The Star Trek Mod - v1.9.7.5 (Oct 07)

[Ragnarok-X]

Oh and btw i have a minor complain about the current mod :p I think ships move TOO slow. I agree in the Last major Version ships were to fast (i.e. Versions using the "old" propulsion system), but now they are too slow. All kind of ships, weither they be scouts, colonizers or combat vessels move at the same speed, early on with speed 2. I think it should be 2/3/4 respectivly. In addition the only technology which provides faster stuff is to expensive to research and has to little benefit. I strongly suggest making ships early on more faster, 50%+ and to decrease the cost for warp technology.

Just my 2 ct though !

[Atrocities]

Web Site has been updated once again. - A sincere thank you to David Gervais for all of his help.

For the Record

Please read the first post in this thread for links to previous Versions, if applicable, or important news.

Thanks

[Atrocities]

Ragnarok-X said:
Oh and btw i have a minor complain about the current mod :p I think ships move TOO slow. I agree in the Last major Version ships were to fast (i.e. Versions using the "old" propulsion system), but now they are too slow. All kind of ships, weither they be scouts, colonizers or combat vessels move at the same speed, early on with speed 2. I think it should be 2/3/4 respectivly. In addition the only technology which provides faster stuff is to expensive to research and has to little benefit. I strongly suggest making ships early on more faster, 50%+ and to decrease the cost for warp technology.

Just my 2 ct though !



The object of having slow ships in the beginning of the game is to compel you to research faster engine designs. In early days of Trek, they were limited to warp 1. It took them nearly 100 years to obtain warp 5 ships, and another 100 years to get warp 9 ships. In STNG they were just beginning to understand Transwarp engines.

The official limit to warp engines is warp 10. To obtain the feel and limitations of a War Drive system, we experimented with many propulsion systems and found the current system to meet or exceed our needs.

If you want an extra movement in the game, choose propulsion experts as a racial trait. Or start the game with medium tech.

As for the cost, you can choose one of the Research Racial Traits now. (Technology does not come cheaply in the world of Star Trek. By having the costs were they are, it forces the player to prioritize his research objectives and colony priorities.)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Timstone]

Just a nice site to read something about the warp factors.

Warp Factors (http://www.keele.ac.uk/socs/ks02/interest/startrek/sttech.html)

[Atrocities]

Timstone said:
Just a nice site to read something about the warp factors.

Warp Factors (http://www.keele.ac.uk/socs/ks02/interest/startrek/sttech.html)



Now simulate it in SEIV and win a gold star.

[Timstone]

Hehe, now that's a nice challenge.
I really enjoy these kind of stuff to read, although they aren't very deepely rooted in the real world (hence the name science fiction...) and as an engineer I deal only in facts.
Okay, back to the order of the day... playing Tyrian 2000! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

It is a good site for info, thanks for posting it, and what is Tyrian 2000?

[Ragnarok-X]

Heh i would like to choose propulsion experts or the new research trait, but im reffering to the Startrek MOD final game which has been long started. Anyways, i guess i will just try to research faster engines (then again its high tech cost if im right)

[Ragnarok-X]

Oh, and Tyrion 2000 is some kind of old arcade-scroll-shooter. Something like Xenon and Raptor, if you know those. Its actually pretty fun these times.

[Timstone]

Yup, Tyrian is THE BEST top-scrolling shooter in existence. It's from 1999 and it still kicks ***! I've played it so many times I can dream all the levels. It was the first game I bought via internet. I saw it on the net at my friends house and ordered it the next day.

The equations used on the site are valid, they are real equations (the names used for them and the units used in them), but I doubt they will work when we get this far. It would be nice if the equations produced by fans from Star Trek would work in reality. Talking about fiction...

[Atrocities]

Ragnarok-X said:
Heh i would like to choose propulsion experts or the new research trait, but im reffering to the Startrek MOD final game which has been long started. Anyways, i guess i will just try to research faster engines (then again its high tech cost if im right)



I often research physics 1, Warp Prop, Propulsion, Beam Weapons, Race Ship Construction, and resupply. I figure that it will take a player a few turns to find me so I do not worry to much about the minds until around turn 40 or so.

I keep Warp Prop in the research que until I have at lease warp 5. I can often get this by turn 30 or so. (Note for our game, I already have it. )

[Aiken]

Atrocities said:
I keep Warp Prop in the research que until I have at lease warp 5. I can often get this by turn 30 or so. (Note for our game, I already have it. )

Really? Are you talking about Final STM mod game? It's a high tech cost game. Warp Tech 5 requires 2'700'000 total research points to spend. I can hardly imagine you have so much RP by turn 25.
It was a nice try, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Misinformation rocks!

[Renegade 13]

No, I think he's talking about the Star Trek: Quadrants of Conflict game.

[Aiken]

Renegade 13 said:
No, I think he's talking about the Star Trek: Quadrants of Conflict game.

Oh, in this case I apologize to my distrust and lack of respect to your words, AT.

[Atrocities]

No, Aiken is right, we hunters like to brage about our accomplishments.

pssst - system shock 2 guy, next time just agree with me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Aiken]

<conspiratorial tone> ok, sure, I'll play up to you next time. but tsssss...<conspiratorial tone>

AT showed me a screenshot of his research window, and he has an access to Warp Tech 5 indeed. He told that it came from multiple ruins. This is amazing luck! I'd never believe it, but I saw this with my own eyes! I certainly don't want to be his enemy in this game.
His Last post about my rightfulness was a joke, if you don't get it yet.

[Ragnarok-X]

Uh let me get this straigt: Atrocities has access to Warp Technology level 5 in the new created Startrek mod final game, which is at turn 30 or something like that !? I can hardly believe it !

[Atrocities]

Star Trek Mod -= FORUM (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=34) =- at SE.net (http://www.spaceempires.net)

Thank you Fyron for inviting and hosting us.

[Timstone]

I have noticed two strange things, I don't know if these things are intended or bugs.

1) Romulans:
They have a Advanced Plasma Torpedo (skips armor and shields) with a firing rate of 2, the rest of the races has a firing rate of 5. This makes their torps massively more dangerous.

2) Klingons:
I saw them with a maximum cloaking level of 6 and the Romulans (from whom they aquired the cloaking tech in the first palce) have a maximum level of 5. Shouldn't this be the other way around?

[NarfsCompIsBack]

And romulans were the honerable ones in ST:TOS

[Timstone]

Right you are Narf! Power to the Borg and the green-blooded cloaking descendants of the filthy Vulcans!

Now that was a long sentence to shout...

[Atrocities]

Timstone said:
I have noticed two strange things, I don't know if these things are intended or bugs.

1) Romulans:
They have a Advanced Plasma Torpedo (skips armor and shields) with a firing rate of 2, the rest of the races has a firing rate of 5. This makes their torps massively more dangerous.

2) Klingons:
I saw them with a maximum cloaking level of 6 and the Romulans (from whom they aquired the cloaking tech in the first palce) have a maximum level of 5. Shouldn't this be the other way around?



The way things should be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I have explained both of these before. In STNG and DS9 they established that they could detect Romulan cloaking devices, while not detecting Klingons. Romulans have always had better plasma torpedoes then the other races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Timstone]

Alright. I just started following this thread since yesterday. That was the first time I had time to try out the Star Trek mod.
Excellent work btw. Although I expected more of the Borg. I really, really like the buildings and components for 8472. They are downright cool.

I think I'll go ahead and play some with those greenblooded Romulans. I like torps just as much as they do, so AI: "Fear my torps!!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Atrocities]

I should add a new trait, Evil Empire. This would give any empire that uses it, super mounts to make them uber powerful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

<font color="red"> 500 + DOWNLOADS </font>
I think we have a block buster here folks!.

[Timstone]

Congrats AT!
Well done, I can't imagine a better testimony to your modding abilities.
Together with the pics David made for you, I think you're pretty close to godhood. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Atrocities]

I was once a God, but got fired for flerting with the bosses daughter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Satan hired me, but I freed the damned so he let me go. So here I am now.

[Timstone]

It's a rough life as a god, isn't it?

[Aiken]

If you was a God, who was your Boss then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[David E. Gervais]

aiken said:
If you was a God, who was your Boss then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif



hmmm, the "God-Father"? well, it does make a tiny bit of sense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

My first atempt at a STNG ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif It simply cannot be done. Man this is ugly.

http://www.astmod.com/design/entd.PNGhttp://www.astmod.com/design/entdm.PNGhttp://www.astmod.com/design/neb.PNGhttp://www.astmod.com/design/nebm.PNG
http://www.astmod.com/design/galx.PNGhttp://www.astmod.com/design/galxm.PNGhttp://www.astmod.com/design/amb.PNGhttp://www.astmod.com/design/ambm.PNG

[Timstone]

Hmm... ugly? No man, they're good actually. Maybe a little bit too light, but certainly in the right direction.

[Atrocities]

Thanks. I do need help with the textures. I really liked the ships CK did and was trying to duplicate the look and feel but with DOGA I am dramatically limited.

These "first" drafts took me about a hour to do. If I get the urge, and can brainstorm on it, I hope to add more detail, find a great texture, and finish the set.

I really want all the ships in the STM to be privately created by fans of SEIV so that we can call it our own.

Any ways I just wanted to see if I could make them, and the more I look at them, the more I cringe. They may not be bad, but they could be a hell of a lot better. (Too bad CK lost his HD)

[Kanarg]

I came on to the form specifically because of the "scan line index out of range" error for the same weapons as you mentioned. I have been using Version 1.9.0.7 I did not know there was a new Version - I will go get it now. I did learn that the error message is associated with images not loading properly.

[Kanarg]

I completely recreated the folder for Version 1.9.0.9 and I still have the same problem.

[Fyron]

You need to install the Image Mod:

http://imagemod.spaceempires.net/

[NarfsCompIsBack]

And hello to you too.

[Atrocities]

I tell them to read the INSTALLATION file and other documents but NO one ever does. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[msnevil]

I don't know if anybody wants this. But I spliced the old SEIII sounds with the SEIV Gold sounds. And Then added Tampa's sound mod into the mix. Then Assigned all the new sounds into components.txt

Basic. Every weapon that Atrocities added to the game has a different sound now. (Total sound ='s 179)

So each "race tech" sounds unique. No more anti-proton sounds for every race.

Tis my humble offering to Atrocities God of War. (took about 8 hours.)Or anybody else that wants it. (Credits to shrapnel SEIII and tampa, of course.)

(Umm, why is plasma torpedoes listed as a weapon type = direct fire, and weapon display = seeker? This leads to a invisible missle that instantly hits\misses.

Shouldn't it be either a very fast seeker, or a Torp?)

[Atrocities]

Beleive me that is a great idea, and I would love to do it, but I am a very lazy bastard. Do you have a link to Tamps sound pack?

[msnevil]

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&amp;d_op=getit&amp;lid=391

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Tampa link above.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
???

I already moded Tampa's sound into your mod. Along with SEIII.

So every weapon now has a different sound.

28mb's. worth. I just need a host. Or give me a day, and I will find a host myself. After I get some sleep.

[Atrocities]

Contact Fyron, perhpas he could host, or upload the file here At shrapanel.

[Fyron]

Perhaps you could separate out the "new" sounds (such as SE3 sounds, but not Tampa Gamer sound pack, as I already have that) and submit them to the Sound Pack which is currently being developed? This would be the best solution IMO.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=UBB23&amp;Number=181285

[msnevil]

The seiii sounds were ones included with the seiv regular game. (if the information is true?)

What I did was use the ones already available to the SEIV game owners via mods. (So that the only sounds required were ones already available.)

I have also already named every sound.wav corresponding to the current weapon. exp. phased energy cannon.wav, Phaser.wav.

So its pretty much impossible to "restore" the old default seiv regular sounds.

If you want the sounds as a temporary sound theme. (before the sound mod comes out.) Let me know. I was hoping to help contribute to the mod. (ie do my part.) If not, oh well.

[DarkHorse]

I'm on turn 160-something of a solo game, and none of the AI races seem to have researched past 300kt frigate-type ships. Is this normal? I haven't been particularly in a rush to research ships, but still I have 800kt Attack Cruisers; needless to say I am laying waste to them all.

[Atrocities]

DarkHorse said:
I'm on turn 160-something of a solo game, and none of the AI races seem to have researched past 300kt frigate-type ships. Is this normal? I haven't been particularly in a rush to research ships, but still I have 800kt Attack Cruisers; needless to say I am laying waste to them all.



What settings did you use for the AI? If you gave then no AI bonus then yes it is normal.

[DarkHorse]

Atrocities said:

What settings did you use for the AI? If you gave then no AI bonus then yes it is normal.



I'll have to check when I get home. I thought I took the recommended settings, but I may have missed/forgotten something. Boy that would suck, having to start all over again because I screwed up the settings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[Atrocities]

DO this, Play a turn as each of the empires and make them research what you need them too.

I will run a few tests and see what the problem is. In all of my games, with the recommended settings, the AI always had the edge.

The problem also might be more than what I am thinking. I might have to work on the construction files and such. And that is something I know nothing about.

[AMF]

Hey AT,

I was looking over the new mod site, thinking about trying a solitaire game with it, and I had a question: I would like to use the map that was put together (I forget by whom) as a "historically accurate" map (It's the same one we use in the "Quadrants of Conflict" game) - is that map still compatible with the latest Version if I wanted to play with the races it includes?

My primary concern is that the Borg now appear to be treated as monsters only rather than as a race - meaning that I figure I'll have a hard time getting them in accurately.

Thanks,

Alarik

Ps: a most excellent mod, by the way. The QConflict game is by far the most invested I've ever been in a SE4 game...

[Atrocities]

alarikf said:
Hey AT,

I was looking over the new mod site, thinking about trying a solitaire game with it, and I had a question: I would like to use the map that was put together (I forget by whom) as a "historically accurate" map (It's the same one we use in the "Quadrants of Conflict" game) - is that map still compatible with the latest Version if I wanted to play with the races it includes?

My primary concern is that the Borg now appear to be treated as monsters only rather than as a race - meaning that I figure I'll have a hard time getting them in accurately.

Thanks,

Alarik

Ps: a most excellent mod, by the way. The QConflict game is by far the most invested I've ever been in a SE4 game...



I really do not know about the map. I guess the best option would be to ask Fyron or someone who might know. You can try and load it with the Mod Launcher/Map edit option. See if it loads and if everything is in the right place. I would hope that it would work without problems. Check the revsion historys to see if I made any changes to the files that might effect the map. I don't recall doing so.

And thanks for the nice works about the mod. I am happy that so many people are enjoying it.

[DarkHorse]

DarkHorse said:

Atrocities said:

What settings did you use for the AI? If you gave then no AI bonus then yes it is normal.



I'll have to check when I get home. I thought I took the recommended settings, but I may have missed/forgotten something. Boy that would suck, having to start all over again because I screwed up the settings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif



Uh oh. On a related note, I just read through the Before You Play.txt file again and noticed the PBW Advanced Research Trait for the first time. I'm afraid to ask, but is everyone but me using this trait in the STM Final PBW game? If so, I'm afraid the Breen are in for a rough time, because I didn't alter the stock Advanced Traits section when I created my race. D'oh! I guess we're the galactic bumpkins for this game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif RTFM!

[Atrocities]

I sent you a PM about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Don't worry.

[DarkHorse]

Atrocities said:
I sent you a PM about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Don't worry.



And suddenly the light bulb came on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

<font color="brown">672 </font> downloads of this mod since released on 11-14-2004. I am stunned. I did not think that many poeple even played SE IV any more.

The Federation ship sets are nearly finished. Visit www.astmod.com (http://www.astmod.com) to see them.

[Fyron]

Better add these numbers from the downloads from SE.net:

Star Trek Mod 1.9.0.0: 48 downloads
Star Trek Mod 1.9.0.2 Patch: 42 downloads

Hmm... don't have the 1.9.0.9 patch available.

The link to this file on the STM site points to the 1.9.0.7 Version:

STM 1.9.0.9
Only AI &amp; Data Files

[Atrocities]

Fixed. Thanks Fyron.

[BlackRose]

Hi Again Atrocities and Gang /threads/images/graemlins/Smile.gif

Been in SEIV Hibernation for a long time (cept the pbw game Quad of Conflict which is very fun !!)

The Reason for this is I just couldnt bring myself to keep starting over and over waiting for the *Final* Version /threads/images/graemlins/Smile.gif

Well here i am, 27 revision sets later (last I played was 1.72) and I'm loving all the work (again) thats been put into it.

Great job with the inclusion of placeble minors (what no bajorans!!).

Love the whole balancing thing and i *love* the new warp engine/speed system.

But i'm definately noticing a problem, this is the 5th game i've started with 1.909 and the AI is having a serious problem (a: reseaching past their ship 2 lvls) and b: building combat ships above escort size.

I've done low tech/low cost (entire reccomended settings).

high tech/high cost (anyone notice how much slower this makes the game??)

and just recently med tech/med cost and starting at medium technology (lvl 4 in race ship construction) but they are still building only escorts/scouts. (and seem to have it as a very low priority to continue research)

Though the borg have researched to T6 in Racial Ship Construction but they have over 800 ships and none of them (except satellite layers) are above sphere size.

Anyhow i'm sure its a minor fix /threads/images/graemlins/Smile.gif

Great to see all the improvements /threads/images/graemlins/Smile.gif

[Atrocities]

The problem is that the AI research file. They need to be optimized for the each AI race. I have just not had the time or interest in doing so.

So what I now recommend, and will be included in the next update, is to manually set the AI races to use the Advance Racial traid PBW Advanced Research, in addition to the recommended settings of the mod.

I will admit that this is a cheap fix, but until I have time to optimize the research files, it is the best I can offer.

I will post new 5k EMP files soon for each of the major races. People can download them and install them as they wish. They will be included in the next update that is scheduled for release on Fed 28th, 05. The update will not, hopefully, effect saved games. But who knows for sure.

Here is what I have on it so far:



Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.0

1. Fixed Cost error in Robo - Miners II. It is now the same cost as Robo - Miners I &amp; III
2. Changed Code for all Propulsion Mounts to PM1, PM2, etc.
3. Changed Propulsion Mount 7 from Vehicle Size Minimum 1500 to 2000.
4. Added Propulsion Mount 6 for vehicle Size Min/Max of 1501 to 1999 (For Queens Cube)
5. Added Resource Ship to vehicle Size file. (Custom Hull Size for Supply Replicator Component and mount)
6. Added Supply Replicator I - III
7. Added Supply Mount (SUPM) for use with Supply Replicator I - III and Resource Ship.
8. Changed Intro image to Custom Image by David Gervais. (Birds Of Prey)
9. Changed Telekinetic Torpedo I - III Family from 2003 to 2113.
10. Changed Supply useage for warp core, Borg Warp Core, and Organic War Drive VI - X (Lowered)
11. Changed Federation Explorer Class Bitmap image from Escort to Scout
12. Changed Added new Federation ship set by Atrocities
13 Changed Added new DS9 ship set by Atrocities
14. Changed Added new TMP (Trek Motion Pictures) ship set by Atrocities.

[Atrocities]

BlackRose said:
Hi Again Atrocities and Gang /threads/images/graemlins/Smile.gif

Great job with the inclusion of placeble minors (what no bajorans!!).




Bajorian 008 (neutral race)

[Atrocities]

Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.0

1. Fixed Cost error in Robo - Miners II. It is now the same cost as Robo - Miners I &amp; III
2. Changed Code for all Propulsion Mounts to PM1, PM2, etc.
3. Changed Propulsion Mount 7 from Vehicle Size Minimum 1500 to 2000.
4. Added Propulsion Mount 6 for vehicle Size Min/Max of 1501 to 1999 (For Queens Cube)
5. Added Resource Ship to vehicle Size file. (Custom Hull Size for Supply Replicator Component and mount)
6. Added Supply Replicator I - III
7. Added Supply Mount (SUPM) for use with Supply Replicator I - III and Resource Ship.
8. Changed Intro image to Custom Image by David Gervais. (Birds Of Prey)
9. Changed Telekinetic Torpedo I - III Family from 2003 to 2113.
10. Changed Supply useage for warp core, Borg Warp Core, and Organic War Drive VI - X (Lowered)
11. Changed Federation Explorer Class Bitmap image from Escort to Scout
12. Changed Added new Federation ship set by Atrocities
13. Changed Added new DS9 ship set by Atrocities
14. Changed Added new TMP (Trek Motion Pictures) ship set by Atrocities.
15. Changed Organized shuttles into Shuttle I - V.
16. Changed Small Warp Core Tech Area Req from 3 to 1 - Tech Area Req 1 = Shuttle 1 (Shuttle III hull size)
17. Changed Description of Small Warp Core.
18. Changed Added restriction of Two Per Vehicle to Shuttle Phaser
19. Changed All Small Engines names to Shuttle Impusle Engine I - IV
20. Changed Dropped Tech Area req Propulsion from Shuttle Impulse Engine I - IV
21. Changed Description of Shuttle Impuse Engine I - IV
22. Changed Raised shuttle technology level from 3 to 4.
23. Changed Dropped Tech Requirement Construction 1 from Shuttle Technology
24. Changed Missile weapons Max Level from 9 to 15. AI should now research all missile weapons.
25. Changed Replaced Andorian Neutral Race with the Lurians
26. Changed Replaced Vulcan Neutral Race with the Talosians
27. Added Lurian and Talosian design names
28. Replaced Both the Lurian and Talosian neutral ship sets
29. Changed Updated all EMP files.

[AMF]

Hey AT,

Let me second what BlkRose said, for the umpteenth time: it's quite simply the best mod I have ever played. I love the QConflict game et al. Great job!

So, I haven't played past the version in use in the QConflict game, so my next suggestin may be OBE, but still wanted to mention it: I was noticing in the QConflict game that there are ringworld/sphereworld construction techs. I would humbly suggest that these should be a borg racial tech - I can't envision any of the other races building such things really, even though they encountered them in the series.

Also, the construction of planets using Genesis devices seem s a bit problematic to me as well. I thought the Genesis device didn't work in the end. So I would think either canx it, OR, perhaps even better, make it a fed technology that is really really expensive...so that other races would have a strong motivation to steal the genesis ship - and hence open up the path for the same thing that happened in ST2:TWOK...

Just my two cents...I understand that having them in makes sense as well, but wanted to put for th my opinion.

Thanks again for an amazing mod!

Alarik

[Atrocities]

Thanks for the suggestions. I wrestled with the SW/RW matter and in the end decided that an advanced race, no matter its origins, would eventually develop such technology. The same concept as in Traswarp drive. As for the Genesis Torpedoes, well it was an easy way to solve the create a planet issue. Again, technology was prefected.

Read the back story for the mod. Keep in mind that the only way to explain a lot of the differances between Star Trek and Space Empires was to do so creatively. This mod takes place in the Space Empires Universe, therefore its rules, physics, and realities are what govern the Star Trek Mod, not the other way around. When in Rome.....

[BlackRose]

wah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

No no, (if possible) I'm having so much fun, I set up the Quadrants map and placed the Vulcans in Vulcan and the Andorians in Andoria, and the feds partnered with each and yet the Vulcans and Andorians stayed at war! Its perfect!!! Dont replace them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Thats what I meant about the Bajorans, ie placing them like I could with the Andorians and Vulcans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fyron]

test post

[pathfinder]

AT: uhm.....minor quibble. Made sure I had latest component pack for image mod and the pic for warp nacelle is missing. the component.txt file calls for image "888" but there is none.

[Randallw]

I don't think thats a STmod problem. I got the latest image mod to play Final Frontier 3, and I have that image.

[pathfinder]

Randallw said:
I don't think thats a STmod problem. I got the latest image mod to play Final Frontier 3, and I have that image.



Yep, I d'l'd a different version of the component pak from IF's site and it showed up. Thanks!

Funny, both are labeled v 33?!

[Atrocities]

pathfinder said:
AT: uhm.....minor quibble. Made sure I had latest component pack for image mod and the pic for warp nacelle is missing. the component.txt file calls for image "888" but there is none.



That component is the warp nacelle. I do not know why SJ does not have it in the latest version of the image mod. Download an older version and see use its master component.bmp image.

There was a problem with it having a white strip to one side, and he said he fixed it. Perhaps that is what caused the problem.

[BlackRose]

Resistance is futile! Just commenting on how my game is shaping up, may I say that the AI is performing brilliantly, I can imagine the havoc they'd wreak if they actually used the ships up from escort they designed (they have tonnes of schematics, they just dont build them). All in all i'm very impressed with how they handle themselves (cept for the size thing).

A comment on the Borg AI which is trully frightening, except for one small hang up! (at least with the escort thing). If the Borg encounter satelites they are stopped dead in their tracks.

In my game the borg are absolute monsters accounting for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th scores combined, but whats holding these fiends back you ask? about 2 dozen Hirogen satelites palced strategically in the Delta Quadrant. At each sateleite area (about 6 sats per) are a few hundred borg vessels, all with wpns that cant hit sats http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

But i love the changes Atrocities, and if you could *plz* consider keeping the Andorians and Vulcans as a selectable race in your next version, placing them on maps is just to cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

I checked the latest version of the Component pack, and the component 888 is there and is in the master component.bmp list as well. I suggest updating.

[pathfinder]

Atrocities said:
I checked the latest version of the Component pack, and the component 888 is there and is in the master component.bmp list as well. I suggest updating.



I did. The version located at IF's site had the image.


About the AI only building escorts: Ran into the same problem in B5. Solution: put latest design on top in designcreation.txt. EG, Romulan put the dreadnought at the top and then others in decending order.

I'll do that tonight and see if it fixes the problem.

[Timstone]

Da Path has returned!
Long time no see, how are you Pathfinder?

[pathfinder]

Timstone said:
Da Path has returned!
Long time no see, how are you Pathfinder?



Fine, you?

[Atrocities]

Thanks Pathfinder for the info. I am experimenting with that now and it seems to work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Fyron also suggested it over at the mod works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Timstone]

Yeah, I'm okay. I very busy graduating... again. This time for a slightly better title.
I take it you've checked the B5 thread recently? I hope you've just as eager for this evolution of the mod as I am.

Edit:
Sorry for this little bit of thread-hacking...

[Atrocities]

No problem, the B5 mod is a worthy reason to thread hack IMHO. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

<font color="brown">735 </font> downloads to date for the 1.9.0.0 version.

I need beta testers for the next version. Go to the Star Trek Mod forum at SE.net and sign up.

[Timstone]

Thanks AT for the all clear for hacking this thread... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[BlackRose]

pathfinder said:
About the AI only building escorts: Ran into the same problem in B5. Solution: put latest design on top in designcreation.txt. EG, Romulan put the dreadnought at the top and then others in decending order.




works like a charm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif now to go get slaughtered by the ai http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

[Atrocities]

The swap over was made. I just need volunteers to test it. Go sign up over at SE.net.

[Imperial]

Will you be realeasing the new federation shipsets prior to the release of the latest mod version? Those ships are amazing!!

[BlackRose]

I swapped em on my own http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Few things i've identified, the borg *may* have a problem with their attack base setting, they are using Borg Fusion Cubes (3200kt) instead of the bases because of the Design Creation files.

There also a number of things the ai *doesnt* want to research, their special weapons being one of them. All races in my game still have tech five in their race specific energy weapons, and i'm waaaaay into it (borg have all warp tech and all ship sizes researched) but still lvl 5 (which is what they started with) in energy weapons.

AI seems to want to research warp tech all the way to max before raising ship size, that might actually be a good thing with how strong they are (note i gave all the majore ones a 100% research boost for 0 points).

With the change in design creation AI is now building bigger ships.

[pathfinder]

BlackRose said:
I swapped em on my own http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Few things i've identified, the borg *may* have a problem with their attack base setting, they are using Borg Fusion Cubes (3200kt) instead of the bases because of the Design Creation files.

There also a number of things the ai *doesnt* want to research, their special weapons being one of them. All races in my game still have tech five in their race specific energy weapons, and i'm waaaaay into it (borg have all warp tech and all ship sizes researched) but still lvl 5 (which is what they started with) in energy weapons.

AI seems to want to research warp tech all the way to max before raising ship size, that might actually be a good thing with how strong they are (note i gave all the majore ones a 100% research boost for 0 points).

With the change in design creation AI is now building bigger ships.



The research may be limited due to the AI_research.txt may only have certain levels placed in it. I have not looked but that may be the case or possibly a double space somewhere in that AI_research.txt file may prevent any further research at all. Are other high tech items being researched?

Update: I just did a quick check and the Borg only research "Borg energy weapons" to level 5 (of 10 levels available). Also there is only 1 level (level 10) of "Advanced Borg Energy Weapons" in the AI_research.txt file so I am not sure that those weapons would be researched at all.

[Fyron]

Once the AI runs out of things to research in AI_Research.txt, it will start researching technologies semi-randomly. It will never stop researching altogether until there is absolutely nothing else to research.

[pathfinder]

Imperator Fyron said:
Once the AI runs out of things to research in AI_Research.txt, it will start researching technologies semi-randomly. It will never stop researching altogether until there is absolutely nothing else to research.




True but doesn't the AI do better if the research is organized so it gets its 'stuff" earlier?

[Atrocities]

Imperial said:
Will you be realeasing the new federation shipsets prior to the release of the latest mod version? Those ships are amazing!!



The ships will be in the next version. I will instruct people to make back ups of the effected sets just in case they do not like the new sets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

pathfinder said:

Imperator Fyron said:
Once the AI runs out of things to research in AI_Research.txt, it will start researching technologies semi-randomly. It will never stop researching altogether until there is absolutely nothing else to research.




True but doesn't the AI do better if the research is organized so it gets its 'stuff" earlier?



The research files have been reorganized for the new version addressing a few of the before mentioned issues. This is why I need testers for this next version, to help tweak, if possible, and refine the AI settings. Go to SE.net and sign up in the Star Trek Mod forum if your interested in beta testing the next few versions of the mod.

[Atrocities]

Posted fighters and shuttles to the TMP / Federation / and DS9 ship sets. www.astmod.com (http://www.astmod.com) click the (News) tab for links.

[BlackRose]

Looking good AT, though the Fed Juggernought might take some getting used to (the addition to teh saucer makes sense but seems un-federation like). Cant wait to see them ingame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I had a quick question regarding the Dominion Phased Polaron Cannon, and to a lesser exten the Neutrino beam, both (according to description and in actual field tests) dont seem to have any practical use.

The Cannon is a rate 2 wpn that only does 1/2 dmg to shields and does less damage than either the lesser Polaron Cannon or Beam (which both fire at rate 1). It costs more and uses more supplies as well. In actual combat it doesnt really perform very well either, unless i'm using it wrong or their are other uses i'm not aware of.

It doesnt have any targetting bonuses that Polaron Cannon does, ship/sate/drone/planet etc. And even at higher levels its damage yeild is less.

The Neutrino beam is somewhat understandable as it skips armour, but with a rate 2 firing it seems to still be of lesser value than the Polaron Beams or Cannons.

OFC the phased poloron beam is more than understandable and useful, its just the other 2 i'm curious about and how I should use them :0

[Atrocities]

Each race share the same weapon attributes, advantages, and disadvantages. When the weapons system was being developed, that is revised last year, a lot of planning went into it. The origial version of these weapons were deemed to powerful.

Weapons Report (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/ModInfo/STM%20Weapons%20Report.htm) Current

The way it was explained to me was that 1/2 damage to shields is actually quite powerful.

[BlackRose]

ooo someone talked you into balance &gt; diversity, wish i'd been there for that one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

O well if its all the same it doesnt much matter then :S

Still, great mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

It's the "skip armor" damage type that is particularly potent in leaky shield mods... not 1/2 damage to shields.

[BlackRose]

hmmm, looking at the weapons report seems there is still some diversity there, which is good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So how would one effectively use the 1/4 and 1/2 dmg to shields 2x fire rate wpns effectively in combat if there dmg is less than that of the 1x and normal dmg to shield wpns?


I also noted a slight problem in the Borg and 8472 files, it appears neaither use shields on their designs (especially later ship models). THere is a high requirement for armour but in practice the typicial Borg Fusion Cube has on 3 peices of regeneterive armour making it actually very easy to destroy. Also noted that a lot of the later desighs call for less shields than previous designes (all other races). Could be because of the shield skipper weapons, not sure.

[Atrocities]

Perhaps a mount is in order than? What would be a good setting for the mount?

[Atrocities]

A Generic ship set, with slightly different color schemes, has been posted and added to the mod.

The neutral races will use this ship set by default with the exception of Neutral 007 and Neutral 010 which have the same set, but colored differently

Generic Ship Set (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/Pictures/RaceGeneric/Generic.htm)

Also please visit the official Star Trek Mod forum over at www.spaceempires.net (http://www.spaceempires.net)

[pathfinder]

AT: That generic set is darn nice.

[boran_blok]

imho in that shipset the massive and huge carrier should be swapped, the massive one is smaller than the huge one.

[Atrocities]

Boran_blok, your right, They are swapped. I wonder how I managed that?

Thanks Pathfinder. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Fixed the error. Ready to start testing 1.9.1.1

Added the new sets for four of the minor races. Now all shets in the mod are original

[Kanarg]

Just finished a round of 1.9.0.9 and I thought that fighters, and shuttles were two hard for a normal ship to take out.

[Atrocities]

I have noticed this as well. Any Recommendations?

[Captain Kwok]

Decrease the hull defense bonus on fighters and shuttles.

[Ragnarok-X]

That way they will be easier to hit. Then again you could either increase the weapons hit modifer on point defense weapons, or decrease the amount of damage a fighter/shuttle can take. You could also just decrease the firepower of fighter weapons, so they wont be as deadly. Thats about by suggestions.

[Atrocities]

Ok will do guys. And thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Atrocities said:
<font color="red">http://www.astmod.com/startrek/webpage/races_files/comm-badge.gif Offical Star Trek Mod Web Page (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stm.htm)</font> - ALL NEW http://www.astmod.com/startrek/webpage/races_files/comm-badge.gif

Star Trek Mod -= FORUM (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&amp;file=viewforum&amp;f=34) =- at SE.net (http://www.spaceempires.net)

PLEASE READ THE INSTALLATION FILE -= LINK (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/webpage/Installation.htm) =-

Also if you are updating any Version of the Star Trek mod before Version 1.9.0.0 - DO A FRESH INSTALL OF 1.9.0.0 FULL and then update to 1.9.0.9. Updating from any Versions prior to 1.9.0.0 will cause errors and problems.

<font color="blue">If for any reason you get an error that a back ground bmp will not load, download FQM Delux and copy over all of the system images to your base systems folder in your space empires iv directory.</font>

Be sure that you have installed the latest Image Mod Packs (http://imagemod.spaceempires.net/). Planets, Components, Facilities, Events, and Combat or you might get a scan line or other type of error.

735 Downloads from Shrapnels Site and counting. (01-03-2005) (301 and counting from Offical STM website)

<font color="red">12-28-2004</font>
The Last patch of the year.
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - Patch (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=320345)
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - Patch Without Spash Screen (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=320346)
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - PBW Data Files for Update (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STM1909Data.zip)
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - Full Version (Torrent File) (http://kazharii.no-ip.com:6969/)

Web Site (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/download.htm) Revision History (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/RevisionText.txt)

I have posted the back story for the mod if any one is interested in a long read. The Cleansing (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/backstory.html)

Enjoy.

<font color="red"> 12-18-2004 UPDATE</font>
Star Trek Mod Patch v1.9.0.7 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=318393) (Will update any Version from 1.9.0.0 to current.) Players DOWN LOAD THIS ONE.

Star Trek Mod Patch v1.9.0.7 (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/StmPatch1907NG.zip) Ai and Data files only (Contains only AI and data files - no graphics. Will update any Version from 1.9.0.0 to current) - PBW WEB ADMINS USE THIS ONE TO UPDATE PBW

Star Trek Mod Full 1.9.0.7 Data and AI files (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=318618) only no graphics. (FIXED LINK)


<font color="red"> 11-18-2004 UPDATE</font>
STM v1.9.0.2 With Intro 5.0 megs (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=313001)
STM v1.9.0.2 Without Intro 2.5 megs (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=313002)
STM v1.9.0.2 Data and Ai files only. No images 500k (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STM1902DATAUD.zip)



<font color="red">11-14-2004 UPDATE </font>

Star Trek Mod Patch 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311154)With Intro 2.5 megs (New File - Should no longer cause error when being unzipped)
Star Trek Mod 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311055)Without Intro 400k

Part 1 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311309)
Part 2 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311311)

Part 3 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311312)
Part 4 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311314)


<font color="red">11-14-2004 UPDATE </font>

PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OVER EXSISTING STAR TREK MOD FILES. DO A FRESH INSTALL WITH THIS VERSION

The latest Version of the Star Trek Mod can now be downloaded. Please report any bugs or questions to AtrocitiesATgmailDOTcom. Thank you and enjoy.

Star Trek Version 1.9.0.0 Download Link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=310653) 22 Megs (149 downloads so far)

Be sure to update to the latest Versions of the Component and Events packs. SJ Image Mod Site (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/imagemod/)






I would like to get input on what things need addressing for a final update for the Star Trek Mod.

As it stands now, the only suggestions I have are to work on the Romulan AI, adjust the cost of some facilities and components for races like the Breen, 8472 and a few others.

Any suggestions that have to deal with the Ai and or minor tweaks or bugs would be appreciated.

Thanks.





BUMP - for those who have just downloaded the mod in the last month.

[LordAxel]

I'm not sure if i installed it wrong but i get a range check errors in tactical combat when using pulse weapons from any of the races

[Captain Kwok]

Do you have the ImageMod installed?

[LordAxel]

Yes i have the image mod installed. DO i have to have it in the star trek mod directory.
The problem doesnt occur in simulated combat or on other weapons just any races pulse weapons when you go to fire them i get the error and and locks up the game

[Captain Kwok]

No, the ImageMod doesn't need to be setup in the Star Trek mod directory. But you are you sure you have the ImageMod combat pack?

Which version of the mod are you using? I looked into the most current version's data files and couldn't see any problems with the entries themselve.

[Fyron]

If there is a Pictures\Combat folder in the STM folder, delete it.

[LordAxel]

Yeah it was the combat mod i must not have installed that last time i re-installed the game
thanks

[Ed Kolis]

Here's a suggestion for you...
Remove the Self Destruct Devices and give the SDD ability to the Warp Core components. That way, SDD's will not be so powerful, as they'll be vulnerable to heavier engine destroying weapons. And after all, whenever they want to blow up the ship on Star Trek, they always overload the warp core, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Atrocities]

Ed Kolis said:
Here's a suggestion for you...
Remove the Self Destruct Devices and give the SDD ability to the Warp Core components. That way, SDD's will not be so powerful, as they'll be vulnerable to heavier engine destroying weapons. And after all, whenever they want to blow up the ship on Star Trek, they always overload the warp core, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



That sounds likea good idea. A lot of work, but a good idea.

[Atrocities]

[qoute]Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.2 - PENDING

1. Fixed Error in the FQM QuadrantSize file, Sparse Maze Entry.

Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.1

1. Fixed Error in Bynar (Neutral Race 001) General file
2. Changed Description of Self Destruct Device (SDD) Boarding Defense Ability
3. Added New ship sets for Minor Empires


Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.0

1. Fixed Cost error in Robo - Miners II. It is now the same cost as Robo - Miners I &amp; III
2. Changed Code for all Propulsion Mounts to PM1, PM2, etc.
3. Changed Propulsion Mount 7 from Vehicle Size Minimum 1500 to 2000.
4. Added Propulsion Mount 6 for vehicle Size Min/Max of 1501 to 1999 (For Queens Cube)
5. Added Resource Ship to vehicle Size file. (Custom Hull Size for Supply Replicator Component and mount)
6. Added Supply Replicator I - III
7. Added Supply Mount (SUPM) for use with Supply Replicator I - III and Resource Ship.
8. Changed Intro image to Custom Image by David Gervais. (Birds Of Prey)
9. Changed Telekinetic Torpedo I - III Family from 2003 to 2113.
10. Changed Supply useage for warp core, Borg Warp Core, and Organic War Drive VI - X (Lowered)
11. Changed Federation Explorer Class Bitmap image from Escort to Scout
12. Changed Added new Federation ship set by Atrocities
13. Changed Added new DS9 ship set by Atrocities
14. Changed Added new TMP (Trek Motion Pictures) ship set by Atrocities.
15. Changed Organized shuttles into Shuttle I - V.
16. Changed Small Warp Core Tech Area Req from 3 to 1 - Tech Area Req 1 = Shuttle 1 (Shuttle III hull size)
17. Changed Description of Small Warp Core.
18. Changed Added restriction of Two Per Vehicle to Shuttle Phaser
19. Changed All Small Engines names to Shuttle Impusle Engine I - IV
20. Changed Dropped Tech Area req Propulsion from Shuttle Impulse Engine I - IV
21. Changed Description of Shuttle Impuse Engine I - IV
22. Changed Raised shuttle technology level from 3 to 4.
23. Changed Dropped Tech Requirement Construction 1 from Shuttle Technology
24. Changed Missile weapons Max Level from 9 to 15. AI should now research all missile weapons.
25. Changed Replaced Andorian Neutral Race with the Lurians
26. Changed Replaced Vulcan Neutral Race with the Talosians
27. Added Lurian and Talosian design names
28. Replaced Both the Lurian and Talosian neutral ship sets
29. Changed Updated all EMP files.
30. Changed Fixed errors in Events File. (Now in correct order)
31. Changed All Race Defualt AI_DesignCreation files (Reversed order of ship listings)
32. Changed All Race Research files (Re-organized some entries and added Not Connected entries)
33. Changed Added Generic Race ships
34. Changed Added Boarding defense to Self Destruct Device.
35. Changed Update all neutral and minor race emblems.

[Atrocities]

Not to be rude or anything, but if you take the time to download the STAR TREK MOD, please read the included installation file and or any other document that came with the mod. Many questions like "why am I missing planet images?" and "Why can't I see some of the components?" can be answered simply by reading the read-me files.

Also for your convience please read the list below. I update it whenever something needs to be convied about the mod such as missing Stellor images, or combat string violations.

Thanks and enjoy the mod.



Atrocities said:
<font color="red">http://www.astmod.com/startrek/webpage/races_files/comm-badge.gif Offical Star Trek Mod Web Page (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stm.htm)</font> - ALL NEW http://www.astmod.com/startrek/webpage/races_files/comm-badge.gif

Star Trek Mod -= FORUM (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&amp;file=viewforum&amp;f=34) =- at SE.net (http://www.spaceempires.net)

PLEASE READ THE INSTALLATION FILE -= LINK (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/webpage/Installation.htm) =-

Also if you are updating any Version of the Star Trek mod before Version 1.9.0.0 - DO A FRESH INSTALL OF 1.9.0.0 FULL and then update to 1.9.0.9. Updating from any Versions prior to 1.9.0.0 will cause errors and problems.

<font color="blue">If for any reason you get an error that a back ground bmp will not load, download FQM Delux and copy over all of the system images to your base systems folder in your space empires iv directory.</font>

Be sure that you have installed the latest Image Mod Packs (http://imagemod.spaceempires.net/). Planets, Components, Facilities, Events, and Combat or you might get a scan line or other type of error.

735 Downloads from Shrapnels Site and counting. (01-03-2005) (301 and counting from Offical STM website)

<font color="red">12-28-2004</font>
The Last patch of the year.
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - Patch (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=320345)
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - Patch Without Spash Screen (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=320346)
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - PBW Data Files for Update (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STM1909Data.zip)
Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.9 - Full Version (Torrent File) (http://kazharii.no-ip.com:6969/)

Web Site (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/download.htm) Revision History (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/RevisionText.txt)

I have posted the back story for the mod if any one is interested in a long read. The Cleansing (http://www.astmod.com/startrek/backstory.html)

Enjoy.

<font color="red"> 12-18-2004 UPDATE</font>
Star Trek Mod Patch v1.9.0.7 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=318393) (Will update any Version from 1.9.0.0 to current.) Players DOWN LOAD THIS ONE.

Star Trek Mod Patch v1.9.0.7 (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/StmPatch1907NG.zip) Ai and Data files only (Contains only AI and data files - no graphics. Will update any Version from 1.9.0.0 to current) - PBW WEB ADMINS USE THIS ONE TO UPDATE PBW

Star Trek Mod Full 1.9.0.7 Data and AI files (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=318618) only no graphics. (FIXED LINK)


<font color="red"> 11-18-2004 UPDATE</font>
STM v1.9.0.2 With Intro 5.0 megs (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=313001)
STM v1.9.0.2 Without Intro 2.5 megs (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=313002)
STM v1.9.0.2 Data and Ai files only. No images 500k (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STM1902DATAUD.zip)



<font color="red">11-14-2004 UPDATE </font>

Star Trek Mod Patch 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311154)With Intro 2.5 megs (New File - Should no longer cause error when being unzipped)
Star Trek Mod 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311055)Without Intro 400k

Part 1 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311309)
Part 2 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311311)

Part 3 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311312)
Part 4 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311314)


<font color="red">11-14-2004 UPDATE </font>

PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OVER EXSISTING STAR TREK MOD FILES. DO A FRESH INSTALL WITH THIS VERSION

The latest Version of the Star Trek Mod can now be downloaded. Please report any bugs or questions to AtrocitiesATgmailDOTcom. Thank you and enjoy.

Star Trek Version 1.9.0.0 Download Link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=310653) 22 Megs (149 downloads so far)

Be sure to update to the latest Versions of the Component and Events packs. SJ Image Mod Site (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/imagemod/)






I would like to get input on what things need addressing for a final update for the Star Trek Mod.

As it stands now, the only suggestions I have are to work on the Romulan AI, adjust the cost of some facilities and components for races like the Breen, 8472 and a few others.

Any suggestions that have to deal with the Ai and or minor tweaks or bugs would be appreciated.

Thanks.





8 emails this morning, count them, 8!

[geoschmo]

Atrocities said:

8 emails this morning, count them, 8!

Ah, the curse of having a mod that people actually like and play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[boran_blok]

now you know how malfador must feel http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

Poor Aaron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I have a new list idea...... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Samurai99]

Hi,

Is it possible the Star Trek Mod doesn't work with the Map Editor? I keep getting an error message saying something about quadrant types.

Please forgive me if this is covered elsewhere, but I've tried searching the forum and can't find an answer.

[Atrocities]

You need to use the Mod Launcher to open the map editor for the STM or any mod for that matter.

Matrix Mod Launcher Download (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1039630481.zip)

Start the Mod Laucher
Select the Star Trek Mod
Click on the EDIT MAPS button

This will load the Map editor using the MOD FILES. You will have to direct the Sav Map or Load Map to the Mods Map folder though.

Good luck.

[Atrocities]

What would be better? Having the SDD ability added to the warp core and removing the current device, or keep the current SDD with its Security Ability? The security ability allows anti security (Boarding) weapons to destroy the SDD.

[Nodachi]

I say leave it as is. If you add it to the warp core then races like the Borg won't be able to overwhelm it. I would, however, make it a little bit stronger. Right now it is too easy to overwhelm.

[Atrocities]

Hey all, just an update.

The next version release date is coming up soon. It will be a two part update.

Part one will be the data files and replacement neutral ships.

Part two will be only the New Federation and Minor Race ship sets.

I have a few things left to do before posting the mod on the 28th. So stay tuned and please report any bugs you know of ASAP. Thanks.

[Atrocities]

We are down to the gun lap for bug reports. Tuesday the 1st version 1.9.1.2 will be released.

This new version does effect one race, the Breen. I had to change the size of the Breen cloaking device from 10kt to 20kt. Be warned.

For unique updates and such please visit the www.spaceempires.net (http://www.spaceempires.net) forums under Mods, the Star Trek Mod.

[Atrocities]

<font color="brown">New Version Released </font>

Version 1.9.1.2 of the Star Trek Mod has been released. www.astmod.com (http://www.astmod.com)

The only race that should be effected by this update is the Breen. I increased the size of their cloaking device from 10kt to 20kt.


Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.2

1. Fixed Error in the FQM Quadrant Size file, Sparse Maze Entry.
2. Added More Questions and Answers to the Installation Read - Me
3. Changed Lowered fighter and shuttle defense ability slightly.
4. Changed Nausicaan Main.bmp slightly to offset it from the Cardassian color.
5. Changed Satellite Mounts Damage Percent from 100 to 70.
6. Changed Satellite Mount to Small Satellite Mount
7. Changed Vehicle Size Maximum to 50 for Small Satellite Mount (May effect saved games)
8. Changed Large Satellite Mount to Satellite Mount.
9. Changed Advanced Tachyon Sensors I EM Active scanning at level 7 to 6
10. Changed Advanced Tachyon Sensors I EM Active scanning at level 9 to 7
11. Changed Breen Cloaking Device I - III Tonnage Size from 10kt to 20kt (will effect saved games)
12. Changed Breen Cloaking Device I - III Cloak Level to (1,1,1 2,2,2 3,3,3)
13. Changed Klingon Cloaking Device I - III Tonnage Structure from 40 to 20
14. Changed Advanced Klingon Cloaking Device I - II Tonnage Structure from 40 to 20
15. Changed Federation Cloaking Device Tonnage Structure from 30 to 15.
16. Changed Romulan Cloaking Device Tonnage Structure from 40 to 20.
17. Changed Advanced Romulan Cloaking Device Tonnage Structure from 40 to 20.
18. Added Tachyon Grid I - II
19. Changed Removed Ship Construction Level 5 from tech requirements for Federation Cloaking Device
20. Changed Removed Federation Energy Weapons Level 5 from requirements for Defiant Cloak Mount
21. Added Defiant Pulse Weapon Mount
22. Added Movement Bonus to all Scout, Escort and some Frigate hull sizes. (may work, may not)
23. Changed Tweaked Shield Generator I - X abilities slightly
24. Changed Tweaked Bio - Electric Field I - X abilities slightly
25. Changed Tweaked Borg Regenerative Shields I - V abilities slightly
26. Changed Re-organized the DefaultDesignTypes


Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.1

1. Fixed Error in Bynar (Neutral Race 001) General file
2. Changed Description of Self Destruct Device (SDD) Boarding Defense Ability
3. Added New ship sets for Minor Empires


Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.0

1. Fixed Cost error in Robo - Miners II. It is now the same cost as Robo - Miners I &amp; III
2. Changed Code for all Propulsion Mounts to PM1, PM2, etc.
3. Changed Propulsion Mount 7 from Vehicle Size Minimum 1500 to 2000.
4. Added Propulsion Mount 6 for vehicle Size Min/Max of 1501 to 1999 (For Queens Cube)
5. Added Resource Ship to vehicle Size file. (Custom Hull Size for Supply Replicator Component and mount)
6. Added Supply Replicator I - III
7. Added Supply Mount (SUPM) for use with Supply Replicator I - III and Resource Ship.
8. Changed Intro image to Custom Image by David Gervais. (Birds Of Prey)
9. Changed Telekinetic Torpedo I - III Family from 2003 to 2113.
10. Changed Supply usage for warp core, Borg Warp Core, and Organic War Drive VI - X (Lowered)
11. Changed Federation Explorer Class Bitmap image from Escort to Scout
12. Changed Added new Federation ship set by Atrocities
13. Changed Added new DS9 ship set by Atrocities
14. Changed Added new TMP (Trek Motion Pictures) ship set by Atrocities.
15. Changed Organized shuttles into Shuttle I - V.
16. Changed Small Warp Core Tech Area Req from 3 to 1 - Tech Area Req 1 = Shuttle 1 (Shuttle III hull size)
17. Changed Description of Small Warp Core.
18. Changed Added restriction of Two Per Vehicle to Shuttle Phaser
19. Changed All Small Engines names to Shuttle Impulse Engine I - IV
20. Changed Dropped Tech Area req Propulsion from Shuttle Impulse Engine I - IV
21. Changed Description of Shuttle Impulse Engine I - IV
22. Changed Raised shuttle technology level from 3 to 4.
23. Changed Dropped Tech Requirement Construction 1 from Shuttle Technology
24. Changed Missile weapons Max Level from 9 to 15. AI should now research all missile weapons.
25. Changed Replaced Andorian Neutral Race with the Lurians
26. Changed Replaced Vulcan Neutral Race with the Talosians
27. Added Lurian and Talosian design names
28. Replaced Both the Lurian and Talosian neutral ship sets
29. Changed Updated all EMP files.
30. Changed Fixed errors in Events File. (Now in correct order)
31. Changed All Race Default AI_Design Creation files (Reversed order of ship listings)
32. Changed All Race Research files (Re-organized some entries and added Not Connected entries)
33. Changed Added Generic Race ships
34. Changed Added Boarding defense to Self Destruct Device.
35. Changed Update all neutral and minor race emblems.

[Atrocities]

UPDATE:

If you downloaded the update or the full version for STM v 1.9.1.2 before 2am this morning, march 1st, you will need to download a FIX 1.9.1.2 (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STMv1912Fix.rar)

I added an ability to the some of the hulls that effected the movement adversly. This has been corrected. If you have not yet downloaded the latest version, then your ok. Don't worry about it.

[Captain Kwok]

As per discussions at SE.net - it seems the movement bug is caused by the extra movement generation ability having the same number for value2 on the warp core and small ships, differentiating those will correct the problem.

[DarkHorse]

Atrocities said:
<font color="brown">New Version Released </font>

Version 1.9.1.2 of the Star Trek Mod has been released. www.astmod.com (http://www.astmod.com)

The only race that should be effected by this update is the Breen. I increased the size of their cloaking device from 10kt to 20kt.




Hey! Quit shafting the Breen! What have we ever done to you?!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

- Breen Confederacy, STM FINAL PBW game

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
As per discussions at SE.net - it seems the movement bug is caused by the extra movement generation ability having the same number for value2 on the warp core and small ships, differentiating those will correct the problem.



I tried that, did not work. So I simply removed the ability from the hulls.

[RazorSharp]

duno when this happened but...why oh why you nerfed borg shields size of 50 cost 1000 minerals and only 10 shields regenerated none will use them now...this is way to low...only thing who makes borgs better is bigger ships...maybe make them worthy again?
Species are nerfed 2 they're shields are only bit better cost twice as much and use more space why use em @ all?

sorry if I'm being offensive but when your 2 fusion cubes cant blow up tholian Bship then excuuusme http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Atrocities]

All weapons are lower powered so having uber shields is counter productive to the mod. The game has been tested over and over and over again and the shields work fine given the weaker range of the weapons. I will test the borg out, again, and try and fix any problems they might have. Thanks.

The problem with designs is that there is only so much you can put on a design before you have to manualy add AI tags to the design to get it to add additional weapons or components. In later games, after players have Shield Generator X, you MUST have shield destroying weapons on your designs or a huge fleet in order to take out one well defended ship. This is call technological progression where shield tech has out paced beam weapon ability to peneatrate it. So you change tacticts and start equiping your ships with shield penetrating advanced weapons, and or weapons that target shield generators.

I have gotten a lot of statements about the AI and the pace of the game.

For a long time I thought I was doing something wrong, that is until now, I was sent a save game for an older version and the player had over 500 turns. The AI in this game had huge, HUGE, fleets of ships of every size from scout to Dreadnought. Their planets were all colonized and full, they were creating new planets and moving about via new warp points. The AI was permorming brillantly.

So it occured to me that the problem is not really a problem at all. People expect to have engaging game play within a few turns of starting a game. They are fixated upon getting into the action as soon as possible. They often play a game of about 100 to 150 turns before calling it quites. In this time they expect the AI to have dreadnoughts by turn 20 and providing them a challenge as early as turn 10.

Well SEIV is not a 100 to 150 turn game, it is a long range game with turns as high as 1,000 and beyond.

When you start a game of SEIV one must realize that an average game is NOT 100 turns, as in the demo, but rather 500 to 1000 turns.

If players would be willing to play the mod to those numbers they would find that the AI is quite formiddable. However, most are just interested in getting right into the action. To them I will now say, start the game with High-tech levels and by turn 20 your should start to see dreadnoughts.

[Nodachi]

AI designs aside, the trick to the Borg is to use both their regenerators and regular shields. That combo makes their ships extremely tough.

[Atrocities]

Good point. In the next version I will add an AI Tag to the Borg SR component and add it to their designs.

[Onyx]

Atrocities said:
Good point. In the next version I will add an AI Tag to the Borg SR component and add it to their designs.



Atrocities. I in noway wish to presume to teach you anything because without your mod I would be nowhere with this stuff. What I'm saying is I played around with your design files and found an easy way for the AI to build normal shields and Borg regenerators.


Name:= A4 Cube
Design Type := Defense Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Short Weapons Range
Size Minimum Tonnage := 600
Size Maximum Tonnage := 600
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapon
Minimum Speed := 2
Desired Speed := 5
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 3
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 25
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 8
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 2
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 10
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 4
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 151
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 8
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 22
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 5
Shields Spaces Per One := 200
Armor Spaces Per One := 600
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Majority Comp Ability := Weapon
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 11
Misc Ability 1 Name := AI Tag 02
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 50
Misc Ability 2 Name := Extra Movement Generation
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Combat Movement
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 4 Name := Solar Supply Generation
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 50
Misc Ability 5 Name := Armor Regeneration
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 200
Misc Ability 6 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 7 Name := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 8 Name := Multiplex Tracking
Misc Ability 8 Spaces Per One := 600
Misc Ability 9 Name := Shield Regeneration
Misc Ability 9 Spaces Per One := 600
Misc Ability 10 Name := AI Tag 01
Misc Ability 10 Spaces Per One := 50
Misc Ability 11 Name := Generate Points Intelligence
Misc Ability 11 Spaces Per One := 600



Use the existing 'Shield spaces per one' to assign the normal shields and use 'Misc Ability' Shield Regeneration to build the borg shields.
I also found using the 'Generate Points Intelligence' ability enabled the AI to put Sensor Arrays on all designs. Just made them a little more competetive.
I am mainly playing with all research done so I can get into expanding and exterminating. Would this effect a game started on low tech?
Thanks again for your outstanding work.

[Atrocities]

Hey thanks for the info. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I don't know if this will hurt the low tech start but I will experiment with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nodachi]

AT, in one of the other threads you mentioned changing Pirate Colony Tech. My suggestion is to make it cost some points since the Pirate Spacedock is so nice. For that matter why not drop Pirate Colony Tech and add something like Advanced Construction Techniques or some such to give better spaceyards to any who pay for it? Or maybe it would add SJ's spaceyard expansion projects? I could see the Borg converting an entire world over into a giant construction facility! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[XenoTheMorph]

AT since SE.net is down I'll post here for a little bug I've found http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif -

'Small Shield Generators' upgrade to 'Personal Shield Generators'! This is especially strange on Fighters

[Atrocities]

Thanks guys. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Loosing all that data over at SE.net, well at least the recent bug reports, sucks.

[Fyron]

The data is not lost guys...

[Aiken]

Good to hear it.

[Atrocities]

<font color="red">03-11-2005</font>

Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.2 Full (28 megs) (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=339237) This is the complete mod. Be sure to read both the installation and Before You Play documents.
Star Trek Mod v1.9.1.2 Patch (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=335718) This is just the patch and it will update any version of the mod from 1.9.0.0 to current.

[Ragnarok-X]

Problem here. In the first QoC game im playing a pirate race. I constructed the Spy Network, which reads that is adds 20% research output. I checked the facility file and it has the ability. But the bonus wont show up. I have a planet with 8 lvl 1 research facs, which makes 8*500 = 4000 research points. Due to a modifier of race ability and happiness, i get a total of about 4200, so the 20% bonus is not applied. Whats the deal here ? Do those modificators dont show up correctly when selecting the planet ?

[Aiken]

I'm afraid that this mod won't be shown up in the planet window, since this facility has a systemwide effect.

[Ragnarok-X]

Ah, thanks a bunch. So the research is accumlated, but just not properly displayed. No big deal then. Was wondering how i got 420k research in total anyway, according to the research window http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


edit: apart from trading income http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Atrocities]

aiken said:
I'm afraid that this mod won't be shown up in the planet window, since this facility has a systemwide effect.



Is is because of the mod or is it just the way SE IV does things?

Dell Games (http://dell.wildgames.com/ECS/htdocs/GameConsole.aspx?dp=dell&amp;mc=dellgames_july_email&amp;_ uid_=551aef0d-7628-4ee2-b35d-3306374298e8&amp;_uda_=)

[Fyron]

That is a problem with SEIV itself, nothing to do with your mod.

[Aiken]

Mod == modifier, not some partcular mod.

[AngleWyrm]

An examination of fuel consumption and vessel range.

Each ship consumes supplies for it's core and nacelles for every square entered. All other consumption is ignored, except during combat weapons fire. This comes to between 100 and 130 supplies/square.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Warp
Tech Speed Uses PerTurn Years Squares
1 2 100 200 inf n/a
2 3 100 300 inf n/a
3 4 110 440 3.7 148
4 5 120 600 1.2 60
5 6 130 780 0.7 42
6 6 120 720 0.8 48
7 8 110 880 0.5 40
8 8 110 880 0.5 40
9 9 100 900 0.5 45
10 10 100 1000 0.4 40
11 11 100 1100 0.3 33
12 12 100 1200 0.3 36
13 13 100 1300 0.3 39</pre><hr />
Currently, the maximum resupply technology (besides infinite) is 2xRam Scoop-III + 1xReplicator-III only allows for a refill rate of 410 supply/star. This means that maximum sustainable speed through 1-star average space, if extensive research in resupply is spent, is Warp-3.

Most vessels have a storage capacity between 2000-5000 supplies. The operational range in turns of a vessel can therefore be calculated as the root of Storage - Turns x (PerTurn - Resupply) = 0.

The operational time in years in the last column are for a vessel with 3,000 supply storage, using Ram-Scoop-3, and where every system encountered has one star, and that the vessel will not engage in combat. Range is cut roughly in half for colony ships, which require four nacelles.

[Atrocities]

Very interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif So the faster you go, the more you use. Cool. Very helpful information. I can see that some adjusting needs to be done. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[AngleWyrm]

These measurements can help to choose what the various tech levels will offer. Without a good measurement, it is possible to get trapped in a bottomless well of "everything should cost more, and provide less". Speeds above warp-4 produce a total movement of about 40 for a ship, and vary the time in transit between 7 turns and three turns.

The clearest view I can provide, so that you can decide what you want the game experience to be like along the whole timeline. What is the maximum length of a deep-space mission? How does that change over the course of the technology timeline?

[Ragnarok-X]

Yeah, i noticed this as well. While faster engines add more speed to ships, they dont decrease the fuel usage, actually INCREASING the usage per turn, quickly depleting ships, even using best ram scoops. I suggest to decrease the warpcores supply usage by 10-15 per level

[Captain Kwok]

Rag-X, this was one item I wanted to bring up when/if we were going to have a chat about the mod as per SE.net discussions. It's fairly easy to solve by just decreasing supply usage a tad on the higher level nacelles, or by giving more advanced warp cores a bigger boost in supply storage.

[Atrocities]

I will be on #spaceempires later this afternoon, say around 3 PST if nothing comes up.

My goal is to make the STM a polished as possible. So any critizism are welcome along with suggestions and ways to fix things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'd like to get it right once and for all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Nodachi]

I got to thinking about this and I think that more fuel usage for more speed makes sense. In Star Trek ships had a maximum speed and a cruising speed. They couldn't maintain maximum warp for too long because it would deplete their dilithium crystals but they could go slower and have more range. So the way the mod has things set up seems to be true to Trek. The problem comes from the game's mechanics, ships are always moving at their maximum speed and burning supplies faster than they can generate them. Maybe adding supply generation to the warp cores (which is what powers almost everything on a Trek ship) would be a possible solution. Also, before changing anything the question should be asked, do we want ships with unlimited range?

[Captain Kwok]

What is really needed is a bit of range shortening on the early tech ships and longer range on the more advanced ships.

[Nodachi]

That could easily be accomplished by reducing the supply storage of the early warp cores and the amount of supplies generated by bussard collectors.

[Gandalph]

I have modded the Ram Scoops to 4 per ship instead of two and that solved the cruising problem. Range is still limited (i.e. you still have to stop to resupply) and supplies are used rapidly when attacking, so if you go on raid runs, you still have to stop to resupply, but a lone explorer can travel much further without resupplying.

[Atrocities]

Remember that there is now also a Resupply component that works with the resupply ship to generate supplies for the fleet. There is no limit to how many of those ships you can build and fleet.

[NullAshton]

In star trek, an ship with full matter and antimatter stores can on average fly around for about 3 years. Perhaps antimatter tanks could hold supply? Ramscooms would generate supplies.

[Atrocities]

An Update:

I am gathering a list of things that need to be done for the next version. I have been lucky enough that a few folks have stepped up and pointed out some really glaring problems with the mod and are willing to help me correct them. Thanks guys.

We are also discussing the mod over on its offical forum (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&amp;file=viewforum&amp;f=34).

Please come by and make some posts. SE.nets forus are full of very good info about modding and such.

I have an updated list of things that need to be done for the next version at SE.net. Just follow the above link.

[Atrocities]

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT:

The Star Trek Mod is a mod of SPACE EMPIRES IV therefore it must follow the physics of this game. The Star Trek Mod is not a STAND ALONE GAME. It is limited to the physics and restrictions of SE IV, thereby many elements of the mod that would be considered as Star Trek Cannon, cannot apply. IE true warp drive, ship sizes, weapons, and star trek acting AI. Albeit I have tried, with the help of many fine people, to simulate as well as we can, a true star trek environment for our game play pleasure.

[Atrocities]

Here is my new proposed Supply Useage / Generation Model for
the mod based upon an earlier post that outlined the problem
very well.


<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Level = Tech level
Move = Movement bonus
Uses = Amount of supplies used per move
NacT x2 = Nacelle Total Times 2 (Because two warp nacelles are required.)
NacT = Nacelle Total
CombT = Combined Total of Warp Core and Nacelle supply useage per move.
Speed = How many moves total
PerTurn = Total Supply useage per turn mulitplied by speed and CombT.
Store = How much supplies each warp core stores.
Dist = Distance in squars
Max = Maximum components allowed
Gen = Supply Generation per turn
TPT = Total Per Turn
</pre><hr />

Current Model
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Warp Nacelle
Level Move Uses NacT X2

I 1st 40 80
II 2st 40 80
III 3st 40 80
IV 4st 40 80
V 5st 40 80</pre><hr />


<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Warp Core
Level Move Uses NacT CombT Speed PerTurn Store
I 1b 20 80 100 2 200 700
II 1b 20 80 100 3 300 800
III 2b 30 80 110 4 440 850
IV 2b 40 80 120 5 520 900
V 3b 50 80 130 6 780 1000
VI 3b 40 80 120 6 720 1050
VII 4b 30 80 110 8 880 1100
VIII 4b 30 80 110 8 880 1150
IX 5b 20 80 100 10 1000 1200
X 5b 20 80 100 10 1000 1300

I 6b 20 80 100 11 1100 1400
II 7b 20 80 100 12 1200 1450
III 8b 20 80 100 13 1300 1500</pre><hr />

What I propose is to change the amount of supplies each WC can store:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Warp Core
Level Move Uses NacT CombT Speed PerTurn Store Dist**
I 1b 20 80 100 2 200 600 6
II 1b 20 80 100 3 300 900 9
III 2b 30 80 110 4 440 1320 12
IV 2b 40 80 120 5 520 1560 15
V 3b 50 80 130 6 780 2340 18
VI 3b 40 80 120 6 720 2160 18
VII 4b 30 80 110 8 880 2640 24
VIII 4b 30 80 110 8 880 3520 24
IX 5b 20 80 100 10 1000 4000 30
X 5b 20 80 100 10 1000 5000 30

I 6b 20 80 100 11 1100 5500 33
II 7b 20 80 100 12 1200 6000 36
III 8b 20 80 100 13 1300 6500 39</pre><hr />

** (Estimated based on no supply generation)
The proposed changes to the supply use / generation system would be that each ship would have 3 full turns of supplies and the ability to generate about 3/5th of there needed supplies each turn giving a slight bonus to the lower warp cores to help the AI out. So if a ship keeps moving it will run its supplies down eventually, but pausing for a turn or two will rengerate supplies.

Bussard Collectors and Ram scoops currently contribute the following amount of supplies per turn.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Bussard Collectors
Level Max Gen TPT
I 4 50 200
II 4 60 240
III 4 70 280

Ram Scoop I
Level Max Gen TPT
I 2 140 280
II 2 160 320
III 2 180 360</pre><hr />

Proposed changes to Bussard Collectors and Ram Scoops.
1. Change tech requirement to Warp Core - Supply Tech will be tied into Warp Core
2. Change the supply generation per turn.
3. Added a Level IV and X to Bussard Collectors
4. Increase Ram Scoop Max from 2 to 4
5. Or Consider Making Ram Scoop a seperate component that can combine with Bussard Collectors.
6. Or Consider Adding a MOUNT - Name it the Ram Scoop Mount - and remove the components Ram Scoop.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Bussard Collectors (For the Purpose of this model Ram Scoop Is figured In and Out)
Level Max Gen TPT Warp Tech Lev
I 4 40 180 I - Beginning Tech
II 4 70 280 Warp Technology II
III 4 90 360 Warp Technology III
IV 4 115 460 Warp Technology IV
V 4 160 640 Warp Technology V - VI

Proposed New Levels (Not using Ram Scoop)
VI 4 180 720 Warp Technology VII - VIII
VII 4 195 780 Warp Technology IX - X
VIII 4 250 1000 Adv Warp Technology I
IX 4 260 1040 Adv Warp Technology II
X 4 280 1120 Adv Warp Technology III

Ram Scoop (Max increased to 4 - USING Ram Scoop and not Proposed new levels above)
Level Max Gen TPT
I 4 195 780 Warp Technology IX - X
II 4 230 1040 Adv Warp Technology II
III 4 280 1220 Adv Warp Technology III
</pre><hr />

The Ram Scoop Mount - Could simply just be used to give a 2x supply bonus for all levels and we would simply make the Max for all Bussard Collectors 2 instead of 4 because with the Mount they would be mulitplied 2x = 4 any ways.

Also we could reverse the names making the Ram Scoop the Bussard Collector. Sounds better to me.

What are your thoughts?

[Renegade 13]

Atrocities said:
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT:

The Star Trek Mod is a mod of SPACE EMPIRES IV therefore it must follow the physics of this game. The Star Trek Mod is not a STAND ALONE GAME. It is limited to the physics and restrictions of SE IV, thereby many elements of the mod that would be considered as Star Trek Cannon, cannot apply. IE true warp drive, ship sizes, weapons, and star trek acting AI. Albeit I have tried, with the help of many fine people, to simulate as well as we can, a true star trek environment for our game play pleasure.



Don't tell me people have been complaining that the mod isn't "canon" again?!? That's just sad.

As for the proposed change of names (making the Ram Scoop the Bussard Collector) sounds good to me.

[NullAshton]

Add fuel tanks!

[Gandalph]

AT, I think you're working too hard. As I stated in my previous post, changing the Ram Scoop to max 4 per ship worked perfectly and that's it. No other work required. With this, the player can make some ships with 4, some with 3, some with 2, etc. making a conscious design decision to travel far or fight well. Nuff Said?

[AngleWyrm]

The early tech limits are too low. With a range of only six, a vessel might not even be able to leave the home system without running out of gas.

If the player builds a colony ship on turn 1, it becomes available on turn three. That ship should be able to reach at least a neighboring sector and colonize without failing, a range of about twelve average. Building an explorer on turn one should result in a ship that can do some exploring.

With a storage capacity of three turns, a ship's fuel radius is one and a half turns from a resupply center.
It is the refill rate that determines what speed a ship can travel. The ships travel until out of gas, and then run at their maximum refill rate. This can also be done by stopping to refill, and then running at full speed, but it amounts to the same velocity.

[Atrocities]

AngleWyrm_2 said:
The early tech limits are too low. With a range of only six, a vessel might not even be able to leave the home system, let alone colonize or transport population.

The early game should still be playable, otherwise there is no reason to have the technology in the game.



The range is extend by the use of supply generation components. The loss is only 20 per move so they should have a good range.

To the other post above:
I have been working on this mod for nearly three years now and I have to tell you that it is completely differnt than it was when I started. Given by the amount of downloads this mod has had, and the emails I get, the mod is somewhat popular at the moment. I do get some negative emails, mostly people complaining that the mod is NOT star trek enough. Well no duh, its a mod of Space Empires and not a mod of a star trek game. Believe me when I say that I have grown very inpatient with those kind of emails. It seems that no matter how much I tell people, someone always seems to not get the message. So I have taken a few steps to ENLIGHTEN people about the fundamental basics that govern this, and indeed, any mod.

I get the occational "what in the hell were you thinking email" and again, I just have to say that I was not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Seriously, when I started modding I knew nothing, I still don't but I am learning. Thanks mainly to people like Rollo, Fyron, Aiken, SJ, Kwok, and many many many more the mod has endure and improved over the last couple of years. Even though I might get discussed with some of the email I get, for the most part, 99% of them are very positive and helpful. I guess that you just cannot please all of the people all of the time. But I try. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

AngleWyrm_2 said:
If the player builds a colony ship on turn 1, it becomes available on turn three. That ship should be able to reach at least a neighboring sector and colonize without failing, a range of about twelve average. Building an explorer on turn one should result in a ship that can do some exploring.




I have not yet tested the new model but I am confident that it will work well. If not I will give the Colony Modules more supply storage to compensate. I want a colony ship to be able to move between 15 and 20 squares with no resupply generation. More with it.

[DarkHorse]

You could always add supply storage to the colony module itself.

By the way, Atrocities you do a great job on the mod, don't let a few nitpickers get you down.

EDIT oops, I should type faster, you beat me to the idea.

[Atrocities]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks DH. I like nitpickers though; they help to make the mod more fun. It’s the folks that just don't understand the basics behind the limitations of modding space empires IV that drive me insane. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Those folks just don't listen no matter how many times you tell them something.


The following are expepts from many emails over the last few weeks. (Not direct quotes - I deleted the messages to save disk space.)

"In star trek there are no warp points. Why are there warp points in your mod?"

The star trek mod is a MOD of space empires IV therefore it is limited by the physics of the game. Space empires IV has warp point so we have them in the mod.

"I fail to understand why you simply do not mod out the warp points."

I see that you do not understand what I mean. Space Empires is set up, by that I mean it is hard coded, to use warp points therefore any mod made for the game is stuck with warp points. I cannot mod around this.

"Well in star trek there are no warp points, they use warp engines and I will tell you that your warp engines work nothing like they should. (Enclosed is a warp core speed model and technical break down)"

Thank you for the information. Again I understand that Star Trek does not use warp points, however as I have stated before I am limited by the physics of the game. As for the warp drive system, again we are limited by the physics of the game and have tried to emulate as well as we can, a warp drive propulsion system. If you like, you can read the back-story for the mod. (Link)

"Well I just don't understand why you just don't do away with the warp points. They are not in star trek. As for your back-story I will have you know that Data died and O'Brian went back to earth to be a teacher. Therefore you story does not match the establish facts of Star Trek."

Thanks for the email again Tommy, as I have repeatedly tried to explain to you warp points are hard coded into the game and cannot be modded out or around. We are stuck with them because that is how Aaron Hall has set the game up. It is his game and therefore his rules. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif As for the back-story, you will note that I stated that Data was the duplicate version from Nemesis. As for O'Brian, the story takes place long after the events in DS9 final episode took place. Please read again I believe I may have explained this in the story.

"Your federation star ships do not look like federation star ships. I have never seen some of these Romulan ships you use and I would enjoy knowing where you got the specs for the Vulcan, Vaadwaur, Son's, Orion, Gorn, Kazon, Hirogen, and Andorian ships. I cannot find any of the ships you have in any Star Fleet records or documentations. Additionally I would like to point out that your warp drive system does not properly reflect how a warp drive system should work. Again the warp points in your mod need to be removed and a true star trek propulsion system should be adopted."

The ships are my own models. I wanted to have full control over there use. I could not have full control over the use of other people’s models so I made my own. As for the ship designs I used for the races you listed, well I just made them up. I attempted to make them as true to forum as I could, but without having anything to base designs on, I opted to go with some creative license. I will not get into the warp point or drive discussion again. I have explained this to you many times now.

"I compared your federation models to the ships in star fleet command and Armada, and they do not look anything like them. As to the warp drive and warp point discussion you have not yet told me why you will not adopt a true star trek type of propulsion and do away with warp points."

Thanks for your emails. If you have any more comments please post them on the forum. I am not going to have the time to respond to any more of your emails.

(He sent a few more) - Note: Tommy I have tried to explain things to you, you have not posted on the forum so the loss is yours.

[DarkHorse]

I admire your patience for even replying to someone like that more than once, twice at the most.

Some people just... don't... get... it...

[Atrocities]

You should have been here for the great debate over the Gorn ship set. Man that was a surprise. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Kana]

O'goody...Gorns...lets see there are at least 4 different styles of shipsets one could even possibly consider...Oh..sorry...we don't want to rehash that huh... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Kana

[Nodachi]

AngleWyrm_2 said:
The early tech limits are too low. With a range of only six, a vessel might not even be able to leave the home system without running out of gas.

If the player builds a colony ship on turn 1, it becomes available on turn three. That ship should be able to reach at least a neighboring sector and colonize without failing, a range of about twelve average. Building an explorer on turn one should result in a ship that can do some exploring.

With a storage capacity of three turns, a ship's fuel radius is one and a half turns from a resupply center.
It is the refill rate that determines what speed a ship can travel. The ships travel until out of gas, and then run at their maximum refill rate. This can also be done by stopping to refill, and then running at full speed, but it amounts to the same velocity.



AT has already addressed this but I'd like to add, even if a ship runs out of supplies during movement all it has to do is sit still for a few turns and recharge. I think it's a good system.

One thing I'd like to bring up though, IMO Advanced Power Conservation is too cheap considering what it can do for you in this mod. I'd humbly suggest increasing its cost to 1500 racial points.

Edit: AngleWyrm_2, I apologize, I obviously didn't read your entire post and just repeated part of what you had already said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

[AngleWyrm]

heh, I tend to post too fast sometimes also; that's ok. The thought gets covered, even if redundantly.


If not I will give the Colony Modules more supply storage to compensate. I want a colony ship to be able to move between 15 and 20 squares with no resupply generation. More with it.



There is a problem with making exceptions for designer-specified ships: Exploration will have to be conducted by colonizer ships. Players will no longer be able to use Explorer class ships to explore, because Colonizers do the job better. It would make more sense to leave propulsion mechanics to the propulsion equipment, rather than designing exceptions into the system.

[AngleWyrm]

I made a spreadsheet that counts how many guns will fit on each kind of ship in the game. It takes into account bridge, life support, quarters, warp cores, nacelles, number of engines reqired, and propulsion mounts.

It gives a good idea of what kind of firepower a ship can bring to bear, for every model in the game, a basis for comparison.

Link: ship stats spreadsheet (http://home.comcast.net/~anglewyrm/shipstats.zip)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Congratulations, you've officially entered the ranks of Those Who Are Obsessed With SEIV. /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Atrocities]

AngleWyrm_2 said:
I made a spreadsheet that counts how many guns will fit on each kind of ship in the game. It takes into account bridge, life support, quarters, warp cores, nacelles, number of engines reqired, and propulsion mounts.

It gives a good idea of what kind of firepower a ship can bring to bear, for every model in the game, a basis for comparison.

Link: ship stats spreadsheet (http://home.comcast.net/~anglewyrm/shipstats.zip)



Well this is impressive to say the least. I have to agree with Narf, welcome to the club. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

A follow up. Man how long did it take you to enter all that data? I am not sure how to put this info to best use, but thanks anyways for providing it. Thank you again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[AngleWyrm]

It took a solid day of coding to get Visual Basic to read VehicleSize.txt and load it into a spreadsheet. Check out the SEIV module in Tools-&gt;Macro-&gt;VisualBasicEditor.

If you put the spreadsheet into any mod data folder and then execute the RefreshData macro, it will read in from that mod. Might not apply though, because of other STM stuff, like engine mounts. It can be refreshed after any edits to VehicleSize.txt, and stay current.

It still needs a bunch of work; I've been working on getting Effective Tech Level in, that takes into account the different racial tech costs. Might take a while on that though.

One useful bit of debugging that came up is that it appears like the Warrior trait is in need of some editing. They start the game with Heavy Destroyer technology, when everyone else has only Escorts and Scouts. The warrior tech also requires a player to climb two expensive hull-tech trees in order to get the extra hull sizes, which is WAY expensive.

[Nodachi]

The Warrior Trait is best left to the AI in order to give it an edge. It's so powerful I even banned it from the Power Game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Atrocities]

Nodachi is correct. The warrior trait was intended exclusively for single player and AI use. It SHOULD NEVER be used in a PBW game. Not only does it give to many game tilting bonuses.

[Atrocities]

Proposed new supply useage / generation model. (Subject to change)

[boran_blok]

I'll have to see it for real to know wether or not it works, so I suggest you make a beta with it and We'll play trough a game, we'll know it quite quickly then.

But it looks good on paper(screen)

[AngleWyrm]

What we seem to have going on here is Maximum Speed and Cruising Speed! Allow me to illustrate:

Maximum speed is the maximum number of squares a ship can travel in one turn, based on the Warp Core, Nacelles, Emergency Propulsion, Solar Sails, etc. Fuel storage technologies determine the number of turns over which Maximum speed can be maintained.

Cruising speed is the maximum sustainable rate of travel; how many squares a ship can travel in a thousand turns, divided by a thousand turns. Fuel replenishment technologies are the main ingredient of cruising speed. The Bussard Collectors, Ram Scoops, and Replicators add up to how fast fuel flows into the system, and therefore the maximum sustainable output.

If the Warp Cores were to generate supply units, rather than burn them, it would be possible to scale the cruising speed with Warp Core technology, as well as the operating time at max warp.

[Atrocities]

What I am thinking about doing is giving the ships enough supplies to run three full turns worth of movement each, and re-adjusting the "Ram Scoop" - replaces the name Bussard Collector - to use 2 max components, but combined they generate 1/2 of a ships supply needs every turn. This would reduce a ships range over time, but also over time resupply the ship. The problem is balance. So I am testing it now.

[AngleWyrm]

Upping the storage limits can do that; the ships will then be able to maintain maximum warp for three turns, or fly at a slower speed for longer. Note that because ships generate their own fuel, they will always be able to travel indefinitely at slower speeds. It's the same thing as taking a quick run and pausing, or taking the trip slow and steady. If you remove all fuel-generating ship technology from the game, then it would be possible to enforce a radius of operations on ships.

Here is a balanced scenario, that would make the short runs at max warp an interesting design choice, as well as a strategy: Have the core generate supplies which, when added to two scoops produce a sustainable cruise speed listed under CruiseWarp:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>TL MaxWarp MaxUse Core Scoop C+2S CruiseWarp
I 2 200 50 25 100 1.0
II 3 300 100 25 150 1.5
III 4 400 130 35 200 2.0
IV 5 500 150 45 240 2.4
V 6 600 200 50 300 3.0
VI 6 600 220 50 320 3.2
VII 8 800 260 70 400 4.0
VIII 8 800 260 70 400 4.0
IX 10 1000 340 80 500 5.0
X 10 1000 340 80 500 5.0
XI 11 1100 360 90 540 5.4
XII 12 1200 400 100 600 6.0
XIII 13 1300 500 100 700 7.0
</pre><hr />
If you allow a player to add as many ram scoops/bussard collectors/replicators to their ship as they want, players can get ships with sustainable max warp...for a price. It takes eight scoops of the appropriate tech, plus the warp core, to support max warp. If scoop tech is set to 10kT, then the result is the player has some interesting choices.

The figures above are balanced so that if the player adds two scoops, they will receive enough supplies to maintain cruising speeds listed (or stop to refuel between rabbit-runs at max warp.) If the player chooses to spend their hull space on additional scoop/replicator/collector tech, then they can usefully add up to eight of them to contribute towards a higher sustainable speed. Adding more will gather supplies towards fuelling weaponry between fights. But of course all those fuel generators cost space, so the result is less room for weaponry...

On another note, warp-9 and warp-7 are speeds that don't exist in the current core/nacelle configuration.

[Atrocities]

I like this. It makes good sense. If I read this correctly your suggesting that I add supply generation to the WC? I am resistant to do that.

[DarkHorse]

You could also add maintenance penalties to the supply generation components, which would make the faster ships more expensive, in a cumulative fashion. Makes sense to me, although I'm insane.

[AngleWyrm]

There's a sleight problem with relying on 2xScoop tech to provide all supplies for a ship: the scoops provide too large a percentage of the speed. If the player were to add just one more scoop/replicator/collector, then all of a sudden the ship can run at or near max warp indefinitely. So the choice is removed, and the player has nothing to do. But if a significant chunk of the ship's supply generation is separated from scoops (like about half), then it is possible to let players buy as many scoops as they feel they can afford, filling up hull space that would have been guns, looking for a perfect mission balance. It then makes sense to have unarmed deep-space explorers, and slower heavily armed combat vessels. They would still have the same top speed for three-turn durations, but they would have some cost trade-offs about how fast they can cruise on longer missions, and isn't that what the ship design screen is for?

I also like the idea of high maintenance penalties for supply generating componants; it simulates a conversion of resources into supplies. Also, it will effectively create a financial ceiling on fleet size, as a proportion of income. Large fleets of small ships will tend to be more expensive than small fleets of large ships, a reason to buy bigger ships, slower ships, and tankers.

[AngleWyrm]

Created a sample of componants.txt/techarea.txt that uses nine levels of ram-scoop/bussard collectors, warp cores that generate supplies, and nacelles that burn 50 each, so that it's easy to tell. 1 square = 100 supplies; no muss no fuss. (zip file attached).

So far it's workin fairly well. I created three klingon scouts, one with 2xScoops, 4xScoops, and 8xScoops. The 2x scout ran low on gas at the end of the third turn, but the 8x scout kept going strong...with it's three guns instead of six. Also tried the Feds; their Explorer could only hold one gun at max scoops and the Escourt could hold two. Rough trade, when faced with ships carrying five or six. As for the Cardassians and their weak-*** little scout ship, they can't load it with enough scoops to maintain max speed, let alone arm it too.

I didn't change the prices, even though I really like the idea, because I don't know what to shoot for on that. Definitely wanting scoops to be expensive maintenance-wise though, so that there is good motivation not to max them out every time on larger hulls.

[Nodachi]

AngleWyrm_2, Great work! I like how this idea makes the game's balance better. My personal preference would be to make the scoops more expensive rather than add a maintainance penalty to them because the penalty would cause all the ship's components to be more expensive.

[DarkHorse]

Nodachi said:
AngleWyrm_2, Great work! I like how this idea makes the game's balance better. My personal preference would be to make the scoops more expensive rather than add a maintainance penalty to them because the penalty would cause all the ship's components to be more expensive.



The maintenance penalty would be consistent with the greater stresses the entire ship would suffer due to the higher sustained speeds. And it wouldn't make the ship any more expensive to produce, just make it's maintenance cost higher--which I think makes better sense than arbitrarily raising the initial costs of the ship.

[Nodachi]

DarkHorse said:

Nodachi said:
AngleWyrm_2, Great work! I like how this idea makes the game's balance better. My personal preference would be to make the scoops more expensive rather than add a maintainance penalty to them because the penalty would cause all the ship's components to be more expensive.



The maintenance penalty would be consistent with the greater stresses the entire ship would suffer due to the higher sustained speeds. And it wouldn't make the ship any more expensive to produce, just make it's maintenance cost higher--which I think makes better sense than arbitrarily raising the initial costs of the ship.



Respectfully, I disagree. The majority of a ship would not be subjected to higher stresses, just its hull. With maintainance penalties put on these components a long range explorer could wind up costing more each turn than a medium range gunship. We need to keep in mind that a maintainance penalty will dramatically increase the cost of all ships and if a ship happens to use an expensive component even more so.

How about this, keep the two per ship limit on ram scoops and make them cheap (like they are now.) Make the bussard collectors an add-on component to increase a ships range and make them more expensive. That way a we still get the player to make the range vs. guns decision and the increased range (and sustained speed) costs more both intially and each turn with normal maintainance rules.

[AngleWyrm]

What I did was abstract away the 'essentially free' element from ram scoops/bussard collectors. If there is a componant that ought to be included, and is so cheap (in space, research, money) that every ship will have it, it begins to approach irrelevant, and could just as well be assumed to be in the hull and save everyone a few mouse-clicks. It's mostly the position in hyperspace where one desires the game to reside; is it mostly interactive storytelling, mostly game playing, mostly role playing?

The warp core generates some supplies which helps to balance supply income along the history of the game as technology progresses. It also makes it possible to combine the latest warp core with older nacelles, and thereby make the computer fly ships at a slower speed, conserving gas.

[Atrocities]

<font color="brown"> PLEASE READ THE "INSTALLATION" AND "BEFORE YOU PLAY" READ ME FILES BEFORE YOU EMAIL ME ASKING ME QUESTIONS </font>

These Question have been asked and answered more times than I can even begin to conceivabley count. They are answered in the INSTALLTION read me

1. USE MOUNTS to reduce the size of the warp nacelles and warp core.
2. PUT 4 Warp Nacelles on Colony Ships. If you read the abilities for the hulls it will tell if you need to add more nacelles.
3. GET THE LATEST versions of the Image Mod and install into your base Space Empires IV / Pictures folder in the correct folders
4. UPDATE YOUR COPY of Space Empires IV to version 1.91 to avoid errors.

I get a lot of emails about this and I have stated this information so many times now on this forum, in the mod documentation, other forums, via email, on the web site, and on chat that I am getting sick of repeating it. I am sure you all can understand why.

[Atrocities]

Click Attachment to see large image..... Sorry these are my curde star trek models.

[Atrocities]

Nothing post ignor.

[Atrocities]

Nothing Post

[Captain Kwok]

Did you make those AT? If so, not a bad start at all.

[Fyron]

You can add more attachments to a post by editing it. Copy the link to the previous attachment and add it to the body of the post. It will still work fine.

[El_Phil]

Very nice, great explosion and a nice scene. The fed ship on the right needs its nacelles sorted, but I guess you knew that. Good start.

[Atrocities]

what do you mean by sorted?

[El_Phil]

As I see it the ship on the right has three nacelles, with one looking like its coming out of the top of the saucer. That third upper nacelle just looks like it shouldn't be there.

[Atrocities]

The ship on the right, is of the Dominion/Star Empire class. I have seen a lot of models and even made one... real plastic model.. many years ago. I miss that model, hell I miss them all.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/uploads/347022-dominion.PNG

[El_Phil]

Ahhh that explains it. I'm still struggling to quite get my head around the shape of it. The lead designer wasn't named Escher was he? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

I have a major balance issue. This is really ticking me off i can tell you. its about the STM Final PBW Game, which is, i think using 1.9.0.9. I cant tell if the newest version fixes this, but you really should consider doing it.

I had a fleet of 4 ships, with ship training 5%, lvl 1 combat sensors and 4x2 lvl 2 PDC.
I get attacked by a fleet of 45 small shuttles, moving at speed 3 or 4, equipped with 2 of those 6-6 phasers and a small shield. I lost my fleet, colony and was able to kill 5 !!! shuttles. Now here is the deal. A small shuttle shield can hold of 30 !! Points of damage, which is about 2 hits from a lvl 2 PDC, while the stack deals out 6*2 damage *45 540 damage, enough to even kill a friggin big ship in one hit. This is real bad balance issue, shuttle shields are WAY to powerful, and this was even a lvl 1 shield ! How do you go about killing a fleet of shuttles, who have 2 shields, if even one can soak up so much damage ? I dont know. Either lower shuttle shields resistance, or power up PDC. Take a look at shuttle armor. One armors has a 1:4 tonnage/structure setting, while a shield has like 1:6 setting.

Now this really ticks me off because i was sure the shuttle couldnt beat me, and i even wrote a nice arrogant msg to the other player. I hope i dont stumble upon more balance issues, unless its the me who can exploit them. No offense to you though.

[LordAxel]

I think allowing the races main beam weapons to fire on fighters would solve the problem. Maybe either both or just the pulse versions. Never really made sense to me that they didnt. To handle large swarms of them is near i possible except with large numbers of ships with tons of pdc

[Captain Kwok]

Ragnarok-X said:
I have a major balance issue. This is really ticking me off i can tell you. its about the STM Final PBW Game, which is, i think using 1.9.0.9. I cant tell if the newest version fixes this, but you really should consider doing it.

I had a fleet of 4 ships, with ship training 5%, lvl 1 combat sensors and 4x2 lvl 2 PDC.
I get attacked by a fleet of 45 small shuttles, moving at speed 3 or 4, equipped with 2 of those 6-6 phasers and a small shield. I lost my fleet, colony and was able to kill 5 !!! shuttles. Now here is the deal. A small shuttle shield can hold of 30 !! Points of damage, which is about 2 hits from a lvl 2 PDC, while the stack deals out 6*2 damage *45 540 damage, enough to even kill a friggin big ship in one hit. This is real bad balance issue, shuttle shields are WAY to powerful, and this was even a lvl 1 shield ! How do you go about killing a fleet of shuttles, who have 2 shields, if even one can soak up so much damage ? I dont know. Either lower shuttle shields resistance, or power up PDC. Take a look at shuttle armor. One armors has a 1:4 tonnage/structure setting, while a shield has like 1:6 setting.

Now this really ticks me off because i was sure the shuttle couldnt beat me, and i even wrote a nice arrogant msg to the other player. I hope i dont stumble upon more balance issues, unless its the me who can exploit them. No offense to you though.



"Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!" - Message from Andorian Ambassador to Cardassian scum.

[Atrocities]

You must research Point Defense Phasers. Also yes, I am looking into this as a balance issue. I do not recall off hand if I had addressed this in the 1912 version or not. I would have to research it. Sorry Rag, I know its sucks.... But shuttles are small fast little SOB's with some fire power. A swarm of them could do a lot of damage to a ship that cannot target them.

That would be a nice addition to SEV, a targeting component that we could set as to what it can target like we do weapons.

[Ragnarok-X]

Captain Kwok said:
"Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!" - Message from Andorian Ambassador to Cardassian scum.





Ok now THAT is really pi**ing me off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Hey AC,
sorry to bother again, but i cant seem to find the point-defense-phasers you mention. Im playing the Cardassian, the only think against fighters i can see are the standart PDC-Cannons with their weak damage. What do i have to research ?

Secondly i think i found another bug which is quite annoying as well. Here it goes. Each shield saps a bit of damage and created shield energy from hit. While a lvl 1 shield saps 10 damage per hit, a lvl 3 saps 15 damage.
Now the average lvl 5 weapon does like 55 damage. Now, if a player has a ship with 300 kT size, he can easily mount 3 of those shields. Now given he ONLY has lvl 3 shields, EACH hit will be reduced by 3*15 damage. -&gt; 55-45 = 10. This means a single hit will now do 10 damage. Its a little few i think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Now to exploit this, imagine a players put 4 of those shields on his ship. Now he will be invincible. Since even the best beam weapons only offer 55 damage (mounted 120% = 66-70), it is easily possible to create ships or bases which can not be hurt by those weapons.

You should consider SERIOUSLY lowering the "shield-generation-from-damage" ability on shields.
I hope i aint talking crap here, but i think several of those abilites DO stack, which is the problem. If they dont, forgot by point.

Ty.

[Fyron]

This isn't so much a bug as exactly how leaky shield systems are meant to work. Of course, STM shields aren't the typical brand of leaky shields, but they still have the shields from damage feature. The shields are added after the damage is done to the hull. Unless you have very high hit point per component armor (such as 150 points), some components will be damaged with each shot that hits the hull. Then, the next shot will have to go through the shields.

Typically, high damage per shot weapons are the most useful in a leaky shield system, especially when larger ships come into the fray.

Any weapon that skips armor will prevent the shields from damage ability from triggering. This includes stock game null space projectors and shard cannons.

More information on leaky shields can be found in SEIV Modding 101 (http://se4modding.spaceempires.net/ModdingTutorial.html#LeakyShields).

[Ragnarok-X]

I know that, Fyron, but if you take a look at the shield and weapon components, you will notice a single shield just takes up 20 kT of size, while offering 10 - 35 shield-generation-from-damage-ability and at least 50 shield points. Now if your average weapon (compared to the level of the shield) does, lets say 30 damage, then you literally only need to pack 3-4 shields on a vessel to make it invulnerable.4 shields offer at least 200 shield points and 40 - 140 !! shield-generation-from-damage-ability. No ordinary weapon can ever do more than 70-80 damage, which makes it quite hard to kill anything. To make it worse, consider pumping a station with just 100-120 KT (5-6) shields and it will become impossibly to beat as well. Of course im only talking about the standart weapons in the mod, from which each races has 2, one with a slightly higher damage, one with a slighly better hitchance. Im looking forward to hear ACs thoughts on this.

[Fyron]

I'm looking at 1.9.1.2 data files and shield generators only have 10 shield generation from damage. 8472 shield generators and Tholian CA go up to 15. Borg energy barriers go up to 20.

I am not sure you understand how it works. Components will be destroyed when the shields are at 0 points. Then points will be added to the shields. A weapon that does 30 damage will be able to destroy 30 hit points of components, then 30 points will be added to the shield layer (assuming you have at least 30 total shield generation from damage ability). Having an excess amount of shields from damage does not provide any benefit other than redundancy if some shield generators are destroyed. The hit points per component of the armor components is typically far more important than the shields from damage ability. Shields from damage ability amounts only determine how small of a ship you need to get the high levels of it.

The only problem for most races I can see is when emissive armor comes into play. Emissive Armor III requires weapons doing at least 65 damage to destroy an armor component (50 hit points + 15 emissive ability). Ships with 65+ shields from damage and EA III will effectively become invincible against ships with weapons that do less than 65 damage. Ships with 131+ shields from damage and EA III will effectively become invincible against ships with weapons that do less than 65 damage. Assume the current shield level is 0 and you are armed with weapons that do 64 damage. You hit the ship. 49 damage is done to the armor, 49 shield points are added to the shield layer. On the next shot, the 49 damage to the hull is simply added to the incoming hit. So, the hit will do 114 damage. 49 points of it will hit the shields, exactly the amount of excess partial damage from the last shot. 64 damage will be applied to the hull. The EA lowers it to 49. 49 points are added to the shield layer. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

Now, if you have a weapon that does 65 points of damage, it will be able to destroy an entire component, assuming the shield levels hit 0 at some point. Easy to do with a shield depleter. You can stagger shield depleters amongst your weapons. This will tend to eliminate all of the shields that were generated by the previous weapon hit, allowing the next to simply damage the armor. Of course, it is better to have more than a 0 point margin, but 65 will do.

If a ship just has regular armor, you only need weapons that do 30 damage per hit to be effective.

The Tholian Crystalline Armor might be too powerful at higher levels. It effectively has 80 hit points per component, including the EA ability of 10. To destroy it with normal damage type weapons when there is plenty of leaky shielding on the ship, you need weapons doing 80+ damage per hit...

[Ragnarok-X]

Well, firstly, the version im talking about is 1.9.0.2. I told i didnt knew if this was fixed in later versions, but the one im playing on PBW has shields with 10-35 shield-generation-from-damage abilities, each 2 level increase by 5.
Its strange, i thought that those works another way. Here is how i think it works (which is wrong, if you are right)

Lets say i have 3 shields. Each one provides 50 shieldpoints and shield-from-damage abilities of lets say 20. This comes to a total of 150 shield points and a total of 60 points to shields per damage.
Now lets say my average weapon does 75 damage points (which is about the maximum a weapon can do, considering shields can get far better than those in this example.
Now, one weapon hits the ship: 150 shields points are reduced to 75, but immedialy increases by 60, effectivly doing only 15 ! damage. Now if i had just one more shield, that my high-end weapon does no damage at all, since the 75 point it at first does are immediatly negated by shield-from-damage-ability, effectivly even creating more shieldpower than damage was done, up to the maximum shield amount.

Could you please (taking my numbers) do another explanation at how combat at this stage would work ? Because i was pretty sure this is the way it does..I even remember combats were lesser weapons were actually POWERING UP the shields (indicated with a "-" before the damage offset in the combat, for example a -5 damage setting was driving up the shields by 5 points, though this was happening in my mod which was using a similar system)

[AngleWyrm]

If you've seen the latest episode of Enterprise (4x17 - Bound), they bring some new light on the Orion Syndicate. So Here's a modded set of three racial pictures for them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~anglewyrm/orions.jpg

[AMF]

Does anyone out there have a copy of the data files for the Star Trek Mod 1.72? That's 1.72, NOT the most recent version. I (well, Alneyan really) needs a copy of them so he can run my empire in the QCOnflict game which uses them and not the latest version (see, I;m out of town, and he's running my klingons while I'm gone....oh, nevermind, it's all very complicated...I'm just looking for a copy of the mod fils for that version...)

thanks!

Alarik

[AngleWyrm]

Any one of your opponants playing in that QCOnflict game that you are playing should have a copy?

[douglas]

Ragnarok-X said:
Lets say i have 3 shields. Each one provides 50 shieldpoints and shield-from-damage abilities of lets say 20. This comes to a total of 150 shield points and a total of 60 points to shields per damage.
Now lets say my average weapon does 75 damage points (which is about the maximum a weapon can do, considering shields can get far better than those in this example.
Now, one weapon hits the ship: 150 shields points are reduced to 75, but immedialy increases by 60, effectivly doing only 15 ! damage. Now if i had just one more shield, that my high-end weapon does no damage at all, since the 75 point it at first does are immediatly negated by shield-from-damage-ability, effectivly even creating more shieldpower than damage was done, up to the maximum shield amount.

Could you please (taking my numbers) do another explanation at how combat at this stage would work ? Because i was pretty sure this is the way it does..I even remember combats were lesser weapons were actually POWERING UP the shields (indicated with a "-" before the damage offset in the combat, for example a -5 damage setting was driving up the shields by 5 points, though this was happening in my mod which was using a similar system)


Ok, 150 shield points, 60 shields from damage, 75 damage per shot. First shot: 75 damage to shields, shields reduced to 75. No damage was done to the hull, so shields from damage is not triggered. Second shot: 75 damage to shields, shields reduced to 0. Still no hull damage, so no shield regen. Third shot: 75 damage to hull, 60 shields from damage. Assume all damage always gets absorbed by 50 hp pieces of armor. One armor got destroyed by this shot, and another took the remaining 25 damage. Fourth shot: 25 partial damage added to shot for 100 total damage. 60 absorbed by shields, 40 hull damage - only partial to one armor. Only 40 shield points are generated, even though the total shields from damage ability value is 60, because the amount generated cannot exceed the amount of hull damage dealt. Fifth shot: 40 partial damage from previous shot takes out shields, 75 hull damage dealt, destroying one armor, dealing 25 partial damage, and generating 60 shields.

The net effect of the shields from damage ability is to nullify partial damage and make non-partial damage have to be dealt twice, up to the maximum of the total ability value per shot. Since this mod uses leaky armor, it is entirely possible for some shots to destroy internals, even shield generators, on the occasions when the shields are down and awaiting a recharge. Shields from damage can only make a ship completely invulnerable if you have a component with the armor ability that has more hit points than the enemy can deal damage in one shot.

Edit: Oops, just looked some stuff up and I was wrong about the leakiness of most of the armors. Seems like everything except standard and emissive armor actually does have the armor ability. Most of the armors max out at 50 hp each or less, and the highest emissive (20) is only available on ablative armor, which peaks at 30 structure, so most of it isn't a major problem. However, crystalline armor goes up to 70 structure, and emissive armor III has 15 emissive ability but lacks the armor ability, so the combination of these could completely block any normal weapon that does less than 85 damage per shot. This is enough to completely negate most normal weapons. Atrocities, you might want to consider eliminating crystalline armor IV and V.

[Captain Kwok]

In one of the original plans, the Tholain cystalline armor was intended to replace shields entirely hence they were to be given the armor ability with a small emissive value, but not the SGFD ability. The armor was supposed to good enough as to eliminate Tholain ships from using shields at all.

I did work on some shield/armor figures previously for 1.75? I think, but never finished up this area before I sent stuff back to Atrocities - however at that time I believe larger mounts were still in, eliminating some of these problems...

[Captain Kwok]

Although the below info I posted wouldn't really help the situation, making the crystalline armor half the size and structure would. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Thanks douglas. Now i get it. I always thought the SGFD ability was always triggering, even if only shields were damaged. But if its only activated once hull take damage, things are fine.
Thanks a lot, Fyron and douglas.

[Fyron]

alarikf said:
Does anyone out there have a copy of the data files for the Star Trek Mod 1.72?

I've got a 1.72 patch on SEnet: STM 1.72 Patch (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&amp;d_op=getit&amp;lid=433). Need some sort of old full version as well?

[Alneyan]

That download was broken a few hours ago Fyron; have you fixed the link, or was it a glitch on the server? (1.52 and another ST download weren't working either, but other downloads worked fine) The file didn't appear to be available at PBW either.

Alarikf send the mod files to me since then, so all is fine; of course, nobody should even think the Klingons need *help*. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fyron]

That file is working again, yes.

[Atrocities]

1.7.2 DATA Files

I still have the complete version if your interested.

[Atrocities]

As to all this other stuff. The information I have the better the chances are that it will be fixed.

[AngleWyrm]

From Enterprise 4x18, an updated large race portrait for the Tholians

http://home.comcast.net/~anglewyrm/Tholian.jpg

[Atrocities]

Indeed that was an interesting episode. I understand we will be seeing a Gorn soon as well.

After nearly 35 years we finally get to see a Tholian and I was not dissapointed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I better make a mental note to watch Enterprise tonight - that Tholian looks very, very, cool.

[mottlee]

Have any of you had this trouble....design ship, set tactics to what you want/need...upgrade/edit said design and the tat will defalt to "Don't get hurt"?!!!

Edit: I am also in Tac Combat getting "Scan Line Out Of Range" and locks up...Ctrl, Alt, Del to close http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Atrocities]

sounds like a SEIV bug to me Mottlee.

[mottlee]

So far I have not found SE to do it, I have however just reinstalled it after missplacing the CD will see if the stock game will do it too....thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Atrocities]

It could be the default strategy setting in the mod for that hull, I will look, but I sincerely believe this might be an SEIV bug.

[AngleWyrm]

Atrocities said:
Indeed that was an interesting episode. I understand we will be seeing a Gorn soon as well.



There was a scene where T'Pol said that one of the life signs on board the Defiant was reptilian. And there was the part where Archer said some humanoid labor can be bought for the right price.

My guess is that the reptilian on board is a Gorn, and that it might be Archer's spy!

[Kana]

AngleWyrm_2 said:
My guess is that the reptilian on board is a Gorn, and that it might be Archer's spy!



This was my thought as well...but it wouldn't fit with the time period of the Defiant going missing. There were very little relations with the Gorns and the Feds...and we all remember the episode where Kirk fights the Gorn...It was their first contact with them...

Kana

[Atrocities]

Its logical... albeit not plausable given it takes the federation another 100 years to meet the gorn... in "our" universe. But ya it would be nice to see a Gorn again. GET SCEEN SHOTS!

[Atrocities]

How was the episode, I missed it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Kana]

I some how missed it as well...I forgot it comes on Friday nights...grrr...Guess I will have to find it somewhere else...

[Captain Kwok]

The episode was decent and the Gorn was interesting, but considering it's tv, it does look a little cgi-ish. A good update on the look though. /threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif

[Atrocities]

I read that the budge for that episode was cut by over 50%.

Season 1 and 2 had 26 episodes
Season 3 was scheduled for 26, but dropped to 24.
Season 4 was scheduled for 24 but was dropped to 22 last January with the remaining episodes having their budgets cut by 50%.

Brandon Braga said it best when he said that UPN has morphed into something else.

At least they are talking about a new movie now... very early discussions with no garrentee.

[mottlee]

In this mod, are fighters real tuff to kill??? I am having a hard time with them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif even stack of 10 will take out a battle ship.

[Ragnarok-X]

just like i posted weeks ago http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[mottlee]

Just reinstalled SE4 to system....been out of the loop for about 6 months http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Atrocities]

Yes, this will be addressed in next patch. Fighters will be tuned down. And welcome back.

[El_Phil]

That'll be good. I've modded it abit myself to try and fix it, of course all I did was unbalance it the other way...

Still I find it more fun and that's the important thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Atrocities]

Shuttles will be a bit weaker but should be stronger than fighters when it comes to holding up.

The thing is, this next patch will most likely be a save game breaker. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[ToddT]

I just entered An STM mod game for the first time. Its definitely has a different feel.
I just did a quick look over of the a few things to get an idea of game change. I saw what appears to be a typo (maybe intentional) target tracking 6 has the same roman numeral as target tracker 5.
i saw the SIF component and curiosity got the better of me. In mod 1.9.0.9 and 1.9.1.2 the SIF effect does not track the same, nor as i had to begin to think in the former mod, not progress the way thought(1,2 ,3..).I haven't looked into TXT file and at the moment not inclined to. (in a game)
ps some most have a lot of free time on there hands http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

There was no change to the SIF from 1.9.0.9 to 1.9.1.2

Thanks for the bug report. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif