OT: Totally P!ssed off at UPN [Archive]

Atrocities

February 2nd, 2005, 09:15 PM

We saw this coming two years ago. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif UPN is just a horrid network. Enterprise would have been far more popular if it had gone into sindication like STNG and DS9 had. I love Enterprise and hate to see it go. Even with all of the gay *** violation of established Trek history, it was a good series to watch. In the end they could have explained it all away as a temperal shiver or something.

This is what happens when you let people who hate TOS and STNG run things. Oh well. UPN is just a horrid network.

And on a side note. The quality of Stargate has begun to slip with its last few episodes. I am sickened at how the Sci-Fi channel has adversily influenced the production quality of Stargate SG1. These last few episodes just lack the finished feel that the series has pioneered. They seem more like the fast paced, poorly editted Andromeda series than they do SG1.

Starhawk

February 2nd, 2005, 09:27 PM

UPN Sucks raw butt, that's a fact, but I wish that Enterprise would find a new home.

Atrocities

February 2nd, 2005, 09:43 PM

Lets face it, we all knew that they would be lucky to see five seasons. It angers me greatly that the series was shuffled butted around on that god forsaken crap network UPN, but that is the name of the game when your dealing with idiot dribble like the SOB's that run UPN. Hell my retard stepbrother could run UPN far better than the momma's boys they got now.

And WTF was paramount thinking any ways? It sickens me that they would produce seven years of that shudder inducing, barf summoning Voyager, but cancel ENT after only four simple getting to know you seasons.

This is just a clear indication of how utterly enept the people running Paramount, Star Trek, and UPN are. They refuse to listen to the fans, play shuffle board with the time slots, and employ hack writers to come up with "Romulan" episodes for a series that by all rights SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD Romulans in it.

Oh there was a work around for it, but again the idiot yuppies who were producing Enterprise refused to listen. The show suffored, the fan base evaporated, and now the show is all but failed. This is a sad day indeed. Not since TOS was cancelled have we seen such a thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

When you consider the fans stupid, and refuse to listen to what they are saying, and go ahead and produce episodes that decimate establish Trek lore, you get burned.

If I were producing Enterprise the first rule I would have had would have been to state that the Romulan Conflict happened BEFORE the series started. Or, even better, have the Romulan Conflict as the catalyst for Enterprise and not this crappy *** temperal war BS that was force fed to us.

The reason that no one knew what the Romulan looked like was because Star Fleet deemed it top secret in order to preserver the Human Vulcan alliance. Hell if people of earth found out that the people they just fought a war with were the direct ansestors of their ally, they would raise holly hell over it.

But oh no, this was to complicated for the Dumb arse over at Paramount to figure out.

The Klingon ridge issue could have been explained away as the Klingons while attempting to appear more human in order to inflitrate the Federation, suffored a horrific biological catastrophy that resulted in the genetic alteration of their appearance and swept through their poplulace like a raging plague.

The Klingons would be embarassed by this and would spend the next 120 years looking for a way to reverse it. This would explain away the differance between TOS and TMP klingons. Again, this was too complicated for the writers to figure out.

I am so PO'ed right now that I need to go do something else.

I should post this over at www.startrek.com (http://www.startrek.com)

(Remember you cannot use names when making direct comments about poeple because those named might sue you for emotional or professional distress. GD cry babies!)

Azselendor

February 2nd, 2005, 09:52 PM

Atrocities is right, UPN is a horrid network. They appeal only to the lowest common demoniator (like TNT) and demand more stupid, ethnic sterotypes (like TNT) and only aspire to sthrow more crap at the wall so something sticks (like TNT).

I feel like I'm watching Crusade....

"The series finale will air on Friday, May 13, 2005." Ironic.

Enterprise should have had the following done to it: Fire Brannon Braga. Berman was never a problem, his whole thing is that he makes shows profitable. Braga's whole thing is seeing how many former supermodels can prance around in his lap. Turn the writing staff over to Manny Coto and (if still living) DC Fontana and hire on Wolfe to round off the team. It should have been direct-to-syndication and also focused on an ensemble cast, not a specific three. Berman should not be allowed to 'pad' the music down. And finally, they should have stayed true to their misson statement for the series, not strayed.

But I am glad it got cancelled. Enterprise needed to be put down the moment we found out Reed was a Booty-Guy.

Captain Kwok

February 2nd, 2005, 10:01 PM

I wouldn't say that the show decimated established Trek lore. Some continunity breaches sure, but nothing that any other series didn't do. And to my knowledge, I didn't see any humans meeting Romulans... in fact, the way they did the last episode was quite effective and certainly helps establish future hostilities between the two - which would have started in season 5 by way of the timeline.

Randallw

February 2nd, 2005, 10:03 PM

a series that by all rights SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD Romulans in it.

What exactly was the problem?. As far as I know they had an episode with a Romulan minefield. Ok, that's where they meet. Lately they had the Romulans attacking, but as far as I know you never see a Romulan except by themselves.

Atrocities

February 2nd, 2005, 10:15 PM

The latest episodes have had romulans in them.

And for the record, I am not saying anything bad about Enterprise. I like the show. I simply feel, as do 90% of the fan base, that they should NEVER have use Romulans in the way that they did. Watch TOS "Balance Of Terror" and you will see why. Arguements about Romulans being included are nullified by that TOS episode. It should have been the basis for the series bible when dealing with the Romulans. Sure the Romulans could have been in the series, but not in the way that Brandon and company have used them. That is simply to much of a standing insult to the fan base and they made it clear that they are not happy. Four years and the series is toast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

FAN
"Why did you cancel Enterprise?"

UPN
"Enterprise simply did not meet the needs of our targetted demographic viewer base."

FAN
"What exactly does that mean?"

UPN
"After many days of targeted selection, we came to the conclusion that Enterprise was simply not deverse enough in its execution to meet the educational abilities of our targetted demographic audiance."

FAN
"Excuse me, I don't understand. What exactly does that mean?"

UPN
"Enterprise simply was to cerebral for our viewers."

FAN
"Then you consider your viewers to be stupid?"

UPN
"Exactly. Just look at our programing and you'll see why."

narf poit chez BOOM

February 2nd, 2005, 10:42 PM

Read a good book. Try David Weber, David Drake(Be carefull; some of his stuff goes way beyond R), Eric Flint, Ryk Spoor, Julia E. Czerneda(Beholder's Eye series), Katherine Kerr, Anne McAffrey(Pern series and Brainship series), some of David Eddings(A little preachy in places), Alan Dean Foster(Especially the Flinx books).

And that's just off the top of my head. Those writers can provide a lot more entertainment than just about any tv show, ever.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 2nd, 2005, 11:01 PM

Forgot Fred Saberhagen and Patricia C. Wrede.

Caduceus

February 3rd, 2005, 12:04 AM

Try Neal Stephenson - Cryptonomicon, Baroque Cycle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But it was a foregone conlusion at the beginning of the season that Enterprise wasn't going to a next season. It was not going to make it and therefore got moved to the timeslot of death. Friday night.

Starhawk

February 3rd, 2005, 12:20 AM

Yeah I read one thing from David Drake in the "Fleet Series" and the moment he started mentioning a guy finger ****ing a woman's bum I figured out he can go FAR beyond R lol.

Anyway Ent's writers were trying to get back on track this season as I understand it, and sadly UPN decided they are probobly gonna throw in yet another all black casted show just like they did when they replaced Special Unit 2 (which wasn't so great granted but THE PARKERS GAW!) anyway they suck and I hope ENT gets picked up by a network that knows what the hell they are doing.

[edit] Okay I just realized that might soudn racist, please let me explain:

A. Some of my best friends are of other races so I have no problem with black people.

B. I DO HOWEVER have a problem with the fact that every show has to have a "token black guy" to keep from being sued for this or that, yet we see shows like "The Parkers" and the like which have no white folks unless it's to make fun of them and they don't get in trouble.

C. I DO have a problem with UPN because they seem to be turning into a second BET and have killed good shows because they are not "ethnic" enough........think about it (rolleyes)

D. Again I have no problem with black people as a whole just when it falls into catagory B and C

Sivran

February 3rd, 2005, 12:23 AM

Atrocities said:
When you consider the fans stupid, and refuse to listen to what they are saying, and go ahead and produce episodes that decimate establish Trek lore, you get burned.

What established Star Trek lore? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif There are continuity breaches in practically every episode ever produced. Enterprise was nothing earth-shattering, in this respect.

If I were producing Enterprise the first rule I would have had would have been to state that the Romulan Conflict happened BEFORE the series started. Or, even better, have the Romulan Conflict as the catalyst for Enterprise and not this crappy *** temperal war BS that was force fed to us.

There was a theory bandied about that Enterprise wasn't really about the past, it was about the future Feds using the Enterprise as a pawn in their affairs. Also, when your lead is the former lead from Quantum Leap, Time Travel is to be expected.

The Klingon ridge issue could have been explained away as the Klingons while attempting to appear more human in order to inflitrate the Federation, suffored a horrific biological catastrophy that resulted in the genetic alteration of their appearance and swept through their poplulace like a raging plague.

The Klingons would be embarassed by this and would spend the next 120 years looking for a way to reverse it. This would explain away the differance between TOS and TMP klingons. Again, this was too complicated for the writers to figure out.

This IS in fact the official story-related explanation given, or something close to it anyway. It was more simplistic, ie, the klingons seen in TOS were the genetically altered variety, and the rest are the original stock.

The truth is less dramatic: they simply didn't have the money (or makeup technology) when TOS aired to give the klingons their intended appearance. (Source: Star Trek Memories, William Shatner)

Colonel

February 3rd, 2005, 12:39 AM

Wow angered trek fans, we need shelter lots of beer and food for the next few months. Now run go find this and get back before the Angered trek fans :p

Captain Kwok

February 3rd, 2005, 01:41 AM

We've seen Romulans, but the crew hasn't! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Anyway, I thought it was rather clever in the last episode with the remote controlled ship.

Furthermore, I think the series might be renewed if Enterprise fans are persuasive enough.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 3rd, 2005, 03:09 AM

I thought Special Unit 2 was hilarious and a breath of fresh air.

Oh yeah, currently watching unbreakable. Comments:

My Dad: "Turn the goofy light on!"
Shortly after:
Dad: "Could you pause it so I can go to the bathroom?"

Me: "I thought it was paused."

It is interesting, it's just that they could have cut it down to 30-40 minutes without loosing much.

Have to add an exchange that just happened:

Me: "Well, we started watching about 8:30 so there's probably only a half-hour left."

Dad: "We still havn't watched the second disk."

Me: "That's special features."

We looked at each other and burst out laughing. You might have to have watched it to get it.

Dad: "What, will they show it with the lights on?"

Atrocities

February 3rd, 2005, 03:44 AM

Captain Kwok said:
We've seen Romulans, but the crew hasn't! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Anyway, I thought it was rather clever in the last episode with the remote controlled ship.

Furthermore, I think the series might be renewed if Enterprise fans are persuasive enough.

I liked the episode as well, and agree it was a cool trick. But I still think that if the series had played off the Romulan Conflict as the catalist for the series it would have been better. But thats a mute point. To fix it now they MUST continue the series and that does not look likely at this point.

Renegade 13

February 3rd, 2005, 01:13 PM

Those bastards! Enterprise was the only show worth watching on Friday nights. Gah, better stop here before the language degenerates too much...

Cheeze

February 3rd, 2005, 05:04 PM

With SG-1, Atlantis and Galactica on Fridays, I was just a bit disappointed that Enterprise had been moved to Fridays. I was going to have to tape it or watch the episode on Sunday (I think!)

While I agree that the last couple of SG-1 episodes seem unfocused, I rather like it. After the constant build-up of villains to greater heights, Baal is almost 'ordindary' and something of a let-down. The replicators make for an interesting enemy now that SG-1 may have to side with the Goauld to defeat them. But the lack of focus and intensity that the stories had is hopefully time taken to build into new storylines.

I'm just looking forward to the return of Claudia Black....and may it be when Ben Browder show up as well!!

Renegade 13

February 3rd, 2005, 05:26 PM

Everyone should go to www.upn.com (http://www.upn.com), look at the bottom-right of the page, and send UPN an unhappy message about cancelling Enterprise. If enough people do this, maybe the fans can pull off another TOS-like resurrection of the series http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

tesco samoa

February 3rd, 2005, 05:35 PM

I am glad they cancelled it.

B & B have totally ruined star trek. Let it die. And in 10 years or so start it up again set far in the future. And as far away from B & B as possible and as far away from the crap star trek has become.

Caduceus

February 3rd, 2005, 05:42 PM

I agree in that a five to ten year hiatus from the franchise (aside from books, comics, videogames) would likely be very good for the franchise.

Atrocities

February 3rd, 2005, 05:56 PM

I liked the cast of the show and alot of the episodes they have had. I dislike the B & B effect and agree that those two turds should have been given the boot a long time ago after little B weasled his way into the job.

I was pleasently surprised by the series and KNOW that it has great potential, but bad management.

Starhawk

February 3rd, 2005, 06:07 PM

TEN YEARS YIKES NO I'd be 28 dang it and I don't want to wait that long (grrraaaaar) but they said 1 or 2 years on their official statement which is bullcrap beacuse why cancel an entire series just to make a new one 2 years later?

And besides that one of the Bs is going to making "the largest and most highly budgeted star trek movie of all time" soon, let us hope he does not turn it into another Nemesis.

Those two bastards should be canned before that movie is made or they'll just screw it up.

Sivran

February 3rd, 2005, 07:22 PM

I rather liked Nemesis actually... It was refreshing to see some *** being kicked, rather than kissed, in something bearing the name of Star Trek. Sure it was a response to the all-too-true allegations of Trek wussy-ness that have been coming from fans of other sci-fis for years, but it was still a good flick.

Captain Kwok

February 3rd, 2005, 08:44 PM

I think the problem with Nemesis was that half of it was quite good and the premise interesting enough, but some poor dialogue/editing decisions really hurt the overall product. However, I'm still impressed at the battle sequence for once - at least they made an effort to match weapon hits with shield facings and related dialogue and things of that sort.

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro

February 3rd, 2005, 09:00 PM

Do you think the Sci-Fi Network would buy Enterprise? It's nice to hope for something like that.
Or maybe a new series called "Klingon Space" A series like that would of course be full of lots of action. That's why we watch isn't it. Phaser fire, interesting tactical situations, monsters, cool ships, naked twister with green orion slave girls. To hell with dramatic situations.

I'm still hoping for a mini-series based on Niven's Known Space books.

Atrocities

February 3rd, 2005, 09:33 PM

The problem with nemesis is that they did not have Frakes directing it, and some of the best scenes end up on the floor. To add that it was a dark movie, not orginally shot that way, but done so in editing, hense the poor editing award, the movie was made into a bad movie from a good one.

Also the Before Data, was a Romulan prototype design that they could not get to work right. Data fixed it, transfered his memories, and then died to save picard. Kinda like the spock thing in Trek II.

I like the last 10 minutes of Nemesis, the rest of the movie was ok, but not what I would have liked to have seen.

To date I say Inssurrection is the best of the STNG movies followed by Generation then FC.

Suicide Junkie

February 3rd, 2005, 11:55 PM

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro said:
Do you think the Sci-Fi Network would buy Enterprise? It's nice to hope for something like that.
Or maybe a new series called "Klingon Space" A series like that would of course be full of lots of action. That's why we watch isn't it. Phaser fire, interesting tactical situations, monsters, cool ships, naked twister with green orion slave girls. To hell with dramatic situations.

I'm still hoping for a mini-series based on Niven's Known Space books.

Why not go all out and make it a Klingon POV show... disruptors blazing and batleth dueling all over the place.
If it looks at you funny, shoot first and question the forensics team later.

geoschmo

February 4th, 2005, 12:12 AM

That would be awesome. Remeber the episode of TNG where Riker spent some time on the Klingon ship. Why not do something like that? A star fleet officer on an extended exchange program tour of duty aboard a Klingon vessl. I'd watch that.

Randallw

February 4th, 2005, 01:07 AM

What about the Federation Time Corp?. They could travel about history visiting times like the beginning of the federation.....oh wait http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif.

Starhawk

February 4th, 2005, 01:53 AM

THAT WOULD SUCK, I hate time travel shows.

Atrocities

February 4th, 2005, 03:39 AM

We need a series about Klingons.... Enough with these mambie pambie sissy boy federation types and their higher than thou moral values. I say to give us a good Klingon series.

Randallw

February 4th, 2005, 04:57 AM

Atrocities said:
We need a series about Klingons.... Enough with these mambie pambie sissy boy federation types and their higher than thou moral values. I say to give us a good Klingon series.

or elaborate on the Terran Empire. None of this avoiding pre-warp civilisations. It's all about conquering them when they can't fight back.

Gandalf Parker

February 4th, 2005, 11:58 AM

That makes alot of sense. After all, the Star Trek series was a perfect fit for its time. It fit the general outlook of the american TV-viewing public with just a bit of hippy preaching to improve some attitudes.

Nobody in the US wants that now. Give us the Klingon Empire. Give us the expanding Federation. Give us another Captain Kirk. "Do it right or we will come in and make you do it our way". "Yes we have a Prime Directive on the books but sometimes that just doesnt work so we bend it".
YES make it a show for OUR times.

DISCLAIMER: the above views are not my own but they were fun to type

Starhawk

February 4th, 2005, 04:37 PM

I Say screw all that! give me a series about my Icaran Empire, brutal, uncompromising, with a drive to be the supreme Government no matter the cost, an empire based on the divine creation of man conquering the heathen Xeno filth, and bringing all the so called "star nations" under the sway of the Praetor!

Anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif it would make a cool show wouldn't it?

tesco samoa

February 4th, 2005, 04:54 PM

Dictators and military conquests should not looked at with glee....

But it would make for good tv... maybe a mini series.

Down with Praetor.

Up with Consortium

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Atrocities

February 4th, 2005, 07:47 PM

They need to just hire a few of us to write a series for them.

Azselendor

February 5th, 2005, 12:46 AM

You know what, no one has given thought to what UPN will replace enterprise with....

I have a brilliant idea! A Science Fiction Fantasy Reality Show.

CNCRaymond

February 5th, 2005, 03:27 AM

One of the unofficial reasons for canceling Enterprise is that UPN is catering to a specific demographic and Enterprise is not a show that lends itself well to their target audience.

I think Enterprise is simply too expensive for UPN given its nature to go with the cheaply produced shows they now run. It might have to do with viewer demographics, but in all honesty, it more likely than not has to do with the all might dollar.

Think about it, how many shows on UPN do you watch? I can only think of one, and that is, and soon to be was, Enterprise.

After Enterprise is gone, I will have no reason to watch the UPN. I simply dislike the shows they have, as they do not appeal to me in any way. I prefer my TV entertainment to have a level of education above that of an 8th grade mentality. I also prefer my entertainment to be a bit more diverse and not so heavily focused on one demographic as to exclude all others.

So UPN can kiss my big white puffy bottom as they will not be getting any viewing ratings from this kracker eating honky master.

Aris_Sung

February 5th, 2005, 05:18 AM

GRRR...

I'll add my contempt for UPN too!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

and the shows were starting to get better!!

Randallw

February 5th, 2005, 09:06 AM

I have a question. Here we don't have such things as UPN or Scifi channel or whatever, except on cable perhaps, which I don't have. There has been some talk about Enterprise perhaps being on another channel. Is it possible that even if such a thing could happen, would UPN ban it because they consider Enterprise theirs, even though they don't want it.

Atrocities

February 5th, 2005, 09:12 AM

The series is over as of this May. Paramount as already said that it will not continue producing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif So there will be no reviving the show. Its gone.

Azselendor

February 5th, 2005, 12:06 PM

The general and prevailing mindset of hollywood is that if it doesn't make money and get new fans, then cancel it, burn the sets, and sacrifice the producers to the critics.

Actually, the show can be revived - but by a different studio if paramount can sell the rights. This happened with Stargate when Showtime tried to cancel it. Sadly, Star-Trek licensing is insanely high. The only reason why we had Season 4 is because paramount had to drop the fees to CBS & UPN so low, it was embarassing. The only way it would sell is if the frandchise totally flopped or if the next Big science fiction film makes a huge fortune. Afterall, we wouldn't have more than the Original Star Trek if it wasn't for Star Wars.

Now if anyone has hopes for reviving it, they need to secure the sets & props or atleast the designs for all of that so it can be reconstructed at a later date.

EaX

February 5th, 2005, 07:18 PM

i'm sorry to hear enterprise was cancelled, i like it, over here i'm watching the season when the Xindi are building a weapon to destroy earth i don't know if it's the last season or not, and one question what the hell is UPN?

Starhawk

February 5th, 2005, 07:50 PM

UPN= Unwhite People Network, just about every show you can hear someone going on about "Tha white man" and "Cracker, honky" so on and so forth.

Atrocities

February 5th, 2005, 09:11 PM

Actually Showtime did not own the rights to Stargate, they bought the show. MGM owned, and still does, the rights to Stargate.

If Enterprise can find a new home on another network they ya it can be revived, but the chances of that happening are slim to non-exsistant.

As for Star Wars being why we have had more trek, well that is just a myth. Series II was already in production when Star Wars came out. After Star Wars Paramount decided to for go the new series in favor of a motion picture. Hense the title Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

The sets had already been built and the scripts written for Series II by the time Star Wars hit the screens.

Captain Kwok

February 5th, 2005, 09:42 PM

They should have made Enterprise as a syndicated series rather than a network one. It would have gotten more favourable time slots and a better overall audience...

narf poit chez BOOM

February 5th, 2005, 10:19 PM

They should have stopped frankenstiening the continueity.

Atrocities

February 5th, 2005, 11:13 PM

Captain Kwok said:
They should have made Enterprise as a syndicated series rather than a network one. It would have gotten more favourable time slots and a better overall audience...

The question is why don't they do that now?

Nodachi

February 5th, 2005, 11:47 PM

Probably because they feel they don't need to go the syndication route anymore since they have thier own network.

Lord Kodos

February 6th, 2005, 11:10 AM

There has been talk of a series focusing on the exploits of a Klingon warship.

I ask why not a series focusingon Vulcans! No one would have ANY emotions, whatsoever! It would be hilarious!

But all joking aside, I think a show about the Romulans would be better then the Klingons. I just like the Romulans, not sure why.

-Kodos Out

Arkcon

February 6th, 2005, 02:40 PM

There's no shortage of new concepts for the next series...

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=1337591&thread_type=voteresults

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

// No HTML so you all know where you're going. Fark.com is a satire website, adverts not safe for the sensitive.

Captain Kwok

February 6th, 2005, 10:53 PM

I just watched the latest episode of Enterprise, "United", and was quite caught up in the ep. Ugh, if only these types of stories persisted earlier in the series!

CNCRaymond

February 6th, 2005, 11:49 PM

I agree. To bad the producers were rudderless when they started the series. If they had a clear concept for an on going story line, i.e. used the suggestions of many a good fan, then the series would have been a lot more resilient to UPN's anti-white viewer tactics and would have survived and most likely thrived. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

ZeroAdunn

February 7th, 2005, 12:23 AM

Yah baby, Gwar Trek!

TerranC

February 7th, 2005, 12:23 AM

CNCRaymond said:
UPN's anti-white viewer tactics

I'm sorry to take this thread off-topic but anti-white viewer tactics? What do you mean by that?

Randallw

February 7th, 2005, 12:35 AM

There was talk, earlier,that UPN is only interested in appealing to black people, as shown by their plethora of african american programming. The idea was that an intellectual show mostly filled with white people was of no appeal to UPN's target audience, thus the lax in ratings.

Captain Kwok

February 7th, 2005, 01:12 AM

Come on guys, it's got nothing to do at all with racial motivations. It's an expensive show to make and when the ratings weren't there initially - it got moved to a bad Friday night timeslot and add to that a massive split in the trek community about the series was enough to finish it off. To suggest otherwise is silly.

Atrocities

February 7th, 2005, 03:27 AM

I tend to agree with CK about this. I think that the networks intended demographic simply turned off to many people as there was simply not enough programing that appealed to all audiances. In tuning out UPN, shows such as Enterprise could no longer draw in the revenue needed to keep themselves afloat.

Back in the early 90's Arseno Hall ran into the same problem. His show was revolutionary and a lot of fun to watch but when it began to cater more toward one specific audience, his rating tanked and the show went off the air.

Enterprise faced many hurtles as CK pointed out and it was a combination of all of these factors, UPN's targeted demographic simply was not interested in the show, and the excluded demographic would only tune in to watch Enterprise, and of that group there was a huge split so fewer and fewer would watch out of frustration over the shows pandering disregard for establish Trek history. (Sad as the show was actually very good and did not, for the most part, step on any toes.)

Oh well, what can you do except accept it?

Renegade 13

February 7th, 2005, 03:29 AM

Well, we could all go marching down to UPN headquarters and demand they re-instate the show... And then to show our convictions we can fire a few shots across their bow...er...in front of their CEO's window http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Or we could be less fanatical, and just accept that which we can not change.

Atrocities

February 7th, 2005, 08:30 AM

God I am so fricking depressed over this. Just when the series was actually beginning to get interesting they go and cancel it. WTF? I mean W T F? are they doing this for?

The order to strike the sets in stage 8 and 9 was given and nearly 27 years of history is being broken into small peaces bound for the LA dump. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

When the revolution comes, my small list of must kills, just grew to include the names of those responsible for this blood vengeance-causing act.

There is some microscopic talk, mostly pathetic fan based rumors that there might be a movie based off of Enterprise dealing with the Romulan Conflict, but that is as likely to happen as my flying to the moon on a tooth pick.

It really just pains me to no end to think that we are witnessing the end of an era. Nearly 20 years of none stop star trek is coming to a close and I find myself weeping like an old women at the thought that I may never again see a new episode featuring the bridges of star trek ships. I am not ashamed to admit this and I know that I am not alone in my heartsick pain. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

No good will come of this, and that you can bank on. I sincerely hope that UPN goes belly up and that I at least live long enough to see it happen so I can gloat with the rest of the disenfranchised Star Trek fans.

I hope that the executives over at Paramount that made the call to can Enterprise suffer a horrible and painful death after living years in poverty and shame. They have no honor and they are worse than a Breen back stabber! They are lower than Targ s*** and I would not give them the gnawed on dog bones of my meal if they were starving to death and begging me.

They are Cardassian Vole fodder in my book and deserve to be spaced over a black hole!

Think about all those props, sets, costumes, etc just going to be tossed, auctioned off on EBay, or stored away until they are either turn to dust or are s*** canned by some lowly underling clueless dumb f*** like the SOB who through away the CD with all of the original B5 models on it over at Warner bros.

I tell you if I had Bill Gates $$ I would find a way to keep that show on the air if I had to pay the 1.5 million it cost per episode to do so. I mean where have we gone that brought us here? One of the few shows on TV that sci-fi fans enjoyed watching and its cut off at the knees at four years old.

Like I said, it should be classified as a crime and those responsible brought to justice. They should be hanged from a nearest light post with a sign around their punk arses that read "I Cancelled Star Trek." They should serve as a warning to the next ten generations of Paramount executives that we the fans will not tolerate such things!

God help me I don't know what I am going to do without my weekly fix of Enterprise. Hell I have been getting a weekly fix of Star Trek since I was 17 years old, well long before that with TOS but that does not count as it was cancelled before I was born. Since October of 87, say the year or so after voyager ended to the start of Enterprise, I have awaited with much anticipation my weekly fix of Star Trek.

Granted I would have loved to seen Voyager cancelled, but I was often told that any Star Trek is better than no Star Trek. And you know what, they were right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

We are at the predispose of a new dark age my friends. One that bares no kindness in its empty stare back at us. Its cold breath chills me to my core and sends my soul cowering in fear. What a dark day as befallen us.

I HATE YOU UPN!

Atrocities

February 7th, 2005, 08:43 AM

Letter Campaign:

Mr. Leslie Moonves
Co-President, Co-Chief Operating Officer
Viacom International, Inc.
c/o CBS Television City
7800 Beverly Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90036-2112

Ms. Dawn Tarnofsky-Ostroff
President
United Paramount Network
11800 Wilshire Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90025

President Tom Freston
Viacom International
1515 Broadway
New York, NY
10036 U.S.A.

Mr. Brad Grey
Chief Executive
Paramount Studios
5555 Melrose Avenue
Hollywood, CA 90038

Chairman Sumner Redstone
Viacom International, Inc.
1515 Broadway
New York, NY
10036-5794 U.S.A.

http://saveenterprise.com/campaign2005/lettercampaign.htm<br />

narf poit chez BOOM

February 7th, 2005, 08:55 AM

Maybe, given a few years to think it over, they can come up with something new.

AT, it isn't personal. If the shows not making money, the company goes under. All those people have to eat.

I really hope the're not tearing up all those sets. Foolish decision. Could probably get double or more there value from collectors. I won't comment on the artistic and historical value, because then *I* might get angry.

Atrocities

February 7th, 2005, 09:04 AM

The choice to end the series was blamed on poor ratings but that is turning out to be a load of horse s*** and that is what realy is p***ing me off. They canned the series because, like so many others have posted, it no longer fits into the UPN's budge which is gear for the low end, enexpensive, and cheaply produced sit-com market.

Simply put, UPN is a low rent network and Enterprise was like the most expensive thing they owned, and instead of hocking or selling it, they broke it up into tiny little peaces and dumped it out the 10 story window of their getto.

Shows like Jag and B5 were canned by their first networks but picked up by other networks. UPN and ViaCom / Paramount decided that marketing Enterprise to another network would not work and therefore have not tried to do so. They want Enterprise shut down.

What really hurts is what they are doing to the sets. You should get angry Narf. You have to know that the bean counting yuppies down there could careless about the historical significance of what they have. They will sell it off on Ebay, trash can it, store it until it turns to dust then trash can it, or simply allow whats left to be disposed of by any means possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Hell they are going to rename the Gene Roddenburry building too and that is just sad. Just fricking completely destroughtingly sad.

I really should stop reading the Star Trek and other forums. They are just upsetting me.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 7th, 2005, 09:14 AM

I think I need to rent some old original series.

geoschmo

February 7th, 2005, 10:33 AM

Goodness AT. So glum. You must be too young to remember the dark ages 20 years ago before TNG hit the air. Having no Trek show on the air is tough, but you'll get through it. And on the bright side, you've got 5 times as much material to work with in reruns, and you've got VCR's and DVD's, which weren't really common back then. Not to mention several other decent Sci-fi shows on the air. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Starhawk

February 7th, 2005, 01:57 PM

Yeah I seriously am feeling the pain, I mean they are not just cancelling the show but are destroying the sets, tearing down history and erasing Gene Rodenberry's legacy, it's just heart wrenching, and I want all those jerks linched.

geoschmo

February 7th, 2005, 02:27 PM

To be honest though there really is no reason to keep the sets. They are mostly wood and paper and paint. Those things aren't exactly built to be durable. They are built to look a certain way on film. Sets get damaged and rebuilt all the time during filming precisely because they are so fragile. Storing them would be difficult and unnecesary. And they would look like crap after a while in storage anyway and wouldn't be usable for anything. They can be recreated from photographic records which can be stored much more easily and permanently. They are doing just that this season in the episode about the Terran Empire. They rebuilt the Constitution class (TOS Enterprise was a constitution class) bridge of the U.S.S Defiant from the TOS. From the photos I've seen it looks great. Just like the original.

Starhawk

February 7th, 2005, 03:52 PM

Captain Kwok said:
Come on guys, it's got nothing to do at all with racial motivations. It's an expensive show to make and when the ratings weren't there initially - it got moved to a bad Friday night timeslot and add to that a massive split in the trek community about the series was enough to finish it off. To suggest otherwise is silly.

Well CK I don't know if you've watched UPN in it's early days or even in recent years except for ENT but I can certainly understand where the "anti-white" feeling is coming from, UPN said in it's early days that they saught to be a second BET (Black EntertainmentTelevision for those who are unfamiliar with the channel) and 90% of their shows would have been considered racist if it had been white folks talking about black folks, the way these black folks were talking about white people. They had all black casts except for the "inept or goofy stupid" white guy or girl. And they had humor barely above an 8th grade education.

Even these days the vast majority of UPNs shows are casted either entirely or mostly of African American persons, granted they have eased up on their "The White Devil" style talk but their views that "white folks are boring dorks" is still a prominant feature of several shows. They've also made some of their shows "smarter" now a days.

Their targeted demograph is clearly not white people, UPNs only shows with prominant white casts are lucky to survive 1 or 2 seasons so in a way we are lucky ENT lasted 4 because UPN has shown a remarkable lack of patience when it comes to giving "Diversified" shows a chance.

And UPN has stated that they are "unoficially" not happy with the demograph of enterprise, which imho sounds like they are not happy with the fact that the bulk of the cast is as follows:

Scott Bakula: White (or should I say European American these days?)
Conner Trinner: White
Dominic Keating: White
Anthony Montgomery: African American
Linda Park: Korean American
Jolene Blalock: Mixed Race
John Billingsly: White

Notice the issue by UPN's "Targeted Demograph"?

Captain Kwok

February 7th, 2005, 05:01 PM

The reason why you've seen the newer networks like UPN and the WB feature more urban comedies etc., is because that is an under-represented market in the U.S. and it offers a better chance for them to pick up market share - you could easily make the opposite "racial" claim of what you are saying with the big networks like NBC or CBS that they do the exact opposite with their "all-white" shows.

The failure of Enterprise has nothing to do with what you are saying. If you are to blame UPN, it's for poor series promotion and direction. Also be sure to blame fellow trekkies too, of which much damage was done.

EvilGenius4ABetterTomorro

February 7th, 2005, 05:43 PM

All you can really hope for is another network to pick it up. Or maybe Fox will start another series like with Klingons or Orions Pirates or something of that nature. I've always felt glum when my favorite shows were cancelled. It all started with U.F.O. then Space 1999, Buck Rogers, Logans Run (yeah, I liked it). It happens, then something good comes around again. When SG-1 goes though I expect to check into the Betty Ford Clinic. I think your also going to see more Sci-Fi mini series instead of regualr series. Still hoping of "Ring World".

Starhawk

February 7th, 2005, 06:48 PM

Captain Kwok said:
The reason why you've seen the newer networks like UPN and the WB feature more urban comedies etc., is because that is an under-represented market in the U.S. and it offers a better chance for them to pick up market share - you could easily make the opposite "racial" claim of what you are saying with the big networks like NBC or CBS that they do the exact opposite with their "all-white" shows.

The failure of Enterprise has nothing to do with what you are saying. If you are to blame UPN, it's for poor series promotion and direction. Also be sure to blame fellow trekkies too, of which much damage was done.

I said I could understand where their views on the fact UPN is rather racially singular being partially responsible for ENT downfall, it really is a factor, though not the only one.

Azselendor

February 7th, 2005, 08:24 PM

I'm betting Spike and SciFi start a bidding war for syndication rights.

What got me pissed was when UPN said "We bid Enterprise a warm goodbye..."
That sounds a bit like "Good bye, good riddens, now get the hell out before we loose the dogs!"

I think a lot what hurt this series too was advertising, and program blocking. UPN didn't do half the work needed to make good program blocks like other networks. You got one sci-fi show surrounded by ethnic comedies and repeative-situation-sitcoms on UPN. Honestly, how many people can name UPN's daily lineup from memory? How many can do the same for Fox or WB?

Then advertising. I think I heard about 300 Sound-FX driven ads for Enterprise on the radio (most likely they just took the audio track from the TV ads instead of making real radio ads) and maybe 3 broadcast Ads and maybe 5 print ads. That would be like advertising a space empires to a group of woodsmen and ignoreing the sci-fi gaming community.

Enterprise is one of those productions that are plagued from the first day or pre-production. Like the original Battlestar Galactica or any other series that held promise and then exploded in everyone's collective faces.

Captain Kwok

February 7th, 2005, 08:48 PM

Some simple facts:
$1.6 million per episode
Currently 3 million viewership, down from 10-12 million first season
Bad timeslot, against shows of same genre etc, dividing "tune-in" audience
Poor advertising
Divisions in the fan base

Even a really good 4th season couldn't save this ship.

Atrocities

February 7th, 2005, 09:14 PM

Kwok is of coure 100% correct in his post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif It all boils down to cold hard cash.

geoschmo

February 7th, 2005, 09:36 PM

This is the curse of TV sci-fi from the old days of Trek TOS and the original Battlesta Galactica. The need for fancy sets, makeup and special effects makes them way more expensive then the typical hour drama. The audience that is interested in sci-fi in any form is a fraction of the overall TV viewing audience. Revenue is based on ratings, but even decent ratings that would mean renewal for a sitcom or a character driven drama aren't good enough for a show with a scifi budget. Higher costs and lower potential for profits, it's really a wonder that any sci-fi show makes it.

This is one of the reasons Stargate has lasted as long as it has. Mostly planetary settings and almost all the aliens are humans too. Atlantis is a big depature from that formula, but Stargate has been around long enough now to have established a solid fan base. Even so I suspect the new series is not nearly as profitable as the original.

I am hopeful that as the computer technology advances and comes down in price, we can break out of this cycle and some sci-fi series that don't get spectacular ratings right off the bat can last long enough to develop an audience. I'd like to see some variety too. How about a sci-fi comedy series? I think there's an audience for it, if you could keep the costs down.

Suicide Junkie

February 7th, 2005, 10:16 PM

So, if we make a show based on SE5 combat replays and voiceovers, we should be rolling in profitability...

geoschmo

February 7th, 2005, 11:07 PM

Suicide Junkie said:
So, if we make a show based on SE5 combat replays and voiceovers, we should be rolling in profitability...

Well, that would cetainly keep costs down. But to be profitable you still have to have some revenues. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Although, it might be fun to make a quicktime sci-fi movie like that. We could interlace scenes of starfury with overhead views from the Se4 combat replay. And for dialog you could make up some chesey animation using the race pics. I'll start on the storyboards for "Rise of the Rhemoraz Society". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Atrocities

February 8th, 2005, 01:00 AM

Suicide Junkie said:
So, if we make a show based on SE5 combat replays and voiceovers, we should be rolling in profitability...

The idea that we could export the combat in an AVI format so we could edit it would be a must have option for SEV. Included are multiple angles and such. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

We could make our own mini-series. The Combat Wars!

Azselendor

February 8th, 2005, 01:53 AM

And Reality shows will never end....

Suicide Junkie

February 8th, 2005, 02:16 AM

Klvino [ORB] said:
And Reality shows will never end....

This week! Atrocities, Geo, Fyron and SJ compete to make the biggest and best combat sequence using nothing but PPBs and Meson Blasters! The winner gains a crucial immunity as we get down to the wire, and will be critical for deciding who gets voted off the PBW server during saturday's 2-hour special!

narf poit chez BOOM

February 8th, 2005, 02:18 AM

In addition, as a random hazard, an eight-foot mouse throwing tactical nuclear grenades!

Renegade 13

February 8th, 2005, 03:06 AM

And for the intermission between hours, we're pleased to feature Renegade 13 chasing said mouse around with a very pointy pitchfork!

Jack Simth

February 8th, 2005, 03:10 AM

geoschmo said:
I am hopeful that as the computer technology advances and comes down in price, we can break out of this cycle and some sci-fi series that don't get spectacular ratings right off the bat can last long enough to develop an audience. I'd like to see some variety too. How about a sci-fi comedy series? I think there's an audience for it, if you could keep the costs down.

It isn't the computers that are the problem - it's the artists that use the computers. A recent desktop, purchased for $2000 US, has all the processing power and RAM needed to do some very high-quality rendering in a reasonable period of time (medium-quality renderings in real time). If one doesn't do it for you, get 10 or 100, and link them together in a beowolf cluster; even purchasing them fresh for EVERY EPISODE, you won't hit even 1/4 the per episode budget for Enterprise listed earlier. However, consider: of those who play SEIV, how many can produce quality, rendered shipsets from scratch? Three? Four? How long does it take them to make one? How long would it take them to make one that would allow you to zoom in to any part of the ship's hull to the point where it is STILL realistic and has good lighting, shadowing, and reflection effects off the nuts & bolts? Now consider that every episode where they show damage has to have that section completely redesigned to show the internals and damaged components, and every time they show damage being dealt they need to make several stages of the damage in the same way, and tell the machine how to transition between, for each instance of damage-dealing. It isn't the machine time that's the problem - it's the time of the artists involved that run the machines.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 8th, 2005, 03:31 AM

Which is why we need a computer with the type of capability of a ST holodeck.

See Renegade 13 realise his 'pitchfork' is actually four pythons! See R13 get rushed to the hospital! Thrills! Chills! And at the end, the winner gets ten million dollar bills!

Renegade 13

February 8th, 2005, 03:39 AM

Oooo ah ah, that stings! Good thing I have a natural resistance to venom. See R13 make a miraculous recovery, and take his horrible revenge upon the 8 foot tall mouse known as Narf! Who will have the strength, the grit, the determination to win this final round! Tune in tomorrow to find out, on channel....wait, this is getting a little too representative of reality tv. Ick.

Jack Simth

February 8th, 2005, 04:13 AM

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Which is why we need a computer with the type of capability of a ST holodeck.

There are (at least) two major technical problems and two social problems with that:
1) A programming problem - you can convince a computer to take a library object, run some specified portion of it's vertices and surfaces through an algorythm, and render the result, but the variety of point-manipulation algorythms needed, and the methods of specifying what segment, what manipulation, and what variables in a reasonably intuitive fasion would take ages to program, as ALL of that must come from at least one very intelligent human mind (probably hundreds or thousands).
2) A library problem - sure, the holodec can build highly detailed re-creations of scenes - but, of necessity, it's pulling things out of a library somewhere - the user tells the computer he wants a nature scene, and the computer picks one from a library, or generates one based on a template and componentes from a library (a component may, in turn, be a template with components pulled by some algorythm out of a library - recursive to whatever finite degree is desired) - but fundamentally, it's pulling stuff out of a truly enormous (and incredibly well-indexed) object library. This library must be built before a Star Treck Holodeck ease rendering system can be implemented.
3) A copyright problem - you can take a chunk of data, and manipulate it through some algorythm, but unless you have an agreement with the owner of the original data chunk specifying otherwise, you can't legally distribut the altered work willy-nilly. So, even after you have dealt with 1 and 2, you have a big legal mess to deal with before you can use the easy system in an mass-media fashion.
4) A repetition issue - Have you ever noticed how games of the same basic type from the same company tend to have the same basic feel to their appearence? That's mainly because the game companies tends to re-use their engines; it's even common for a company to liscense it's engine to other companies - so you will sometimes see many games of the same nature from different companies that have the same feel to their appearence. If you don't completely replace the library (step 2) and algorytms (step 1) fairly often, the easy-made shows built from the engine will start to have a repetitive look to them, and your audience will become tired of it, eventually shunning any show made with the easy-create engine and library. A very, VERY big library of algorythms and objects, well-used random factors and style/genre variables will alleviate the problem, but will ultimately just delay the point at which they all start looking alike. With the number of times the holodec is featured in ST, this isn't an issue. With the number of times it would be used to make many different rendered components for shows, it would be - in short order (a few years), most probably. For something used to entertain the crew on a long voyage, this isn't an issue, as THEY are the creators, and can change things to suit their individual preferences, puttting as much work in as needful to make things match; for something used to produce mass entertainment, this is a very big issue.

Atrocities

February 8th, 2005, 06:18 AM

I make bike videos all the time. The resources needed to store that footage digitally is astounding. To render a four minute video takes about 20 minutes. To render a video without lock ups or fall out is a roll of the dice with XP and or any windows based PC.

Jack Simth

February 8th, 2005, 06:46 AM

1)
5->1 rendering time is perfectly acceptable for 45 minutes of professional footage for a 13 episode season one season per year; use low-quality renderings for testing, then let the final run overnight. If it is an issue, you can speed things up by using more computers on a high-quality LAN in a Beowolf cluster (I had a class on it in college - fun stuff - whole new ways to lock up a machine). Run a Linux-based system to help prevent lockups.

2)
I've never rendered video, but I record TV shows on my PC; mpeg-4 Fast Motion works wonders for the file size - at 15 frames/sec, 2700 kbits/second, 48 kh stereo sound, I get an hour long show stored in about a gigabyte, with little danger of errors crashing the capture, and have rather good image quality - and I've only got a little PIII with 128 MB of RAM running Lose98. A little compression can do wonders.
And, ya know, with 200 GB hard drives being fairly common nowadys in the $2000 machine price range, space isn't an issue. If you arrange a filing system that can handle it, it doesn't matter that you burn through 4 GB in 5 minutes (I did this a few times when recording TV on my computer - I had the settings WAY TOO HIGH) - a full 60 minute episode is only 12 5-minute blocks; with the above ratio, that's 48 GB - you can store 4 of those on a 200 GB hard drive, available for purchase at most computer stores.

Yeah, the recourse requirements for video can get pretty high - but modern equipment can get a lot higher fairly readily anymore.

Sivran

February 8th, 2005, 07:04 AM

Youch, 1 gig for only an hour? Chop a couple hundred meg off it with Xvid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Atrocities

February 8th, 2005, 07:15 AM

When I render video it must be absolute quality. Thats 30 frames a second, hi defination. The quality must be there in order for preserve the moment and or if I ever decide to air or cable cast the videos. Reality shows are based upon real life and I have 80 plus hours of hard core dirt bike / quad action. Not to mention all the gun work and such my father has performed on video. Memories worth saving in high quality. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

gregebowman

February 8th, 2005, 08:56 AM

Well, to back to the original topic of this thread, I'm getting my black armband out and wearing it. Just heard the news the other day that Enterprise has been cancelled. I knew that when they moved it to Friday nights, it was the kiss of death for the show. At least on Wed. nights I had the chance to watch it. but I'm hardly ever home on Friday nights, and I don't have Tivo (or the satellite equivalent). So I'm ticked off at UPN also. there probably won't be another show, especially if they've stopped making movies.

geoschmo

February 8th, 2005, 08:58 AM

Jack Simth said:
It isn't the machine time that's the problem - it's the time of the artists involved that run the machines.

I am aware of this. When I spoke of technology advances I was refering to software as well as hardware. When computers first started getting into business, database systems were only available to the big companaies that could afford to hire programmers or pay third parties to administer them. Now my dentists office can buy an off the shelf program like Access, or something else specifically tailored to the medical field, and the billing person can maintain it. There's no reason to think image technology won't have a similer progression in time. I can imagine 50 years from now the director could input some basic parameters himself and the computer would do the hard work of turning it into the shot he's got in his minds eye. Then all you need is some actors speaking lines in front of a green screen, or maybe not even that. At some point we'll be to where we don't even need actors. That's fantasy today, but it's coming. When the technology advances to where the computer can interface with your typical non-artist type person, the cost will come down precipitously.

Starhawk

February 10th, 2005, 08:27 PM

A message from UPN to me after I wrote them:

Hello,

Thank you for writing to UPN. The STAR TREK legacy has spanned nearly four decades and has spawned five television series. Ten years ago, STAR TREK: VOYAGER was instrumental in helping launch UPN.

The latest incarnation, STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE, has reached the culmination of its journey. This painstaking decision came after it was recognized that despite having many loyal fans like you, the audience for the show was declining steadily. Therefore, ENTERPRISE is set to decommission and will be given a grand send-off on Friday, May 13th at 8 PM ET/PT on UPN.

This does not mean that STAR TREK is gone forever. Paramount, the studio that produced all five television series and ten feature films, is looking forward to the next chapter of the STAR TREK saga.

We know that this information may not make you feel any better but we want you to know how much we appreciate your input and we sincerely hope that you will continue to share your thoughts with us in the future.

Cordially,
UPN

Atrocities

February 10th, 2005, 09:28 PM

Oh for the love of God. I would say they just treid to blow smoke up your arse Starhawk. Simply put UPN could not rise up the class of viewer that Enterprise brought in, and more and more educated views were turned off my the second grade programing that they were running. You never give up your flag ship series unless your so frickin broke, like UPN.

This is like firing a journeyman worker and replacing him with six mexicans. (No offense)

Renegade 13

February 10th, 2005, 10:32 PM

Lol Alarikf, I just got the EXACT same message from UPN. Couldn't even take the time to look at anything other than the fact it was about Enterprise.

Captain Kwok

February 10th, 2005, 10:33 PM

Of course you guys are going to get the same form letter. You think they're going to type all those annoyed fans individual letters? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Atrocities

February 10th, 2005, 10:37 PM

Captain Kwok said:
Of course you guys are going to get the same form letter. You think there going to type all those annoyed fans individual letters? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

One size fits all..... They must thing we are all just some yahoo's who dress up and go to conventions. Little do they realize that we are far more than this.... We are the conventions!

To bad you cannot report the email as spam. After all that is what is seems to be.

AMF

February 10th, 2005, 10:46 PM

Renegade 13 said:
Lol Alarikf, I just got the EXACT same message from UPN. Couldn't even take the time to look at anything other than the fact it was about Enterprise.

Yeah, I got the exact same message. But, uh, how did you know that? I didn't mention it here until now... weird man. reading my mind?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Starhawk

February 11th, 2005, 01:31 AM

You know what's bad I just realized my title makes me sound like a teenage girl from the 70s "Like Totally, OH MY GAAAWD" lol

Renegade 13

February 11th, 2005, 04:08 AM

alarikf said:

Renegade 13 said:
Lol Alarikf, I just got the EXACT same message from UPN. Couldn't even take the time to look at anything other than the fact it was about Enterprise.

Yeah, I got the exact same message. But, uh, how did you know that? I didn't mention it here until now... weird man. reading my mind?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hehe, oops. Guess I should have said Starhawk, not Alarikf http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But yes, I was reading your mind. That's a much more interesting explanation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

tesco samoa

February 11th, 2005, 09:39 AM

AT maybe Enterprise was not a good show http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And it could not bring in the viewers. Just about every trek person I know hates it and its rehashed stories.

tesco samoa

February 11th, 2005, 09:53 AM

Also the premise of each story (also the series) is so generalized that it is competely worthless. Conflicts and the inner conflicts of the characters were based on sterotypes. Which did not add depth to the characters and really showed how cookie cutter the characters were when faced with overcoming the weekly static conflict.

I think that the Star Trek Fans have evolved , unfortantly the producers of the show have not and hoped that we would tread down familiar paths of all the previous series not realizing that they were worn out.

i am glad it is done.

Iron Giant

February 11th, 2005, 01:09 PM

Star Trek AND Star Wars BOTH ending in May 2005??

Its the SciFi Apocolypse!!!!!

TEN YEARS YIKES NO I'd be 28 dang it and I don't want to wait that long (grrraaaaar)

HA! Try waiting 20 years for the end of a story. I saw Star Wars 20 times back in 1977.... I'll be in line at midnight to see the story "end" on May 19, 2005. The last 2 movies have not been as good as the original, imho, but then, Enterprise has not had 1/2 the draw for me as TNG too.

And I just CANT get into the only other SciFi show in town: Stargate. Can't stand that show, Battlestar Galactica is soft core porn (fine, if thats what you want, but I really wanted a Science Fiction show, myself...) and Enteprise is ending (its not that good anyway...).

Not a good time to be a SciFi fan, guess its time to go back to reading SciFi...

Starhawk

February 11th, 2005, 03:24 PM

Oh you heathen how darest thou knocketh stargate! BURN AT THE STAKE!!!!!!

And BSG is actually a good series I don't know where yoru getting the porn part from lol.....only seen one ep eh?

Atrocities

February 11th, 2005, 08:35 PM

Any one who knocks Stargate is to be hung from the nearest tree with a sign around their stretched necks that reads: "Anti Stargate member"

BSG is surprisingly good. I have to admit it, the shows just kept getting better. The ending episode was especially good with a sudden ending that even surprised the hell out of me. And that does not happen very often. (The ending of the Sixth Sense was the last thing that surprised me.)

Aris_Sung

February 12th, 2005, 12:22 AM

There are people who don't like Stargate?!?!
To those people, I say:
Jaffa, kree! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I think Stargate is one of the best sci-fi shows around. It's got a good mix of science fiction, comedy, and human drama.
Same goes for BSG. (well, maybe not so much of the comedy. of course, i've only seen up to the episode where Starbuck goes missing)It tells a real good human drama.

Randallw

February 12th, 2005, 12:33 AM

Fear naught the end of Star Wars movies. There is still the TV show coming*.

*Disclaimer: This is not a joke, it is real as far as i know.

Atrocities

February 12th, 2005, 02:06 AM

Based on the success of the KOTOR games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Should be interesting. I also read many years ago that they want to do a series on the post ROTJ era. Which will they do if they do one. Randallw the rumors are very very very old. It would be nice, I guess.

Aris_Sung

February 12th, 2005, 02:10 AM

Is it going to be an animated show?

Set when? After clone wars?

Atrocities

February 12th, 2005, 02:25 AM

Scott Bakula: Well, I'm disappointed, and everyone involved with the show is disappointed. Obviously we're all very emotionally attached to the show and we're all having a great time making the show. So you would like that kind of a situation to continue.

Unfortunately we don't fit into UPN's business plan and really haven't for the last two and a half years. So that's a situation that's out of our control and ultimately has no reflection on our show or the quality of our show. Or the commmitment of all of our fans.

It's hard not to take it personally, but in the end we got one more season than UPN wanted to give us, thanks to Garry Hart [President, Paramount Television Production], so we feel lucky about that.

Proof positive about UPN's dogma. They are totally focused in one direction, low rent, and well Star Trek was simply too pricy.

God I Hat UPN.

Aris_Sung

February 12th, 2005, 02:31 AM

After reading Scott Bakula's statement, I agree with you Atrocities.
Now, that it's getting rid of Enterprise, I guess UPN really is now a Useless Programming Network.

Atrocities

February 12th, 2005, 02:39 AM

From the chat with Scott Bakula Link (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/community/chat/archive/transcript/9564.html)

Michiel: Is there anything we can do to save Star Trek: Enterprise from ending?

SB: I don't have a clear answer for that. Obviously we want everyone to tune in and watch the last shows because we're extremely proud of them and we're anxious to share them with the fans. It would be a disappointment if there was a dropoff in viewership because of the cancellation. But the reality is, as I see it, we're a little bit like a ship in a storm with no safe harbor. There really are no interested executives left at Paramount or UPN or CBS who would be willing to fight for the show. Everyone at Paramount who had history with the franchise is gone. So I wouldn't even know who to tell you to complain to, because there's not anyone who really is interested. We've fallen between the cracks in the changing of the guard.

I can not say it enough.. WTF happened? Yuppie punk dumbasses have been given the reigns of a franchise twice thir average age and they are pissing it away for fear factor and Survivor reality shows. I am sickened to my core. So this is how it ends. The mighty Star Trek franchised ended because the no one is left to stop it from slipping through the cracks. This is what I would call a nitemare.

Musings:
God am I dead? Have I slipped from life into this purgatory of hell where everything seems wrong. A warped anti-reality where ones worst fears are realized? God what has happened to my universe?

narf poit chez BOOM

February 12th, 2005, 03:20 AM

Well, I'm not God, but I think I can safely say that there's good in anything.

Better the series be dead than in the hands of those who don't care about it.

Atrocities

February 12th, 2005, 03:48 AM

Good point there Narf. But I cannot help but think about JAG and how well that turned out for them.

Like he said, most of the new bread are focused on reality tv to take notice of the jewels that they do have. I never thought I would see the day when CBS and UPN were considered the same.

Aris_Sung

February 12th, 2005, 06:00 PM

Although, one good thing is that Enterprise is now in syndication. So we can all watch the previous episodes and forget all our gripes...for a little while.
That and Enterprise is coming out on DVD for those who have money to buy it.

Randallw

February 12th, 2005, 09:26 PM

Syndication huh, They've had 98 episodes haven't they?. I saw an episode of Monk which said they get syndication after 100 episodes.

Captain Kwok

February 12th, 2005, 09:46 PM

Syndication can occur after any number of episodes. It's the series owners that decide.

Atrocities

February 12th, 2005, 11:38 PM

There is hope that the syndication over the off season will generate some interest in the show and hopefully an advocate can be found for the series at CBS/UPN and the show will be picked back up. However they are striking the sets in a few weeks so don't hold your breath.

Randallw

February 13th, 2005, 04:57 AM

I just had a terrible thought. It has been expressed here what sort of programming UPN shows and why Enterprise didn't fit in, also the standard letter they sent everyone says they hope for a new chapter. I suddenly thought in the car that it might be like this

Star Trekkaz: Survivaz
Every week the Fedarashun Starship Martin Luther King (registration, MalcolmX:01) explorez the galaxy for new kinds of Bruthaz. Which Away Team will find the most aliens, and which crew member will be voted off and transported off the ship. First Star Trek series to do away with technobabble and use language appropriate for the audience.

geoschmo

February 13th, 2005, 12:44 PM

I don't have a problem with an open and honest discussion of race and all, but this last post I find a bit offensive. If more of the same is coming I will have no problem at all putting on my moderator hat and locking this thread down.

EDIT: Ok, I think perhaps I may have been a bit harsh here. I do believe your intent was to be humorous and not offensive. I think though that it was just a little over the line. It's a difficult call to make sometimes, and sometimes I err on the side of caution. I'm not trying to be "politcally correct" or anything, but I think sometimes we can go too far in just trying to be funny.

Randallw

February 13th, 2005, 09:47 PM

I humbly apologise. I meant to write a disclaimer that I meant no disrespect, but decided that was being too cautious. I shall keep in mind to be careful in future.

Atrocities

February 14th, 2005, 01:34 AM

I found it to be no more offensive than what you might see on MADD tv or SNL. ROFLMAO. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (People need to step back and stop being so offended by everything. When they went after the cartoon network over Tunenomi as being heartless and offensive, despite the fact that the CTN has called its programing Tunenomi for years now, I lost all respect for the sensative - politically correct - winners of America.

Randallw, your comments are fine. If any one takes offense to them then they simply need to step back and watch some MADD TV or SNL. Seriously.

EDIT: I did not see Geo's post so please do not think that my post was directed at him. It was not. I apologize if any may have thought this. Geoschmo is right that some people will not see the humor and such. I pray that they do, but hey lets face it, some folks just don't want to see the humor unless its a joke about whitey eating Krackers and Watching Dukes of Hazard while fixen on their broke down pick up truck in the front yard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Then its ok to make fun.