Pointer Mod -- v1.2 Released

[Urendi Maleldil]

Level I of every component and facility is there right now, so enjoy. I've already written some very basic AI which uses the QNP Hybrid system very well, but I've made some changes to the data files since then so the AI isn't playable right now. It uses the latest Version of the Image Mod.

This mod will require players to play differently depending on what techs they research. Because the tech tree dictates how a player will play it's been expanded and altered into separate tech branches. Racial techs have been incorporated into the main tree.

All ships require reactor components to move and the QNP Hybrid propulsion system should make for some interesting ship designs. Miniaturization is a factor at higher Construction tech.

There's a heavy emphasis on electronics and computers. Electronic components shrink in size very fast, but at highter tech levels cramming your ships full of sensors and things will make your individual ships more expensive.

You may see some things that remind you of your favorite scifi universes...

[Ed Kolis]

Level 1 of components and facilities are finished?
/me inserts shameless plug for my Templatizer (http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/SE4_Templatizer.rar) program! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Why do the colony modules get more expensive as you increase in tech level, with only a marginal increase in cargo capacity?

Incidentally, where'd you get the name "Pointer Mod" from? All the references to other mods? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

I've been using the Tech Gridder to expand all the components and stuff. What does your Templatizer do? Same thing? I've been doing most of this by hand.

As for the Colony components, I don't really know why they increase in cost. That's really dumb. I'll just put them back the other way.

[Ed Kolis]

This templatizer does pretty much the same thing as the tech gridder, yeah. Just in a different way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

Finished all the weapons now. Just Stellar Manipulation and Facilities to finish.

I think I'll make the crew quarters and life support work with the scale mounts like the engines.

[Urendi Maleldil]

I'm done with all the components now and almost all of the facilities. I've started working on the AI, but I can't get them to design colony ships. Arrggg!

[Fyron]

AI designing colony ships in mods can be a real nightmare... do you have any scale mounts involved? For Adamant, I have a scale mount required for colony modules to be mounted. This confused the AI to no end, and it ended up adding eihter none, or 2-3 of them. I ended up with this design:

================================================== ===

Name := Colony (Rock)
Design Type := Colony (Rock)
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Don't Get Hurt
Size Minimum Tonnage := 661
Size Maximum Tonnage := 661
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 0
Minimum Speed := 24
Desired Speed := 24
...
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Ability := Colonize Planet - Rock
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 4
Misc Ability 1 Name := miscellaneous abilities not related to colony ships.

================================================== ===

The AI designed all colony ships with only one colony module. However, this caused the AI to design all types of colony ships (Rock, Ice, and Gas) from the beginning of the game. Ice and Gas ships had no colony modules. It was strange. So, I added three new components that do absolutely nothing, are free, require 0 kT, and have 1 hit point, one for each colony type. They require the appropriate colony tech. They have only ability AI Tag 10, 11 or 12, depending on the type of colony ship. The new colony ship design looks like this:

================================================== ===

Name := Colony (Rock)
Design Type := Colony (Rock)
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Don't Get Hurt
Size Minimum Tonnage := 661
Size Maximum Tonnage := 661
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := AI Tag 10
Minimum Speed := 24
Desired Speed := 24
...
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Ability := Colonize Planet - Rock
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 4
Misc Ability 1 Name := miscellaneous abilities not related to colony ships.

================================================== ===

Now, the AI designs colony ships with a single colony module, and can only design an Ice colony ship when it has that dummy component available, which is the same time it has Ice Colony Modules available.

Hopefully that was of some use to you...

[bearclaw]

Couldn't you just have put an AI Tag on the colony modules?

[Urendi Maleldil]

I'm using scale mounts, but not on the colony components. Just on the engines and supply components.

I tried cutting and pasting the default AI colony ship designs, but the AI designs nothing. Not even crappy colony ships that don't go anywhere.


/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif BTW, here's the latest Version. All components are done and I even threw in a MAC gun a la Halo 2.

[Fyron]

bearclaw said:
Couldn't you just have put an AI Tag on the colony modules?

The AI adds a colony module to the ship design on its own. Normally, without using mounts, it seems to not place a second one on there from the must have abilities. But when the components are mounted, it seems to confuse the AI and it places 2 or 0... I don't forsee an AI Tag on the colony module itself being of use, though it is possible...

[Fyron]

Urendi Maleldil said:
I'm using scale mounts, but not on the colony components. Just on the engines and supply components.

I tried cutting and pasting the default AI colony ship designs, but the AI designs nothing. Not even crappy colony ships that don't go anywhere.


/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif BTW, here's the latest Version. All components are done and I even threw in a MAC gun a la Halo 2.

You might want to note that "minimum speed" does not refer to speed, or standard movement points, but rather to number of engines (components with any value of standard movement points). This causes many headaches and much confusion in any sort of scaled movement system...

[Urendi Maleldil]

I don't think the minimum/desired speed is the problem. I've tweaked that already. I might not've changed it back though since I pasted the default Colony Ship design in there.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Okay. I'm completely baffled. The AI won't design colony ships, but will build them if I design them. I tried renaming the ship size to "Colony Ship" but that didn't work.

For some reason whenever you start a game, whichever planet type you choose, the AI always starts out with "Ice Colonization" researched instead of rock or gas or whatever.

It's really funny because even though the AI has the Ice Colony module available, it won't build Ice Colony ships. And not only are the ice planets marked as colonizable, but also the planet type you selected when you set up the game, even though you don't have that tech researched or that component available.

It's probably related to why the AI isn't building colony ships. I tried moving the colony techs to the top of the TechAreas file just like they are in the stock one, but that didn't work.

Rock Oxygen is listed in the AI Settings file.

I've tried starting the game with all three planet types.

/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif BTW, here's the latest Version.

[Urendi Maleldil]

I found this note in the DevNull Mod:


Revision 1.27 2001/04/25 11:32:30 devnull
-Apparently, universal colony always needs to be placed before the other colony types in components.txt or it
is used by default instead of the player's planet-type colonization. Wierd.



I put the Universal Colony module in front of everything else and the AI planet type selection is back to normal, but it still won't design Colony Ships. Weird.

HelpHelpHelpHelpHelp! One weird problem on top of another!

[Fyron]

Your mod needs Savegame and Empires folders...

Universal colony modules have to come before the normal ones because SE4 assigns colony techs by adding the first tech req of the Last component with the ability corresponding to your homeworld type in the file.

This is your problem, in AI_Settings.txt:

Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Amount := 510
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Num Turns := 10
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Amount := 610
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Num Turns := 20
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Amount := 0
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Num Turns := 0

The AI can not design ships larger than 510 kT for the first 10 turns, then it can not design ships larger than 610 kT for 10 turns (until turn 20). Raise these values, and the AI designs the ships. They have no supplies with your current setup, but that is another issue entirely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

That looks like the problem. I'll let you know how it works, then I'll add those supply components back in again.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Works like a charm. The AI is designing ships no problem. I'm just having a little problem with the propulsion system. I'll go into more detail when I upload the latest Version of the mod.

[Urendi Maleldil]

While I'm finishing up the data files I'd like some critiques. I'm particularly proud of the propulsion system, but ships designed in this mod are quite a bit different from those in the stock game (or even one used in QNP mods).

The average propulsion scheme should be three engines and one "reactor". That will take up about 50% of the ship's tonnage. Don't be afraid of loosing space to put weapons and stuff though. Miniaturization is taken into account, starts happening right away as you travel up the Construction tech branch, and you'll see a greater miniaturization benefits on larger ships. You can, of course, also add more or fewer engines and "Reactors" as you see fit.

Here's the latest Version. Everything is nearly complete except for the AI. It looks like battles will be mostly defensive until someone develops capital ships. Light attack ships are cheaper, lightly armed and fast, but won't have the destructive potential of a space station.

It looks like the cap ships will have much more power to take on those pesky stations, but the strategy you use will depend on what ships you build and in what proportions. Missiles will be good against stationary targets and cap ships, but only effective when fired in Groups because of enemy point-defense.

Fighters look like they will be a good strategy. And MAC gun-armed defensive platforms will be an excellent at warp point defense until you move up either the Laser or Particle Beam tech branch. If your Fighter research is high enough you can even put mini MAC guns on Shuttles.

I'm still fiddling with the research costs, so any input would be appreciated. Also keep your eye out for redundant components and facilities (things that do the same thing). I want to streamline things as much as possible. I think I've gotten rid of most of them.

Sorry to all those who play Religious races. I haven't developed the Religeous racial trait at all and will probably drop it from the mod and replace it with something else.

Right now the Pointer Mod uses Fyron's Quadrant Mod deluxe, but I might build my own stellar object files to fit the strategies of this mod.

So download, give lots of input, and happy hunting.

[Timstone]

The mod sounds great sofar, Urendi. I still have a question.
I really like long games with relatively slow tech progress. That way you have to do a long time with your weapons before something new is on the market. Is a situation also possible in your mod?

[Urendi Maleldil]

The tech costs are not set yet, but some of the techs will be more expensive than others. Construction will be cheap early on, so the race you play will have access to a wide variety of strategic options right away, but many of the other techs will be expensive enough to work for.

Obvious expensive techs are some of the capital ship hulls, and weapons like Phasers, Turbolasers, and Megascale Engineering.

But some less obvious conceptual tech levels will be higher as well like "Propulsion" or "Torpedo Weapons". Those have very few levels (Torpedo Weapons only has one), but open up greater options for tech branches that have already been researched.

For example, researching Propulsion by itself gives you nothing, but once you have progressed up the Plasma Technology branch, Plasma Engines require Propulsion level 2.

I haven't messed with the "Raise Level" option yet. That would change the research speed of various techs. I've designed the tech tree so that researching everything in a single game will be next to impossible. Research in some techs should go slightly slower than the stock game, but a few of the main brances are a little cheaper so while the research might be slower, the pace of the game seems faster.

[Timstone]

Thanks for the answer Urendi.
I hope the mod will be available soon.

I was busy making my own mod, but due to graduation and the limitations of SE IV I stopped all work on it.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Here's the next Version of the Pointer Mod. Everything's done except for the AI, 3 facilities, and 3 weapons I just added.

But the AI really needs your help. I'm not much good when it comes to modding those buggers. Everything's working fine except for the AI.

If anyone will write a good workable AI script, I'll put your name on it, and package it with the mod. I will also concede that you are a better modder than I.

Also we need people to test the Mod in multiplayer. I'm not much of a PBW guy (don't have the time). The tech tree for the Pointer Mod is completely different from the stock tree. So if you want something new, this is it.

[Sefter Aruna]

hey! love the mod! I agree that you need to fix the AI... but I am sorry, I can't help you there. I have found that moding the AI is about the hardest part in the game. as to testing it on PBW, that will be easy... I know a few ppl that might be willing to start a game.

[Urendi Maleldil]

I've reduced the size and power of the MAC gun. I's more useable now. I've also made the zero gravity penalty on ship designs dependant on hull size. That will give players easier maintenance on smaller ships, and they'll be able to expand faster in the early game.

[Fyron]

Urendi Maleldil said:
Here's the next Version of the Pointer Mod.

Where? I saw no attachment to your post.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Oops. I thought I put it in there.

Here it is.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Okaaay. The AI is designing some sweet ships now, using all the techs they're researching, but for some reason they refuse to explore. I had a single entry for "Attack Ship" in the AI_DesignCreation.txt file and they worked fine, but when I added multiple entries for "Attack Ship" for different sizes they just lost all their will to "boldly go where no AI has gone before". I even tried using different names for the ship entries like the TDM AIs.

On another note, they colonize great. Colony ships are zipping every which way as we speak. And the AI is designing and building ships just fine, but it really would be great to see those nuclear missile dreadnoughts actually go out and "destroy strange new worlds and new civilizations".

[Fyron]

Do you have the larger Versions of "Attack Ship" before or after the smaller Versions?

One method that seems to work well for me is to use the "Attack Base" design type for scout ships. These ships have minimal weapons and lots of supply, for long range. Have the AI build a few of them, and it will use them as scouts.

[Aiken]

Urendi, could you separate commercial and non-commercial Versions of facilities to a different facility families? Or am I obliged to use commercial Versions only?

[Urendi Maleldil]

The Facility families thing is a bug. I forgot to change the family numbers when I created them. I'll change them when I upload the newest Version.

(Fyron) The designs are in order from largest to smallest.

[Urendi Maleldil]

And I still need Savegame and Empire folders

[Urendi Maleldil]

Here's the next Version. Commercial Facility family numbers are now different from their normal counterparts. Let me know how the balance is with the commercial "maintenance cost". There are now Savegame and Empires directories too.

This includes the latest AI I'm working with (Terrans)

[Urendi Maleldil]

Latest updates:

1/3/05
decreased range of Grav Lance
increased Ion Cannon reload time
reduced size of Reflex Missile
reduced size of Counter Missile
added Fighter Electronics Mount
fixed Astromech Droid for use on Ships, Bases, Satellites, Fighters, Weapon Platforms
fixed Fighter Shield Mount to use all shields
added AI Tag description to Stasis Field, Astromech Droid, Biohazardous Waste, and Radioactive Waste
added AI Tag 06 ability to Light Sail and Magnetic Sail
removed Direct Fire Troop Mount (not needed)
reduced size of Tachyon Warhead, Nuclear Warhead, Plasma Warhead, Antimatter Warhead, Subspace Warhead, Gravitic Warhead, and Reflex Warhead to 20 so they fit on mines better.
changed family number of the Medical Unit (was duplicate of Motivation Unit)
removed Defense Platform Deployer (was causing AI problems)
increased cargo capacity of Cargo Bay
Test AI now uses Solar Arrays and Light Sails on scout ships if they are available instead of regular engines

[Combat Wombat]

Can you give us a summary about what your grand goal for this mod is? What makes the Pointer Mod unique from other mods?

[Urendi Maleldil]

I guess there's a lot of little things I've done in this mod, but only two main things:

1. The Tech Tree
It's totally redesigned. Whatever combinations of techs an empire researches better affects the way that empire will play the game.

Physics gives bigger guns, faster engines. Construction gives you your ship hulls and will eventually yield Megascale engineering (for orbital towers, ringworlds, space habs, and that kind of stuff). Economics research gives greater production capacity, but is a greater drain on your empire's economy if managed poorly. Psychology/Sociology and Biology/Chemistry allow you to manage population better and help you secure your empire. (Unless you're a Psychic or Organic race. Then you'll find all your cool technologies there)

Some research is almost indispensable. Every race will probably want to research Construction till they get at least cruisers and Physics till they get Nukes. You can go without these techs, but you'll have a slower time expanding
and a hard time defending against an enemiy's fully-loaded Nuclear Missile Cruiser.

I've incorporated things from books, movies and tv shows that I would like to have seen in the game and plugged them into the tech tree where they would work the best. The most famous are probably the Phasers and the Superlasers, but I'm particularly fond of the Psychohistory facilities.


2. Ship Design
Propulsion:
I originally just wanted something better than the QNP propulsion system. I liked the mQNP idea, but it had limitations too. So I decided to combine them into a hybrid system.

I wanted ship designs to devote a large percentage of their tonnage to vital systems. As it stands now ships using Construction Level 1 mounts will give a little over 50% of their hull space to engines, bridge, CQ, Life Support and supply components. Miniaturization is included in the mounts as a race researches up the construction tree.

Engines per Move = (Ship kT * 2 / 1000) > 0
Engine mount reduction = (Ship Kt / 10) - Miniaturization Level

Using this system means that capital ships (Cruisers, Dreads, Battleships) have much more useable space than smaller ships and can pack more of a punch in battle.

This also makes Stations and Satellites more valuable because they don't have to use up that 50% and can devote 100% to weapons or whatever.

The system isn't perfect *yet*. Right now a 200kT Frigate has about 10kT less useable space than a 150kT Escort. A minor adjustment, but everything else is fine.

--------------------------------------------------------

As for the little things, they're too numerous to count.

I increased the value of electronics by making them really small. (as they should be)

Military Science gives you some interesting tactical weapons like the Seeker Decoy and Chaff and also opens up new weapon types.

As I've built the mod new things keep appearing automatically. For example there appear to be four distinct types of direct-fire weapons:

* Heavy weapons: MAC gun, Superlaser, Reflex Cannon, Grav Lance, Ion Cannon, Disintegrator, Graviton Hellbore
* Medium Weapons: Phaser, Disruptor, Turbolaser, Antiproton Cannon, Fusion Beam Cannon, Plasma Cannon
* Light Weapons: Laser, Railgun, Meson Cannon, Graser Cannon, Plasma BLaster
* Torpedo Weapons: Plasma, Gravimetric, Antimatter, Subspace, Quantum

They're all good at different things. I didn't plan them that way, they just came out that way. It's like I'm not the only one working on this mod. Weird.

It's a long summary I know, but I was on a roll. I hope this answers some of your questions.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Latest Updates:
I've moved to New York and I'm busy scouting the city for work. Never fear though. Work progresses on the Mod. Facility.txt is now complete. AI is a little better, but modding them is a little more time-consuming than modding the data files.

1/8/05
changed resource usage on commercial facilities
removed Cloning Center facility (duplicate of Gestation Vats)
added Gestation Vats II-V
added Replicant Center II-V
added Commercial Ecology Center II-V

[Urendi Maleldil]

Here's the latest Version

Updates: Filled in a few blanks and added in a few of the things I've been planning. I've totally fixed the hull sizes. Now there's a reason to actually build 200kt frigates instead of 150kt escorts.

To do: Still gotta get the AI up and running. Seems like once I fix one problem another one comes creeping up on me. There's one success though: the AI will design Scout ships with normal engines and supply components and then design them with Light Sails and Solar Arrays when they become available.

I tried doing the same thing with Transports and Colony Ships, but it just adds a wierd number of Cargo Bays and colony components instead. Maybe one of you guys can figurte it out.

Updates list:
1/12/05
added One Per Vehicle restriction to Stasis Field
added Launch Rail II-V
added Hyperspace Jump Gate II-V
added Hyperjump Drive Initiator II-V
added Hyperjump Drive Terminator II-V
added Ion Cannon II-V
added Grav Lance II-V
added Planetary Mass Driver II-V
added Reflex Missile II-V
added Reflex Warhead II-V
added Orbital Foundry I-V
added Orbital Refinery I-V
added Orbital Hydroponics I-V
increased Minerals Extraction tech area to 8
increased Radioactives Extraction tech area to 8
removed Resource Extraction tech area (no longer used)
added Orbital Academy I-V

1/11/05
added Hyperspace Jump Gate I (for B5 style propulsion)
added Hyperjump Drive Initiator I
added Hyperjump Drive Terminator I
added Planetary Mass Driver I
added Launch Rail I
increased cargo capacity of Rider Bay
increased cargo capacity of Cargo Bay
added Garbage tech area
fixed Transwarp Engine roman numerals
fixed ship hull sizes


Edit: corrected bad download

[Ed Kolis]

Any chance of an upcoming PBW test game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

That's something I'd really like to do. I'll see what I can put together. Bear in mind that I've never used PBW before and I don't have a constant conection to the internet, so the game might go a little slow. I actually use various free wireless access points around the city.

It'll be good to see what real people can do with this mod. It'll be a welcome change from the AI, who are only effective at making you pull your own hair out by the roots.

[Urendi Maleldil]

AI success!!

The AI is now puttering aroung the galaxy, exploring, and doing what the AI does. They handle resources poorly and their tactical prowess is atrocious, but they work.

Although for some reason they insist on putting Scout Infantry on all their ships. That's a troop component. I have no idea why they do that. Another day, another problem.

[Atrocities]

Urendi Maleldil said:
AI success!!

The AI is now puttering aroung the galaxy, exploring, and doing what the AI does. They handle resources poorly and their tactical prowess is atrocious, but they work.





Welcome to my world. I tell you if I could get the damn Ai to work right, I would kiss them.

[Fyron]

This is because it has the same family number as a ship component. You must _never_ have the same family numbers on such families of vehicle-specific components. The AI is very stupid and interprets that Scout Infantry as the most advanced Version of the family of components that it really wants to use on the ship.

This problem will also manifest itself in some very quirky upgrade bugs.

[Urendi Maleldil]

New updates. The next release we'll call "Version 1.0." Yes. I know the Last Versions were all called "Version 0.9" but I'm not a programmer and usually don't pay attention to things like that. I want to clean a fe more things up for "Version 1.0." Then we'll start a PBW game to test everything out. I think I figured that PBW thing out. Just let me know what ship set you want to use and I'll put them in the mod for the PBW game.

Here are the latest updates. Drones are now more like ordinance.

1/16/05
added drone mounts
reduced size of Drones and Tactical Drones
renamed Drone Launcher to Drone Magazine
changed cargo capacity of Drone Magazine to match new drone sizes
reduced size of Drone Computer Core
fixed scale mounts (wasn't with Antimatter Impulse Engine)
increased size of 2150kt Baseship hull
added specialty mounts for use on ships that use normal weapon sizes
changed "Vehicle List Type Override" to "Vechicle List Type Override" (the correct spelling doesn't work, but the typo does)
removed Motivation Unit (my Version was dumb anyway)
removed Scout Infantry (was showing up on ship, base, sat, and weapon platform AI designs for some reason)

[Urendi Maleldil]

Here's the Version 1.0 update. There are only two AI races that work and I haven't converted the Default AI or the Neutrals, so stick with multiplayer for now unless you just want to explore the mod. You'll need the latest Version of the Image Mod, the Neo-standard, and Fyron's Quadrant Mod Deluxe installed to your normal SE4 directory.

1/18/04
added Engineering Replicator II-V
reduced size of all Electronics to 1/3
removed Fighter and Drone Electronics mounts (no longer needed)
added "Vehicle Size Maximum := 99" to Fighter mounts

Post here if you want to participate in the PBW game. Let's see how many players we'll have.

[Ed Kolis]

Mesa do! Mesa do! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ed Kolis]

Imperator Fyron said:
Your mod needs Savegame and Empires folders...



No it doesn't. First thing I do every time I download a mod is delete the savegame folder - I don't like saving all my PBW turns to different places depending on which mod my game happens to be using http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

edit: crap, I replied to a post on the FIRST page of the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Fyron]

Ed Kolis said:

Imperator Fyron said:
Your mod needs Savegame and Empires folders...



No it doesn't. First thing I do every time I download a mod is delete the savegame folder - I don't like saving all my PBW turns to different places depending on which mod my game happens to be using http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

edit: crap, I replied to a post on the FIRST page of the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Indeed you did. Didn't we already talk about this anyways? Just because you are weird doesn't mean the mod doesn't need Savegame and Empires folders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

edit: I am certain that was some horrible butchery of the English language I just performed there... oh well.

[Urendi Maleldil]

How about I make a special release of the Pointer Mod without the save game folder and call it "The Pointer Mod: Ed Kolis's Special Edition?"

Meanwhile, if you want in on the PBW game I need to know what ship set you'll be using so I can create a directory for it in Pictures\Races.

[Ed Kolis]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

No, you don't need to create a directory for it in Pictures\Races - I can just delete that too and the stock directory with my whole shipset collection will be used http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Unless some players are planning on missing their turns and want a special AI running on PBW??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

I studied the PBW FAQ a little more. I think I understand now. I'll set up the game as soon as the admins instal The Pointer Mod onto the PBW system.

[Urendi Maleldil]

I've just opened a new game at PBW called "The Pointer Mod game."

Please join and enjoy the mod. The game is open to everybody.

http://seiv.pbw.cc/

[Urendi Maleldil]

Three spots left for those who want to get in on this game.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Pointer Mod v1.1 released. Fixed a few bugs, balanced a few things, got rid of a few loose ends. Don't forget to sign up for The Pointer Mod PBW game. We're starting Friday (tomorrow).

1/26/05
increased resouce generation for standard resource facilities
removed Space Port II-V
added Supply Generation and Spaceport abilities to later City, Organic City, Crystal City, Arcology, Orbital Tower and Orbital Ring facilities
removed Quantum Reactor I-III (same as Hyperspace Tap)

1/25/05
increased range of Seeker Decoy
increased reload rate of Counter Missile
reduced supply usage of all weapons
now only troop components available for troops

[VaultDweller]

I'm checking the mod out in singleplayer right now. The only bug I've found is this: When in the build queue for a planet I right click on Commercial Mineral Storage I, I receive a stream error and it displays no information.

One positive thing I can say is that you've made organics and radioactives more important, which I think is a good thing.

[ironman]

The facilities pics "Images 601 to 655
- Images extracted from Galactic Civilizations (© 2002, Stardock) and compiled for use in Space Empires IV by Imperator Fyron" NEED to be redone to standard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif BMP's

I redid mine with Irfanview /threads/images/Graemlins/icon29.gif and now work fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

I ran into that problem too. I just opened the images in Photoshop and re-saved them as .bmp files

[VaultDweller]

Thanks for the advice, I'll try that when I get home today.

So far the mod is pretty interesting. It seems to slow down the inital rush for colonization nicely.

[VaultDweller]

I found a bug that's a pain. It happens when upgrading facilites.

Specifcally with Commercial Radioactive Storage facilities.
WHile on the main screen click on the wrench to view all build queues. Then click upgrade facilites. All colonies with commercial radioactive storage that are due to be upgraded to the next level will be upgraded to the next level of organic not radioactive.

EDIT: I've done some looking in the facilites.txt, it looks like Commercial Organic Warehouse and Commercial Radioactive Warehouse have the same facility family number, which is 1041.

So:

Commercial Radioactive Storage I
upgrades to
Commercial Organic Storage II

[Fyron]

ironman said:
The facilities pics "Images 601 to 655
- Images extracted from Galactic Civilizations (© 2002, Stardock) and compiled for use in Space Empires IV by Imperator Fyron" NEED to be redone to standard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif BMP's

I redid mine with Irfanview /threads/images/Graemlins/icon29.gif and now work fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

They work just fine for me... What OS are you running?

[ironman]

win xp pro with 512 mem and 40 gig hd it's a p3 duron chipset ati 32 mg video card

[Urendi Maleldil]

VaultDweller said:
Commercial Organic Warehouse and Commercial Radioactive Warehouse have the same facility family number, which is 1041.




No problem. I'll fix that in v1.2.

[Fyron]

ironman said:
win xp pro with 512 mem and 40 gig hd it's a p3 duron chipset ati 32 mg video card

Now that is really weird... There have been problems with BMPs created in MS Paint under win2k or winXP not working in SE4 in win98, but I've never heard of them not working in winXP. I could have sworn SE4 was able to load these images before... There is something terribly buggy in how SE4 reads image files.

[ironman]

well we ARE dealing with Microsoft here /threads/images/Graemlins/WinLogo.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[VaultDweller]

Urendi

I just wanted to say this a great mod, and it's gotten me motivated to dig through the data files and to learn the nuts and bolts of the different files.

[Urendi Maleldil]

I'm working on the AI again. The most troublesome has to be the DesignCreation.txt.

1. The Required Ability seems to work for some ship types and not for others. I have two required abilities. The second one is Supply Storage. It works on attack ships. Designs add engines, then one weapon (req 1), then the supply storage (req 2)component, then the rest of the components as normal. But the transports seem to add the engines, then five Cargo Bays (req 1) before adding the supply component. This leaves smaller ships without a supply storage component. How does this field actually work?

2. Prefabricated Fortifications (PF), a troop-only component is showing up on Ship and Base designs. It has a unique family number and so it shouldn't be an accidental upgrade. For some reason the AI designs a ship without the PFs and in later turns it will design an identical ship with a whole bunch of PFs tacked onto the end (they're small components). Is there something I can do to prevent the AI from doing this?

3. The AI will have perfectly useable ships and plenty of unexplored warp points, but all the non-colony ships will just sit there. I ran a test game and the AI didn't seem interested in the other warp points until about turn 42. What could keep the AI from exploring?

[Urendi Maleldil]

Ahh!. Thanks to Atraikus's AI Modding cheat sheet, almost all my AI problems are now solved.

If you have a Req Ability like Cargo Storage that has a required percentage on the hull size, the AI will add that percentage of component plus one.

The default AI is now completely working!

I have no idea why the AI wasn't exploring before and I still can't figure out why the AI keeps putting the Prefab Fortifications on ships though. The AI's just adding them at the end. They don't affect ship performance, so I'm not really worried yet.

[Ed Kolis]

They're not the same family as some other component which is used on ships, are they? The AI is notorious for ignoring restrictions such as "small weapons only go on fighters and troops" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Urendi Maleldil]

Yeah. I checked the families. They're fine. I even changed the old family number to a new one just in case, but that didn't work.

The only ability the Prefabs have is the Armor ability. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause the AI to put them on a design.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Latest progress on v1.2

2/18/05
Abbidon, Amon'krie, Terran and Cryslonite AI now works
increased supply storage for reactors
added tech requirement to High Energy Magnifier
fixed Navigational Shield maintenance reduction
normal missiles now have a standard refire rate of 6
normal torpedos now have a standard refire rate of 5

2/17/05
increased damage of Laser
reduced size of Rotating Gravity Module
default AI now wickeder than ever before!
Railguns now target Fighters and Drones

2/6/05
reduced size of Chemical Booster
changed family number of Commercial Radioactives Warehouse
reduced zero gravity penalty for 100kt Transport

2/1/05
added Supply Storage ability to Tactical Fighters and Tactical Drones (they now work as advertised)

[Urendi Maleldil]

Pointer Mod v1.2 released. Some of the AI works. It will keep you busy, but it's not going to crush you.

The next version will be 2.0 and contain a new tech tree that's easier to use and AI_research.txt friendly.

[VaultDweller]

Urendi

I do like the technologies you've made and the tech tree itself, hopefully you won't have to make too many changes to it.

[Fyron]

Urendi Maleldil said:
Yeah. I checked the families. They're fine. I even changed the old family number to a new one just in case, but that didn't work.

The only ability the Prefabs have is the Armor ability. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause the AI to put them on a design.

Perhaps you are falling victim to this line:

Armor Spaces Per One := 1200

The "most advanced" armor component will be used to satisfy this requirement. You can force the AI to view something else as the "most advanced" armor by adding a bunch of redundant tech reqs to it so that it requires more total tech levels than the Prefab components do. You can have 5 or 6 "Armor 1" tech reqs if necessary.

Alternatively, you could add a tech area with a bunch of levels (20 or more) specifically for this purpose. All races would start with max levels in it, and all it is for is to make the AI view what you want it to view as the "most advanced" component. Since it will always have every level of this tech area, the tech tree itself will be wholely unaffected. I have put such practices to effective use in Adamant.

[Urendi Maleldil]

That could be it. I've used the extra techs trick on other components. I'll try it on the Prefabs.

The new tech tree will be a little easier to use. It will be easier to mod the AI to and it will eliminate researching useless things before you get something you like.

ie, if you're using phasers and all of a sudden you want turbolasers you won't have to start by researhing puny little 6 damage lasers first.

[VaultDweller]

A side thought about technology...

Have you considered having the progression from cities upto orbital towers be upgradible?

It could help AI's who do build urban tech because when you get to the highest level city you must destroy the city in order to build an arcology, ect.

I'm not sure how much the tech tree would need to be changed, but I'd think that it would be easier for both people and the AI to take advantage of the tech that way.

Second question: What does the commercial shipping tech do?

[VaultDweller]

Urendi

I'm playing/testing the new mod right now and I'm curious about Shipping Office I. As I understand it, it should be improving the value(mineral, organic, radiation) of all my planets in a system by 1% per turn. It doesn't look to be working right now.

Thanks

VaultDweller

[Atrocities]

It might be 1% every 10 turns or so.

[VaultDweller]

Hmm...That does sound about right, I'll have to double check the description for how often the improvement occurs.

EDIT: Checked the description and it does say per turn, not per year.

[Ed Kolis]

Those abilities only take effect once per year (10 turns), not once per turn. Do they say once per turn in the mod files?

[VaultDweller]

The description of the the facility states once per turn. I'm just going to run 10 turns by and check the planet values.

EDIT: Ran through the 10 turns after construction and it worked like a charm.

Thanks for letting me know that it takes 10 turns Ed and Atrocities.

[Urendi Maleldil]

I thought it was just once per turn like every other ability. I'll change the description to say "Once per year"

I am actually going to combine the families in v2.0 for a lot of things making them upgradeable. I'm combining all the reactors into one family as well as the engines. I'll do the same for the cities since Arcologies are on the high end of the Urban tech anyway and they do the same thing.

[VaultDweller]

Urendi

I've been checking on the AI periodically to see how it's doing. The Abaddon seem to be making ships well and playing strongly. The Sergetti on the other hand are making ships with engines, but not reactors. The Praetorians seem to be up to the same foolishness. Another thing of note is that they are putting multiple navigational shields on their designs as well. I'm not sure if the benefits for the nav shield stack or it might be a good idea to find a way to make that component limited to 1 per ship.

By the way I'm enjoying the PBW game we've got going with the older mod.

Hope this stuff I find is usefull.

VaultDweller

[Urendi Maleldil]

Some of the races don't have the ai done yet, so they're building ships according to the stock data files, which means they don't build ships with reactors and use too many engines.

They're using multiple nav shields because that's the only shield component they have.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Unfortunately my computer caught a virus and now won't boot up. I'll have to do a system resore from the factory partition, which means SE4 will be gone from my harddrive along with Pointer v2.0

I'll be back to work though as soon as my computer is resored and I get my SE4 gold cd mailed to me from Wisconsin.

[VaultDweller]

Urendi

How's things going with the system restore?

Also, have you heard anything from Ekolis?

VaultDweller

[Urendi Maleldil]

I haven't gotten ahold of a Windows XP disk yet. I should be getting mine in the mail any day now.

I haven't heard from Ed, but as soon as I do and my computer is running again, we can continue the game.

[VaultDweller]

Urendi

Is your computer up yet? I'm looking forward to keeping the PBW going. I've also still been testing the newest version of the mod.

VaultDweller

[Urendi Maleldil]

My computer's running fine now and I managed to save the work I'm doing on Pointer Mod 2.0. As far as the PBW game, we're waiting for Ed Kolis's turn.

[VaultDweller]

Sounds good to me.

By the way the cryslonite AI seems to pretty well building facilities, colonizing, and making attack ships. All AI races seem to need a little help with building Carriers better(they don't put any cargo bays in).

Hyperdrives don't seem to work at all. Although, the jump drives are great. I like the many choices of engine you make available. In each speed range you can choose from cheaper drives that are just good for propulsion to higher end drives that give bonus movement or shields...I'm a big fan of the gravity well drives.

One of the silly things that the AI does is put Prefabricated Fortifications on somee of their ships. I know that's a troop component, but somehow they do that.

Glad to hear your machine works!

Vaultdweller

[Urendi Maleldil]

Yeah. I have no idea why the AI does that. If I could figure it out, maybe I can use the same effect in the Cheaters AI I'm working on.

[Captain Kwok]

When there's extra space on a ship design that can't be filled by the majority component - the best armor per kT (that fits, troop or whatever) is put on to fill the leftover space.

[Urendi Maleldil]

Ahh, So the game does calculate the best armor as a size/strength ratio.