have from creating games here in the forum. Its been a common request to have some easy way to do anonymous games. Some players feel too restricted by playing within their personal reputations. For instance, "Gandalf Parker" is much more likely to never break an alliance agreement than "PsudoNym" is.

So you have at worst three stale players. You could send them an ingame message and ask them to identify themselves or be killed. In my notes about making a web game server (until you shot way ahead of me) I was considering creating a subdirectory for each game and making it an option to have stats and score file put there. Possibly other game info such as a way for players to converse and still maintain their login aliases.

Norfleet

April 23rd, 2004, 02:21 AM

Here's a big suggestion that could potentially take some work to implement, but be very awesome:

1. Don't use the Dominions II pretender upload interface: It's too prone to undesirable behaviors like accidental starting or overwriting. Instead, make people upload and delete their pretenders for the game through their web interface: That way, nobody can overwrite somebody else's slot, start the game prematurely, etc.

2. Implement AWOL tracking: A player has obviously staled when, at the time of a turn generation, his .trn file exists and is more recent than his .2h: If this occurs for several turns in a row, perhaps a number of turns determined at game setup, the player can be deemed to be AWOL. Since he had to submit his pretender through the web interface, the server now knows who he is: Display his AWOLness on the game status screen, and mark it on his permanent record.

3. Allow a player to hand his slot over to another player. Allow a player deemed to be AWOL to have his slot taken over by another player, if he did not password and can be subbed.

4. Configure the game setup such that the creator of a game can disallow a player who has more than X games AWOL to join: Thus, if BillyBob has gone AWOL in 3 games, and I wish to start a zero-tolerance game, such that no player who has ever gone AWOL may join, this player may not join the game. The caveat being that an unruly game-wrecker may attempt to create a second account to get around this. Also allow it such that games can be restricted to allow only those whose accounts were created BEFORE the game was created, or some other fixed date/offset. As a stopgap measure to reduce this occurrence, disallow anyone whose IP/email matches that of a player who has been recorded as going AWOL from creating another account. This won't catch them all, but it'll certainly make this harder, and be fairly trivial to implement.

rabelais

April 23rd, 2004, 10:04 PM

Mose, have you put in any anti-overwrite protection yet?

Love your site, btw. You Rock. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Is this a bug or a *new* feature?

Upon a mild change of strategic heart, I tried to overwrite my own pretender well before the start, but the pretender I ended up with is my first Version.

Is this new MP overwrite protection, or just me somehow screwing up?

If the former case, how *does* one amend one's design?

Rabe the Revisionist

Gandalf Parker

April 24th, 2004, 03:30 PM

Stopping overwrite:
Its kludgy but I was just doing some quick thinking on it.

Set the game to not be auto-started. Set a cron to watch the game directory and copy each upload to a safety directory renamed from name.2h to name+number+login.2h and when the game starts then copy them back to the game directory in reverse order for hosting. That way Man2joe.2h will be overwriteen by Man1bob.2h just before hosting.

Offer the Users login an option to delete a file created by their login so that Bob can delete Man1bob.2h allowing Man2bob.2h to be used when the game is created.

Like I said, kludgy. But something like that. Hole the uploaded files somewhere until the game is first hosted then select the ones which should be used. Heck its Linux. There is probably a hundred ways of doing it. Some use of RCS or CVS commands (which Ive always avoided). Probably the easiest would be to go to a php script or using zope to make uploads go thru the web page so you can control its actions.

Norfleet

April 24th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Or you could just make it so pretenders are uploaded on through the web interface instead: This will force it so firstly, only registered Users can play, and as a result, you'll know who's in the game: Thus, people can be penalized by blacklisting them in their permanent records if they go AWOL from games, even without having to be identified publicly....as most of the AWOLers are also the anonymous Users, with the new confession option.

With that in place, you could then setup a mechanism to disallow AWOLers from joining games with the low/no tolerance for AWOLness options enabled.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 27th, 2004, 09:53 PM

1. The source is here:

Dominion 2 host pages source (https://www.mosehansen.dk/dom2host.tar.bz2)
Note that it is licensed under GPL v2, viral and all. This means that if you modify and distribute it, you must publish the source. Also, the license notifications must be included.

2. Been a bit busy lately. I've just updated the pages, The only visible change is that it is now possible to set a master password. If anyone knows what this is supposed to be good for, please tell me. The only effect I can see/find is that "master password is enabled" appear in the game settings in the game. Please verify your findings --- you can use the TestGame005 if you please. Ulm doesn't have a password; and the password is "testpassword". The other two nations does have passwords --- these are "palm".

Regarding all the player stealing mess: I'm trying to find a solution. I want it to be in-game and as transparant as possible The best solution would, of course, be if the games themselves could be password protected. Why Illwinter didn't include this feature is beyond me. Maybe for next Version? Anyway, keep the suggestions coming, they are very useful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Have a nice night!

Norfleet

April 27th, 2004, 10:23 PM

The test game is crowding the slottage. Could you please stop the thing so we can bring the other regular games back up?

Also, master pass is mostly useless for people to set on your server: You may as well set a global server masterpass manually, because only the local host is able to use master pass. It's useless to use it from remote, it will still say "wrong password" and reject.

Esben Mose Hansen

April 28th, 2004, 11:57 AM

Well, sorry for taking up a slot on my own server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I've stopped the game now.

Pity about the masterpass thing. It is completely useless (for me) as I cannot run anything but textmode on my server. So much for that idea for removing stale players by making them computercontrolled. Back to the drawing board http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

April 28th, 2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Johan K:
I'll take a look at password protection for God uploading and check if it might be possible to use master password for network games as well.

What is the problem with having more than 15 games running on your old computer? Running out of memory perhaps? Thank you Johan. That would be so extremely helpful. Those two things (stealing positions and being able to change a AWOL player to computercontrolled) is no 1 and 2 on the wishlist, and ones I can't find a good solution for.

Yes, the reason for the low limit was memory considerations. However, I went ahead and actually read the man top, and found out that each dominions II game uses about 20-30Mb virtual memory. Or at least I think so. Between caching, shared libraries and shared memory I get terrible confused about what number to use.

Currently, the server has used about 500Mb virtual memory, while having 256Mb of RAM. I do not consider it wise to push it further.

<blockquote>code:<hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> total used free shared buffers Cached
Mem: 249 239 10 0 43 29
Swap: 1004 255 748</pre><hr /></blockquote>I think perhaps the number of games could be pushed to 20, but as this server is my everything from my email server to my Gentoo repository, I really don't want to test it to the point of destruction. I hope in the future that somebody else will add a server. Otherwise, we'll just have to make do with this one, until I happen to invest in a new computer.

Gandalf Parker

April 28th, 2004, 05:22 PM

I like memstat. I found it handy to use "memstat|sort -n" because it includes librarys and who is using it. Dom2 has improved ALOT in its memory useage and has plugged nearly all the memory leaks. (I think there is a windows-host leak still which has a fix in the next patch)

Johan K

April 28th, 2004, 08:59 PM

I have taken a look at it now and the master password will be usable for network clients too in the next patch. No password protection for god uploading though, but I have added a warning message that might prevent some people from stealing positions by mistake. Something like "Warning this nation is already controlled by a player. If you overwrite someone else's god Mose Hansen will visit you on next tuesday and beat you up, punk. Are you sure you want to take this risk?".

Esben Mose Hansen

April 28th, 2004, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Johan K:
I have taken a look at it now and the master password will be usable for network clients too in the next patch. No password protection for god uploading though, but I have added a warning message that might prevent some people from stealing positions by mistake. Something like "Warning this nation is already controlled by a player. If you overwrite someone else's god Mose Hansen will visit you on next tuesday and beat you up, punk. Are you sure you want to take this risk?". Great news about the master password :-D

I think what I will do, then, is this: When creating no-anonymous game, a new player will only get the port number after stating what nation(s) he wants to play. That should reduce the problem.

Thanks for your effort!

Johan K

April 29th, 2004, 01:14 AM

I'll take a look at password protection for God uploading and check if it might be possible to use master password for network games as well.

What is the problem with having more than 15 games running on your old computer? Running out of memory perhaps?

Daynarr

May 1st, 2004, 07:31 PM

Just a suggestion:

You could make direct link from starting (logged) players page to games he is playing. It will make checking game status faster and will encourage players to ID themselves in games they are playing.

You did great work with this server and helped MP community greatly. You earned a big THANK YOU from me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

May 1st, 2004, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Daynarr:
Just a suggestion:

You could make direct link from starting (logged) players page to games he is playing. It will make checking game status faster and will encourage players to ID themselves in games they are playing.

You did great work with this server and helped MP community greatly. You earned a big THANK YOU from me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'm not sure I understand... I already have a page that show which games the player havn't taken his turn in:
Points of Interests (https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.pl?page=WelcomePage#poi)
And a page that show games that a player either started or play in. Maybe it's because I don't recognize the "starting (logged) players page" --- which page is that? Sorry if I'm being dense
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

And you're welcome :-) And I appreciate all the suggestions I receive, even though I sometimes doesn't get around to thank you for them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif It's been a fun project; only wish I had 256Mb extra RAM of whatever type my Celeron 300Mhz server uses, so I could run more games simultanosly.

Daynarr

May 1st, 2004, 11:33 PM

Ahh, sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif You already have "My games" option that does what I suggested. I thought it only shows games you started. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Maltrease

May 1st, 2004, 11:51 PM

I started another thread where I suggested that you create a small Paypal donation button on your website... or somewhere else.

I would certainly be willing to donate $10-$20 for the purchase of more ram or whatever else you want to add to your game server. If everyone that used your server donated a few dollars it would be a decent amount of money to finance some upgrades.

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
only wish I had 256Mb extra RAM of whatever type my Celeron 300Mhz server uses, so I could run more games simultanosly.

Esben Mose Hansen

May 2nd, 2004, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Maltrease:
I started another thread where I suggested that you create a small Paypal donation button on your website... or somewhere else.

I would certainly be willing to donate $10-$20 for the purchase of more ram or whatever else you want to add to your game server. If everyone that used your server donated a few dollars it would be a decent amount of money to finance some upgrades.
While I really appreciate the sentiment, I really do not wish money for what I do. If I received money, I would feel I had to provide this service, and use the money to buy stuff for the server. That would kill the fun.

However, if anybody knows the type of RAM a Celeron 300Mhz computer would use, and had a 128--256Mb or so block of the stuff lying around, then I wouldn't mind accepting that. I doubt it is worth more than $20 now-a-days, though you never know. If you decide to do this, I'll take the server down, open the box and have a look inside to see how many slots are free.

And my next computer upgrade is probably in a few months in any case. Me & and my wife are getting cramped on our two non-server computers. If that happen, I migh even upgrade the server-to-be to 1Gb RAM --- enough for any number of Dominions2 games.

Again, I really, really appreciate the sentiment. But I do this for fun, and money would kill that fun.

Maltrease

May 2nd, 2004, 05:02 PM

I'm guessing your server uses PC100 RAM if it is only running on a celeron 300. I don't know if it would registered RAM or not.

You might try looking it up on Crucial.com

We probably have some old RAM at the office that we are not using any more. I'll check if I know exactly what you need.

[ May 02, 2004, 21:10: Message edited by: Maltrease ]

Esben Mose Hansen

May 3rd, 2004, 01:37 AM

Server pages has been updated. Check the news on the page itself (don't care to write the whole shebang again).

Though looking at the submitted jabber ids was interesting. My Favorites were "huh?" and "Iamnot@real" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Esben Mose Hansen

May 3rd, 2004, 08:34 PM

OK, I have matched up the output from cat /proc/pci to my stack of manuals and come to the comclusion that the server is using a Asus P2B-L motherboard or a very close sibling. It sports 4 DIMM sockets, of which 2 are currently taken by 128Mb modules (97% sure). The slots accept "Intel PC100-compliant SDRAMs (8, 16, 32, 64, 128 or 256Mb) up to 1024Mb", according to the manual.

I want to stress 2 things.I would really, really appreciate this. And I would use every megabyte for more games, which I think is something like 1 game/4Mb, though I would increase the limit gradually. But I want this to be 100% voluntary. In a few months the server will probably be upgraded in any case. I would say ETA is between 2 and 6 months.

If you decide to go ahead and do this, the address is, (transmogriffed to international mode:)

Esben Mose Hansen
Blomstermarken 2
DK-3450 Alleroed
Denmark

jimbo

May 5th, 2004, 03:26 PM

A few questions and comments about this server:

1. Totally Awesome! I hope you get your memory chips http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
2. I got into a game that started yesterday (Orania Fast) but was stopped on turn 1 with a note that some limit has been exceeded and the game can't be restarted. Yet there is now a new open game looking for players...this seems weird...and possibly problematic.
3. Memory space is at a premium, yet looking at the list of running games the ones running the longest (several almost a month now) appear to be still on turn 1 - and many have the "Hosting In" field blank...is there a bug in the website display or could these games reasonably be deleted at this point? If you aren't interested in the job of playing time cop for this server (and surely you have done plenty already) I would be happy to if that's possible. At a minimum I could keep tabs on the run list and send you an email of games going nowhere - again assuming the web data is accurate.

Esben Mose Hansen

May 5th, 2004, 09:48 PM

1. Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif The memory is unlikely --- the pricing of old PC100 RAM is just way more than I is willing to pay, even using someboy else's money :-/ Instead, I'm slowly expanding using virtual memory. We'll just have to see how far I can carry this. Currently swapping 320Megs with any overt problems.

2. The game was stopped on purpose. I don't log much information, but here it is from my server logs:

[Wed May 05 01:47:53 2004] [error] [client 203.173.3.90] Killing dominion2 game Orania_Fast, pid=26468 at /Game.pm line 362., referer: https://www.mosehansen.dk/cgi-bin/dom2.
pl?page=BrowseGamePage&game=Orania_Fast

Don't mind the time, my server's clock has gone ballistics. Probably the CMOS batteri is giving up :-/ Anyways, from the IP the game was killed from a dynamically assigned IP from iinet.net.au. Probably the game owner.

3. The turn counter was bugged. I think I've fixed it now, but all old games are screwed. If any particular game strikes anyone as dead, post here, and I will investigate. I don't have time to hunt for dead games myself. The hosting In was recently added; games need to be restarted (just go to the change game options and press submit without changing anything. Make sure the game is "in progress" afterwards". (Reload page at least once to make sure.) If not, repeat. And yes, it would be great if you'd care to hunt for dead games. I'm working on an automatic solution for this, but... there is so much to do.

Hope you enjoy the server despite it's problems. It's still very raw --- though it has come a long way since the first beginnings :-)

jimbo

May 6th, 2004, 01:49 AM

Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Norfleet

May 6th, 2004, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by jimbo:
2. I got into a game that started yesterday (Orania Fast) but was stopped on turn 1 with a note that some limit has been exceeded and the game can't be restarted. Yet there is now a new open game looking for players...this seems weird...and possibly problematic.The game was deliberately stopped because somebody started the game prematurely before players could all sign up.

Norfleet

May 6th, 2004, 04:36 AM

Suggestion: Change the connected/has taken turn display to no longer list the presence of a player in the event that he is defeated or goes AI, as indicated by the fact that he no longer has a .trn file.

Also, allow game owners to entirely delete games that are stopped.

Esben Mose Hansen

May 6th, 2004, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
Suggestion: Change the connected/has taken turn display to no longer list the presence of a player in the event that he is defeated or goes AI, as indicated by the fact that he no longer has a .trn file.

Also, allow game owners to entirely delete games that are stopped. The first is a good suggestion. I'll look into it.

I prefer to avoid the latter, since it would mess up my plans for making statistics, but some sort of "hidden", "not relevant" and/or "aged" flag+filter would be nice.

First I want map uploading to work, though. Then I'll implement something else that strikes my fancy. BTW, the connected column is useful for me when I stop+restart games to take advantage of new features....

But hey, anybody can implement whatever they like! The source is availble, just make a patch and send it to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (Sorry about that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Norfleet

May 6th, 2004, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
I prefer to avoid the latter, since it would mess up my plans for making statistics, but some sort of "hidden", "not relevant" and/or "aged" flag+filter would be nice.I'm not sure why you would want to keep statistics on dead games, such as the ones that failed to ever actually start, though. Given that a game will likely have at least one false start, wouldn't it better if the failed game could just be completely expunged, freeing the port as well?

Norfleet

May 6th, 2004, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
And perhaps one could imagine gamers who would avoid game creators with many games that have been restarted? I would, at least. Except that it's not really THEIR fault that the game had to be restarted, the blame can be squarely placed on the unknown individual who accidentally or deliberately started the game without permission, or the guy who uploaded his pretender over somebody else....

Esben Mose Hansen

May 6th, 2004, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
And perhaps one could imagine gamers who would avoid game creators with many games that have been restarted? I would, at least. Except that it's not really THEIR fault that the game had to be restarted, the blame can be squarely placed on the unknown individual who accidentally or deliberately started the game without permission, or the guy who uploaded his pretender over somebody else.... <hr /></blockquote>Before those statistics kicks in, both of those problems will be solved, somehow. Actually, I just had an idea on how to make sure that only the game owner can start the game: Just make --noclientstart a game option. Then the game owner could have it on in the beginning, and then turn it off from the change game option page before start. How does that sound?

The problem with pretender overwrites, on the other hand, HAS to be solved. This is what I am currently contemplating:

1. When creating a game, the port is NOT selected by the creator, but generated (in secret) by the server.
2. Then the players select what nation they want to play. This is recorded, and the port is displayed (to those players)

Not perfect --- I can't see how it can be without password protected slots on the server itself --- but pretty close, no?

Esben Mose Hansen

May 7th, 2004, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
I prefer to avoid the latter, since it would mess up my plans for making statistics, but some sort of "hidden", "not relevant" and/or "aged" flag+filter would be nice.I'm not sure why you would want to keep statistics on dead games, such as the ones that failed to ever actually start, though. Given that a game will likely have at least one false start, wouldn't it better if the failed game could just be completely expunged, freeing the port as well? <hr /></blockquote>Freeing up the port is a non-issue. I'll have a port-reclaiming feature ready way before we use up the 200 ports currently allocated.

I would like the statistics --- for fun. (Yes, I'm a mathematician, can't help it). And perhaps one could imagine gamers who would avoid game creators with many games that have been restarted? I would, at least.

Esben Mose Hansen

May 12th, 2004, 06:16 PM

Hmmm. Are you aware that there is empty new game slots on the server?

Anyways, I work from the feedback principle. If noone cares to comment on my suggestions, I'm certainly not going to implement any. So I've canned the suggestions posted below, and now go to work on other stuff (than the server)

Graeme Dice

May 12th, 2004, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
The problem with pretender overwrites, on the other hand, HAS to be solved. This is what I am currently contemplating:What you've described is probably the best way to do it without creating a web-based upload interface.

Gandalf Parker

May 12th, 2004, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Esben Mose Hansen:
1. When creating a game, the port is NOT selected by the creator, but generated (in secret) by the server.
2. Then the players select what nation they want to play. This is recorded, and the port is displayed (to those players)

Not perfect --- I can't see how it can be without password protected slots on the server itself --- but pretty close, no? Sounds good.
how about a cron that watches for file uploads and copies them to a save dir? If man.2h is there then 2Man.2h is put into the save dir. That way you can always restore.

In fact maybe the cron could always restore? A new Man.2h file is saved as 2man.sh but the original Man.2h is copied back. if a player meant to replace his god he would need to request a manual deletion of the...

OK new thought. Have the cron watch the upload directorys and remove the write priveleges on uploaded god files. Would that work?

*sigh* Im still thinking a php drag-n-drop might answer things. You could put all the checks and balances in then. I need to get off my ascii and try to get my own working. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Norfleet

May 12th, 2004, 07:44 PM

I still say web-based upload interface is best: This will also allow you to implement an element of accountability, so that people go AWOL from games can thus be blacklisted from joining future games automatically.

Esben Mose Hansen

May 12th, 2004, 10:52 PM

I may implement all 3 things, then. THEN we'll see who is right ;-)

Thanks for commenting again. I go strange without feedback, as you see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

The upload thing is very simple to do. I'll look into that first. As for the cron script, that would be simple too, though a bit worse (harder to test). I don't even need a cron script; the domwatcher script sees every upload. The main problem with that approach is no feedback. Still, it may not be too bad.

Graeme Dice

May 12th, 2004, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by Norfleet:
I still say web-based upload interface is best: This will also allow you to implement an element of accountability, so that people go AWOL from games can thus be blacklisted from joining future games automatically. I think it would be much simpler to just have the game owner confirm whether each applicant can join.

Norfleet

May 13th, 2004, 02:24 AM

Perhaps, but most of the time, it's generally implicit that people can join unless they have a history of not upholding their commitments. That, and it's always fun to blacklist people.

Esben Mose Hansen

May 18th, 2004, 06:35 PM

Feedback on my latest endeavor on the server would be welcome. To quote myself:

Pretender protection, stage 1 implemented:

From now on, pretenders cannot be overwritten from within the game. For each nation, the first pretender to be uploaded will be squirreled away in a safe place and restored just before the game starts. In other words, you can no longer steal somebodys position.

This could be problematic if somebody WANTED a pretender overwritten. To accomplish this, the game owner/creator now have the option to "kick all anonymous players" from the game. So to give up a position, just mark it as Anonymous and ask the game owner to kick all anonymous players.

Kicking anonymous players before game start would probably be a sensible move in any case to avoid AWOL players. Or at least learning which players tend to go AWOL.

This also means that being Anonymous is risky business, as it stands. If you have a problem with this, please let me know.

Norfleet

May 18th, 2004, 06:39 PM

What if somebody wants to overwrite himself? You should include the option for somebody who has claimed a slot to kick himself from the game.

Esben Mose Hansen

May 18th, 2004, 06:59 PM

Sorry Norfleet --- can't be done, since kicking somebody from the game involves a restart of the game server.

I only want game owners to be able to restart games, though I could easily change that. That is why it is done the way it is. Alternate solution are welcome, especially if it includes a patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

2 thing to keep in mind:

1. You can still kick yourself if you can contact the game owner: Mark yourself as Anonymous, contact the game owner and ask him to kick Anonymous players. Tough luck for those who wants to remain Anonymous, however.

2. Manual upload of your own pretender .2h file will be possible in the future. That way you could overwrite your own Pretender.

P.S: Careful with that word, "should". In the OSS world, that word can hang you out to dry real good. I've seen it happen and it's not a pretty sight.