Fools Lament II - Ended - Mictlan wins!!!

[deccan]

Hmm, server seems to be down?

[Yossar]

Down for me too.

I'm back now. And to Man: I have no idea what happened Last turn because I wasn't the one playing Last turn, but I think it should be obvious I didn't attack you on purpose.

[Soapyfrog]

Sorry there was a power failure Last night.

Server is returned to it's fully functioning status now.

[Soapyfrog]

Quickhost is temporarily off... will put it back on by tomorrow morning.

[Soapyfrog]

Ok we are back on quickhost...

[Yossar]

Is Nappa (Pangaea) still taking his turns? He's been the Last person the Last few turns and I haven't noticed if he's submitted his turns before the deadline or not.

[deccan]

He does seem to be moving armies around from what I can see.

[Soapyfrog]

I hope he is still in!!!

[Cainehill]

I was subbing for Nappa, and going slow so as not to take too many turns for him. There was a stale on Saturday or Sunday, as I thought he was returning Friday. But he's back, and definately still in.

[Yossar]

Ok, just making sure that Pangaea was still alive. Hard to tell when they always submit at the Last minute. (And I'm nowhere near them)

[Nappa]

Yep I'm back. But I'm also swamped at work and have a ton of personal commitments right now so it will be slow going for awhile.

I'm having way to much fun to go AI. Though I'm taking a beating my first game. I just hope I can stop staling turns considering I've now done it 4 times.

[rex_havok]

this is also my ist game and have been in a war since turn 10 with no letup. but what i am most interested in what works and what is a waste of time. after all is said and done would other people be willing to share info on what worked or not. it is difficult to see if a flames from afar worked or was a waste of gems. one thing for sure i really started this game wrong (as far a units and end results).

[Soapyfrog]

Well I have only been fighting Marignon and Ryleh. Ryleh was not too difficult to defeat though it required me essentially to suspend all serious operations vs Marignon.

Ryleh was however able to deal a blow to my bane lords early on with their mass-paralyze, but once I had broken up that mass of Ithilids they were less of a threat, and my celestial warriors could cope with them quite well in any case.

The bane lords in general have been quite effective. They are a cheap summons with good stats, and properly equipped can be quite fearsome (as marignon no doubt has felt). Also they are strong enough to resist the effects of purgatory pretty well.

Lastly of course, wrathful skies is the best army killing battelfield spell I have ever used. Just amazing the way it chews up troops. It does take some effort to cast, in terms of investing in equipment (winged helm, bag of air, staff of storms, ring of tamed lightning, shoes of flying, 4 gems for the casting, thats 70 gems of equipment and 4 egms per casting) but the carnage it wreaks is most gratifying...

[Nappa]

I also started out poorly. I should have figured beforehand how important research would be. That being said, CW is clearly going to significantly lag living nations in research since mages tend to be expensive which CW can't afford.

The truth is, I haven't learned what works as much as what doesn't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[deccan]

I should be dead soon. I currently have naps with TC, Pangaea and Man. I hereby release you from these naps so that you are free to grab as much territory from me as you can before Arco and Mictlan grabs it all. Thanks all.

[Nappa]

it's going to end quickly now.

[Yossar]

I started off really poorly. If Marignon had pressed me early, I probably would be dead now. Now, things are a bit different...

I'm a little surprised how many of the elemental kings I was able to get. Just a few turns ago I got the Last Air Queen (I only have one). I got construction early and didn't get high summoning until recently.

What's worked for me this game is summoning lots of devils (typical for Mictlan) and making good use of all the special sites this map has so many of. Right now I'm getting Fairy Queens and Wraith Lords for 20 gems, a 20 percent discount on forging (+hammer bonuses), and 30 percent cheaper blood units. And I'm getting a lot of blood units.

Ghost riders is one of the best spells in the game and I've been using that quite a bit recently. Enough of them can take out almost any army that doesn't have some powerful mages or SCs with a lot of reinvigoration.

[rex_havok]

"I started off really poorly. If Marignon had pressed me early, I probably would be dead now. Now, things are a bit different..."
does that me you will kill me Last http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

looks like we would need to stop fighting between each other and attack you, but not likely.
if i cann't win i prefer an ally.
BUT it is not over yet till the fat frog crocks.

[Soapyfrog]

Hey!! Who you callin' fat? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Yossar]

Well, Machaka did manage to kill an ice devil and an arch devil with mind duel by a level 1 astral mage. That was pretty lucky. But I still have 9 and those 2 are coming back next turn so it's not a huge loss I guess.

[deccan]

Yossar said:
Well, Machaka did manage to kill an ice devil and an arch devil with mind duel by a level 1 astral mage. That was pretty lucky. But I still have 9 and those 2 are coming back next turn so it's not a huge loss I guess.



I had about three or so astral sages doing that I think.

[Yossar]

deccan said:

Yossar said:
Well, Machaka did manage to kill an ice devil and an arch devil with mind duel by a level 1 astral mage. That was pretty lucky. But I still have 9 and those 2 are coming back next turn so it's not a huge loss I guess.



I had about three or so astral sages doing that I think.



Looks like 2. Didn't see that second one who died on the first turn. Still, it's pretty lucky that two Astral 1 mages won against a 3 and a 4.

[deccan]

Yossar said:
Looks like 2. Didn't see that second one who died on the first turn. Still, it's pretty lucky that two Astral 1 mages won against a 3 and a 4.



I'm not paying too much attention to the battles for obvious reasons. I wonder how many devils I blinded?

[Soapyfrog]

Solar Brilliance? Devils have pretty high MR so they tend not to be too affected by that.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Yossar said:
Well, Machaka did manage to kill an ice devil and an arch devil with mind duel by a level 1 astral mage. That was pretty lucky. But I still have 9 and those 2 are coming back next turn so it's not a huge loss I guess.


[Totally clueless]
...I have to ask this: How on earth did Mictlan end up with all the Arch Devils and Ice Devils? It should be nearly impossible to snag all the Ice Devils from under Jotunheim's greedy starting Skrattis and their blood site and Abysia should present a very decent competition for at least one or two Arch Devils even if most would go to Mictlan. I thought Jotunheim and Abysia were player-controlled? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
[/totally clueless]

EDIT: Or perhaps I underestimated Mictlan's bonus blood site for mass summoning the high level uniques or perhaps Jotunheim's player didn't know to go after Ice Devils ASAP?

[deccan]

Abysia is not player controlled, and Jotunheim is apparently controlled by a newbie who didn't know to go after the Ice Devils.

[baboune]

Someone can tell me how mind duel works? I tried it and my mage just went feeble minded..

[Soapyfrog]

Mind duel or mind hunt?

[baboune]

Mind hunt would be a start... I would like to understand both...

[Soapyfrog]

Mind Hunt: You cast it on a distant province, your mage casts mind burn or soul slay on a randomly selected, non-hidden commander. Spell is resisted as normal (i.e. base + penetration + d6oe vs target MR).

If there is an astral mage in the target province, then I think it is nearly guaranteed your mind hunting mage will be feebleminded... i.e. the astral mage detects your mind hunting mage's silver cord and severs it, resulting in feeblemind.

Mage Duel: Or Mind Duel? I forget. Basically you can cast this on the battlefield, a random astral mage on the other side is targetted, you do a contest of astral skill and the loser dies, both mages die in event of a tie (basically both sides roll d6 + astral).

[baboune]

So, you use communion to increase your skills then mind duel, right?

[Soapyfrog]

Er, possibly, to be honest I have never used either communion OR mind duel...

[deccan]

baboune said:
So, you use communion to increase your skills then mind duel, right?



You only want to use Mind Duel if you know there is an enemy astral mage you want to kill. In my case, sages are cheap, and a fully equipped Archdevil is expensive, so gambling on mind duel was a good deal.

It's astral skill + 1d6 for each, and both mages die if they get the same result.

I don't know if anyone specifically communions just for mind duel. Most likely, if they can communion, they probably have more destructive spells to cast.

[deccan]

Wow, I get to live another turn!!!

Here is a picture of Mictlan's invading army:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/310946-lament001.JPG

Notice how many blood uniques he had in that battle?

[deccan]

Here is my defending army:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/310949-lament002.JPG

[deccan]

And here are the battle results. I believe that the only Mictlan commander to have survived was Ethanim the Archdevil. I know I won't survive another beating, but there is ever a good time to gang up on Mictlan, this is probably it.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/310950-lament003.JPG

[Soapyfrog]

Holy CRAP!

[deccan]

Oh, and Jotunheim, if you're paying attention to this thread, you really ought to try summonning some of the ice devils I just killed.

[Yossar]

Yup, I underestimated Machaka and paid the price. Should have brought in a bigger army with more mages and/or just tried to preach Machaka to death. I'm not exactly sure on the effects of rigor mortis (some kind of fatigue loss every round) but I think that helped Machaka a lot. Those mechanical men are pretty tough too. I got a bunch lying around but didn't bring enough to that fight.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Any chance that interested readers can get that turn file (after the game) to see a most impressive battle?

[Soapyfrog]

Sure I'll save it.... heck I'll run the save game utiltity and save this and all future turns!

[deccan]

Peter Ebbesen said:
Any chance that interested readers can get that turn file (after the game) to see a most impressive battle?



Well, I can send you a copy of my turn file and my own password if you want.

I don't think it was all that impressive a battle, even though it was certainly the biggest one I've had since I started playing MP. It was mostly won through brute force instead of any cool spell scripting and all of Yossar's SCs had pretty standard equipment, no artefacts.

I wasn't sure what Rigor Mortis did either, but I scripted it in anyway just for fun. I think the main thing it did was that when the Archdevils got all fatigued out from casting spells, Rigor Mortis prevented them from regaining any fatigue through rest. This was why they were unconscious when the rest of the Mictlan army (with Ethanim) routed and made them an easy kill.

Yossar had scripted all of his frost fiends for artillery duty it looked like, and I think in the beginning they hurt him more than they hurt me because my front lines were composed of cold-immune wights and mechanical men. It looked to me that the bolts from the frost fiends killed quite a few of Yossar's own devils.

Two of the ice devils and one of the Arch Devils died from mech men swarm (though my pretender helped some). When that AD died for the first time and his phoenix pyre went off, it did A LOT of damage to me in a surprisingly large radius.

Gaap had a grand time killing fall bears by the dozen until my Standard of the Damned carrying firbolg got around to targeting him with repeated castings of drain life. Why oh why didn't I spend ALL my earth gems on mech men...

Most of my mages were pretty ineffective I think, casting the occasional nether darts, useless buff spells etc., and got killed fairly quickly. My pretender survived but got blinded by Ethanim repeatedly casting Blindness at him. My bane lords were totally useless and got killed by repeated castings of incinerate. It didn't help me that most of my stuff was kitted out with lighting immune stuff because I have been mostly fighting Arco before then with his Wrathful Skies crazy harbingers and Air Queen.

Yossar was right though that the mech men were surprisingly long-lived tanks. They were cheap for me too with my construction bonus site.

[Soapyfrog]

Mechanical men are TOO good. IMHO they could well deserve a nerf to 75% elemental resistances.

They just become the standard late game troop, since they really have no disadvantages except low MR, and given they are lifeless and mindless and usually used en masse, this is not a huge penalty!

[archaeolept]

astral fires will annhilate them.

S3F1: 10 AN damage; 4+ area of effect; 100 prec; MR negates

vs. 8 hp MR 12 (-1 for magic dominion, -2 for spell focus)

so, if Magoth, w/ astral coin and cap, spell focus (runesmasher too) had been scripted for Astral FiresX5 ...

hell, even the wights would be punched up bad

[deccan]

archaeolept said:
so, if Magoth, w/ astral coin and cap, spell focus (runesmasher too) had been scripted for Astral FiresX5 ...




Hehe. Magoth was not at that battle. He was killed in an earlier battle by Mind Duel.

But I wouldn't agree with Soapyfrog that Mech Men are too good. I suppose that they would get owned by other MR negates spells too like Opposition and what's the other one that enslaves magic beings.

I risk sounding like a broken record here, but one thing that would help make Mech Men not such an obvious choice as late game troop would be to let mages be able to boost selected resistances to 100% for normal troops albeit expensively in terms of gems and number of mages required.

In my experience 75% resistance just isn't enough. 75% SR won't be enough to protect against Wrathful Skies. 75% CR won't protect against chill and Breath of Winter. 75% FR won't protect against heat aura effects of Abysians and devils.

[Soapyfrog]

deccan said:
In my experience 75% resistance just isn't enough. 75% SR won't be enough to protect against Wrathful Skies. 75% CR won't protect against chill and Breath of Winter. 75% FR won't protect against heat aura effects of Abysians and devils.


Exactly, so they would not be "the obvious choice" all the time, instead you would have to mix and match your supporting troops correctly instead of mechanical men for all occasions.

Its thematic too, since one assume that fire hot enough, or cold cold enough, or sufficient wattage WOULD damage a mechanical being made of metal...

Of course mechanical men have counters, as mentioned, but they arent easy ones, and they sure arent enough to discourage everyone from fielding armies of them in the late game to support their battlefield spells.

[Yossar]

deccan said:Gaap had a grand time killing fall bears by the dozen until my Standard of the Damned carrying firbolg got around to targeting him with repeated castings of drain life. Why oh why didn't I spend ALL my earth gems on mech men...



Ah, I was wondering where that drain life kept coming from. You had a bunch of D4 casters but none of them were doing it (what were they doing if not drain life?).

And you're definitely right that I should have just had my frost fiends fly in at the beginning. Cold bolts were mostly useless.

My astral mage casting antimagic was mostly useless as well. I don't know if you used a resistable spell the whole battle. And I think I forgot battle fortune which would have helped a lot.

What spells are there that can hurt Groups of mechanical men? Astral fires, shadow bLast, nether darts, cloud of death (works on lifeless?), gifts from heaven, stellar cascades (sort of), and? Looks like I needed to bring a lot more astral and death mages. But then how many big battles are there that that isn't the case? A bunch of buffs for my devils would have helped too. Fire and Ice were pretty worthless (except for the somewhat bugged Phoenix Pyre (does physical instead of fire damage I think))

Mechanical men make some of the best fodder because they're cheap, immune to all elements, lifeless, high protection, 0 encumbrance, and non-undead. Take away any one of those things and they're not nearly as good.

[archaeolept]

also magma spells are good; ice strike; the rust spells; acid; entanglement

[deccan]

archaeolept said:
also magma spells are good; ice strike; the rust spells; acid; entanglement



Hey, it's not like he needs even more help! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And I just downloaded the new turn while forgetting to backup the old one first, so I lost the turn file with the battle. Oops.

[Soapyfrog]

Dont worry I saved the whole kit 'n kaboodle on the server end.

Also now I have Huz's dom2save prog running so all future turns will be saved as well.

[Yossar]

archaeolept said:
also magma spells are good; ice strike; the rust spells; acid; entanglement



Oh, I wasn't sure but I always assumed the magma spells were fire damage. Now I just need to find a strong fire/earth caster.

[Yossar]

And thanks to this thread it looks like everyone has an ice devil now.

[Soapyfrog]

Hey if it had been me I would have immediately posted about someone losing 9(?) uniques in one battle!

Anything to weaken ones opponent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Yossar]

Wow, I'm surprised all the arch devils were gone too. Apparently some people besides me have a whole lot of blood slaves.

[Soapyfrog]

I admit I had been hoarding blood to spend on mass blood summons when I eventually hit Blood 9... so really this has been a golden opportunity for me.

The reqs for ice devil summons are easy to reach when you have a bunch of CMs with blood, and reqs for arch devil is not much harder, and I had enough blood that I was willing to have a few summons fail and not be too upset about it.

Quite the windfall for me, and totally unexpected that no-one else seems to have capitalized on the situation to summon some of them! I thought I would get a few on the first round of summoning (2 ice and 1 archie), I thought for sure most would fail the 2nd turn of summoning (another 2 ice and 1 archie), and frankly, the 3rd turn I tried for an archie completely on a lark and, amazingly, I got it!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

So... mea cupla... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif the devils work for me now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Yossar]

At least Man didn't get them...
On that third turn I wished for two Archs and got neither. And you got one. Life is not fair http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Man is going bonkers! Look at all those bane lords... yikes! Took a page out of ermor's books looks like.

[baboune]

Are the Earth Kings any good?

[Soapyfrog]

Well earth magic is always handy to have... so I would say yes... hmm worth 50 earth gems exactly? Hard to say. I dont think they make great SCs but of course they can cast some pretty heavy spells in combat.

[deccan]

Incidentally, this is something strange that I meant to ask but kept forgetting. I started with a special firbolg, "The Lost One". Very early in the game, he got diseased moving through one of the disease-ridden sites next to C'tis, and now he's got all sorts of afflictions, but his hit points never actually go down and he doesn't die. I don't understand what's happening.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/311979-firbolg.JPG

[Peter Ebbesen]

deccan said:
Incidentally, this is something strange that I meant to ask but kept forgetting. I started with a special firbolg, "The Lost One". Very early in the game, he got diseased moving through one of the disease-ridden sites next to C'tis, and now he's got all sorts of afflictions, but his hit points never actually go down and he doesn't die. I don't understand what's happening.


Which Heroic Ability does the Lost One have?

[deccan]

He has Lightning Reflexes.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Sounds like something for the bug report thread, then.

[Yossar]

Well, Machaka's dead. Still took heavy troop losses but did much better this time. Looks like pretty much the whole world is about to go to war. Should be interesting.

And while I was fighting Machaka, Man managed to pull ahead of me to be the most powerful nation in the world. But for how long?... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[deccan]

Ahh, I'm dead. Good game everyone. Bye-bye.

[Soapyfrog]

Deccan can you log in and end your turn? The server is waiting to give you your death message http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Well fought sir!

[Yossar]

Ya, you did well. I thought for sure I had you when I first attacked your capitol, but then you annihilated me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Got you back in the end though.

[deccan]

Soapyfrog said:
Deccan can you log in and end your turn? The server is waiting to give you your death message http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif




Heh? I thought I already finished my turn. Sorry about that.

I must admit that I was completely unprepared for this game, and never felt much affinity for playing Machaka. But I had lots of fun fighting some big battles. Good luck everyone!

[baboune]

I would need a slowdown of the game for the next few days, a move to a 72 hours instead of 48 would be good... Do u all agree?

[Yossar]

I think the game is just about over (Man or Mictlan should have the requisite number of victory points within the next few turns) but I don't really care if you want to slow down.

Also, is server down for anyone else? It was up half an hour ago.

[rex_havok]

when will the server be up?

[Soapyfrog]

Hmm I didnt notice anything specifically wrong this morning though I did not try to login... I will only be able to check on it when I get home this evening, around 5pm EST.

As for Mictlan winning, well, I am sure with some effort we can stymie him, fellas!! It ain't over til its over!

[Yossar]

I think Man is still in it too. Actually, I think Man has a much better chance of winning. Everyone attack Man!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Server had Nagot Gick Fel'd.

It's restarted and since it appears everyone has done their turn I am going to forcehost, and then put it to 72 hours quickhost for the time being.

Everyone, congratulate baboune for he is now the proud father of a brand new baby girl! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[baboune]

Thanks.

Everyone is back home. You can set back the timer to 48h.

[Nappa]

I'm about to head out of town and won't be back until Sunday night. Can we extend this turn please until Sunday?

[Soapyfrog]

No problems here, anyone else object?

[Nappa]

Thanks all

[Soapyfrog]

Oops I poked the beehive with a stick, and now all kinds of Mictlan coloured bees are coming swarming out.

Thats a LOT of ghost rider castings. I think I counted at least 10 against me this turn alone. Someone is crying though since all those deadites killed a grand total of one celestial warrior.

Who knew the game could be THIS fun after turn 75? Mictlan does seem to be closing in on victory though...

[Yossar]

I've got a site with a conjuration bonus of 50, so really, the only limit is the number of wraith lords/lamia queens and skull staffs I have. 3 gems per casting is really cheap. At the moment it looks like I can cast it 14 times per turn.

It is too bad that they barely scratched you, though. I'm also extremely surprised that you moved off of R'yleh. I was really looking forward to that battle. Celestial Warriors and 3 Sea Kings vs. Mechanical men and 3 Water Queens. Would have been close, I think.

I think I only need one more capitol so the game should be over soon. Nobody is in position to take one away from me right now and I think I can bring enough firepower to protect one or two if they try to.

Almost everyone in the world is at war with me (all but Marignon and Pangaea) but I think (hope) that it's too little, too late. But it's still a bit too early to proclaim victory.

[Soapyfrog]

Still, 30 death gems is a big investment to kill essentially nothing.

I moved off Ryleh becuase I did not think I could beat the water queens... need some specific equipment to do that!

[anatoli11]

Parting thoughts...

I thought this was a pretty good game!!!

Kudos to Mictain on the win!!! You managed to keep out of the fighting until it really mattered and built some really good armies.

The ghost riders did me in - I had a shot at winning about 4 or 5 turns ago, but the ghost riders broke the two seiges I had going and a big loss to Tien Che (good battle!) at the Caelum capital ended my chances. I think I did reasonably well in the early and middle game, but I still have a lot of work to do on my end game.

I thought the magic was a little high in this game - at one point I was pulling almost 80 death gems a turn and I would guess almost 400 a turn in total (and Mictain was pulling even more!). I guess I could have spent them wiser, but I really liked the packs of 30+ flying Bane Lord packs I made, but they were not well equiped enough to make them unbeatable.

Thanks to all for an enjoyable game!

[Soapyfrog]

Surely you arent out? Seems like you still have some clout, judging by the graphs. Edit: oh ah, I guess Mictlan got the 7th capital...

It is a high magic game for sure!! However without gem-generators you have to be a little more clever about how you use your resources, IMHO this tends to lead to a wider range of summons/equipment loadouts/spell tactics.

[Yossar]

Good game, everyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I hope anatoli learned the importance of castles in the late game. It's just too hard to protect your provinces from ghost riders without them.

That Last battle at Man's capitol was fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I don't know if it was just Man casting spells at it or other people joined in, but I got hit with everything. 10 ghost riders, a murdering winter or two, and about 4 flames from the skies/fires from afar. Killed almost all my ghosts and vine ogres before the battle even started.

I was very fortunate that nobody really attacked me until the end, when I was obviously the most powerful nation in the world. I never had to fight more than one nation at a time until a few turns ago.

Well, it's been fun.

[rex_havok]

for a true(1st game) newbe, never played marignon and a new map, i think i did very well. held pan off and to a significantly lesser extent tienchi(he never really attack me) but in constant multi. wars from very early on left me very poor shape for the end game.
i learned a lot and thanks everyone for the game.
i was dissipointed that (not to be named) was not Banned for his conduct.
i guess castle spamming is the way to go. should have would have next game.

well, its been fun expecially in early and late game.
thanks to all and to all byebye.

[Nappa]

Grats Yossar, well done. Boy did I learn a ton! I love the innate anti SC capability of CW. However, I have to figure out how to research with them at a much better pace. And I'm way to defensive. I had a bLast, thanks everyone.


Lets start another game up. Same map?

[baboune]

gg. I still have so much to learn.

I would be ready for a new game.

[anatoli11]

Peter Ebbesen: please post after you have looked over the game files - I'm interested to hear your comments on the game.

Other Players: Thanks for sharing a bit of a wrap-up - we invest a couple of months in each of these games and its interesting to hear your perspectives!

[Soapyfrog]

Ok the full turn files for the Last 14 turns (turns 65-79) have been posted at the game page:

www.soapyfrog.net/dom2/foolslament2.htm (http://www.soapyfrog.net/dom2/foolslament2.htm)

The replays include that turns full set of orders for each nation since the save game utiltity kicks in everytime a file is modified, so it should be quite interesting to look at.

[deccan]

Congratulations on the win Yossar. I'll look into the savegame files for sure when I have the time.

[Cainehill]

Nappa said:
Grats Yossar, well done. Boy did I learn a ton! I love the innate anti SC capability of CW. However, I have to figure out how to research with them at a much better pace.



Heh. Research definately isn't easy as CW, but it's easier than, say, base Vanheim. You just have to be more creative about research.... ( Wouldn't it be _nice_ if it was like the original Moo and MoM, where conquering a city might give you some of their tech / magic? )

[rex_havok]

do you need the master password to examine the turn files?

[Yossar]

Hmm, I just looked at the 2nd to Last turn and it's pretty interesting. I'm really glad I didn't have to fight Tien Chi. That's a lot of Devils and Tartarians.

Everyone did a really good job of spending their gems. I think I was the only one with huge stockpiles. It's just really hard to spend large quantities of fire and water gems.

It's too bad that Ticky Pokey didn't show up for the final battle at Man. I guess I could have sent my ghost king in as well.

[Soapyfrog]

Yeah I made a SERIOUS strategic blunder in the Last couple of turns. I should have immediately moved to counter Mictlan's control of one or more of the capitals he held... probably Man or Matchaka. That devil/tartarian army I am quite certain would have held just about anything that could be thrown at it in check.

That and I should have prepared better for the adventure under the sea... I mean, I KNEW there were water queens there I should have brought the tools to deal with them, instead of retreating in ignominy.

Oh well... I was stuck in a "long-term planning" strategy and couldn't snap out of it fast enough to deal with the fact that armageddon had already arrived!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

rex_havok: yes you need the master password to check out any nation other than your own (assuming they had passwords set).

[Nappa]

Yossar what did you use to defeat Mans large vine ogre/Bane lord armies?

At one point in the game I had most of the game covered with spies. But by late mid game they had all but one been found and I was basically blind. Do you continue to send out spies so you can see what is going on? Is there another way?

[Soapyfrog]

I fought and destroyed some large Man armies with my devil/tartarian squad... on two successive turns I destroyed one army consisting of living statues and vine ogres, and then on the following turn defeated an army of some 50+ bane lords, angels, and other commanders.

These battles occured around turn 72 or 73 I think?

The bane lords were not well equipped, so wrathful skies and my well equipped devils cut a swath through them, I think perhaps 12 or 15 of them escaped that battle, to be mopped up slowly over the next few turns. The most dangerous things for me in that battle were the angels, which accounted for two fully equipped ice devils before going down. Flambeaus kill devils dead!!

Coincidently a fire destroyed the lab in the province where my devil summoners were, and I could not re-summon the ice devils for a turn... imagine my relief when I re-summoned them on the following turn and they answered!

[anatoli11]

The Bane Lord vs devil/tartarian squad battle, IMO, really only worked well for you because of the storm that grounded my flying Bane Lords (and I started them from the back...) - Half of them did not get into battle at all before they all routed...

I think it would have gone in my favor if not for the storm, as I would 5-7 Bane Lords per devil/tartarian.

I think I had 55 total leaders, of which 42 perished foolishly!

[Soapyfrog]

Well I am not sure it would have gone so well for you. With the wrathful skies doing constant damage, I think my SCs (which had good prot and excellent defence stats) would have held their own. Of course, with the turn archives available, one can always test that theory! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Yossar]

Nappa said:
Yossar what did you use to defeat Mans large vine ogre/Bane lord armies?



I think I had two tactics for that. If the bane lords were alone, a whole bunch of ghost riders will kill a couple and then they'll all rout. I don't know if I ever managed it (I tried), but if you can capture all the neighboring provinces with ghost riders/call of the winds then the routing bane lords all die.

Otherwise, any decent lightning-immune army (I used a bunch of mechanical men) with a staff of storms, wrathful skies, and a few support mages casting evocations could handle bane lords and vine ogres. You really don't even need to be immune to lightning if you have a good amount of mages bLasting them.

I also had my own squad of bane lords with herald lances to counter enemy bane lords, but never got to use them.

[Soapyfrog]

The ghost riders dont work against the flying bane lord masses... the bane lords fly into melee and at that point the ghost riders will rarely get damaging hits on them. I did actually cast 3 ghost riders at a group of perhaps 24 bane lords, and they failed to kill any.

[Jarkko]

An awesome game you seem to have had! Downloaded the turnfiles and unzipped them. Now could somebody give me a hint on how I can check the turns to see the battles? Thank's in advance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Unzip them into a new directory in your dom2 folder... then start dom2 and go to "play existing game". The game should appear on the list with the name of the folder you put it in.

[Jarkko]

For some reason I don't get to choose a nation from the list (I get the "Select nation" with only Exit as only choice). If I set up a MP server with the save I can then join the game, but get the you-don't-have-a-pretender-for-this-nation -message. Obviously I am doing something wrong, but as I am too stupid to figure out what, I would like to have some more hints http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Should I possibly have some other file first available, or a mod or something?

[Soapyfrog]

Each "turn" is a seperate game, does that help? You should be able to put all the files from one turn in one directory in your dom2 folder, and then play that game...

Anyone else having problems?

[Yossar]

The first turn on the website is missing the fatherland file and a few turns. I know the Last two turns work so try those.

[Yossar]

Soapyfrog said:
The ghost riders dont work against the flying bane lord masses... the bane lords fly into melee and at that point the ghost riders will rarely get damaging hits on them. I did actually cast 3 ghost riders at a group of perhaps 24 bane lords, and they failed to kill any.



You just need to use more. 3 wouldn't be nearly enough. Sometimes it does take a while to kill one. Without a magic bonus site, it's probably an inefficient spell to use against mass bane lords, though. Unless you're pretty sure you can capture all the neighboring provinces and kill them when they rout. Otherwise you'll just kill one or two and they all rout. 30+ death gems probably isn't worth it to kill one bane lord with at most 40 gems worth of equipment.

Edit: Something else that works well is teleporting in a bunch of mages with water boots, ring of tamed lightning, and 1 staff of storms, then spamming false horrors, air elementals, and soul slay/enslave mind. I got about 4 bane lords in one fight. They lose their commander status but they're still decent troops.

[Jarkko]

Thank's, that worked. Too bad I didn't get to see the massive battle between Mictlan and Machaka, I would really have wanted to see that too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Yossar]

That was in turn 65. Wonder why that zip file doesn't contain all the necessary files? Any idea Soapyfrog?

[Soapyfrog]

Does it not? It should! I'll check on it...

[Soapyfrog]

Alright I fixed it. That was the turn I started the savegame utiltity, and I actually saved most of the game files manually in a different location so they didnt make it into the archive.

Turn65 is re-uploaded, and should now work properly.

[Jarkko]

Soapyfrog said:
Turn65 is re-uploaded, and should now work properly.


Once I get home from work I'll certainly take a look at it then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Peter Ebbesen]

Took a look at some of the late turns.. A few comments...

Golems dualwielding swords of swiftness and wearing Hydra Armour... Why? Being lifeless, they do not get regeneration, and with their already low attack stat dualwielding long swords brings their attack value to 5. That is hardly value for money. They would have been better off trampling (boots of the behemoth or Stymphlian armour)

Tartarians BLOODHUNTING? Why? With T'ien Ch'i's many Tartarians, they should be battering down the gates of the opponents home castles instead.

With so many people liking Vine Ogres and with Ivy Kings fairly cheap to get, why (excepting T'ien C'hi) so few Ivy Kings?

I will from now on respect Celestial Soldiers with an N9 blessing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Seing some of them have 4 experience stars was a bit of an eyeopener as regards their longevity.

Many important provinces with 10-40 mages in were protected by 0 or 1 domes - didn't other people hit those research and forging centres with artillery spells - or is it exactly because they did get hit and wardings went down that so few domes appear when looking at the save file? I would have expected, as the very least, a Dome of Arcane Warding over every important castle with a high concentration of fragile mages.

...Anyhow, looks like you had a good game. Did anybody feel that other factions were particularly overpowered, or how did that aspect work out?

[Soapyfrog]

Peter Ebbesen said:
Tartarians BLOODHUNTING? Why? With T'ien Ch'i's many Tartarians, they should be battering down the gates of the opponents home castles instead.


They were waiting for their equipment to be forged, bloodhunting seemed like a good use of their time (the 5B tartarian was doing some forging as well).

I am perhaps over obesesive about equipping my commanders as well as possible...



Peter Ebbesen said:
I will from now on respect Celestial Soldiers with an N9 blessing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Seing some of them have 4 experience stars was a bit of an eyeopener as regards their longevity.


Oh yes they were truly excellent. I lost less than 10 all game I am quite sure. I probably should have been making more of them too, but I always worry about making investments in expensive troops once the game really goes over to ritual/battlefield magic and SCs. The Sea Kings with hydra armour and rings of regen really rocked as well... excellent stats, and 18hp/turn regen!


Peter Ebbesen said:
I would have expected, as the very least, a Dome of Arcane Warding over every important castle with a high concentration of fragile mages.


I have to admit I am quite reactive when it comes to domes... and really thats very bad esp. playing Tien Chi when flames from the sky can really ruin your caster's day. However, no one ever targetted my mage concentrations so it worked out ok in the end http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Peter Ebbesen said:
...Anyhow, looks like you had a good game. Did anybody feel that other factions were particularly overpowered, or how did that aspect work out?


It seemed good to me. Certainly one of the more fun games I have played in a long time... was actually very sad to see it end! I daresay I will run another game using this scenario in the near future, probably along with the balance mod I am using for the Faerun Mod Test game.

[Nappa]

At one time I had 4 domes over my main 3 territories and 1-2 domes over most other castle spaces. For awhile I was getting hit with a ton of artillery spells as shown by the few domes still up.

On that note, one of my favorite moments of that game after getting hit turn after turn after turn with wind ride and that summon earth elemental spell was to cast wind ride of my own and see his arch druid show up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Also, one thing to remember is that this was a noob game. I know that there was at least one other person other than myself that this was their first MP game. Most of the players had been in 1-3 games before with Yossar being the exception I believe.