Newbiegame3 , evil error

[Boron]

Final playerlist :

- Thufir : T'ien Chi
- DragonFire11 alias Melkor : Jotunheim
- Boron : Ermor
- Cohen : Abysia
- Msew : Ryleh
- Puffyn : Pangenea
- Lex : Caelum
- Tauren : Man
- FM_Surrigon : Vanheim
- Soapyfrog : Mictlan
- Huzurdaddi : Pythium
- Tyrant : Machaka
- Tannath : Arcosnuffle
- PashaDawg : Atlantis
- Regen : Ctis
- Grim Knight : Ulm
- Ygorl : Marignon




since our newbiegame 2 ( by aku ) is going to an end i host the successor on mosehansen since now a new slot is open there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

i would like to have about 12-17 players in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
about 8 slots are reserved first for the participants of newbiegame 2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

just claim your map preferences and your race you would be .

if we get 12+ players i plan to use the new small faerun map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

with fewer players we have to chose another map .


i would like to claim ermor myself .
claim your nations here .

the settings will be hof 15 , indies at 7 , common events and magic site frequenzy 50% , normal magic research .

edit :
the title is newbie game but intermediate players may join too of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

it will be 24 hours quickhost and i plan to use the special small faerun map with some provinces with special monsters .

if we get lategame we can perhaps turn on 36 h or 48 h quickhost .

edit 2 :

no anonymous players so please register at mosehansens server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

I'd like in as T'ien Chi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cohen]

I'm intermediate, may I join?

(Considering that Boron doesn't seem so newbye from what I can read from his Posts)

[Boron]

Cohen said:
I'm intermediate, may I join?

(Considering that Boron doesn't seem so newbye from what I can read from his Posts)



yeah sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[DragonFire11]

Cool. I will snag Jotunheim. (I'll be signed in on the server as Melkor). Thanks.

[Boron]

yeah uploading the small faerun map seems to have worked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

so remember some provinces are special and have special sites / guards etc.



do you want to play with or without victory points ?
atm it is without vp but if the majority wants with vp i will include them .

if you want a special setting include in your post something like :
preferred vp settings : vp 50 , 35 enough for win etc.

[msew]

<--- r'lyeh

[Cohen]

I'd play with Abysya.

Where do I dl the new faerun map?

[Boron]

current player list :

- Thufir : T'ien Chi
- DragonFire11 alias Melkor : Jotunheim
- Boron : Ermor
- Cohen : Abysia
- Msew : Ryleh
- Puffyn : Pangenea
- Lex : Caelum
- Panther : Man
- FM_Surrigon : Vanheim

probably also in from newbiegame 2 :

- Aku
- Klatu
- PashaDawg

[The Panther]

hm... you should not play Abysia, Cohen, since you are not really a newbie. Try something else!

[puffyn]

I'll join as Pangaea.

[Boron]

Cohen said:
I'd play with Abysya.

Where do I dl the new faerun map?



Gandalf hosted the map on his site but on a temp direction so i don't remember the url http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

at arryn's site you can get the map too though :
http://www.dominions-2.org/files.htm

[Lex]

I'm gonna take Caelum. I'm playing them in our team-based MP, and I'm curious to see how they would play in a normal MP.

[Lex]

daaaamn.. that's a big map. I love how 322 provinces is considered "small". It should be the "alittle-less-huge" Version

[msew]

here are the maps:

http://www.dom2minions.com/~tmpspace/

[Boron]

Lex said:
daaaamn.. that's a big map. I love how 322 provinces is considered "small". It should be the "alittle-less-huge" Version


yeah it is rather big http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

but for a 12+ player game the only other alternative that came to my mind was orania and i loved the old faerun map and the smaller one was not played in a mp-game so far and seems to be perfect for this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

anyway glad that you are in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The Panther]

I will take Man.

[Cohen]

If someone would like me to play with another nation, I'd like to use or Pythium or Arco.

[The Panther]

Well, Cohen, it is just that you are probably the best player in this game and taking one of the best races seemed a bit overboard to me. I just thought that Abysia should be reserved for a true newbie.

It is your call, of course.

[Cohen]

Ah, which map will be used of the 3 Versions?

(Fixed starts, random starts, don't recall the 3rd)

[Boron]

the one with fixed start + special monsters i wanted to play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

i have played the small one only once brief in sp though .
so if there some things are unfair for some nations then plz post them and we can use the one with no-specs instead .

if someone knows a good other 250-300 provinces map preferably without wraparound plz post it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif



cohen just feel free to play abysia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Lex]

Are these Forgotten Realms 'special monsters'?

[Pickles]

Thanks for the offer Boron but this map is just far too big for my tastes let some other boomer in the game!

Pickles

[Boron]

Lex said:
Are these Forgotten Realms 'special monsters'?


yeah in special locations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
edi made an awesome job . he renamed the leaders to famous forgotten realms characters , equipped them and assigned them sometimes special monsters and tried to chose the most thematic ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


oh and a few special provinces like big towns like waterdeep have a castle already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Stossel]

I'd like to take Vanheim

[Cainehill]

Gee - if Boron (who has been lecturing, at length, on the flaws of Dom2) and Cohen (Boron's "expert") are considered "newbies" or "intermediate", then surely _I_ would be considered intermediate as well, and thus allowed to join a newbie game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And no - I don't seriously want in; I just want to point out that the real newcomers and beginners are going to have 2 ringers (using powerful nations) in their midst. So they know who to team up against. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

Cohen said:
If someone would like me to play with another nation, I'd like to use or Pythium or Arco.



Heh. This still leaves you the player with the most games by far, choosing from the very top tier of nations (Abysia, Arco, Pythium (also Vanheim, Ermor, and Caelum)). Taking candy from babies?

[Boron]

FM_Surrigon said:
I'd like to take Vanheim



welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

just one thing : vanheim starts on the moonshae isles .
so if you want to get on the continent with your pretender without having to move through water you need to have either sail ( the allfather ) or magic movement like teleport / cloud trapeze on your pretender because you have no land connection to the continent .

[Stossel]

Ok thanks, that's good to know

[Boron]

oh i would enjoy if we all try to make some stories for our happenings/wars etc. on the board like in newbiegame 2 .

especially Pashadawg's , Lex's and Panther's lecture there is just GREAT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

Cainehill said:
...
So they know who to team up against. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Exactly! Diplomacy is the newby's great equalizer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Heh. This still leaves you the player with the most games by far, choosing from the very top tier of nations (Abysia, Arco, Pythium (also Vanheim, Ermor, and Caelum)). Taking candy from babies?




I'm in agreement with Panther and Cainehill - sounds a little dodgy, to me. I'm no longer the newest of newbies myself, so I'm not too worried to play against Cohen as Abysia (and I'm always willing to trust to the principle of piling on the leader http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), but I would like to see a game that's friendly to any true newbies who might care to join.

[Stossel]

I think I just messed it up!

I uploaded my god and then I must've smoked too much crack and accidentally hit the start game button. Well, mores the pity to my stupidity cause there was no crack involved.

Sorry, I'm a doofus.

[Boron]

FM_Surrigon said:
I think I just messed it up!

I uploaded my god and then I must've smoked too much crack and accidentally hit the start game button. Well, mores the pity to my stupidity cause there was no crack involved.

Sorry, I'm a doofus.



np [censored] happens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


what have i to do now ? restart or stop and rehost ?
can someone ( e.g. thufir ) tell me plz ?
thnx in advance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

FM_Surrigon said:
... accidentally hit the start game button.





S-t happens. I'm not sure what the best way out of this is, but worst case, Boron you can stop the game and recreate a new one.

Also, Boron, when you set up a game you should chose the game option "no client starts". Then when you are ready to start the game, change that option and then start the game yourself.

[Boron]

Thufir said:

FM_Surrigon said:
... accidentally hit the start game button.





S-t happens. I'm not sure what the best way out of this is, but worst case, Boron you can stop the game and recreate a new one.

Also, Boron, when you set up a game you should chose the game option "no client starts". Then when you are ready to start the game, change that option and then start the game yourself.



ah this is helpful didn't know that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

i will try stopping the game and creating a new one i think this is what you did with pandemonium too and probably the only solution http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

but for what is then the restart game option ?

[Boron]

ok created newbiegame 3 v2 and disallowed now clientstarts so now nothing should happen there anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

Boron said:
but for what is then the restart game option ?



I believe that you can stop a game for some amount of time and then let it run again, if that action does not cause you to go above the 23 game limit. However, if you have opened up a game I would guess that you won't be able to restart the old game (since open games likely count as running games, in terms of the running game limit).

In Pandemonium's case, I also disowned the game, though I don't know if that was necessary or useful.

[Boron]

Thufir said:
I'm in agreement with Panther and Cainehill - sounds a little dodgy, to me. I'm no longer the newest of newbies myself, so I'm not too worried to play against Cohen as Abysia (and I'm always willing to trust to the principle of piling on the leader http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ), but I would like to see a game that's friendly to any true newbies who might care to join.



yeah perhaps i should include if this is your first mp game ever and have never seen a sc in action then this might not be the right game too .

but most of us have i think a few games (1-5) running now and 0-2 finished . so most of us are exactly in between newbie and intermediate i think .


since randomness is such a big factor i think too high fear from cohen as probably the most experienced player in so far is not justified .
if cohen gets e.g. a row of bad events in the first turns like a labblow , unrest , indy attacks etc. i think even an expert player can't do too much against this .

and cohen was so kind of putting a small handicap at himself by taking abysia since they have a bit difficult starting position .


so i would say just go completely unbiased in the game and if anyone seems to be too strong there is then always diplomacy as you pointed out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

What the heck I'll try out Caelum. It seems like quit a powerful nation.

Oh and FM_Surrigon, I'm currently in one other MP game and I am playing Vanehiem and I have to tell you not being able to get your pretender off of the main island is a real pain. I was quite set back by it.

I was also set back by not knowing the starting locations of everyone on the map which you can learn by just starting a game with all of the players set to human.

I went into the crowded mainland and was quickly turned back and it cost me a good 4 turns. I then went south and took it from matchaka which was easier than getting involved with all of the nations of the mainland. I don't think I'll win that game ( faerun_folly ) but I learnt where to go and where not to go with Vanehiem that is for sure!

The starting conditions on this map are wildly differnet. You *really* should make a game with all of the players played by your to figure out the lay of the land. It will help stop you from making small ( perhaps not so small ) errors like I did!

[Stossel]

Ok, uploaded correctly this time.

[Huzurdaddi]

and cohen was so kind of putting a small handicap at himself by taking abysia since they have a bit difficult starting position .




1) I think Cohen took abysia since he thinks abysia is one of the most powerful nations around ( they have good blood and decent troops -- a very powerful combination ).

2) The starting position on this variant of the map is not nearly as painful as on the full faerun map. In this map he has decent provinces around him. His nearest neighbor seem to be T'ien Ch'i, widely considered one of the less powerful nations. Jotunheim is also somewhat close. But not really that close.

[Lex]

uh, I already called Caelum, Huzurdaddi, very sorry.

It looks like we might get this game started quickly, so I'll drop my work this evening and put together a new pretender (what was I thinking, getting work done on a saturday night!)

[Soapyfrog]

I'd like to play Mictlan, I'll upload tonight sometime...

[Boron]

Huzurdaddi said:


and cohen was so kind of putting a small handicap at himself by taking abysia since they have a bit difficult starting position .




1) I think Cohen took abysia since he thinks abysia is one of the most powerful nations around ( they have good blood and decent troops -- a very powerful combination ).

2) The starting position on this variant of the map is not nearly as painful as on the full faerun map. In this map he has decent provinces around him. His nearest neighbor seem to be T'ien Ch'i, widely considered one of the less powerful nations. Jotunheim is also somewhat close. But not really that close.



Huzurdaddi Lex has already claimed vanheim some hours before so you have to chose another nation because it is first come first serve sorry .
hopefully you find another nation you would like to play .
i have a current players/nations list in my 4th or 5th post on page 1 .


1. almost every player has a nation he likes especially . almost everybody though thinks another nation is too strong .

as it is most nations are quite viable if they fit your playstyle i think .
the only nation which seems really handicapped is Atlantis and a few themes like Arco GE , Tien chi base / Bk etc. seem underpowered .

2. you are right i thought starting is almost the same in small faerun and old large faerun . in old faerun the abysian starting location was really bad . but in small faerun abysia starts in a totally different starting location .



but abysia is hard to play because you can do so many things quite good but you have to decide what you do .
abysia is one of the living nations which has really extreme gold shortage through large periods of the game .
abysia is magically not as flexible as mictlan .

depending on whom you have to fight is also important .
if abysia has to fight an airnation is extremely painful for them i think .

finally your blood hunters are hard to protect too or force you to spend lots of money in castling .

abysia is surely one of the stronger nations but there are lots of other fearful nations too like vanheim , caelum or lategame a magically extremely flexible nation like arco / pythium etc. .
lategame abysia is still good but not the best choice i think .

[Boron]

Lex said:
uh, I already called Caelum, Huzurdaddi, very sorry.

It looks like we might get this game started quickly, so I'll drop my work this evening and put together a new pretender (what was I thinking, getting work done on a saturday night!)



yeah i go to bed now (3 a.m. here) if we have tomorrow morning already 14 players i will start immediately and if not then i will start hopefully at least later tomorrow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

just everybody who is in so far try to upload your pretender tomorrow or today http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Boron]

most recent players list :

- Thufir : T'ien Chi
- DragonFire11 alias Melkor : Jotunheim
- Boron : Ermor
- Cohen : Abysia
- Msew : Ryleh
- Puffyn : Pangenea
- Lex : Caelum
- Panther : Man
- FM_Surrigon : Vanheim
- Soapyfrog : Mictlan
- Huzurdaddi ???

probably also in from newbiegame 2 :

- Aku
- Klatu
- PashaDawg



wow already 10 players for sure .
looks good with 14 until tomorrow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

i wonder that nobody has claimed arco so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Thufir]

Boron said:
most recent players list :

- Thufir : T'ien Chi
- DragonFire11 alias Melkor : Jotunheim
- Boron : Ermor
- Cohen : Abysia
- Msew : Ryleh
- Puffyn : Pangenea
- Lex : Caelum
- Panther : Man
- FM_Surrigon : Vanheim
- Soapyfrog : Mictlan
- Huzurdaddi ???





Boron,

In order for Lex to be able to upload Caelum two things need to happen:

1) Huzurdaddi needs to set his current Caelum position to anonymous
2) You must kick off all anonymous players.

[Huzurdaddi]

Too bad Caelum is already taken. I really wanted to try them out.

I guess I'll go for Pythium. I've played them before in multiplayer and I would rather go for something different, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

[The Panther]

Huzurdaddi said:
I've played them before in multiplayer and I would rather go for something different, but you gotta do what you gotta do.



I hear ya. My plan is to play my first 17 MP games with 17 different races.

[Cohen]

So on I reupload Abysya?

However I play Abysya not because I think it's powewerful (IMO it's very weak compared to every air nation - caelum, vanheim, pythium), but because I like the demon taste and (ipothetically) good army (that lacks in Mictlan).

[Thufir]

Cohen said:
So on I reupload Abysya?

However I play Abysya not because I think it's powewerful (IMO it's very weak compared to every air nation - caelum, vanheim, pythium), but because I like the demon taste and (ipothetically) good army (that lacks in Mictlan).



I think Panther's original point, amplified by Cainehill, is that you are clearly the most experienced player in this group. As such, the sporting thing to do, would be to play a nation that you are uncomfortable with (e.g. Mictlan). Rapidly picking one of the most popular nations, that most people regard as one of most powerful nations, is sort of, well, "unsporting".

[Huzurdaddi]

but because I like the demon taste and (ipothetically) good army (that lacks in Mictlan).




Sure, like I said: decent/good army and blood. There are not many options when you want a serious blood economy you have Mictlain and Abysia ( and I guess Marignon Diabolic Failt, but turmoil ... bleech ). Those are the 1st tier blood nations.

Jotunhiem, Ulm-Black Forest these are the tier 2 blood nations. I suppose I should include vaniheim as a teir 2 .. but really their blood hunters are so expensive and so useful in combat that they are hardly a blood nation.



IMO it's very weak compared to every air nation - caelum, vanheim, pythium




Pythium is an air nation? Those 2A's are pretty expensive, fragile, and slow. I would really consider them much more of a tier 2 air nation right there with Arco.

Oh and Man LotT is also a tier 1 air nation.

[The Panther]

Abysia is maybe the most powerful race (or second most powerful after Caelum) simply because it can get blood slaves so fast that the arch devils for sure and even the ice devils typically belong to Abysia. It also can easily get hordes of vampires in the late game. Plus the fire 3 (or cold 3 with Caelum) is a free 120 points.

Abysia does miss out on the air queens, which is I think the point from Cohen.

The other thing is that Abysia (along with Caelum) are two of the first races selected in any MP game. Look at Eben Moses and see just how many MP games do not include those two races. The answer? Almost none! Pretty much only the ones where it is prohibited.

I cannot speak with experience, though, for I have played neither of these two races in an MP game. But they sure are quite popular among the better dominions players.

[Lex]

i've been studying the map, and Faerun is pretty cool. I love how major trading cities have income up to 250 gold!!!

And the map is so huge, its quite likely that many of us will go through the entire game without meeting some of the players (either due to death or geography). I've never played on such a big map, so this should be interesting!

Oh, and how do you spot a "special" province?

[Lex]

there's also Ermor which is often Banned because its the "most powerful". Truth is, there's at least a half dozen races that are no-brainer-powerhouses. The others require a bit more experience to really kickbutt. But it seems obvious that all the races, when played intelligently and while avoiding their weaknesses and playing to their strengths, can destroy all other races.

if the Devs got a dime for every time people realized how balanced this game is, they'd have enough money to hire some staff and finally improve the interface!

[The_Tauren13]

Panther has agreed to let me play this game instead of him. (We have the same CD key between us so us both being in the same game is, while not undoable, somewhat of a hassle.) I'll be playing man.

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
Pythium is an air nation? Those 2A's are pretty expensive, fragile, and slow. I would really consider them much more of a tier 2 air nation right there with Arco.



2 air only costs Pythium 250 gold. 1 Theurg and 2 communicants gives you more magical power than a single Arch Theurg. They can cast more spells for less cost. Arch theurgs give you better mobility than theurgs with communicants, but are otherwise only needed for searching for air sites and whatever randoms you may want.

Given enough time, Pythium is probably the most powerful nation available. Arco would come in at a close second, followed by the other strong astral nations. R'lyeh and Atlantis in particular thanks to their long-term survivability. The blood nations can also be very powerful given time thanks to things like the devil commanders and soul contracts, along with the very nice blood items. The death nations get all of the benefits of the various undead troops. The nature nations get wonderful summons like Lamias, great global enchantments, and troop enhancing battlefield enchantments like mass regeneration. Really, the only nation that has a lot of trouble as the game goes on is the two standard themes of Ulm. They very badly need to find useful independent mages to cover their weaknesses.

[Lex]

hmm.. I was looking at the map some more, and I noticed that Soapyfrog (playing Mictlan) currently has the entire Southern Hemisphere to himself! We definitly need 4 more players! (remaining races are Arco, Atlantis, Pythium, Ulm, Ctis, Marignon, and Machaka)

[Soapyfrog]

Hey, I am Mictlan I need every little advantage I can scrape up! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I figure if I can make it past turn 30, we'll have a GAME! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh, and how do you spot a "special" province?




Well I know of only 2 ways:

1) they have freaky troops in the scouting report. That usually means something is up.
2) You can simply look at the map file. That will also tell you exactly what is defending the province.

Oh and I just tried Diabolic Faith Marignon. Not Bad. With a very heavy bless (F9S9) they are not too horrible. Of course this means that you have no SC. And that's really, really bad.

[Huzurdaddi]

2 air only costs Pythium 250 gold. 1 Theurg and 2 communicants gives you more magical power than a single Arch Theurg.




Well yes and no. You have to realize that those communicants are *dead* if the battle goes on for any amount of time. If you have access to releif then they will survive a little longer, perhaps until turn 10. But then they are dead. And there is really nothing that you can do about it.

I have learnt my lesson with them. Make sure that when you use them the battles are short and sweet. This means pull out the biggest guns you have as early as possible. If you have research shimmering fields, bLast away. If you have nifel flames bLast away. You can control the exact endurance useage for the 1st 5 turns. And you probably can get your communicants to survive that time. If the battle goes 10 or god help you 15 rounds they will never survive.



R'lyeh and Atlantis




I would rank R'lgeh quite a big above Atlantis. They are really a 1st rate nation.



The blood nations can also be very powerful given time thanks to things like the devil commanders and soul contracts, along with the very nice blood items.




Indeed. Few nations scare me more than Blood nations that are able to sit for a while by themselves. They scale very well.



Really, the only nation that has a lot of trouble as the game goes on is the two standard themes of Ulm.




I would say Ulm, Atlantis, T'ien Ch'i and Matchaka all suffer as the game goes on.

Oh and probably Pangea, but not on this map. Hellkeep if they can keep it away from Ermor would, I figure, make all of the difference in the world. I know I would base my pangea strategy ( if I had one ) around getting that province and keeping it.



Arco, Atlantis, Pythium, Ulm, Ctis, Marignon, and Machaka




Only C'tis and Arco are really near him from that list. But it would be nice if those two nations are taken. They are both great nations. It's a shame to play without them.

And I *suppose* we need an atlantis if we have a r'lyeh.

Oh and hey, Pythium is taken!

[Tannath]

Hi, I would like to play Pythium, but as it is already chosen I'll try Arcos.

Thank you

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
Well yes and no. You have to realize that those communicants are *dead* if the battle goes on for any amount of time.



Which doesn't change the equation in any noticeable manner. Two communicants gives you the ability to cast more than three times as many spells as many spells as the master could normally cast. They are also cheap enough that you can afford a dozen a turn.


If you have access to releif then they will survive a little longer, perhaps until turn 10. But then they are dead. And there is really nothing that you can do about it.



Sure there is. You buy more in your wizard's tower.


If the battle goes 10 or god help you 15 rounds they will never survive.



As long as you have enough to bring the fatigue cost for any particular spell down to 1 per cast, then they can handle 5 spells per turn indefinitely. It's a matter of how many masters you have.


I would rank R'lgeh quite a big above Atlantis. They are really a 1st rate nation.



R'lyeh loses to Atlantis underwater due to its inferior troops in the early game, and loses in the late game due to its inferior mages.


I would say Ulm, Atlantis, T'ien Ch'i and Matchaka all suffer as the game goes on.



Atlantis has access to the highest astral income in the game more easily than any other nation. They should have little problem keeping up in the end game as they can reach the 100 clam benchmark at turn 51 using only their starting gem income. Shorter if they use the hammers that they'll have fairly soon.

T'ien C'hi is weak only if you don't use their superior forging ability and have to go up against a nation with astral magic.

Machaka has great counters to just about everything, but needs to build large armies to make it work. They also have as much gold income as they need to build these large armies once they get their fever fetish production going. Webs and tangle vines are great for killing SCs, and Machakan hoplites are the best human troop available.


Oh and probably Pangea, but not on this map.



Pangaea should always make use of its blood magic. Earth stones are a great investment for them. They can also swamp SCs with a horde of Lamias.

[DragonFire11]

I see the map file has a *.rar extension. Will this work? I wonder because all my other map files have *.map or *.tga. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[DragonFire11]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif Well I downloaded the Faerun_small.rar and, after placing it in the map file, Dom2 did not recognize it. Can anyone help? Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Graeme Dice]

.rar files are compressed. You need a program like WinRar to uncompress it.

[DragonFire11]

Dice - Thank you so much! That makes much more sense. And that program seems pretty nifty too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Tyrant]

I'll take Machaka if that's ok. I'm gunna upload tonight. I'll check tomarrow and back out if that's not acceptable.

[Lawless]

I met my hubby via an AD&D campaign in this map setting, so! My second big MP game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (I game mostly SP, or with my husband and one friend of his.) It looks like I can be the Dark Lady of either Marignon, Machaka, Ulm, C'tis, or Atlantis?

(Incidentally - their really ought to be more female pretenders. A friend of mine here, a translator, was interested in playing, until she realized almost all of the pretenders were male. Even ones that should be either - druids, lichs. Her friend's husbands are all playing lineage or Starcraft, but a lot of her friends might play if things weren't so predominantly male - her culture makes a big difference out of genders in some ways, but still - Korea is maybe the biggest computer game country in the world, per capita.)

[Huzurdaddi]

Which doesn't change the equation in any noticeable manner.




It sure does. That 100 gold is disposable. Don't get me wrong I generally make thurges + communicants instead of arch thurges, but you have to make sure that your wars are concluded in a few short battles or you are going to lose a lot of gold.



and Machakan hoplites are the best human troop available.




Really? I don't know what metric you are going by. In terms of awesome human troops I would think that the Emerald Guard would be the best human troops in the game. If you think that elves are human than probably vans are the best. If you are saying that they have the best price performance then I don't know what is the best troop. I always figured it was the principes of either Pythium or Ermor ( BE ) but really I have never crunched the numbers.



their fever fetish production going.




Yes this is, IMO their strength.

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh BTW we have so many players now, it would be *really* nice if we could get a full house. We should wait a day or two for that if possible.

[Lex]

Huzurdaddi said:


Oh, and how do you spot a "special" province?




Well I know of only 2 ways:

1) they have freaky troops in the scouting report. That usually means something is up.
2) You can simply look at the map file. That will also tell you exactly what is defending the province.

Oh and I just tried Diabolic Faith Marignon. Not Bad. With a very heavy bless (F9S9) they are not too horrible. Of course this means that you have no SC. And that's really, really bad.



i just looked at the map file, and almost everyone's got at least one special province near their capital, EXCEPT for Caelum!! what an outrage!!! the nearest specials are like right smack inbetween Ermor and Pangeae or between Pangeae and Vanheim! Talk about asking for trouble!!

(and I'm guessing that "special" provinces basically have alot more magic sites then normal provinces)

[Lex]

Thufir said:
Boron,

In order for Lex to be able to upload Caelum two things need to happen:

1) Huzurdaddi needs to set his current Caelum position to anonymous
2) You must kick off all anonymous players.




i've claimed the annonymous Caelum slot, and uploaded my God. so no need to kick off anonynous players anymore

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
It sure does. That 100 gold is disposable. Don't get me wrong I generally make thurges + communicants instead of arch thurges, but you have to make sure that your wars are concluded in a few short battles or you are going to lose a lot of gold.



Each communicant is only the equivalent of 3 principes in cost, and you'll lose more than that in a large battle.


Really? I don't know what metric you are going by. In terms of awesome human troops I would think that the Emerald Guard would be the best human troops in the game.



Machakan hoplites are far more affordable for nearly the same combat potential.


If you think that elves are human than probably vans are the best.



Human troops refers to units that don't have superhuman stats and aren't referred to as being non-humans or augmented humans. No humanbred, wardens, or van.


Yes this is, IMO their strength.



That plus having fire, earth, nature, and death magic, along with fairly cheap mages for most of those paths. They really don't have to worry much about undead SCs for example, with all the witchdoctors they'll have.

[Boron]

good morning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

new player list :

Thufir : T'ien Chi
- DragonFire11 alias Melkor : Jotunheim
- Boron : Ermor
- Cohen : Abysia
- Msew : Ryleh
- Puffyn : Pangenea
- Lex : Caelum
- Panther : Man
- FM_Surrigon : Vanheim
- Soapyfrog : Mictlan
- Huzurdaddi : Pythium
- Tyrant : Machaka
- Tannath : Arcosnuffle
- Deccan : Atlantis
- Lawless : ???

[Boron]

Lex said:

Thufir said:
Boron,

In order for Lex to be able to upload Caelum two things need to happen:

1) Huzurdaddi needs to set his current Caelum position to anonymous
2) You must kick off all anonymous players.




i've claimed the annonymous Caelum slot, and uploaded my God. so no need to kick off anonynous players anymore


yeah saw it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
if you want to be 100% sure though you can go anonymous , i kick it now and you reupload http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Boron]

still unassigned :

-Marignon
-Ulm
-Atlantis
-Ctis

so if we could get at least 2 more players would be great imo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
if nobody wants to play atlantis i understand this .

but would be really great if we get a full house or at least 15 players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[deccan]

Is Atlantis somehow penalized on this map?

[Boron]

deccan said:
Is Atlantis somehow penalized on this map?


not afaik they have even a rather good position because they and ryleh have each a sea for themselves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

my statement was just because atlantis seems to be the least liked nation of all for mp .

[Tannath]

I have 2 questions:
1 - What do you think if the unassigned nations are played by the AI? That way we would have a full map.
2 - When are we going to start? I need a few hours to work in my pretender...

Thank you

[deccan]

This is using the faerun small map right? If so, then I'll take Atlantis. At the very least I can hide in the ocean so hopefully I won't be killed too quickly.

[Boron]

deccan said:
This is using the faerun small map right? If so, then I'll take Atlantis. At the very least I can hide in the ocean so hopefully I won't be killed too quickly.



yeah the small faerun map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
you have a rather good position there as atlantis imo .
the sea for you alone and your nearest neighbors have not too good go to water abilities .
so you shouldn't be wiped out too quickly and i am happy you chose atlantis so we hopefully get now really a fullhouse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Boron]

Tannath said:
I have 2 questions:
1 - What do you think if the unassigned nations are played by the AI? That way we would have a full map.
2 - When are we going to start? I need a few hours to work in my pretender...

Thank you



2 : no problem if everybody has uploaded in about 12 hours i will probably start the game if not then tomorrow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
at the moment 8 pretenders are uploaded so no need to hurry tannath http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

1 : we have only missing now Marignon , Ulm and Ctis .
hopefully we find 3 players for them in the next hours .

with your ai player idea :

everybody who has an opinion on this please post your preferences . i will check the votes then later today and if the majority wants them go ai if they are still unclaimed i set them to ai .
oh and please claim the ai difficulty level you wish if you wish ai players too .

[Regen]

Ill take C'tis.

[The_Tauren13]

i vote for impossible AIs

[Thufir]

I vote against AIs.

(but if we must have them, make them impossible).

[Cohen]

iI'd agree to fill the map with Impossible AI.
At least there will be no one that has a nice amount of provinces for itself without any fight except the indies.

[Tannath]

I vote for impossible AI.

[Lex]

yup, go AIs!

oh.. just curious: if atlantis expands to where Vanheim is, would they cut off Vans from the continent? Or can Vans sail accross enemy seas?

and I'm gonna trust in the Mose server that my pretender has been uploaded properly. Everything seems in order.

[YellowCactus]

Might Join up if this game is still open in a day..
(Buisy watching the Hurricane!)
-Yc

[Huzurdaddi]

not afaik they have even a rather good position because they and ryleh have each a sea for themselves




Not on the Version of the map I downloaded. In the big faerun map they each have an ocean. In this one they are in the same ocean.



Machakan hoplites are far more affordable for nearly the same combat potential.




I don't know what you mean by "nearly the same" they are relly different units. The Emerald Guard simply have better stats.

And if you want to talk about affordable or price/performance then I addressed that. I think that the principes are probably a better price performing unit. And now that I think of it all of the "free" units are probably the best price/perforamnce ( slaves/Maenad ).

So we are only missing Ulm and Marignon. Let's wait a couple of hours or even a day to fill those two spots with people. Even insane AI's suck compared to people.

[Lex]

Rlyeh is SUPPOSED to be in the Sea of Fallen Stars, but instead they appear to start on the Sword Coast, just North of Vanheim... strange

[Huzurdaddi]

Rlyeh is SUPPOSED to be in the Sea of Fallen Stars, but instead they appear to start on the Sword Coast, just North of Vanheim... strange




A little weird I admit. But it probably works out well. Those two will see ( sea ) action right away.

[Grim Knight]

I will play as Ulm.

[Huzurdaddi]

I will play as Ulm.




SWEET. That only leaves marignon. Come one someone must like them. A holy empire. Solid troops. Lots of fire power.

[Ygorl]

I'll give Marignon a shot. Just give me a bit to figure out a pretender...

[The Panther]

Boron, you may have missed it in all these Posts, but I have relinquished control of Man over to Tauren. I will not be playing in this game.

[Huzurdaddi]

I'll give Marignon a shot. Just give me a bit to figure out a pretender...




Thanks! Full House. SWEET. Now I have to figure out that winning thing.

[Boron]

cool .

now the complete player list :

- Thufir : T'ien Chi
- DragonFire11 alias Melkor : Jotunheim
- Boron : Ermor
- Cohen : Abysia
- Msew : Ryleh
- Puffyn : Pangenea
- Lex : Caelum
- Tauren : Man
- FM_Surrigon : Vanheim
- Soapyfrog : Mictlan
- Huzurdaddi : Pythium
- Tyrant : Machaka
- Tannath : Arcosnuffle
- PashaDawg : Atlantis
- Regen : Ctis
- Grim Knight : Ulm
- Ygorl : Marignon

[Boron]

cool 14 people have already uploaded their pretenders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

only Msew , Soapyfrog and Dragonfire11 left . If you upload your pretenders in the next few hours i can start before going to bed otherwise tomorrow morning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Beorne]

I wanted to play .... sigh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif too late.

PS: change the title on "status: closed" so one hasn't to read 100 Posts to find there's no more space http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[deccan]

Huzurdaddi said:


Rlyeh is SUPPOSED to be in the Sea of Fallen Stars, but instead they appear to start on the Sword Coast, just North of Vanheim... strange




A little weird I admit. But it probably works out well. Those two will see ( sea ) action right away.



Hey it's a bug! I object. Put the Cthulhu wannabes back where they belong!

[Lex]

just to confirm, the Mose server has not updated the patch, right?

[Tannath]

Just uploaded my pretender.
Only Jotunheim and Rlyeh are missing.

[Karacan]

Lex said:
just to confirm, the Mose server has not updated the patch, right?



I am pretty sure he'll publicly announce any tempering. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Boron]

Tannath said:
Just uploaded my pretender.
Only Jotunheim and Rlyeh are missing.


yeah they are still missing .
hopefully tomorrow morning ( = about 10 hours from now ) they have uploaded and we can start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Cohen]

I'm playing all my games with 2.13 without any problem.

[Boron]

Cohen said:
I'm playing all my games with 2.13 without any problem.



You should play with 2.12 . Johan said that 2.13 works but battereplay inconsistencies can occur if you play a 2.12 game with 2.13 patch .

[PashaDawg]

I would like to join as Ulm, if I may. But, be warned Boron, I have BIG PLANS for revenge! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

~Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Ooops. Nevermind. I see you have a full house. Have fun!!

[deccan]

Boron,

Sorry, but I'm pulling out. Since another newbie game is starting (and a really newbie one at that), I'd prefer that one instead. Besides, I thought I would have a sea to myself to start with. No offense meant to anyone. Have fun! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DragonFire11]

Hello, yes I see I still have to sign on! It will be done in a few minutes. Since Boron is pulling out, I'll post PashaDawg to join in his spot.

[Boron]

deccan said:
Boron,

Sorry, but I'm pulling out. Since another newbie game is starting (and a really newbie one at that), I'd prefer that one instead. Besides, I thought I would have a sea to myself to start with. No offense meant to anyone. Have fun! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Np . In the old faerun you had a sea yourself and i dunno if it is a bug here or intended that Ryleh + Atlantis start so close together .


I would say lets start now with 16 players but i wait a few hours and leave it meanwhile open .
Plz post your preffered options :
-Start
-Wait a few hours for a new atlantisplayer
-Turn atlantis Ai

[Boron]

if nobody Posts an opinion or joins as atlantis really quick i start in about 4-5 hours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The_Tauren13]

i would like to wait for another... theres just something cool about a game with all 17 nations.

[PashaDawg]

Ok Ok Ok... STOP PRESSURING ME!!! God Lord Almighty up in Heaven! Will I ever get some peace? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gifhttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I will jump in at Atlantis. When are you starting? Can I have a bit of time to tweak and prune a God Pretender?

[Boron]

PashaDawg said:
Ok Ok Ok... STOP PRESSURING ME!!! God Lord Almighty up in Heaven! Will I ever get some peace? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gifhttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I will jump in at Atlantis. When are you starting? Can I have a bit of time to tweak and prune a God Pretender?



Glad that the mighty Spider Lord is in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

i will start now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

I have uploaded my spooky scary wicked Atlantic God Pretender. Y'all might as well admit defeat now. /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

I think that fills all of the slots.

[Lex]

sweet!!! this should be fun! 15 hall of fame right? And Indy 7? I hope everyone remember to put a password! (otherwise you can still reupload a new pretender before the game is started!!) and if you read this too late and you have no password, well, stay quiet and no one will notice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Thufir]

PashaDawg said:
I have uploaded my spooky scary wicked Atlantic God Pretender. Y'all might as well admit defeat now. /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

I think that fills all of the slots.



Awesome! I was hoping you would join us - I was a clandestine reader of the Newbie Game by Aku thread, and always looked forward to the next post by the Great Spider Lord. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Bah! The GREAT SPIDER LORD was but a oily blackhead on the divine tush of the wise and omniscient WISE ANCIENT KRACKAN KING of the OCEAN… (WAKKO for short).

Beware, the WISE ONE is swimming as we speak… biding his time… waiting for the right time to STRIKE the dry land and drag all of your mothers, fathers and children into the cold salty deep. Their doom is certain, and they shudder in their dreams with DISPAIR.

[Lex]

AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Someone else's pretender is playing Caelum!!! Its a different password!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif noooooooo!!!!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

I uploaded my pretender like 5 times to be sure!!! And it still didn't override the first person's pretender!?!?

[Huzurdaddi]

I just checked and I was able to log in with my password with Caelum. Looks like it's Borked. Sorry Lex. Maybe we can restart. I don't know though with this many people.

I hope I don't get a key violation for checking.

I also got my 1st shot at my pretender design instead of my latest Version. But I'll live they were both good.

[Boron]

Lex said:
AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Someone else's pretender is playing Caelum!!! Its a different password!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif noooooooo!!!!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

I uploaded my pretender like 5 times to be sure!!! And it still didn't override the first person's pretender!?!?



WTF http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

now we see that my concerns were true but you said i shouldn't kick you to be sure when i asked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

what do we do now ?

[Thufir]

Lex said:
AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Someone else's pretender is playing Caelum!!! Its a different password!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif noooooooo!!!!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

I uploaded my pretender like 5 times to be sure!!! And it still didn't override the first person's pretender!?!?



I've never tested this myself, but I've heard it said that re-uploading a pretender does not work. This is why I told Boron he had to kick the anonymous players.

I know this is a pain, but I think this justifies a restart (as in killing and recreating the game).

Edit:
Unless you can kick anonymous players on turn 1, and re-upload still. But I'd guess that's not possible.

[Lex]

I've just made myself anonymous on Mose server (you can kick me now) and I'll upload a pretender fresh. is there a way to restart without everyone reuploading pretender?

[Thufir]

Lex said:
I've just made myself anonymous on Mose server (you can kick me now) and I'll upload a pretender fresh. is there a way to restart without everyone reuploading pretender?



Probably not - but we should try.

[Boron]

Lex said:
I've just made myself anonymous on Mose server (you can kick me now) and I'll upload a pretender fresh. is there a way to restart without everyone reuploading pretender?



i will try that if someone can confirm that it works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

i think it doesn't work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
i will write esben a pm or post in the thread for his server to ask him what we can do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

hopefully there is a solution without restarting the game .

i fear though that the 2 solutions are :
-continue the game and Huzurdaddi plays caelum or gives you his password and you play his caelum
-stop the game and everybody has to upload again
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[PashaDawg]

Lex said:
AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Someone else's pretender is playing Caelum!!! Its a different password!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif noooooooo!!!!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

I uploaded my pretender like 5 times to be sure!!! And it still didn't override the first person's pretender!?!?



Gosh. You're listed on the Mosehansen site for this game as Caelum. Hmmm. Is there a way to restart or something?

[PashaDawg]

PashaDawg said:

Lex said:
AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Someone else's pretender is playing Caelum!!! Its a different password!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif noooooooo!!!!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

I uploaded my pretender like 5 times to be sure!!! And it still didn't override the first person's pretender!?!?



Gosh. You're listed on the Mosehansen site for this game as Caelum. Hmmm. Is there a way to restart or something?




Ignore me. I was living in the past. /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Might as well restart and re-upload.

[Thufir]

Boron said:
i will try that if someone can confirm that it works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Confirmation is up to you, Boron. As game owner, I know that prior to game starting you will see an option to kick all anonymous players. I know this option disappears in later turns, and I'm pretty confident that it's not there on turn 1 (but since I own no games on turn 1 - I can't confirm, tho you can). If you don't see such an option, then we know we're hosed.




i think it doesn't work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
i will write esben a pm or post in the thread for his server to ask him what we can do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

hopefully there is a solution without restarting the game .



I agree that it is unlikely Esben will have a solution for us, but do please post us asap, as soon as you hear back from him.




i fear though that the 2 solutions are :
-continue the game and Huzurdaddi plays caelum or gives you his password and you play his caelum
-stop the game and everybody has to upload again
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



As much as it is a large PITA, I don't think in the big picture it's that it's such huge issue for everyone to re-upload. We would lose a day worst case, and I know if I were in Lex's shoes, it'd be pretty frustrating to play someone else's pretender.

[Boron]

I don't see the kick anonymous players option anymore .

But i had an idea which i posted now on Moses serversthread :

If Lex sends manually his pretenderfile to Mose perhaps Mose can replace Huzurdaddi's pretenderfile with Lex's pretender and everything works . What do you think ?

i will check every 2-3 hours now the thread hopefully Mose answers soon .
As long i keep the game running and if Mose's response is negative then we can rehost .

[Lex]

we've all got our pretenders tweaked already, and everyone's about to login for their first turn, except instead of playing turn 1, we simply reupload and start asap (its not like the first couple of turns are the most thrilling anyways)

as for the kicking-of-anonymous-players, i guess I've just proved that you've gotta do it. if anyone sees this happen again, you can say you've seen it live and bought the tshirt.

[Boron]

Lex said:
we've all got our pretenders tweaked already, and everyone's about to login for their first turn, except instead of playing turn 1, we simply reupload and start asap (its not like the first couple of turns are the most thrilling anyways)




Uhm lots of players have probably overwritten their pretender already again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I just wait a bit now for Mose's reply and if it is negative i restart then ok ?
But i hope that my suggested "walkaround" works and it would be the easiest solution then cause nobody needs to reupload anything then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

Boron said:

I just wait a bit now for Mose's reply and if it is negative i restart then ok ?
But i hope that my suggested "walkaround" works and it would be the easiest solution then cause nobody needs to reupload anything then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Boron,

I'm skeptical about the manual workaround. It's a good idea, but while it might well work in the end, manual steps like this usually take a couple of tries before getting it right, by which time we might have gotten a restart off the ground. I also feel a little funny about asking Esben to nursemaid for us, as he's done a lot by providing the server in the first place.

Anyhow, I wouldn't wait too long before doing the restart - if we're going to do this the sooner we get it over with the better. If everyone's around today (and today is a holiday in the US), then we might still get this off the ground in a few hours.

[Lex]

Today's Labour Day?! Soooo THAT'S why there's fighter jets cruising at low altitude over my home!!! And here I thought we where under attack!

hmm.. maybe I should be at the airshow instead of indoors on my comp.. bah, who am i kidden!

[Thufir]

PashaDawg said:
Bah! The GREAT SPIDER LORD was but a oily blackhead on the divine tush of the wise and omniscient WISE ANCIENT KRACKAN KING of the OCEAN… (WAKKO for short).

Beware, the WISE ONE is swimming as we speak… biding his time… waiting for the right time to STRIKE the dry land and drag all of your mothers, fathers and children into the cold salty deep. Their doom is certain, and they shudder in their dreams with DISPAIR.




Hmmmm, I'm just not seeing it. I mean, a great spider lord, frothing at the mouth with venemous drool - now there's something to fear! Brings back images of Shelob and all that.

But cold, fishy, squiddies? That just doesn't do it for me. Guess we'll have to see those squiddies in action before we believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Thufir]

Oh, and Boron, while you're hanging out waiting for Esben's response, you might consider taking a turn in Pandemonium http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif We're just waiting on you and Jarenko right now, and hopefully we'll get Jarenko set to AI soon.

Speaking of which, would anyone reading this thread care to do a favor for those of us playing in the Pandemonium2 game? We just need someone to set Jarenko to AI, and we need it to be someone not playing in the game. It just takes a few minutes, and I can give you the necessary info by PM.

[Lex]

Thufir said:

PashaDawg said:
Bah! The GREAT SPIDER LORD was but a oily blackhead on the divine tush of the wise and omniscient WISE ANCIENT KRACKAN KING of the OCEAN… (WAKKO for short).

Beware, the WISE ONE is swimming as we speak… biding his time… waiting for the right time to STRIKE the dry land and drag all of your mothers, fathers and children into the cold salty deep. Their doom is certain, and they shudder in their dreams with DISPAIR.




Hmmmm, I'm just not seeing it. I mean, a great spider lord, frothing at the mouth with venemous drool - now there's something to fear! Brings back images of Shelob and all that.

But cold, fishy, squiddies? That just doesn't do it for me. Guess we'll have to see those squiddies in action before we believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



cold fishy squiddies? be afraid! be very afraid! http://www.ematerialstudios.com/stewie.gif

[Lex]

Thufir said:


Oh, and Boron, while you're hanging out waiting for Esben's response, you might consider taking a turn in Pandemonium http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif We're just waiting on you and Jarenko right now, and hopefully we'll get Jarenko set to AI soon.

Speaking of which, would anyone reading this thread care to do a favor for those of us playing in the Pandemonium2 game? We just need someone to set Jarenko to AI, and we need it to be someone not playing in the game. It just takes a few minutes, and I can give you the necessary info by PM.



I can help you out if you want

[The Panther]

I did it already.

[PashaDawg]

Thufir said:

PashaDawg said:
Bah! The GREAT SPIDER LORD was but a oily blackhead on the divine tush of the wise and omniscient WISE ANCIENT KRACKAN KING of the OCEAN… (WAKKO for short).

Beware, the WISE ONE is swimming as we speak… biding his time… waiting for the right time to STRIKE the dry land and drag all of your mothers, fathers and children into the cold salty deep. Their doom is certain, and they shudder in their dreams with DISPAIR.




Hmmmm, I'm just not seeing it. I mean, a great spider lord, frothing at the mouth with venemous drool - now there's something to fear! Brings back images of Shelob and all that.

But cold, fishy, squiddies? That just doesn't do it for me. Guess we'll have to see those squiddies in action before we believe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif <Ancient Evil Mind... slightly perturbed by such insolence... ancient thoughts flowing effortlessly in the WISE ONE's mind... patience my minions... patience... he shall see... they ALL shall see...> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Boron]

Ok an important anouncement :

Sorry for the inconvenience but i decided to restart . We are still at turn 1 and most ppl have probably not modified their pretender yet and it would be just bad to play without Lex as Caelum .

I am pretty sure that this time everything works finally as it should http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I wrote Lex a pm to try one Last workaround that might work and if this doesn't work we restart .
With good probability we restart in about 1 hour .

[Lex]

sweet! I was looking forward to playing Faerun!

[Boron]

Mose said there is no other way to fix it then making a new game too .

So i restarted . There is a figure of speech : Third time is a charm .

So this time hopefully finally everything is as it should be . Fortunately we probably get nothing then a few hours delay but Lex can play his pretender now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Lex]

yesssss.. now you shall all witness the result of my countless hours of lab tests to create the most superpowerful, genetically enhanced, secret government funded, killer pretender that will wipe out all heretics and rule the world!! MUUAHAHHAHHA http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

[Boron]

Lex said:
yesssss.. now you shall all witness the result of my countless hours of lab tests to create the most superpowerful, genetically enhanced, secret government funded, killer pretender that wipe out all heretics and rule the world!! MUUAHAHHAHHA http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif



Well i guess it is either a VQ or a Nataraja if you are so euphoric http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Lex]

Boron said:

Lex said:
yesssss.. now you shall all witness the result of my countless hours of lab tests to create the most superpowerful, genetically enhanced, secret government funded, killer pretender that wipe out all heretics and rule the world!! MUUAHAHHAHHA http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif



Well i guess it is either a VQ or a Nataraja if you are so euphoric http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



no.. i prefer the drama king.. eh, ghost king i mean http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Thufir]

To save the trouble of looking up the game on mosehansen, the new port # is:

2314

[Lex]

you still need to claim the race eventually on mosehansen though

[Grim Knight]

Uh sorry, I uploaded the wrong pretender to this game.

I accidentally uploaded Abysia, instead of Ulm, I will stay anonymous so you can kick the Abysia.

[Lex]

oh, i wrote this down earlier on to keep track of everyone in the game on this huge map.. might be useful to everyone


<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>RACE LAND PLAYER
Abysia Thay Cohen
Man Cormanthor Tauren
Caelum Sunset Mountains Lex
Ermor Anauroch Desert Boron
Pangaea The High Forest Puffyn
Vanheim THe Moonshae Isles FM_Surrigon
Jotunheim Damara DragonFire11
Rlyeh Sword Coast Msew
Mictlan Luiren Soapyfrog
Tien Chi The Endless Wastes Thufir
Arco Chessenta Tannath
Atlantis Sea of Lantan PashaDawg
Pythium The Shaar Huzurdaddi
Ulm Mirabar Grim Knight
Ctis Mulhorand Regen
Marignon Tethyr Ygorl
Machaka The Black Jungles Tyrant</pre><hr />

[Boron]

Grim Knight said:
Uh sorry, I uploaded the wrong pretender to this game.

I accidentally uploaded Abysia, instead of Ulm, I will stay anonymous so you can kick the Abysia.



np kicked your "accident" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[PashaDawg]

I have uploaded my God Pretender for the restart.

[msew]

okie I re upped my god :-) in the new game Version 3 retake part 5 the sequel

[Soapyfrog]

I'm uploaded and ready!

[Boron]

ok looks good about 10 ppl have already reuploaded .

if this time anything goes wrong though we don't restart anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Boron]

Vanheim has still to register on mosehansen it is atm anonymous . So FM_Surrigon register plz http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Man is currently acclaimed by BiteMe this is not your mosehansenaccount Tauren ?

Tyrant has still to upload his Machaka .
Tannath plz upload your Arcosnuffle god again .
Finally DragonFire11 has still to upload his Jotunheim pretender .

[PashaDawg]

I know that DragonFire11 has some important (good) stuff in real life going on through today. I have emailed him to let him know that he needs to upload his pretender again.

~Pasha

[Tannath]

The mighty God of Arcos is ready.
Let's crush some civilizations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Thufir]

We're just waiting on DragonFire11 and Tyrant - C'mon guys, where are ya?

[The_Tauren13]

BiteMe is indeed my Mosehansen account name. When i made it, I had no idea that it was so heavily tied in with this forum, and that I should have made the same SN for both.

[Boron]

FM_Surrigon please activate your pretender you are still listed as anonymous .

Dragonfire11 and Tyrant did you lose interest ? If yes plz post that i can announce the 2 nations as open again .

Finally Tauren is your Mosehansenaccount BiteMe or is this somebody else ?

[Thufir]

Boron said:
FM_Surrigon please activate your pretender you are still listed as anonymous .

Dragonfire11 and Tyrant did you lose interest ? If yes plz post that i can announce the 2 nations as open again .

Finally Tauren is your Mosehansenaccount BiteMe or is this somebody else ?



Tyrant is up now, we're just waiting on Dragonfire11.

[Tannath]

17 pretenders uploaded, but 2 are anonymous (Machaka and Vanheim).

[Tyrant]

I have reloaded, but i may have forgotten to claim my spot. I'll check and fix that if nessicary.

[Tyrant]

Ok, all set now, sorry for the delay.

[Thufir]

Tyrant said:
Ok, all set now, sorry for the delay.



Actually, we're just waiting on Boron, now. FM_Surrigon still needs claim his spot on mosehansen, but Boron can start the game before that occurs.

[Boron]

Thufir said:

Tyrant said:
Ok, all set now, sorry for the delay.



Actually, we're just waiting on Boron, now. FM_Surrigon still needs claim his spot on mosehansen, but Boron can start the game before that occurs.


ok good all have uploaded now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I wait a few more hours to give FM_Surrigon a Last chance to claim his spot if he doesn't i kick and offer the vanheim slot to the puplic .
And Tauren has not confirmed still that his Mosehansen-nickname is BiteMe .

[Thufir]

The_Tauren13 said:
BiteMe is indeed my Mosehansen account name. When i made it, I had no idea that it was so heavily tied in with this forum, and that I should have made the same SN for both.




Boron!!!! Start the game already!

Tauren did indeed confirm that BiteMe is his name, and while FM_Surrigon really does need to claim his spot, he can do that anytime - I really don't think that's worth holding up the game over.

[Boron]

Thufir said:

The_Tauren13 said:
BiteMe is indeed my Mosehansen account name. When i made it, I had no idea that it was so heavily tied in with this forum, and that I should have made the same SN for both.




Boron!!!! Start the game already!

Tauren did indeed confirm that BiteMe is his name, and while FM_Surrigon really does need to claim his spot, he can do that anytime - I really don't think that's worth holding up the game over.



I think he has lost interest .

09/04/04 08:51 PM : this was the Last date when FM_Surrignon posted . I sent him now a pm wait 2-3 hours if he shows not up then i kick and offer vanheim again on the board .

Or should i kick him immediately he hasn't posted since almost 4 DAYS !

[Boron]

Thufir said that FM_Surrignon is not very active on the board .
So i kicked him now because i hope he notices this more likely then the board and reads then the board .

So FM_Surrignon upload your pretender and claim it this time !
We are now only waiting for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Thufir]

Boron said:
Thufir said that FM_Surrignon is not very active on the board .
So i kicked him now because i hope he notices this more likely then the board and reads then the board .

So FM_Surrignon upload your pretender and claim it this time !
We are now only waiting for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



This is the worst of all possible worlds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

You could have started this game 16 hrs ago. Instead of that you've kicked FM_Surrigon who, as I told you, while not an active board participant, plays his turns reliably and rarely if ever is the Last one to submit. Now, if for example, he checked this game in the Last 4 hrs, it could (admittedly, worst case), be another 20 hrs before he checks again, and notices something is wrong.

If you want to do this, do it all the way, and re-open the position. It's not the choice I would've made, but you can justify it, since you did make it clear non-anonymous positions were not permitted. It also tells players that they must pay attention (occasionaly, at least) to the thread.

[Boron]

i am not happy with this too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

But i want to avoid that now the same happens again like what happened with Lex + Huzurdaddi .
It is not very likely but not that impossible too that someone else accidently uploaded his pretender to vanheim and then turned anonymous .

So rather 1 day waiting instead of getting the same "debacle" again . It was mainly my + Lex's impatience that lead to the restart .

Hopefully FM_Surrignon notices soon that he got kicked and fixes it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Hey Boron can you kick all anonymous please? I'll re-upload a pretender to make sure the right one is up there.

Noramlly I would just tough it out, but since we are waiting I might as well be sure.

I'll be going to for a couple of hours in a about 20 min so if you can do it before then I'll upload right away. If not, no biggie, I'll be back soon enough. I don't feel like working much today! LOL!

[Boron]

Kicked now Huzurdaddi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If the first fault with lex god wouldn't have happened the game would be running already .
But since we got a lot of delay already this time i rather have 1-2 days more delay and everything works as it should instead of being so impatient again .

If FM_Surrignon doesn't show up until tomorrow i offer Vanheim though for 1 day to the puplic and if nobody shows until then oh well then we start without vanheim .
Hopefully this doesn't happen though

[Huzurdaddi]

Okie dokie. I'm at "work" ( inside joke ) right now. I figure I'll be done in less than an hour and drive back home. Should be uploaded in by 3 PM PST.

[Stossel]

Alright, I'm in.

I forgot about confirming the second time around.

Was at school Last night, came home, didn't check the forums, and then woke up today and went to school.

[Huzurdaddi]

Ok I'm uploaded. I guess I was just being a nervous nelly. At least I hope I was.

Let's the this thing rolling!

[PashaDawg]

Yeeeehawww!! Let's SLAP that fanny on this horsy and get her a'gallopin! &lt;waving cowboy hat in the air&gt; http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Yip! Yip!

[The_Tauren13]

damn it i hope boron didnt go to bed already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Boron]

The_Tauren13 said:
damn it i hope boron didnt go to bed already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



I go now but luckily i checked the forum before doing so once more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You don't have to legitimate you FM_Surrignon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Luckily my "kick" to get your attention seemed to work or would you have checked the forum today anyways ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


I start now finally http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Thufir]

I just know there is a law against posting in the forum, while a turn 2 game is waiting on you. It's in the Dominions 2 by-laws. Really.

Yes, Boron, this game (and others) are waiting on you, as you pontificate on upon the merits of banelords vs. archangels. Just thought you should know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Boron]

Thufir said:


I just know there is a law against posting in the forum, while a turn 2 game is waiting on you. It's in the Dominions 2 by-laws. Really.

Yes, Boron, this game (and others) are waiting on you, as you pontificate on upon the merits of banelords vs. archangels. Just thought you should know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



Yeah it had to do something with the game at least http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
Cause i will perhaps use them later with my ermor they should fit the role as thugs probably even better than bane lords . At least this is my theory http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Did all my turns now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
When i checked today a few hours ago the only new turns were in my games on sheaps server http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

UHHHHHHH!!!! Just suffered a big defeat and lost most of my army!! At least the WISE ANCIENT KRAKEN KING of the OCEAN (WAKKO) did not die. I guess he will spend a few turns cracking the books while my army is rebuilt to its former IMPRESSIVE size.

I hope you're not nearby Boron. I don't need another lesson quite yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Don’t nobody else start thinkin’ this is a good time to mess with WAKKO, or you shall meet your doom earlier that originally planned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Boron]

PashaDawg said:
UHHHHHHH!!!! Just suffered a big defeat and lost most of my army!! At least the WISE ANCIENT KRAKEN KING of the OCEAN (WAKKO) did not die. I guess he will spend a few turns cracking the books while my army is rebuilt to its former IMPRESSIVE size.

I hope you're not nearby Boron. I don't need another lesson quite yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Don’t nobody else start thinkin’ this is a good time to mess with WAKKO, or you shall meet your doom earlier that originally planned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



I am far away Pasha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
You shouldn't have stated this though . Ryleh is near you so the Rylehplayer might think now it is a good time to try wiping you out earlygame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Oh and i play a very peaceloving nation this time . With ermor i am normally extremely passive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[PashaDawg]

Boron said:

PashaDawg said:
UHHHHHHH!!!! Just suffered a big defeat and lost most of my army!! At least the WISE ANCIENT KRAKEN KING of the OCEAN (WAKKO) did not die. I guess he will spend a few turns cracking the books while my army is rebuilt to its former IMPRESSIVE size.

I hope you're not nearby Boron. I don't need another lesson quite yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Don’t nobody else start thinkin’ this is a good time to mess with WAKKO, or you shall meet your doom earlier that originally planned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



I am far away Pasha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
You shouldn't have stated this though . Ryleh is near you so the Rylehplayer might think now it is a good time to try wiping you out earlygame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Oh and i play a very peaceloving nation this time . With ermor i am normally extremely passive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif




Oh goodie. An Atlantis army grows back quickly.

[Ygorl]

Well, I've just spotted your army offshore. Ahoy!
I think we'll get along swimmingly.
Get it? "Swimmingly"?
Anyway, for anybody who wants to send me communications with less lag than the game allows, I can be reached at dig4fire (with the domain) cox dot net.

[PashaDawg]

Arg! Aye Aye, Lord of the Marignon Inquisition. The WISE ANCIENT KRAKEN KING of the OCEAN sees you, too, and his long years of thought can foresee your minions’ future http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif if they should cause affront to the WISE ANCIENT KRAKEN KING by bathing in HIS warm, peace-loving waters. /threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Fish.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Fish.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Peace.gif Kindly keep your holier-than-thou inquesting on dry land. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ygorl]

The LORD OF HOLY FLAMES is more than happy to stay dry and leave the moist dark places to SPONGEY-SQUID.

[Thufir]

Well, I'm glad to see that noob of noobs (Cohen) has gotten through his learning curve so well. At turn 7, having 10 provinces, he's got more than twice the number of provinces of the number 2,3 and 4 players (each of us having 4 provinces). To think, I was worried that his 20+ previous MP games wouldn't be sufficient to keep up!

Ah well, so it goes...

[Cohen]

The mercenary army of Abysya isn't so reliable as our national troops, and many of the deserted at the firsts defeats, halting my expansion and leaving me with my tresaury depleted.

Our Alchemists hopefully brought some more shining gold into our coffins, but at the expensive cost of fiery ruby pregned of magical essence.

[Huzurdaddi]

The mercenary army of Abysya isn't so reliable as our national troops, and many of the deserted at the firsts defeats, halting my expansion and leaving me with my tresaury depleted.

Our Alchemists hopefully brought some more shining gold into our coffins, but at the expensive cost of fiery ruby pregned of magical essence.




R .. I ... G ... H ... T.

Sadly my build included no mercinaries for this game, but I *HAD* to buy one just to keep it from Cohen.

We're are probably all dead already just from this start. Great.

[Huzurdaddi]

The mercenary army of Abysya isn't so reliable as our national troops, and many of the deserted at the firsts defeats, halting my expansion and leaving me with my tresaury depleted.




Honestly if he gets the black fists I'll go nuts. I have *0* cash right now so I can't bid. But My dear god if he gets them I will go insane.

[PashaDawg]

I'd do what I could to protect you from insanity, but Atlantis cannot recruit them under water. Blub, blub, blub.

[Boron]

Well Cohen had to pay for the merchants so i guess he hasn't bought a mage every turn . He just was lucky getting the bids on the mercenaries but he paid surely for them with less research .
So no need to worry i think .

[Huzurdaddi]

Well Cohen had to pay for the merchants so i guess he hasn't bought a mage every turn . He just was lucky getting the bids on the mercenaries but he paid surely for them with less research .
So no need to worry i think .




Why let facts stand in your way while posting? The graphs tell the story. He is 3rd in research AND he playing abysia for god's sake. I feel ashamed.

[Cohen]

Probably because I set my pretender with a lot of magic to supply the lack of Abysyan research, Boron is right however, I'ven't bought a mage every turn.

And according to graphs I've lost some Merc companies, so I'm not so well settled, I've only a superior income that I hope could allow me to fill the gap that soon will show up in research.

[Boron]

Huzurdaddi said:
Why let facts stand in your way while posting? The graphs tell the story. He is 3rd in research AND he playing abysia for god's sake. I feel ashamed.



well scoregraphs are sometimes not good .
Now his armysize after his merchants are away is very low .

But if pangenea plays maenad hordes or ermor plays especially ashen empire it soon leads armysize graph . Ermor normally has an almostrainbow pretender so his gemincome on graphs is one of the biggest too .
Then ppl let blind them just by scoregraphs and forget that bloodincome is not shown , clamincome etc. is not shown too etc. etc.

Pythium looks quite powerful on scoregraphs at the moment too . But it is way to early to tell anything from scoregraphs .

Though Cohen has probably about 4-5 provinces more than pythium he doesn't get much more money and this will drop soon more when Cohen starts to bloodhunt .

Abysia is not easy to play because all his bloodhunters are capitol only . Anathemants are not good researchers and rather expensive .
Sure sooner or later Cohen will find sages but so do the other nations . Pythiums theurg / Caelums (Arch) seraph e.g. are not capitol only and good researchers + battlemages .

Cohen has to find the balance between bloodhunt , income and research which is not so easy .


Don't trust too much on the scoregraphs . If one nation has a lot more troops than others like ermor / pangenea this doesn't mean the nation is stronger .
If a nation has twice as many provinces but bad clamhoard / sitesearch abilities then it is probably not stronger but weaker than a smaller nation with more gem income .

[Boron]

new turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Lex]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Ermor,Jotun and TienChi are just jumping ahead with Gem Income.. those special provinces must have +5 or +6 gems per turn.. now i want one (or two or three!!!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Ermor,Jotun and TienChi are just jumping ahead with Gem Income




I doubt that they took a special. Well ... maybe, but they are hard to take. But I have to agree that those are impressive gains. My gosh.

I'm kind of wondering more about C'tis. What's going on? It looks like he has attempted twice to take some province next to him and failed both times. Yokies.

[Thufir]

Lex said:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Ermor,Jotun and TienChi are just jumping ahead with Gem Income.. those special provinces must have +5 or +6 gems per turn.. now i want one (or two or three!!!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



No specials for me, gem searching is just what TienChi is best at! And take my word for it, TienChi has plenty of other weaknesses to compensate for this one strength http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cohen]

True, Tien has mages with low but numberous paths.
Mmm ... the Abysyans generals could start thinking to plan the manchurian empire invasion to put those gems into their bags. Even because those manchurian are closing my expansion way on 2 sides.

[Huzurdaddi]

TienChi has plenty of other weaknesses to compensate for this one strength




You got that right! Nice mages from the capital but other than that wowzie!

[Boron]

Lex said:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Ermor,Jotun and TienChi are just jumping ahead with Gem Income.. those special provinces must have +5 or +6 gems per turn.. now i want one (or two or three!!!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif


It is my almost rainbowish pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . I guess he finds about 90% of the sites .

I wonder about jotunheim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . Does he have a rainbow pretender too or was he just damn lucky ?

[Stossel]

I'd like to let everyone know that Vanheim's islands are apparently the ghetto land of Faerun.

I might be forced to outfit my Vans at k-mart.

[PashaDawg]

FM_Surrigon said:
I'd like to let everyone know that Vanheim's islands are apparently the ghetto land of Faerun.

I might be forced to outfit my Vans at k-mart.



&lt;Long, complex thoughts working through the Ancient Kraken's mind... suddenly hearing the small whining Viking voice&gt;... Music to our ears. The fact that YOU and your VIKING SMEGMA are so far from shore disgusts the WISE ANCIENT KRAKEN KING of the OCEAN. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

I'd like to let everyone know that Vanheim's islands are apparently the ghetto land of Faerun.

I might be forced to outfit my Vans at k-mart.




I think most of the islands are planes on this map, a couple are mountain and maybe you will find some sites on those.

I *hate* the starting position for Vanhiem on this map. You can't use your awesome dwarves. And you have to sail all over the place.

On the plus side it is *really* hard to attack you. Well, unless you are R'lyeh or Atlantis ... which happen to both neighbor you.

On the plus side for you it looks like R'lyeh JUST took his 1st province. So that's a plus. On the down side it looks like he has quite a large army.

[Thufir]

Cohen said:
True, Tien has mages with low but numberous paths.
Mmm ... the Abysyans generals could start thinking to plan the manchurian empire invasion to put those gems into their bags. Even because those manchurian are closing my expansion way on 2 sides.



Lies!!! This is outrageous propaganda of the first rank - do not be swayed the bile that spews from the mouths of the Abysian PR Minister!

Instead, we suggest that everyone put their cards on the table, and you the nations of Faerun can judge for yourself who is blocking who, and who you should feel threatened by.

As all know, Abysia, T'ien Ch'i and the C'tis are all located near each other in the northeast corner of Faerun. To be specific, our capitals are at:

Abysia - 217
C'tis - 125
T'ien Ch'i - 272

Know that on turn 7, the Abysians took 302, capping any possible expansion we might have had to the northwest, and coming very close to our capital in the bargain. We then demanded that the Abysians stop their advance at that point, and they complied (but not without bellicose, but vague threats of a later invasion).

So, I guess the Abysian Minister of Dis-Information (maybe we shall call him Kim Jong-Il, or Baghdad Bob, henceforth), calls this "closing his expansion" well then I guess they mean that their intended expansion into our capital was closed.

Now, the second direction of closure to which Abysia no doubt refers is my recent move into 178 and 155. Well this does in fact block Abysia's expansion to the southeast - while opening my only hope of having any expansion after Abysia's rapid move towards my capital, and blocking my access to the northwest.

Any who have the resources to send scouts or to scry can check the truth of my words, and I encourage all to do so. The situation is currently that Abysia and T'ien Ch'i each block each other's advance in one direction. We regard this as an acceptable status quo, but we fear that the rapaciousness and greed of the Abysians make this situation unstable.

Tao Lan
Emperor of the Mists
Lord of T'ien Ch'i

[Boron]

New turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Huzurdaddi you made very nice progress too grats http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif .

[Huzurdaddi]

Huzurdaddi you made very nice progress too grats




Lies! All lies! Poor sad Pythium always the Last nation to expand, always the 1st nation to die ... woe is me!

Actually I have to say that I have planned just far to much to be sane in this game. Actually this turn was the 1st turn I have taken a risk. I hope it works out.

[Cohen]

The Abysyan generals blame themselves because they didn't exploited the month that the manchurian burocracy wasted before arming up some militia in every province, providing an officer to lead them.

One of our agents have been ordered to follow the manchurian shugenja that is inspecting the provinces to see what he find of interesting, meanwhile the map is studied ... to unleash the Abysyan army against the Manchurian and secure that border, or to conquer the poor defended counties and baronies still unclaimed by any major power, even if this sooner or later will bring our Nation among more enemies meanwhile the nobles ruling the provinces won't dare to challenge one big power.

[PashaDawg]

Oooooo ... sounds like danger's a'brewin'. Goodie.

[Soapyfrog]

Since we are still in the early stages I would like to request a restart so that we can get this game onto latest greatest 2.14 What do you think?

[Cohen]

For what I know we don't need to restart to swith to 2.14.

[Soapyfrog]

Esben says the game needs to be restarted, or it will continue to run under the Version it was Last started under (i.e. 2.12).

[Thufir]

Soapyfrog said:
Esben says the game needs to be restarted, or it will continue to run under the Version it was Last started under (i.e. 2.12).



Yes, that's correct - it does need to be restarted.

I would suggest restarting right after this upcoming turn hosts, but if everyone wants to do it immediately, I'm OK with that too.

[Boron]

Ok i just did my turn . 2 more ppl to go i will check every now and then for the next hours and restart when the new turn occurs then .

Didn't know that you have to restart http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Boron]

Ok i restarted now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
So just log in shortly to be sure that your orders work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

[PashaDawg]

Hey folks:

I am vacationing in Italy from Sept. 24 - Oct. 5, and Dragonfire has agreed to play my turns while I am away. However, he is also playing Jotunheim in this game (and I am playing Atlantis). He would not trade things between our dominions, and Atlantis and Jotunheim are not close to each other on this BIG map.

Do you guys have any objections to this?

Thanks.

PASHA

[Boron]

PashaDawg said:
Hey folks:

I am vacationing in Italy from Sept. 24 - Oct. 5, and Dragonfire has agreed to play my turns while I am away. However, he is also playing Jotunheim in this game (and I am playing Atlantis). He would not trade things between our dominions, and Atlantis and Jotunheim are not close to each other on this BIG map.

Do you guys have any objections to this?

Thanks.

PASHA



If you have no problem with this it is ok . Jotunheim is atm though doing very good so a noninvolved Sub i would prefer .

If you want we could pause the game until you are back from your holiday . There are a few days left until you go to holiday so what's the opinion of the others ? If you have one plz post in the next 1-2 days .

[Lex]

I'd prefer to keep going. No need to pause the game if Dragonfire is willing to sub for PashaDawg.

[The_Tauren13]

Lex said:
I'd prefer to keep going. No need to pause the game if Dragonfire is willing to sub for PashaDawg.



Agreed

[Cohen]

Ah so the Jotunians so near my flaming dominion are getting handled by a pro-tempore commander.


Personally I don't know what's better. Usually I'd advice to find a non involved player, but for what I know both Valinors (Dragonfire, but I know his as Valinors) and Pashadawg are trusted players.

[PashaDawg]

For what it is worth, Atlantis is WAY far away from Jotunheim. I don't even know where he is. Dragonfire would have to do some MAJOR miracles to make a real difference in the game.

It is just very convenient for Dragonfire to sub for me, because he and I know each other through a small series of 1 vs 1 email practice games (but we live over 1000 miles from each other).

But, if folks would prefer that I find a different sub, I will try, and I have a few folks in mind.

[PashaDawg]

Awwwwwwwww Shooooooot!

I decided to solicit non-playing substitutes. I want to avoid any appearance of impropriety.

We'll see if I catch any takers who feel they can manage in my shoes. /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

PASHA

[Boron]

The problem is i think if Dragonfire is winning the game then everybody will say he supported himself by atlantis gems / money while he was subbing for you too .
I believe that Dragonfire doesn't do this but it just feels better if a noninvolved player subs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

No takers yet on my post. We'll see what happens.

[Boron]

Yeah there are still a few days left until your holiday starts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
And i wouldn't mind pausing the game for you too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Then you don't have to waste a thought on your dominiongame during your holiday like my nation will be screwed when i come back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Lex]

strange. I just *lost* a big battle, yet the replay shows that I won it easily! Stupid patch is messing with my battle replays! I've upgraded the patch. I thought this server was updated too.

[Huzurdaddi]

Hey Cohen/Thufir I hope one of the two of you will write up how Abysia was able to dismember T'ien Ch'i so quickly.

That has to be the fastest war I haev ever seen at this stage of the game.

A few screen shots and a little AAR would be great for people trying to figure out how to do stuff like that.

Oh and PashaDawg I have no problem with Jotunheim taking over for a little bit.



strange. I just *lost* a big battle, yet the replay shows that I won it easily! Stupid patch is messing with my battle replays!




False horror spam actually failed? Impossible!!

[Lex]

Huzurdaddi said:
False horror spam actually failed? Impossible!!



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif I know! That's what I said!

Except I was attacking Cormyr. Still, my battle replay shows how I won (or could have won). Weird. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Cohen]

The Abysyan generals were planning since some months the invasion of the Manchurian empire.
In fact the chinese armies were blocking our expansion as planned, and our cumbersome and slow infantry will have spent so many months in forced marches to bring them is a good attaking position to overrun some duchies north-west of Abysyan homeland.

Scouts and infiltrators were sent to spy the enemy defences and army organization.
Meanwhile a fortified position was built in a chokepoint, to spy too the enemy moves in the standing valley.

But meanwhile the Abysyan military was preparing for war something new happened. The main army of Manchurian Empire was falling back pursued by an army composed of a lizard creatures lead by an huge wyrm.
The two big armies maneuvered for months giving time to Abysyans to launch a massive hunt for virgins and sacrifice them in order to bind hellish creatures to the fiery people. Sadly this choice brought away resources to our research and development team.

The confrontatio beetween the two stranger armies come at his end when the reptile army in an attempt to outflank the Manchurian one tried to make a bridge of ships using a small isle as intermediate column of support, chased by the Manchurians. But at the middle of their work the lizard spotted a fortification on the other side of the sea corner. And this fortification have an Abysya flag on his towers.

Closed beetween a neutral power as Abysya and the manchurian enemy, the lizards choosed not to have a double-front war and returned back from their bridge of ship, engaging battle with the Manchurian army awaiting for them.

There was a big clash, both sides suffered heavy casualties, and the Manchurian army was dispersed and routed.

This was the time that the Abysyan military warmachine started to move.
Our scouts have reported that the Manchurian officers had found many magical sites in their land, and that those lands are poorly defended by villagers and led by some burocrats.
Those provinces were easy prey for our hellspawned creatures that flied above the enemy fortress that held our main border, taking by surprise the poorly equipped manchurian garrison, meanwhile the abysyan infantry advanced through the valley and come to siege the borderline fortress.

Having dispatched a regiment for the provincial defence of the new borderline, our troops not seen by enemy, caught by surprise a Manchurian vanguard, meanwhile the chinese military answered advancing to menace our undefended northern borderline, forcing us to dispatch our flying forces there to prevent the fall of one of our holy temples of everburning fire ... but shall they come by time?
However a quick mustering of local militians has been already done.

[This AAR could provide some infos about Abysya, C'tis and Tien Chi ... something you can see by graphs, other no, but let's try to bring this game to a general AAR for fun, for everyone, if you agree with that]

[Boron]

Lex said:
strange. I just *lost* a big battle, yet the replay shows that I won it easily! Stupid patch is messing with my battle replays! I've upgraded the patch. I thought this server was updated too.


I restarted the server yesterday so it should be 2.14 ?
Well if anybody wants to check just put 2 clams on 1 scout and see if you get 1 or 2 astral pearls http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

I know! That's what I said!




They *have* to fix that spell. That's *ahem* why I wanted to play Caelum.

I feel like a putz using false horrors with Pythium though. When your casters are A5W5S6 at least I feel like a putz using false horrors.



There was a big clash, both sides suffered heavy casualties, and the Manchurian army was dispersed and routed.




So he attacked a special province? Damn that SUCKS. He really should have looked at what was in it before attacking. Well this will change the game ... somewhat drastically ...

God damn it.

[Cohen]

No, there was a fight beetween C'tis army, and Tien Chi one. With C'tis winning and Tien Chi losing his main army.
Probably I wasn't so clear.

[Huzurdaddi]

Well if anybody wants to check just put 2 clams on 1 scout and see if you get 1 or 2 astral pearls




While I have no clams, I am totally willing for someone to "lend" me two and I will perform the experiment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



With C'tis winning and Tien Chi losing his main army.




BUMMER for T'ien Ch'i. Well it's good for you but that means it's bad for us.

Oy.

[Thufir]

For those who are interested in my Version of the events, here's what happened, in my view. Abysia's astounding success was a combination of good tactics (if questionable strategy) on his part combined with unbelievable stupidity on mine (and forgive me if I don't give you the full rundown on all the tactical errors that I made http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif).


On turn 17, Abysia attacked T'ien Ch'i as follows:
238 - 1 Assasin vs. PD1
211 - 1 Demonbred, 1 Devil vs. PD1
193 - 1 Demonbred, 1 Devil vs. PD1
186 - 1 Demonbred, 2 Devils vs. PD1

If you look at the map, and note that 272 is my capital
and that 244 was still indy, you'll see what an excellent choice he made in which provinces to attack. I held 178, with a castle (which of course he did not attack until later). For all he had very light attacking forces, he knew or guessed that I had PD1 in all those provinces.

On turn 17, I was sitting on C'tis's capital (125), while Slurpy was sitting one province north, 155, leaving me no path of retreat back to my own empire. One of the biggest blunders I made was on the previous turn forgetting to make the payments to 2 key mercenary Groups. As such, on turn 17 I had an inadequate army left with the choice of staying in the C'tis capital, taking one more crack at Slurpy (assuming he moved back into the capital), or attacking 155, which could still easily leave me attacking Slurpy, perhaps with PD into the bargain. Anyhow, I chose to stay in the capital, and lost my main army, including my pretender, my prophet and two heroes. In retrospect, this was one of my many blunders. If I had attacked 155, at least I would have had a retreat path into 178, and maybe some of my key commanders and/or pretender would've survived.

From this point my prospects looked (and still do look) bleak, indeed. To everyone in the game, most especially Slurpy, I apologize for my sloppy play. Especially as the consequence is that this game looks altogether too much like a two way race between Abysia and Pythium (although at least it's not a one way race! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif). As if Abysia is not strong enough to begin with, giving her TC gem income into the bargain is hardly a good thing for the game, as a whole.

In my own defense I will say that my attack on C'tis if in poor judgement, was at least understandable in that C'tis had failed to take a single province at the time I committed to attack him. That gave me (I think) good reason to believe he was weak and could be taken out quite rapidly, and in a way that would leave me stronger to face the inevitable Abysian invasion (which I'll remind everyone - Abysia started making explicit threats on turn 7).

Anyhow, roughly speaking that's what happened. From this point, I'm not sure how many turns I've got left. At the least, I hope to force Abysia to use something more than the few paltry devils that he has to date. And I will do all that I can to counterattack, and if possible, take something significant back.

[Huzurdaddi]

looks altogether too much like a two way race between Abysia and Pythium




Well I have been in this position many times with Pythium .. heck almost every time I play them. I can assure you I am no threat to winning the game. Their early game is exceptionally strong.

Pythium's end game is so pathetic it's sad. No really. It's freakishly horrible. Now if I had blood or death OTOH ... well then we could talk.

And I had to pay the price of a combat pretender for where I am. Abysia had to pay ... nothing.



giving her TC gem income into the bargain is hardly a good thing for the game, as a whole.




Yep. Going to go swell. *sigh* this game is quite random at times. Sooner or later it will go random in my direction, I'm sure.

[Ygorl]

A newbie question: what's the point of having PD of 1?
A bit of wise advice: the game is certainly early enough that development with an eye towards resisting the infamous and inevitable Abysian hordes could make a big difference. It's a huge map, a lot can happen yet.

[Cohen]

Thurfir, an advice.
If you went to 155 and wanted to save army, didn't engage, enter the province, set your army all behind with retreat oder.
C'tis capitol will return to his owner due to castle inside.
So unless C'tis was coming into 178, you'd have all your army saved.
If C'tis however has gone in 178 you'll get wiped out even without fighting.

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

The use of 1 PD in every province. If you've 0 PD, you don't see the battle, and you know only the enemy has taken you the province.
With 1 PD that costs 1 gold only, you see the battle, you know at least the exact enemy army composition, and what items they've.
With 5-10 PD (costing respectively 15 and 55) you gain:
Some chances to resist to a single scout/assassin and perhaps the hawks. Some PD can hold wolves too like Ulm PD.
With 10 you gain some not pop killing patrol and better chances to resist hawks and wolves.

[Huzurdaddi]

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.




I've played Pythium a couple of times. I think ( but I could be mistaken ) that I know what I am talking about. Pythium's late game is crud. Sorry. It blows chunks.

Blood OTOH is solid in the end game.

Pythium's only shot for the end game is clams. Or somehow develop a blood economy and hope that as the blood SCs get poped that you can claim them.

Everyone talks about communion being great in the late game. It sucks. It is *super* in the early game. It crushes in the early game. In the late game the big armies are asking for a spell to wipe them out.

[Huzurdaddi]

kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.




Really? How about an AMA and a ring of tamed lighting? That sounds about right. That is all you need.

Please stop with the crud. You got handed a huge chunk of amazing lands. You have only 3 neighbors : T'ien Ch'i, C'tis and Jotunheim. T'ien Ch'i is dead, someone else killed all of his troops and now you have all of his lands. C'tis is simply not a factor. Jotunhiem took a long time to get started and I have no idea what kind of a factor he will be.

Of course we will play it out. But barring some kind of crazy accident it's pretty clear to me what will be the outcome is of this game.

[Thufir]

Cohen said:
Thurfir, an advice.
If you went to 155 and wanted to save army, didn't engage, enter the province, set your army all behind with retreat oder.
C'tis capitol will return to his owner due to castle inside.
So unless C'tis was coming into 178, you'd have all your army saved.
If C'tis however has gone in 178 you'll get wiped out even without fighting.

For Pythium being weak in late game, I'd laugh at you. Pythium is far stronger than Abysya, with communion you can cast a very wide range of massive killing spells of ANY kind. Pretty difficult to find the right resistances against Pyth even for SCs.

The use of 1 PD in every province. If you've 0 PD, you don't see the battle, and you know only the enemy has taken you the province.
With 1 PD that costs 1 gold only, you see the battle, you know at least the exact enemy army composition, and what items they've.
With 5-10 PD (costing respectively 15 and 55) you gain:
Some chances to resist to a single scout/assassin and perhaps the hawks. Some PD can hold wolves too like Ulm PD.
With 10 you gain some not pop killing patrol and better chances to resist hawks and wolves.



Said like a true veteran! Kudos, Cohen!

[Thufir]

Huzurdaddi said:
Well I have been in this position many times with Pythium .. heck almost every time I play them. I can assure you I am no threat to winning the game. Their early game is exceptionally strong.

Pythium's end game is so pathetic it's sad. No really. It's freakishly horrible. Now if I had blood or death OTOH ... well then we could talk.




I am sympathetic, as I have had the same thing happen to me the one time I played Pythium. That said, I am absolutely convinced it has an endgame. Sadly, I just don't know what that endgame is, and thus cannot advise. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I hope you are clamming right now. You're probably smarter than this, but one thing I didn't realise in my first game playing Pythium is that with water bracelet you can be clamming before turn 10. (I know this is stupid, but I was waiting for a 2W Arch Theurg, and then empowered when I didn't get one.)

It's possible that it takes a real expert to take advantage of Pythium's astral, but I do believe exploiting Pythium's astral strength is very important for the end game. Pythium is also in a better position than most nations to go for Wish. Another thing I'll mention (repeating various Posts I've read), is that Pythium's relatively early ability to afford and cast Acashic record may be one key to a winning endgame. So far in MP play, I have found most of my casting bonus sites via Acashic record, rather than searching, and these do potentially have a real impact on play.

These are just a couple of thoughts, I don't have enough experience to say if they have merit. But I do have a ton of experience playing various strategy games, and I have read a lot of Posts on this board, and I am absolutely convinced that Pythium has an endgame, and should not be regarded as early game (only) power.

Finally, as much as I have put the game into a bad spot by my untimely demise (driven, I admit, by poor judgement and sloppy play), there is still sufficient distributed power in this game to defeat Abysia, and as such, this game's end is not a forgone conclusion.

Edit:

Your own thread ( here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=275360&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1)) has lots of excellent advice on devil counters. You seemed pretty sceptical about archaeolept's advice, but that sounded to me like it was worth a shot. I think there is more to it then what he put in his Posts, but I do think that mages (possibly with communion) can be a part of anti-devil strategy, and that SCs and/or devils are not the only way to success in the endgame in Dom2.

[Thufir]

BTW, for the newbies in this game, if you are in a position where you must/want to fight Abysia, be prepared to fight devils. In my second MP game I was playing Pythium against Abysia, and had a strong upperhand for a good while until his Abysia's devil armies came into play. There's some excellent info on countering devils in a thread, started by Huzurdaddi( here (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=275360&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1)), although you should ignore the flamefest at the end.

[Huzurdaddi]

I hope you are clamming right now.




Nope not yet. I have not had the time to go for construction yet ( sacrilege! ). I've had to go for alteration ( for the SC and for body etherial ) and for evocation ( for the main armies ) and for thaumaturgy ( for uhm, soul slay ... just in case ).

Some day soon I hope I will be able to spare the cycles to go for construction, but I need conjuration ( Acashic record ) as well.

It will be some time before I can clam.



there is still sufficient distributed power in this game to defeat Abysia, and as such, this game's end is not a forgone conclusion.




Sadly in terms of geography he is set. While there is enough forces in the world to take him out ( hell I could do it right now and fricking would ... if I was anywhere near him ) there is nothing in his area. We'll just have to play it out.



fight Abysia, be prepared to fight devils




True enough. I would be more worried about SC's though. While Mictlain may get some of them I doubt he will get all of them. A properly equipped ID can take on as many normal devils as you can throw at it. And the SC's cost less total resources to make a fearsome fighting machine than soul contracts do.

Anyway you are right on with the thread you referenced it contains some good information on fighting devils.

[Thufir]

Huzurdaddi said:


fight Abysia, be prepared to fight devils



True enough. I would be more worried about SC's though. While Mictlain may get some of them I doubt he will get all of them. A properly equipped ID can take on as many normal devils as you can throw at it. And the SC's cost less total resources to make a fearsome fighting machine than soul contracts do.




I'm surprised to see your concern about Ice Devils (I assume ID=Ice Devil, right?). When playing Abysia, I skip Ice Devils and go right to Arch Devils. Doesn't summoning Ice Devils require getting a Warlock whose random is 1W, forging a water bracelet, then empowering a Warlock on top of that? And, then when you're done with that they still don't have fire immunity, and have a cold aura that certainly isn't compatible with your army. I would've guessed that it's smarter to let Mictlan have the Ice Devils, and make sure that you beat Mictlan to the punch in summoning Arch Devils.