Fools Lament II - Ended - Mictlan wins!!!

[Soapyfrog]

Server information can be found here:
http://www.soapyfrog.net/dom2

Server is up and running you can upload pretenders anytime.

I will be starting an MP game using the Peter Ebbesen modded Wars of Orania "Nasty Edition" map. The server will be running the v2.14 patch.

Current players:
Acrosephele - Baboune
Tien Chi - Soapyfrog
Ermor - Huzurdaddi
Man - Anatoli11
Pangea - Nappa
Jotunheim - Bluebird
Ctis - daesthai
Matchaka - deccan
Ulm - Cedric
Marignon - rex_havok
Mictlan - Yossar

The following house rules will be in effect:

The following items are outlawed:

Clams
Fever Fetishes
Blood Stones
Soul Contracts
The following restrictions will be in effect:

Vampire Lords may not Summon Allies
Caelum may not be used
Watchtowers and Mausoleums will not be allowed
Site Frequency: 75
Research: Difficult
Victory: 1st to hold 7 capitals
HoF: 15
Events: common
Renaming: on
Master Password: on

Any interest? Watch this spot for server/port info.

[archaeolept]

while the items can be discovered, so any cheating would run the real risk of eventual discovery, anyone using vampire lords could just claim to be summoning vampires independently.

what is the modded nature of the map? i can't recall off hand.

i'm glad to see the "no caelum, watchtowers, or mausoleums" meme going strong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cohen]

I think you should allow a limited number of Blood Stones, since they give +1 E, that could be needed for some races, like Abysya ...
The Abysyan Warlock with random E can forge the Stone, then the E.Boots and so he can forge a Dwarven Hammer ...

This is only an example.
Even more these rules will cripple all Blood Nations, removing them some of the best items/strategies, and giving to other Nations the advantage of 75% magic site frequency.

[Soapyfrog]

I thought about that and then I thought... why? There is no reason really... Earth boots and empowerment (or staff of elemental mastery) should be fine.

Having limited blood stones as opposed to none is an unneccessary complication.

[Soapyfrog]

As for Blood nations I am not sympathetic.

Frankly I would gladly play Abysia under these rules. Even without contracts Blood Nations have some of the best summons going, and they have excellent national troops which will be much more relevant in a game like this (hopefully).

Also Abysia does use gems for a lot of stuff too (forging and summons) so its not like other nations have some kind of advantage if there are more magic sites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Soapyfrog]

archaeolept said:
what is the modded nature of the map? I can't recall off hand.


From the readme:

"It is played on the Orania map that is included with the official release with a province setup that is identical to the Orania War scenario. The major change in the "Nasty Edition" is that every side starts with several powerful sites, units, or leaders, and that independents are set to strength 9. Victory goes to the nation that first occupies seven capitals including his own. Tread carefully."

[archaeolept]

ahh, its the nasty edition then. why didn't you just say so? :p

I would agree w/ cohen in this case though, that blood stones are extremely important to abysia and mictlan in order to get earth going, though i agree that any limited rule would be a pain.

[Cohen]

I believe this map could really screw up the game.

If someone checks the release note, all sites and stuff could be seen.
Here Abysya ie starts with Steel Ovens, + 40 resources and 20% const bonus.

Atlantis starts with "The Water Solstice" that gives 50 bonus in Enchantment.

Ulm starts with the Ancient Forge ... mmm hammer, + smith, + forge = 70% forge bonus (but it's only Ulm Smith limited)

These are only some of the stuff that could really change the way of gaming, however now I shut up because this is your game, and you can set it up as you prefer.

[Soapyfrog]

Well I'd prefer new-er players, but anyone is welcome. Arco is already claimed however... (doh). There are 4 players from the previous Fools game who get first dibs. I'll post when they've all picked.

[anatoli11]

I'd like to try Man

[Cohen]

You answered meanwhile I was editing.
I withdraw from this game for the reason of above.
I hope to play with you in other games.

[archaeolept]

i always think that the nasty edition should create a hilarious game. I only wish i wasn't currently overcommitted.

hey soapyfrog, you might want to list which nations are already taken http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Cohen said:
These are only some of the stuff that could really change the way of gaming


For sure, it will be a radical and hopefully very fun game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[daesthai]

What kind of time element is expected for turns? I'm interested, but want to make sure it's a schedule I could adhere to so people aren't waiting on me. =)

[Lepakko]

Post deleted by Lepakko

[Soapyfrog]

I'd like to do 24 hour quickhost, but of course I am flexible.

[Soapyfrog]

First post edited to show the current list of players.

Server information should appear soon.

[archaeolept]

contrary to cohen, i think nasty edition should be a hoot. But, having played games to their bitter end on orania, I really would suggest having some sort of victory condition.

I know people think there's something epic about playing the game to the bitter end w/ only one player left, but really it ends up being epically painful...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

and I still wish I could join. ah well, good luck all.

edit: hey, I noticed that Ulm starts w/ massive resources. you could even try and pursue an iron faith bless strat :O

[Soapyfrog]

I believe the victory condition is hard coded at 7 capitals... I am not sure. I think as long as we get 10 or so players that should make for a fun game!

[Huzurdaddi]

Ok going in for Ermor. Ha! What an INSANE map. I mean totally crazy.

[Soapyfrog]

Server information can now be found linked to the first post. Everyone who got first dibs is listed in the first post, so anyone interested can start claiming the other powers.

[Soapyfrog]

Not much interest in Wars of Orania Nasty Edition? c'mon it will be a good old fashioned dust up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Nappa]

I'll try with Pangaea.

[Huzurdaddi]

I'll try with Pangaea.




Got to love Pangea on this map. It's gem income is almost as single minded as that of Ermor +20 nature gems and almost nothing else ( a little water and a little earth!).

Woot go vine men/vine ogres. And they start with a treelord. Hmm wonder what he will be doing ALL GAME?

Oh I just noticed you and I are neighbors! Welcome!

[Bluebird]

Ok ... here I am: an absolute NEWBIE, but I still would like to try my luck playing ... ;-)

I will go with Jotunheim: They look rather "NEWBIE"-friendly.

[deccan]

How many players do you intend to have?

P.S. Are you sure you don't want to ban "wish" as well? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Else I may be tempted to take Pythium.

[Soapyfrog]

I love to have a full house, but failing that having 10-12 and filling in the rest with AI seems like it would work out OK.

I dont want to ban wish... it is still very difficult to get a caster into position to cast wish.

Still if you think it is too powerful, join as Pythium and show us! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[daesthai]

Another newbie here - currently playing in nagot's assasination game, and that was my first MP game out "in the real world" so to speak.

I'll give C'tis a shot.

I'll also reread the section on playing via server. I've only done PBEM before. =)

[archaeolept]

playing a quickhost game on a server is so unbelievably simple you'll never look back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[daesthai]

Since the game hasn't started yet, will it still be running in 2.13? or will we need to go ahead grab the new patch?

[Soapyfrog]

Will probably use 2.14 barring any crazy unforseen problems.

[Soapyfrog]

Any more takers?

If we dont get much more of a response I am going to fill in the rest with Hard AI. Otherwise their lands are just empty... and those lands are quite valuable!!!

[Bluebird]

Why hard AI ... I am a newbie and already have problems with Easy AI. I know that I will get beaten, but please not by a computer player ...

[Soapyfrog]

hmm.. ok I thought the AI was pretty lame. I can scale it back a bit.

[deccan]

If you can hold it open for another 12 hours or so, I'll join as Pythium. Don't be expecting me to get off a wish any time soon though.

[Soapyfrog]

No problem. I'd like to entice just a few more in and then we are good to go!

[archaeolept]

you know if you had fun victory conditions to go w/ the nice crazy early and mid game...

ie. even though this will start hilariously, it'll still turn into a mindless slog by the endgame. orania is just too big w/out victory conditions.

god knows i'm tempted...

[deccan]

Heh, I just had a close look at this map. It really is crazy. I mean, Ermor has an incredible starting province, but it is cut off by Atlantis!?! Vanheim's provinces are all separated from one another? I think I'm changing my mind and taking Machaka instead. At difficult research setting, I don't think I can survive with regular troops until "wish".

P.S. Jotuns have Blood 40 bonus?!? Vanheims Conjuration 50?!? Ermor has Thaumaturgy 40?!? (Burden of Time). I think I'm too wimpy for this map.

[Soapyfrog]

Well, we all are, thats why it will be crazy fun!

Whats the worst that can happen?

[deccan]

I've uploaded a Machaka pretender.

[daesthai]

I think I'm doing something wrong. I'm trying to upload my pretender info using the ip and port info supplied, but I'm not able to connect.

[Soapyfrog]

I just confirmed the server is up and witing for connections, is it possible you have a firewall?

[daesthai]

not only possible, it's definite. I'm playing from work atm. I'll just have to upload tonight once I get home.

Should've thought of that ::slaps forehead::

Thanks

[Soapyfrog]

np http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[rex_havok]

hi
this is rex_havok
and i would like to join using marignon

[Cainehill]

A question - I noticed early on, you said you were hoping for newer players. Then, hoping for more players. Which has priority, as I'm certainly not one of the newer players, but could get a pretender in this evening.

[Huzurdaddi]

AWESOME! Maybe will will be able to get a full house!

[Cainehill]

Full house? Maybe, maybe not. Still waiting to hear if a strong intermediate isn't "new" enough, plus I'm debating whether or not I like any of the nations / setups left open.

Also - 24QH is fine for the start game, but with 5 provinces a nation, it's going to get busy fairly quick; not sure I want to commit to a game running that fast past 20 or so.

[Soapyfrog]

All are welcome! As for hosting schedule, well, I figure we will probably subside to a 48 hour qh at some point... I guess I'll let people voice their opinions about that, I am not picky!

[Bluebird]

I would prefer 48 hours, specially after the game has progressed a bit.

[Soapyfrog]

So let us say we will do 24 hour quickhost until turn 20 and then 48 hour quickhost thereafter. Any objections?

[Nappa]

that sounds good to me.

[Soapyfrog]

I am going to kick off the server Sunday evening just in case any stragglers want to join, so get your pretenders uploaded if you haven't already!

[Soapyfrog]

Nasty Edition research is set to standard research by default.

Are people ok with this, if not does anyone know how to mod the scenario so that research is set to hard?

[Huzurdaddi]

It's actually ok. Considering the number of gems that are getting pumped into everyone's economies I'm sure that they are going to want to spend them.

[baboune]

I am just afraid of research being so fast that I wont be able to adjust, and as a newby get crushed...

[archaeolept]

you need to know the appropriate command and put it under the scenario specialties.

something like

#research 2 or #magicresearch 2

also you'll need to edit the .map to change the #features to 75

knowing the commands for setting HoF to 15 and commander renaming on would also be very nice...

perhaps

#renaming 1

just mod the file and see if it works in a test http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

edit: nope those renaming and research commands weren't the right ones

Ahh - just delete the #scenario from the .map

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alneyan]

You can change both the HoF and renaming in-game. I have yet to see a command about the research setting in the mapmodding file however; hopefully it has been forgotten in the documation, and does exist, but I am not positive about this.

Actually, just removing the #scenario flag seems to work fine. It allows you to set up all standard settings as usual, without removing the special commanders/starting sites. Make sure not to disable "Special starting locations" however, and it *should* work out. I was also beaten to it in this contest of cross-edits. *Waves at the poster below*

[Nappa]

I'm about to take off to visit my GF. I won't be back until late Sunday night. Don't start without me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[deccan]

Please let me know if it's going to be standard or difficult research. Makes all the difference.

[Soapyfrog]

Well I am going to make it hard research as stated in the first post. Is that bad?

[deccan]

Soapyfrog said:
Well I am going to make it hard research as stated in the first post. Is that bad?



No, this was what I was expecting and what I planned for. If you were to suddenly change back to normal research, I would have wanted to take Pythium back or something.

[Yossar]

Ok, I'll try as Mictlan.

[deccan]

Question: Sea Troll kings produce water gems each turn. Are these allowed?

[Yossar]

They better be allowed or these house rules are getting really silly.

The no blood stone thing is already pushing it. Has anyone ever mass produced blood stones for the earth gem? It's by far the most expensive free gem out there.

[archaeolept]

i've mass produced blood stones but only w/ the forge up

otherwise, yeah, they are expensive and difficult to exploit, and provide a fairly important +1 earth bonus for mictlan and aybsia especially.

[Soapyfrog]

Sea troll kings and troll kings are fine. They are expensive, and require upkeep, so they do not yield the kind of growth curve that fetishes/stones/clams do.

Blood stones may be the most expensive free gem producer out there but its still cheap. I have mass produced them without too much trouble as Abysia. Granted they are not as good as clams and fetishes...

As for being an important +E boost, you should be able to do fine with earth boots and staff of elemental mastery... how many +E items do you need?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Also eliminating fetishes/stones/clams makes the forge a little less of a game winning global. Still very good! But not grotesquely awesome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[baboune]

Are all pretenders uploaded?
If so can we start?

[Soapyfrog]

Missing Pangea and Ctis... Also I must edit the mapfile.

[Cainehill]

archaeolept said:
i've mass produced blood stones but only w/ the forge up

otherwise, yeah, they are expensive and difficult to exploit, and provide a fairly important +1 earth bonus for mictlan and aybsia especially.



Also for races whose mages don't have any feet and can't wear earth boots. Several of the races that are left open are affected by this.

[Soapyfrog]

Those poor legless bastards!

At least they can still use the staff of elemental mastery so they ought to pull through.

Ok new .map file uploaded to the webpage. You can download the zip directly at:

http://www.soapyfrog.net/dom2/oraniane_1_1.zip

[daesthai]

c'tis is uploaded now...i think I did it right, anyway. =)

[Soapyfrog]

Yep! Only Pangea to go...

Don't forget to download the updated map file.

[Soapyfrog]

Whoops did someone hit "start game"?

[Soapyfrog]

Someone hit start game but Pangea is not yet uploaded. Anyone know if its possible to back up a step?

[Cainehill]

Yep. You back up to starting the game all over and everyone re-uploading their pretenders.

And this time, you set the game so that people can't start it.

[Soapyfrog]

Huzzah! And how does one do that...

[Soapyfrog]

Ha, no need to re-upload.

You simply restart Dom2 and set up a network game with the same name/port and all is well.

Good to know!! So the moment Pangea uploads their pretender, we can kick it off.

[Nappa]

I'm done. I noticed that in this thread you said v2.13 but the site says 2.14. Does it matter?

[Yossar]

You can play with either Version on your computer. You might have problems viewing battle replays with the wrong Version, though. 2.14 seems to be a fixed 2.13 so I don't see a reason for the server not to run it.

And since everyone seems to be uploaded, I guess I'll start the game.

[Peter Ebbesen]

archaeolept said:
Ahh - just delete the #scenario from the .map

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Just be damn careful, if you do that, that you do not override some of the more important settings. E.g. if you remove the #scenario, you can set the number of starting provinces, and this number does not take the number of provinces granted in the scenario file into account.

Anyhow, have fun spellslinging. I predict a weird game for you all, as some of the special sites can have a substantial influence on strategies if you let them. E.g. certain nations are rather more dangerous summoners than they are usually, and an Iron Faith Ulm going for massed Templars and a decent blessing might even be feasible.

...And don't play with a human Atlantis without R'lyeh and/or Ermor, or they will slay you all.

For those (if any) unaccustomed to special sites that let you enter them, they can be entered by one commander (usually a specific magic type commander) per turn only, by giving him the strategic "enter site" command. If you have a monster-generating site, it nearly always pays off to park mages there for permanent summoning over time. Some of the troops granted are not negligible.

[deccan]

We have no water nations in this map, but this means that Ermor will have free rein of Atlantis' provinces since they're controlled by AI.

I think that some nations have better advantages that others. Conjuration and Construction bonuses rock. Alteration bonus (Pythium) is less cool because there are few early game Alteration rituals.

[Soapyfrog]

Server is up and running.

We'll do 24h quickhost until turn 20 then go over to 48h quickhost (unless there are objections).

Server is running v2.14.


Peter Ebbesen said:
Just be damn careful, if you do that, that you do not override some of the more important settings. E.g. if you remove the #scenario, you can set the number of starting provinces, and this number does not take the number of provinces granted in the scenario file into account.



Yeah I carefully tested it a few times to discover all the pitfalls. Tricky... it would be WAY easier if you could set all the game options in the .map file! Well maybe you can but I couldn't figure out how http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Peter Ebbesen]

deccan said:
We have no water nations in this map, but this means that Ermor will have free rein of Atlantis' provinces since they're controlled by AI.



Set the AIs to impossible as the map is intended for, then.



I think that some nations have better advantages that others. Conjuration and Construction bonuses rock. Alteration bonus (Pythium) is less cool because there are few early game Alteration rituals.


First, it is damn sure that some nations have better advantages than others. While I have tried to achieve a modicrum of balance, the Nasty Edition has primarily been designed for SP use, and thus it is practically guaranteed to be unbalanced in some respects. So? The challenge is to do the best with the hand you are dealt rather than make everything equal or wishing you had somebody elses hand. (The real challenge, of course, is to steal their hand and make their advantages yours. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) In fact, it is vitally important to inspect the map and your starting position before designing your Pretender, as some starting positions enhance strategies that are otherwise not common.

Some nations definitely have better long-term ritual advantages than others. Likewise, some nations have better short-term advantages, recruitment, or leaders that they should attempt to use to achieve advantage.

You mention Pythium. Instead of focusing on what they have not (Conjuration 50%), focus on what they have: Alteration 20% and Enchantment 20%, both of which can be valuable in the long run even if they are not suited for building the entire game strategy around, more astral gems than you can shake a stick at, access to cheap elemental research wizards from the Castle Arcanum that can complement the standard Theurgs very well and are not vulnerable to mind duels, and a starting leader, Peter Magus the FFAAEE Warrior Mage, who comes fully equipped with decent beginning items and neatly plugs the initial Fire/Earth lack of Pythium. (Strip and give the items to a decent SC pretender if that is your cup of tea, Peter Magus can always be used as a very versatile forger) Even better the Castle Arcanum should have decent recruitment of tough heavy cavalry as well.

Now, if you want to think of something more scary than Conjuration 50 in the long run... Think of the Jotun owned province of the Triple Peaks... Positively scary. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Soapyfrog]

Peter Ebbesen said:
Set the AIs to impossible as the map is intended for, then.



I set them to medium as some of the newer players had concerns about competing vs AI opponents http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

If that gives Ermor a big advantage we'll just have to GANG UP HIM!! GET HIM GUYS!!! *sounds of repeated boots-to-the-head, followed by groaning*

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[deccan]

A favor if possible: I'd like to ask that a note be posted here whenever a new turn is up, because starting up Dom2 just to connect to see if there's a new turn is a real drag for me. Thanks.

[Soapyfrog]

Ok. We are on Turn 2.

[archaeolept]

deccan - its far easier to create a desktop shortcut specifically to the game. then its just a quick click/doubleclick to check the status.

[Soapyfrog]

It's true: I won't remember to updated this thread every time we play a turn.

[daesthai]

How do I make a shortcut point specifically to the game?

[Alneyan]

There is a file called command_line_switches.txt in your doc repertory. In order to make a shortcut for a game, create a shortcut of your Dominions exe, go to Properties => Shortcut, and select the Target field.

You should add the commands --ipadr [IP] --port [XXXX] after dom2.exe, with the IP of the server and the port of the game. For example, it could give the following for a Mosehansen game (Yarnspinners in my example):
C:\dominions2\dom2.exe --ipadr mosehansen.dk --port 2292

Hope it helps!

[Yossar]

Make a copy of the Dom 2 shortcut, click on properties and change target to:

C:\games\dominions2\dom2.exe --tcpclient --ipadr soapyfrog.no-ip.info --port 2345 --nonationsel

That's in windows and your dom2.exe directory might be different.

[daesthai]

Thanks folks!

[archaeolept]

here's one of mine, for instance:
two other useful switches are, i find:

--res 1065 806
(creates the game in a window of whatever size you specify)

--clickvol 0
(gets rid of that annoying click noise. hell, maybe later patches already got rid of it - I just need to be sure ;-) )

[baboune]

Humm.. C'Tis you are around?

You did not play your turn yesterday, and it seems that you have not played today...

[Soapyfrog]

Yes, wo ist Daesthai?

Also: any mod which wants to move this thread to the MP forum please feel free!

[baboune]

I guess he disapears... He must have had no believer left...

Not joking: what do we do? Replace him with an I?

[Soapyfrog]

I sent him a PM. Hopefully we'll get some news...

[Yossar]

Why would someone join a new game and then disappear without going AI before turn 5? Maybe his computer exploded.

[Soapyfrog]

Hey guys the server is going down for a little bit, sorry for any inconvenience.

It should be back up by 1:00am EST.

[deccan]

Yossar said:
Why would someone join a new game and then disappear without going AI before turn 5? Maybe his computer exploded.



And C'tis is even a very good nation for this map, with a Conjuration 30 bonus site. I would even prefer C'tis to Machaka.

[Soapyfrog]

Server back up sorry for the delay folks.

[deccan]

Waiting on C'tis. If he really doesn't want to play any more, we should really do something about it.

[baboune]

did you set the server to 48h QH? We still have 17 hours to play turn 5! and it has been more than 24 hours...

[anatoli11]

I think it was because the server/game was restarted.

Can you set C'tis to AI as they have staled the Last 4 turns...

[rex_havok]

question?
i am new and i'm sure everyone else knows the answer, but if everyone is done early, do we run the turn early?
(i would love faster early turns)
question? if C,tis becomes AI and someone later would like to play them is it possible?

and Lastly i tried the hotlink to start game but the
"C:\games\dominions2\dom2.exe --tcpclient --ipadr soapyfrog.no-ip.info --port 2345 --nonationsel
(and i did ajust it for my directory location)
did not work w/ xp -alternatives?

[Soapyfrog]

Ctis is now AI... sorry Daesthai!

[Soapyfrog]

I use

--tcpclient --ipadr soapyfrog.no-ip.info --port 2345

And that works for me.

If everyone finsihes their turn the game will host.

I dont think we can make Ctis human again... at least game says its irreversible..

[Nappa]

I can't seem to get the shortcut working either. This is the latest variation I've tried:

"C:\Program Files\dominions2\dom2.exe --tcpclient --ipadr soapyfrog.no-ip.info --port 2345"

can someone point out the error of my ways? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

Nappa said:
I can't seem to get the shortcut working either. This is the latest variation I've tried:

"C:\Program Files\dominions2\dom2.exe --tcpclient --ipadr soapyfrog.no-ip.info --port 2345"

can someone point out the error of my ways? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Is that an exact quote? If so then you need tomove that " after 2345 to be after dom2.exe

short explanation
I know it doesnt seem logical but its true. You are only quoting up to the exe

longer explanation
The only reason Win wants the quotes at all is because the blanks in the path to the exe mess it up. So it only wants the to clarify the exe call, after that its back to business as usual. Another way to do it without the confusing quotes would be...
C:\Progra~1\domini~1\dom2.exe --tcpclient --ipadr soapyfrog.no-ip.info --port 2345
which isnt bad to say in instructions since it works for both new Wins and old Wins. Its the old Win98 way of saying "6 letters of a directory name that is too long so the ~1 or ~2 is saying grab the first (or second one) that matches it"

[Bluebird]

Spaces in filenames are a really stupid idea - and I think naming a major application directory with a space is even worse. I would write a really ugly letter to the person who decided this if I just

would know his address.
would use Microsoft Windows. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Nappa]

Thanks Gandalf, that did it. Also, thanks for the explanation on the quotes. They made no sense to me.

[Gandalf Parker]

Bluebird said:
Spaces in filenames are a really stupid idea - and I think naming a major application directory with a space is even worse.



Agreed. I think its a fairly standard convention to use an underscore like_this instead.
But thats Microsoft for you. Ignore the conventions and invent a "new one" for everyone to use.

[Soapyfrog]

Sorry guys I have to bring the server down again for a few hours today as the electrics here get some love.

Will be back up in the evening.

[rex_havok]

oops did i expand too quick?
i was just viewing the sites on succesful mp games and noticed that fast expantion means almost sure death.
and everyone else is following a very slow expansion.
the idea to stay under the radar and avoid aggression and wasted resources?

[Huzurdaddi]

Rex,

it looks to me like you are kicking ***. If I were you I would keep on doing what you have been doing so far!

[Soapyfrog]

Server is back up btw. Only Mictlan to play...

[Soapyfrog]

Hey Yossar play your turn already!!

[Yossar]

I was at work.

[Soapyfrog]

Yossar said:
I was at work.


Excuses, excuses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Yossar]

Now if everyone could just get their turn in before I went to work, we wouldn't have this problem. It seems like my schedule is exactly opposite of everyone else.

[Soapyfrog]

Heheh I have a similar problem in another game, it always hosts 2 hours after I leave for work... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[daesthai]

Sorry for the disappearing act, folks. Had to deal with a situation here. I didn't have internet access for the Last week or so, couldn't even send an email to let you know.

Back now. No worries about switching to AI, I was hoping you would since I couldn't play. I'll just get in on the next game. =) Good luck!

[Soapyfrog]

Hey glad you got back Online! We'll keep a spot open for you in the next one...

[rex_havok]

? what happened to altantis (other then domain death.)?

if someone did it please brag!
or was it some form of bad luck?
how can an AI have domain death on turn 11

[Huzurdaddi]

Really? I snuffed it out? BWHAHA really? No freaking way. I'll have to look when I get home.

I have a high dominion and I have been building as many temples as humanly possible. Wheee!

[deccan]

It's time to start the "gang up on Ermor" chant.

[Huzurdaddi]

How about that he did die a dominion death. From the graphs it looks like the computer took something silly like dominion 3 or something. HA!

And it looks like Caelum crushed him from the other side! HA!

Weirdly it looks like his forces changed to independents. I thought that once you died from dominion death that all of your units left the game. Hmmph. Too bad for me!

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh and as to my "power" I am so starved for cash I am now pilaging my home provinces. Oy.

Stupid random events giving me militia. God. I *need* that money you fools die off or something from starvation!

[anatoli11]

So you would agree to "Death to Ermor"?

[deccan]

Heh, I just realized that since C'tis is now AI, I'm surrounded by three AIs. I hope that they're not in a warmongering mood. Better pump up that PD...

[rex_havok]

i think these turns are going quickly. it is nice to get 2 turns per 24hrs.(well not quite but..:)
congrades Huzurdaddi on killing atlantis. one less heathen i dont have to smite. of cource you are worst then a heathen but my holy army will get you later, after i (try too)smite a few computer players and fend of a few thieves.

[Soapyfrog]

deccan is Last to play... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[deccan]

Heh, I'm GMT +11 and I can't play at work. *Sigh*. Sorry.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Huzurdaddi said:
Oh and as to my "power" I am so starved for cash I am now pilaging my home provinces. Oy.



Given that pillaging provinces as soon as possible as harshly as possible is a standard tactic for Undead Ermor to put up as many temples and extra fortresses as possible, I do not think this should be taken as a sign of weakness on your part - rather smart play.* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


* Unless you are playing living Ermor, in which case, my condolences.

[Huzurdaddi]

shhhhh.

Yeah, I'm ... uhm ... playing BE that's it. Woe is me!

[Huzurdaddi]

Oops double post it was in a *really* old browser window and I thought I had not hit submit.

[deccan]

That's really funny. That second post actually predated the first one by over three hours?!? I didn't know that was possible!

[rex_havok]

game rule question?
if you are sieging a castle (own the hex but not the fort) can you move some of your army to attack the province behind (not boardering any controled provinces) or do you have to conquer the fort before proceeding?

[Soapyfrog]

Yep. You could move your whole army even, but, better not lose the battle http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[baboune]

The size of your besieging army affects the sieging length. The more troops you have the faster the castle falls.

[rex_havok]

i have lots of hvy cav,inf,specials and archers(little fluff) to take the tower. enough i can split my force and seige the tower and grab the next province. however i keep stalling.(he does have a lot of troops inside)
it must be the 30 odd troops he keeps hitting me with before i can move. I guess?

[baboune]

Did we lose Pangaea? He has not played yet, and yesterday I dont think he played...

[Huzurdaddi]

We may have lost him. No idea. We can give him a couple of days ( although it is slowing down the game! ).

[baboune]

I get a message when connecting: turn file is corrupted...

[Huzurdaddi]

I get a message when connecting: turn file is corrupted...




Uh oh. Are you using 2.14? Hopefully you are using a lower Version and that is the problem.

[baboune]

No. I am using 2.14...

[baboune]

K.. I deleted the .trn file.. reconnected and it worked..

[Nappa]

I'm back. I went camping thinking that one of the coffee shops in the area would have wirelss internet access. nope. After missing my turn on Sunday I pretty much begged a bartender to let me plug into his credit card machine for 5 minutes with about 2 hours remaining on Monday.

[rex_havok]

question on deals
other then a NAP for xturns are there other common arrangements. ie can you have alliances (i don't think this is really possible because you cannot share anything, right?) i'm new and just want to know what can be done differently w/ players.
ps i am enjoying this game and hope everyone else is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

You can have any arrangement that you want. The game engine does not however enforce them.

You can share items, gold, and gems via the messaging interface.

[baboune]

I think you can make alliance. It just requires some coordination.

Most of the times I try to agree on a common border.

Other things you can do: trade Magic items, gems.

[Huzurdaddi]

About alliances I have to say that the world wide alliance against Ermor on turn 20 something is a little tiersome. It's quite difficult to handle. As one would expect.

[anatoli11]

I don't have a world wide alliance against you... I am only in it for myself. I have no control if others want to take a nibble of your vast empire.

You have already taken the positions of two of the starting players (Ctis who staled to death and Atlantis who was dominioned to death).

I don't have any indies left to munch in my region, so rather than sitting on my butt, I have been (unsuccessfully) attacking you.

I figure that you can afford to lose a couple of provinces, and perhaps that is how you are viewed by some of the other players.

As you are currently leading in provinces, castles, and gems, and near the top in the other catagories (except income of course), I don't see why you don't see yourself as a target for aggession.

[Soapyfrog]

Ahh the classic dogpile. Of course, its not really in the REST of the players interest to see ermor dissected so quickly, since you will simply emerge stronger from it.

In fact, maybe one of your neighbours could profit while you are so busy with ermor... hmmm?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Anatoli11,

I find it funny what you did. I now realize that you had perhaps the 2nd most powerful nation in the world. It is unlikely that any other nation in the world could fend off your vast Vine Ogre armies ( and considering their size I am quite sure that you are now making Vine Ogres at a 1 gem per 3 Ogre rate and perhaps with, I would guess around 15 mages ). You could have easily crushed anyone else. My army is somewhat suited to take you on, and I am well castled so it takes more time to kill me.

You could have been a real contender in this game, but instead you attcked the only person who could stand in your way, and a person who holds grudges. I will take you out 1st if I am able. I assure you.



I figure that you can afford to lose a couple of provinces




You figure *WRONG*. If I have the chance I will kill you 1st. No doubt about it. I may even not attack Ulm any more. I will try to fend off Marignon, but you are my primary target make no mistake. If I have a chance, and let's be honest you guys are taking it to me, I will kill you.

[Huzurdaddi]

Perhaps I overstated the number of mages you are using to summon. Perhaps you are only using around 10 ( which means 30 per turn ) ... but 15 is possible. I would have to look at the graph again to make sure.

[Soapyfrog]

Wow, I have to get some scouts up there to watch these battles...

[anatoli11]

Huzurdaddi said:
You figure *WRONG*. If I have the chance I will kill you 1st. No doubt about it. I may even not attack Ulm any more. I will try to fend off Marignon, but you are my primary target make no mistake. If I have a chance, and let's be honest you guys are taking it to me, I will kill you.



Well you know where I live... My ogres are shaking in their green booties...

Hey, I'm just playing this game to have some fun and make some friends (as much as you can in a aggresive, back-stabbing, combat-based game).

If your motivation in the game is to kick my *ss from here to Karan, then go for it. I'm a pretty new player (this is my 4th MP game, none completed), so my motivation and tactics in attacking you might not be too sound, but thats part of playing and learning the game IMO. You're an experienced player - come teach me a lesson in winning in multi-player games...

[Soapyfrog]

Oh yeah, I think we are all playing for fun here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Huz just likes to focus all his pain and rage on one target, in a cathartic orgy of destruction. And you're IT! Lucky you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

I'm a pretty new player (this is my 4th MP game, none completed)




Uh hun. I doubt I have any more than that.



My ogres are shaking in their green booties...
- come teach me a lesson in winning in multi-player games...




Tough talk from a person who has 2 allies attacking me at the same time.

I have little time for people who instigate dogpiles. I hope I am able to crush you. I will laugh at how pathetic you are if you can not kill me with 3 people attacking me at the same time.

Seriously, pathetic.

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh yeah, I think we are all playing for fun here




Well yes and no. You know how much I despise dogpiles. They seem to always happen though. We'll see how this works out.

[Soapyfrog]

Huzurdaddi said:
Well yes and no. You know how much I despise dogpiles. They seem to always happen though. We'll see how this works out.


Becuase they are singularly logical. The best way to pursue a military conflict is with overwhelming force, with as many allies as you can muster.

Napoleon's dictum was "I would rather fight Allies than be one" and look where that got him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

If, in fact, 3 nations cannot beat you, then their dogpiling will have been thoroughly justified http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

In the meantime... fight allies with allies!

[Yossar]

Look at the graphs. Ermor is #1 in provinces, forts (by a huge margin), gem income, army size, and victory points, and 2nd in research and dominion. At this point Ermor isn't going to be beaten without multiple people attacking him. It's not unfair, unexpected, or illogical that an Ermor dogpile happens when Ermor is so far in the lead. I don't know how you could have avoided it, but it isn't unheard of for Ermor to make some friends of his own. Maybe he'd have to bribe them, but a bribed ally is better than no ally. I won my Last game by allying with Ermor, persuading everyone else to focus on him, and then picking off people when they were only thinking of Ermor. Ermor and I ended up as the two strongest nations, but I managed to amass a bit more power than he did before the final showdown.

[Huzurdaddi]

Look at the graphs. Ermor is #1 in provinces, forts (by a huge margin), gem income, army size, and victory points, and 2nd in research and dominion.




Ha! The margin is not large in any of those statistics. And the army graph is as always not horribly useful since it is quality of troops which generally determine battles not quanity. I would much rather have one vine ogre than one ermorian undead. And the ratio is nearly there.

#1 in gems means I have a rainbow. My mistake. Wanted to play around, should have made an SC.

As for the forts, what do you think I am going to spend my money on? Forts == troops for Ermor.



At this point Ermor isn't going to be beaten without multiple people attacking him




Making an assessment like that from the graphs is totally crazy. *if* I survive what is currently going on the method through which I do it will totally not be captured by the graphs. I can only hope that I do survive but the only way is via a great difference in .. well I won't get into it.



The best way to pursue a military conflict is with overwhelming force




Got to agree with that though. Completely logical.



If, in fact, 3 nations cannot beat you, then their dogpiling will have been thoroughly justified




If they can not beat me, well you know what it means. There should be *no way* that I could survive this. None, zero, zip.

[Huzurdaddi]

Oh and Yossar you should know how inaccurate the graphs can be. You are playing Mictlain. The graphs totally do not capture your power. They capture but the smallest fraction of it.

However I have to say that without soul contrats your power is greatly limited. OTOH it just means more vampires.

[Soapyfrog]

Well Vampire Lords may not summon allies, as per our house rules, so they may not be the best play either.

[Huzurdaddi]

Anyway I don't want to be a sour puss anymore. I'll just take my lumps.

Time to go look at the destruction rained upon me.

[Yossar]

Huzurdaddi said:



At this point Ermor isn't going to be beaten without multiple people attacking him




Making an assessment like that from the graphs is totally crazy. *if* I survive what is currently going on the method through which I do it will totally not be captured by the graphs. I can only hope that I do survive but the only way is via a great difference in .. well I won't get into it.




Who would you think is even close to being more powerful than you? Pangaea? Vine ogres are great tanks, but aren't too hard to deal with with their horrible defense and MR. Your research and gem income are much better than Pangaea's. Your army is large but mostly worthless, but your research and gems you clearly have the ability to mix quite a few tougher units in there. The graphs leave a lot to be desired (but with no hidden gem income from clams, etc. the graphs are better than usual) but that and a bit of scouting are all most people have to go by for information. And they show you to clearly be in first place. The only nations that are really hard to gauge from the graphs are the blood nations. Who knows what kind of blood income Mictlan, Abysia, Jotun, and Vanheim have? And how many ice and arch devils have been summonned? The graphs aren't going to show that. I guess it is a bit telling that I'm the only other nation with a second Victory Point, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Who would you think is even close to being more powerful than you?




Uhm, let's see: Marignon, Man, Arcosphale, Matchaka, or T'ien Ch'i( he's doing a great job with a nation considered weak)?

WRT: the troops graph, Pangea's statistics look very good due to free spawns. Man's stats are 100% quality troops. I've been fighting him those numbers ain't archers. They are Vine Ogres. Which are FINE troops in those numbers let me assure you.



Vine ogres are great tanks, but aren't too hard to deal with with their horrible defense and MR.




Unless you have access to 'save or die' spells that's a lot of HP to pound through. They Last a long time. All that time his mages pound the crap out of you. He needs those mages anyway to lead that number of magical units he might as well use them.

Hey if you have a good way to obliterate crazy numbers of vine ogres I am all ears. Remember this is hard research. Don't go telling me to spam nether darts or use disintegrate those are a little too high. No soul slay either I'm not Arcosphale or Pythium. No polymorph it's too high up and I'm a death nation. Wrathful skies would be great. Sadly I'm not Caelum. I've basically got to pound through those HP. I ( very sadly ) had to use Behomoths Last time to crush his 1st army and it hurt me way more than it hurt him. Those are expensive units and they are suboptimal against such large troops I would have much rather used them against Ulm or marignon, but Man forced my hand.



(but with no hidden gem income from clams, etc. the graphs are better than usual




This is 100% correct. They are still flawed but they are *much* better than normal where they have almost no link to reality!



And they show you to clearly be in first place.




By how much, exactly? I have 1 province more than 1 nation and 3 other nations are lagging me by 1 more. Sounds like spin to me, honestly. 5 nations are basically in a tie for research. We've already discussed the army graph -- it's pretty much worthless. The only graph I am ahead by is gems and sadly that is due to a rainbow pretender which is why I am in this pickle. If I had an SC I would wipe away the chaff before me.

If I'm ahead then it ain't by much 4-5 nations are pretty darn close. And one more ( man ) has a lot more strength ( due to I have to conceed a very nice equipping of mages ) than the graphs show.



Who knows what kind of blood income Mictlan, Abysia, Jotun, and Vanheim have




Well it's kind of irrelevant since I think you are the only one being played by a human. I have little doubt where the 11 SCs will land. Anytime I have played Mictlain and been left alone for as long as you have it's been trouble for the rest of the world. However you are missing Soul Contracts, lucky for us or the game would basically be decided by now.

Anyway I'll fight it out. Who knows what will happen. Maybe some random fortune will save me or something. We'll see.

[Yossar]

Huzurdaddi said:

Who knows what kind of blood income Mictlan, Abysia, Jotun, and Vanheim have




Well it's kind of irrelevant since I think you are the only one being played by a human. I have little doubt where the 11 SCs will land.



Jotun is human controlled, has a base slave income of 3, a blood magic 40 (!) site, and starts with two W3B2 mages. It's a setup that practically screams Ice Devil. I'm not sure if he decided to go that route, but I chose a somewhat ineficient path to start with (I'm a Mictlan newbie), so if he did he could have easily beaten me to most of them.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Yossar said:
Jotun is human controlled, has a base slave income of 3, a blood magic 40 (!) site, and starts with two W3B2 mages. It's a setup that practically screams Ice Devil. I'm not sure if he decided to go that route, but I chose a somewhat ineficient path to start with (I'm a Mictlan newbie), so if he did he could have easily beaten me to most of them.


Indeed, underestimate Jotunheim on this map at your own peril. The Triple Peaks province is all things considered the single best place for ritual magic in the world as it has gem reducing effects for several paths, all of them with magic that Jotunheim commonly uses. Not quite as specialised as some nations get, but certainly nothing to ignore.

As for Ermor, if Ermor controls three starting capitals, it is perfectly reasonable for a few other players on his borders to unite to take him down. Especially considering the very, very, powerful sites under Ermor's control. Not attempting to do so would likely be suicidal in the long run if Ermor is already pushing dominion. The real question is why Ermor does not have any allies.

Surely, there must be somebody bordering those dastardly attackers, who disrespect the imperial way of unlife, who would be willing to take a province or three while the armies are away fighting the risen dead. Perhaps if Ermor sent them a gift? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nappa]

Arco, Jotun and Machaka are the ones who have me worried. They are being very quiet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[baboune]

I am only quiet because I have no idea of what I am doing ...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Indeed, underestimate Jotunheim on this map at your own peril.




Totally agree. I did not notice that they were being played by a human. My mistake!



As for Ermor, if Ermor controls three starting capitals




Sadly it does not and never has. I have not been been able to take C'tis as when I was about to devour it I was dogpiled. And I will now never have it. However if this distortion makes the pathetic alliance feel better then great for them.



risen dead. Perhaps if Ermor sent them a gift




I can assure you the price for such things is quite high. It's like getting money from a shrewd negotiator: if you do not need the money the cost is cheap, when you are desperate the cost is very high.

Anyway I'll go back to taking my beating like a man ... or something!

[Nappa]

Baboune, your first MP game?

[anatoli11]

So Huzurdaddi you're back to where you started... and you messaged me that you want me to continue trash talking you...

Well, here goes: No one else has taken any provinces off of you, you've killed 6 turns worth of vine ogres & a few leaders, and you havn't been able to invade my territory... so I'm still waiting for the big hurt you've promised me.

[Huzurdaddi]

I am only quiet because I have no idea of what I am doing ...




Could have fooled me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You are doing great! It looks like you are getting a real handle on the game. My hat's off to you.



Well, here goes: No one else has taken any provinces off of you




They haven't? You sure about that? Perhaps you want to talk to your allies.



and you havn't been able to invade my territory




No kidding. I wonder why I could not press against you. Perhaps it was your allies again pushing me. Maybe. You are still my #1 target.

And no, I don't want you to continue trash talking, I want you to die. It's really that simple. Dogpiling has always disgusted me. Especially dog piling at this stage of the game.



you've killed 6 turns worth of vine ogres




35 vine ogres a turn. Good to know.



big hurt you've promised me.




I always said: if I am able. Let's face facts the deck is HORRIBLY in your favor. 4 nations versus 1 is tough odds for anyone to survive. That I am not dead yet is pathetic on your part. Pathetic.

[Huzurdaddi]

Anyway I'm through with the trash talking/sulking as I said in an earlier post. I'm going to take my lumps and put out as many as I can while I go down.

I've also expressed what I think of dogpiling. I understand why it is done, I don't have to like it though.

[rex_havok]

ermor is so powerful that he has knocked umh to a stop is crushing man (whining about vine orgers but driving over them..bad show). and i will also join the fray but i am in bad shape and do not stand a chance. it would have been nice if one of the power houses had done this but. currently a "dogpile" of a few weak nations taking on a giant is not unreasonable. BAD show Huzurdaddi of ermor. flaming unjustly. from my pt of view you have gain teritory over all and it will take more players to attack you to even make a dent in your conquests. BTW this is a classic example of weaker nations baning loosly together and would be a normal game stratagy.
anyone able to field some 550+ quality undead per turn (at least the Last 3turns) should not complain about unfair treatment. well done Man for trying to slow ermor sorry that you are probably dead (o well i am next) as a side note: originally, i hoped just to knock you down a notch but you may take this too personally and it may have to be a "death match".
i have greatly enjoyed this game to date and look forward to more battles i hope i can make it challanging for all.

[baboune]

No but It is my first time in such a good position (in terms of score).
I hav outran my plans...

[Huzurdaddi]

Rex,

I have never seen a post that has made me more angry. I have controlled myself and deleted my 1st reply.

Disgusting.

I would normally go AI at this point since it is not worth the agrivation of playing a game this way. But I want to insure that I do not reward bad behaviour. I don't want to reward distortions and lies. I want to do what little I can to insure that people that make such clams gain as little as possible from them.

[Huzurdaddi]

Rex,

seriously do you think people are stupid? You know graphs are on don't you?



and i will also join the fray but i am in bad shape and do not stand




You are 4th in provinces, only 1 behind the next two players ahead of you. You are #1 by a good amount in income. You are #3 in gems. You are #2 in research. You are #4 in army size. My god. Seriously how dare you say this kind of drivel?

When I was attacked I was attacked by the #3 in army size, plus the #4 in army size as well as the #5 in army size. I mean seriously who the heck is kidding who? I was also attacking C'tis who had an army which was middle of the pack. Sure I was #1 in army size but the combination of just Ulm and Man had almost as many troops ( and of let's be honest greater quality ). With the addition of your troops ( or hell C'tis ) it's not even close.

You don't want to call that a dog pile? I honestly don't know who you are trying to deceive. I despise that type of spin. Honestly. I *hate* it.

I really don't want to continue a discussion about the anti-ermor alliance, but I *will* refute mindless drivel like this. Lying simply will not be tolerated.

[Soapyfrog]

To put it more diplomatically that Huz:

Marignon is in excellent shape. I am not sure why he thinks he is doing badly.

Ermor is only seriously ahead in castles and gems... even in army size where ermor is usally dominant he is not in first, albeit probably due to the current war.

I think Man and Ulm are clearly a good match for Ermor... enough to create a somewhat of a stalemated situation for the moment. Marignon obviously will tip the scales... that much is clear to an outside observer.

Let's not let tempers run too hot. It's just a flipping game. The flaming and arguing are completely unneccessary. And it it irritates me to see it apparently building up in such a bizarre manner.

There is no need, no point, no purpose, to get emotional over a game.

[Huzurdaddi]

Well it looks like your lies worked Rex, congratulations. More join the cause.

I love liars. They are great.



Let's not let tempers run too hot.




No, let's. When liars succeed at *anything* it's bad. That where the line is drawn.

[baboune]

I would really like to be able to know who is at war with whom, who has a treaty with whom, etc.
So for a start:
Arcoschephale:
War with Abyssia and Pythium.
NAP with Mictlan and Machaka.

[Soapyfrog]

Can't NAPs be secret?

Can't wars be secret too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Ermor is currently at war with:

Marignon
Man
Ulm
C'tis

and it looks like starting next turn:

Matchaka.

I know this destroys my advantage in the asymmetry of information, but at this point who cares! Ermor's time as a power who can win the game is offically over. However Ermor can and will still hurt those who attack it as much as possible.

[Huzurdaddi]

Confirimed: Matchaka decided to join into the dogpile as well. How comical.

[deccan]

Huzurdaddi said:
Confirimed: Matchaka decided to join into the dogpile as well. How comical.




Some comments:

1) Ermor has diplomacy problems. Everyone who plays Ermor knows that going in. The Last thing you should be doing is to exacerbate the problem by threatening everyone.

2) Anatoli did not instigate any global alliance against you. So far as I know, everyone is individually responding to the game situation.

3) Personally, I chose to attack you because I was getting annoyed by your complaints in this forum. And I agree with those who say that you're the one who seems to be making it too personal.

4) I'm still open to negotiations. PM me if you have an offer to make.

[Huzurdaddi]

The Last thing you should be doing is to exacerbate the problem by threatening everyone.




BTW, I threatened no one. I was totally congenial in game to all of my neighbors ( except for one : Ulm who took a province that I wanted *very* badly, however in the end I moved my forces at his request away from his border even though I had far greater numbers. He subsequently attacked me ).

I only become upset when people piled on to me. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I think you would be upset if the suitation was reversed.

[Nappa]

I had something really weird happen today. I played my turn and hit end turn. Immediately my turn came back up with a message that I had staled. Sure enough, every action I took during turn 30 was gone.

Anyone ever see anything like that?

[Huzurdaddi]

A couple of things come to mind as possibilities:

1) You were pretty close to the end of the time limit. You started your turn before the timer ended and while you were taking your turn ( at this point in the game turns start taking a long time ) the game hosted. Then you ended your turn which summitted the turn to the server, however it had already hosted so it told you had a stale turn and dl'ed the new turn.

2) You checked one time eariler to see if everyone had taken their turn and dl'ed your turn without you knowing. You did nothing with your turn since you did not even know that you had dl'ed it. As soon as you connected the next time the program uploaded your turn for you behind the scenes thus "playing" your turn. Since you were the Last person it quickhosted while you were doing what you thought would be your turn. When you ended your turn the client attempted to upload but found out that the previous turn had already been hosted and dl'ed the new turn.

Actually I'm betting it was #1 since it said "stale turn" I don't think ( but don't know for sure ) that the 2nd sceanrio would cause a "stale turn" message. It would just execute nothing.

[Yossar]

Nappa said:
I had something really weird happen today. I played my turn and hit end turn. Immediately my turn came back up with a message that I had staled. Sure enough, every action I took during turn 30 was gone.

Anyone ever see anything like that?



When I saw your post, I thought "I bet Nappa is playing Pangaea". Sure enough, you are. You took your turn too close to the end of the time limit and the game hosted while you were still making your moves. Nothing gets uploaded until you hit "End turn." If it's close to hosting time, make all your major moves, hit "End Turn" to make sure they get in on time, and then go back and make all the minor changes you have to and hope that you can get them in on time.

[Nappa]

Thanks guys, that makes sense. That was a painful lesson.

[baboune]

Hi,
I got a message from host saying that Mictlan is cheating?!? What is that? Something auto-generated? A bug?

[Soapyfrog]

Not sure!

[Huzurdaddi]

There have been reports on the forums that using the alchemist's stone can cause that report. So it very well could be nothing.

[Nappa]

server down?

[Huzurdaddi]

I was just able to connect.

Sometimes Dom2 is a little flakey and you have to try a couple of times to connect.

[deccan]

Blood sacrifice can also trigger the alert apparently as under some unknown circumstances a priest trying to blood sacrifice while not having blood slaves can get free slaves.

[Nappa]

ya, I tried it twice then tried it about 15 minutes later and got right in.

[Yossar]

Hmm, that's really odd. No idea why it would say I'm cheating. My income was the same as usual and I don't have the alchemist's stone. I didn't alchemize an unusual amount of gems Last turn. Maybe it is some kind of blood sacrifice bug. Should we save the turn and send it to the devs?

[baboune]

Am I the only one who got that message? that would make it even stranger...

[Soapyfrog]

We all got the message I think. I have saved the turn file just in case... I guess its worth it to send it to the devs so they can figure out why their cheat detection is getting triggered mistakenly.

No biggee, let us play on!

[Yossar]

I thought poor Ermor was going to be wiped off the map in a few turns thanks to the grossly unfair piling on that was going on. The graphs show a small dip in provinces for a couple turns, but he's more than made up for that by now. All the other graphs show Ermor doing better than ever.

If anything, it looks like more people need to pile on to slow down Ermor. Or is this another case of how the graphs lie?

If Ermor gets past Ulm and takes the 50 Conjuration Bonus site in 186, things are going to get ugly. 20 gem wraithlords and 5 gem Bane Lords? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif Mictlan is definitely getting heavily involved if that goes down.

[Huzurdaddi]

And indeed it has smashed me. I may win against the foes that are currently attacking me and I may lose it's still up in the air.

No matter what happens though, neither side in this war has any chance of winning the game. We have all taken huge casualties while gaining nothing at all while counties like yours have expanded at the rate of 3-4 provinces a turn. Kudos to you. You are in an excellent position to win.

[Soapyfrog]

I agree, Mictlan seems to hame made quite the meteoric rise to power while no one was paying attention...

Jeepers!

[Yossar]

Soapyfrog said:
I agree, Mictlan seems to hame made quite the meteoric rise to power while no one was paying attention...



Shhh, look at Ermor and all those scary undead. Booga booga!

Or all those big trees that Pangaea and Man have. Trees are scary too!

Mictlan has just been picking off a few independents and AI provinces that I didn't get to in the beginning. Nothing to see here.

[Soapyfrog]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Yossar]

There goes the 50 Conjuration site to Ermor. From what I can see, I still find it hard to believe that Ermor is being slowed down at all by the people attacking him. We don't share much of a border so I guess it isn't really my business for the time being, though.

[Huzurdaddi]

Well I have not gone home yet, I do know that there are 4 very large enemy armies ( perhaps the largest in the world at this point ) on my border as of Last turn. I am quite sure that they were coordinating for an attack this turn.

It's not like I have Ice Devil SC's than can take down these armies single-handed either.

Perhaps if I had your type of resources I could fend them off. But it does not look like it. Maybe if I had conjuration-9 or something. But that's a pipe dream.

As I said I'm no threat to win the game. Others who have not been fighting for 15 turns straight against the powers of the world and who have been expanding madly and taking capitals here and there ( hey, who has Abysia's and Vanhiem's capital http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) have a damn good shot at winning this.

The only reason I am still in this is to insure that the people who ganged up on me so early in the game do not do well in the end game. I have partially acheived this by ( somehow ) slowing my inevitable obliteration at their hands.

I fear though, that when I get home I will find that my 2 main forces have been smashed and that the gig is up. I'll still play it out but I fear for the worst.

Marignon's Purgatory was a brilliant move which saved him from Pangea and allowed him to continue his march on me. Kudos.

[Yossar]

Huzurdaddi said:( hey, who has Abysia's and Vanhiem's capital http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )



Not me. I briefly controlled the province of Vanheim until Joun "accidentally" killed one of the Ice Devils sitting on it and took the province. I also just lost the province of Abysia to Abysia's god, come back from the dead. But he won't Last long.

[Soapyfrog]

Ah woe is me, the games' powerhouses are SO WEAK poor fellows whatever shall they do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hey, look on the bright side, you could be Tien Chi, and have nothing going for you, even if your graphs look good!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Be warned, I fight like a girl!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Huzurdaddi]

Well I made a mistake in Last turns orders. No idea how I did that, but it matters not. I am now AI.

The classless Alliance won. It's really too bad. As I said in game Anatoli11 you are 100% without class ( as is Rex_havoc ) if I find either of you in a game you should know that my only goal will be to wipe you out.

[Huzurdaddi]

And and Mictlain piling on at the end ... well ... that's pretty classless as well.

Sorry Yossar, but it is.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Now, I've been watching this game with interest to see if anything truly weird would evolve as a result of the rather interesting starting situation [which could lead me to update the scenario, so please provide feedback on that, if you would be so kind], but, alas, one other question really raises its ugly head after reading the Last few pages. As my knowledge of Dominions 2 MP is limited to smaller scale games with friends, I would like to know whether the level of personal attacks, *****ing (of the "I really mean it, scumbag" rather than the "please meet my propaganda department" variety), low-level vitriol, and immature behaviour shown by some players is typical of larger Dominions 2 MP games? Is quitting because you are losing typical or an aberration?

[Huzurdaddi]

Peter,

I am usually quite congenial as anyone who met me in the 1st 20 turns would have seen. I'm simply against gang banging at an early stage in the game. The *only* reason I stayed in the game was to butcher their armies as much as possible in hope that when I did die they would be destroyed by their neighbors. And I played 20 turns that I would rather have not played to be honest.

As for the scenario I think it's very nice. I really enjoyed the setup and the game *could* have been a lot of fun.

[baboune]

Great scenario.. really like the map.

I am hurt by the optionals we use though... No clams, no fever fetish... Hard to get enough gems...

[Huzurdaddi]

I am hurt by the optionals we use though... No clams, no fever fetish... Hard to get enough gems...




At least all sides are equally restricted. Which I was dubious about the idea at 1st I have to say that I really like it. It makes it so that nations who are not at war do not gain a huge advantage. It reduces micromanagement which I am all for. It's just a plus.

Way to go frog. I really did not think it would work out.

[anatoli11]

Glad to see you quit Huzurdaddi!

Just a few facts:
1) Turn 20 on this map is like turn 30 to 35 when every one starts with one province. In my case I was out of independents to attack, so was looking to start fighting other factions.
2) I had discussions with Huzurdaddi before attacking him and we could not come to an arrangement that suited both of us.
3) I didn't organize a "dogpile" against Huzurdaddi - I did however broadcast that I was going to attack him to all players, and it was up to them whether or not they wanted to join in.
4) Huzurdaddi constantly used immature and rude language as well as "death" threats when sending in-game Messages. If he posted on this BBS the kinds of things he sent to me, he would certainly be banded.
5) Huzurdaddi got is mega attack army spanked by me and quit.

I have only played a few MP games and a majority of the players I have played against have kept deals, given notice, played honorably, and taken their lumps, as I have. To his credit, with the exception of the foul language, continual whining, and single-minded fury, Huzurdaddi played the game well enough for me to learn a bunch. But not enough for me to be sad to see you quit...

[Huzurdaddi]

2) I had discussions with Huzurdaddi before attacking him and we could not come to an arrangement that suited both of us.




Pardon? What kind of spin is this? Your lies make me sick. Honestly they really do.

[Gandalf Parker]

This conversation is getting dangerously close to serving no purpose on the forum. Lets all reread the subject of this thread and try to get back to it.

[deccan]

Peter Ebbesen said:
Now, I've been watching this game with interest to see if anything truly weird would evolve as a result of the rather interesting starting situation [which could lead me to update the scenario, so please provide feedback on that, if you would be so kind], but, alas, one other question really raises its ugly head after reading the Last few pages.



I definitely didn't plan for this map properly and so got rather huge stockfiles of gems after a while. So far the main thing I've seen is that everyone is summoning lots and lots of summonables (have to use up those gems somehow!) I've seen Bane Lords galore, Vine Ogres, lots and lots of banes, Ether Warriors (you don't see those often), firbolgs etc. and all rather well equipped too.


Peter Ebbesen said:
As my knowledge of Dominions 2 MP is limited to smaller scale games with friends, I would like to know whether the level of personal attacks, *****ing (of the "I really mean it, scumbag" rather than the "please meet my propaganda department" variety), low-level vitriol, and immature behaviour shown by some players is typical of larger Dominions 2 MP games? Is quitting because you are losing typical or an aberration?



I think that highly dependent on individuals. This is the first time I've seen this kind of personal vitriol in a game (shame on Huzz) and it's very bad.

More often I've seen people trade insults / threats / misinformation etc. through an explicitly role-played character (read Pasha's hilarious newscasts for example). As Thufir and others have pointed out, doing the same on a personal level is highly undesirable.

As for quitting while you're losing, you do see that sometimes. But strangely, I find that newbies do this less, maybe because they're in it just for the fun of the game and to learn., and so are less concerned with being a "contender" to win the game. It seems to me that veterans (and Huzz is definitely a vet) seem more concerned about winning and being competitive.

For what it's worth, I'd like to point out that Huzz has definitely spread his share of misinformation in this game. My attack on him actually Lasted only about 2 turns, but that hasn't stopped him from including me in his list of nations out to get him for everyone else to see. And he has on one occasion send me an in-game message complaining that he has almost no forces left when I first attacked him, when my scouts reported a significant force of 500+ undead quite near me (though maybe most of it was poor quality stuff).

I don't think that misinformation / lies is a bad thing in of itself. It should be properly a part of any strategy game after all. I expect it of others, and I expect others to expect it of me. But it should be clear that such things should be game-related only and should not be personal.

[Peter Ebbesen]

deccan said:
I definitely didn't plan for this map properly and so got rather huge stockfiles of gems after a while. So far the main thing I've seen is that everyone is summoning lots and lots of summonables (have to use up those gems somehow!) I've seen Bane Lords galore, Vine Ogres, lots and lots of banes, Ether Warriors (you don't see those often), firbolgs etc. and all rather well equipped too.



I have to admit that I was especially interested in seing how Ermor turned out, as they have one of the best sets of sites allocated to them, but are surrounded by some really tough nuts to crack. Ermor starts with a construction 20, a conjuration 20, and a Thaumaturgy 40 site, as well as a free-bane site, the Wraith Lord Beyond Reproach, and a starting gem income of 29 death gems per turn on normal settings as either undead variant. Ah, well, being undead leaves no rest for the wicked: All your neighbours want to kill you before your dominion reaches critical mass, and with good cause. Might be a good setup to play living Ermor on, though.

[Yossar]

Huzurdaddi said:
And and Mictlain piling on at the end ... well ... that's pretty classless as well.

Sorry Yossar, but it is.



The only time there was a decent drop in your troops was the one attack I made against your big army (unless someone else made you have huge losses that round). And there was never a serious drop in your number of provinces (even after you went AI, you're still tied with me for first). My attack was nothing that Marignon couldn't have made with a bunch of holy pyre casters and some fodder (was Marignon allied against you?). That implied to me that this "classless alliance" against you was largely ineffective. Maybe that wasn't true, but from the graphs, that was my take on it. You had just run over Ulm like he was nothing and I felt that you were clearly my biggest threat. I'm allied with most of my neighbors, so I cut you down a bit. See it as classless if you want, but if I'm playing to win it was the right move. I'm not playing to let you win, just as you weren't playing to let Ulm win. Was your running over Ulm classless? The only one I am cutting some slack is Jotun, and that's because even though he killed my Ice Devil, he's admitted to being a harmless newbie and I believe him.

Edit: I guess my take is this. If I had premeditated from the start to ally with everyone to take out Ermor, that would be a bit classless. But I was just making a move against who I thought was my biggest threat, so I don't see it as anything out of the ordinary. I didn't go out of my way to destroy you, and doing so didn't hurt me at all. It was just a good, tactical move. I know you don't like it, but we didn't have any prior agreement, so getting angry about it is a bit extreme.

[deccan]

Peter Ebbesen said:
I have to admit that I was especially interested in seing how Ermor turned out, as they have one of the best sets of sites allocated to them, but are surrounded by some really tough nuts to crack.



Actually Ermor is far from being a lost cause IMHO. They still have the biggest army and gem income, are tied for most provinces, have respectable research and income.

And it's not quite true that everyone is ganging up on Ermor. Ulm is almost dead being killed by Ermor I think. Marignon is also fighting Tien Chi and Pangaea at the same time etc. And I haven't been fighting Ermor for a long while now and I'm not strategically well positioned to fight him anyway.

It's a shame that Huz decided to go AI without at least trying to find a sub to play his position. Having Ermor controlled by an AI would make the game a lot less fun IMHO.

[deccan]

Yossar said:
You had just run over Ulm like he was nothing and I felt that you were clearly my biggest threat.



Seems to me that with Ermor now AI, Mictlan is now far and away the biggest threat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Please don't hurt me, I'm only a middling minor power. *Ducks for cover and waves newbie flag.*

[Huzurdaddi]

I found Ermor to be a very good nation.

The sites are very nice. The bane site is excellent for early expansion. However given Ermor's natural ability for expansion it helps but is not necessary for Ermor's success.

The conjuration and construction sites are very good for ermor. I did not find much use for the Thaumaturgy site. If the game had progressed I planned on using it for GoR to Tartarians, but the game never got that far for me.

Ermor is slightly hampered in the research game at that start since they can not summon as many researchers per turn ( 1.5 / turn ) as other nations can buy mages. To rectify this I went for spectres before I went for anything else. Spectres more than double your research / gem due to the conjuration bonus.

I think that Ermor desperatly covets the Vanhiem's conjuration 50 site and Pangea's 50 Enchantment site ( sadly the Atlantis Version is underwater and many of the spells you would want to cast can not be cast there ).



All your neighbours want to kill you before your dominion reaches critical mass




I'll be honest I have never seen this happen. I'm not 100% sure as to how the rules wrt. dominion flowing though other people's provinces work.



For what it's worth, I'd like to point out that Huzz has definitely spread his share of misinformation in this game.




Deccan that's incorrect. I named you as one of the people who was attacking me when you attacked. I never said anything about you after you bargined for peace. And further more those "troops" on your border were ( I would guestimate ) 95% dispossessed spirits which were used for pillaging.

[Peter Ebbesen]

Peter Ebbesen said:
All your neighbours want to kill you before your dominion reaches critical mass





Huzurdaddi said:
I'll be honest I have never seen this happen. I'm not 100% sure as to how the rules wrt. dominion flowing though other people's provinces work.



I have... Playing Ermor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

It is terrifying to the opposition (according to reliable information from said opposition after the game). Once your dominion builds up to 10 in each core area, it starts spreading like there is no tomorrow unless your enemies have as high a dominion (unlikely, but not impossible, until late game since Ermor usually have a much higher dominion pretender than most other nations) or are preaching like mad (which they will be). They can hold your dominion at bay with preaching, but as soon as you launch an offensive and clear an area of priests for a few rounds, their local dominion will be crushed and the population will soon follow. If timed with raiding to destroy temples in the rear, you will severely restrict their ability to push domain back at you, and even if you have to retreat from your offensive (which, quite possibly, were part of your original plan), you may have managed to destroy a province for gold purposes.

The Lich Queen is an excellent pretender for domain warfare and thematic to boot.

This works best on non-wraparound maps if Ermor can secure an area leading up to a map border (giving you a safe domain-side)

...And is wholly dependent on the oppositions' starting domain. Did all your neighbours start with dominion 8-9? Or do they have substantially more temples than you (each)? Then forget about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[baboune]

Good day all,

I am having all sorts of problem with this specific dominions 2 game. Let me try to describe it.

I have no problem connecting to the game and playing my turn. When I try to "End turn", it freezes and I get a "connection to server is broken". So far, it could be normal, so I relaunch dom2 and connect to the server, enter my password, then it freezes again, and I get a "connection to server is broken". I.E. I can not upload my turn.

Strangely it seems I have less problems when I do this in the morning (here in Montreal, Canada). If I try to upload my turn around 8-9AM, then the upload gets thru to the host.

I am in two other MP games, and while I sometimes have connection issues, it is nothing like this one.

Any ideas?

[baboune]

I am starting to worry that at some point this gimmick will stop working and that I wont be able to play.

Also I spend more time trying to upload my turn than actually playing.

[Soapyfrog]

Anybody else having connection problems?

BTW, I have noticed that if your internet connection (or I guess, the internet connection serving my server)hiccups while you are doing your turn, you will get this behaviour. Fortunately becuase you hit "end turn" you still have your turn file with all your moves...

[Daynarr]

baboune said:
Good day all,

I am having all sorts of problem with this specific dominions 2 game. Let me try to describe it.

I have no problem connecting to the game and playing my turn. When I try to "End turn", it freezes and I get a "connection to server is broken". So far, it could be normal, so I relaunch dom2 and connect to the server, enter my password, then it freezes again, and I get a "connection to server is broken". I.E. I can not upload my turn.

Strangely it seems I have less problems when I do this in the morning (here in Montreal, Canada). If I try to upload my turn around 8-9AM, then the upload gets thru to the host.

I am in two other MP games, and while I sometimes have connection issues, it is nothing like this one.

Any ideas?



What sort of connection and what OS do you have? (Windows XP?).

Edit: NM, I'll post this question in another thread.

Edit NO2: Since you already answered it, I'll just try to solve it here.

[baboune]

ADSL thru a router + windows XP.

I had no problem previously. It started with that game.

[Daynarr]

baboune said:
ADSL thru a router + windows XP.

I had no problem previously. It started with that game.



Ok, try this. Go to start-connect to-show all connections. Now right-click on connection you are using (for me it's local area connection since I have cable), then select repair connection (you can close that window afterwards).

Now try to connect and see if you can upload your turn. It should be saved so you won't need to do the whole turn again, but check it just in case.

[baboune]

Actually I am wondering if it could not be port throttling ?
(limiting speeds on certain ports used on file sharing software, like Kazaa, winMX, etc...), that would explain why I can upload at soem hours and not at night.

[Soapyfrog]

I think its the connection hiccuping. I have this problem occur occasionally myself, in the evenings. I think it is the cable provider (Videotron) that is at fault...

Since the server is in my home and uses that connection, that could explain why sometimes you are disconnected.

I am not sure why you have continued problems though. For me it is a one time thing, I reconnect and I am ok.

[baboune]

Changed MTU setting for router, it seems to fix the problem.

[anatoli11]

I have to go away at short notice Early Wednesday until Friday afternoon - I am hoping you can hold the game until then.

Sorry, Thanks

[Yossar]

I have to go away Thursday until Tuesday. I'm looking for a sub but haven't found one yet. I don't particularly want to hold up the game, and I'd be fine with staling those turns as long as nobody attacked me. So anything is fine with me, I guess.

[Soapyfrog]

Yeah unless there are serious objections I think thatd be ok.

[Soapyfrog]

er that is fine to Anatoli11, um not sure what to do about you Yossar, I guess if you are ok with staling a bit, then that should be ok, especially since you will be missing less turns due tot he super long wednesday-friday turn.

[Soapyfrog]

This game turn will be extended to Friday midnight (EST), but I will leave quickhost on.

[Yossar]

I believe Cedric, who was playing Ulm, will be subbing for me, at least until I get back. Hope that works out ok.

[Soapyfrog]

Cool

[Bluebird]

I am away over the weekend. I will be back on monday morning CET. I don't have a problem with skipping a turn, but it would be nice if nobody would attack me during that time ;-)

Bluebird

[deccan]

Bluebird said:
I am away over the weekend. I will be back on monday morning CET. I don't have a problem with skipping a turn, but it would be nice if nobody would attack me during that time ;-)




Well, I'm sure AI Ermor will attack you but maybe you don't mind that.

[Nappa]

I'm having trouble getting to the server. Also, can we switch to 48 quickhost now that the turns are taking so long?

[Soapyfrog]

Sorry server crashed this morning sometime. It's back up now, and I have switched to 48H quickhost.